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In this inspiring episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen are joined by Jeff and Deana, a couple who share their journey of living intentionally through marriage, parenting, and now transitioning into retirement. They discuss the importance of staying present, investing in relationships, and embracing each day with intention. Jeff and Deana elaborate on their personal methods for being present, including engaging in activities that fill their cup, practicing mindfulness...
In this inspiring episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen are joined by Jeff and Deana, a couple who share their journey of living intentionally through marriage, parenting, and now transitioning into retirement. They discuss the importance of staying present, investing in relationships, and embracing each day with intention. Jeff and Deana elaborate on their personal methods for being present, including engaging in activities that fill their cup, practicing mindfulness, and learning how to communicate and navigate differences effectively within their relationship. Additionally, they touch on the challenges and strategies in managing finances as a couple. Their story is a testament to the power of intentionality in shaping a fulfilling retired life, offering valuable insights for anyone nearing retirement, reevaluating priorities, or seeking inspiration for living a more deliberate and meaningful life.
Learn More
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffvandenhoek1/
Website: https://intentionality.today/
Real Retirement Video Podcast: Real Retirement - YouTube
Welcome to "Real Retirement," a groundbreaking podcast where your hosts, Yasmin Nguyen and Kathleen Mundy, delve into the multifaceted world of retirement beyond the numbers. This isn't your typical retirement discussion; it's a vibrant journey into what retirement truly means in today's world.
Each episode of "Real Retirement" brings you compelling conversations with guests who bring a wealth of expertise and authentic retirement life experiences. Our goal? To inspire and educate our listeners to approach retirement with intentionality and a broader perspective.
But "Real Retirement" is more than just a podcast. It's a community for those navigating the uncharted waters of retirement, whether you're just starting to plan or are already on this deeply personal journey. We explore a wide array of topics, including:
What sets "Real Retirement" apart? It's our commitment to authenticity. We bring you real stories from real retirees, discussing real challenges, surprises, joys, heartaches, and the myriad emotions that come with retirement. From addressing family dynamics to confronting identity shifts, we tackle the issues that truly matter to retirees.
Join Yasmin and Kathleen as they journey through the honest and often unspoken aspects of retirement. "Real Retirement" isn't just about ending a career; it's about beginning a new, exciting chapter of life with all its complexities and joys. Tune in and be part of a conversation that redefines retirement in the most real way possible.
Jeff and Dean: There's something
that we learned that we wish we
would learn early on in our marriage.
And that is to take two cars to
a party and to be okay with that.
And so not always, but sometimes
we will take two cars because I
know I want to hang out and talk
to people and I'm not ready to go
home early for hours and hours.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Not that long, but I like people
and that's what fills my cup
is engagement with people.
Kathleen, I can tell this
is resonating deeply.
Kathl: are giving me a playlist.
I totally love this.
And the one thing that I hear
more than anything throughout all
of your conversation is respect.
Yasmin: Welcome back to
The Real Retirement Show.
My name is Yasmin, here
with my co host Kathleen.
Whether you're retired or thinking about
retirement, we delve into the multifaceted
world of retirement beyond the finances.
This isn't your typical
retirement conversation.
It's a vibrant journey into what
retirement truly means in today's world.
We bring you real stories from real
retirees and experts discussing
real challenges Surprises, joys,
heartaches, and the myriad of
emotions that come with retirement.
From addressing family dynamics,
to mental and physical health, to
finding purpose, we tackle the issues
that truly matter to retirees and
those thinking about retirement.
In this episode, join us as we
delve into the compelling story
of Jeff and Deana, a couple who
epitomizes living intentionally.
From their initial college romance to
navigating the complexities of marriage,
parenting, and now the threshold of
retirement, their journey is a testament
to the power of intentionality in shaping
a life filled with purpose and connection.
Jeff and Deana share their insights
on how to stay present, embrace
life's challenges, and invest in
relationships that enrich the soul.
Whether you're nearing retirement, re
evaluating your priorities, or seeking
inspiration to live more deliberately,
this conversation promises to enlighten,
inspire, and perhaps even transform
your approach to life and relationships.
Tune in to discover how to fill
your cup, navigating the dynamics
of long term partnership and live
each day with intention and grace.
Let's join our conversation.
, Jeff and Deana, thank you so
one of the reasons why I was excited
to invite you both to join us was just
in a previous conversation with Jeff.
He was just talking about how both
of you are so intentional about
how you spend your time and your
resources and with family and.
And it just reminds me of the
importance of intentionality
as we step into retirement.
So Welcome.
Jeff and Deana: Thank you.
Yasmin: would you share a little
bit about your personal journey?
Jeff and: Well, I studied social
work and did a little bit of work
in the schools prior to having kids.
And then I took about 14 years off
to raise our children, and then
ventured back, Spent about 16 years
working under the Providence Newberg
Health Foundation, coorDeanating
volunteers in a variety of programs
for seniors and children who experience
disabilities and their families.
so I have a real heart for
seniors and actually they were
some of my biggest teachers.
I have to say shout out to all the strong
for lifers that are still out there.
that was one of the
programs that I oversaw.
now I'm working for, another, Lutheran
Community Services Northwest in our
county, also coorDeanating volunteers
to come alongside families in crisis.
working with church communities largely,
to provide circles of support for folks
who just need a little extra, care and,
attention as they are walking through
really difficult seasons of life.
and we met in college.
Yep, and he asked me out
for a whole bunch of dates.
I asked her out because I was so nervous.
And back then we had to actually use
phones to call, and, I asked her out
for three, three different dates.
At the same phone call because
I thought I could get one out of
three, I was playing the smart game.
She had captured my attention
my senior year in college.
Yeah.
And that's when we started
dating, got married.
we were living in California and are
pretty much native Oregonian Idahoans.
We celebrate 36 years.
Yeah, I got to get it right.
36 or 37 years of marriage this year.
And, what I like to say is that,
probably 33 of them, 33 and a
half of them have been awesome.
And yes, we both see that
life, you know, life is real.
So we get to embrace it all.
Kathle: congratulations on that.
That's an amazing, feat.
I'm going to say that,
it is that sometimes.
Jeff and Deana: So, my career,
started here in this town
where we live at a university.
And I worked in residence life
and did a bunch of things with
students then and then had another.
A job in the university that oversaw
camps and challenge courses and retreat
centers and all of that good stuff.
And then spent my last eight years
in the college of business with
running programs there for, graduate
students, undergrad students.
And then I've been on my own doing
my own business consulting and
coaching for the last 10 years.
And it's good.
It's really good.
Yasmin: Jeff, what is the
name of your business?
Jeff and Deana: My business
name is intentionality.
Yasmin: There we
Kathleen: There, perfect.
Jeff and: Yeah, I like to say on
purpose and with purpose that everything
we do and everything I do, I want to be on
purpose and with clear purpose, and that's
somewhat what we're talking about today.
Yasmin: That's the theme, and so
I'm curious, what does it mean for
both of you to live intentionally?
Jeff and Deana: For me, it's
getting up each day and saying,
what does this day hold?
And maybe it's going to bed the night
before and saying, what does tomorrow
hold and how do I choose to embrace that?
and a goal I've had most of my life,
and it's really difficult to do, is, to
be present where I'm at, at all times.
And so that's to be present here.
And I'm one of those guys
that is easily distracted.
So that's been a big challenge for me,
but that's in short, that's what it means
for me to live intentionally is to pay
attention and show up and be present.
Yeah, that's a big question.
Really.
there's a lot of pieces of things
for me that I work to, incorporate
into my life Because I also have a
goal of being present where I am and
bringing my best self to the world.
and I'm more of an introvert.
So I have a different set of things
that I do that help take care of my
soul, mind, body, soul, spirit, so that
I can be present and with the people
that I work with, the people that I
walk alongside, my family, I see life
as journey of listening, like listening
to what truth is my truth to listening
to, other people, but also for me,
what is the invitation for me today?
to be of service, to others, but also
what is, what do I need to listen to
that's happening internally so that
I can, again, be present with that
so that I can show up for others.
Kathle: you mentioned something,
both of you speak of being
present and we hear that so much.
And yet there are many people who
are struggling with that process.
Can you explain a little bit to us today
how we can embrace the art of being
present and putting the other things
aside that seem to crowd in a little
bit, especially because I think that many
people who retire, experience loneliness.
And I think sometimes it's because they're
not living in the present and really
appreciating what's there and what offers
they have and opportunities they have.
Jeff and Dean: I guess the first
thing that comes to my mind is I
think it's so important to do our
soul work, whatever that looks
like, or however you interpret that.
But, for me, that's included
things like therapy, it's included
meeting with a spiritual director.
it's included, having good friends
that, can speak into my life.
and.
Yeah.
I think as we get older, it
becomes even more important
that we have done that work.
And if, and it's not ever too late
either to start that, like you can start
that if you're in that position now
and you're like, Oh, I never did that.
And it's starting to create barriers
for me and my relationships and, how I
want to live this next phase of my life.
there's lots of resources.
And I feel like, even the pandemic,
created a lot of opportunities to learn
online, but there are resources in
every community for things like that.
Kathleen: That's great.
Thank you.
can you elaborate a little bit?
What is your, method?
Jeff and : a good hard question,
Kathleen, because it is in this
day and age of Stuff bombarding us.
I believe that we are in charge
of what we allow to bombard us.
So if I've got a phone that is
going to have a lot of stuff
on it, I'm in charge of that.
I can do what I can do with that.
And I can decide if I want it to have lots
of bells and whistles, or if I don't want
it to talk to me and make any noise or
any bright lights or sounds or anything.
So ultimately it's being
in charge of Where I'm at.
So even things that I do in my coaching
world and I do with my friends and
things I've learned along the way
for a phone, I learned that just
sitting on the table is a distraction.
I put it in my bag when
I'm meeting with people.
So it's not even there because
subconsciously that's taking
me away from the conversation.
you know, there's mindfulness
practices of whether I'm looking at
the windshield wipers in the car and
paying attention and being aware or,
you know, Using the tactile touch and
being aware so I can show up, for the
meetings and times that I'm getting
together and doing work or with friends.
If I'm aware, I will take a deep
breath or two or five before I step
into whatever said meeting that is,
whether it's online or in person.
so those are a few
things that come to mind.
it's being aware with our senses.
Right.
it's the mindfulness practices
and again, being intentional.
and I think I would add to that.
Everybody kind of has their own journey
with this and everybody's we sort of
have to like, try a few things and
figure out what works for you or what
sort of connects you in those ways.
And so I would say that it's been a
meandering journey, at least for me,
as I've been, trying out a lot of
different things and, accepting myself
as who I am, which is very different
than who Jeff is, and what he needs.
And so I think.
there's just an invitation to, explore.
Yasmin: Jeff, you.
had mentioned the word practice and I'm
curious to learn a little bit more about
what are the ways in which you practice
presence and specifically presence
for ourselves because we certainly can
be present for others, but what are
the ways in which you take time for
yourselves and the things that you do
in addition to you mentioned mindfulness
and Deana, you mentioned meditation,
but what are some other ways that you
practice your presence for yourself?
Jeff a: that's a great question.
this morning, this spot right here,
actually, where we're sitting, is
a space that I look out this window
with my cup of coffee in the morning.
So that's how I start.
And I don't start at 6am like
this beautiful person right here.
And I don't go out and run like she
just did this morning, five miles.
I sit with my cup of coffee.
And so the uniqueness of what is it
to step into the day and be aware.
so for one is to do that.
A practice I've had to work against
is getting caught up with the news.
And reading any kind of news feeds
and setting that aside and reading
a book or listening to a podcast.
I've dabbled in meditation on
and off and struggled with that.
I just, I find myself getting
way, way too distracted.
Morning pages, just free writing.
that was a good exercise for a while.
So I've got the personality that
likes to just kind of bop around
and routine becomes boring to me.
Boy, I've got one just like you.
Jeff: And I'm just the opposite.
And the two of you need to talk
because it drives her crazy at times.
And we get to learn to
live with that, right?
Because we're so unique and
different and beautiful.
That's what's cool.
It's just beautiful.
It's really cool to see that, he
teaches me so much and I hope I, You do.
we learn from each other,
which is really cool too.
was thinking of something about
how well you communicate with each other
and how different that communication
is with yourself and with one another.
But, how would you navigate different
ways in which you fill your cup?
Jeff and Deana: movement is
just absolutely necessary.
so I do a lot of different
things around movement.
so I walk, I run, but this
morning I'm also stopping and I'm
examining all the new, little.
Flowers that are coming up and the way
that the dew is on the leaves and, just,
enjoying putting my hands in the water
of the little creek that I crossed and,
you know, just taking in what's here.
I do yoga.
I've actually, the last, few months
have been experimenting with dancing
in the morning, which sounds kind of
silly, but I've been dancing my prayers
and, the things like just welcoming
the day with the dance, I keep all the
curtains closed, but I, so I feel a
little silly, even letting people know,
but it's something that, I am trying.
in my own way to embody what I'm feeling.
And that allows me, like back to your
question, it allows me to get in touch.
So with what, what I am feeling, my body
is often the way that I like feel tension
or figure out that something's off.
And so learning to listen to
those signals, yoga is really
good for that, of course, too.
gardening, putting my hands in the dirt.
All of those things are really important.
And then of course I, I hike
out, in all of the wilderness
spaces that are near and far.
I want to go to as many of
them as I can before I die.
So there's just such beauty everywhere.
I find it's so fascinating even to go to
the desert and to be with those plants and
see how they grow and, observe them in,
these extremes, there's beauty everywhere.
So I, of course I love our
maritime, climate here, but anyway.
I know it's been a long week
when Deana says, okay, so what
are our plans this weekend?
And then quickly followed by,
I have to get to the woods.
I need to go to the woods, to the
forest, to be To be along water and
again, living here in Oregon where we
do, there's so many opportunities and
we fill our cups in different ways.
I, that fills me up to be out in nature.
if it's going to be a long
hike, I can get a little grumpy.
It's you know, let's
do a few other things.
And once I get out there, it's fantastic.
Deana has taught me so many things
about being present in nature.
And we'll even stop along the
trail and take these micro moments.
That's what I call them.
I think you've got a name for it, but
it's a micro moment of just stopping
being still and listening for longer
than a minute, which feels like eternity,
but amazing things that can be taken in.
That I would never recognize if I
just kept on clunking down the trail.
For me to fill my cup
though is very different.
Yesterday I was up at Mount Hood,
two hours from here skiing by myself.
Drove up there.
I love adrenaline types
of activities more so.
And, I even have an app on my phone
that will tell me how fast I'm going.
So sometimes I want to see,
it tells me how many runs I
did, how many vertical feet.
And so yesterday was the top speed was 32.
5 miles an hour.
It's Oh, that's not fast enough.
So I've got this competitive space
in me that can be, Not always great.
That's a little scary.
I tell him not to tell me.
I just want to know that he's home.
I promise I'll call her before I leave
the mountain and let her know that
I didn't break any bones and that I
didn't ski through the trees by myself.
but, so going to the mountains for me
is to do those kinds of activities.
We love together.
We backpack in the summertime.
we'll go out at five, seven days at a
time and carry everything on our backs
And I met a lady yesterday at the lodge.
So I, what I like in this practicing
retirement phase right now is being able
to go up, go ski a few runs, come back in.
And then I had a coaching call,
executive leadership coaching
call with a guy from Nebraska.
So I'm online looking at my phone.
Technology's incredible.
Sitting in the middle of this lodge,
ski lodge and talking with my client and
working through some big stuff with some
personnel issues they got going Didn't
realize I'm taking up the whole table
and this lady, and all of a sudden it's
lunchtime and it's loud, but I'm just,
I somehow have that ability just to
focus in and she goes, can I sit here?
Anyway, short story long or long
story short, I got off my call
and Then I got to talking to her.
She's 65.
I turned 60 this next month.
And she was telling her story,
and she goes, yeah, I've
decided to start skiing again.
And found out that she sea kayaks,
she skis, she bikes, and she lives
five miles from where we live.
all of a sudden the world shrunk.
And here is someone who's
taking care of herself.
And I was wondering,
does she have a husband?
does he go with her?
And so we got into some of
that and she goes, you know, he
hasn't chosen to live as well in
regards to his body and his diet.
And I refused to sit
at home and do nothing.
And so we talked about clubs that
she's joined and people she's met to be
able to be in the space, to do things
that she loves that fill her cup.
So it was a great conversation.
And now I know a couple of clubs
that we need to take a look at so
that we can connect with people
that like similar activities.
We're always looking
for people on the trail.
It's can we meet someone our same
age that hikes about the same pace
so we can get some hiking friends
that, so we're still working on that.
Yasmin: I love how proactive
both of you are in pursuing the
experiences that fill your cup.
And I'm curious, as you have each
shared different ways in which you do
so, how do you communicate or how do
you navigate when you have different
interests, different needs at different
points in time to stay in sync?
Jeff : We have lots of comments.
It's a lot of talking.
Yeah.
I think also just.
Learning to give each other, grace and
space and space and like this, these
things that I'm doing, I think probably
early on, like Jeff probably did that.
For himself more than I did.
And so then I was feeling angry and
frustrated and how can we get to do that?
And I don't get it.
So as a part of my process and journey and
therapy around okay, what are the things
that I need to be doing to fill my cup?
And so as, since we're both engaged
in that, then there's a lot more.
I feel like generosity in our
relationship around you need this.
I'm so glad you're getting to do this
because I know this fills your cup
and we'll often tell each other that
I'm so glad you're doing that, go
enjoy that, cause I know you're going
to come back, rejuvenated and, Ready
to be here in, in our relationship.
So I think that, yeah, there's something
that we learned that we wish we
would learn early on in our marriage.
And that is to take two cars to
a party and to be okay with that.
And so not always, but sometimes
we will take two cars because I
know I want to hang out and talk
to people and I'm not ready to go
home early for hours and hours.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Not that long, but I like people
and that's what fills my cup
is engagement with people.
Kathleen, I can tell this
is resonating deeply.
Kathl: are giving me a playlist.
I totally love this.
And the one thing that I hear
more than anything throughout all
of your conversation is respect.
that is woven through how you speak
about one another and the quest for
enjoying the opportunities the other
person is having, not needing to be
involved, but enjoying it through them.
that's comes across loud and clear.
So I just really want to praise
you for that because, those are the
kinds of things that I think, you
share with people and they become
more like that through osmosis.
Jeff and Deana: Yeah.
and I've even shared with some friends
that we take two cars and they're
like, that would really help us.
Because there becomes that tension point.
And it's you know, we love each
other and it's not that we don't,
we love each other so much that
let's do some things differently.
And I'll go to a jazz concert
at nine o'clock at night when a
friend invites me at eight o'clock.
And Deana's no way in heck,
am I going to do that?
That's stupid.
and I'm going, bring it on.
I like things like that.
and then still do things where I
go, I don't, I'm not feeling it.
And yet, yeah, let's go.
And we were talking last night.
I was with a group of buddies
that also fills my cup.
We get together about every
three, four weeks and they're
called my deep water brothers.
And, we just get together and
share our lives and don't fix
each other and it's fantastic.
Kathleen: that is, that's
a profound statement.
Don't fix each other.
Jeff and Deana: we don't, we
listen and it's hard work.
And, It's so refreshing for me.
So that's another thing that fills my cup.
And then I have what, so tonight
I'm getting together with my rogue
sisters for the same reason they're,
my, I call them the wild women.
but we are journeying together
right through life and,
holding space for one another.
It's been a really powerful place.
Powerful relationship.
Those relationships are really powerful.
Yeah.
I was thinking about something else
that we learned that was really
helpful is the words I am noticing.
so starting a conversation with, I
am noticing it's a way that's allowed
us to talk about harder things.
Somebody saying, this
is really annoying me.
and it's also helpful for us when
we're doing that, then we can be
a mirror for one another so we
can grow, you know, as people.
Yeah.
Kathleen: Well, it sounds to
me like you've grown a lot and,
Yasmin, you've, I know you've got,
he's so quiet and so wonderful.
We are so not the same.
And, I know he's got a plethora
of questions that he's a little
anxious to, to put out there.
So I will stop.
And I will let you, move
forward for a second,
Yasmi: No, Kathleen, if you were
to listen to some of our podcasts,
conversations prior to this, we'd
be jumping in all over each other.
And I think it's part of our learning
process, part of how we navigate and
appreciate and respect one another
I love that fact that not only are
you Practicing the habits of filling
your cup during this period of time
as a means of practicing retirement.
But you're also practicing
your relationships
as well, too, because so often we find
couples, partners that all of a sudden
have an abundance of time with each
other, where they have been out of
practice in communicating and relating
and respecting one another, that it
becomes a source of conflict and stress.
And I so appreciate that You're
mindful and intentional about doing
that now, building that muscle.
So as you have more and more time
together, you're able to appreciate the
differences that you have, but also the
commonalities that you get to share.
Jeff and Deana: don't want
to be ships passing in the
night with no ports in sight.
We want to be aware and that,
again, it's not easy peasy.
it takes work.
and we've learned a lot of things along
the way, obviously, as we're talking and
we'll continue to learn and for us,
that's also a piece that is a common
thread of learning, of keeping our minds
engaged, of listening to podcasts, of
exchanging ideas in different subjects.
We have very different subjects
that we like to explore.
And so I've gotten to travel
the globe with Deana Travel
by watching YouTube videos
of people all over the world with
van life and hiking and exploring
and plants and this and this.
And I've gotten to learn.
Which has been fantastic.
And other times we'll sit here
in the house and she's on her
computer watching something.
I'm on my computer watching
something and they're very different.
I've listened to a lot of business
podcasts that I would never listen to.
But you know, there's certainly
a lot of overlap, right?
In being, doing business well and walking
alongside people, which is, my work.
So I think there's a lot of overlap.
So it's been good to learn
it sounds to me as though you've
really approached this as a partnership
and we talked a little bit about some of
the stressors that happen when, people
retire and now they're full time together
and they're trying to navigate that.
And one of the things that's sometimes
crops up is the financial end of it.
and they're not on the same page.
what's your approach to
finding a, Oh, I see.
I've hit a nerve.
I think some commonality
about your finances.
Jeff and Deana: I think I'll
just shut up at this point.
Oh, we have struggled with this one,
but you know, I think, let's see.
So we, in short, It has just definitely
been, an area of tension in our
relationship for a lot of years.
what helped us was creating a
budget that we both agreed on.
so we had some, we had a planner, a
financial planner that kind of helped
us preparing a financial wealth
advisor, huge marital therapy, you
know, helped us like, okay, your task
is to, create a budget that you both
agree on and then how do we do that?
How do we work that out?
that's been really helpful for us.
and then, having conversations
around, well, what are we going to
give and who are we going to give to
and taking turns, getting to decide,
with our extra, how we're going to
support people in our community.
So we have, that has been fun.
and part of that, creating that
budget that we both agree on.
has been giving, we gave
each other mad money.
So we each have a little line item with
a little bit of mad money that we get
to, nobody else gets to decide what
we do with, and we have very different
approaches of what happens with that.
and what are some other things
around that, that you can think of?
it seemed like there was
something else that was good.
Yeah.
It's been a commitment to
what is enough, you know, and
that's an important question.
I think at this stage in life
and throughout life, what's
enough money or what's time.
What's enough friends?
What's enough, what's enough clothes.
We have so much excess in this world.
So to the money, as you well know,
I'm guessing is the emotions of money
create, Often not this, but this and
we came from very different backgrounds
and I'm an emotional spender and she's
an emotional saver and in short, and
that created its opportunities to have
some really hard conversations and
having someone that we meet with to
talk about our money has been really
helpful and then making commitments.
This is we're in this together.
And then I don't feel,
I would feel punished.
we can't spend this.
And I just, I want to go have
experiences and do stuff, you know,
and realizing that if we want to do
that, really being committed to doing
this so that we have that to do this.
So I, we could spend three or four
hours talking about all the things
that we've learned, in, in that regard.
Kathl: Takeaway here, though, is
that you had someone who, quite frankly,
coached you through that process.
And then you were committed to
it, and were consistent with it,
and you had those common goals
decided and designed together.
So I think that's a beautiful way to
approach that whole element of retirement.
Jeff and D: Thank God for Jerry.
Jerry is a savior.
And we realized one of the best
ways, we just realized this.
We were traveling to Idaho and we
had our yearly financial planning
session and we had to make a
last minute trip kind of thing.
And so we sat in a park
in a beautiful forest.
That is a place that Deana loves and the.
The internet worked well enough and
we sat outside in the pine trees.
Jerry's in his office back
here and had our meeting.
And so that's the best.
It's like, why have we not had
those kinds of meetings where we're
sitting in this very conducive space
where that takes that out of the
Kathleen: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
That is exactly.
That's a really good.
We should coin that phrase
because I called it yuck, but
I love what you just said.
It's very challenging
and emotions percolate.
during that conversation.
And sometimes they're not always positive.
So I really admire your approach.
But
Jeff : I grew up with not a lot.
And so that sense of, hanging on.
So part of my soul work, right, has
been learning to loosen up and approach
things with more open hands, so it's
not just him not spending wildly,
but it's also me learning to spend.
And to enjoy it.
and I get excited when she spends money,
because then I don't feel as guilty.
And we're coming back from
Idaho in a long, hard week.
And we may touch on this, but with
Deana's parents and hospice and
conversations around all of having, you
know, elderly parents, And we really
needed to kind of detox before we step
back into life here as we know it.
And Deana, who does not like hot water.
I love natural hot springs
and I love hot tubs.
Just the opposite.
She'll sit on the edge of the hot tub.
I'm hot already.
and she's going, let's stop
at this place on the way back.
Wouldn't that be great?
And I'm going, I didn't
want to get too excited.
It was a natural hot
springs kind of place.
And we spent more money than we would
typically spend on a meal to sit in these
hot tubs and overlook this beautiful lake.
And it was fantastic.
So, all right, we're spending,
you know, she's been set free.
So I got to be careful.
Kathleen: sounds like
you prioritize together.
Jeff and D: and we were, talking
as we're caring for my parents,
like the importance of also caring
for our ourselves in this journey,
because we're still working,
we've got lots of commitments.
And that was a piece of what, so
we stopped at this beautiful place.
I like that we found, Campground and,
the area they're restoring down by a
river, and on the way, and then on the
way back, we stopped at the hot springs.
So yeah, it was good.
and I don't feel guilty,
which also feels good.
Bottom line, it's about values.
We've determined what our values
are, what's important to us, and
let's live into that every day.
Deana, you brought up something
that's I've noticed is prevalent to
is our folks as they navigate into
this chapter of retirement to having
saved most of their lives, the they're
out of practice in terms of spending
or allowing themselves to be able
to know that it's safe, it's okay.
And you've done all you've done a
lot of the hard work and planning.
So it's an important, concept that.
That there are a lot of folks that
are navigating that as well too.
going back to your
relationship, I'm curious.
What do you do when you get
out of sync with each other?
How do you get back in sync?
Jeff and Deana: Great question.
What do we do?
Kathleen: Sounds like you're
not out of sync very much.
Jeff and Deana: I'm thinking
I, we give each other space.
There are times, I've had to learn
to say, do you need me to listen?
Do you need me to coach?
Do you need advice?
What do you need right now in
this conversation that I can
tell is really important to you?
Because I've been the advice,
jump in and I'm going to fix it.
Impatient.
It's not that hard.
Come on.
This is not science rocket.
We can get through this
and just to simply shut up.
and that's difficult.
And I don't always do that.
Yeah.
We keep practicing and working at that.
So I think space is part
of when we're not in sync.
Yeah, and I think for me
too, I like to fix him too.
I think it goes both ways.
So part of our journeys, right, has been
learning to not do that and to listen.
I think sometimes we go on walks.
When we need to like, yeah,
that's a really good thing.
Cause then I'm moving my
body, which is helpful
Kathleen: Right.
That's right.
Jeff and Deana: it's not a
bad thing for him as well.
And, that's a, you know, we're
also in public, so it also
I don't know what you're going
Jeff and : reduces what, I know,
no, it's a good, it's a good way to
kind of come back to the respect place.
Right.
And it's, growing up, we have three
kids, adult children now, and it's
sometimes giving ourselves a time out.
Back when our kids were little, we
had a chair that we called Australia.
And you need to go to Australia right now.
not timeout because timeout is
punishment, but go hang out in Australia.
I can't tell you how many times
I sent myself to Australia,
because dad needed a break.
And I think we kind of have that
practice without calling it that.
I need space.
and also it's a commitment to
come back to X, Y, Z subject.
So it's not I'm gonna step away.
We're out of sync.
It's, I need space.
I didn't want to think about
this and we'll come back.
And the other thing is that we've
given each other permission to
speak truth kindly, to be direct.
This is what I need.
I really struggled with saying
this is what I need, not want.
This is what I need from her right now.
And that's hard to say.
It's hard to say.
It's hard to hear.
Yeah,
Kathleen: to come up with
these really profound methods?
Because, as you're speaking them, they
seem kind of simple and yeah, they
make sense and it's logical, but it
seems it's not as easy as it sounds.
Is this an intentional journey that
you took or is it through evolution?
Jeff and Deana: it's
only taken me 59 years.
It'll be 60 in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, I think it's been a journey of
wanting, an end goal of wanting to have a
good relationship with one another, right?
and I think Giving ourselves
permission to be seen.
And I mean, cause I think so much
of what we want out of life is to be
seen as we are and loved anyway, and.
So as we have done our own sort
of internal soul work, that's a
given us the capacity to give, to
allow the other person to show up
as they are, and to see them and to
respect them and love them in that.
and I think the other piece of that, as
I was hearing Jeff speak was, we have.
Been willing to really own our stuff,
we've been willing to say, yeah, I
can see how that would make you feel.
I can see, I hear that.
I see that.
I'm so sorry.
You know, like to own the things that
we, when we make mistakes as humans.
that's also been a part of that.
That's been there all along.
Yasmin: it's powerful.
Wow.
Kathleen, did you have
Oh, I have a million questions
because I think that what you've
done is really given our listeners.
really intense roadmap, although it
seems soft in the edges, but it really
is intentional and intense because if you
don't do it, it's not going to happen.
I think the point that you make is that
you live intentionally and it's not by,
Happenstance that your life is, that
you have now has been created to, give
you both the space and the ability to be
yourself, but then yourselves together.
And I'm just, profoundly impressed.
Gray divorce is a huge issue for retirees.
And I think this episode is going to be
a perfect example of how to get on the
path to prevent that from happening.
Because there isn't any way in the
world that someone with the attitudes
that you've just demonstrated
would end up in a courtroom.
It just wouldn't happen.
Jeff and Deana: yeah.
And we've seen that happen with friends
and I've seen that happen with the
vacuum that all of a sudden shows
up when I'm working and now I'm not.
You know, I can sit in a restaurant and
over here, a guy say, I've got 444 days
and then I'm out of jail kind of thing.
And I'm going, what a
miserable life, what a bummer.
And I wanted to go, dude, come on.
in retirement, whatever that means,
we're going to continue to serve and
to work and to play and it's life.
So it's living, it's living well
now and being well now so that
we can live and be well later.
And, we were given a gift from our
son, and his wife that said, we've
watched Grammy and Papa and Grandpa
and Grandma, our parents that are still
living, which is a huge gift to us.
We've watched them age and then not
have the abilities physically to go
do things that they wanted to do.
And they gifted us with trips,
surprise, unique to who we are
and honoring of who we are.
took Deana to the Swiss Alps to go
hike Hut to Hut, and they were the tour
guides, and they spent time together.
I will be going next February to
Japan to go powder skiing for two
weeks, and they're handing this
gift to us because they want to be
with us now while we're in Japan.
Able bodied, whatever that
means, and so it's like just the
fact that they gave that to us.
I don't have to go on the trip.
That was like, oh my gosh,
this is pretty powerful.
so I would like to think
we've modeled some of that and
helped, our kids in that space.
and not to say that the journey of
aging and aging parents when they're
not able bodied, they're still
themselves and we're still journeying
with them and just in a new way.
Right.
and the end of life is a precious time.
so yeah, not to, not that
you weren't, Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It's a blend.
Yeah.
it's a blender.
Yasmi: Well, it has been such an
inspiration hearing about your journey
individually as well as together.
And, thank you so much for sharing
with us a piece of, your experience.
Cause we know that so many of, our
audience members could, experience
some inspiration and hope and
possibilities from our conversation.
So thank you.
Jeff and Deana: Thank you.
Kathleen: I have some takeaways.
Yasmin: Yes.
Kathleen, take it away.
Kathleen: I will.
Thank you, Yasmin.
But I'm going to say this.
I never take notes.
This is the first time, and Yasmin
can attest to this, but I want to
just thank you so much for what you've
brought, the kindness that you've shown.
And I know that our audience is
going to love listening to you.
So I'm going to just be bold
and I'm going to say, we need
to have a recap with you guys.
After you do that powder
skiing, I want to.
Talk to you both again because I think
you've just had the most wonderful
gift from your children and their
attitude towards your aging parents
is, so incredibly unique because
I'm not hearing that from others.
And I want to say thank you so much.
And if anyone wants to hear more of these
wonderful episodes, subscribe, please.
We love to hear what you want and we're
excited to bring you more of this.
And I so appreciate meeting you both today
and sharing this and learning so much.
I love it.
Jeff and Deana: likewise.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us.
It's been good to talk with you as well
and to consider some of these questions
that we don't necessarily ask ourselves.
Yasmin: Thank you for taking
the time to join us today.
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episode at realretirementshow.
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journey we get to experience together.
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