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What is the best supplement for me? What potency is right? What does the research show? Is it worth the money? These and all of your other supplement questions are answered here. Jared St. Clair brings well researched information so that you can make more informed decisions regarding your health, specifically focused on how to effectively use natural supplements to optimize your health and Vitality. Of course supplement and food choices aren't the only factors in optimal health. Jared also shares a regular series of Emotional Vitality episodes that will help you release the negativity that may be holding you back and embrace your full potential. Vitality Radio is not JUST about health, it is about HEALTH FREEDOM. Jared provides needed insight into the current threats to your health as well as the threats coming from government agencies, pharmaceutical companies and modern medicine as a whole. With over 35 years of experience in the natural products world, and a hearty dose of wit and sarcasm, Vitality Radio isn't just educational but entertaining and enlightening.
Welcome to Vitality Radio. I'm your host. My name is Jared Clair. And on today's episode, I am so excited to bring to you a guest that is near and dear to my heart and let her tell her story. We talk a lot nowadays about mental health and on Vitality Radio, I have spoken a lot about mental health.
Speaker 1:I did a show, oh a couple of years ago now that I titled Mental Health Labels and I actually shared a bit of my guest's story on that episode and she and I are fortunate enough to be able to help people understand the neurology of what's going on with things like depression and anxiety and OCD and PTSD and things like that through coaching what we call Emotional Vitality, where we teach a concept that was developed by a friend of ours named Lamont Wilcox. And so today is all gonna be about the combination of things that you can do to improve your mental health. And we're talking about the things that many, if not all of us struggle with at different times. Again, depression, anxiety, OCD, ADD, PTSD, you can name the thing bipolar. There are answers for these things in nature and there are answers inside your own mind.
Speaker 1:And we're gonna talk a lot about that today. We'll start talking about supplements, we'll talk about pharmaceuticals and the role that they play in this. We'll talk about diet, we'll talk about tools that you can use for your own mental and emotional well-being. And so without further ado, I'd like to introduce the woman of my dreams. Her name is Jen Jensen.
Speaker 1:I love her dearly and I'm so excited to finally have her on the Vitality Radio Podcast. Jen, welcome to Vitality Radio.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm excited to be here. A little nervous, but I'm excited.
Speaker 1:As you're nervous, just remember this was your idea and I did not hold a gun to your head. Okay? But we're gonna have fun. So let's go ahead and just get right into it. Well, just a quick little backstory for people that don't know us, which would be the majority of people listening at least personally.
Speaker 1:Jen and I met the way that most desperate divorced people do online through a dating service. And when we met, we had a a really, really long phone call into the wee hours of the morning, the first time that we actually talked to each other before we met in person. And that was four and a half ish years ago now, about four and a half, almost on the nose I guess, pretty close. And so that's how long we've known one another and we came from places, very different backgrounds, very different situations in many ways. And when our first conversation was a doozy, we'll get into that as Jen tells her story, but that's how we met.
Speaker 1:We have we are now a couple, and I am crazy about this woman that you're gonna hear her story, and you'll understand why once you listen. So, Jen, we'll start with, well, your childhood. What happened back then?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a long time ago. I I mean, I had a pretty normal childhood, I guess. Nothing super traumatic in my life, but I always struggled a lot with just kind of being sad, poor self esteem, all the things that I I don't know, to me felt like what a typical kid went through. About the time I was 13, 13, I was really struggling with an eating disorder, and the depression had got to a point that my my mom especially was didn't know what to do. She had no idea how to help me or what to do with me.
Speaker 2:So she took me into the doctor. I grew up in a very western medicine home. So all the things I had been pretty healthy other than I had ear infections from the time I was about six months old and eventually had tubes put in my ears and my adenoids taken out at five. But I had been on antibiotics a ton throughout. In fact, to the point that I developed a pretty severe allergy to penicillin because I had been it had been prescribed to me so much.
Speaker 2:So by the time I I I was about I believe my really bad reaction was right around the age of 12. Face, throat swelled up. And, anyway, that's a whole other story. But other than that, you know, had been pretty healthy other than the the mood stuff. So she took me in to the doctor, and at that time, there was a brand new antidepressant out called Prozac.
Speaker 2:And I was one of I I was put on Prozac pretty quick after it came out, and it was as much for in fact, at the time, I remember it being they're marking marketing it more towards me for the eating disorder than for exactly depression. But that was my first go around with my first introduction to SSRIs. Did some counseling in there. High school was rough. It was a lot of up and down with both the eating disorder and the severe mood swings.
Speaker 2:I I turned to cutting during that time as a release for a lot of the emotional stuff that I felt inside that I couldn't deal with. And that that pretty much summed up my my early teen years. I graduated from high school when I was 17 and immediately moved out of my parents' house. And let's say fell into the wrong crowd when I went to college. And in that group, there was a lot of recreational drug use during that time.
Speaker 2:And I let the anti depressants kind of slip away during that. There was about four, five years of that. I kind of let them fall to the wayside, but I was I was using, things like marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, things along those lines on a pretty regular basis. And I've we we were just having the conversation not too long ago. I realized during that time I wasn't depressed.
Speaker 2:I didn't, and and make that what you will. But the depression wasn't an issue during that time. As I think back about it, I really can't remember being sad. But I spent quite a few years in that lifestyle. I ended up getting pregnant with my son and realized I needed to get out of that situation and moved away down to a place in Utah called Ogden and started a new life with as a single mom with my son.
Speaker 2:It was after I had him that I remember really crashing hard. It all, you know, and it probably was a combination of a bunch of things of a whole new life, being a single mom, the whatever, the depression I had had before came crashing down on me. I'm sure there was hormonal postpartum stuff, but that was a really dark time in my life. The cutting picked up quite heavily again. Lots of thoughts of suicide, and so I ended up back in the doctor's office to to get on another antidepressant because I I figured that had to be the answer.
Speaker 2:And pretty much from that time on, I have I was medicated up until about four years ago. And I went through I ran the gamut on all of the antidepressants. Like I said, I started with Prozac. I had done Paxil. I've done Wellbutrin.
Speaker 2:I've done Zoloft. I've done Celexa. I've done Lexapro. And I'm sure there's a few others in there that I'm forgetting. Through all of my pregnancies, I was on antidepressants because they all the doctors told me that I would not be able to it it was safer to stay on them than to go off of them while I was pregnant.
Speaker 2:So I stayed on them with all of my pregnancies. And that is well, and then about probably I'm trying to remember the timeline. I've probably about nine years ago. They actually changed my diagnosis from major depressive disorder. And therapists, I'd seen therapists and all that in between, they had thrown out personality disorders.
Speaker 2:So finally I had a doctor that looked at everything and all of the medications and that they weren't really, they hadn't helped a ton. Like, I'd been on them long term, but was still I was still a mess. And basically, his answer was, well, they're treating you wrong. This is bipolar. And SSRIs alone don't work for bipolar.
Speaker 2:They actually can make it worse. You need a mood stabilizer with the SSRI. And I, like, at that point thought, oh my goodness, this is the answer. Like this is what's been missing all the time, why this isn't working. I need, you know, they're gonna put me on the mood stabilizer with the antidepressant and it's going to make it all better.
Speaker 2:And so at that point, I went on to Lamictal, which was which is a mood stabilizer. And I think I felt better for a little bit. I I from what I know now and have learned, I think a lot of that was just the belief that I would feel better because, well, it was figured out now. But with that diagnosis also came my brain likes to understand things, and so I dove deep into that diagnosis of what bipolar was, what treatments were, all the things, what that looked like, and how, you know, how to live with that because I was told this is you the rest of your life. So medication and learning to cope.
Speaker 2:So as I dug into that, wanting to understand it so I could do the best I could for myself, I also created this really deep seated belief that that was who I was. And and there was nothing there's not if you dive into that at all, you'll learn really quick. There's no hope in it. In You're base
Speaker 1:In the bipolar diagnosis, you mean?
Speaker 2:In the bipolar diagnosis. Yes. You're you're basically stuck. You're there's nothing that will change it. You can't be cured.
Speaker 2:The best you can do is find medications that will help deal with the symptoms, and then you learn to cope, and the people around you learn to cope. And most people leave because they can't put up with it, and that's just something you have to kinda deal with. That was the gist of what I interpreted in my reading of bipolar. And so yeah. It was kind of it's it's in some way, it's a death sentence in some ways, like you're not dying immediately, but that's you're never getting out of it.
Speaker 2:It's you're just stuck with it.
Speaker 1:It's at least a life sentence, right, in prison? Yes. Yeah. So
Speaker 2:Yes. The prison are really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so it's an interesting thing because it from my point of view, obviously, anybody that listens to Vitality Radio would know that I would see all kinds of holes in what Jen believed in terms of her diagnosis and what she'd been told. But it's an interesting thing when you get to a certain age, some of us anyway, start recognizing that we don't have to care too much what other people think about what we do. Now I admire Jen in in a huge way because she's never been one who cared all that much about what other people were thinking. I was a long term lifetime people pleaser.
Speaker 1:I hope to believe that I'm far less of that now as I've learned some things. But I've always admired that about about you, Jen, because you you just you're able you're willing to tell your story. You're willing to show everybody your warts, and it's it's just it is what it is, and people don't necessarily have to agree with you or think like you and you can be fine. And I appreciate that because I have been working towards that for several years, but one of the things that was interesting, I thought, and we laugh about it a lot because it's one of my favorite stories to tell of the origin story of Jen and Jared, is when we did have that long night conversation. And what happened was correct me if I'm wrong here, Jen, but my understanding is that a couple of your kids put you up to getting online to a dating site.
Speaker 1:You did not want to do it. You were pretty recently divorced at the time. It'd only been a year maybe or less.
Speaker 2:Separate year, been divorced just over a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes. I had no interest in dating.
Speaker 1:Right. And then you so you're on there. They made you get on there. I saw you and said, oh, she's pretty and sounds interesting. So I'll you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what happened. Maybe I sent a message or maybe you sent a message, but I know I'm the only guy that you ever talked to that was on the dating website. Correct?
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Yes. So then we're talking, and I don't think we started talking till, I don't know, 09:30 or 10:00 at night or something like that. It was pretty late.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was late.
Speaker 1:And you started giving me every single reason why I would never ever want to be caught dead in a relationship with you, including a lot of what you just shared with, you know, with our listeners here on Vitality Radio. You know, I'm bipolar, and we'll we'll talk a little bit about addiction here in a minute, which you haven't mentioned yet. And you you started sharing all these things with me, and I was there was an interesting it was an interesting time because I could tell that you had this massive inner strength that you didn't recognize, that, like, you you didn't see it in yourself. I saw it in you. And I could tell that you were a really beautiful person despite all of these all this trauma that you'd been through and and and how you felt about yourself.
Speaker 1:And so I was intrigued, but I frankly thought I probably don't wanna date this person. She's got a lot of baggage that she's holding on to. May maybe she's not for me. I actually had been previously married to people with anxiety and depression issues, I thought, you know, maybe not again. But there was something about you that made me think, okay, I at least need to get to know this person at the very least.
Speaker 1:And but because I frankly didn't feel like I had anything to lose because I really wasn't thinking that we were gonna be dating and become a couple, I was probably a lot more bold than I normally am. And when you told me you had bipolar, I said, no, you don't. And you thought I was I don't know. What'd you think? Crazy?
Speaker 2:Bold stupid? They're one of those people that's never experienced it so you can't possibly understand it.
Speaker 1:Right. That's right. So Yeah. I and and and this is why I said it. And if you went back and listened to the episode, and we'll put it in the in the the description of this episode.
Speaker 1:If So you wanna go back and listen to me tell this story without Jen's input, it's a shorter version of it, but I I kinda go through it and and talk a little bit about how this went down. But the whole idea behind that show was to challenge the idea of mental health labels. I just simply believe that mental health labels and frankly most health labels are on some level a prison sentence. Particularly things that doctors will tell you we can't fix this thing. So whether it's bipolar or rheumatoid arthritis, I don't really care.
Speaker 1:I just simply don't believe that these things can't be fixed or that at least they're not worth trying to fix and that, people can get better from these types of things. So I was there saying, no, you aren't bipolar. And it wasn't that I was denying that she had symptoms, I just simply didn't believe that anyone was bipolar, that that was part or should be part of anyone's identity and that by accepting that, there were problems. So I was kind of a bold, arrogant little guy there on the phone. And then
Speaker 2:Just a little.
Speaker 1:And then Jen told me a story about addiction. Would you like to share that really quick and then we'll talk about what I did with that?
Speaker 2:Sure. So in the middle of all of that, so, you know, I I was got married and had more kids, had a nice family going, and I had some pain here and there, you know, as we all do. And I had been prescribed an opiate. And it's it's funny because for whatever reason, I can remember the conversation so well with the doctor the first time I went in trying to find relief for this chronic pain that I had in my neck and back and shoulder back area. Him specifically saying there's this really great new drug that works like opiates, but it's not addicting.
Speaker 2:And it's great, I'm gonna put you on it and all the things. Well, that drug was OxyContin. And as we all know now, it is highly addicting. But like just those words, it's not addicting, just still rings in my ears of him saying that. And so I use that off and on.
Speaker 2:I didn't fall into addiction. I'd be I was addicted to it right away. I liked how I felt on it a lot, and it got rid of the pain. And so, you know, it was a bonus, but as far as the continual use, that took a few years to build up. I would get it when I could.
Speaker 2:I'd run out and feel miserable for a little while, but it wasn't as full blown as it eventually became. But I did start to get to a point where the pain was getting more constant and I needed it more often or thought I needed it more often. When I had the opportunities, I would if I knew somebody had it in their house, I would take it if I could get a hold of it. And then I did get to a point where it was being prescribed to me on the regular. I would get a bottle of ninety pills of and at this point I was this was more this was Lortab.
Speaker 2:I had it was cheaper, I can't remember how we ended up switching to Lortab's but, so I was on Lortab and I would go to it, I actually ended up going to a pain clinic, pain doctor because I was taking so much of it. They they were monitoring it and, like, it was kind of a pretend monitoring. Like, we're gonna send you here because it looks like we're keeping track of it, but they still I could still get it from other doctors if I wanted to, and they were giving me a bottle of 90. And at one point, I was if that lasted me two weeks, that was stretching it out. I'd run out and if I couldn't get it then I would steal it or I had a neighbor that could get me tramadol which I didn't like, but it at least covered the bases until I could get more of the Lortab.
Speaker 2:And I spent a good five years, a hard three years really just constantly on the opiates. To the point that and on top of it they had thrown in Xanax. Had Xanax for as needed. Thank goodness I didn't have quite as big of a problem with being addicted to the Xanax as I did to the opiates. But I did end up overdosing on Xanax at one point.
Speaker 2:I had some stuff happen in my life that because I was so numbed out with with the opiates, I just couldn't I had no idea how to cope with it. And so I emptied a bottle of Xanax, and my I happened to be at my parents' house when this happened, and they found me and got me to the hospital. I don't remember much of that. Spent I was only in the hospital overnight. I convinced them that it was unintentional, and so they let me go home.
Speaker 2:A couple weeks later, I didn't actually I had taken a lot of Lortab, but I was taking up to ten a day easily as it was. But I had a plan to go, I had a pretty fresh bottle and I had a plan to go finish that bottle. Some family found me and put me into rehab at that point. And so I spent a week in the psych ward and detoxing. And just to sum that up, it was hell, living hell.
Speaker 2:I chose to not do Suboxone and some of the things. I did have to be put on some blood pressure meds and a few lower end things to keep my heart rate was way out of whack. My blood pressure was really out of whack. All the withdrawal stuff. But I chose to go through the withdrawals and not mute them or numb them down.
Speaker 2:I I had started attending addiction recovery programs, and I had watched too many people I knew replace one addiction with another that, you know, they claim is safer, but it didn't it it was just continuing an addiction. And so I went cold turkey as cold turkey as I could, and about six solid weeks of pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms that I can still to this day remember quite well, keeps me from wanting to ever repeat that again. So that but during that time I was still, know, I was medicated on my bipolar meds and my SSRI. And so technically, you know, I should have been happy and not needing any.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:To to make me feel better. And it did. It became much more about numbing emotions than it pain was real, a 100%. But it became much more about numbing emotions than it did the actual physical pain.
Speaker 1:Well we know now that clinically speaking opiates long term aren't very effective for pain anyway. They really wear off You and so
Speaker 2:just have to be taking more which is why I was ten to twelve Lortab 10s a day. I would go to I can remember going to bed a couple times and feeling my breathing getting really shallow and just thinking this is it. I'm not gonna wake up tomorrow. And then I did and I rolled over and I popped another handful for the day.
Speaker 1:See why see why I fell in love with her? Okay. So let's let's go back to the phone call. So she's telling me this story, this very story at maybe two in the morning, 01:30 in the morning. I don't know.
Speaker 1:It was really late or really early.
Speaker 2:It was
Speaker 1:And I was tired. I will say this, up until very recently, all you had to do is say, go to sleep, Jared, and I'd go to sleep. It was not an ease a hard thing for me to sleep at all. Lately, it's been a little bit more challenging. Thank goodness for Vital Sleep, but that's another story.
Speaker 1:So I'm laying there in my bed in the dark listening to these kinda horror stories of of this woman I don't know telling me why I shouldn't date her. And in the middle of that story of her suicide attempt, I fell asleep.
Speaker 2:I hear snoring.
Speaker 1:And that is I I don't know how I don't know what to say about it. I feel terrible about it to this day. I so I I don't know because we are on cell phones, but somehow or another because it wouldn't have been a dial tone, but somehow I noticed that she was gone. Maybe it's because she stopped talking and I was, you know, her soothing tones of
Speaker 2:I did finally.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So she hung up. That woke me up. So maybe there was like a beep beep or whatever. Anyway, regardless, I woke up.
Speaker 1:I called her back. I said, I am so sorry. I don't know what happened. I'm exhausted. Continue.
Speaker 1:She told me the story again, and within a couple of days, she decided to come in and visit me where I work at Vitality Nutrition. I call it stalking. She calls it visiting. And we met face to face. And then we went I said, well, I gotta work for a little bit while longer a little while longer, but when I'm done with work, let's go grab dinner.
Speaker 1:So we went to grab dinner, and I am the health food guy who loves pizza, so I took her to a pizza place across the street. And two really cool things happened at the pizza place. The first thing is we walk in there, I don't know anybody that works at this pizza place. Okay? We walk in there, I'm in line and they ask me my name for my order and I say Jared and this kid is starting to make the pizza and he says, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Your voice is really familiar. Why do I know you? And I'm like, what do you I don't I don't know. Maybe Vitality. That's where everybody around here knows me from.
Speaker 1:And he goes, woah. Jared Clair from Vitality Radio? So then she knew I was famous, which was great. Right? I was
Speaker 2:I set it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, maybe. But anyway, apparently, dad was a big fan of the show and he'd heard it a few times. So that was cool. But then the other thing that happened that was less cool but was kinda cool is we sat down to eat.
Speaker 1:And I was eating my pizza like a normal person and she was eating hers like she had just eaten 10,000 calories and wasn't hungry at all. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, is she trying to impress me, you know, since she's not eating a bunch of pizza or whatever. So I asked her about it.
Speaker 2:Why you should've known I wasn't trying to impress you?
Speaker 1:Well, by that time, you'd met me and knew I was a celebrity, and so I figured maybe you were starting to try to impress me. You know? I didn't know you that. Now I know you don't try to impress anybody, but but back then I wasn't so sure. So anyway, so she's eating like half of a piece of pizza or whatever it is, and so I asked her about it and she says, I can't eat without hurting.
Speaker 1:Every time I eat right now, my stomach hurts so bad. And I said, I can help you with that. And she probably rolled her eyes. I don't remember, but she I don't think she believed me. So anyway, I I don't recall, Jen, do you recall, did we go back to Vitality and I got you a bottle of Back On Track, or did I get you some the next day, or I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I think we got it the next So
Speaker 1:I give you a bottle of Back On Tracked. For those of you who are unfamiliar, haven't heard me talk about it, it's digestive enzymes, spore probiotics, and things like fennel and ginger to help and peppermint to calm and soothe an irritated stomach. And I told her what I tell everybody, most people can feel a difference in one day. And oftentimes in the first dose on back on track. And I don't believe that she believed me, but she decided she was willing to take it, which is, I don't know, maybe a little risky for a guy that you just met gives you a bottle of pills and says take this and see how you feel.
Speaker 1:Right? But it was a sealed bottle, so maybe she thought that was okay.
Speaker 2:People handing me pills and saying take it.
Speaker 1:Well, there is something there is something to be said about that. So anyway, you took it and you told me this is the first meal I've eaten that didn't hurt in a long time. Right?
Speaker 2:Yes. That didn't go straight through me and just stomach and a mess.
Speaker 1:And so at some point she told me the story about her childhood of antibiotic use and ear ear infections and tubes and all this stuff. And I knew at that point that that was probably one of the major factors in her, up to that point, lifelong depression and anxiety because the first thing I ever ask anybody that comes into Vitality that asks about anxiety and depression is, let's talk about your gut. And I find out where they're at with that. As a general rule, I almost never meet anybody that tells me they have chronic depression or anxiety that doesn't also have chronic stomach issues. Whether it's chronic diarrhea or IBS or constipation or cramping or bloating or whatever it is, reflux.
Speaker 1:It's part of the package because of course much of what happens in the brain originates in the gut with the neurotransmitters there.
Speaker 2:Let me also just throw in, I was diagnosed with IBS when my oldest son was probably about three or four, and they wanted to put me back on Prozac for the IBS.
Speaker 1:Yes. One of my favorite prescriptions.
Speaker 2:I didn't because at that point it was so outrageously expensive and I didn't have insurance that I didn't do it, But that was the number one thing they wanted to prescribe for me for IBS.
Speaker 1:And what's crazy is it can help with IBS, antidepressants actually. In fact, think they may have more efficacy gut issues than they do for depression, but that's another story for another day. So as I started I think at that point that she started to think, okay. This guy's not a total quack job. You know, he at least has something that helps, and she really fell in love with Back on Track.
Speaker 1:And so she agreed to let me help her more with supplements. And at one point I said, Jen, if you're ever interested, I believe you can get off of your psych meds. I believe you can get off Lamictal and it was Lexapro at the time. Right, Jen? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And she looked at me with a look of absolute I don't even know, like horror or something. And she said, I'll never be without my meds. And she literally held her hand to her heart, and she looked I I say she was like Gollum, but she says she was more like Frodo. But regardless, she was holding that ring to her chest and saying, my precious, but she was referring to her drugs. And because she had been under the impression that these things were maybe the only reason she was still here.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah. Is that pretty close?
Speaker 2:Yeah. To a large degree.
Speaker 1:So I let that sit because it was very obvious that she wasn't anywhere close to wanting to make that thing happen. Of course, I'm not a doctor, so it wasn't my job to take her off of her meds anyway, but I did believe that it was a possibility and she certainly didn't. But we did start to work on things because she still was dealing with all the bipolar symptoms. The swings were still pretty wild up and down, and I got to witness that firsthand and see what that was like. It was the first she Jen, you're the first person with bipolar symptoms that I spent a lot of time with in my life, so I hadn't really witnessed that before.
Speaker 1:I certainly dealt with anxiety and depression and things like that, but I didn't know what bipolar looked like. In fact, I told you that. I don't even know what this looks like. Rather than telling me to take a hike, how about you let me experience it, and I can make my own decision if I wanna take a hike or not. Right?
Speaker 1:Right. So anyway, as we were seeing that, she decided to let me help. And so we started with the back on track, which is digestive enzymes and probiotics. We put you on additional spore probiotics. At that time, it was just Thrive, which at the time I thought was the best probiotic on the market.
Speaker 1:And then we also put you on omega three fish oil and CBD to help with the anxiety and the pain because you were still dealing with quite a bit of pain at that point too in your back and sciatica as well. And so we had you on that little combination and am I missing something? Did I get all the enzymes, probiotics, omega threes? Magnesium? Magnesium.
Speaker 1:It's my own Vital five and I can't remember it. The only thing I
Speaker 2:Yeah. All the Vital five with the exception of the multivitamin.
Speaker 1:So you were on magnesium glycinate. You were on omega three at at high doses. I believe I put you on about three thousand or even four thousand milligrams of omega three.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I still do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then CBD at I think I think it was thirty milligrams a day or something like that at the time. And then again, back on track and the Just Thrive to make sure that we were getting you plenty of the probiotics because I was convinced and still am convinced that the single biggest physical issue that was going on inside of her body when it came to depression and anxiety was in her gut and that that's the biggest thing that we had to try and address. And it was obvious because she couldn't even eat a meal without, you know, crazy amounts of pain and discomfort.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I had pretty much give I told you. I'd pretty much given up. I just didn't eat because it wasn't worth it to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I ended up in the bathroom. I ended up so sick to my stomach that it I just didn't eat. That was a better option.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you were in a you were in a a tough spot for sure with your health. I mean, pretty pretty pretty messy health picture for sure. And so it was really cool for me to have someone because I I work with people on this stuff all the time, but most of those people aren't I'm not spending a lot of time with outside of the, you know, hour that might they might visit with me in in the store at Vitality. But in this case, Jen and I at this point were were doing all kinds of things together and spending a lot of time together and doing I I mean, I knew what was going on.
Speaker 1:If she didn't feel well, I knew she didn't feel well. If she felt great, I could tell she felt great and so on. So it was it was an interesting experience for me to be able to kinda monitor the progress that she was making. And then Jen decided to do something that I didn't even know about. You wanna talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I had started listening to Vitality Radio. It wasn't a podcast yet, but I listened to the Saturday radio show every week and just listened, you know, him telling me about the products that I was on. And I I don't think had I I hadn't started working at the store yet or had I? That I can't quite Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure. I don't think It
Speaker 2:was really close to that time, but I don't think I had quite started working at the store yet. But I had just listened. I had been in the store enough that I would listen in on your conversations with other people, and I'd heard your your radio show, and you had talked a lot about different studies and that you actually addressed that serotonin deficiency, low serotonin was not had kind of been debunked for depression years early on. Mhmm. And as we know now with the study that just came out a few months ago, even clarifying that even more that it's pretty much 100% untrue, I did pay attention when you talked about that.
Speaker 2:And it just kind of got me wondering and really questioning how much the meds were really helping. Because I was, I was still all over the place. And I was feeling better with my stomach and pain, and I think because of that, I I started to think, well, maybe I could give this a try. I think there was a mix of wanting to prove you wrong to some degree. I was there was a
Speaker 1:little bit of me
Speaker 2:gonna show him. I'm gonna go off these meds, and all hell is gonna break loose, and he's gonna be like, get back on those meds right now. So there I'd I'd think there was a little bit of of that that maybe I was gonna prove you wrong, But I had learned enough and was curious enough about some of the things you had said that I really wanted to to see because the side effects is something we haven't even the side effects from the meds are miserable, and they're their own set of problems. And so just feeling in fact, it was almost more I was numbed out again to a large degree. It just didn't feel good like the opiates felt good, but it was really hard to feel much of anything and that was success as far as the doctors were concerned.
Speaker 2:To not feel anything was was great. Well, you're not sad. You're you can't be happy really either, but that's okay because it's better than being sad. And I didn't like that feeling either. And so I I just decided that I was gonna give it a shot.
Speaker 2:What was it gonna hurt? I I mean, I knew what it what they told me that if I went off, I'd be suicidal again and all the things. But I was I had moments like that and I had survived that once before. I I just for me, I wanted see for myself. So I started weaning myself up.
Speaker 2:And and remember, I'm the I dig into information. I knew my meds well. I I knew that I needed to wean off of them slowly. I knew I I knew how to do it. I didn't go into a doctor because I didn't want the pushback from them that I knew I would get because anytime I'd ever brought up going off or doing this or that, there was always a lot of heavy pushback to not do that.
Speaker 2:And so I made the decision to do it on my own. Started very slowly weaning off. It probably took me a good nine months to completely get off of them, Especially with the mood stabilizer, you have to be really careful. You have to be really careful going on them. You also have to be you have to be careful with both coming off, but the mood stabilizer I knew to be very cautious with.
Speaker 2:So it just started with, you know, a a three quarters of everything, and then I dropped the one to half and left the other one alone for a little while, and just gradually kept cutting it in about down by quarters until I finally weaned off all of it. And I didn't tell you. I was a good probably three months, two, three months into the process before I told you I was doing it. And at that point, I just started thinking I nobody knew I was doing it. None of family, nobody knew.
Speaker 2:And I just thought, you know, maybe I should probably give somebody a heads up that I'm doing this in case, you know, I didn't know what was going to happen for sure. And so I just figured it was probably a good idea to make sure at least somebody knew so that if I lost my mind or went crazy or did some crazy thing, then then there would be an understanding as to what was going on.
Speaker 1:So you told me I was really excited because you know my preference is to have as many people not on pharmaceuticals as possible, especially people I love. But just very quickly, will say that this is a decision, a big decision for anybody because these pharmaceuticals can be extremely dangerous, particularly in the early stages of getting on them or off of them. And so don't take anything that Jen is saying about her personal experience as medical advice on how you should proceed if you choose I to do would highly recommend if you choose to get off your meds that you talk to your doctor or actually a pharmacist is oftentimes a better resource on which way is the best way to titrate down on that. Make sure that you've got someone very close to you paying very close attention to how you're behaving because the highest rate of suicidal and homicidal ideations are in the first two weeks on or two two weeks off of these types of meds. So I wanna just inject that in there for those of you listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I could have been a lot more responsible with but that's my personality. And that's But at the time, that's what I believed was a lot of the manic side of my I was very much the risk taker. I didn't care type.
Speaker 1:And and you you probably should have told me, but I think you did it very responsibly. You did it really, really slow, like slower than most people would.
Speaker 2:I slower than maybe the doctors would.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and that, I think, proves to some degree that you had some fear in, you know, what might happen and also still some faith and belief that maybe these things were helping you. And and so, you know, what happens to you without them? And now I I'm hoping you can remember what you told me once you came off of them and off of them for a few weeks about how you felt off the meds for the first time in twenty plus years.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. You asked me if I noticed a difference or how I felt, and I said I felt better off of them than I ever did in any of the time I was on them. And it was yeah. Well, I just I felt like I could feel things again.
Speaker 2:I was still having some mood swings for sure. That didn't go away like just because I decided I was not by and at that point I I was still I still believed I was bipolar. I just was going to be bipolar without meds. But I felt better than I had in years and realized that they really hadn't been doing nearly as much as I had thought they were doing. But like I said, I I still was cycling through the ups and downs quite quite a bit.
Speaker 2:They weren't nearly as intense as I expected them to be, and but they were definitely still it was still a thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and and from an outsider's perspective who was, you know, watching this firsthand, the the the swings weren't as as wild. They weren't as high and they weren't as low, but they were still definitely there. And and, you know, from a just a symptomology standpoint, she certainly would, you know, still be classified as bipolar, I think, at that point. But I'll I'll always remember, Jen, one of the things that you told me, the word you used that I thought was really, really interesting, you said, this is the most clear I've felt Yeah.
Speaker 1:In as long as I can remember. You know, clear headed, like you could think I could without a cloud in your head. And I thought that was really, really cool because one of the things that I always say on Vitality Radio, I say it often, so you've probably heard it already and I apologize, but maybe there's a new listener that needs to hear it. And that is that many of the issues with pharmaceuticals don't come in the first few months or sometimes even the first few years that we're on them. And the results and also the side effects oftentimes stack on top of each other year after year after year.
Speaker 1:And you don't recognize that you're having a side effect from a drug that you started three years ago if the side effect comes three years later. And I think in your case, Jen, you were on them so long, you just literally had forgotten what it felt like to not be on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think
Speaker 1:Sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Oh, no. I just said that's no. I was just agreeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then you get off of them and it's like, oh, wait a minute. I can feel like this, you know, and and you weren't better, but you were better than you had been. Right? Right.
Speaker 1:So then the question is why was she better than she had been? And and again, I'll I'll throw my opinion in here, and that is that we had been spending at that point at least a year, I think, working on your gut. Is that about the time frame?
Speaker 2:Yeah. We were a good year.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Year or so on working on her gut, a year or so on getting, you know, all of the levels topped off, to speak. Getting her magnesium level where it needed to be, getting her omega three level where it needed to be, balancing things with things like CBD. And also we had been working on her pain, so on top of the CBD at that by that point we had added Curamed, which is my favorite form of turmeric. And so and of course, chronic pain can certainly lead to worse depression, anxiety, things like that, sleeplessness.
Speaker 1:So we've been spending time in the background rebuilding your system. And not only that, but because you could eat now, you were getting nutrition from your food in a at a much higher level than you had previously. But what's really interesting, we talked about this before we decided to record this show, is that at that point, I I don't think your diet was particularly clean yet. You know? No.
Speaker 1:Still relatively standard American diet, but you were able to eat it and you were able to at least get the nutrients that were in there absorbed and assimilated, you know, on a level that you hadn't been before where everything was you know, rushing right through you. So now we have we're we're a year and a half. By the time you actually weaned yourself all the way off, probably a year and a half into our relationship, maybe getting close to two years. Is that about right?
Speaker 2:I think mark's pretty
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:Pretty
Speaker 1:And one thing that's interesting is, so you you spent a little bit of time talking about this, you had you had really done a deep dive into bipolar to try and figure out what it meant. And I think to some degree to validate your symptoms and so now you had kind of an excuse as to why
Speaker 2:Oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:Everything swung.
Speaker 2:And my brain likes things to make sense and all these feelings in the way I would be this way one day and this way another day, and it just didn't make sense. And so then with the diagnosis, it yeah. Things made sense and and it yeah. It was a validation. And then it also kind of becomes an excuse to a degree because you're like, well, that's just how my brain works.
Speaker 2:I can't really help that. So Mhmm. You kinda start to I we talk in our workshop about, you know, you you start doing these thing you if you have a problem, then you can blame that problem for why it's not me that they don't love, it's not me that's not good enough, it's because of this problem that that all of these other things are happening. And that's that's I think one of the reasons people don't want to give up. They become that diagnosis and they don't want to give it up or consider giving it up because it's kind of an out.
Speaker 2:And I've realized at least for me, and I just I don't know I've watched this enough over the years that we all like that out. It's not me personally that's that something's wrong with. I have this thing, and that's what makes me the way I am.
Speaker 1:Right. And and then so then you adopt that as part of your persona, you know, your actual identity, and and then that just, you know, locks the cage that you that you found yourself in with that diagnosis. So then at this point, the the the couple of things that I wanna just kinda So we're about a half a year and a half into fixing your gut. We're working on fixing your inflammation and pain. It's important to understand that, you know, the inflammation is is systemic, so even though you might feel it in your back or your knee, you can have it throughout your body and it can create a lot of issues in your brain as well.
Speaker 1:So we were working on all of those things. We'd been filling the body with the nutrition that we needed to from a supplemental standpoint. And the reason I bring that up is not because I'm the guy that sells supplements for a living and just wants you to fix everything with vitamins and minerals and herbs. I would love to help you fix everything with vitamins, minerals, and herbs, but the point is there's real power in just simply giving the body the raw materials it needs to be able to do what it's supposed to do in the first place, and that's all we've done at this point. But at this point, now we have a kinda different version of Jen in terms of mindset because now she's thinking, I can I can do this?
Speaker 1:I can get off the meds. I can feel better off the meds than I did on the meds. And then, know, I'll let you explain it in your own words. What where were you at from a mindset point there in terms of maybe where you could get from that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's an interesting question because my mindset has never been one to be super hopeful of future things.
Speaker 1:Correct. I can vouch for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I locked that down pretty hard. But I did. I started to think that maybe I didn't have to well I was off the meds, so I realized that I could do that, and I wasn't functioning any worse off of them. In fact, I felt better in a lot of ways, and yes, much more clear minded.
Speaker 2:And that maybe there were some other things out there that I was not yet aware of that could take it even further. So I was definitely becoming a lot more open to then alternative pathways to expand on the supplementation and things like that.
Speaker 1:Alright. So then I was asked to speak at an event called Be Healthy Utah, and I spoke to a large crowd of almost nine people and Yep. Yeah. Jen was one of them. Right?
Speaker 1:And there was this guy, this goofy guy in the back of the room that kept laughing and smiling at all the brilliant things I was saying. And I but then he kept walking out and walking back in and I was like, who is this guy? So I had to go meet him. So after I was done speaking, we went and met this guy and his name was Lamont Wilcox. Now if you're a regular listener to the show, you've heard that name because I've mentioned him fairly regularly and he developed a program called NAAP, Neuro Auto Associative Programming, primarily to help members of his own family get out of deep and chronic depression and anxiety that they had been dealing with.
Speaker 1:And then he started teaching it to people and sharing it with people and he told us some things that were well, actually, was kinda interesting. He told us a bunch of stuff, but the woman that was with him who was a client of his, that was helping him at his little booth that he was manning, was telling us some things that seemed too good to be true, especially to you. Right, Jen?
Speaker 2:Yes. She claimed she claimed that her daughter had been who had was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which was one of the personality disorders that I had been diagnosed with and been told that tends to go hand in hand with bipolar. And I'll tell you, don't if you if don't ever read up on that. That's the most depressing diagnosis you can ever imagine getting. But she had told me that her daughter who had dealt with borderline personality disorder her whole life was cured by Lamont in one session.
Speaker 2:And I won't I'll I'll refrain from saying out loud what went through my head. I just thought there's I don't believe it. There's just no way. Because that was another one. Like, the bipolar made a little bit, but knowing what I knew about borderline personality disorder, just thought there's that's not even possible.
Speaker 2:So I was still stuck in some of the mindset that some of this stuff was was not really you you know, you still were stuck with it to a degree.
Speaker 1:Right. So I decided that this was intriguing. This NAEP thing, I didn't know anything about it. And in my arrogance, having dealt with anxiety or depression before, I didn't even necessarily think I needed it. And what was interesting was, I mean, I really thought that this was for people that had anxiety and depression and BPD and bipolar and things like that.
Speaker 1:But I also knew that Jen wasn't gonna do it unless I did it, so I signed us up. I signed us both up to go visit with Lamont. And I I can't remember, did I go first or did you go first?
Speaker 2:You went Okay.
Speaker 1:I spent ten hours with this guy because we both really like to talk. And he taught me NAEP and it was fascinating to me. I thought it was really, really cool. But it was, you know, kinda like drinking out of a fire hose, so I had a hard time grabbing all of the concepts. I I made a bunch of notes and I took a picture of the whiteboard that he had scribbled all his notes on and things like that and tried to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Interestingly enough, I had been procrastinating making this show a podcast for almost five years at that point and I told him that. And he, you know, he went through it with me a little bit and and I said, you know, that is one place that I'd really like to get unstuck is the podcast. And I'm not exactly sure looking back on it almost three years now. I'm not exactly sure what it was that triggered things, but I recognized from what he had taught me that I could get past that stumbling block, which really was a it was a fear thing as, you know, maybe maybe my local radio show isn't good enough to be an international podcast where everybody can listen to it. And I had these little, you know, kinda deep seated, I think unconscious to a large degree fears about it.
Speaker 1:And two and a half months after I met with Lamont, I had a podcast. It was launched and going, and there's the reason you're listening right now is because of that visit with Lamont, at least that was the catalyst that got me past my procrastination of five years. And who's to say I wouldn't have procrastinated another two or three? I don't know. But then Jen went in and had a visit with Lamont, and and we talked about it afterwards.
Speaker 1:And both of us felt like there was some really good stuff there, but we didn't really either one of us, besides what I did with it with the podcast, I don't think either of us were, I don't know, confident enough or felt like we understood it well enough to do a lot with it. You can, you know, say how you felt about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I it was interesting. There was definitely things that caught my attention, but I mentally, I was not really in the right place to see how it applied or how I could really use it at that point in time to to make any significant difference. There was yeah. There were a few things that I latched onto and thought were interesting, but that was about the extent of it for me.
Speaker 1:And then I think about six months later ish, Lamont or actually, you came to me, Jen. We were having a conversation, and you said, you know, I wish I could go back and do that thing with Lamont again because I think I'm actually ready now. Like, I could use that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. In fact, it was it was just not too long. We were only a couple months into COVID, and my anxiety was getting worse in some ways. I felt the depression stuff, I wasn't as bad, I don't think. I think that had been improving a little bit, but the anxiety was kicking up a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously, I think everybody at that point was having a lot of anxiety. Nobody knew what was going on, and and there was all this unknown stress happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, that was about six months later that I said to you, yeah, exactly that. I would like to do that again because I think I'm ready for it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then interestingly enough, I think it was a few weeks after that, Lamont called me and said, hey, Jared. I'm doing a group session out in Bountiful. Do you wanna join? And I said, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep. Can Jen come? And he said, yeah. So he invited us both. We went to this session.
Speaker 1:It's the first time he'd done or maybe the second time he'd done a group session because he was doing all one on one stuff like he did with us before and he really just wanted our feedback. You know, how's the group session versus the one on one? Well, hearing it for a second time and being I think I I I I'm speaking for myself, Jen. You can say if you if if this is how you felt, but I think you were you were more ready because I think that we had continued to make progress, you know, with your help overall. And I think you were becoming more balanced emotionally and mentally at that point anyway.
Speaker 1:And maybe, I don't know, maybe you had a little more confidence that you could take a next step. Is that kinda where you were at?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think very accurate. Yeah. I do I I was feeling better as far as just overall health goes, that clearness. I I yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize how foggy my head was. And so I was just even a little farther out, you know, from having that gone. So being able to look forward and see or look back and see the progress I'd made and realize you know I still had quite a ways to go, but here was another option that could possibly help get me there beyond what supplements could do.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So we did this next event, this group session with Lamont, and both of us really kinda caught fire and said, oh, we can we can do something with this, and really started getting into it. And then I thought it was really interesting because you did with NAEP and and, you know, neurology and digging yourself out of a deep hole, you did that research the same way as you did the bipolar research, you know, however many years prior, ten years prior or whatever it was. And you were reading books by, you know, Viktor Frankl. I think you'd already read that one, but you can name some of the books that you started reading and some of the stuff you started digging into.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started digging into oh, man. Now my brain's gonna go blank. Edith? And Edith Eggers was one.
Speaker 2:Those were more like stories of people that overcame like these horrendous events to get past them. So that was more of the story end. And then I started discovering more on the science, and Joe Dispenza, a lot of what Lamont teaches comes from Joe Dispenza's work. So I started digging into that a little more. We discovered Andrew Huberman on Joe Rogan of all places.
Speaker 2:And so I started and he happened to be starting his own podcast not too long after that. There's a book called The Molecule of More that is all about dopamine. I can't remember the author right now off the top of my head. Another book called How Emotions Are Made. I everything from the detailed neuroscience to just the stories of Holocaust survivors and and how they overcame the stuff they had to overcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I dove I dove pretty deep. Their books were arriving constantly.
Speaker 1:I I would guess, and I don't think this is an exaggeration. You probably have between thirty and forty books on neuroscience and and and and just success stories of people getting out of hellish nightmare lives. You know, we we The
Speaker 2:anatomy sorry. The Anatomy of Peace is another one that had a huge impact for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeonmi Park.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The Girl With Seven Names is an amazing book that that we discovered together that was fantastic. So there's and and it's so interesting because now we're gonna talk a little bit about NAAP, and one of the things that we discuss in NAAP and and we can't do that we can't go deep on this podcast because it's hours of information. But we talk about something called the three powers, and if you're a regular listener, you may have heard me mention it before. It's my favorite part of what I learned from Lamont. And it's basically what your focus is and what the meaning is behind that focus and what attempt you're willing to make to achieve whatever the goal is that that focus holds for you.
Speaker 1:Those are your three powers, meaning those are the things that you have control over because you can't control the weather, can't control your kids, you can't control your spouse, you can't control politics. You don't have a whole lot of control about anything in this life. But you do have control about where you place your focus. And this is interesting thing because, Jen, when you were diagnosed with bipolar, you put your focus on cementing that belief that you have bipolar and that that's how you'll always be. And when you dug yourself out of bipolar or started to dig yourself out of bipolar and you learned what you learned with NAEP, you'd put your focus on how you could not have bipolar anymore.
Speaker 1:And it's a really, really interesting kinda juxtaposition because both things worked. Right? Where you put your focus and the meaning behind that focus and the attempts you made got you what you wanted. You wanted to solidify the diagnosis of bipolar, and then you wanted to get rid of the diagnosis of bipolar, and you did both of them successfully. And there's real power in that story alone because you proved yourself right twice on both sides of that equation.
Speaker 2:Yep. Right? Yep. I did.
Speaker 1:Which is amazing because both sides can't be right, can they? But in Apparently. In perception, they can.
Speaker 2:Ception, they can.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was just a couple episodes that I said I've given up on right and wrong because it's all a matter of perception. Well, you were right that you had bipolar because you proved it. And then you were right that you didn't have to have bipolar anymore because you've also proven that. And so one another takeaway for me from this episode, and and thank you for listening. It's been longer than our typical episodes.
Speaker 1:I think it's an amazing story because it's one of real perseverance and and a real desire to figure out eventually after forty years of trial and error with things, or pretty close to that anyway, how to, essentially rescue yourself. Because while I've played a role in this, certainly with the supplementation and maybe with the belief of saying, hey, believe it or not, you can do this, you've done the work and you've done the study and the research, you've spent more time studying neuroscience than I have by 10 to one probably. You've been willing to fight that fight to do what's best for you and for your kids and really for everybody that knows you. I think it's just a beautiful story. So the takeaway here I believe is this, Where you put your focus is where your brain, where your reticular activating system will try to prove you right.
Speaker 1:Whether what you're focused on is right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Whether you're on the, you know, so called left side of the aisle or the so called right side of the aisle, whether you're religious or you're an atheist or an agnostic, whatever it is, where we place our focus is where our brain wants to literally go in from a neuroscientific standpoint and prove that what we already believe is true. It's called confirmation bias, and we had a lot of it during COVID. We all were shoved into our own little echo chambers, and we all just reiterated what everybody else in the echo chamber was reiterating. And it was great because we got patted on the back every time we posted a meme about the idiots in the other echo chamber.
Speaker 1:And that is a sad reality, I guess, of the human brain. But on the other side, it's a amazing blessing because if we can put our focus on getting where we really want to be, we can get where we really want to be, and Jen is living proof of that. So let let if if you don't mind, Jen, talk a little bit about some of the things that you've learned in NAEP that you feel have really helped you get past those steps because I wanna I wanna take the listener back just a little bit. Remember that when we met Lamont and we first started learning about this and all the way six months into COVID, she was still dealing with the kind of typical, not as harsh, but typical ups and downs that are associated with bipolar diagnosis. Jen, if you wouldn't mind now sharing just a little bit about your experience with NAEP that we've learned from Lamont and what you've since learned from all of these resources that you've collected.
Speaker 1:What do you feel are some of the key things that have helped you get to the place that you're at now?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's that's kind of a big question because there's
Speaker 1:We only have two hours left. Just just kidding. Just kidding. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's there's a lot that I could cover in that. You just went over the three powers, which is huge. I've used that one a lot. I've taught it to my kids, and I've seen them use it successfully. So the three powers is big and understanding how the reticular activating system works that we what we focus on is what we're going to find.
Speaker 2:The way that's in the science end of things, the way that that's programmed is really fascinating to me. And the fact that it's going to be programmed one way or another, and once you become aware of it, you have a lot of control over what goes into that by using those three powers. Perception has been a game changer for me, recognizing that nobody we all have a different perception. Nobody's going to see things a 100% the same way. Even if we experience the same thing, we're all going to have a different viewpoint.
Speaker 2:And that a lot of that comes from past experience. I would say the majority of what most of us perceive is based off of past experiences. There's not right or wrong per se, because what's right to me may not may be wrong to somebody else and vice versa. And then just the fact that you get to choose how you want to respond to things. You really do.
Speaker 2:For the majority of my life with the bipolar diagnosis, I felt like I had no control over my emotions, my thoughts, any of it. That that was all beyond my control. And why the subconscious to some degree does run automatically and does its own thing, you can start to become aware of of those programs that are running in it. And then you do get to start making more choices on how you want how you choose to view the world, how you choose to respond to people or not respond to people. That was a huge game changer for me is recognizing that I had a lot more choice in my life, that I wasn't as stuck as I believed I was, and then just questioning my beliefs.
Speaker 2:I mean, this was this is a pretty big belief to shift, to go from believing that I'm bipolar, an addict, and will always be on medication to some in some form to not being on any meds, believing that I have symptoms that fall into a diagnosis they call bipolar, but I am not bipolar and that I have beat my addiction. I'm twelve years clean as of last month with no relapse, which when I got out of rehab, they told me I had a ninety percent chance of being back there within six months. So there's a lot of things I believed in the past that I no longer believe. And I was as convinced, like you said, of them back then as I am now that I'm none of those things. So our beliefs are we just need to question them all the time, even the ones that we think we're a 100% right about because ten years ago, I was a 100% right that I was bipolar, and I and that would never change.
Speaker 2:So asking is it and I know you've brought this up on your show before. Asking yourself, is it true? Because the truth will hold up. If it's not, then you can maybe at least if you're asking the questions, you're opening yourself up to other ideas and and pathways that you can possibly take. If it is true, then that's just going to be confirmed to you even more so.
Speaker 2:And then you just move on to the next belief that you have. And and is does it serve me? That's the other big question I ask myself. Is this serving me in this moment to think or feel the things that that I'm doing? And so in a nutshell, there's so many other things.
Speaker 2:But I would say those are kind of the the big ones that I use on a regular basis in my life every day and with my kids.
Speaker 1:Alright. Thank you for sharing that. There's so much in the NAEP stuff that we've learned. There's so much in the neurology of all this, but because of the short time that we have, I think that we've covered probably as much as we can. The let let me let me state a couple of things that I've that I've seen from my perception because again, we're all dealing with our own perceptions here.
Speaker 1:But from the outside looking in, one of the reasons that I wanted to share this story, and again, this wasn't my idea. My idea came a couple of years ago when I asked Jen if she would write me a letter answering a couple of questions, and that became my episode about mental health labels. But this time, Jen decided that she wanted to tell her story, and I was so excited to hear that because I know that it's these types of stories that really get us to the point where maybe we can start to believe that we can do that too. If she could do it, you know, we could do it. One of the things that Lamont talks a lot about is a guy named Captain Gerald Coffey and he lived seven years in the Hanoi Hilton as a prisoner of war in Vietnam and his story is horrific in terms of what he went through.
Speaker 1:But the fact that he got out of it and came back home and reunited with his family and then went on the speaking circuit to tell everybody how he did it is such a powerful story and he used those three powers that we talk about so beautifully through that. And so, anyway, what I've seen with you, Jen, is I have seen someone who I would say I could fairly confidently classify as nearly feeling hopeless in life. Like you were just gonna be stuck in all the areas that you were stuck and there frankly wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. To someone who has found hope in maybe not every area of life, but you found hope in ways that I don't think you ever believed that you could before. And there's so much overwhelm.
Speaker 1:When I started the Vitality Radio listeners community, one of the first things that somebody said to me in there was, I just don't know where to start. I've recently discovered that I've been doing it all wrong, is what she said. I've been doing it all wrong. You know, I'm using the wrong and now I'm now elaborating on a conversation that I had with her. I'm using the long laundry detergent.
Speaker 1:I'm feeding my kids the wrong cereal. I'm, you know, I'm doing I'm I'm giving them the wrong medications for these things when I could have been doing these things naturally, and there's all this stuff. And I don't know where to start, but I know that I I gotta start somewhere. And and overwhelm is a is an amazing feeling to just damn us from
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Doing anything. Right? If we get into that fight or flight mode and and then we end up freezing because we don't know where to start. And what I think is so powerful about your story is that you really were able to take baby steps kinda through the whole process. You know, maybe the first baby step being that you took a probiotic and digestive enzyme back on track and your stomach stopped hurting.
Speaker 1:So now it's like, okay. Well, that worked. Maybe something else can work. Right? And so then we move to the next supplement, and that seemed to help, so maybe the next supplement can help, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:And and as you've gone through this, you've found newer and better things that have helped, but you've also found more belief that these things could help in the first place, that you could actually get results and you could start to feel better than you've ever felt before. So if you're listening out there and you're thinking, okay, well, yeah, she can do it, but I don't I can't do it. I don't know where to start. Just start. There are things available to you right now that you can do that don't even cost anything.
Speaker 1:I've done two episodes so far, and I'll do a third one here in a couple of weeks. 10 cheaper free things that you can do to improve your health today. Go back to those episodes, and I'll give you things that don't cost anything that can help you feel better physically, mentally, and emotionally. This really works. These things really work.
Speaker 1:And if you're interested in what we're doing with NAAP at what we call Emotional Vitality, where we teach it in the way that we teach it, then you can actually join us online if you're not local. You can join us through Zoom. We also record the workshops that we do and you can actually come and attend them if you live nearby. We do them currently on Wednesday nights. Most Wednesday nights we're doing these workshops.
Speaker 1:And if you call Vitality at (801) 292-6662, you can ask for a schedule of the workshops. They'll be on our calendar there so anybody that can answer that answers can tell you that. And then you could also reach out directly to me if you want jaredsaint on Instagram or any of the other places on Facebook or Instagram. You can email us at infovitalitynutrition dot net. But if you're feeling like if you're feeling inspired by the story that Jen has just shared with you, and it inspires me so much, I can't tell you how much better person I am and how much more mentally strong and healthy that I feel being blessed to have gone through this with her and watched her progress and and get through these things that she thought were insurmountable.
Speaker 1:It's one of the greatest things about living the life that I live is that I have this amazing blessing to work with people that are amazing like Jen and be a small part in helping them figure out how to find the health and wellness that not only they desire but that they truly deserve and you deserve it too. And I know you're listening to Vitality Radio. For one primary reason, it's not because of how darn funny I am. That might be part of it. Hopefully it is.
Speaker 1:But because you want to be healthier. You want to live a healthier and more vital life. That's what Vitality Radio's about. And so having these stories on here I think are is very helpful. We had a little connection issue, so I lost Jen.
Speaker 1:She's no longer with me, at least on the radio, but she did just she did just sneak into the studio. We were recording in two separate rooms in the same house because it sounds better. So Jen, come on in. Come on in. Let's wrap this thing up.
Speaker 1:We'll use the same mic. Thank you so much for sharing this, honey. I really appreciate it. I hope that those of you listening in the audience are better for the ninety minutes that we've kept you here because I feel like this story and stories like it need to be heard. They need to be shared because there's real value and power in it.
Speaker 1:Jen, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. I just wanted to add sorry. In the connection loss, was going to add in there. And we've had this conversation many times. You were saying, you know, if you think that this is only something that applies to me or other people, that's just not true.
Speaker 2:I if I had heard this story years ago, I probably would have thought the same thing. But in learning the NAAP stuff and talking about this, the beautiful thing about all of this is that it's in all of us. It's innate in every one of us, and we're all capable of of doing it. We just have to set our decide that's what we want to do. It was been a slow process.
Speaker 2:It didn't happen overnight. I I still struggle at times with certain things. It's just it doesn't affect affect my life in the same way that it used to. And so in sharing my story, the biggest reason I do that is just to let other people know that it can be different. It there is hope.
Speaker 2:It can change. You don't have to be stuck. And anything from mental health to addiction, all of it, it it you can change. Just start small. Do what you can.
Speaker 2:And like Jared said, there's there's little things. We didn't even get into diet. Diet has become a huge player in my life too, and I eat very differently than what I did when I met him. And I think that has continued to make improvements in physically and and mentally for me. So I just, yeah, my hope in sharing this is just to let let other people know that you can do it too.
Speaker 2:If I've been there, I've been as low as you can get. I've I've had the suicide attempts. I've I've thought there was no way out of it. And I'm in a completely nothing's permanent. It it does change.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it takes a lot longer than we want it to, but it does change.
Speaker 1:Yep. And now, not jokingly, you can understand what I see in this amazing woman. So this has been so fun. I've really enjoyed it. Please, if you feel stuck in any of these areas, whether it's your physical health, mental health, stay tuned to Vitality Radio.
Speaker 1:We're gonna continue to bring you as much valid information as we possibly can to help you. And if you have very specific questions or concerns, reach out. That's it's why I do what I do. It's why we do at Vitality what we do. Jen works there with me as well now, and she also coaches the Emotional Vitality with me.
Speaker 1:So we're here for you as much as we possibly can be. Like I said, give us a call at (801) 292-6662 regardless of where you're at listening or jump online and join the Facebook, listeners community. The link for that is in the, description of the show. And if you jump in there, Jen's in there, I'm in there, and we're both happy to answer questions, and help guide you in the directions that we can to help you find and live your very most vital life. Thank you so much for listening to us.
Speaker 1:This has been Jen and Jared on Vitality Radio.
Speaker 3:You've been listening to the Vitality Radio Podcast. Enjoy your week. In the meantime, Jared will be feverishly searching for the latest nutrition info to educate you on and wading into of propaganda to help steer you through it. Vitality Radio is researched and written by Jared Clair. Our awesome music is by Brian Bob Young.
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Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated this podcast. This podcast is provided with the understanding that information shared is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. This podcast is not a substitute for care by a medical professional. Thank you.