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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take
a moment, finding grounding in this
moment, trusting in the process.
The old story, trusting in the process.
Everyone's eyes rolling back in
their head in this very moment.
Breathing in and breathing out.
The journey is long and yet the
first step is the invitation.
Breathing in and breathing out.
Moving through your body,
listening to your heart.
And checking in with your spirit.
It's in this moment, as we trust
the process, that we listen
to what's becoming amplified.
Is it our thoughts?
Is it our intuition?
And as you breathe in and breathe
out, what are you willing to allow?
What are the tools?
What is the evidence?
that's showing that you are
ascending, that you are transforming,
and that you are changing.
Taking one breath in, and one breath
out, allow yourself to settle,
as you listen to your process,
your journey, and your tools.
Finding centering and opening
your eyes when you feel called.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experience.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today, we revisit three weeks
later in a beautiful state.
I'm receiving Travis.
It's fantastic.
How are you, Dr.
Ryan?
How am I?
I'm amazing.
Especially seeing you and
hearing where you're at.
Thank you.
We've talked a little
bit before jumping on.
We talked about the science.
We talked about your urges.
We talked about all the things and just
to bring us up to speed is three weeks
ago we met again and we reconnected.
Which I want to say was life saving.
Like I, it's, it's, it's amazing how
this, the medicine and how this all
works as a oneness, because, I hadn't
talked to you in two years and I was
suicidal, I was in my bed, it was two
o'clock something in the morning, I just
listened to a podcast from Gary Brekka,
10X Health on, doing this type of work.
With all right.
Help me out there.
What do you call it?
It's like, okay,
I'll restart.
No, no, I'm a guy.
I'm, I don't want to do a show.
And we're not editing any of this.
What is it called that we're doing?
So, so on Gary Brekka, yes.
I was looking at
addiction on psychedelics.
It was a Navy seal.
He was in seal 11, which is
like right above seal team six.
And I'm just like, Oh my God, this is it.
And literally.
Three hours before I was getting
ready to swipe a credit card for
an 8, 500 online program, which
everyone rolled their eyes at with me.
And I guess when you're
desperate, you're desperate.
But it was so weird because literally when
she went to swipe it, she said, they just
shut my computers down like a minute ago.
Can we do it in the morning?
And somehow I listened to that podcast and
I reached out to you and I was like, well,
I'm either going to re I'm either gonna go
with her or go with this program because
I'm so desperate, you know, because last
time was a couple months to be able to
get a hold of you because you're so busy
with your work, but you had responded.
It was 6 30 in the morning.
You'd already responded.
I was like, Oh, wait a second.
So the way this works energetically and
worldly and in one way is mind blowing.
So yeah, it's a surrender
experiment, isn't it?
So Travis, we were talking
and I'm really excited.
Three weeks ago, we connected two weeks
ago, you had a huge experience that
we processed and we're integrating.
We're meeting now through our integration.
You're on the precipice of doing
another ceremony in a week.
You've been doing some micro dosing.
But what alarmed me and was super
exciting is tell me about what
surprised you about the science.
What did you learn when you
walked out after your first
experience with that band?
Yes.
So through my first experience, I asked
my spiritual guide once, you know, I got
to the, my safe place, you know, cause
recording, I'm big in recording film, but
that's kind of sacrilegious in this place.
You don't really record the, the
specialty of the sacred event
because you kind of got to earn
your way to get there, I guess.
But I did ask permission to keep my
whoop strap on and the whoop strap
records your heart rate valuable.
It also records your stress, your stress
levels, and it records your BPM like
beats per minute when you're working out.
And during this experience,
there was times where I
thought, I thought I was dying.
I mean, I'm standing there,
I'm up, I'm holding myself like
this, and I'm thinking I'm dying.
And I'm telling my spiritual
guide I'm dying, and he's just
looking at me in a calm, loving
way, and walking me through it.
So I'm thinking that my heart, You
know, in my, in my workout brain, I'm
thinking I'm going to see these crazy
spikes and it's going to be some like
crazy, like scientific spike of like,
I went on this experience and it went
through the roof and then I went down.
I'm thinking this is going to
be the craziest data to look at.
And then I look at it and
it's just this flat line.
And I never, I never got over
a hundred BPM beats per minute.
The entire time it was like I
mean, I I think I averaged like 84.
I mean at sleep.
I'm at 64 I mean when you're peeing you're
at 80 you're at 80 90 So that and then it
also measures your stress level and the
stress level was at low the entire time
The only time I broke a hundred Is when
the spiritual guide walked me out of the
safe room and his walk was walking me back
to my mom to take me Home, I got to 120.
That was it You And then the
restorative sleep, which also
the whoop strap monitors.
And that's like, so you can sleep
for eight hours, but how much of that
time are you actually getting healed?
Usually I average between 24
to 30, which is not great.
The night after my experience, it
was at 54, which is over double.
So, I mean, it, obviously, it completely
reset my nervous system, it completely,
it did something that I, it did
something that modern medicine, and
something that I could never do on my
own, like, this is, this is above the
human, Like, you gotta realize it's
above human, it's above our thought,
it's above our, even our brain power.
Like, this is way above us.
This is out there.
This is, this is universal.
This isn't earthly.
It isn't earthly.
And so now walking three weeks ago
reaching out two weeks ago, having the
experience what are you acknowledging
about your patterns in your life?
You talk about awareness and being
aware, how is it being aware of
so many things at so much time?
It's amazing.
Yeah, so I still have the cravings,
I'm still drinking, but I haven't
pulled a drunk, which is crazy.
I went to some really hard events,
my dad's best friend who was like my
uncle, he passed away, my dog passed
away, like, but I went to these events
and usually I would just have to get
slaughterly drunk, or at least, I would,
if I didn't get slaughterly drunk, my
mom would have to be like, have you been
drinking, have you been, you know, like,
she would have to, you could tell I let
her down and there was none of that.
Like it was totally flawless.
It was perfect.
I'm aware of when I'm gonna
step on my dick Like I'm
aware like oh god, here we go.
Like before I would just be
like, okay, I'm in the moment
I have my craving i'm drinking.
I don't care about the next three hours.
I don't care about this evening I don't
care about but now i'm like, you know, I
take that drink i'm like well Who, who,
who will I not be able to help, like,
if three hours from now if someone calls
and I have to drive, I can't drive,
like, you know, or, you know, how am I
going to be tomorrow, or am I picking
up this, anyway, so, I'm still You're
feeling a foresight, is what I'm hearing.
You're, you're actually, your awareness
is now, not only on yourself, Travis,
but on the foresight of the future.
Yeah, like consequences, I
guess, which I never had that.
Never.
No, and, and I mean, I, and I don't
mind saying this on air, but I had a
lot, I had a lot of health concerns,
you know I remember one of the things
I kept talking about is, you know, I
need, I got to get my test for cancer.
I haven't, you know, you know, when you're
drunk, you have a lot of unsafe sex.
So I wanted to get tested for
STDs, HIV, and all that shit.
When I woke, that's been on my mind.
I couldn't get out of my mind.
Cause I was like, one of the
things I, it's like, I didn't think
I was had anything, but it was
just, I was trying to figure out
what the medicine was telling me.
And it was more like, You're
not going and taking care of it
because it makes you nervous.
You're not addressing these little things.
It's not about you were sick.
It was about go out and be uncomfortable.
Take the stupid ass test, acknowledge it.
Now you're being responsible because you
would like to have a relationship where
you don't want to go into a relationship.
Having these dark feelings that you
could be hurting the next person.
So I went and got my HIV test.
I went and got all that shit.
Everything was negative.
But I mean, I was puking.
I did it myself.
I went and bought all
of it and did it myself.
I mean, I was literally
like, almost puking.
I did it yesterday morning.
I wanted to go get drunk, but
I was like, well, let me get
drunk before I do the test.
But then The fuck if it is when I
read the test if I would have drank
anything had any alcohol Then you can't
do the test because like it was like
everything that I was gonna do what
a fuck even smoking weed I was gonna
get stoned before I did it, but I was
like, no, I gotta read directions So
let me but and it said even if you
smoke, you can't take the damn test.
So like even drinking water.
So anyways But this is
you feeling your feelings.
This isn't anyways, this is radical.
This is you looking at some of the
toughest shit, STIs or your own
diagnoses, reaching out to doctors.
And what you're acknowledging isn't just
awareness, and I'm really humbled by this.
You're feeling shit that you've
never felt before without
depressing alcohol or cannabis.
Is that accurate?
No, it's more that I'm actually
dealing with it before I just kept,
you know, I drink the alcohol and
then I forget about it and you know,
you can't see me, you can't see
me, you know, that bullshit bitch.
I could see you.
And so can everyone else.
It was just a fact of instead of
me just going over it in my head.
Is this, is this right?
Is this right?
And then, and then, no, get the hell up.
I mean, I, I literally was 830 in
the morning, 845 in the morning.
I knew when Walgreens woke up, I got up,
I threw my clothes in and take a shower.
I just drove straight to the fricking
store, bought everything I was
supposed to get, lined it all up.
As I was puking, I almost didn't do it.
Cause I was like shaking so bad
and I was like, well, I need a
drink cause I'm shaking so bad.
I'm like, no, I don't need shit.
Just went through it, got it done.
And now I feel that's 50 percent of it.
Now I just got to get the cancer, you
know, go in and get all that checked.
And yeah, that's impressive.
You talked to me a little
bit about your regimen.
You, you moved into doing
a little MMA fighting and
shifting into some gym workout.
What's the motivation?
So.
Dr.
Ryan, I mean, before I went with
the spiritual advisor, you kind of
gave me a little, you know, you, you
do have a degree in psychology, so
that's really helpful, and you kind
of talked to me about what makes me,
what centers me, like, you, you, you
did a lot of very good prep before, you
know, you sent me off, which, without
your preparation, I, I wouldn't have,
how do I say, if the person can't
pack for the journey, they're
probably going to die on it.
I love that.
That's fucking brilliant.
You, you, you, you, you packed
my bags and I didn't even
know you were packing my bags.
And so when I was on the journey, it
was like, I'm starving and I opened
up and there was a thing, a trail mix.
And then, oh my god, I'm thirsty and I
went up and there's a bottle of hydrogen.
Like, like you did all that.
And so Wait, we need
to plug hydrogen water.
This episode is being
sponsored by hydrogen water.
Hydrogen water.
Yeah, it's Echo3.
Gary Breka or echo three water, hydrogen
water, and it'll save your life.
But we're packing to your point.
And what did you learn about yourself?
So that's where the working out came in.
So I was working out.
So the biggest thing was
dropping my ego, you know?
So I was, you know, I wore sunglasses.
I try to act like a, you know,
Hollywood stud man at the gym,
even though, you know, I'm going
through all this living with my mom,
driving her car, like me, who am I?
Shut the hell up.
Be humble.
So I started going back.
So let's just say I started
working out without sunglasses on.
And it's amazing.
It's like, Oh my God, I'm president.
People smile at me.
I can pay.
I, you know, and I'm not putting
on a show, like I'm just chilling.
So I worked after my experience.
I stayed at, you know,
kind of my shitty gym.
I don't want to call it shitty.
Just, it wasn't the high profile,
big ego gym, which I really like.
Cause my office is there and I just.
Anyways, worked out there, kind of
just got back there, but the last,
the last five days I worked out four.
And when I was there, when I walked in
the door, I was, I, I, I, I, you just
told me just get, I don't give a shit.
If you just walk in the door, sit
down and leave, just walk in the door.
Right.
I'm like, okay.
So I would sit, just drive myself there.
And then I would sit there and I go,
okay, well, I feel like having a drink.
And then I would think, okay,
when am I going to have a drink?
When am I going to take my Naltrex on?
When am I going to have my gummy?
And I go all this timing shit in my head.
This time you were at the gym.
In the car before I got, Contemplating
not even going in the gym.
Then I get past that
and I'm like, okay, no.
Walk inside.
Cause one day I did walk in,
walked up, and walked out.
Didn't do shit.
That was only one day.
But the other four, then it would
get, just get to the locker room.
Okay, get your shit in the locker.
Okay.
Then, acknowledged, And appreciate
that you're in a clean locker room.
Like you're in a clean locker room
with fresh towels, your private
locker, your private shower, you know,
like all your soaps and everything
is laid out before you like, this
is where the rich of the rich come
to work out and enjoy themselves.
Appreciate it.
So I just took in the fact that
I was in a clean locker room.
Then I walked upstairs.
And I just sat there and I was like,
okay, I don't feel like working out.
But then I was like, all right,
let me just get the first set done.
And then finally it was okay.
I'm just going to be in there for an hour.
And anyways, long story short, I
would get through, I'd get through my
workouts and then I would get three
quarters of the way done and I'd be
like, all right, well I did enough.
And then I'd be like, no, that's just
my brain just saying, Hey, you can quit.
So long story short, I've managed to
get to the end of all my workouts.
And then the MMA thing is I need
a I need to try but can't do this
shit on my own I'm too secluded.
I'm too like I mean the only person I
really get interaction with is my mom
and I'm just being real She's retired.
So I'm picking up on
the energy of retiree.
Like there's no I mean if you had a bun
You know if you were If I was forced to
get, like I had to get up at a certain
time and it was anxiety over it because
I was going to get fired or all hell
was going to break loose, like there's
no, nothing pushing on me as hard as it
should and I don't know if that's a good
thing or a bad thing, but the MMA is
like, if you're getting your ass kicked.
Or you're fighting, or you,
it's not really fighting, it's
training and training your
mind and your nervous system.
But if you're in a place of fight,
you can't think about the drink.
You can't think, like when I'm
lifting, I can think about drinking
the whole time, and I do, and it sucks.
And I think, okay, when I'm done with
this, I get to smoke some weed, and like,
and it's kind of torture, to be honest.
But when you're Getting your ass kicked.
You can't really you might have some
fleeting like in between it like damn,
you know But during the ass kicking you're
not thinking about anything other than
survival, which is what I you know So your
nervous system doing stuff and then you
have the camaraderie of the brotherhood
or you know nowadays It's male and female.
So it's really just the group, right?
You know, you go out after you know after
you were the workout you guys go eat or
do it I'm just trying to do anything to To
reshift my days.
Like it's my patterns of I drink, I
do this, I wake up, I wait a certain
amount of hours and I drink and then
I sit at the house, then I edit and
then I do the shit all over again.
It's like, I need to do something
to completely kind of like the
medicine does just disrupt.
Yeah.
The medicine does disrupt, but
yet what else are you doing?
The MMA for an offline, you
talked a little bit about it.
It's an honoring of your father, isn't it?
Can you talk to me a little
bit about that and what you're
acknowledging in this path?
I never told anyone this, to be honest.
And I don't ever, I
didn't ever tell myself.
But there was a wrestling match, I'll
never forget it, it was my sophomore year.
It was in Hopskins University,
or Hopskins High School.
And if you look at the foreground, like,
you know, they have a running track above.
Okay.
And if you look down, you're going to
see four mats, one, two, three, four.
And I was wrestling on the third mat here.
My dad was up above here.
And I had this thing where I think,
like I do in life, like, I come out
strong, strong, 90 percent and then 90
percent life gets hard and I just shit.
I just crumble or whatever
I do, I give up, whatever.
And I also don't like to hurt people.
Like, I didn't have that killer instinct
to just cross face the shit out of
someone and try to break their neck.
To pin them like I didn't have
that in me and I just didn't know.
I just never had it.
My dad had it.
Got it from my grandpa who
was, you know, a marine raider
in Iwo Jima and World War II.
You know, that's no joke.
And my dad was my dad, you know,
but there was, it was, this was
regionals to go to state and I won
the first match, the second match.
The guy had me on, on, on my back.
And so I'm on my back, meaning I'm
looking dead at my dad's, my father's
face up on the running track.
And he's screaming at me, fight,
fight, fight, fight, fight.
You know, cause that's what you do.
You fight through the fricking
so you don't get pinned.
You know, and I remember.
Me just, the air running out, and me
just giving up, and letting myself
get pinned, even though I, I could've,
I could've got out of that shit.
I, I could've got out of it and
probably whooped his ass, I just
didn't want the, I didn't want that.
That last 10%.
It was, I don't know if it was the last
10 percent or if it was me not wanting
to, you know, go fuck this and engage
and go, no, like, I'm a minute and a half
into this match, I can give up, it can be
over, or I can go struggle through this
bitch, I don't know what's gonna happen,
but the chances is I probably would've
won, I just had a lot of fear, if I didn't
have fear, like, if I had, like, right
now I don't have fear, so if I had the,
I would've been a killer, I would've
killed everyone I wrestled, I mean, there
have been little kids on the ground.
I just want to destroy them.
But what are you also recognizing about
this not giving up in the medicine
ceremonies in your life right now?
This is a amazing allegory to what you're
stepping into in this moment, Travis, no?
I guess that does make sense.
That you're on the precipice of not
giving up, you're not laying down on the
fucking mat, you're, you're fighting.
You do have the killer instinct,
and that's what's beautiful
about witnessing you right now.
Yeah, but it's so hard to find it.
I guess what's finding it, so, so
working towards this next experience,
I've just realized every day is a step.
You know, I wake up, I feel like I haven't
done anything, I feel like I'm, you
know, all I want to do is drink, smoke.
Take a gummy.
It's, you know, I'm trying to get
my other work done, but my brain
is so like, where's your allies?
Where's your father yelling at you fight?
Do you hear him?
Can you tap into that?
I'm in an active fight.
Like, I guess
when I started this, when I first
contacted you again, you think it's going
to be a magic bullet, which is okay.
It's not because if it was a magic
bullet, it really wouldn't be magic.
It would be, you know,
there would be no journey.
You don't realize you think
you're getting ready to fight.
a battle and the battle's gonna be done.
You don't realize you just started a war.
Like, so now I'm in the war.
So now I got many battles.
So, which is okay.
I just didn't realize it was
going to be this much work.
Which is okay.
Yeah, they're not going to
all be hard either though.
I have to defend you and I want to take
a moment for you to hear this on the
precipice of what's coming in the future
is healing doesn't also have to be hard.
So yes, we are in war, and we are
fighting some external battles
and some internal demons, and
you're taking back your life, sir.
I also want to remind you of what I
say often is gentleness, love leads,
and healing doesn't have to be hard.
And yes, it's challenging, but in this
moment, The person I see today versus
the person we talked to three weeks
ago has climbed the fucking mountain.
Is actively climbing and
hitting a higher altitude.
And yes, I'm your Sherpa, and
yes, I helped pack your bags,
but you're not carrying anything.
You're carrying some.
You're carrying enough
of what you can carry.
If I gave you your entire
fucking bag, You'd crumble.
Yeah.
But that's the value of having
a supportive guide, supportive
integration, and the allies of your
father and your spiritual beings.
Because when you bring your
spiritual beings in, and people
like me, what happens to you?
You realize you're not alone.
Right.
And then Jiminy Cricket.
I remember the last, the last, moment
I got to talk to you before, I went off
on my own to meet my spiritual advisor.
I said, I said, I'm I said, I'm, I'm
really scared I'm not gonna come back,
and he looked at me and he said, that's
my job to make sure you fucking land
where you're supposed to land, so take
your, take your pack and go on your
journey, you'll be fine, and I, so far
I've landed right where I needed to land,
I've just, it's, it's hot in the LZ,
you know what I mean, you get a little
nervous in that bitch, so I'm nervous.
What are you acknowledging though, breathe
into, be honest with the nervousness,
what, on the precipice of this, what
are we nervous about, what can we air
I'm really aware that time matters now.
I'm really aware that every
day I fuck off is time gone.
I'm really aware
it's just time.
I don't have it.
I mean, I'm not 20.
I'm 40.
I pissed away for 20 years being a drunk.
And it was really weird.
I was thinking this morning.
It's like I talk about living long living
long living long and all this shit Well
shit who wants to live long if if you
if if all the years that your loved
ones were alive You you didn't enjoy it.
You don't you ain't
gonna want to live long.
You're gonna be lonely No one
wants to live long lonely.
So it's really acknowledging, you
know, there was a point where I was
at My uncle's funeral, my dad's best
friend was like, kind of like my uncle.
Not really, but I was standing in the
middle of the room and I was just looking
around the room and I noticed my 80 year
old uncle and like my dad's friend is
in a 70, like everyone was just old.
And it was like, I had
a real appreciation for.
I don't know, it was a
different feeling for
the, how value, how, how valuable life
is and how precious it is and how quick
it can be gone like, and how just little
ass things, like the reason my uncle
died, he just slipped and fell and broke
his femur, otherwise he'd have been fine.
Could that one little thing I lost my
dog, my love of my life, you know, she got
fleas, I had to give her four flea baths.
If she didn't get fleas, didn't get four
flea baths, did she die three weeks later?
Like, these little things, time
matters, little things matter.
And so, every time I decide to
pull a drunk where it wasn't
significant, at least when I'm
pulling one now, I'm like, well, I'm
really fucking time out right now.
And I'm acknowledging that
this is a waste of time.
And I'm acknowledging it's
not what I want to do.
And so, and I did, I did not
tell her when, but I did tell my
mom that I've had some drinks.
She was like, since then I said, yeah.
I just, I said, I, I'm
doing it not to blow up.
I said, I'm working, with my doctor.
This is not a secret.
This is not Travis is doing some
shit, you know, because he thinks
it's the rules, according to Travis,
like it's always been it's anyways,
she swallowed it, she was kind of.
Shocked at first, but
then she was kind of fine.
And you what you're doing, and I am
humbled by this, Travis, and I thank
you, is we're doing this incrementally.
So we've said this in the past
conversations, is if I told you
what to do, you'd tell me fuck off.
We're doing, we're co creating it
right now, and this is important about
addiction, and in my opinion, with
addiction, this isn't a black or white,
cold turkey this shit, cold turkey that.
We need to incrementally hold
you, we need to incrementally.
Provide you safety and guidance.
So you're able to make your
own informed fucking choices.
That was my biggest thing about you.
You've never told me anything to do.
You've never, even if I ask you to,
you're like, you won't go there.
You're, you'll make it to where it
has to come out of my mouth first.
And, and, and that's
the reason I call you.
And that's the reason I tell
you, and I don't lie to you.
And I don't like even, I mean, but
my natural thing was to not tell you.
And I'm like, why would I not
tell the one person that I.
That just doesn't make any sense.
That's my old ways, my old bullshit.
It's not the way of
the medicine, you know?
So, but yes, if you would have told
me I can't do this, I can't do that, I
would have just wanted to do it more.
And then when you tell me you do
whatever the fuck you want, it's like,
Okay, well now I need to respect that.
Now I need to, now it's like, okay, well I
don't want to do whatever the fuck I want.
When you tell me I can't do something,
then it's like I gotta prove to you I can.
But then when you tell me I can
do whatever I want, now I gotta
prove to you that I can do whatever
I want, and not be an asshole.
What are you doing to be gentle today?
What, where is gentleness coming from you?
And how are you operating
in a form of gentleness?
I got to really focus on finishing
this video for Allison for Richard.
I got to really focus on that.
I think that'll, if I can get that like
90 percent down the road and get that
stress off me going into this thing, I
think that, I mean, I've had a beautiful
experience with them, you know, cause
I've talked to him and go tell him what
I'm going through and this and that.
And this is about love.
This is about aging and gracefully.
So it's like totally about like
the journey I'm going on couldn't
fit the project anymore, but I feel
like now it's time, time matters.
I really need to get them a
second cut and I need to make some
good, real big progress today.
So I was going to go to the
gym, but I, you know, like I
said, I had a couple of Kalua's.
So I think I'm just going to focus
on work today and do a three mile
walk in the cold, which I like.
I'm starting to really like that.
Okay.
Three mile walk later in the break, and
then just kind of work, and then tomorrow.
And it, and actually, I don't know,
this could be, I almost thought of
going and working in my office today.
Drinking a cup of coffee, packing my
shit, and going to work in my office.
And working there for three or four hours.
I don't know if that's maybe a
tomorrow thing, or today, I don't know.
But this is, this is where
I could use your wisdom, Dr.
Ryan, on.
Well, what I would say is,
stay present to what you need.
What is it that you need in this moment?
I'm kind of feeling good at the house.
I feel like tomorrow would be a
good day to just decide that's
the day and just go do it.
However rough it is.
Good for you.
I'm humbled by you.
Thank you.
Thank you, doctor.