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In this powerful episode of Chapter and Verse, Marcus and Sam share their incredible journey from the brink of divorce to radical transformation. Marcus opens up about his childhood trauma, years in the streets dealing drugs, and the pivotal momen...
A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
So we'll just hopefully don't disappoint. We will definitely not disappoint. And we're just gonna start with. Why don't you tell us just a little bit about your family? Like, your immediate family, married, kids, you know, whatever. Like, people don't know who you are, but just tell us a little bit about yourself. I have been married to Marcus. This is 11 years. Oh, my gosh. That's so crazy to think we've been married 11 years. I've been married a lot longer than that. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, wait till you get to 20. Does it get better? Yeah, 100, I feel like. But it also gets to the point where you kind of think Ben and I talk about this all the time, where we're, like, on one hand, I can't really remember what life was like before you. Like, it feels like you're just a constant, always there. But also, it feels like yesterday we got married. Like, what. How. How do we have a 21 year old kid. Like, how did this happen? You know, I think love has a lot to do with that for sure. You know, impatience, a lot of patience. Yeah, yeah. I've been an angel lately. Two boys, you said? Yes, two boys and I feel like their personalities, like I feel like Rey has a lot of my personality. The older one, little one, just like his daddy, me, I work at RFA. Love it. Been there for like 10 years. Yeah, a long time. Been through a lot of change with RFA. Like I remember the 111 building. That's the building we got married in. Yes. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that. Yeah. With Passerani in front of the fireplace. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. It was different. It was different. What do you got to say about our wonderful family? That we are definitely blessed. There has been a lot of ups and downs, a lot I can take the blame for, but just the way that God has just shown up. We have a marriage today because of that. Yeah, it's been, it's been great. Even the hard times makes. I feel like the first five to eight years, all the fighting, I mean everyday fighting makes this doable today. Yeah, we don't, we don't fight. We don't really argue. I mean we, we might get a little frustrated in the moment, but it's, it's something to laugh at really. We almost, we almost can laugh at it in the middle of being frustrated. Some. She might disagree, but that's just how I feel. And I just honestly feel like that it's been great. I would not go back and change all those years of fighting because now I know that we can spend the next 50 not fighting. Yeah. Instead of. You got it all out in the first. Yes, worked it out. Exactly. Got all your fighting done and out of the way and now you're good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we can get into more of like if you want to, of your, you know, how you got together. But, but let's just cut to why we asked you both first is because I think it was 2021 when we were reading through the New Testament aloud. You came in one Sunday and you were reading your. Yeah, Marcus, sorry. And you're reading your portion or whatever. And afterwards we just said, you know, because we, we know that God had, you know, done something in your life and we just asked what changed, you know, what was the turning point. And you just. I mean, I'm not going to tell your story, but you just so impacted me. And that whole testimony just made just a difference with. With me. Just that. And I was like, I want them to share. So it was just. I remember it being such a story of hope, you know, like, it. It was certainly a story that had its dark moments, but at the end of it, there it was hope. It gives hope to all of the other parents that are, you know, praying over their kids and are trying to raise them, you know, to be godly human beings and upstanding members of society and. And to hear, like, how you came around to where you are now or even where you were then, because I'm sure there's been growth between then and now. It was definitely something that made me think, like, because I remember. I remember Marcus, the little, you know, punk Marcus. And I remember thinking, man, if he could just get a hold of this. But I don't know. And then to see you get a hold of it, it was like, if that can happen. I watched that happen. That gives me hope for anything else. For sure. Yeah. And it's a story. I mean, I don't know what part of your story you're going to share in. Whatever part is fine with us, but we're going to turn it over to you so you can just tell us what you want us to know. Well, you know, I was off track for. For quite a bit of my life. And I think what started that I will just give a little bit there that I was shown something different first to where. That's why I drill into, like, young couples or it's. Be careful what your kids see. Yes, they might only be 3 and 4, but I promise you, they. They're grasping and absorbing more than you'll ever realize. Caleb was 3 and I was 4 when my. When my dad was arrested. I remember the whole street, all the way up 14th street, just cop car after cop car after cop car after cop car. Really, Caleb don't remember that. I remember seeing my mom, not my mom getting high, but the people that were inviting in getting high, they didn't care to hide it. My mom, I've. I can't say that I've ever seen my mom just get high. But the people that were always in and out of our house, they didn't care to hide it. They didn't care about what we've seen. Caleb don't remember those things. And they were just having this grand old time in my mind. And so that's what I took hold of. The fast life, the easy money, the easy women, the, the. The things that the devil allows you to think that are. Are going to be fun and good and. Which is the exact opposite. And I remember being in this house years later, me and Sam were kind of at an off switch in our marriage, you know, contemplating giving up on that. And it was my son's birthday and I was supposed to get him. And she was just being, I mean, in a lack of better words, just petty, which she had every right to be. But we were. Neither one of us were being perfect for her to be that way to me because she was messing up and I was messing up, but it was just her way to get at me because she could. And. But it broke me. I just knew. I sat there and I was just thinking, God, I told myself, whenever I do have a kid, I'm not going to do what my dad did to me. I've never held anything against my dad. I've been a daddy's boy his whole time through prison. Never looked at him different. I actually looked at my mom different than I did my dad. I was more mad at my mom than I was my dad. But I'm gonna be a parent that's there. And it broke me. And I'm in this house and it's a drug filled house. I mean, they're cooking drugs, selling drugs. It's just all around bad. And I just hit my knees in this house and I just cried out to God, like, God, I'm gonna give you one more chance. Yeah. On Wednesday I'd go up there and I would honestly have this greatest feeling. But Thursday I'd walk out of there and pick up my backpack with my drugs and my guns. And Sunday, go in there, praise, have a grand old time, honestly feel God working for Monday to go back out and pick up my, my. The same backpack. And I hit my knees in this house and I was just like, God, I'm giving, I'm gonna give you one chance to just show me that you are real. That this isn't just a small feeling. I need you in my life. I want to be a part of my kid's life. And I. These people are like, these people are lost. Lost. And so there's just one person in the bedroom with me because this just happened. Sam just hung up on me and I just hit my knees. That's all I knew to do. And God showed out. I mean, he just, in that moment, just gave me. When you stand up, trust me, it's not going to be pretty. It's not going to always be fun, but trust me. And that was the most vocal I've ever heard God, other than a Sunday or a Wednesday. But the key there is that that's the only time I tried to reach him that wasn't on a Sunday or Monday. And don't. I've prayed like God, I'm gonna be good today. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make my mom proud at school today. And that fell. But honestly didn't give it a real genuine. Well, at that point, it was kind of about your mom too. Like you're doing it for your mom. You weren't doing it for you and you weren't doing it for God. Absolutely. So. Absolutely. And I, I stood up. I mean, and we're. We're talking to divorce lawyers. I mean, it's that, it's that serious. And in that moment when God responded to me like he did, I left this house I was staying at. I went back to my dad's house within, what, two days. I'm back. I'm back with Sam, I'm back with my kids. Like every. Like everything happened, but like nothing happened. Just because I had made a choice that I'm going to surrender all I. When he spoke back to me, that's all I needed. I surrender to you right now. No matter what it's going to take, no matter what this is going to look like. I always thought that this relationship with. With God was something just for my dad or something just for my mom. I didn't think that was something that I could possibly ever walk with every day. And in that moment within two, I mean, just radically saved me my ways of thinking, like I didn't want to sin no more. Sin was automatically discover. Disgusting to me. But I, you know, the flesh. And so for the next three or four days, like I, I did, I had a. Quite a bit of stuff I still needed to get off of. And I, I refused to flush it. And so that was my. I'm just being honest. Hey, I'm being honest. We want you to. They can't come back and get me for it. Also free and forgiven. Yes, that's part of it. You know what I mean? Like, that is a very real part of addiction. And in. Is the. The notion that, you know, you don't want to do it anymore, but you can't turn loose. Yes. And there were, there were things that, yes, I've done my share of drugs, but they were things that I didn't Use. I was just strictly selling them. I wanted the money. That was what was attracting me in that moment. And I. I wasn't going to do it. Well, I left. I forgot what I was doing, but I left it in a backpack sitting somewhere, and when I went back to get it, it was just gone. It was just. Just gone. I mean, I. I. You know, I might say, dad, if you're listening to this, I think you got rid of it, which, thanks, but. But usually I can get that out of him. But I didn't even question it that much easier for me. I didn't have everything. It was paid for. I didn't owe nothing for it. It was good. I was good to just charge it to the game, as you would say. And so I was able to just walk away with a clean slate. I didn't owe anybody. I was able to allow God to come in. And I didn't even tell my dad at this moment that God had just wrecked me in this. In this house, that. But he did. And I remember the very first day after I went back to my dad's house. I'm sitting there, I'm trying to talk to Sam. I'm trying to, but we're still kind of bickering, still being hateful. Me more so than her, just because I was. I was hurt and. And projecting my. My issues onto her. And I'm in my dad's bathroom. There's this sign that says, when life gets too hard, kneel. And I'm sitting there, and I just started playing praise and worship and. And just going through that, just trying to connect with God in a deeper way more than I ever have. And this song comes on, and it's just. It's basically talking about, this is how I get through this. This is on my knees. This is how I. I'm gonna praise you, serve you. And when I seen that, and I'm. I'm trying to finish up a hateful text, and I look up and I see that sign. I just, like, my knees just went weak. And now I'm in my dad's bathroom, and I hit my knees, and I just start praising God and praising God. And I want to say the next message was, I love you, Marcus, from her. And that was the. A complete different direction from where that conversation was going. 20 to 30 minutes. That's another little sign that. That God's going to. That God's working in this. So we. We were. We will restore that over. Over just a couple of days. I mean, radically. God radically changed that situation. Well, she's still going at the church. She's still working at the church, and she's expected to be at the church during Sundays and Wednesdays. And I was like, yeah, I'll go for praise and worship. I love praise and worship. Even being lost, I. I like praise and worship music. That's the. That's where I got to feel something greater than myself and something greater than this world happen inside of me. And so I was giving it an honest shot. Yeah, I'll go for praise and worship. And I would leave my uncle. Pause right there. My uncle said, he's just as lost as me. I mean, we're doing drugs together, selling drugs together. And he was like, hey, man, you need to listen to Pastor Chris. And I'm just like, man, you need to go listen to Pastor Chris. What do you mean, I need to listen to Pastor Chris? And he's like, man, you should really listen to him. And I'm just like, yeah, right. Sitting right here with me, doing the same thing I'm doing. You learned a lot. But anyway, I'm not. Just because of that, I'm not giving Pastor Chris the time of day. Well, two or three Sundays go by. Praise and worship goes. We. I'm sitting in the balcony. We leave out, um. Well, that fourth week, Pastor Chris gets up there in the middle of praise and worship and packs my lunch. I don't even remember what it was about, but, I mean, just packed it. And so I'm just like, all right, all right, God, I see what you did there. Well, when he starts preaching, I'm leaving. I'm just here for praise and worship. Yeah, you snuck in there and you did that. But I'm leaving and hadn't done it that I knew before. Then in. In my personal visits there very next week, I'm sitting there, he gets up there and he eats my lunch again. Doesn't know me from a can of paint. Doesn't know that my uncle is who. I mean, I'm assuming he has a little bit of an idea, but really never even seen him. Really? And got up there and did it again. And I was just like, okay, God, I'm gonna hear him out. While I'm sitting there, I was like, I'll leave. I'll leave. Halfway through the sermon, I'm sitting there halfway through the sermon, and she was. She looks at me, and she. She knew I wanted to leave, and she's like, are you ready? I was just like, nah, I don't think so. I think I'm gonna hear this man out. And her asking me to be ready, that was to make me comfortable. It wasn't that she was trying to rush out of there. It was me. And I was just like, no, I think I'm gonna stay and fast forward all the way to now. It bugs me when she talks to me in church. It bugs me. It drives me nuts. Like, I do not want to be touched. Touched. I mean, yes, hold my hand, anything like that, but don't bump me to take my focus off of what, what they're trying to say and not just hurt anybody. And unless I'm the one cutting up, it's not okay. Ain't that the truth? That's how we all are. But, but yeah, God, just. I wish I could say that, yes, the earlier part of my life was my learning lesson, like the, the, the learning aspect of it. But now that I've been radically, radically saved, there's going backwards isn't an option for me anymore. Retreating to sin isn't an option for me anymore. Fast women is not an option for me. Fast money is not an option for me. I have no desire to be displeasing to God in anything that I do. Does that mean that I'm perfect? Absolutely not. Do I disappoint him? Absolutely. But not like I did. And I know that sin is sin, but when you are human, we like to weigh sin, right? And so, I mean, even our justice system, we weigh sin. And I'm not committing any of the, the hurtful acts, the violence, the, the disappointment. And that's where I think where Paul talks about, when you are saved, you are sanctified in that moment. But I also believe that daily sanctification is the thing you continuously grow. Otherwise what's the point in watering Something like how we preach, when you plant a seed, you got to water it. You got to water that sanctification. You got to allow God to water that sanctification. And the more that you do so, the more that you surrender. That's what I told you I would like to almost touch on. So this ties in perfectly that surrender. And there's a million scriptures in there talking about surrendering. Even when it talks about don't conform to this world, that's a sign of surrender. Do not surrender to this world and what the devil has for you. Surrender what to what God has called you to. It's more than not being a follower or a leader. You can, you can still follow and be a great Christian. And in my opinion, you have to follow to be a great Christian. You have to be a Christ follower and learning to be okay with that and learning to follow and to be in 100% surrender. If you just have your tippy toe over that line, you're gonna fall short, quicker, harder, or in any aspect. There can't be no straddling. For me personally, I mean, I guess I've seen people be successful at it. I don't care to try. I don't care to try. I am all in for Jesus and that it has just been life changing. I mean, he just completely, when I'm telling, when I stood up off that ground in that house, I was a different person in that. I mean, just bam. And it's just like, God, you could have done that a lot sooner, you know, I wouldn't be such the disappointment I am, but, but it allows humility and humbleness to where I was somebody in the street. I now have to be okay with being a nobody in Christ. And that's great to me. That's awesome. At first I was just like, man, I don't want to be a nobody. I'm known here, I'm respected here. I, I, I get what I want here, or if I don't, I take what I want here, you know, and on this side of it, you got to just let God fight your battles. And I'm used to not having people have my back behind my back for good reasons. Not that I was dishonest or a liar. I just, I wasn't someone in that type of crowd. Those type of people don't roam there. That's a whole different jungle, if you will. Right. And so I'm not used to that. And I'm very big on loyalty. And when Jesus theologians, whatever you want to call it, they say, they don't argue the fact that there was a man named Jesus, that he came in and proclaimed to die for all of humanity, that that really did happen. The thing that they question is, was he part God? Right. I'm gonna leave that part out of it. I, I believe that wholeheartedly, once and for all. And but for a man to get up there, that doesn't know me for a can of paint, doesn't, and knows that this world is going to continue when he makes that decision to get up there and, and proclaim to do this for everybody and not be asked to, that's a real friend to me. Doesn't know me, that, that's a real friend. That's someone I want to be loyal to. That's someone I want to have his back because before I was even here. And for the people that were beating him, he had. He had their back. God forgive them, for they know not what they do. And so being so big to loyalty, to surrender to him once I've realized how real he is, makes me almost mad at myself. Because now that I know that I know that he is real, I don't need nothing else from him. If he doesn't do anything else for me in my life, if my life went to shambles right now I'd like to be able to sit here and confidently say, I will stand here with my hands raised high praising our Lord and Savior because he's already shown himself to me, which he didn't have to, but he did in a way that I wish I. It wouldn't have worked for me. So I know it ain't going to work for anybody else. But wake up. Just shake somebody and wake them up. And that's how I feel. That's how I. But I know that I can't because I know that that doesn't work. But in 100% surrender and allowing that that small amount of faith that we are giving us when we're born, he has all give us our own measure to put that into him. And not man has been. You can't deny it. You honestly I say you. I mean I couldn't and I like proof in the pudding know and that I. I couldn't deny it. And it has just been amazing. It just the peace let alone everything. My vehicle, my. My kids being healthy. I mean that, that. That's a big one right there. That is a big part of peace. But that peace he showers in your arguments and the times that God or the times that work is rough, the times that you feel alone, the time that you feel unseen or unwanted. I can tell you going back into that church, it was frightening for me. And I. Not that they judged me like the majority of the church, but they had seen me at that altar several times and it's just like, here we go again. And I remember I'm going. I'm sitting there eating for the passion plate or getting helping them get ready. I wasn't in it yet. And Wunder Miller looked up at me and he said, you're really done, huh? And that was one of the first people to just realize that God wrecked my life. That I just looked at him and was just like, yeah, I want to touch on that. Your husband 1 I'm pretty sure there was a point in time. My husband? Yes, that your husband. In case anybody know, Jill's husband is a co op detective. No, Now. Now he's the director of digital forensics for the ag. But, you know, it's okay. At the time. At the time, ag, what is that? The Attorney General from the State of Arkansas. Assemblies of God. That's. I wasn't sure. We don't need a digital. Hopefully the ag. In the name of Jesus. Yeah. I'm pretty sure there was a point in time where Ben. And we do love Ben. That Ben tried to detain. Oh, no. I think Ben did arrest Marcus and interviewed him several times. Ben has talked about it. And was it that same passion play? I think this was like the first year that Marcus. This was in the first year or two that Marcus, like, really surrendered his life. So it was probably like two plays ago when I said 2021. I really think it was 2022, because that's when. Well, 2021 was when I had that, like, I just freshly gave my. The end of it. But when we started. I think we started in January that year. I hadn't been saved four months. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it was probably that Easter of 2022. Talking about. Yeah. Ben wrote Marcus a letter. And at first listen. Oh, what? It's a very good letter. I just, I. I have heard. Just to be transparent, Ben has talked a lot about Marcus. Yes. And, like, it made me nervous after the ears had and how. Just proud he is of you. And he's like, I've just always, always thought, man, that kid is something. And if we can just get him. Yes. Worked out like, man, yes. To be so great, you know? And when I seen him, like, approach Marcus with the letter, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I didn't know where this was gonna go. Like, I didn't know, like, how he really felt about Marcus. Like, I didn't know because at one point, were you nervous? Like, it was a legal thing. Like, here, I've gotta give this to you. I don't think necessarily the legal thing because I think a lot. Lot of people a. A lot of the law enforcement that's at our church, I feel like they kind of give you grace when you're at church. Outside of the walls, it's a different story. So it was a church setting, so I wasn't like, oh, gosh. I think I was more nervous of, are we cool now or is there beef? Like, you know, but he did. I seen him hand Marcus the letter and I seen them to hug, and I was like, all right, okay. This is different. Yeah. And now, like, here we are, fast forward. Like, we love Ben. And like, we go by. We're like, hey, so. And I'm pretty sure Marcus still has that letter to this day in his Bible. Oh. And I'm like, yes. And I was just. It was good. It was really, really good. When they did the prophecy thing on stage. Yes. After. It was after that. Not too much, though. But he came and gave me something that he felt like God laid on his heart about me. And where I appreciated it more than he'll probably ever know is that was God showing me that what he told me is going to come forth. I don't know when, I don't know how. I don't know why. But that's also. Well, I'll just. God told me that he is going to use me to speak to thousands of people. And that's what Ben said. Ben said that tens of thousands of people. And so I started sweating and so I went home and I was just like. I was like, okay, God, I hear you. But I was just. Are you sure? I don't even like people. Because I was changed, but my heart was still hard to people. For sure. For sure. And that daily sanctification that I was talking about and it. And he was just like, yeah, you know, and did. But didn't give me much. Didn't give me how. Didn't give me where. So I've just been. Made it a point to just be obedient to every little thing, even when it comes to picking up a piece of trash on the floor. At first I'd walk past it, then I'd get two blocks away, and the Holy Spirit is just. And so I'm just like, all right. So I'd have to turn around and walk two blocks back to pick up one little piece of trash. And I'm not saying that he called me to go pick up trash, but that was his way to get me to listen. That was his way to. To get me to understand the Holy Spirit's voice over the devil's or. Or any other temptation that the devil tries to use or come at us. And also obedience in literally anything. Yes. As opposed to just what's convenient or what makes sense or, you know, whatever. Like. No, I said pick that up. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, and just my gut. Just like almost like when you make a fist and you make it so tight that it, like you. You feel it in your knuckles. You feel it. That's how my stomach would get. And the further I get, the tighter it would get. The Sicker I would feel the. And as a couple of weeks went by that working on me, it's just like, God, I do not want to disappoint you. And I feel like that was him showing me. This is how much you're hurting me. This is how much you're disappointing me. This is how much you're not condemning me, but just letting me know that because he knows in my prayer closet. That's what I'm saying. I want your will to be done and not mine. I want to be pleasing to you. I want to be a blessing to you. That was my genuine, honest prayer. Like, when I'm in my prayer closet at home or in my car or wherever I'm at, I just want to be a light for him and be his hands and feet and walking past that trash or not talking to that person on the sidewalk or. It doesn't always mean doing this big grand gesture or giving a homeless person money. Just, hey, Jesus loves you. And as you build that and as you're obedient to that, he will use you for deeper and better things. I feel like now, like, when God gives me something, it's. Lately, it's been for our youth group to. And it's been. The more that I've practiced that, the more deeper it's gotten, the more it goes from a. A group setting to an individual person. And God, I know you're listening. I don't want to start getting people's names. I don't want to ever be like, Brenda, second row. I don't want that. That is too much pressure. But, you know, if that's his will, so be it. But I just want to. To give hope. And that's what the pressure tree with. That's what they prophesied, that to go give hope. And so they said it on a grand scale to where Ben gave a number, and then God had given me a number before these two people spoke into my life. And so I don't know when, like I said, I don't know how, but I am in surrender. My life is 100% for Jesus. Are you happy? I'm just here for the ride. Well, I was gonna ask. I was gonna kind of swing back and think, like, if you think back to those. Those days, those very early days when he had that turn, like, how were you able to kind of reconcile with that? Like, because, I mean, just to be wholly transparent, like, you had seen this before, or you thought you had seen this before, you know, but clearly not like this, because this one was Lasting. But how did you kind of manage through that? I felt like when he did come back, I was very hesitant. I think we both were hesitant, but I think, like, there was a lot of times we were just like, we can't do. We can't keep doing this. We can't keep putting ourselves through this. We can't keep putting our kids through this. Like, either we're doing this or we're not. And I felt like there was almost a peace in the room. Like, it wasn't the normal, like, go for the throat top fighting. Like, I feel like it was a more of we're not agreeing so let's figure this out type thing. So it was like a fighting fair, constructive argument as opposed to a I'm gonna find a way to hurt you. Yes. But I think normal couples argue. Yeah. You know, I think it was just also, like, a more of we. I felt like we knew at a young age that, like, we really, like, we. We started off like friends, and we became best friends. And then this. Our relationship has always been really. I'm married to my best friend, and I feel like it was always. It was always such a beautiful friendship in our relationship and in our marriage. And I think it was whenever we both chose to let the enemy in, and the enemy being just like, hey, let's go have drinks, or, hey, let's go. I feel like when we weren't in the right state of mind, it was way easier to just butt heads. And so I feel like we were both just like, let's get sober. Let's do this together. And I feel like it just made things a lot easier. It was not always pretty, and it was not always easy, but I feel like when we actually were like, okay, we're gonna do this with God, I feel like it just. His presence, his peace was kind of over our household. And we still have our days. I still have our days where I'm like, buddy, don't look at me sideways, like, in working with y', all, because, you know, I work. See y' all almost every day. At first, I think I was, like, a little worried, like, am I gonna see. You know, when y' all both started working, am I gonna see them fight? I don't ever see y' all fight. You never have a. In my presence, unkind word to say to each other. You do seem like best friends. I mean, for real. Like, I can testify to that. Like. Yeah. You know, and. And it's not where a lot of people can see it, but I see it. And, like, I do remember you as a teenager going down and going worshiping and stuff. And I'm going to tell you, I don't know what other everybody else thought that I was like rooting for you. Like, and it was real. Like, that's the only thing I want to point out. Yes, you could feel it. It was real. Like I, I, I just didn't know a, I mean, I could hear them saying it to me. But when my life is hell the rest of the days of the week and even the hour right after church, it's hard to, to keep looking at that. Like, if you are God, why, why, why is my life still like this? Why can't you make that a little bit easier? You know? And I just realized that I went through that because I was able to, I was able to, to, to pull myself from it. Like Cameron, for example, example. He wasn't, you know, he chose to, to give up and take the easy way out. And that is. Why I think that he did let me experience him as a teenager but not grasp him. Because there's millions of kids across the United States that if what Ben said and the presbytery said and what God has said to me when that comes to pass, that those people I'll be able to reach, I have something to relate to them to that even had it beyond how I had it. I mean, I get it. My mom, they gave their life over to God when I was still pretty young, but at nine years old, like I had already told my mom, like, look, I, I am for the streets. Like I don't, I don't care. Like I don't, I'm not into this. Yeah, no, yeah. And making a different choice. Trying to have a grown up conversation with my mom at 9 years old about things like that, that it's, and she just, she's looking at me like a, like a baby almost. And I'm just like, no, I'm serious. Like this, this is what I'm going to do. At six years old. You could ask me what I wanted to do when I got older and it would, I'm going to be in prison with my dad. That was my goal. That was the things that I looked up to and it, I don't know. So what would you say to parents now? Like if, because I'm sure there'll be a lot of parents listening that have rebellious children. What would you say then? What are you doing different now? That with your own voice? Yeah. Speak life. I think it's so easy to get overwhelmed with kids with millions of questions in the sports and the lack of sleep and just always having to be mom and Dad, I feel like the best thing I could say was speak life over your kids. Speak life over your situation. I just. What are you. What do you think for rebellious kids? I was a good kid growing up, guys. I believe that. Don't stop praying. Yeah. Because some of the worst kids that I've ever encountered was a pastor's kid. And that. That isn't fair. You know what I mean? That doesn't. That. That makes him look like he did a horrible job as a parent. But that's not the case. That has. They have their own mind. They're gonna. Do you have a point? To control that up to a certain point, but they have their own mind. They're their own person. They're going to do whatever they want to do. You cannot physically. It's not capable for them to go and sit there and make sure that they're holding their hand in class and make sure that they're going to class or what they're conversating with every single day. That's not feasible. Don't stop praying. Prayer is real. It works. It is for my grandmother, my dad, and my mom. Don't stop praying. I get it. I may be sanctified or whatever the next person has to say about me, but I still want you praying for me. That is why I'm standing here today. Yes, I have to get up. Like Pastor Mike said, you give too much credit to everyone else when you got to get up and put your socks on, just like I put mine on. I said, yes. But the thing is, if I. I don't ever want to try and take even an ounce of credit for something God did. And that's because people prayed to God. That is people that are seeking God's will and. And God being them, being obedient to God, seeing them come through. Yes, Free will is always an option. That's why people like Charlie Kirk and things like that, that happen, free will is always an option. But with God, things just are. Are better. No matter if it's the worst of worse circumstances. If you were completely surrendered to God and your home life is hell, you're going to feel okay. Almost even feel like that's normal. But that's okay because you have God. There will be a way out. There will be a time that you are able to be pulled from that or to walk away from that. But he. You're not going through it if you can't endure it. And I know people always say, like, God made his strong, gave his strongest battles to his strongest soldiers. Yes, I like that. It sounds good. But that's not God doing that to us. It's not. I mean, it's just the sin of the world. But one thing's for sure is. Is that you can overcome it. You can he when you put your faith in him and when you surrender to him, he will help you overcome it. Or you give your. You give your life over to him. You choose to believe in him, that he is your Lord and Savior, that he came and died for all sins. You get to go to heaven. Like, it. When I first got saved, I was just like. And I knew that this was real. And I. And heaven was a thing. And I'm just like, all right, God, if you want me in heaven, better take me now, because you know me, I'm known to screw some stuff up, man. I'm trying. I want to be up there. I now know you are who you say you are. Go ahead. I'm ready. Take me anytime, man. Yeah, come on. And then it's funny just how almost at that changes. Not really. I mean, I long to see his face and hear those beautiful words. Job well done, my good and faithful servant. I genuinely. I don't. I used to want a good job for man, but now I just want that one. I do the best I can with what I got, whether they like it or whether they don't. But my goal is to please him and not anybody else. But I'm not ready to go to heaven yet. I don't want to pass by anybody that I may be the only person that they have the ability to get to know Jesus and make it into heaven. So I. I want to fulfill that and make heaven as crowded as I possibly can. And then you can take me. I'm like, you can take me now, but if you won't, then I guess I'll do this and I'll be happy doing it, but literally anytime. I'm not gonna stop you. Come on, let's go. I'm ready now. Yes, ma'. Am. I don't have anything. Any other questions, but I feel like we almost need to do a part two, because there's so many things I know that y' all could. You know, I'm sure this is not the only chapter in your life. You know, your parents, and we didn't get even get into anything with parenting, but we would like to have y' all back sometime because everybody has a chapter or verse in their life. But there's more than one chapter in every life. But I think. I mean, I'm so happy that y' all agreed to be on our podcast. Thanks. I didn't know where this was going to go. I was like, what are we going to talk? What are we going to. So it wasn't that scary once you got here, huh? No Good. No. I feel like it's our normal. Me going into your office, Gary. Yeah. And just me telling you everything that's. That's going on. And, I mean, Sam, I really admire you, like, the. You know, I've known you as you were waiting on Marcus. And I know. I know not everything, but, like, I know it was hard for you. Yes. Like, you were there. Like, I had Bentley by myself. And, like, I remember. I'm gonna cry. I don't want to cry. Okay. I remember the day that Marcus. I was seven, eight months pregnant. And I remember Marcus got sentenced to a year in prison. And I remember I was sitting in Papa Murphy's, the pizza place. I was sitting in the. In the parking lot when his dad called me and said, giving them a year. And I remember going back to the church, and I remember going to you, and I was just like, what am I gonna do? And like, I told you, like, so I don't have, like, a strong church here. Like, I can't. Like, whenever I was younger, I remember going to church with my grandma, but I never. Like, I didn't have a strong church background, so, like, I always had the problem of fighting my own thoughts. Like, I could. Being in the happiest mood ever. And then, like, these thoughts would just, like, take over my mental. Anyways, I remember coming into your office and telling you, like, I can't do this. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna have a baby all by myself. And I remember. I remember you ripping a page out of the Bible, and I was like, oh, my gosh, we're both going to hell. But I remember you saying, stick this in your bra. And I was like, that's not gonna help anything. And can I tell you, to this date, there has been three times in my life where I have just. It really has worked. I feel like I. That's one thing when I'm like, hey, you need to get Jesus. Because, like, when people are like, hey, like, I'm going through it mentally. Like, Jesus is the piece that I wish I could just be like, guys, mental health. Like, Jesus was my savior for mental health. Yeah. And people that don't know him. It's like, all right, that's baloney. But until you walk that out with Jesus, like, the peace is undeniable. When my sister passed away, like, I just. I couldn't. And I literally. On the plane, before I got on the plane to go to Florida, I ripped a piece of Bible and I put it in my bra, and I was just like, Jesus. I didn't have nothing else to say. All I said was, jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And I just felt just the peace. Yeah. But I wish I could just. Well, there's. I mean, there. You know, I don't want to use the word magical, but there is something supernatural about the Bible. Yes. Like, those words. But I feel our life. I feel like a lot of my growth individually and our growth as a couple, I feel like has a lot to do with you and people at the church, because there are times when people have prayed for us behind our back, and it's like, this is it. Like, this is. I feel like our relationship now is what we have prayed for, what people have prayed for. So many people behind our backs. Ms. Betty Avance. Oh, my goodness. Like, she used to pray for us. And I'm like, I don't know this lady. Why is she praying? You know? And now, like, she's the sweetest soul ever. Like, I love her. We just had a thing in Ms. Lori's class. I don't know if I'm supposed to speak on this, but it's my. Yeah, it's your story. Yeah. So her thing is, like, what is something that. If there was. If it. No amount of money, like, if you could just do something, what would it be for the kingdom of God? And, like, I've just been pondering on this for, like, weeks. And I was like, you know what? You know that little thing, like, big brothers and big sisters, like, where people go and hang out with the kids? Mentorship. I wish we had, like, a Christian version of this, because, like, my walk with the Lord, like, I had people in my life like you, Carrie, that would almost. I don't say hold me accountable, but, like, I just feel like y' all were always people that I could just bounce things off of. And you helped me build my walk with the Lord. And so it's like, I wish everyone had that accessibility to just hang out and talk with someone about the Lord because not everyone has that great, you know, rich history in. In churches. And, like, so, like, my whole walk was just. I feel like all y' all helped me grow up with the Lord, like, in all the little questions. I feel like Y' all have just been so faithful. So, like, that was my thing with her. I was like, I wish we had a big brother, big sister mentorship with the Lord. Like, I wish we had people that would, like, take these anywhere from, like, kids to teens, all the way to, like, the elders. Like, someone that you could just buddy up with in your walk with, in life and with the Lord. That's just like, hey, yeah, that's what we're supposed to do, make this happen. Yes. And I definitely see y' all doing that. Like, you're so involved with the youth and. Yeah. I mean, just the change from just, you know. Yeah. Three, four years ago. Like, just. It's. It feels like it's been longer because it seems like y' all are so wise, and you're very wise parents, and I know you probably don't say wise. I'm not taking care. I really, like. I really admire you and respect you, and, like, I'm not the only one. Like, everybody can see it. Everybody. Even if they don't know, like, a backstory, they can see it for sure. Yeah. But thank you guys for being on here, and I didn't want to cry, so it's okay. But I do love you, and I. I love both of you. Thank you. Do you have anything else to ask or anything else to add, Marcus? Like, Oh, I mean, thank you all most definitely for having us. I'll come and do anything. You will definitely be a repeat guest for sure. Yeah, this is. This has been good. I always enjoy the. The chance to talk about God and. Or even on, like you said, with chapters and stuff. I feel like now that I've given my life to him, I can see where, even as a child, I can give that to God. Like, me being pulled from that. And that's important for me to do just because, a. I like giving credit where it's due 100%, and that. That's. I'm always down to. To come in here and. Yeah. Talk about life. You just let us know. Yeah. The first. The first guest gets a lot more privileges. So what about your inner sister? Inter. Intercessor. Ancestor. My joke. Y' all want to hear it? Yes. Yes. Yes. This really happened. Oh. Oh, you know me sometimes. You know, again, I. This is just. Laura was like, I want y' all to get an intercessor. And at first, I thought she meant an ancestor. And I was like, and me, I'm thinking Mulan. You know what I mean? I think I'm thinking about, like, the dragon anyway, so I'm thinking, what is she saying? And so anyways, like, in my head, I'm thinking, who? Like, who? And anyways, Shannon Yarborough. Hold up. First she said. She said, I want you to connect with someone that is, like, gonna go to war with you. Like, somebody. And I remember, like, when. If you have not heard Shannon Yarborough pray, I. I highly recommend it. There is something about. And I told her this. I was like, listen. I told Marcus, like, everyone needs to hear you pray, because you don't just, like, knock on the door like you're banging. Like, I'm coming in. Literally was just thinking, like, she doesn't go up to heaven. She, like, shakes and rattles the gate, and it's like, you're paying attention right now. I got some stuff. Polite self. Like, when I'm telling her this, she said, sam, sometimes you got to get ghetto with it. And I was like, all right. You know, anyway, so like, when. When Ms. Lori said, like, someone go to war for you? I was like, dude, she's the perfect person. So anyways, I go up to her at youth, okay. And I was like, hey, I need an ancestor. And she was like, okay. And, like, we're talking for, like, 20 minutes. And, like, I probably said the word ancestor like, 10 times. And then I was like, oh, I think she, like, it hit me. I was like, I think she meant intercessor. And she said, girl, I know what you're talking about. I'll be your ancestor. And so now in my phone, it's Shannon ancestor, but she my intercessor. So cute. So. Yeah, and so typical Shannon, too. Yeah, she was just going with the flow. Like, she, like, she didn't. Your perfect ancestor. Yes. But I was just like, funny. Yeah. So through all of this, I to mic drop, I feel like, get. Get in church. Get in. Get in with someone that you can just have this walk with the Lord with, and you won't be disappointed. You're going to be covered with the piece that you know nothing about. I love you guys. Y' all are great. We love you. Bye to. We. We tend to. We have one question. A funny on a question. Okay, okay. She's got one. It has nothing to do with anything. No, it's just for funsies. We're here. So if you could go back and witness any biblical event except crucifixion, which one would you pick? Sam's got hers. Go ahead. Jonah and the Whale. I knew you were gonna say that. How weird. I was like, she's gonna say Jonah. Yep. That's Good. Just because, like, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're in the belly of a whale. What does it look like? It probably stunk. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, Marcus. His is gonna be so much shadrach. Yeah, that's a good one. Just being able to. I wanted out. I. This sounds bad, but I want to be the person that's seen that fourth man in the fire, like, when he comes back and was just like, no, but there was a force. Yeah. Yeah. And because you could. You. You see God, you know, and that. That was. But on the flip side of that, it's just like, I threw you in there, you know? But I don't want to be that person. Yeah, you're like, I don't want to be the guy that put you in there. I want to be bystander. That's like, hey, is that. But I just think that for them to come out and just. Just by. Because that. That's what I have to stand on today. It. Why I love that if you don't do nothing else for me and that they just stood there like, I'm not. I refuse to not praise God. Yeah. Yeah. And I just feel like the world could benefit from seeing that. Yeah. Yeah. That's. I like it. Or David and Goliath. Yeah. Oh, that'd be good, too. Yeah. Yeah. What is your story? Oh, man. What's our story or what? What is what story? We'd want to go back. I would. Because I love Job right now. I would want to be when there. When God talks to Job in the. And it's. The Bible says, in the eye of violet storm. And that's where I would want to be, like, in that moment. Yes, because I don't want to get in trouble like Job did. No, because he was kind of harsh. That's how God talks to me all the time. Me too. That's why I don't want to hear it. I just want to watch somebody else get it. The verse where he straight up says, you know, like, oh, I'm sorry. Where were you when I was storing up snow over here? You were there. Oh, it was where you decided to put it. That's right. I forgot. Reminds me of how. That's exactly how parents are sometimes. Oh, I'm sorry. You know everything. For me, I think when they're having the. The contest of whose God's gonna come down and rainfire first, and he's pouring water all over the place, and then Elijah, there's a theme. I like a taunt. I like A good little, like, jab every now and again. Because I really like when Elijah just taunts him, and it's like, wait, hey, where's your God? Where is he? Where'd he go? Is he. Is he pooping? Is he on the toilet? Is he on the toilet? It doesn't say that, but we'. Are they deep in thought, I think is what they say. And I'm like, you know, but that's. That's probably the one I would. I would choose. That's good today. That's. That's the one I'm. There's all kinds. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you all for joining us. And until the next time, thank you for having us. Yeah. And if God hasn't told you to shut up, you're not talking to him enough. That's right. 100%. Jesus loves you, and so do I. We're done.