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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
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Liz Herl: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Anchored in Chaos.
Tim Caldwell: Been a tick, hasn't it? Most people don't know. It's been some time.
Liz Herl: So the few of you that were are beginning listeners, we appreciate you and welcome back. And to anyone else listening, welcome. We
are Anchored in Chaos. We're a podcast designed over multiple things.
I think we just keep expanding.
We talk about [00:01:00] everything.
Yeah. And had a little, with any new venture, there's always those little hiccups.
Tim Caldwell: Little hiccups. Very expensive hiccups. Very, very expensive hiccups. Disappointing hiccups.
Liz Herl: Yeah, but that's alright, you know.
Tim Caldwell: You stick in it, you gotta stick with it, right?
Liz Herl: Yeah, that's my thoughts.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: So, we have a lot of great new things that we're gonna start, pick up kind of where we left off a little bit. That's right, that's right. And jump right back into it.
Tim Caldwell: That's right, bring, wanna continue where? We were before, we want to talk about new things, old things.
We've had an election.
Liz Herl: Yeah. We're going to get into that here shortly. We're going to be delicate with that because everyone's pretty sensitive right now.
Tim Caldwell: The world is kind of rocked back on its heels and our society is no matter where you think you are, no matter how prepped you think you are for this type of thing we've had a change of, Power and government and as a result, we really want to talk about that too.
Liz Herl: [00:02:00] Well, we are going to talk about some collaboration we're doing with Dr. Ray Rogers at Medical Innovation Solutions for Beauty, Intimacy, and Wellness. But she's a phenomenal doctor. OB GYN, but she went into functional medicine. Long
Tim Caldwell: term friend of yours. Yes.
Liz Herl: Known her for 20 years, delivered all three, well, two of my babies. She was on vacation on one of them. And just an incredible practitioner. And I look forward to expanding on that more in the upcoming episodes around functional medicine and how. We're not looking at that enough. I utilize it all the time and it's changed my life.
It's helped me with my whole process of everything, within everything I've done with my fitness.
Tim Caldwell: Ray and I have never actually officially met, so this will be new for me, too. It's coming up, yeah. We've been hovering around the peripheries of each other's lives, and now it looks like we're going to have a collaboration.
Yes. This is going to be exciting.
Liz Herl: It is. I'm very excited. Yeah. I think it's going to be life [00:03:00] changing for so many individuals, and I hope those of you that do listen, that you share our information, and get educated on how much information we have. More you can be and how well you can be. That's right, yeah.
Mind, body, and spirit.
Tim Caldwell: Right. It's always mind, body, and spirit, and I, you know, that might sound a little clunky to some and a little new agey to others, but it's as old as old can be.
Liz Herl: As old as you are, if not older.
Tim Caldwell: See? See? The message we want to deliver to people is, We can talk about anything as long as we lay down to some safe parameters so that our engagement is mutual and that nobody's throwing hand grenades, right?
Liz Herl: And that kind of takes us, we'll kind of go into a little bit more of, The recent change with the election. I just wanted to give some viewers some Outlook of what we have coming up. Yeah, and that we're back most importantly and that's right. Yeah,
Tim Caldwell: we're
Liz Herl: Yeah, we are and start reviewing some of our old [00:04:00] material and I look forward to the new stuff coming out
Tim Caldwell: So
we have some stuff banked that we'll have sent over to a production site at Brian's studio soon and working on my side of the house too. My side of the house is starting to grow some legs. So that's Genuine Effort, LLC in Newton, Kansas. And that's beginning to prosper as well. Again, Liz and I kind of launched our businesses at the same time.
Yeah, I love that. We both have taken some financial lumps along the way. But that, it really has to do a little bit with our own, We're a bit naive in how to go about this whole podcast stuff, but we put faith in some people who made some big promises and they didn't come through, so we know now that some things need to be in place before you take that big jump, but we are, we're on track now.
Yeah,
Liz Herl: we're back on track. We have good people in place. One of the things if you go to our anchoredinchaos. org, our webpage is down. That is one of our hiccups. Invested with something with someone in a company and they did not [00:05:00] follow through on their end So we're kind of in a little bit of a transitional state there.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, but
Liz Herl: You can still find us on any of your podcast platform, right?
Tim Caldwell: And when we get all that stuff ironed out, we'll run those guys into the dirt I'm kidding, but it was doesn't expensive and very very disappointing thing in. Yes, really Much to our surprise mostly Liz is that it's a lot of our hard work only two episodes That we had banked that put out, have ever really been seen on YouTube.
Mm-Hmm. there any of the other two. And it's incredible. And it's
Liz Herl: the really rough ones. So it's , it's the really rough one. Yeah, they were, they're like, who are these two people? What are they? Our first ones,
Tim Caldwell: they were really pretty rocky, but we're trying to do what we need to try to bring some energy and stuff like this.
And then we're gonna have stuff on my side of the house. We're gonna have podcast stuff. Very, very excited for that. From the gym as well.
Liz Herl: Yeah. We're gonna be actually shooting from the gym. maybe interviewing some of your clients. Exactly, yeah. And looking at all aspects.
So we have a lot of great stuff coming up.
Tim Caldwell: Exactly, exactly.
Liz Herl: And we're back, and that's what's most important. Yeah, and
Tim Caldwell: [00:06:00] what are we doing today?
Liz Herl: I wanted to delicately versus using the word sensitively discuss this. Yeah. I'm seeing a lot in my practice. I'm seeing a lot in family and friends. This is really impacting people significantly.
Tim Caldwell: Now you're, you're a
Liz Herl: debilitating state of emotional, you know, their emotional feedback of this. It's very, very, very
Tim Caldwell: And what you're tiptoeing around is how our society, our friends, our family, those that we know, how our political stances are really very much put at odds.
Whether Intentionally or not, but because of the almost divisive nature of media and our social pressures, it's almost like you have to be on my team or you're not on my team. Right, right, right. And you and I are both in a capacity of leadership and people look to us sometimes for guidance [00:07:00] and that can cause some pressure and we have to learn how to.
Navigate that as best we can. Yeah. So that little, just that little backfill is to let people know that we're not going to, and we talk about this, and I, I say this very much respectfully to people, is I'm not trying to convert you into an RAD and I absolutely not any of the alphabet organizations or groups I'm not going to use what Brett.
Weinstein has deemed Jesus smuggling. I'm not going to try to pump my religion into this, and neither are you. We're just gonna talk about this. And with that, we're really hoping that we, I get to steal a man or support, Some of the things that I want to do and understand yours and us and you and I don't agree on everything
Liz Herl: Absolutely,
Tim Caldwell: and that's what makes really great conversation Yeah,
Liz Herl: and I can what's wonderful about that is that we don't always align and agree. But I can still respect you absolutely and not feel But [00:08:00] not feel that yeah in some way you're in I'm inferior to you right and I think that's the biggest problem We're having is If you don't validate, acknowledge my thoughts, my feelings, my feedback on this, then I'm not valid.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And it's dividing families and friendships and it's really quite sad. And I would like to say you know, a very common question is how did we get here? Well, I think we all kind of know how in some ways in your own journey. You can probably deduce how you've gotten to the place that you're at personally, if you're listening in and how your family or friends are viewing certain things, especially politically right now.
And I told you this earlier, I do not like a prideful winner. Do not like, and just, when everything is in balance, you know, it's kind of, you know, the bully on the basketball court that was like, in your face, I won, and I'm like, come on. [00:09:00] There's nothing worse
Tim Caldwell: than a bad winner. Yes. Nothing worse. It's, it's, it's disgusting.
You don't even want to participate. And that's what happens. People are shut down and I don't want to speak to a person who has such ideas.
Liz Herl: Or
Tim Caldwell: voices those opinions and ideas in the way that they do. We need to be, as I said before, entering into a conversation where I have said to you and I will say to everything.
In those engagements you should be able to enter into a conversation and I say to myself, you know what, I am 100% Ready to be 100 percent wrong. Mm hmm. Right. And That, I think that shows great maturity and strength and that my eyes and ears are open and that I, while I have my opinions, if you can show me, I'm willing to listen.
I'm willing to investigate. I'm willing to, which we always should, right?
Liz Herl: Right. My perspective is, it's not necessarily about right or wrong. We all want to be heard from at the very base of ourselves. I would like just to be heard. [00:10:00] Now, what we're running into is, there's a belief system of, when I'm heard, I need to be validated and it's someone else's responsibility to do so.
That's right. And if I'm not, then there's an offense there.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: Are you picking up someone else's anxiety? Are you picking up someone else's, you know, situation or interaction?
And that has become very common.
Tim Caldwell: Again, it, you know, I don't want to beat the drum, but what I want people to understand is it's more important that we understand and try to embrace that there is always a different view. And there is really only one truth, but if we can view that truth with compassion and with love.
A certain degree of maturity in that it's one thing to say these are harsh times and I want everybody to do this and I want everybody to do that, but the reasonable question would be then, okay, how? What do we need? What work needs to be done to accomplish these things? [00:11:00] And not to roll into this thing with the attempt to be right.
I don't need to be right. Right, right. In our, in our engagements with our loved ones, family, married, however. If we enter into those things with the idea that I need to be right, you will always be at odds with that person. You need to be respectful. You need to be understanding.
Two eyes, two ears, one mouth, and talk about things. And hopefully you can bring reason and compassion and understanding and a process to how something needs to happen Versus how I just want things and I believe this needs to happen now. And true enough, we're always going to ask how, always going to ask why, who does it benefit, who will make the sacrifices, who's willing to make the sacrifices, and agree that we both need to be willing to make those sacrifices.
Liz Herl: So, when you start asking those, I call them clarifying questions in my world. [00:12:00] That is Reactive for, I'm seeing that a lot with individuals. When you're asking me to clarify my thought, it's almost like an individual is paralyzed in their thought. They're like, they freeze up, because I think we were just watching something the other day, asking for a clarification,
Tim Caldwell: You mean beyond, what do you mean by that?
Liz Herl: Yeah, like, help me understand what that is, and then
Tim Caldwell: Oh, what did they call that? Tone? Aura? What was the expression where you say something and, Oh, I agree with you, I just don't like how you say it.
Liz Herl: Right, so when you're, policing my tone and how I'm, Policing
Tim Caldwell: their tone, yeah. ~When I'm ~
Liz Herl: ~really just getting my information out.~
Right, right. Am I not soft enough or kind enough? Right. And I talk to people about that all the time. We are not responsible for how things land on someone else's ears. Right. But we are responsible for ourselves. Right. And what I mean by that is, if you know, I always joke about, and I know I'm being a cow, I'll say I'm being a cow.
Okay. It's probably not the right derelict, but that's what I'm thinking. Like, and I'm being rude or crass or, or just [00:13:00] flippin or whatever, moody, I don't know. You can name it whatever you want to, but I can account for like, okay, I said that crappy. I do that all the time. When I do something with my kids and I'm like, Hey, I know I was really sharp there, that's not okay.
You know, like, I'll account for it and be like, you know, I got it. Just had some stuff going on. I'm not trying to excuse it or scapegoat it or whatever. I'm just saying, I'm human. I messed up. And they're just like, yeah, you seem kind of upset, mom. And I'm like, yeah, I, I was, my tone was, I will say that. Now when someone accuses my tone of being something that I'm not, and I'm like, no, I'm really, I'm just more, maybe I'm excited or passionate about it.
And one thing I've shared with you that I think I'm very animated, but you. I don't think so. What are you talking about? Did you just move your hands around like a crazy person?
Tim Caldwell: No, no. You, you're accurate on every account about how you describe things. I think one of the things that we always need to keep in the mind is written or spoken, any type of communication, [00:14:00] no matter what the intent is, what you think's being said, or read, the reader may have a, may be standing in a completely different space when they read that.
And I don't like that that didn't have a comma in it, or I didn't like that there's an explanation point, or all caps, or all caps, so he's all capping me. I've texted your daughter Katie, and she's made comment to you, why does he end his sentence with a period?
Liz Herl: Yeah. It's like, and I'm like, he's just very, it's his age, it's very grammatically correct.
Tim Caldwell: Generational thing. Ha, ha. That you know, I'm texting in proper language, proper written languages, as I, as if I was writing it, which I am, I'm typing it. But that's not what kids do today, so. Oh no,
Liz Herl: there's abbreviated acronyms of everything, right?
Sure. And I don't want to venture off, but I, I'm just saying that that's another part of this too. So why are we talking about this? So I don't want to get too far off base here. Why are we talking about what's going on? [00:15:00] Well, first off, this is clearly affecting people's mental health, I can tell you that.
It has. Motivation level to even do any type of fitness or even engage in anything. I just want to be a shut in. I don't want to go out into the world, right? And How do we, okay, be kind to ourselves, but also be reasonable for our expectations. And I work with individuals on that too. Are your expectations reasonable for the situation or the person or yourself?
I know that when I was thinking of this moment just a moment ago that I had said something to you that I shared, well, this is something we'll probably just disagree on. And I can't recall exactly what it is. Cause. But it wasn't anything that was like I was. It could have been anything. It could have been anything.
Probably, because I just. Most everything. Most everything,
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, no, I remember you making the comment, yeah.
Liz Herl: It wasn't meant to depoke. We can just agree that this is was? Is,
Tim Caldwell: Is that we are developing understanding our opinions towards abortion.
Mm hmm. And how we've misused [00:16:00] the word female health care versus abortion and all of this terminology that doesn't seem to fall into place with logic and compliant compassion and what we know as fact versus what do these people want, what do these people need. And a man's point of view towards abortion will never be It's like 100 percent concreted with the woman's.
Oh, absolutely not.
Liz Herl: 100 percent no.
Tim Caldwell: Different worlds. Mm hmm.
Yeah. Completely different worlds.
Although it takes two to make one, it's a completely different world as far as the understanding goes.
Liz Herl: Sure.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Well, and I think that that's what I'm saying is that we can disagree, but I don't feel like you're disrespecting me, nor am I disrespecting you.
Right. Exactly. So when I think about how this is impacting specifically families and friendships, I want individuals to kind of consider, is my understanding of something worth losing an individual in my life for? Yeah. Whether it be your belief system, and why do I, do I think, so for instance [00:17:00] I don't ever recommend I share people not to share with who you voted for, because that generally doesn't go well in family and friend dynamics, especially if you're on opposite sides.
Because then there's, that sparks a conversation, normally of accusation, blame. He's shaming, whatever. Unfortunately, that's what the feedback I've been getting. And
Tim Caldwell: the election has to fall right before two of the largest Christian holidays. Can't tell you, Thanksgiving is going
Liz Herl: to be pretty uncomfortable for a lot of people.
It'll be this'll
Tim Caldwell: be an interesting Thanksgiving. Yeah. They're
Liz Herl: gonna, there might be some walkouts, which is what actually, I'm trying to address and avoid.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah,
Liz Herl: When you're around somebody, your family, friends, What is my expectation? I know their belief system. Am I trying to sway them?
Think about that. If I know somebody believes their thoughts or whatever it is, how much energy is it going to take for me to really share? No, you don't understand how this is going to affect me. I think that's important. You can share that, but is the person [00:18:00] receptive to what you're saying?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Dr. Peterson, I will always say it, when someone's not listening to you, stop talking. And when you do that, all the, when you're, but that's, that's the argument, right? So no, if I tell you enough and tell you in enough different ways and, and emotional and reactive and you're going to be like, Oh, light bulb, I should probably do this.
It never works that way.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, I can't, it would take somebody of great training and self control to be able to. Shut it down and listen to it, and nod your way all the way through it. At some point, you're gonna, take the carving knife, plunge it into something other than, I don't know.
But the idea is
Liz Herl: The turkey!
Tim Caldwell: That can be very, it can be very taxing, but it is serious because We know people who are separating from their, they will be separate from their family over this type of thing. Yes, they
Liz Herl: have. They have made that decision.
Tim Caldwell: You know, what we're trying to do is just explore the idea that you and I have something in common, [00:19:00] and that is, if I ever have to speak about a topic, and I am not afraid to speak about any topic to anybody at any time, I will.
Pretty much always been like that, but if I don't know how it'll be perceived, I'll always preface myself. I have something I want to talk to you about. It's interesting to me, or it's maybe I'm misconstruing what I'm understanding. Maybe you could share with me so that I understand better. And that's my preface.
What I want to share with you is this. And then as you carefully explore that, You can ask them, am I getting that right? Am I getting that wrong? Can you help me through this? And hopefully that candor and your tone and the fact that you're asking them to explain things, it'll be up to you to try to guide, it's not up to you, it's up to both of you, but you'll have to guide yourself through that conversation and be mindful that at any one time, maybe this isn't a good time to talk about it.
[00:20:00] Don't apologize for bringing it up, but this is something I want to talk to you more about. Maybe this isn't the entire place, but let's go enjoy our holiday. And let it go. We don't need to solve it all right now. Maybe you can leave them with, maybe a thought experiment.
If I left an idea with you, could you think about it for a minute and get back to me? And maybe it's not even at the same occasion. But it's just a tool, right? Right.
Liz Herl: I can appreciate all that engagement that you're discussing right there. And I think that's appropriate and what I would hope for people to be able to engage in.
I will tell you the concerns I have is the information that floats around social media nowadays is the high I wouldn't say misunderstood, but flooding of narcissist. So what, let me explain what I mean by that is like, this is what gaslighting it. And they are all very real things. This is what manipulation is and this is how this works.
What I'm finding is when people want to engage in these open dialogues like you're discussing here, and [00:21:00] someone agitates them, the other party, it's like, what are they trying to do, or what are they trying to get at here? They're not really being kind, they're trying to make me, they're gaslighting me, they're manipulating me, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
Tim Caldwell: if it's not done privately.
Liz Herl: Well, definitely that, but even If you put
Tim Caldwell: anybody on the spot. Their defenses and mental processes become different, guarded, and sharper.
Liz Herl: Well, and that's why I bring it up, and I want listeners to understand that we are saturating our society around everyone's a narcissist in some level.
Well, first off, I was just sharing this with a client the other day. At some level, there's a type of manipulation in all behaviors. The fact that you are trying to box everybody into a narcissist is unfair and not correct. And when we go to engage with one another and we know our differences and our belief systems are very erratically different, just on different hemispheres.
that well, you're trying [00:22:00] to like, there's this agenda driven, you're trying, you're planning something here. You're trying to make me think something, manipulate me. And I would just ask people to consider, perhaps maybe this person is trying to be open minded and I risk something. And that's something again, I will refer back to Peterson again.
And that is our engagements are that the risk I have to risk that you might. Be a person that's trying to deceive me but that's a risk I'm willing to take because what if there's something here to gain or learn?
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
Liz Herl: What if I could learn something about myself or the, the other person. Yeah. You know, and that gives me, it's stepping into an open mindset, right? Yeah. I am. And even saying that. So I, this is the other part of that. So if an individual is feeling kind of boxed in, like, are you trying to do something? You're being kind of kind here and kind of, like, optimistically engaging.
Perhaps I, it's raising the alarms. [00:23:00] My encouragement is to say, so this is strange for me. Like, if I were to role play with you, this is kind of strange. My gut reaction is like, you're trying, you're messing with me, right? Like, are you really wanting to have an open dialogue about like a conversation?
Tim Caldwell: Right. Yeah. I can't talk about this with other people. Well, where's the camera? Right. Am I going to get punked? It's just a one upsman gotcha thing.
Liz Herl: So the other party for perhaps you would engage. No, I appreciate you. Being open. No, I'm honestly trying to ask you your opinion of this. And then it's like, oh, well maybe, and that is a consideration of respect for both parties.
And instigating that kind of evolved dialogue would be incredibly impactful for our society. Not everyone is trying to fight you. And that is actually, that's where we're at. Everyone is, you're, you're impeding on something, on anything, you know, versus why do we walk with that hostility?
Something just flashed in my mind. I was doing something [00:24:00] and I thought how great it was and I can't, it's not coming to me, but I was waving at someone and there was just this Easygoing, like we used to wave at people. We used to be, you know, not eye
Tim Caldwell: contact.
Liz Herl: Yes. The other day out, that's what it was.
I went into a Dollar General and the cashier and I were just chatting it up and just, it wasn't historic. I really frequent on that. I just frequent a lot of Dollar Generals. You're welcome Dollar General. But this wasn't one I frequented. And we're just visiting, and just every, they're everyday people just having conversations.
And I think it has a lot to do with your energy, how open you are to it, and everyone's so guarded.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, that's true.
Liz Herl: And that's why we're walking around super sensitive, and that's why I'm saying that unhealthy and unhealthy Kind, boastful attitude does not do anything for our society. And then if you stand on top of a Christianity viewpoint, that is, there's nothing more hypocritical than that.
Tim Caldwell: Well, Christianity, religious, whatever that, if you're going to [00:25:00] wrap yourself in that banner you should do that with full knowledge that you'll have spears and arrows thrown at you big time. And when you wonder, why is everybody so, well, Dial it back, right? Your halo is crooked, too.
You and I both have a level of comfort with speaking with people. It's your profession and it happens to be required of mine is how can I convey what I think needs to be done to help people along this path. If they have nothing but questions or misconceptions, sometimes they won't ask. Like, I tell people that sometimes you have to be a really good veterinarian to work with people because they don't know what to ask.
They don't know. You know, you can't tell me that this hurts when you say hurt. Is it pain? Is it dullness? Is it tingling? Is it Well, in that description I kind of give them the words and let them come back with that. ~But I, the reason I point stuff like this out is that I want people to have the tools to know that I'm not looking to gain anything from this.~
~Yeah. ~Other than we're about to explore something that may open up a new friendship or a new understanding. And now We'll have something more [00:26:00] in common. I've told you plenty of times, I've gotten elbows in the ribs for my family. When I'm in an elevator and there's a gentleman next to me and he's only got one leg and I'll literally go, hey man, how'd you lose your leg?
Wham! So I've made people uncomfortable behind me, but the guy next to me, he's got a story. He's got a story. And he's happy that somebody asked me that. That is an occasion where we know that I have to step out of what most people would call their comfort zone. He has to step out of his comfort zone.
The people around us are going to be just aghast with, why would he ask a question like that? Well, maybe I could do it privately, but you know what, we're in the public. And, you are missing one leg, and it's not like you left it in the, you didn't leave it in the cab, you didn't, it's not a, you know, I didn't pack it, something like that, you don't, he's happy to tell that story.
That's how I meet so many veterans and stuff like that. Everybody has a story. Now, you're not going to walk up to somebody and go, [00:27:00] Hey, why are you a lesbian? Hey, why did you leave Catholicism and embrace Muslim belief? Or, why are you a D and you became an R, or an R and became a D, or flipped your parties, or whatever that is.
Why did you do that? Well, you're going to put people on the spot. Especially in public. But you can broach that slowly. And it does take a little compassion and some time and patience. And what you need to do is let them know that I'm on your side. Whatever it is, we're all rats on this floundering chunk of water, you know, floating around in the water.
And we've got to survive this together.
Liz Herl: So, what we're kind of, you know, Approaching or discussing is like an, I wouldn't dare say a new age kind of idea, but I want to talk about generational understanding for a second. And that is something that [00:28:00] is really hard for individuals to kind of consider in today's Time, if you will.
And what I mean by that, generational understanding, is I walk individuals through and understand that in our time, where we've evolved from, what the belief systems were, so when you are talking from society, from society, a societal point of view and your family system, in your family system yes, grandpa, great grandpa, great great grandpa, their beliefs and their norms are there.
Just day and night compared to yours.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: So, when you walk in with that understanding of that, I'm going to have, like, again, I'm going to give them a lightbulb moment. You know, we're talking about some really hardcore individuals that went through a lot. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Between war and, you know, poverty and all kinds of, I mean, just a numerous amount of different things and different socio economical [00:29:00] times.
So when you go to them and you talk about rights or your beliefs or your, that's really
Tim Caldwell: activating
Liz Herl: for them because they go to their time of what they fought for, what they endured. And you're saying, well, Look at my look at my fight. Look at my hardship. And they're like, are you kidding me? Like literally that's, and then you have got to have lost your mind.
This is not a hardship. And just, I ask for a consideration of awareness that I, that I would have a listener think about, you know, grandpa or even grandma, by the way, or, you know, any great grandparents, your parental system and what, whatever dynamic, they. Endure things differently than you.
So coming in with the expectation, you will validate, you will accept, you will acknowledge, you will be, jump on my bandwagon, it's really unreasonable. It's saying, you know, But then you're saying you're letting people, I heard this the other day, you're [00:30:00] letting people be locked in their ignorance of time if you do that.
So do you think that we can, you can share your thoughts, but when you get into a combative, you know, War of like, no grandma, you don't understand this is why, and this is why, because she's going to come back. No, this is why, and this is why, you know, and that's going to be the merry go round. ~Well, ~
Tim Caldwell: ~yeah, that, that, ~that's the moral ethical values that happen generationally.
Liz Herl: And
Tim Caldwell: that's what my father did. That's what I'm going to do. And it, it's by no means a caste system. You can break out of that, but
Liz Herl: yeah. And that's the point we have, but be considerate to the individuals that were in a different time is what I'm saying.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. I remember somebody saying that money's not that important.
It's about as important as breathing. You gotta have it. It makes the world go around, right? But people of an older generation is, no, what happened to hard work and family and all this stuff? That's true. In the newer, in the younger generation, it's all about the Benjamins. And that's unfortunately kind of this portrayal of, you're not successful until you're rolling in.
You know, unless you have [00:31:00] eight digits in your bank account and everything that you're wearing is gold and silver and bling. The problem is, is that there's this divide between generations that the older people don't understand. You're not doing work. Why are you getting money for it? But the younger generation are going, look, grandma, grandpa, great grandma, grandpa, I'm getting money. I'm actually earning money. Now, you may not approve of how I do it or what it is, but generationally, I'm able to provide. If there are people in my family, I'm able to provide. You may never close that chasm completely, but if you had a conversation and said, Look, I'm still doing work.
It's maybe something you don't quite understand. But
Liz Herl: Or approve of.
Tim Caldwell: Or approve of. But in today's generation people have way more, I should say, free time on their hands. Whereas you'd think if you were older and you were born in the 30s, 40s, 50s, that you know, you should be toiling longer in the field and all that stuff.
Well, now machines do [00:32:00] that. And you don't have to wash laundry by hand and you don't have to have 12 kids because we don't own large properties. And that's truly kind of how those things came about. So generationally, like you were saying, is I may not be able to convince you 100%, but I am still earning.
I've had a conversation when I you know, my passion for Bodybuilding has been with me forever. And I've had this conversation twice. Once with my dad and once with my oiless brother. And that is it's all well and good, but how are you going to make money at it? You can't eat barbells. True enough.
But you follow your passion, and in a way, I'm, you're, you know, that's a terrible thing to say. Don't follow your passion. I believed in what I could do, and I knew that people enjoyed how I showed them how to do that. That's what it turned into. a cottage industry. And, you know, we have influencers on all over the place that brag about all the tens of thousands of people that they've changed their lives and stuff like that.
It's [00:33:00] irritating to me. But they have no, they really have no experience. They've never been in, you know, if you haven't been in a gym 20, 30 years, you haven't seen it all. I've been in a gym 40 years, and I still learn things. To hear people say stuff like that, it becomes irritant to me.
However, they're still earning. And like it or not, do I need to pick up my game? Do I need to put down this pair of running shoes and pick up something faster or new technology? That's on me too. If I want to do better, I want to have what he has to do in a competitive nation, I need to pick up these things.
This is actually the nature of the podcast and the stuff that we're doing is helping us get through these things and this is a tool. We have people talking about stuff like this and they're, okay, that's a pretty level headed discussion. I like what he had to say or she has to say. Do I agree with it? No, but they're giving me an idea that I don't have to do everything old school, dirt, pick, shovel.
I can do new school, spend a little bit of [00:34:00] money, buy some equipment, that kind of, that kind of stuff. And now I'm digging holes better. I'm filling in holes better. I'm whatever that,
Liz Herl: this is an
Tim Caldwell: analogy.
Liz Herl: And no, that's a very good one. And the flexibility that an individual has to evolve and change is, is tough.
I've shared that really, I would almost say the last decade, it's, I know that sounds really minor, the generational acceptance of psychotherapy and the, of the, an individual's ability and evolution of change of your, your mind, body behaviors, all the things and engagements. That was kook stuff, right?
Like you're just, you know,
Tim Caldwell: very,
Liz Herl: yeah. And now people are saying, well, there is something into this self awareness. Like I am really a big promoter of self awareness. And a lot of people, which is kind of perfect that goes in with this conversation, they're uncertain of, when I talk about their identity, their self, like, [00:35:00] What mold am I trying to put myself in and who do I know at my core I am and So self awareness of knowing our whole sense of self all of our experiences all of the pieces of us Do I know who that person is?
Well, it's No, most of us are walking around imposter syndrome most of the time because we're, we're frightened or uncertain of what that looks like. And then when somebody challenges us, that agitates those pieces of us that we're uncertain about and we're reactive to it. And we're like, Hey, you know, I don't know what that is, but stop that.
You know? And now you're offending me. And guess what? I have a whole group of people that are telling you you're offending me too. So then I have the validity, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm valid to it, is what I'm trying to say. And being able to do that is, or understand that is, is crucial in my opinion.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, it is. You know, I guess in another example, as you were saying, you touched on something really big about our professions. The chiropractic [00:36:00] has only been around for 120 years. 130 years? Chiropractic. Now, I'm of the belief that the good Lord put everything in us, we're supposed to have, right?
How do I help it along? So rather than walk down the allopathic pathway where I learn a little bit about how things work, but I'm going to concentrate on surgeries and drug therapies, pharmaceutical interactions. And all of these things and run kind of a mill that way. I know that's not a very pleasant word, but that is how their business is set up and their job is not to fix you completely.
Their job is to, if I want to have a business making working with sick people, I'm gonna keep you modestly well, kind of sick, I think chiropractically if I'm a body mechanic, mine is [00:37:00] to embrace the mechanics and what isn't working, and when you come in for a tune up or an oil change, I complete that.
I put you back on the road, I have you run the machine, and if you need me, I'm here. There's no prescriptive value to it, but there is value to the fact that I am a tool for you to use, and I carry my tools at the end of my sleeves. Huh. And my heart and my head. Yours is the same way and very much is that your power of observation, your skills that you have in learning and understanding how people behave and much of the things that go around with some things that may cause disease or dysfunction in our own mental, physical realm, or you're going to give them tools.
You and I both agree that if we're doing a good job, I put myself out of work.
Liz Herl: That's the goal.
Tim Caldwell: And you know, as we, so we don't go into this rabbit hole too deeply, we've seen huge departures from what we think is common sense, straight fact, [00:38:00] science approach towards how am I approaching my patients?
I may be in a vernacular that you use in yours, meeting a patient where they are, but we're not going to let them stay there. It's not my job to keep a person there, or make them feel good about being there. My job is, you want to change, this is what needs to happen. Here's some tools. I'm here. They come to you, I don't like the way things are going.
You explore that. You discuss it. You say, Okay, this is where we are. What do you want? Because if you don't want it enough, if there's Simon Sinek uses the term why, if your why isn't large enough to make you cry, it's probably not a strong enough why. But if you're overweight and you need to lose weight so that you can play with the grandkids, have children, have a normal hormonal balance in your life.
I'm tired of my head blowing up every time I put my pants on or my shoes on or my feet hurt or whatever that is. That mind [00:39:00] body connection is one. It's all housed in the same thing. We have to get it to work. And what I appreciate about what you do is, is our approaches are very much the same. Okay, here's where we are.
I pull out my map. I always use calendars. Here's where we need to be. Let's work on it. And our, the departure for yours on your side of the house is that we see people willing to let people stay right where they are so that you just keep coming and seeing me. And that's not healthy.
Liz Herl: Right. Well, that's not the goal of, of these, of, of outdoors or my profession.
The idea is why this and circling back to what we're sharing, how this. conversation started between you and I is just to maybe give some perspective, another perspective. You know, it's not about thinking we're right or wrong or, agreeing or disagreeing with it.
That's not what we're searching for. It's just an idea. I listen to podcasts all the time. Sometimes I'm like, I [00:40:00] don't agree with that at all. And I'm just like, well, that's all right, I wasted a little bit of my time here, but sometimes the idea is to walk away as something I gained.
What did I gain in that? I know that very, I'm laughing because there's several times that I will watch a show and I'm like, I could have two hours of my life back. That'd be wonderful. Yeah, sure. I really regretted the show, But you
Tim Caldwell: also, you know, the old saying is, it's not a waste if you learn something, even the most trivial thing if you learn from it, oh my gosh, I wish I could have that time back.
However, I did learn, there's actually people out there who think like this, and that's tragic. And there's a popular therapist who has a show on television, you and I have talked about this person a long time, things have changed a little bit in his career, things have changed quite a bit.
Dramatically in fact, but in the beginning we always wondered well if you're here to help people Why are you embarrassing them in front of an audience and that that's the whole That's the whole talk show genre, [00:41:00] right? I could go all the way back to Sally Jessy Raphael.
Liz Herl: Oh my goodness Yeah, Montel. Oh my
Tim Caldwell: gosh, all the ridiculous trash shock jock.
Yeah They say they're here to help and you are not the father. Well, you've embarrassed everybody and You
Liz Herl: That's horrible. I mean, that kind of
Tim Caldwell: It is. But that's all about the rating. It's about the looks and the peaks and the likes and the shares and the comments
Liz Herl: They don't care about people's mental health there for sure.
Tim Caldwell: They don't. But don't be surprised that we are where we are in media and everybody's this social justice warrior.
Liz Herl: Well, now it's immediate. Like, you Instant, instantaneously, you open your app and you list whatever it is, you write whatever you want and it's out there, right? And I always, I tell my kids that, you know, we've both talked about that, sharing information, not just pictures, but, and it's not that you're, but they are nowadays, just to be cautious.
Your words are policed on social media, and it does represent you, so whatever you're, you should [00:42:00] represent yourself appropriately. it's instantaneous, right? It's right there, and then people bandwagon very, very rapidly to it and then you're either alienated or you're the victor or something.
Tim Caldwell: And as we know, and we'll, you know, tie back to an earlier reference, there are trolls out there. What? I love to throw hand grenades. Mm hmm. You go, bro, you show that blankety blank that he's wrong and they're wrong because blankety blank. Mm-Hmm . And this book says blankety blank in my research.
They're, all those people are doing is throwing gas on and they know it and they do it because that keeps their algorithms alive or destroys your algorithm or just lures in every nasty what was that, Chad? Four? What was the name of the. There used to be a, a little chat group that was just, just the nastiest thing and, but it attracts those bottom feeders and now your discussion's gone.
And I've, I've been admin [00:43:00] for several groups, several very large successful groups on Facebook.
And I've learned that I had to police every single person that I let on my thing. And then as from a business point of view, I found people I could trust and they would take over the admin.
But if you let people run roughshod over you, they'll run roughshod over you. If they're not part of your crowd and they're not valuable in your crowd or in your group, they need to be separate from your group. I hate to, you know, this isn't about creating a vacuum, but it has to be with, if you can't control people and the way that they speak especially when it's dangerous you have to be able to say, look, there are rules to this.
Liz Herl: Be aware of the simple fact that you're not going to. Well, take care of yourself first and foremost, and don't project that on for someone else to do for you.
If you're upset about something, not just politically relationship based, or, you know, job, or whatever else is going on in your life, and when you're upset, Know the right people to go to, know where your [00:44:00] supports are, and try and cautiously, you know, engage with people that you know will be maybe negative towards you or reactive towards you.
What's really hard about that is when it's family or close friends, it's, that's a real hard one to take. So to kind of go where I, to wrap up what I'm saying, When I talk about generational awareness, I'm not saying it's except that's acceptable. That's their scapegoat. Well, you don't understand in their time It was okay.
No, I'm not saying that that's acceptable. I'm saying consider the consider the individual you're talking to again If I'm really trying to convince Uncle Earl that we're doing what we're doing for this reason and I know his stance on something Why am I doing that to myself? Because I have this mentality of this maybe society behind me or this group behind me that's kind of empowering me.
But I would honestly ask you to really look over your shoulder and see who's actually standing behind you.
Tim Caldwell: Right,
Liz Herl: and [00:45:00] you might be standing alone in the theory of an idea that you're with a large group.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Right?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
I follow, I follow your thinking and I was, you know, in today's day and age.
It used to be just keep on scrolling but the notion too is that we don't have to be, we don't have to be right, we don't have to die on this hill. This is not something, if something comes up, and I don't know how many more conversations we'll have before the holidays, but you know, when you're, when we're all trapped in the same room, and we're staring across at one another, and some people have blue hair because they're old It's going to be strange how we learn how to do that, but we need to learn how to do that.
And I, I do appreciate, Liz, that we're talking about stuff like this. In our conversation earlier, we were talking about the simple fact that politics has its price. And there'll be a price if you're going to be out there waving that banner and you think this is the hill to die on.
Get ready to get shot at, because people [00:46:00] are going to be coming at you hard and fast. Don't do that. Don't, don't do that. We need to, as I've said before, I'm sick of politics. Although I'm politically, I'm politically knowledgeable.
Liz Herl: You're way more political than I am.
Tim Caldwell: Well, It's, it's good that I am, but I, I'm aware, but I don't want it in my life.
It should be that I can trust the people in the leadership positions that they're going to take care of me, and do what the government needs to be done, and do that in a, a safe and efficient way, and people aren't dying, or we're not selling out other countries for what they might produce.
That's a much larger subject, but more important is the I don't want to I don't want anybody to fall on a sword that, they don't deserve that. They're good people too. We're all good people too.
Liz Herl: Right, and that's just we don't have to hate each other for our different beliefs.
We don't have to challenge. Nope. Just consider that you don't have to. Take care of yourself. Yeah. Be kind. Are your expectations reasonable for [00:47:00] the people you're engaging in? Because be careful you're not becoming the bully that you're afraid of the bullies are.
That you might be the bully you, that you unintentionally, was fighting against because now your mission has changed a little bit.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. If you're beating everybody over the head with the same hammer that you said everybody's being abusive with. It seems quite hypocritical, and everybody sees it too.
And then we call out each other, and then it's a big, we're back right where we started.
Liz Herl: So, a couple quick tips. Yeah, go ahead. I was sharing with some of my clients that, you know, when you're in an environment whether it be a family gathering or a business gathering I always share with people that like, who are your three people in the room?
What I mean by that is, who are the three people that you know that kind of got your back, that you can go over next to and visit with and not gossip with, you can do that afterwards, but not while you're in there. But kind of like your stabilizers. They're my safe person. They're the person that I know that I can stand next to, and I can, they're not going to be engaging me in questions I [00:48:00] don't necessarily want to answer.
Yeah. So that would be something I would ask a listener to take away. Do I have three people? I mean, sometimes that's a big number, but do I have one person in the room? And then if I don't have anybody in the room, how do I take care of myself in an environment like that?
Learn to step away. Our biggest downfall is the inability to walk away from something and step back and go to the restroom. Take a walk outside Well, I wonder what they're thinking. They probably know they're getting to me because I took a walk outside. Who cares? If you have the mindset, I'm just taking care of myself.
I'm not gonna mess with all that.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, right
Liz Herl: You know, I had someone else I was sharing like I go and do the dishes afterwards Like like what are my little areas that I I try and remove myself from those conversations With the understanding that when you're doing this, you're not trying to escape something.
You're just trying to take care of yourself because the reality of it is you're, if you look at it as like, I'm trying to scurry away, then that makes people angry. You know what? I find I'm [00:49:00] just trying to take care of myself. And the reality is I can't change any of your minds or your conversation. So I'll just remove myself from the whole.
Tim Caldwell: Excellent. Excellent point is really the self protection. You don't have to, don't go into something and you think you have to win. If you can survive the evening, good job. But, I would say too challenge yourself a little bit. Stick your hand out. Maybe you can't talk about the things you want to talk about, but you can talk about the weather.
You can talk about the kids and how beautiful they are. And you can talk about, you know, Car, you can talk about all these things, right? But if you're a Ford guy and I'm a Chevy guy and it's the Hatfields and McCoys over almost everything, go wash the dishes, go the park.
Liz Herl: Right, exactly. Now, one of the other things I want to put in the minds of individuals is, know when you're being baited and that someone's poking at you and you know when that's happening and you know those people that like to do that.
It's such, it's so much self love and care and awareness and [00:50:00] all the things. When you're like. Wow, this really, here, in your mind, not necessarily out loud, here we go, this is where they like to go, someone's over in the corner talking loudly about something that they know that you would, well you know, I don't know I'm not gonna even make grand statements but something that you know that would really ignite another individual and they're purposely poking you.
I understand they're like, okay. This is that time that I'm like, you know what? This is really not worth it to me. I'm gonna go do my own thing and go do the dishes, go outside, go whatever. And, no, I'm just, it's not worth it. I'm taking care, we have this idea, remember that fight, defensiveness, like, you know, I know what you're saying over there, and you're just, you're falling right into the trap.
It's not worth it.
Tim Caldwell: Don't try to exchange barbs, because it'll just escalate.
Liz Herl: Yes, it always does.
Tim Caldwell: You and I talked about a young man who tried to invite me to have an intellectual, air quote, conversation in a bar. And he invited other people. Yes,
Liz Herl: that sounds like the great place to [00:51:00] have an
Tim Caldwell: intellectual conversation.
And he, he, and it, it was wrong. It was alcohol. It's noisy. You can't be sure what's being said or what's being heard. And it blew up in his face, that person who invited me, more than anything. But the thing that really got his goat was, I just told him, well, that's your opinion. And he expected more and more and more.
There won't be any more. That's your opinion. That's how I end that.
Liz Herl: See, and I think that was, that's great. When, you know, again, be ready to have a good response, but in a response, it's not
Tim Caldwell: one ups and
Liz Herl: very good or, or combative in a way of like, you know, like, let me poke you back a little bit.
If you want to poke me, I'll poke you. Right. Well, it's like, you, if. Any individual knew how much power they take away when you walk away from something. You are stealing everything from that moment. And you are way more powerful for
Tim Caldwell: it.
Liz Herl: And it's in your, and I'm not saying you're not hurt or you're not frustrated or any of those things, but a self reflective moment.
I would say 20 minutes to an hour later, you're like, man, I'm [00:52:00] so glad I didn't do that. Because that would have been worthless and I would have felt terrible. I felt momentarily terrible because I felt like they got a jab in and I didn't.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: But I also stole everything else from the room when I walked out.
Tim Caldwell: Oh, sure. That's, there's always the people who go on, you know, 15 minutes later, they go, I should have said this and I should have said that. Yes, yes, yes. Well, you don't need to be that person. And I always want people to understand that being who you are takes A bit of discipline. Be the bigger person, as best you can.
Be brave. Don't shrink. Especially back from the things you really do believe in. But it's no place to have an argument. If you want to talk about this, we'll go talk about it. Let's go outside and talk.
Liz Herl: Then you walk. Right. And we've given examples of that earlier on in the show.
Plenty of times. Plenty of times. So, I would definitely say, definitely recap back to that. But, we're going to wrap up here and just, hopefully this was some insight to individuals and listeners. Yeah. Just take our two cents. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: We could talk about this forever. Oh, absolutely. Forever and ever.
Liz Herl: And we'll have lots of other conversations [00:53:00] coming up.
Yeah, we will. Now that we're back.
Tim Caldwell: Thanks for having me back.
Liz Herl: So, everyone, I would love it. Our social media is still in great working condition. Our website isn't. So, please go to Instagram and Facebook. Like, comment, subscribe to YouTube. You will find us on YouTube. And leave us a review. Give us some insight.
You can still do that on YouTube. on any of those platforms. Yeah, brilliant, So, please do that. We want to hear from you and
Tim Caldwell: You can find me on my side of the house at Genuine Effort, LLC.
Liz Herl: On Instagram and Facebook.
Tim Caldwell: Instagram and Facebook, that's right. And We look forward to it. Thanks, Liz. Thanks for having me. It's exciting. I'm glad that we're back.
Liz Herl: Thanks for listening to us.
Tim Caldwell: Thanks, Liz.
Liz Herl: Bye.