FAIR's 14th Annual Hold Their Feet to the Fire Radio Row

A special episode from FAIR's 14th annual radio row event, Hold Their Feet to the Fire, where more than 60 radio hosts broadcasted from DC to hold politicians accountable for the crisis at the border and poor U.S. immigration policies. Interview guests included lawmakers, sheriffs, immigration experts, angel families, and many others. In this episode we interview FAIR President Dan Stein, Sheriff Sam Page of Rockingham NC, Rob Law - Director of Regulatory Affairs and Policy for the Center for Immigration Studies, and Mark Morgan - Former Acting Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Check out FAIR's Facebook and Twitter accounts for more interviews with other distinguished guests from this special event which will continue to be posted throughout the week!

Show Notes

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What is FAIR Immigration | Understanding Immigration?

The Federation for American Immigration Reform's podcast bringing you the most important updates about U.S. immigration. Featuring special guests including members of Congress, journalists, and experts in the field.

Spencer:
All right we are recording this episode of understanding immigration from FAIR’s annual hold their feet to the fire event where we have more than 50 talk show hosts gathered here to discuss important immigration topics that impact all of our daily lives I’m Spencer Raley FAIR’s director of research and to start things off we have a very special guest on now FAIR’s very own president Dan Stein now Dan has been a part of FAIR since 1982 and has served as our president since 2003. Dan has appeared on virtually every significant talk in tv radio program in America and has testified before congress more than 50 times he's more knowledgeable on immigration than anyone that I’ve ever met and has built really an incredible culture here at fair one that I’m very proud to be a part of so dan thanks for joining us today.

Dan:
Nice to be with you Spencer

Spencer:
absolutely so dan this event has been going on for many years now and every year it seems bigger and better than ever so thinking about the context of this a particular event that's going on during one of the greatest immigration crises that we've ever faced tell us just a little bit about the history of feet to fire and why it's such an important event today

Dan:
well it's really a credit to these hosts and the management of the stations that they come out even during the pandemic because last year we didn't do the event and of course we couldn't do it but this year we did and Feet to the fire has its genesis going all the way back to the activism efforts of the organization back in the 1980s early 1990s in the early 1990s mid 90s there was a radio talk host named roger Hedgecock out of KOGO radio in San Diego who had an event he called feed to the fire where he would bring some of his listeners couple hundred to washington to lobby and broadcast his radio show now we had been bringing occasionally radio hosts to events that we had done on an ad hoc basis but this happened we decided hey why don't we join rogers group and bring some other radio hosts to participate with him and build out something from feet to the fire and that's why it got the name it all started with roger hedgecock who was the mayor of san diego at one point as well and it just took off and you know because immigration is always in the news very timely if anything it's more in the news now than ever everything that we predicted when we founded FAIR that if the country did not properly prepare its borders if it didn't take the steps needed to control immigration the sheer migration pressure of hundreds of millions of people with everything to gain and nothing to lose by trying to get here would overwhelm our system and overwhelm our borders and in fact that happened our idea was years ago that if we could make a sensible case to congress the American people this situation would never have happened but if sensible people don't get involved then it becomes unsensible insensible and this failure of leadership is one of the great tragedies the nation is facing now as we spin into chaos the Biden administration is taking the lessons of the last 50 years and throwing them in the trash you know the past is trash apparently they don't believe that you can learn anything from the past but and I thought jimmy carter's administration was inept but this is unbelievable you've got people there who apparently know no idea have no idea about governing about thrift limits about solvency currency stability about the social welfare costs of bringing people in whose educational attainment doesn't really permit them to earn the money they need to live above the social safety net I mean this is they're imposing national bankruptcy on the country so the momentum of the event takes on a life of its own as something that the talk show hosts will tell you routinely this is one of the events their own listeners look forward to absolutely and at some level the battle is between sincere and obfuscation sincerity is what you see at feet to the fire we bring folks here who are on the lines sheriffs people who've lost loved ones people who live near the border policy people who just provide good data but they're here without an agenda they're just telling you the truth and it resonates with the listeners of these stations compared to the lying the obfuscation the misrepresentation the hiding of data a lack of candor and truthfulness we see from coming out of the administration tonight and this is why the event has such an impact

Spencer:
absolutely and yeah again we are we're seeing more interest in this event now more than ever and I think some of that is some of that is born by the fact that we've seen members of congress coming in here this morning already being interviewed by hosts in their own districts that are telling them hey we're in the area we're talking about this issue if you want to have a voice of this you need to you know you need to get here and you know let us hold your feet to the fire and so it's great the impact that we see happening here and just going back a little bit to you know the current ongoing crisis and again you've been working this industry for many years you've seen many immigration crises come and go how does this current crisis compare to the previous crises that you've seen like you know the one that occurred more recently in 2019 and some that occurred before that how is it the same how's it different

Dan:
in some ways it's the same invariably when there's a rapid change in the dynamic the news media will pay attention the difference the danger comes when the media become acclimated to what seems to be a new normal and when you have chronic anarchy like we have on the border you see some of the networks cnn msnbc they already are motivated to ignore the story they feel like they can move on pretty quickly in afghanistan people coming in they don't follow up what happens to those folks unless somebody turns out to bomb a nightclub or something you don't hear all about them but the sheer magnitude of what's happening the persistence of it and even more importantly what appears to be just the low-grade political response never have I seen a political crisis where the political ineptitude or the lack of care or in some cases apparently a desire to sabotage the system and create the crisis is without precedent Biden is smart enough to know should be smart enough to know after 50 years or whatever he's 107 years in the senate the people would respond to his signals the signals he sent when he campaigned the signals when he sent when he changed the laws and here we have today a major manifestation of a crisis intelligence says thousands are coming up 50,000 trying probably today moving across central America south America these folks coming in from Haiti aren't coming from Haiti they're coming from Chile where they get status technically they're not refugees because they have a place where they were already living and they can't go through all those safe countries and make a claim here but Biden lets them in anyway most of them they got their cell phones they tell them hey you know this is what you got to do they seem to want this crisis (yes) and that's what's different what's different here is the democratic party has been taken over by people who are they have what Thomas Sowell called an unconstrained view of nature which is different from the normal governing philosophy of America which is a constrained view as Sowell puts it constrained view is built on the British conservative tradition of custom convention tradition family faith community voluntary associations that de Tocqueville talked about in favor of a transformational party that looks more like kind of a socialist unlimited unconstrained view but it relies upon this governing elite that know better right and govern on behalf of the poor folks the proletariat and the rest of us were like the kulaks as the Russians would say we're in the way we're reactionary business people those kinds of people don't believe a nation should lose control of its borders right and so during this the unconstrained have this rationalization of what they call a transition period to get to utopia which they believe they're going to create see on the conservative tradition the constrained view is utopia is impossible you try to mitigate faction through delegated powers and the separation of power (right) but the unconstrained view believes that you can have utopia but you need this transition to get there and that's when all hell breaks loose the transition justifies censorship smearing the opposition intimidation abridgement of rights public rights no public square one-sided debate only one side is heard you cannot have justice spencer unless all sides of an issue are heard and in this country (right) other than talk radio and some alternative media through digital both sides aren't being heard Biden seems to have an alliance with the tech lobbies and others to prosecute quasi-government censorship which is the greatest danger America faces right now to its political health that and extraordinary democrat undemocratic voting patterns that enabled untraceable voter fraud this is really getting out of control these things all tie back to immigration a because the democrats want to import people who are going to vote the way they want them to vote and b because document security is fundamental to preventing vote fraud neither which democrats seem to want the democratic party is not the party it was in the 90s not the party it was 20 years ago that's why you can find sound bites people octogenarian politicians like Schumer the Clintons and folks who are saying things now that sound like Donald Trump what happened to the democratic party well they no longer represent organized labor taken over by this elite cabal not in touch with the average person who believe that their governing philosophy does not require input from the average American we're supposed to sit down shut up and do what we're told

Spencer:
absolutely and you know you see that you see that transformation evident in some of the some of just the policy changes over the last few years you know you see a number of unions that are very concerned about the representation of their workers because they know that many of their companies are you know opting for foreign labor both legal and illegal over their own represented workers you know and just a few short years ago that was a cornerstone belief of the democratic party you know the structure…

Dan:
democracy doesn't work if the corporate model is not attached to the people bestow a charter that gives corporate liability for the accumulation of capital and leveraging it for financial purposes in exchange for a commitment to the community where the company is the separation of the multinationals they're throwing in with china being willing to do these joint agreements and then lose our technology and our other edges to china means that they're no longer attached to the united states as the primary entity even in the days of the trust magnets back in the 00s and 1900s or whatever andrew carnegie and others understood the need to give back exactly the way these tech lobbies are giving back is by leaving money to widow or widows like lorraine powell jobs who then turn around and throw their money at re-engineering projects right not things that are going to have the ha you know help the community or the average American or religious communities or anything else they're too busy trying to re-engineer the country in some prefectable image this this separation this increasing social distance between the elites and the community distance between the corporations and multinationals and the average American is part of why our democracy's falling apart democracy's tied to people and it's tied to land the us is an idea but it's much more than that customs traditions conventions you know and the framers understood and inherited these traditions from british conservative governance we're in danger of losing all those even though after all the lessons of the 20th century it's throwing in with an elite cabal that wants to create utopia and abridge civil rights in the process right it's never going to work

Spencer:
right and that leads me really well into my next question you talked a little bit about how we're moving away from the founding of this country the democratic republic founding of this country that protected all individuals equally all citizens equally and are moving more towards this society being constructed by the elite thinking that they're creating utopia for those that are going to be under their control but doing nothing of the sort so this may be too broad of a question but what are the first steps to fixing this thoroughly broken immigration system that's being used to transform the united states as a whole like what is the first step for you know those across the street in congress today and just for American activists towards restoring our republic as it should be?

Dan:
well of course first thing is you have to familiarize yourself with the principles of good governance and understand why the constitution says what it says all American citizens need to read the constitution with an understanding of why it was designed the way it was and try to get some at least simplified version of what philosophically provided why the institutions were built the way they were there's a reason they exist there's a reason that the current democratic party does not like them they but they're built on small “r” republican principles of electing people who elect people who try to provide a refined process but in the end it's still representation and they also need to understand the customs traditions and history and legacy of the country and why those lessons are important and not trash the past and then thirdly if you live in a state where people agree with you in the data census show people are tending to aggregate within communities where they share political views right well then you need to talk to people who live in other states if you live in a state like texas or florida but you have relatives who live in massachusetts or new york email them about the immigration problem in the crisis and let them know what you're facing let them know why it matters they can't hear you they don't understand what your concerns are where they are is based on an unrealistic view of governance and if they don't hear your point of view we can't spread the word so don't just talk to your neighbor all right but learning educating yourself teaching others joining fair fairus.org when you become a part of our team you don't have to spend a dime you just put your name in for your emails you get all of our great information content material research reports which your able team produces in our research department spencer and you have you know for warrant is forearmed I mean one of the great things about what's happened is Americans are now aware our members are our membership is huge people knew in ways they never could have in the 1980s they know about the immigration issue it's in the news every day and they learn they educate themselves as the issues come along they can see what Biden has done they understand it they might not have you know in 1979 when carter said come from cuba open arms and open hearts right obviously the Biden people are selective and who they let in the cubans they don't seem to care about (but they're they're being sent back now) they're very clear that they but you know I mean that's ultimately politically strategically what this organization and the movement have to do we have to convince the democratic party that the hispanic vote will never be like the african-american vote that the hispanic community is diverse independent-minded that they in many cases as they're here longer vote more in line with blue-collar workers if they're blue-collar workers with other blue collars right and we see that coming to fruition in you know southern florida individuals that have come from you know cuba areas that had communist socialist past we see that in south texas individuals that worked hard to come here the right way and are now being lumped in by these open border politicians is this left-wing cohort that wants to equate them as the same thing as an illegal alien who came here the wrong way you know in some ways they're defeating their own agenda in some minor ways by lumping this entire group together and I think we're also seeing that with the african-american community as well you know more of them voted for trump than had voted for a republican candidate in many years because they realize they're being used as a as pawns

Dan:
Wouldn’t that be nice the betrayal of the african-american community is a whole topic unto itself (absolutely) and to watch Biden do what he's doing it's just amazing to see that the african-american community remains so loyal to the democratic party and yet for what the democrats are trying to do with the immigrant population is avoid assimilation blind has banned the word assimilation apparently is bad they say that people who oppose immigration oppose a multicultural democracy we have a multi-racial multicultural democracy

Spencer:
I mean you only have to go back to look at the olympics this year you just look at the divide diverse representation we have whether it's you know a sporting event like that but the united states is the I don't know if I would say statistically but it's one of the most diverse countries in the entire world and we're proud of that so to kind of suggest that you know the many cultures we have here that are made up of citizens that care about this nation isn't diverse enough so we need to let people come in illegally so that we can become more diverse is in a way offensive and a slap in the face to our very rich multicultural history

Dan:
well we want to get back to the idea that we have traditions and values and ideas I mean yeah we have some you know spots in our background we have to learn from (absolutely) in the end our traditions values culture these things are worth passing on to the immigrants right as they come in and they and it's a short change them to not teach that

Spencer:
right and just the structure of a republic is one so that when we do make mistakes we are in a culture of restoration that's why we've been able to see our shortcomings and our constitution covers these individuals that are being harmed and it has allowed us to grow faster than you know many other nations have

Dan:
well theoretically we have a positive feedback loop for the things that are working (exactly) and a negative feedback loop for the mistakes we made except that Biden has apparently taken the positive feedback loop of everything that trump folks did in immigration and applying a negative feedback loop and deconstructing (absolutely) I mean and so we have increased entropy right disorder disorganization we have to fight to bring back reduced entropy more organization and restore the things that we know that work and that's why a lot of the folks here today this movement this this organization this event brings together everybody in this movement who is concerned about the issue from this vantage point you see folks like chris kobach tom tancredo you see environmentalists you see angel moms you see law enforcement officers who are on the front lines all come together in this event major politicians and others they're all here they're all here at feet to the fire

Spencer:
it's not your typical washington dc event where everyone's you know suit and tie politicians

Dan:
there's nobody here lobbying for the saudis (exactly) nobody on the payroll in china no these are just good old folks good old-fashioned American folks who believe in their democracy who want to make a difference

Spencer:
it's really a beautiful thing and it's just it's an incredible event we're really happy to be back for the first time after missing last year and just seeing some of the positive change is happening within you know overall kind of this terrible trend that's being created by the Biden administration and we're just happy to be a part of this and to see what we can see what see what fires we can light see what we can get moving you know throughout this country dan stein thank you so much for coming on thank you for all the great work you do for our organization here at fair and everyone you can find dan's work my work all of our work at www.fairus.org make sure to check it out and thank you for tuning in

Dan:
nice work spencer thanks

Spencer:
all right my next guest here on the understanding immigration podcast is sheriff sam page from rockingham north carolina thanks for joining me this afternoon

Sheriff Page:
glad to be here I want to thank fair federation of American immigration reform for giving an opportunity to come to washington dc the capital of the united states

Spencer:
absolutely and I just want to thank you for coming here you know we've we've had a we've had a great event so far how are you finding this year's event?

Sheriff Page:
you know I’m not sure exactly how many interviews I’ve done today but what I look forward to is you know I do I do tv interviews sometimes back home and sometimes when you're talking some of the new stations it they do it's a lot about sound bites and they don't really get the full content away the point you're trying to make and we've got we know it's good stations but the thing about it is with talk radio I have the opportunity to tell the story I kind of have what how we experience things and how it impacts us you know back home

Spencer:
absolutely and that's the whole point of this event that we have here you know get talk radio hosts from across the country they come here they tell you know their constituents everyone in their in their home states their counties what's going on it's not just again coming to washington dc get a couple of politicians on to do a few sound bites and then you go home you know we're getting we're getting the real deal here

Sheriff Page:
well I’m just and you and i'll say this you know when you when you watch when you watch tv and something like this and you and you see the same people talking something like this you know credibility you've got to have credibility absolutely and but I think the sheriff's without any question the sheriff said I work with across the country here on some of these issues you know we've got credibility with citizens we serve absolutely this is an opportunity to let other people know what we're seeing but let it be a local flavor

Spencer:
absolutely and yes we have we have dozens of sheriffs here for this event today because we want to know what's going on in your state in your district in your county so you're from rockingham north carolina that's right just north of greensboro just north of greensboro I think most of us are going to know where that's at but so often when we think about you know immigration illegal immigration people immediately think of the border you know el paso del rio mcallen you know arizona and you know for good reason there's a terrible crisis going on at the southern border right now you've got thousands of individuals flooding the border every single day hoping to take advantage of amnesty and you know coming to the united states being released into the country I think it's often we forget this impacts counties inside of the united states as well you know you're what 1500 miles away from the southern border what are some of the impacts you've seen of illegal immigration in your county

Sheriff Page:
well what I have seen is I think is well over 300 persons and since 2010 to the present and we're a small county but about over 300 persons that have been charged criminally have ended up in our jail that they're determined to be illegally in the country now the thing about it is but I think it's less than 50 percent of the persons that have come into under circumstances they've been arrested self-identified through arrest through state charges and then we and then we do the checks and then communicate with ice that those persons are less than fifty percent are or detainers are issued on wow and one and that's what that's what worries me is if you have criminal offenders coming in and not everybody that comes to the border is the that hardcore criminal (absolutely) but it only takes that one to take a life it only takes that one DWI to take a life (right) but we see persons come in what I worry about is the current administration the Biden administration and the directors under secretary Mayorkas that they change and reduce the chances of additional detainers being placed on persons because a lot of people don't understand that the federal detainer gives us authority to hold that person until the feds the ice agents can take custody of those persons in a jail setting which is the most proper safest way to do that there's some persons who don't believe that also on the other side but the point about it is I tend to believe that if a person is committing criminal offenses in America and if they're illegal in the country they should be deported I mean I mean that's it's I mean that's a lawful statement (right) but the thing about it is if a person under this current administration if there's less detainers issued that means when a person that was criminally charged if he posts a bond he's released back out of the community with potential to re-victimize either persons in his own community or across the county or go other places

Spencer:
and every single one of those crimes has to be considered preventable because there is that…

Sheriff Page:
if you look if you look at just in north carolina look at how many counties we have 100 counties the question is how many sheriffs there will honor federal detainers now I know a majority of sheriffs do honor federal retainers but look at the bigger counties that may have more population people come into their counties that may feel that it's a sanctuary setting and then they establish there they get in trouble they get in trouble they get probably to jail they place on a bond no detainers are issued they get released back out in the community or if a detainer is issued and the sheriff does not honor detainers that's another problem so I think I think but I think you said it right the big thing you said was a lot of these situations I think are preventable had a detainer being issued and the sheriff's honor those detainers right now we participate in what's called 287g warrant service officer program that program came about just before the trump administration ended I think there's about 30 sheriffs maybe 30 sheriffs of north carolina participating in the warrant service office program so when a person is criminally charged he's determined to be illegal in the country through the process we notify ice if they issue detainer and an administrative warrant we can serve the administrative warrant the ones that have the authority and we can we can honor the detainer and then when a person is ready to be released we know for ice for pickup they got 48 hours very simple it's a good process good safe process

Spencer:
absolutely you know another angle that comes into this is if you have ice officers you know doing their job they know where an individual is that has a you know they need to go a rest and put into proceedings like you had mentioned a little bit ago it's a lot safer to do that in a detention setting than having to go knock on a door and who knows what you're going to run into and who's going to be placed at risk

Sheriff Page:
it provides a safer environment now let me jump something real quick because you haven't you hadn't mentioned anything about this what about the Mexican drug cartel well I’m going to call you out today as I caught been talking all day the Mexican drug cartel do operate in our communities even in my community and around my community sheriff johnson from alamance county was here he would tell you some stories about what he's experienced with the cartel and the drug activity but all of our communities have been affected a year ago a little over a year ago there were four members of the jalisco new generation cartel that were arrested in axton virginia that's five minutes north of the city limits where I live been operating for about three or four years my understanding according to the dea out of virginia but also a few days later four days later 10 were arrested same cartel then in charlotte that linked back to california so the thing about it is it's not if they come when to come the cartel already here you're right your ms-13 you know are operating about 1200 cities I understand what I read the cartels are around when we stop when we stop some money or deal with somebody that's dealing heroin or fentanyl I tell everybody I used to wonder who are they affiliated with they're selling that product which is not made in the united states they're selling products they're working for the cartel they're part of the cartel and they need to be punished appropriately (absolutely) according to the law

Spencer:
and again you know it's so easy to think this is just a border issue but you know this is happening in your district in north carolina and so it's important that whether you live you know in arizona or texas along the border or if you live in des moines iowa or if you live in north carolina this is an issue you need to care about this is an issue that will impact you

Sheriff Page:
you've heard me say this for almost 11 years if we fail to secure our border every sheriff in America will become a border sheriff we're there right we're there we're there we are border sheriffs 28 I think was 28 people died due to heroin fentanyl overdose last year in rockingham county (it's tragic) okay (it's tragic) but nearly four I think it was nearly 400 overdose calls for assistance where we had to come in and some of those were narcan was utilized to save lives you know my guys the paramedics the firefighters or rescue squad members they are saving lives every day with night with narcan and but to me what bothers me is and when things seem to be normal or the regular and stuff like this people start you know it loses the effect right leg right heroin overdoses female overdoses any type of overdose is not acceptable

Spencer:
yes absolutely you see a tragedy every day on the news eventually you lose your sensitivity to it

Sheriff Page:
yeah it's happening in counties large and small in north carolina but it goes back to it the first responsibility government is to protect the people we must secure our borders operationally before we have any discussions in congress about immigration reform (absolutely) and I don't think anybody argues that immigration law some of the laws are outdated but the point about it is you can't you can it's just like running the water in the bathtub you got the plug out and it's still fun and the water's still rolling it's just going to continue rolling that's what you've got at the border right now and the people in America need to wake up we need to hold as we hold our local officials accountable we need to contact our senators they ain't but a hundred 435 representatives and burn those phones up and call them and write them and email them and tell them that they need to not forget that they serve the people it's not about an election cycle it's about protecting the people in America

Spencer:
right and that's what this whole event here we're having today is about reminding you know our elected officials just down the road who they serve

Sheriff Page:
can I give can I give a thank you I want to thank the united states border patrol cbp I want to thank them I want to thank our ice agents I want to thank our dpsa officers and troopers I want to thank all these governors for the hard work they're putting in to try to protect our border but remember this these guys are protecting America's borders America's borders and if we don't stand up and protect our borders our country won't stand very long

Spencer:
absolutely well sheriff sam page we appreciate you coming on today we know that you're a veteran of the air force we want to thank you for your service thank you for your service right now to this country keep on doing the great work down in north carolina

Sheriff Page:
thank you federation of American immigration reform for giving us opportunity to come and speak to the citizens we serve and also citizenry across the country because they need to hear this message you're not getting this on the news

Spencer:
absolutely thanks for coming on (thank you man)
all right so my next guest is rob law and he is the director of regulatory affairs and policy for the center for immigration studies and prior to his time at cis rob worked for the trump administration at the u.s citizenship and immigration services first as a senior policy advisor and then as chief for the office of policy and strategy and before that he actually worked with me at fair he was our government relations director and you were there you were there from 2013 to 2017. so rob good to see you again thanks for coming on

Rob:
that's right spencer thanks for having me good to see you a good old familiar face

Spencer:
yeah absolutely how's your experience here at feed to fire been so far I know we've been having you hop and going to you know

Rob:
oh it's fantastic there's nothing like the buzz of a feet of the fire you know I loved doing that event when I was at fair and then you know got to have ken cuccinelli here when he was the director of uscis and I know he really thrived in that environment and now yeah and

Spencer:
I guess he liked you enough that he took you over to you know the trump administration

Rob:
exactly and you know and now it's you know now you know moving over to you know to cis after my time at the trump administration it's good to be back and (absolutely) to you know try to help hold their feet to the fire because right there's not enough people that are doing that right now but you've got a great collective group here you know that are really making sure the public knows what's going on

Spencer:
absolutely and if you for any of our listeners that don't know you know cis and fair we work pretty closely together we share a lot of information we're always sort of citing each other in our work and so very closely tied and you know a lot of good stuff happening you know just this event we're having right now it's great to be able to bring individuals from other immigration organizations over to just again hold everyone just two blocks down the street you know hold congress's feet to the fire hold the president's feet to the fire and really it's just kind of a change of pace from most of the events you get in washington dc you know you're connecting with radio hosts that are you know talking to individuals in the middle of the country they are connected to these individuals and it's just been a great it's just been a great experience it is every year so we had some we had some breaking news come on this morning you know while we were getting ready for this event I guess for each of for all of our listeners it'll be probably a few days old at least by the time you hear this but we learned that the senate parliamentarian ruled against the democrats second attempt to stuff amnesty into their I guess reconciliation wish list at this point so rob you're an expert on this so tell me just a little bit what is going on with that is it dead now what's the future of amnesty and reconciliation and what's the next step for democrats who just seem completely determined to get an amnesty passed

Rob:
sure and i'll tell you what one thing about feet of the fire is no matter what time of year you guys have this event it always seems to correspond with some major immigration event I mean I remember back in 2013 my first year the gang of eight bill dropped right two days beforehand so there's already buzz about that I think we had supreme court rulings one year and now as you mentioned the senate parliamentarian ruled this morning that the second attempt to basically ram an amnesty through on a strictly partisan basis is unsuccessful and really this should not be surprising and it's frankly I think just very disingenuous of the democrats to even try this right you know when people say what in the world is budget reconciliation that's a great question you know it's this very archaic and arcane procedural mechanism where you know you have the budget which is what keeps government going absolutely and you're allowed to tweak it and only require 50 votes as opposed to you know your filibuster required 60 votes in the senate but it can't just be anything it has to have a primary purpose of the budget immigration and in particular amnesty not to mention that there was also massive increases in legal immigration absolutely it got overlooked amnesty was so alarming but you know that was also very important as well that is that is immigration policy the big old capital p it of course it impacts the budget everything impacts the budget but it is not a it is the budgetary impact is incidental it is about it is about legalizing illegal aliens it is about giving green cards to folks who otherwise wouldn't get them either today or you know earlier than they otherwise would right and it was this was a loser of an argument and you know there was a concerted effort to basically I think bully the sudden parliamentarian people started talking about her dropping her name and there were you know speeches on the house and senate floor about it and then you had the cyber bullies who got on twitter and started saying things (disgraceful) and you know they put forward this argument that oh it impacts the budget and the amazing thing is the first argument which you know you're supposed to lead with your strongest argument at least that's what I was taught in law school was that oh yeah the amnesty impacts the budget because it will be a net negative to the country so you know there you go all you've heard for years is about how immigrants and illegal aliens are contributors you know some of them are the best and brightest and valedictorians apparently they're a real net fiscal drain but that was the hook that they were going for that it will it will be a deficit right to the budget and that's supposed to be good so (we needed more money to cover that, at least they're finally admitting that ) well so we need it so we need and so yeah I guess oops that one that one's out so she rejected that a few weeks ago and instead of just saying all right we tried but she held firm she did her job frankly they said we're coming back with a plan b and obviously they had to huddle in their dark caves and figure out what in the world can we do so they made this other attempt which is rather ridiculous there is a little known provision our immigration laws it's an immigration registry right and basically this was the date that was used to allow the population that qualified for reagan's amnesty of 86 to say this is the date that you had to be here well 86 amnesty was legislation it was passed by a house in a senate and signed by president reagan that is the way you're supposed to do it if you want

Spencer:
appropriately passed even if it was a bad bill

Rob:
it may have been a very poor policy decision and it was but at least they did it through you know the schoolhouse rock way of doing it well they just said you know what we can do let's just redline that date of sometime in the late 70s and just move it on up maybe it's 2010 maybe it's january 1st 2020 2021 even who knows you know that that's how we can do that yeah that's even less persuasive of a claim and today we did find out that senate parliamentarian yet again ruled against them so at this point I don't know how they could possibly muster anything else

Spencer:
we're hearing a lot of talk about even possibly firing the senate parliamentarian just to pass an amnesty which is ridiculous dangerous in fact in my opinion so if they were to go that radical route would they lose some of their support you know a senator joe manchin or cinema I mean is that is that even a realistic path that they could attempt to take

Rob:
if any of those centers that you just named are truly the moderates that the media describes them as it absolutely should because all it would take is just one of them to defect and it's over all of a sudden chuck schumer is no longer in control of the senate and all of a sudden you actually start to have accountability and oversight so it seems like it might just be too much but yeah I’ve noticed little too many crickets I think on the immigration stuff you know I’ve heard manchin complain about 3.5 trillions too big or this provision or that provision but it hasn't specifically said I find amnesty through reconciliation objectionable

Spencer:
right which is interesting because if you look at polling from west virginia or really the entire nation right now individuals you know Americans don't want to see an amnesty passed in some ways it looks like for someone like a manchin it could even be a political suicide so it's really interesting to think if he's maybe trying to play some other political games you know if I’m concerned about the size of the package well maybe this will be one of the things that's scrapped or is he really okay with an amnesty but not some of these other things which I guess you know maybe there's no way of knowing

Rob:
yeah I mean just too often you see these elected officials who once they get into office they forget that it's actually their constituents out of their boss exactly and they vote for things that are opposed and unpopular from their own constituents so maybe with the exception of california maybe collectively you have a majority there that are all for amnesty and everything else that comes with it almost every single one of these senators is backing a policy that it's really only supported by the most extreme progressive left that don't want there to be any limits on immigration or the you know the chamber of commerce type republicans who just like the access to cheap labor and they just say oh well if it's legal then it's good no no no what is what is the level what is the impact on the wages and opportunities for Americans and that's where you have this fallacy and the republican side of things where they say I’m against illegal immigration but I’m for legal immigration and that is an incomplete statement right okay that's fine you're for legal immigration how much of it exactly you know unlimited is there a number if there's a number what is that number how did you reach that number do you even know what the number is today you know we give out 1.1 million green cards you know a permanent stay in the united states every single year hundreds of thousands of temporary foreign workers as well and I think the American people largely don't know these numbers and when you start to realize that and you can quantify it and qualify it it really paints the bleak picture that American workers get the short end of the stick (absolutely) and the alien benefits because they get us dollars right which is more money than they would make in their home country and the businesses benefit because they have a flatline payroll cheaper labor than they otherwise would in a truly free competitive market and then you know those on the progressive side that are trying to get the amnesty it seems like the calculus is that if we're the party that amnesty's them (they’ll vote for us) they'll get their votes down the road (right) you know that they don't say it as transparent but it seems like why else would you really do it if it wasn't for voters (right there was a lot of interesting focus on when would we make these people eligible to vote in some of their proposals) yeah a certain back dating of it which just seemed like maybe it doesn't get you in for 2024 but it certainly does by 2028 and beyond yeah so yeah it's really a situation where you have a political establishment that does not believe that the American people are the primary stakeholders in immigration policy and that is just wrong and frankly misguided

Spencer:
absolutely and that's why we're having this event right now hold capitol hill accountable let them know that we're paying attention that each and every one of you that are listening are paying attention and that we're not going to forget whether it's in this election or upcoming elections you know you will be held accountable well rob it's been a pleasure chatting with you again thanks for stopping by thanks for all you're continuing to do for this cause and we hope to talk to you again soon

Rob:
oh absolutely don't be a stranger you know how to find me

Spencer:
absolutely I do thanks rob all right now I’m gonna kick it over to my co-host preston huennekens for his special guest

Preston:
all right thanks spencer so once again we are here recording live at fairs hold their feet to the fire radio row event sitting with us now is fair's senior fellow mark morgan the former commissioner of customs and border protection under president trump mark thank you for joining us

Mark:
thanks for personally I tell you what first of all thanks because you're one of the few that actually got the former title right customs border protection they always say customs and border patrol right and everyone knows border patrol is of course a part of the cbp (right) yes of course is customs and border protection and so that actually is my first question for you because I want to get your reaction to what we saw at the border in del rio where border patrol agents were accused of using reigns as whips on haitian migrants this was a story that was taken completely out of context and so I just wanted to get your reaction to that having led um that organization

Mark:
so your first question you want to get me all fired up already (exactly right) so you're smart you're doing this by design so look there's so many things to unpack here so first of all one of the founding principles of this country is a little thing called fair and partial due process right and what happened to that it went out the window completely abdicated completely violated everybody jumped on the bandwagon condemning vilifying scapegoating ruining these agents careers and their reputation without asking a single question without even allowing the investigation inquiry to even begin and here president here's what's really disgusting the secretary Mayorkas he was a former prosecutor he knows he knows better than anybody preston about due process and what did he do he went out there and he was leading the charge to vilify these agents and even after it clearly been proven just so the people listening no whips and they weren't whipping anybody they're used to control the horses on account of the environment by the way is that as a cabinet level official part of his job also is to make sure the white house has the truth look as as a commissioner cbp I was contacted by the press secretary on a regular basis or from their coms team saying hey commissioner xyz is being reported hey is this true or not it could give me we were all they were always asking to make sure they had the truth right what happened here they're either completely incompetent or they're sticking their heads in on purpose because it was a good distraction for them

Preston:
right and I think you made a great point about secretary mayorkas already jumping on the other side of this (absolutely) he came out and all but said that these agents were guilty of what the media accused them of and incredibly President Biden did the exact same thing and when the president of the united states gets on he has a he is the biggest bully pulpit in the world being president united states and he comes out and says we are going to get to the bottom of this and something wrong happened this is not who we are but as you said nothing wrong happened they were these were these were agents who were essentially just doing their job (right) and they were being attacked for by the president of the united states

Mark:
that's right and what happened to President Biden being the great unifier the great if he was a unifier what he would have said is okay folks let's let's tamp down the rhetoric okay let's make sure that as America we support that little thing called due process right let's not jump to any conclusion let's let the investigation pan out and then after we get the results then we'll let you know and we can go from there that's what he should have been doing as a unifier but he didn't just jump on the bandwagon he said right quote they they were being the individuals were being strapped lie they were running over people lie and what's another thing that the president united states state said the most powerful man in the free world they're gonna pay exactly the president saying they're gonna pay and listen one last thing about secretary mayorkas because I have to because everything that comes out of this man is a calculated so you know social activist lie for the for this administration is that when he was down in del rio he actually did okay on this to begin with I have to call balls and strikes he actually said they weren't whips and then what happens he goes back to dc 20 hours later and where does he go shocker wait for it cnn and all of a sudden quote his hit now what he saw 20 hours later were these border patrol agents quote secretary weaponizing horses to attack children and now they're supposed to get a fair impartial hearing that's unbelievable it's you know so I’m still somebody else's word they say it's sick and I agree that's what it is

Preston:
no it absolutely is and this kind of dovetails into my next question which is just the way that the administration has handled the border just broadly obviously is a huge difference from how you did it during the trump administration in your opinion what is the number one thing that this administration has done to create the crisis that we're seeing right now at the border

Mark:
first of all I got to make sure that I need to say this that this administration first of all inherit the most secure border in our lifetime fact period okay next to answer your question the remain in Mexico program out of all the network of tools policies and authorities that president trump provided us to secure the border and stop illegal immigration remain in Mexico and here's why I say that what the driving force behind the massive illegal immigration crisis that we've experienced in were families that were illegally coming into the country because we had a very bad court case called the floor settlement agreement that said you could not keep families for more than 20 days you can't get through the immigration process in 20 days so what that equated to which I think everybody knows by now the infamous catch and release you come to the family illegally that was your passport in the united states we had to release you by that court order and never be heard from again the remain in Mexico stopped that loophole they closed the loophole we stopped and ended catch on release and by february of 2020 we had reduced the illegal flow of unaccompanied minds and families by almost 80 percent it worked it was effective and this administration on day one got rid of it

Preston:
and I think that's a for our listeners we've had podcast episodes about the remain in Mexico program and how important it was as mark just said and so my final question for you mark I want to play a bit of a hypothetical with you so let's say that a republican or someone wins in 2024 and asks you to come and be a part of the administration in a similar role or perhaps in a different role what is the first thing that you're doing in a new administration to take control of the border and to take control of our immigration system

Mark:
work with Mexico immediately to reinstall the remaining Mexico program along all 2000 miles of the u.s Mexico border the second thing I’d do is re-engage the northern triangle countries that we did and secure once again unprecedented asylum cooperative agreements which said if you have a legitimate asylum claim you should file it in the first safe country you come to and you should be barred from filing asylum in the united states if you did not take advantage of that the third thing that I would do is fix the credible fear standard which there is no standard at all you say the magic words you're automatically entered into the silent process we have to fix that we also have to apply consequences which means we have to fund and give the ice the ability to actually enforce an ina by detaining people if you illegally enter the border you're going to be detained while you go through the immigration proceeding and if it's found to be false you're going to be removed and the last thing we need to do is build the wall

Preston:
excellent everyone at home we have been talking to fairs senior fellow mark morgan former commissioner of customs and border protection under president trump mark thank you so much for stopping by and talking with us here (appreciate it thanks) and we are interviewing matthew tragesser our press secretary but who also is responsible for setting up and managing this entire event that we have here at feet to the fire 2021 so matthew thank you for coming on

Matthew:
thanks for having me preston

Preston:
so I just want you to give a sense to our listeners who maybe haven't experienced one of these events before don't know what this is if you could just succinctly tell us what hold their feet to the fire is what the event's purpose is and why we do this every year

Matthew:
sure so this is fair's 14th annual holder feature the fire it's a massive radio row in fact it's the largest radio rail in the entire country believe it or not every year we have about 70 radio host radio stations that come to this event and they come from all parts of the country I mean we got people from hawaii florida texas new england really all over the country and it's really an opportunity for these hosts immigration experts administration officials lawmakers law enforcement really a wide range of people to come together talk about immigration reform talk about what needs to be fixed to fix not only the border crisis but also longer term goals you know some of the issues that we're facing now whether it's the southern border or visa programs they've been issues for this country for many decades we have seen very little improvement and this is an opportunity to really hold you know this administration the biden administration their feet to the fire lawmakers in congress who are you know open borders lawmakers and who are really just jeopardizing our country right now with what they're advocating for so it's a really cool event you know it we this has been an absolutely incredible year because we have this is the first time in almost a decade that we've changed venues so we're outside now on this rooftop it's amazing but it's really been an awesome two days here

Preston:
awesome we love to hear that of course now I want to just ask you just to get a sense of this how much planning goes into this you know when did you when do you have to start planning for an event of this size and this scope what goes into it and just kind of explain for our listeners again just how big of an event this is and your role in managing it

Matthew:
yeah I mean it takes a long time to do this you know I know it's a two-day event but there's a lot of logistics that go into this I mean we're planning way ahead maybe five six months ahead and it's just really it takes a lot of a lot of teamwork to get this running you know we got people from the event site the vendors people on staff you know booking guests booking the radio hosts a lot of coordination and it has to be flawless because they're in here for two days you know you can't be messing up times and you know it really takes a lot of preparation so we're happy that we all kind of meshed well together and everything has been so good so far

Preston:
absolutely and I wanted to ask you what has been your favorite part of this particular feet to the fire event

Matthew:
I think it's just the opportunity to see everybody in person you know you read a lot of people's you know commentary online or you email them frequently throughout the year but to get everyone in one location and you know you're all discussing the same issue it's really cool to put you know people's names to their faces and just have those in-person interactions

Preston:
great well matthew I think I know that you're extremely busy so we will wrap it up with that just wanted to get you quickly on the podcast talking about what you've been doing these past couple of months this has been an enormous ordeal and I know that the entire organization is very thankful for what you've done for this event it's been going off without a hitch and a lot of that is thanks to you so for our listeners at home we've been speaking with matthew tragesser our press secretary he's responsible for putting together this entire event and matthew thank you for coming on and being on the other side of the microphone for the podcast (thank you preston) all right I want to thank everyone at home for tuning into this special recording of the fair understanding immigration podcast we've been recording from fairs hold their feet to the fire 2021 radio row event this was a really interesting event we had a lot of lawmakers a lot of immigration policy analysts and a lot of activists in washington dc for two days to come and discuss one of the most pressing issues our country faces which is immigration and the continued failure of the Biden administration on this issue so we thank everybody for tuning in and until next time this has been understanding immigration presented by fair