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"Mining the hearts and minds of unorthodox teachers"
For the life-long learner who wants honest, human conversations about how we grow, heal, create, and understand ourselves. These are longform dialogues with artists, thinkers, authors, meditators, psychologists, musicians, creatives, leaders, philosophers, healers, and everyday people with something real to teach.
Each episode offers a perspective, story, or insight that tends to lands exactly when someone needs it most. Thoughtful, curious, and quietly life-changing, this show exists to help us live a better life by understanding our own inner world more deeply, through the perspectives of one another.
The Junkyard Love Podcast - for a better life.
The recording is in progress, she says. Better conversations with our Hello, Meredith. Hello, Craig. Welcome to the Junkyard Love podcast. I'm really happy you're here.
Meredith:Thanks, Jacob. We're thrilled to be here.
Craig:So happy to be here, Jacob. Thank you.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've really enjoyed just kind of diving into your guys' work, checking out more of your stuff. I feel like you both have such a a positive, friendly vibe to you. I just I feel like I have a little chip in my in my step as I'm listening to your stuff on my phone.
Jacob:So I I appreciate, just the energy that you guys bring to your content. It's really cool.
Meredith:Oh, thanks. That makes me feel so good.
Craig:Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome to hear. We appreciate that. That's good.
Craig:Like, we that's who we are. We're we're we were approachable. We're, like, kind of, like, the the friends and, like like, that's that's the vibe that we're I'm happy to hear that we're portraying. So that's great.
Jacob:Yeah. The old the old authenticity thing really works.
Craig:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Jacob:Well well, cool. So, get everybody else to where I'm at. Like, I I I'm I'm already falling for you guys. I love your work. I love learning about you.
Jacob:I wanna bring other people aboard. So assuming other people who are listening have never heard of you, they haven't heard of your work, there will be a brief description below. But before they read that, give them a little lowdown of who you are and what you're all about.
Craig:Lead it off. Okay? Usually.
Meredith:Alright. Well, we'll give you a little a little bit of our backstory and how we ended up here because we are marriage coaches, relationship coaches, but that is not what what we've been doing for most of our lives. You know, most of our lives, we learned the the default life. You know, you go to school, you get good grades, you get a good job. So we we were checking all those boxes living our corporate our corporate life, but also feeling a bit like we had more offer the world than we were able to provide in that corporate existence.
Meredith:So we weren't feeling super fulfilled in those jobs. But because that's what we've learned, you know, we were checking all those boxes and by all society's metrics, we were we were we were having a successful a successful life from the outside looking in. And so when our company we work for the same company, actually. When our company decided to close the office that we worked in, move everybody across the country, we were faced with a decision. We could move across the country and keep our jobs or get promoted and all those great things, or we could go.
Meredith:And so it was a really stressful decision at that time because corporate was really all we knew. Even though we weren't super happy there, you know, you could tell the vibe from all of our friends and family was, well, that's the safe, stable, right thing to do. And even though we're very sort of type a plan oriented people, we like to have a full fully baked plan before we jump. That was
Craig:Yeah.
Meredith:The old version of us. We had this feeling inside, like, maybe we could jump. Like, maybe we could. And then at the same time, incredibly, my dad was diagnosed with cancer. And that we we thought it would be his last Christmas, and this is 2020.
Meredith:And so we drove home to spend my what we thought would be his last Christmas with him. Turns out it wasn't. But on our drive back home, it was almost like that was the perspective we needed, that that last Christmas perspective that our parents, his grandmother, they're not getting any younger. And if we move all the way across the country, we're gonna see a whole lot less of them and what's really important to us. And that so that perspective gave us what we needed to be able to actually make the decision to leave our corporate jobs.
Meredith:So we ended up just even though we didn't have a plan, it felt like the right decision inside of us, so we jumped out of the plane and started trying to figure out how to build a parachute on the way down.
Craig:Yeah. Yeah. So, essentially, yeah, we're former corporate employees turned entrepreneurs who are you know, it's a huge mindset shift. So we're we're going through that or we've gone through that, and we continue to go through that process. And, yeah, family first, family oriented.
Craig:Obviously, we wanted to be close to our family and build a life that allowed us to do the things that we love to do and be around the people that we love the most. So that's that's kind of who we are in a nutshell. And, obviously, we left that corporate job. We jumped into real estate because we thought that that was going to be kind of how we could replace our corporate income kind of a little bit quickly.
Jacob:Yeah. What what happened there? I I I hear that real estate wasn't wasn't what you thought it was gonna be.
Meredith:It was not our jam.
Craig:It's not our jam. Like, yeah. It was it was, it we were miserable. Like, we started to go down this path, and and there was an altruistic bend to it. Like, we wanted to help because the the the housing market blew up and everywhere and including here.
Craig:And we wanted to help first time homebuyers who couldn't afford, to your typical mortgage. We wanted to be able to help investors invest their money, but also help those first time homebuyers get their first home. And that was kind of near and dear to our hearts. And and then when we started to go down that path and do that work, we absolutely hated it. And we hated it so much that it started to, like, chip away at our foundation, our relationship a little bit because historically that's been our strength.
Craig:That's our superpower. That's been our bedrock, our foundation. And when we found this starting to, like, chip away at that and kind of affect that, we were like, time out. That that's a no go. That's a non starter.
Craig:So we pulled the pin on that, like, immediately Yeah. And just said, no. This isn't this isn't for us.
Meredith:Which again was not an easy decision. Right? Because we invested in a business code. We got the website. We did the marketing.
Meredith:We invested, like, a bunch of money upfront in this business that we discovered quickly that we hated. And so 6 weeks later, we, like, boarded the you know, in theory, boarded that thing up and said, no. And so we we had that conversation, closed that business, and took a step back because we realized why we were so miserable was that we had started a business, but hadn't yet done the work to decide what we actually wanted our life to look and feel like. What what what did we want our life to be like? And when you don't do that work, weirdly, you don't end up building a business that supports that vision that you didn't create.
Jacob:Yeah.
Meredith:So we took a pause on trying to replace our income and focus on the the the revenue and the money side of things. We completely sort of put that to the side and said, okay. What do we want out of life? And more importantly, who do we wanna be? Like, who are the people that we wanna be in this world, and what do we wanna offer?
Meredith:And and so we sort of ended up falling backwards into personal development because we went to a few investing conferences that had a strong personal growth vibe to them. So we kinda ended up stumbling into the personal growth space, but it was so helpful because it helped us figure out what do we want our life to be like and who do we wanna be. And that's how we ended up eventually finding our way to marriage coaching because as we went to these events, these personal growth retreats and conferences and seminars, people would come up and ask us questions about, you know, we're doing this together and they could feel our our our bond and the strength of our relationship. So they would, how do I do this with my spouse? How do I get my wife on board?
Meredith:How do I get my husband to do you know, so we were answering these questions all over the place with these people that were mostly strangers, but they were you know, we're getting to know them a little bit. And then finally, we were at one of these events, and the guy hosting the event said, at my next event, I want you to to speak at the event on stage about relationships. And we were like, oh, maybe we have something real to offer here and that, you know, we had to codify our situation and do a lot of research, but that that talk ended up being the foundation for what we do now.
Jacob:Okay. So where have you got so where you guys started with that talk, like, the things that you spoke about on stage Yeah. Versus where you're at now.
Craig:Mhmm.
Jacob:What has changed? Like, what are the key parts that you kept? What what are kind of the continuous responses to questions that people would ask you about that were really I mean, I think you've used the word foundational a couple times. I really like that. What were the foundational questions both back then and now that seem to be hard hitting for people?
Jacob:Like, woah. Okay. That's really something that's we should listen to that.
Craig:So I I think the one of the biggest questions we were getting at these events was this is like, because they hear our story and know that we were, like, basically leaving our corporate jobs to come into entrepreneurship and doing that together. And they they would see that. And these are a lot of entrepreneurs and people who are kind of on that similar journey. And they'd be like, that's gotta be incredibly stressful. How do you make that work?
Craig:Because there has to be so much friction. And then we started to realize that we have some some things that we do just naturally. And then so when we built our talk, we built it on the the pillars of how we basically manage our relationship. And so it initially started out as 3 pillars Mhmm. That we've initially on that talk, it was, the commitment to obviously yourself.
Craig:You have to you have a relationship with yourself first and foremost. You come into the world your by yourself and you leave the world chances are by yourself. And so the one relationship you have from start to finish is the one you have with yourself. So you have to be in alignment with yourself. You have to know yourself, love yourself, and take care of that relationship first and foremost.
Craig:So that's the first pillar. And then the second one is the commitment to the relationship that you're actually in with someone. So that's like your typical, like, communication, intimacy, trust, like building on those things. Those are all foundational to this relationship. It's also foundational to the relationship with yourself, but it's also foundational to this relationship.
Craig:So that's one of the pillars. And then the third one is it was a commitment to fun and adventure. And the reason that's such a pillar for us is that, you know, when things stop becoming fun, you stop wanting to engage. You pull away. You actually extricate yourself from it.
Craig:So it has to remain fun and there has to be a sense of adventure. And so that was the initial talk. And since then we've added a commitment to the future. You have to have a shared common vision. Mhmm.
Craig:Because it's one thing to know, you you know, you've got the commitment to yourself, the relationship, and fun, but you have to know what is the vision, what is the the the shared common vision that we're keeping together. Where's what's our dream? What are we doing? And then encompassing all of that is a is a 200% 200% marriage mindset because, marriage isn't 5050. Like, it's a myth.
Craig:Like, we we we grow up believing that marriage is 5050. We hear it all the time, but 5050 leaves room for gaps. Like, well, is that my 50% or is that your 50%? And I apologize first last time. I don't think I should this time.
Craig:And you did this, so I'm not gonna do that. And when you get into that, you get into scorekeeping and that fractures the relationship. So it's really about having a 100%. Each person giving 100% and taking 100% full responsibility for the marriage.
Jacob:Wow. Okay. Yeah.
Craig:Go ahead, Meredith. Those are the pillars.
Jacob:Yeah. If you have anything to add, Meredith, feel free.
Meredith:No. He he so those were the 3 pillars we started with. We have since added the 4th pillar and then almost, like, the the circle around it all is the mindset that you need, the 100% responsibility. Each of you taking 100% responsibility for the state for for your marriage for the state of your marriage.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so powerful. Okay.
Jacob:So backing up just to hear it. When you guys were initially having these conversations, like, you're both going, k. We have this change. We could move. We have this potential opportunity.
Jacob:Listen. We're both not the happiest we've ever been. I mean, even being able to approach that conversation with a level of of truth and not I mean, I think this is such a powerful thing about marriage is your your answer to those questions could be, alright, how do we do this together? How do we both lean in? So I guess I'm just kinda curious how you guys went from those seemingly probably very difficult stressful conversations in that moment to landing on let's lean in harder than ever to our marriage and do this together.
Jacob:Because I think that, you know, I think that so often we could be kind of on our own island. Like like, what do I need to do? And, like, you know, maybe my wife has it all figured out, and I what do I wanna accomplish? I I just think it's so powerful and so cool really that you guys leaned into each other and leaned into the marriage. I I guess if if if what message would you have for other people having those difficult conversations, and why would you encourage them to lean into the marriage?
Meredith:I think those difficult conversations are what is the foundation of your marriage. A lot of times, I think we're a little bit nervous of those of those difficult conversations because they're uncomfortable. Like, having those initial conversations about leaving the corporate job were uncomfortable. To be to be fair, we never ever contemplated not doing it together, and I think part of that was we're either moving or we're not. So it wasn't like one of us is gonna move and keep a corporate job and one of us is not.
Meredith:There was a little more nuance to it than that where we maybe could've done something separate, but really we didn't really consider ever not making the decision to to together to either keep corporate jobs, find new corporate jobs, not move and find because the third option really was we don't move, but we find new corporate jobs Right. And stay where we are. So there was really three options, but we never really considered ever separating our paths. I think that was just that's just sort of a foundational piece to our relationship that we always feel like we're on the same team. We're in it together and working.
Meredith:We know we're stronger as a team. We just it wasn't even a conversation that we had to discuss that we're stronger as a team. It was just an inherent belief that we had that we're stronger as a team. So the conversation was around what should we do as a team together.
Craig:I I would say that it it's more than a conversation in our situation is that we had built the foundation and built the bond to the point where it just went without saying that we were on this path together. Like, this was this was just us. This is what we do now. We are just gonna figure this out together. And I think that it really takes a lot of upfront work to do that.
Craig:You like, you have to show up every day. You have to like, it's basically following the 200% marriage mindset and being there and and having that level of trust that the other person is not only your teammate, but your biggest cheerleader. Like, they're they're there. They're they're championing you. They're they're by your side.
Craig:And and most of the time, they're shoulder to shoulder doing the thing with you.
Jacob:Yeah.
Craig:And so it wasn't really, yeah, necessarily a conversation as much as we just were like, okay. Let's just, like, strap on and let's go let's go do this.
Meredith:And I think to your point that building that level of trust, building that foundation comes from being able to have these really honest conversations as they come up in your life and in your relationship. And I think a lot of times, we human beings shy away from uncomfortable conversations because they're uncomfortable. Like, we're we seek comfort. Like, evolutionarily, that's what we do. And so knowing that you're gonna have a difficult conversation, you know what's gonna be uncomfortable.
Meredith:So a lot of times, we seek the short term relief, but that often so we we we seek the short term comfort, but that oftentimes breeds long term dysfunction in your relationship if you keep avoiding the difficult conversation. Because it's those difficult conversations that cement you together. Every single time you decide not to share something, not to bring up something, not to have that conversation, you're putting a brick in the wall between you. And the more bricks you put, the further away you get. And that's why the most common thing we hear today is disconnected, distance, walking on eggshells, and that all has come from being unwilling to engage in a short term just uncomfortable conversation.
Jacob:And
Meredith:so when you can keep having those uncomfortable conversations, and they don't always happen all the time, but they they come up in the scope of normal life. When you can be willing to have that uncomfortable conversation when they're necessary, then your partner feels like you're in the foxhole together. Right? Like, we're willing to embrace discomfort together in the name of moving our relationship and our life towards where we wanna go.
Craig:Yeah. I think one of the key things is that vulnerability is actually a superpower in your relationship. So if you can if you can get to that level and you're open and vulnerable and sharing the things that that are inside you with your partner, it builds that trust and it builds that foundation where then things just become a little bit easier to, like, in our situation where we just were like, okay. Let's just go and do this. Like, we're we're doing this together.
Craig:And it's because we built that foundation being vulnerable with each other and sharing, letting each other in, sharing our deepest, darkest fears, secrets, dreams, and all of that. So that's what it really comes down to is building that foundation.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's so beautiful. That's so powerful. I just I love thinking about the, you know, when you make a decision in its in its final, it eliminates all these other options and it just it quiets your mind in a way.
Jacob:I I was using this example yesterday of, with my friend. I don't eat gluten. And so it just eliminates gluten from the option. Like, I walked down the bread aisle, and I just know I don't have to think about it. I'm not gonna have any of this stuff.
Jacob:And so it just makes it easier for me to to to make decisions about my food or whatever. I think marriage can be I mean, if you have those difficult conversations from the beginning and you really take, you really take time to develop kind of that conversation of where are we headed? What do we each want out of life? What do we want out of life together? It just kind of, like, takes off these other options later on.
Jacob:And so you already so you come up against this situation with you guys where you have an opportunity to take the leap, you know, and like you said, build your parachute on the way down. But if you guys didn't have that prior foundation of, hey. We're we're doing this together. We're on the same page. Whatever you do, I do.
Jacob:Like, that that sort of thing. So my my rambling question that I wanna get to here, you 2, is and and I think it correlates to what we're just talking about is what is the difference between what you 2 have, what you 2 have built, and signing your piece signing your name on a piece of paper for a marriage. I I I think people kinda cheapen marriage sometimes on accident without really thinking deeply about it. And I just think it's such a powerful relationship and commitment, and it's so much more than just signing a piece paper. So tell me your thoughts on that.
Meredith:Yeah. I mean, signing a piece of paper is easy. Like, it's it's very comfortable. It's very easy. Oftentimes, it's very fun because there's a big celebration attached to it.
Meredith:So we put a lot a lot of specialness on signing that piece of paper. But signing that and and I, you know, I love marriage. I believe marriage is very important. I'm not diminishing the value of being married and signing that piece of paper, but it's it's step 1 a. Like, it's the very teeny tiniest step that is required to build the marriage.
Meredith:Like, being married versus building the marriage are 2 very, very different things because you can be married, but never ever build the marriage where you feel like you're on the same team, where you give each other the benefit of the doubt, where you're truly deeply connected and can share all the ugly stuff and the uncomfortable stuff. Even though you don't like it, you still share it. Because when you do, you feel like you're in it together, and you can't build that without actually doing it. You can sign a piece of paper, and it's it takes a second, and it's done. You can't build the the team.
Meredith:You can't build the marriage without doing the dirty work, without doing the difficult thing, without actually doing the stuff.
Jacob:Yeah.
Craig:A 100% agree. I don't know if there's much I can add to that.
Jacob:So well.
Craig:Yeah. Yeah. Mic drop.
Jacob:Okay. So what is, carrying on with my questions here, what's the North Star of your marriage?
Craig:So we have now a dream life that we have that it's a dream life vision and it's, we we're type a, so it's in a spreadsheet. We've got a bunch of stuff in a spreadsheet of of things that we wanna achieve in life. And for us, it's really building a business that can give give people the gift that we have in our marriage. We wanna help as many people as we possibly can to have this. We think it's a cheat code to life.
Craig:Like it it really is a cheat code. When you can have build your dream, and you do it with your best friend and you can do that and have all this energy because you're not spending it on trying to fix problems in your marriage or repairing your marriage. It's it's you've already done you're doing that consistently. You're doing the maintenance on your marriage and it's in a place where it's running really beautifully. You've got all this extra energy to put towards your goals and your dreams and the business, the things that you really wanna do in this world, all that energy.
Craig:And not only just you, but your partner has all that energy and it just exponentially grows and you can just go further faster. And so for us, really, it's about equipping other couples with a marriage of their dreams. And it may not be exactly like ours, but whatever their marriage of their dreams is for them and helping them build their dream life, that's our ultimate north star is to help as many people
Meredith:do that as we possibly can. And to speak about it a little more sort of tactically, like, when we built our dream life vision, like, at the very beginning before we even got into the coaching when we had to take that step back, we just looked at our life and we're like, what do we want? Like, where do we wanna live? What do we want our free time to look like? What do we want the relationships in our life to look like?
Meredith:Not just this one, but with our family and our friends and, all the important relationships in our life. What do we want our health and vitality to look and feel like? And then what do we want the professional, the business, the that side of our life to be like? And we got separately really super crystal clear on what the dream was and all of those categories separately. And then we brought those dreams together to create our shared common vision for the future so that we had this, you know, joint vision of a North star that was really specific.
Meredith:Like, when when we're doing it, it's like, I can feel the breeze off the ocean in the house we're gonna build. Like, I'm, like, getting really specific in what that dream sort of looks and feels like so that it becomes a little bit more real. And then when you bring them together, then you have you end up with this shared common vision, and you know exactly where you're going together so that you're in the same boat rowing in the same direction day by day, which just kind of inherently breeds the benefit of the doubt and that teamwork vibe.
Craig:And all those things that we have that we wanna accomplish, they're all made easier by serving others to get theirs. Mhmm. Like, that that's the thing about this world is, like, when you help people and you serve and you get people to what they want, just just buy a byproduct is of that is that you also achieve your north star and you get you get to check all those boxes for yourself as well. So
Jacob:Yeah. It it is interesting. The the older I get, the more I learn more and more about service and what it means to me and what it Yeah. Means, like, to reality. It is pretty fascinating.
Jacob:The the beautiful doors that open when you just stop thinking about yourself and just try to serve someone else. It's it's really a wonderful thing.
Craig:Yeah.
Jacob:I wanted to ask about okay. So say someone's listening to this right now. Say this is, you know, the the wife in in the in the marriage, the wife in the relationship. They got a pretty good marriage, but they're listening to this going like, I, you know, I kinda wanna take it to the next level. I wanna have these conversations.
Jacob:We've you know, we're close, but we've never really had these deep, what do you want out of life, what do you wanna accomplish together. And I don't know if this comes up often. It just kinda seems like maybe it would. But, say one person's listening to it right now, and they wanna go to their husband or their wife and say, hey. I I listen to this podcast.
Jacob:It kinda gave me some ideas. What do you think about this? What's the best approach for that conversation, would you say?
Meredith:I think the best approach for that conversation is is is applying what you're hearing here, which is, like, coming at it with a really open heart. Like, being a little bit vulnerable, like, what what from a tactical perspective first, finding the right time. Like, if someone's in the middle of some kind of chaos, when you're trying to have one of these more vulnerable conversations, the time is not right if someone else is very distracted in the in the middle of doing something sort of sort of very, very focused or or or even chaotic. So I think the first step is for for sure finding the right space, the right container for this conversation, and and it might be I wanna talk to you about something that I heard today, when's a good time, or just finding quiet time for both of you where you can be connected. Because I think a lot of times, we're ready to have a conversation.
Meredith:Our spouses their mind is completely elsewhere, and we wanna lay this heavy conversation on them and said, woah. Woah. Woah. Like, I'm not in a head space to work over my heart and share my hopes and dreams. Like, I'm mentally making it to do list or I'm in the middle of writing an email or what whatever it is.
Meredith:So the first step I think is finding the right time and space. And if there's never a perfect time and space, of course, it's not about putting it off forever, but it's about when can you both not be distracted and both be engaged meaningfully in a conversation together. So when you can find that time in your day, so not putting it off for a week, but you can find that time today sometime, then it's leading with an open heart and being specific. Like, I heard this today, and this hit me because and this is how I am feeling about it. So speaking in in specifics from the eye perspective, because I think a lot of times we also sometimes have these conversations after we've gotten frustrated with something and it's becomes a lot of generalities.
Meredith:We never have these conversations. We never share this stuff. I always I always you never. Those types of lead ins and those types of responses and conversations are not effective. It creates defenses, and defenses are the last thing we want when we wanna be vulnerable and have an honest conversation.
Meredith:And so finding the right time and space and then leading with how it's impacting you and what you wanna get out of this conversation, whether that's let's sit down and listen to it together, and then we can because we do this a lot actually. If we're listening to audiobooks and podcasts, we do that a lot, especially when we're driving. And then it's like, oh, pause. Let's talk about that for a minute. So a lot of times, it's helpful.
Meredith:Like, you've got something out of this podcast. So invite your spouse along, listen to it again, then you guys can pause together and, like, this really hit me because remember when this happened, this is actually how I was feeling about that. And so maybe we could try and apply this, And then it becomes a really specific conversation, because also you're coming in with that 100% responsibility mindset and not the sort of this is your 50%. You didn't do your job. Therefore, I'm gonna if you come in with your 100% responsibility and this is how I'm feeling and this is what I think I need to do to show up the best in our marriage and it would be great if you could help me, like, having those conversations and pausing through this podcast and having those conversations together.
Meredith:I think that would be really effective.
Craig:And I think one other thing is just always lead with curiosity and ask questions. Like, I I heard this on a podcast today, and I was wondering if you had some time. I'd love to ask you a couple questions. Like, what what do you see as our as your perfect dream life vision? And and in what what what does your health look like?
Craig:Like, just ask specific questions. And then it doesn't feel as though, like, it's a like, it's it's almost like just a conversation like we're having. It's just questions and answers and then follow-up. And it doesn't have to be this big intimidating crazy conversation. It really can just be as simple as just ask some questions and and then follow-up with some of your thoughts.
Craig:And just before you know it, you've got some sort of a vision that you can just kinda jot down and and kind of figure out, okay. Well, this is what you said and this is what I'm thinking. There's a lot of overlap here. Let's start building towards this. Mhmm.
Jacob:Yeah.
Meredith:You said earlier vulnerability is a superpower in your relationship, which it is. Curiosity is another superpower in your relationship. Yeah. Showing up with genuine curiosity
Craig:Yeah.
Meredith:Will completely transform most conversations. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. I mean, I I see how your, your pillar was at the 3rd pillar that was, about fun. Yeah. Yeah. I I see how that's so important in that.
Jacob:Because to me, like, if I was bringing up to my spouse, like, hey. There's this podcast I heard, and it made me think about my life, and it made me think about Amer. I mean, that sounds so fun and exciting to plan out together and, like, just being in that car ride together, thinking about where you wanna head. And I I think that's that's massively fun. That's that's a very very important pillar.
Jacob:I love that.
Craig:Totally.
Jacob:Yeah. So I I, I I was kinda curious. So you guys have been how long have you been coaching now? How long have you been, like, working with other people and clients and other marriages?
Craig:So it's 2024, so, like, two and a half years. Yeah.
Jacob:Okay. So so what is coming up super commonly? Like, what are you hearing? You guys present, or or people come to you? What is kinda like, what do they hand you when when they come to you, or what is kind of a reoccurring theme, that that listeners could could perhaps resonate with?
Meredith:Yeah. Big big theme we hear a lot is the the disconnection, the loss of intimacy Yeah. Physical or emotional, but you feel like you're roommates instead of a married couple. You feel like you're walking on eggshells, afraid of of triggering the next argument. You're just feeling very disconnected.
Meredith:Like, you haven't had a real conversation in, you know, a long time. You can't remember the last time you had fun or just sat down and talked together. Like, that sort of theme of disconnection, I would say, is humongous. Yeah.
Craig:I would say it's the biggest one for sure. Yeah.
Meredith:You you you definitely hear, like, within that, the the communication focus on we we just we can't ever get in the same page in a conversation. Like, I say blue, he hears red, and then we never can sort of get ourselves aligned. Yeah. Trust is is another one that comes up. They'll kinda come back to
Craig:the same thing. They've been disconnected. So the trust isn't there because they're completely disconnected, and they haven't shown up for each other in the way that they could have showed up in this relationship. And so a lot of the time, it's it's really just they've they've not put in the level of intention into their marriage that they wouldn't say, like, their job. Like, they go to their job and they're very specific.
Craig:They have a a set of tasks that they need to do, and they show up and they make sure that those tasks are done.
Jacob:Well,
Craig:in your marriage, there's things that you have to show up for and do. And and it it or you're going to get a situation where your spouse doesn't trust you because you don't show up to do the things that they expect should be done. Mhmm. And so it's really about being intentional in your marriage like you would in other parts of your life. And and yeah.
Craig:So I'd say disconnection is probably the biggest one.
Jacob:And I
Meredith:I think that a lot of that comes from, you know, you you got married, you signed the paper, you're you built this relationship, and then you trust that it's always gonna be there. I'm gonna for now, I'm gonna kind of focus over here and get my career really ramped up or my business, if you're an entrepreneur, really ramped up and, like, I'm trusting that this is always gonna be here. But when you stop paying attention to something over here, it it's not always gonna be there in the same way that it was. And so you have the best most people have the best of intentions like, I love my spouse. We have a great relationship.
Meredith:I'm gonna go over here and build this business and support my family and be the provider that I need to be. But in the meantime, over here, people are feeling unappreciated, undervalued, unheard, unseen, disrespected, and that breeds that disconnection.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. So so it sounds like marriage is like plants, need sunlight and water.
Craig:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Meredith:Yeah. They they're not it's to your point, I think it's intention, and there's, like, certain it's it's it doesn't take a lot of time and energy necessarily in the maintenance phase. It's it's, you know, check-in questions. It's making a little bit of time every day to have an actual conversation with your spouse to to find the fun in your mundane daily life activities or find a space for fun in your life. Because when you think about it, when you're having fun together, the communication's flowing easily.
Meredith:You're feeling really connected. You're intimate. You're trust. Like, all of those things feel very easy when you're having fun. And so if you can make time to whatever you like to do, play cards, go dancing, like, whatever it's different for everybody, but when you can make time for those things regularly, it's just it's just maintenance.
Meredith:It doesn't take a lot of time and effort and then you the the what you reap from that is just exponential.
Craig:And then the one other thing I'll say is also following through and doing what you say you're going to showing up when you say you're gonna show up and do the things that you say you're gonna do.
Jacob:Mhmm. Right.
Craig:That's a That's a big leads to a lot of broken trust, otherwise.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. That's a huge one. That that's a constant work I think we're all all working on, but if we can show up and be honest about it and, like, yeah, communication goes goes such a long way. So so what what is what what seemed to be the actionable steps that work for people?
Jacob:I I've heard of, I don't know if you guys heard of doctor Jordan Peterson. He's like a philosopher, but I I love the way that he talks about his marriage. I I I admire him. He he talks about how he's been with his wife Tammy for many, many years, and they schedule things, like, every week together, and they're pretty strict about it. Like, they literally have a room in their home for dancing together once a week.
Jacob:Yeah. And, like, oh my gosh. She was talking about that. I'm like, what a beautiful, powerful, incredible I mean, you could be annoyed the momentum of life and all these things you got going on, and you didn't do the dishes last night and blah blah blah, but then you're forced for a certain amount of time to dance with someone you love in a room. I mean, come on.
Craig:Yeah. Absolutely.
Jacob:Great. So so what does that look like in your guys' world? So maybe, Nava, if if you don't mind, what do you guys do in your marriage specifically, that's, like, scheduled, planned? Do you have conversation? You know, every Monday, we sit down for this amount of time or whatever.
Jacob:And then what do you encourage others to do? And and even, like, what's the lowest hanging fruit? So even if we're not ready to embark on this, like, let's change everything about our marriage right now. What can we do today as as people who, I'm not in a relationship, but it but it for people who are, what small step could they begin to take?
Craig:I think one thing easy right off the bat is have a nonnegotiable date. It's like date night, date time, whatever it is, whatever it could fit in your schedule. Whatever it is.
Meredith:To be a date night.
Craig:But But, like, one once a week, nonnegotiable. This is we this is us time. No phones. No nothing. It's just you and me doing our thing.
Craig:I would say easy, low hanging fruit, nonnegotiable do that. Mhmm. And then above and beyond that, we have regular, like, daily check ins where we ask very specific question, and it's like, what was the best part of your day? It's not how was your day because how was your day leads to fine or good or a big, you know, blah of their full like a full discourse of the whole day. But I ask you a very specific question of, like, what was the best part of your day?
Craig:And it gets you it gets them to talk to you about what was really good about their day and then you get to learn a little bit about their day and you can ask them follow-up questions. But it's just a check-in. It shows that you care. It shows that If you wanna be engaged in their
Meredith:day wanna be involved. Yeah. They they feel like you care enough to ask something specific, which prompts them to think more about the answer and give you back something specific. So not only do you learn something about their day and actually get to be involved in it, but they feel like you want to be. So that is just a nice way to maintain connection in a relationship is just a really specific check-in question.
Meredith:What's the best part of your day? What made you laugh today? You know, what what was your favorite lesson you learned today? Like, something just specific that prompts a thoughtful answer that can lead to a conversation. And we do that, like, kind of at bedtime as we're getting ready for bed and, like, getting in bed.
Meredith:It's dark. It's also I I find that to be a little bit of a cheat code because when the lights are off, you're almost you're willing to be a little more vulnerable, it feels like. So you're you may answer a question slightly differently during that time than you would if you were doing the dishes after supper or getting supper dinner ready or whatever the case may be. So I think that one is is a one that we do every day. We do have the nonnegotiable date time every week.
Meredith:And then a weekly connection conversation, like a I like to call it a left them in conversation. And it's almost like it's like we talked about earlier, but it's what's keeping you up at night? What is stressing you out? What's got you frustrated? What are you worrying about?
Meredith:Like
Craig:How can I support you? What what what
Meredith:are you working toward? What what's the goals coming up? Because sometimes we're a little bit afraid to share our goals because they might seem silly or we're afraid to share what's keeping us up at night because we wanna protect them. And it's comes with the best of intentions, that you you don't wanna burden your spouse. You know, you got something that's stressing you out at work or with your business and you you you know you're gonna take it on.
Meredith:You know you're gonna get it figured out. But meanwhile, it's kinda eating at you right now because it's a lot and it's heavy, but you don't wanna share it because you don't wanna stress them out either. But at the same time, they can tell that you're not sharing something. The energy, the bit off. And as human beings, we tend to make up stories to fill in gaps always, and so your spouse is gonna start to tell stories about why you're not sharing things even though you're doing it out of love and you're trying to protect them.
Meredith:It's creating distance between you. So I love once a week, Saturday, Sunday, usually, over the weekend. Having a conversation where you're kinda laying there from the week before, like, these were the highs and lows. This is what I'm working toward. This is what's keeping me up at night.
Meredith:This is what I'm stressing about next week so that you kinda finish the week together and are aligned to start the week, and there's nothing sort of in between. There's no blocks or bricks between you to start the next week. It's a real, like, connection building conversation.
Craig:Yeah. And then the one other thing all day is nonnegotiable hugs. Whenever someone asks for a hug, they just get a hug. That's the rule. And do it for 20 seconds.
Craig:That's when the oxytocin, the happy hormones start to release.
Meredith:So Yeah. That's a great marriage rule.
Craig:Yeah.
Meredith:Ask for a hug, you get a hug. No matter what is happening, no matter how frustrated, upset, angry, you know, anything anybody is, if one of you asks for a hug, they get a hug always. No questions asked.
Jacob:I love that. Yeah. We've got a we're living with an oxytocin producing factory right next to us. You know? Sometimes we can we could use a little of that.
Jacob:Yeah. I love that. I love that. Okay. Let's see.
Jacob:What else? I I okay. I I was kinda I didn't know how to how to approach this. I hope it doesn't turn into, like, an icky icky corner, but, I wondered me from my perspective, just being honest with you, I'm I'm a single fella. I'm not in a relationship.
Jacob:I'm on the stinking dating apps. Modern dating is there's a million things we could say about it. I see, like, so much there's so much, like, nonmonogamous relationships people people are into. I feel like a lot of times I'm going through dating apps and people just have these, like, long lists of things that like, you better match these things before you even get a date with me. I don't know.
Jacob:I'm not trying to bring my, like, weird perspective or my weird weird, experience of just myself of dating apps in in that world, but I I feel like you guys are just have good advice. So so the person who I wanna get married. I I wanna have kids. I wanna have a family, but I I don't wanna put so much pressure on on meeting people. I guess, like, do you have any advice for for a 33 year old man in the dating market, I I suppose?
Meredith:Sure. I mean, I was single for a decade before I met him. Like, I had a pretty serious relationship, and then I was single for a decade, and then I met him. And I did the dating app thing. Like, I get it.
Meredith:I hated dating. It was brutal. I I I just I really did not enjoy the dating scene, and I felt a lot of pressure from my friends, from my circles to not have such high expectations. Like, I was getting a lot of from my friends, you gotta lower your expectations. You know?
Meredith:There's a lot of great people. Like, why aren't you willing to settle for something that's good enough? And, 1, boy, am I glad I didn't listen to anybody and settle. Like, I don't know what it was within me that wouldn't let me settle, and, she's Louise. I am very glad I didn't settle, and I always believed there was someone out there that would challenge me and love me and support me the way he does.
Meredith:So my first advice is Don't
Jacob:settle.
Meredith:Don't settle. And the dating apps didn't work for me either, so I I totally I totally get that. I think the second thing is just to take the lens of more of an adventure.
Craig:Yeah.
Meredith:Like, be adventurous in it. I think we get so tunnel vision on what we think we want, and we dismiss what we think we don't want when if we just have the attitude of adventure, like, who knows this this person may or may not be the love of my life, but they may be a really cool person I can do fun things with or, having a a bit more of a open an open frame of mind and an open lens to the value anyone can bring to your life beyond the romantic relationship because, I mean, we were friends first. Like, when we met, we we didn't immediately start dating. Took long enough. We finally did.
Meredith:Not too long, but, like, long enough. And so I think it was not and everyone's kind of in different places in their life, and so sometimes a little bit of patience is required. But I think that that lens of adventure
Craig:Yeah.
Meredith:Is really helpful.
Craig:100%. Yeah. I think you like taking some of that almost, like, taking the edge off, taking the importance off the the
Jacob:the the the the
Craig:weight of it all of trying to find this person. If you just go into it with whether this is a the person that I spend the rest of my life with or not, either way, I'm gonna have a good time. I'm gonna meet a friend. Maybe maybe they're not even gonna be a friend, but whatever it is, they're in my life for a reason. And just going into it with that attitude of adventure and exploration and, yeah, taking some of that pressure off.
Jacob:Mhmm. Yeah.
Craig:But, yeah, it's a good point around, yeah, just just fun and don't settle because the things that make you you, they're nonnegotiable. You can't you if if if you have values and things that you hold dear, you cannot compromise those. If you compromise those, ultimately, you're gonna not only feel unfulfilled in the relationship, you're also gonna feel unfulfilled just as a person, like, inside of you. You're gonna be at odds with yourself. You're gonna start to not even like yourself.
Craig:You're not gonna feel like yourself. You're not gonna start to like yourself because you're not actually even being you anymore. So it's really about making sure that you do not settle or, I guess, go against your values.
Meredith:So one funny story that I shared a couple of places actually, and I usually talk about it in terms of vulnerability, but I think it also applies to what you just said about actually showing up as yourself and being you and letting people sort of see you. And so it was early days. We were just sort of getting to know each other, and we were just talking. And that was actually the very first sign that I was like, yeah, this guy. Because the conversation just flowed so easily for us that I was like, there's something special here that's separate.
Meredith:When we were having this conversation around kinda getting to know each other, he asked me if I liked Star Wars. Silly little kind of get to know you question, whatever. My interpretation of, you know, pop culture is that most dudes seem to like Star Wars. I am not a giant Star Wars fan. So I was a little bit hesitant of, like, oh, do I tell him I don't like Star Wars?
Meredith:Like, I want him to like me because I like him, you know, that that whole, like, wanting to fit in and wanting to be the person I think he wants me to be. And then I had a moment of clarity, thankfully, where I said, what I'm gonna I'm gonna lie about something. Hey. That's kinda silly like this. Like, I'm gonna build this whole thing on a stupid little lie.
Meredith:And, also, if that's enough for him to say, oh, I'm done with her, then probably he's not the guy for me anyway. And so maybe I will just actually be me and see if we fit together. And if we do great, and if we don't, okay. But if we don't, then he's obviously not the right person for me. So just be you and see how it goes.
Meredith:And that's not necessarily anything I had been doing up to that point. Like, I'm very much a people pleaser, always wanting to fit in. And so I was always trying to be the person I thought everyone wanted me to be. And I had that one moment of clarity and said, actually, Star Wars isn't really my jam. He's like, oh, me neither.
Craig:I was like,
Meredith:all that mental turmoil for nothing. But I it was such an important lesson for me in that moment to actually not be afraid to be honest about who I am in the silly things, but doing that made it easier for me later with him to be more honest about the bigger things.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, man, that that's all such great advice. I thank you so much.
Jacob:Thanks for even letting me ask that. I think that's so cool. I yeah. You know, sometimes I get caught up in in realizing, oh, I'm trying really hard or I'm you know, you're you're putting too much wood on the fire and suffocating the oxygen. You know?
Jacob:And so I'm always just trying to work on, I think that's a great note to just just have fun with it. That's what I'm trying to do here at the
Craig:end of the day. Fun. Be you, and it'll happen. Like, it it's it's the universe has a like, there's the universe is always working in your favor. It's going to work out exactly how it's supposed to.
Craig:And likely when you're least the least amount of effort, the least amount of trying is when it's just gonna, like, oh, boom. Get struck by lightning at a random event or something that you're at and, like, it'll just be like a chance thing that
Meredith:you're gonna
Craig:be able to afford.
Meredith:As being single for 10 years when everyone said, it'll happen when you least expect it. I wanted to punch them all in the face. I always hated hearing that. However, I wasn't expecting to meet him when I did. So, like, oh, it kind of annoys me that I wasn't wrong, but I always hated to hear that.
Meredith:So I Same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. I had a, one of the older guys that I work with kinda a few months back had given me the same thing. And I I I believe it, but I also yeah. I'm with you.
Jacob:I rolled my eyes for sure. But,
Craig:yeah. For sure.
Jacob:It it's a truth. Cool. We're we we are getting up here in time. I just have, one more question for you, and then I would love to just hear where we can go to find all of your info, where we could reach out, where where we could listen to more of your stuff. But first, before that, someone who's listening right now.
Jacob:Maybe they just clicked on this, and they're like, oh, something cool podcast. And they listen to it, and they're like, I need to have a conversation with my spouse. I didn't realize that I we haven't had deep conversation in a while. I don't know where we're heading. I don't know where to open our sails of our boat at because I don't know which wind is gonna you know, where's our destination?
Jacob:So see if someone finds himself in that position right now, what what do you have to say to them?
Meredith:I think you need to have a an honest con well, you know what? Before before you even have the honest conversation, I think you need to sit down yourself and decide what do you actually want your dream life to be? What is your north star? Where do you wanna go? And then you can have that conversation and your spouse can do the same thing and bring those together.
Meredith:But I I think a lot of times we we spend the time and we jump into the the work together when, like, we talked about the very first pillar, the first commitment is the commitment to yourself.
Jacob:Yeah.
Meredith:And so, you know, getting right with you and being clear on, okay, we haven't had that conversation on where we're headed collectively as a as a couple, as a family unit. Where do I wanna be going? What, like, what do I see in the future for me and for us? And then once you have a little bit of that clarity yourself, it almost gives you a little bit of confidence going into that conversation, that that we need to have this conversation together, but we also need to do this work individually first and bring those to the table so you both can feel seen and heard and valued in that integration conversation where you're bringing those two visions together into one shared common vision.
Jacob:Yeah.
Craig:I totally agree. Yeah. I think it's it's really just understand what you want and then simply just ask. And and, again, vulnerability and curiosity. Yeah.
Craig:Get vulnerable and share what you share your vision and get curious and ask them about theirs. And again, make sure that it's the right time and they're not distracted, but but, you know, set aside some time. Have a have a an hour set aside, distraction free, no phones. Just the
Meredith:2 of us face to face having a conversation, and just get vulnerable and get curious. Actually, I also find one little cheat code that I think is helpful for some more deeper conversations is to do it while you're walking. We make sure to go for a walk every day. Yeah. That's good.
Meredith:That with the blood going and being out in the fresh air, there's just something about the creativity. And also sometimes not looking like eyeball to eyeball with someone is less intimidating Yeah. To be able to have to share some of the stuff that's a little less comfortable. So I think when you wanna have a pretty honest conversation, of course, leave the vulnerability and curiosity, but maybe suggest going for a walk outside because it just feels a little easier than sitting down across the table from each other.
Craig:No. That's true. We do that a lot. And getting out in nature just gives you the happy vibes, and you're in nature, the smells, the the the air. Yeah.
Craig:That's a really great point. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. The the things that provide us with the ability to breathe, it feels nice to walk past them. Right?
Craig:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. It's, it's huge. I I'm I'm a huge advocate for any sort of creative thinking or problem solving, adding a walk in. And, I also think just to emphasize, anybody listening, that having one night a week or or one time during the week where you designate, we're putting our phones, like, over here on airplane mode type thing or whatever it is. Yeah.
Jacob:And just being I mean, because that's when you first got together before the all the hardship, all the, like, that's what it was. You have the butterflies in your stomach just having a conversation with this person. I mean, that's still there. You just gotta set set some time aside. So I I Exactly.
Jacob:You guys are such a wealth of information. I feel like you have given me so many great answers. I I I'm so grateful for your time. This was so amazing.
Meredith:This was super fun, Jacob. Oh, yeah. Loved it.
Craig:Yeah. Super grateful for your time as well and and for sharing your podcast with us. It's it's amazing.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so give me the give me the lowdown. Obviously, I'll put in the description as well so people can click on the links.
Jacob:Where can we find you? What are you working on next? What what's on the horizon? How do we keep up with you in the future?
Meredith:Well, we have a podcast too, and and our podcast is called the Road of Life podcast. We we we have, like, more of a bite sized episode, like, 10 to 20 minutes where we talk about sort of one concept at a time and give a story, give an example, kind of kinda bring people along with one strategy at a time for your for your marriage and for your life. It's a little bit of both. Yeah. And I'd say we're most active on Instagram.
Meredith:So we're sharing strategies and tools and tips and and things like that, on Instagram, and we're at meredithandcraig on Instagram. So that's where you can can can find us on there for sure.
Craig:Yep. Yeah. And and if anyone wants to reach out, if they have any questions or things that are coming up for them, they can DM us anytime, and we can we can help them out with whatever they need. Absolutely. Yeah.
Jacob:Cool. Well, that that's a beautiful thing. I will include all those links. So whoever's listening, you can find them in the links below. Meredith, Craig, thank you so much again for your time.
Jacob:Thank you for your wisdom, and and just thanks for following your hearts and doing what you guys do. It's it's, it's it's contagious. I feel inspired by you guys.
Meredith:Thank you.
Craig:Thank you so much. Appreciate you.
Jacob:Yeah. Listeners, love yourself. Drink some water if you haven't drank any water. Set a date day up with your husband or your wife, and go for a walk outside. Love yourselves, Meredith, Craig.
Jacob:I will be in contact soon. Thanks again. Have a good day. Hello, and welcome to the junkyard love podcast. At what age do we learn how to have better conversations?
Jacob:At what age we learn to have better conversations with ourselves? Knowledge is power.