Tortillas Are Sacred. Authenticity Isn't. — Aldo Camarena & Ashley McKay of Antylia

What if the most authentic thing a chef can do is adapt?

At Antylia (Dufferin & Bloor), chefs Aldo Camarena and Ashley McKay are building one of Toronto's most exciting restaurants on exactly that idea — Mexican and Ecuadorian traditions, cooked through Ontario corn, Indigenous ingredients, and the city's endless collision of cultures.

We get into why they show up to every wine tasting (rare for chefs), the thousands-year-old Indigenous science behind a perfect tortilla, a 17-step cauliflower, and the family ceviche recipe that shocks guests when they learn what's in it. Aldo also shares the story of arriving in Canada as a refugee, getting fired by a chef who told him "you're useless — but don't give up," and cooking his way to an answer.

If you enjoyed my conversation with Eva Chin on neo-Chinese cuisine, this one picks up the same thread: what happens to a food culture when it moves.

Tortillas Are Sacred. Authenticity Isn't. — Aldo Camarena & Ashley McKay of Antylia

Timestamps

00:00 Why wine matters as much as the food
05:34 From art school and a refugee arrival to professional kitchens
11:44 The vision behind Antylia — and a lifelong obsession with corn
14:55 Why making tortillas is a sacred craft
18:27 Building a restaurant around community, not transactions
23:30 What great hospitality looks like today
25:46 The 17-step cauliflower and the pursuit of craftsmanship
29:04 Storytelling, authenticity, and the future of Latin American cuisine
37:18 Canadian ingredients, Indigenous traditions, and redefining authenticity
42:43 Grandma's ceviche — and yes, there's ketchup in it
51:57 Why regulars keep coming back to Antylia
57:23 Visit Antylia

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Creators and Guests

Host

Alex Abbott Boyd

Toronto based wine importer and podcaster with a passion for killer wines from under-the-radar wine regions. Also Chamapgne.

What is Tasting Notes Toronto by Insider Wine?

Hosted by a Toronto-based sommelier Tasting Notes Toronto explores the people shaping the city’s food and wine culture—from Michelin-starred chefs and master sommeliers to restaurant operators and winemakers. Each episode goes behind the scenes of hospitality careers, restaurant culture, and the decisions that shape what we eat and drink in Toronto today.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 00:00

One of the most fun wine tasting I've ever done was when I came to taste with you at Antylia. And what was so cool was like I didn't come to taste with you. I thought I was there to taste with Adrian, the beverage director, which is what I do at any time I'm selling wine. But you both were there, the chefs. And not only were you there and you were tasting wines.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 00:22

What made it so cool is I watched your eyes light up as you would try a wine and think of a dish.

Aldo Camarena: 00:27

There was this

Alex Abbott Boyd: 00:27

one moment all three of you tasted a wine, looked at each other, and said, the cauliflower.

Aldo Camarena: 00:33

Yeah. Yeah. That's one of our favorite wines right now. We've based so many things around it. Because I think the moment we all had that said, we're like, okay.

Aldo Camarena: 00:38

We can all agree that this makes all three of us happy in different ways. I think we'll also cover really good ground. It happens occasionally when we taste wines that we're like, okay. Alright. Let's play ball.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 00:48

Stepping back from that one wine, I guess what I was getting at is why do you two as chefs view that the wine program is so important that you're both gonna show up to those tastes? Because it's a very rare occurrence for me.

Ashley McKay: 01:03

I think it makes sense for the space. The food tells so much of the story that being able to pair the wine with it and know how it all plays together really well is important. And a lot of the times we're at the counter talking to the guests and they're like, what should I get with this dish? Tell me what wine I should drink. And I'm like and then I remember I'm like, wait.

Ashley McKay: 01:20

I I do actually know all the wine. Yeah. At least by the glass. And I'm like, I can tell you this one goes with this dish. And they're like, wow.

Ashley McKay: 01:26

Yeah. It's how it's meant to be. We're all a big family doing this whole thing of making the guests happy.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 01:32

Why do you think more chefs don't operate that way?

Aldo Camarena: 01:37

I think that there's a certain self importance that comes with being a chef that happens sometimes that supersedes, like, realizing how many other things in that operation matters. Right? If we were to look at our business as we're just about the food, then we would be doing a disservice to ourselves, to our guests, and really to our team as well to not pay attention to the service and the little details that can really make someone's night better. And then if someone someone's having a really good time, their palate's gonna be primed for a good time as well. So for us, I think it's like understanding the importance of the fact that the first thing that someone drinks when they arrive is water.

Aldo Camarena: 02:14

The second thing they consume is usually their drink. And if you pick the right wine, food follows. We've had a dish that's a little bit more on the reserve side, a little bit more muted. You have a sip of this wine, and it just, like, it just explodes the flavors. The acidity just opens up your palate a little bit.

Aldo Camarena: 02:30

And I think that that is a massive part that if we as chefs think about that, then we are just adding a little bit more attention to the food as well. Right? I think the better and better you get, it's those little steps that really just take it to the next level for people.

Ashley McKay: 02:45

I think also our food is so story focused. Being able to learn the stories of the wine and also weave them together with the duck dish. Adrian has this pairing. I think we're almost out of it. But it's it smells like sandalwood, which grows in the area that the mole is from.

Ashley McKay: 03:00

So it's tying it all together.

Aldo Camarena: 03:02

It's It's a region where they make these boxes, and they're so fragrant. And you, like, open them. And every time you open these boxes, the smell of sandalwood just and they're known for this this craft. So having a mole from that region and having the kinda it's not gonna mean much to the guests, but to to us, it does. And I think people get more satisfaction from being like, yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 03:18

No. It's pretty sick. Like, I'll I believe you, man. Whatever. But but there is something about putting people in that time and place sometimes.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 03:26

Yeah. You both worked at some pretty incredible restaurants. I know you were at Quetzal. You've been at many great spots. Julieta is one that that I saw.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 03:36

Is thinking so much about the wine and the beverages at the same time as food? Is that something you picked up at those spots? Is that something that you wish was maybe happening more and was your vision too with Antylia?

Aldo Camarena: 03:47

It's funny because Adrian and I actually met at Aburihanna. And my favorite thing about that place, or one of the many things I like about the place, I was working with so many people that were focused on their craft. Every little thing had to matter. Right? And I think I spent a lot more time actually just listening to what all the sommeliers were talking about, talking about why the pairings worked and how they were planning to pair for this dish that hasn't even been put together yet.

Aldo Camarena: 04:11

They're like, oh, next day, they're gonna have yuzu. It's gonna have this. Hearing the psalms kinda either agree or argue about things was really interesting. And seeing how they did their little brown bag where you put a bottle inside a brown bag and everyone tastes a little bit and you have to guess the region and all that.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 04:25

I was

Aldo Camarena: 04:26

like, man, you know what? I'm I might have to get focused and look at wine and look at beverages with a little bit more seriousness. Until I saw this group of people that I'm like, these are kinda rock stars. They're doing crazy things with their palate. And as a chef, I need to be able to acknowledge that is cool as hell.

Aldo Camarena: 04:41

Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 04:42

Yeah. I think we just hung out at wine bars a lot, worked at wine bars, talked to wine people, and saw that the passion that they have about this product, which is incredible. You think, oh, grapes, you ferment it, and it it makes so many flavors, and it works it makes so much sense cooking to make the food work with that.

Aldo Camarena: 05:01

I don't know. So our focus in the food side is just the different kinds of corn and the different places that it grows and why it grows there and all these things. I'm like, wait. You could say the same thing about grapes. And it's fun to it's really good to have Adrian because we we are nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced as he is.

Aldo Camarena: 05:19

But it's really good to have someone around who can really just illuminate these things. And I think for the guests, it's also a lot of fun. They're like, oh, cool. And suddenly, you have people who know a lot about wine, and they start kinda having their conversations. And it's always fun to because the kitchen's so open, we get to listen to all these things.

Aldo Camarena: 05:32

Oh, cool. I didn't know that about wine. I learned it.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 05:34

I would love to know from each of you just when you started to realize you wanted to be a chef.

Ashley McKay: 05:40

I went to art school. I did an art degree first. And I because I loved creating stuff and I was like, okay. So do art. But that didn't scratch the itch the right way.

Ashley McKay: 05:50

I was this is yeah. This is fun, but maybe not for me. Took some time off. Just started the cooking for myself because I had time. And then I was like, wait, I really like this.

Ashley McKay: 05:57

This makes a lot of sense. And so I did the thing. I went to culinary school and everyone was, no. You're gonna end up with no future or whatever. And I'm like, I think this is right.

Ashley McKay: 06:07

I think this is gonna be good. Did that and then started working in kitchens. And it it was really hard, but running around and that feeling of service was really fun and just made sense for my brain. And then it all kinda clicked. Because I'm very list focused organization, that kind of thing.

Ashley McKay: 06:24

And I was like, wait. So everything just followed the right paths. You make the right prep and everything. It's like playing jigsaw or Tetris for the whole thing. And it just made sense in my brain.

Ashley McKay: 06:37

Like this yes. I will keep doing this. And now here I am. I didn't expect to be here, but I kinda knew once it all kinda

Aldo Camarena: 06:47

Yeah. For me, it was like it started off with just the first cooking I did was I was, like must have been, like, seven years old when I when my mom started saying, hey. You're in charge of the mole. I'm like, it was store bought at the time. So we would take a mole paste and open it up with, like, little by little, adding, like, chicken broth, and then you had a few different things you can season it with.

Aldo Camarena: 07:08

So we had, obviously, salt, a little bit of sugar, and you had chocolate. And I used to have so much fun just throwing more and more chocolate in there and being like, we're gonna eat sweet mole today. But that's my first kitchen memory is, like, my mom would just put a chair up to up against the stove, and I would stand there, I'd stir the mole little by little, like, opening it up. But I ended up in kitchens because that's just where life put me. I think my family moved out to Saskatchewan so we could kinda stay in Canada.

Aldo Camarena: 07:37

That was how we survived being rejected as refugees and then applying under, like, humanitarian or whatever. And my my dad was supposed to, like, work in a grocery store in a produce department. But since we're all there, we're like, what are we gonna do with our time? This we're used to the city or whatever. And so after after school, I would work at the grocery store in the deli department.

Aldo Camarena: 07:56

And I had a I had a lot of fun with that. And I was just like, cool. Like, at least this will be good for me. I'll learn how to cook. And then when I eventually go to do something else, I'll at least know how to cook.

Aldo Camarena: 08:04

I used to spend my weekends being like, okay. Cool. Wanna learn how to make pizzas. So like, learn to learn how to I'll do all these things or whatever. But I didn't really think that was gonna, like, lead towards a career in a kitchen.

Aldo Camarena: 08:13

I was just like, this is, like, cool, but I'm probably gonna do something else. Right? Eventually, I'll find a different path. And then, yeah, I think, like, just because of things like migration and the situation in my life, post secondary wasn't really, like, an option for me. I really wanted to go to, like, art school.

Aldo Camarena: 08:30

I wanted to go into illustration or something of that sort because I like the idea of telling stories through art. It's how it connects to where we're at. I moved to Toronto after a while. I spent some time working at bakeries or whatever, little simple jobs like that. But eventually, I end up in, like, a Tortillas, like, a a French restaurant that's been around for ages in a typical, and I got my ass kicked because I went from being, like, a deli guy to going to, like, a a real kind of restaurant.

Aldo Camarena: 08:58

Right? And and this guy was really mean. Like, he was one of the most horrible chefs I ever had to work for because he was super old school and super French. And the way that, like, he made me feel like I couldn't do it made me wanna prove him wrong. But then also, when he fired me, he also said, we don't need the industry, but also you can't work here.

Aldo Camarena: 09:18

So It was weird message. It was a mixed message. You're useless, but don't give up. And I was just like, that guy's a fucking dick. I'm gonna kick his ass by getting real good at this real fast.

Aldo Camarena: 09:29

I still had a plan to do something else, but no. Then I don't know. When I started thinking about cooking as a as something you can treat as a craft and as, like, something you can every day, like, get better at, that made me think, this guy, just because he's some kinda hot shit from France, like, he can do this. I wanna be the hot shit from Mexico then. Because he think he's what are gonna eat?

Aldo Camarena: 09:52

Cook if you cook your own food? Are gonna do tacos? I'm like, what's wrong with tacos, man? Tacos are amazing. I think it was yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 09:57

There was a lot of, like, spite. A lot of a lot of fierce resentment towards the fact that, like, maybe our food wasn't being ting. Ting ting. Like, was not being looked at, like, seriously. It was an opportunity to work with my hands and to be creative and tell stories.

Aldo Camarena: 10:13

To be an illustrator in, like, the most convoluted way possible, I was gonna get my way. And I think now I get my way. Now I get to be an illustrator through food. And even though I don't have an an art studio to go and paint at, I have a kitchen where I can cook, where I can build dishes, where I can tell stories. And know what?

Aldo Camarena: 10:31

Sometimes I force people to listen to me. You know, I'm like, oh, yeah. Sorry. I'm gonna keep on talking at your table for a little bit. You're gonna learn about the the whole history of corn for a second here.

Aldo Camarena: 10:39

But, yeah, I think it was like I ended up at the chef by accident, but it was also gonna happen. Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 10:47

I like how you're like, oh, I did it out of spite. Because I think I had a very similar experience to when I started cooking. It was just a lot of people being like, wow, you're like kinda bad at this and then being mean. I was kinda like and it just makes you get better and better. I think that's why we work so well together is because we have that same kind of mindset.

Ashley McKay: 11:07

We're just coming at it from different spaces.

Aldo Camarena: 11:10

Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 11:10

And we both just kinda like

Aldo Camarena: 11:11

There there's nothing more heartbreaking though when you actually eventually surpass the people who proceeded to you. Because it's like, you think it's gonna be a battle for the ages, and then they just I Manny, you were supposed to be my my my nemesis. So now I I can't comp I can't even I can't look back. I can't look back. I'm sorry.

Aldo Camarena: 11:31

Gotta find a new one. Oh, yeah. In in in a sort of way, Ashley and I are constantly.

Ashley McKay: 11:35

Yeah. I think that's it works really works really well together because, like, we're nemesis, but together. Yeah. And we're nemesis for the same goal.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 11:44

Could you maybe just share how Antylia came to be and what was your vision and what you're trying to do

Ashley McKay: 11:52

We've been working together for so long now and just how all of that has ended up here is crazy to think about now, but it's been a fun journey. Although it's Mexican, my family's Ecuadorian, and seeing how the two cultures were so different and so similar and both had corn and both had a lot of the same values and foods, like different variations on some of the same things. We're kinda like, okay. So how do we turn this into something? And it just naturally progressed.

Ashley McKay: 12:21

You became obsessed with corn.

Aldo Camarena: 12:24

I was always kinda like really interested, but I so the crazy thing is like

Alex Abbott Boyd: 12:28

If for someone who's not obsessed with corn, why is it worthy of that obsession? What what got you hooked on it? So many things.

Aldo Camarena: 12:35

If you think about maize as a staple crop, it is something that has lifted up empires. Right? It's something that has also continues just feed so many people. Forget feed, clothe, probably things in this room that are made from corn. It is something that is very, like, like, deep and interesting, but also some people consider as very humble.

Aldo Camarena: 12:55

But if you think about what's really interesting about it is that this is like an an entirely an artificial crop. Right? Like, they had the tocintes and the the wild grasses that they started, like, hand selecting little by little. Had they gone a couple of generations without doing that, they wouldn't survive because corn, people don't know this sometimes, is something that for the vast majority of its history needed human intervention. And it wasn't just to, like, to produce it and you can just let it go wild.

Aldo Camarena: 13:20

There's no such thing as wild corn. So every single, like, different varietal like, Mexico has, like, 52 or something like that. And I know that Canada's got a lot more than we thought. Like, something like I I think it's at least 14 different varietals that are up here. And think we're we're still, like, getting getting to discover more ourselves.

Aldo Camarena: 13:37

But the the thing about that is that every single difference tells you that there was a group of people that specifically nurtured and took care and saved that seed and passed it down and every little change that happened over generations. Right? We were talking to one of our farmers, Brian. He's on the Six Nations of the the Grand River. He is he's he took a him and his brother, Dylan, took a a varietal that was a white and blue corn, and little by little, they turned into this purely blue corn.

Aldo Camarena: 14:05

Right? And it's like that seed saving and selecting and careful. Again, it's something that takes a lot of love, a lot of dedication, and shits on Upwork. And then it's also got so many different techniques to be used. It also is something that, like, for a long time when I lived in Canada, like, after I I arrived to Canada, I could not find a good tortilla to save my life.

Aldo Camarena: 14:26

So that being my staple food, that was the thing I ate my meals with. I stopped eating tortillas or, like, really most corn products for about four years because I was just like I couldn't stomach it. And I think it's like something that breaks my heart is when I go to a place where the dishes that go in the taco are delicious, but the tortilla is something, like, gross and kinda plasticky and weird. And, like, even if you were to, like, try to heat it up properly, it still doesn't have the right texture. You know?

Alex Abbott Boyd: 14:52

I've heard you describe the process of creating torn tortillas from scratch as sacred or holy.

Aldo Camarena: 15:00

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's it is indigenous science that is, like, thousands of years old, and the amount of little details that lead to the best tortilla. But we were like, hey.

Aldo Camarena: 15:12

What's your favorite thing to cook? I'm like, one good tortilla. But it has to be start to finish. Like, from how you with the the corn that you pick and why you pick that corn to how you nixtamalize it. So that that's the process of basically blanching the corn in the dried corn in an alkaline solution.

Aldo Camarena: 15:29

So you select calcium hydroxide, water, the corn, and then that's all that should really go in there. But these three elements, the temperature at which you heat the water, how you wash the corn, how you select it, how long do you wait after washing the corn to throw it into the pot, all of these things will result in a different product. Right? And then after that, it's how long do you let it rest in that water overnight. Then after that, it's when you're grinding it.

Aldo Camarena: 15:54

How finely do you wanna grind? Or actually, how much of the water do you wash off of the corn? But there's a skin that people are like, oh, no. You have to wash it off. That's why you nixtamalize.

Aldo Camarena: 16:02

Like, you don't nixtamalize to to get rid of the skin. You nixtamalize to soften it, make it bioavailable, and basically, it it also adds a texture. And the the texture actually a lot of it lives in the skin. So how much of that skin you live in leave in there will also change the texture of the masa in the end. And finally, it's how do you grind it?

Aldo Camarena: 16:19

Are you grinding it for tortillas? Are you grinding it for sopes, tostadas? They all have their different panel grind. And that's yeah. Again, that's just making the masa.

Aldo Camarena: 16:27

And, like, that is not even needing the masa and hydrating it after and knowing what the perfect texture is. And it's also analog and, like, there is no this is the recipe. If you look at making masa as a recipe, you're gonna fail. And then you okay. Let's say you get to the point where you have a little ball of masa and you're kneading it again to hydrate it to get it ready.

Aldo Camarena: 16:46

How you do that matters. If And you press it, how much pressure? Is it even? Is it, like, a little lopsided? How do you drop it on the on on the surface?

Aldo Camarena: 16:56

How long do you leave each side? How many times do you flip it? Do you press down on it? Do or do you not? And then after that is

Alex Abbott Boyd: 17:03

I'm guessing you have strong opinions on every

Aldo Camarena: 17:04

one of those. Every one of them. And it depends on the corn. And then after that is, do you put it put a towel on top of it to let it kinda steam and soften? Or do you eat it right away?

Aldo Camarena: 17:13

That that's my favorite thing to cook. And it's a process that is every single one of these things matters. And it's so fun to to do that because my brain just feels like a million miles a minute sometimes. And this is like one one of the most peaceful things for me because I'm like, okay. Cool.

Aldo Camarena: 17:26

I know exactly what's happening.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 17:27

Yeah. Yeah. So the question originally was, what was your inspiration in opening Antylia? A a good excuse to make a lot of tortilla?

Aldo Camarena: 17:37

You know what? A big part of it, yes. A big part of it, yes. I I think we're both creatives. Having a place to create is so nice.

Aldo Camarena: 17:45

It's like having a workshop or a studio. And then I think there's something about, like, letting the guests, I guess, fund our fund our our our studio rent. Also, it's like community, I think, a huge part

Ashley McKay: 17:54

of it. Yeah. I think that's a huge part of it, especially having such an open space and being able to really see all the guests. Like, sometimes you get so locked into I must make this one dish perfect and make it beautiful and make it thoughtful. And then you forget that someone's eating it and enjoying it and getting to go out and talk to the guests and they're like, wow, this was my favorite part.

Ashley McKay: 18:12

I like this. The story is incredible. Or what kind of corn is this? It smells so wonderful. And it's like, oh, yeah.

Ashley McKay: 18:18

Like, people are also experiencing this thing that we're creating. You kinda have to stop going like this and like Yeah. Look up at the room and have make everyone have a good time.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 18:27

This this more holistic perspective seems to run right through everything. Right? Because it's not just the food, it's the beverages. It's not just the food and the beverages, it's the community. It's the storytelling that goes with it.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 18:40

It's even the architecture of the space. Right? You built intentionally that big chef's counter. It seems like you're very intentionally being broad.

Aldo Camarena: 18:52

Yeah. I like to say that there's something we end up missing sometimes when we go to a new country. Like, as a migrant, I used to think, man, the first thing I do when I go back to Mexico is get my family together. We're gonna have a big meal, and it's gonna be a communal seating experience. And every time I've gone to do that, every time I get go back and go to Notes house or something like that, and we're eating the dishes that taste like the way they used to, maybe one of our family members is not with us anymore or something.

Aldo Camarena: 19:18

But every time I get to do that, I'm like, this is something that we've taken away at restaurants By making all these individualized tables and making the experience so separate for people, I think sometimes we and there's nothing wrong with that. I wanna have a a private dinner that's catered and all these things. But I don't know. I I hear so much about people in Toronto, especially people who are not from Toronto, who end up moving here who are like, I'm so lonely here. I can't find a a situation that makes me feel like I'm in community or that I'm around people.

Aldo Camarena: 19:45

And I think that there's there there's there are high hopes still that and it has happened a few times, but it's not as common as you would think. But that that place will be the perfect excuse to talk to your neighbor. And that's really what we wanted for the space is to I think I always say that a lot of the design of the space is such that you're not just looking at a bartender or you're not just looking at a chef and then a wall. When you look past, you see another diner, and they're in there with you. They're reacting to things.

Aldo Camarena: 20:14

They're experiencing this with you. Maybe at they might be at a different pace. Maybe they're ahead of you or they're just having that dish that blew your mind. You're like, oh, cool. They're loving that dish.

Aldo Camarena: 20:21

And I've heard I've I've heard people be like, oh, yes. You love this stuff. And I'm like, yeah. That's that's what it's about sometimes. It's experiencing things together.

Aldo Camarena: 20:30

Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 20:31

It's really fun when you can see people we've had this happen a couple times. Friends are across the bar from one another and they're like talking over us and around us. And I saw them send shots to each other from one side of bar to the other. It was really cute. It's

Aldo Camarena: 20:44

Some some sometimes I I'm not gonna lie. I've definitely booby trapped that a little bit. When I see people know each other, I might send them some shots and be like, hey, friend send you these shots. And occasionally, And it's just nice to remind people that we are social beings. We are we can enjoy community.

Aldo Camarena: 21:00

We can enjoy these these moments together. And it's another reason that we've we've been doing something called we've been calling it our Kofermans. It's looking at not just collaborations with chefs, but DJs. We're doing something with live radio right now where, like, on Sundays sometimes, we don't open for regular service. Rather, we just take everything off the stations.

Aldo Camarena: 21:16

We put like, DJ decks in the center of that counter, and random DJ will come in and do an hour of radio. And and we take the chairs down and everything, and there's bit more standing room, and people are, like, flowing floating around. I think that's been a really, like, rewarding thing for us to do. And so we have the space. We know that people are looking for a place to do this kind of thing.

Aldo Camarena: 21:34

So being able to host cultural events and social events like that is is something that we're very excited to be able to do. And especially when we can share great wine with people, it's yeah. It's a way to do it, I think.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 21:46

Yeah. I think it it really just adds up to great hospitality. I brought my family, and that's how we felt that we were just like sitting down at a friend's table, just chatting with someone the whole time and getting great food and drink along the way.

Aldo Camarena: 21:59

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that if I were to have done this whole thing from the beginning, knowing what I know now, nothing about committing so hard to this communal and community driven thing would change. I'm always happy that my team succeeds, and people really leave that place happy, and they feel like they've been taken care of on a personal level, not on a just, oh, they filled my water. I would hate for us to be the people who are like, okay.

Aldo Camarena: 22:24

Let me just straighten out your fork. I'd rather be the people who are hey. So let's find out about how are you feeling today. It's like you truly find out. Like, one of our owners is his name is Armin.

Aldo Camarena: 22:33

And one of my favorite things to tell him is like, Armin, go be Charmin. And, yeah, I just send him to random tables when I'm like, you know what? I think right now is a really good time to touch that table and kinda, like, really get in there. Let's just let's build relationships with the guests. Let's not just do this, like, dance of, like, where this isn't a transaction, and I'm gonna give you product.

Aldo Camarena: 22:50

You're gonna give me money, and then see you later. We we really do wanna have that connection. And and it's especially nice when we have these events coming up, and I'm like, hey. You know what? You guys seem like you're you I don't know what about it it is, but I think you probably collect vinyl.

Aldo Camarena: 23:02

How do you know? Was like, listen. There's gonna be a bunch of vinyl DJs that come gonna come on Sunday. Please do not expect it to be like this. It's gonna be very informal, But I think you would enjoy it.

Aldo Camarena: 23:11

I think you should come back and meet some of these people. Because I think you you would have a lot of, like, like minded people in the room with you if you came by. And in fact, the people one of the people who's, like, helping us organize this the most is someone we met as a regular at Zoom. Yeah.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 23:24

On one hand, that just sounds like it's a much more fun way to run a business, although more work. On the other hand, just like in the state of the industry, I almost wonder is this what you think it takes to be surviving in 2026 just given the challenges and the costs and people dining out less? Just adding that next level of personalized service.

Ashley McKay: 23:47

I think so. So many people are, like Aldo was saying, lacking that kind of, like, sense of community. And dining has become more experiential. It's you're meant to be doing something, not just like shoveling food. Sometimes we go out and just shovel food.

Ashley McKay: 24:03

But it's nice to sit down and just forget that everything else is going on. The world is crazy right now. And being able to just take that step back and be greeted with nice hospitality, good food, good wine, good music.

Aldo Camarena: 24:17

We were talking about this on Saturday night. We had finished service and, like, were talking about why we were having such a good time with the guests. And it's it comes down to the expression entertaining guests. You're holding them in that between time, but you're also entertaining them. You're also making them have an experience.

Aldo Camarena: 24:33

And there's nothing more personal than, like, hosting someone like that. It's when you're at a restaurant, the drinks that you're having are affecting your brain chemistry. The food you're having affects your brain chemistry. And so does the music you're listening to. And so does the lighting.

Aldo Camarena: 24:47

And so does the conversation. So it's one of the most direct ways to, like, really get in someone's brain. It's like, if you do it successfully, it it can really make someone's experience so much nicer than if you just let it happen however, and you're like, you don't check-in and you don't really calibrate to each person's thing. And I think that has been our biggest success. We love the expression that we keep on getting.

Aldo Camarena: 25:10

It's like, I normally don't come back to nice restaurants like that. I just like to try new things all the time. This is my fourth time here. I don't know how this happened. And we have friends from that we look forward to seeing from, like, Montreal or from other cities that are like, I should be going to other places.

Aldo Camarena: 25:25

Yeah. But it's worked really well for us. I think there's been, like, a lot of really rewarding experiences, not just as a person, but as a as a business from having these connections with our guests. Think there's people who like, holy crap. Like, you like, I have no new dishes for you right now.

Aldo Camarena: 25:39

You've been here three times in a month. I cannot I'm not changing the menu that often. I'm sorry.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 25:44

Yeah. It's a great problem to have. I mean, on the topic of the dishes and the menu, we went deep on corn, but I'd love to hear just about some like, how you describe the food program more generally and what kinda each of you focus on within the restaurant, or do you is everyone do everything?

Ashley McKay: 26:02

Have everyone doing everything.

Aldo Camarena: 26:04

Yeah. Yeah. I think Ashley, I would describe her her role in, like, the the food side of things is that she's the only reason it happened. From the lists to the keeping us on track with the lists, all the ordering and all the really, all the real parts about being a chef, that's the one that's the thing that Ashley's kinda like handling. She's she's even doing all the things that I never even considered a chef had to do.

Aldo Camarena: 26:27

It allows me to be very childish. And and that childishness, I think, where a lot of the the design of the food kinda comes from. It's like, cool. What if we made something really hard for Ashley to do? That's

Ashley McKay: 26:38

And then I go, okay. So this is how we make this a real dish. Let's take a step back. We're gonna do it like this and just make it possible.

Aldo Camarena: 26:47

Or sometime or sometimes we just kick our own asses.

Ashley McKay: 26:49

Yeah. Because there's a couple dishes where in the beginning, was like, oh, this is crazy. And now it's become so streamlined in its craziness that it still works really well, and it gets up to the table, and the guests are like, wow. This is wonderful. And I'm like

Aldo Camarena: 27:03

17 steps for one cauliflower day. This is crazy.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 27:06

Yeah. I was just thinking you give me a concrete example of that. Can you maybe walk us through the cauliflower?

Aldo Camarena: 27:12

The cauliflower, from its design, we wanted it to be something that we weren't just gonna have a bunch of trim and then just toss it out. So when we clean the cauliflower, we keep them whole, we take off a bunch of the stem and a bunch of the leaves, and that those would pop up, and eventually we we dehydrate, hold on for another day. The cauliflower goes in a salt brine that goes downstairs in the prep room for about two to three days. Okay. So we go back to what do we do with the cauliflower bits.

Aldo Camarena: 27:38

So after a couple of days of dehydration, we slow roast these and really get coffee like notes out of them. Just super low roast, which is something we've we kinda draw a lot from Mayan cuisine because that's kind of how you would do a pate gallo negro marinade for many things. We wanna do this with cauliflower by making marinade from the cauliflower itself and kinda give people the experience of the crispy bits of a cauliflower when you pan fry it real good. We take the roasted stuff, and we blitz it to just the right consistency. And then that goes gets mixed with a hot oil that's been infused with different kinds of chilies and garlic, and that all becomes this marinade.

Aldo Camarena: 28:11

First, burn the cauliflower. Then we marinate the cauliflower, and then we roast the cauliflower. And then after that, we had to talk about the molish. This is like a whole other thing. That one's like, we basically make a carrot based mole by blanching carrots with wild bergamot.

Aldo Camarena: 28:26

We have so many different kinds of chilies that go in there, different little elements, roasted seeds and whatnot. And then we make that mole. And that's the bottom of the cauliflower. Put the cauliflower on top. Drizzle some more of that aricada de negro on the cauliflower, and we top it off with some flower seeds.

Aldo Camarena: 28:41

And that's just yeah. It's something like 17 steps for just a cauliflower. I know. And I think there's something to say about, like, the the maximalism of Latin American culture and really apply it to the food.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 28:52

I'm married to a vegetarian, so I've eaten a lot of cauliflower when we go out, and that's, hands down, the best one. The So effort is very well received. What what role do you think storytelling plays for you both? And also, how would you then take that long story when you're just like at the bar and serving it and distill it into something?

Aldo Camarena: 29:15

I I don't.

Ashley McKay: 29:16

I think

Aldo Camarena: 29:17

that's Everyone else does.

Ashley McKay: 29:18

I think that's the fun thing about being the chefs, and we get to go out and we talk to the guests. Like, all the servers, they're like, okay. Here's your cauliflower, like, peri mole, and maple sunflower seeds, whatever. And then we come up and we're like, so here's the whole story about how we make this dish. It's not that long.

Ashley McKay: 29:31

Thankfully, Pete's not gonna your food's not gonna get cold, hopefully. But don't get all distorted about corn because it will your food will go cold.

Aldo Camarena: 29:38

There there is a point when people start asking questions and reengaging, I'm like, then okay. I'll I'll continue, but you you need to start eating. Have a bite.

Ashley McKay: 29:44

But, yes. It's fun. We get to tell a little bit more story. People are a little more willing to listen than if a server was just like telling them they Yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 29:51

Our our servers do a pretty good job. They do

Ashley McKay: 29:52

they do a very good job.

Aldo Camarena: 29:53

What I will say is like, in the way that a lot of the dishes that we've made are designed, it starts off with story, actually. We have the produce and we have the narrative. Right? We maybe think, what is the origin of this thing? Or where is this corn from?

Aldo Camarena: 30:06

Who who is producing this? We did this really interesting take on a tartare for a special, like, one day event. Cinco de Mayo did a taco tasting menu, and it was, like, crazy. It was nuts. But that well, there was one dish I really loved.

Aldo Camarena: 30:19

We were using the Six Nations of the Grand River white. It's a Tastesca Coracorn. So white, fluffy, pillowy, little starchy. And and I really wanna take that. And I I think one of the most devastating things that happened to us restaurant scene wise is when the powwow cafe closed.

Aldo Camarena: 30:34

I used love going for, like, an Indian taco. Right? And I always thought that was, like, really interesting how if you look at indigenous cuisines or, like, sort of things like Indian taco and powwow foods and that kind of thing. And you look at, like, New Mexican cuisine, for example, you look at, like, even, like, Tex Mex, there's, like, a correlation there that is don't you don't ever call New Mexican cuisine Tex Mex, by the way. That that will actually get you injured.

Aldo Camarena: 30:53

But there there's a correlation to that. I think it's really interesting. I think that for that one, it was like, okay. So this is someone's authentic, and this is someone's authentic. And Tex Mex, whether or not we'd like to consider it, that is authentic to someone.

Aldo Camarena: 31:11

There are there are Latinos that are that's the Mexican food they know. And I think that speaking on my end and having grown up in East LA and growing up with, like, the whole East East LA or Cholo culture or lowrider culture and all these different different things, that is someone's authentic. So we made a dish that kinda united all those elements. And there was a a bison tartar that we called it aldo al paso mix, topped with Beemster for the yellow cheese. We had a fermented tomato pico de gallo.

Aldo Camarena: 31:36

And I think we put, like,

Ashley McKay: 31:37

It's like a lime Lime. Dressing. Yeah. There's shredded lettuce.

Aldo Camarena: 31:40

The shredded lettuce. Yeah. And

Ashley McKay: 31:42

it was like a puffy taco. So we essentially made the tortilla, deep fried it, and puffed up. It was so good.

Aldo Camarena: 31:47

But with this one, it was, like, very much we started off with the the story of the corn being an indigenous dish wanting to be okay. We should. If we're looking at Antylia as a restaurant that is supposed to be Pan American, we should be telling the stories of the people out here. And that dish would not exist without the story. And that that's the case for a lot of our dishes.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 32:03

Yeah. I love that. It really reminds me I recently had chef Eva Chin on.

Aldo Camarena: 32:08

Oh,

Alex Abbott Boyd: 32:08

Navient Dining Room. And when she kind of defined her neo Chinese cuisine, she defined it as weaving together the kind of food that your parents cooked, the kind of food in the diaspora community you grew up in, Chinese American, and what's going on in China. And then weaving those three things together is how she described her neo Chinese cuisine, which sounds exactly like that dish that you were

Aldo Camarena: 32:29

Yeah. I think that's a very Toronto approach. We're so multicultural here, and it's not multicultural in the sense that people are already here. It's like people are still showing up from these places. There's an idea of cultural fossilization that when people leave their country, they hang on to that version of that country in almost like a screenshot.

Aldo Camarena: 32:44

Yeah. And that's what they will project for a long time, which is what is the birth of so many subcultures is people doing that generationally. Right? But there's something very cool about Toronto because it's like, we have the Latinos that have been here for a long time. Like, Ashley's grandfather arrived in the seventies.

Aldo Camarena: 33:00

Huge Ecuadorian community in Toronto, actually. People don't really know that about Toronto is that the main Latinos that were here for a long time were Ecuadorian. Mexicans just kinda just started showing up recently, actually. We I've been here since 2006, but my all my Mexican friends are, like, arrived in the last three years, four years, and they're bringing a different kind of Mexico with them. And it's really cool about Toronto that we have that for so many different cultures.

Aldo Camarena: 33:23

Right? We have we have people from kind of, like, the the past of these cultures, the present of these cultures, and we'll have the future of these cultures as well. And I think that's also what we say about Antylia is that we are not just focused on representing what was Latin American food. We don't wanna represent what is Latin American food. We don't also even wanna guess what it's gonna be.

Aldo Camarena: 33:43

But what we like to try to do is present what it could be. We don't wanna define it. We wanna explore it. I think the goal of what we do is exploration.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 33:52

Yeah. This might be off topic, but it's just the way that some cultures fossilize, like Italian Americans in New Jersey. Right? That'll say mozzarella, and they have strong opinions on how to make a red sauce, but they don't speak Italian, and no one's been to Italy in three generations. Versus this much more dynamic and evolving thing in Toronto.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 34:14

Do you think it is something special and unique to hear?

Aldo Camarena: 34:18

I yeah. You know, I honestly do think so. I think that there is because the migration to Toronto is happening in waves, but it also constantly has people from all over the world. I think I would say that I, like, I I meet people here consistently that have either, again, from all sorts of backgrounds, who have either been here for ages or arrived yesterday. And it's really cool about Toronto that we constantly have this free flowing thing.

Aldo Camarena: 34:43

Do you use the word

Alex Abbott Boyd: 34:45

migrant intentionally? So for instance, I was born in The US. I then grew up in Australia. Then I grew up in The US, and I moved here a few years ago. I think of myself as an immigrant.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 34:54

I don't know. Is that a meaningful difference? Or

Aldo Camarena: 34:58

I'm I'm sorry.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 35:00

You just used it a couple times. I just wanted to Yes.

Aldo Camarena: 35:03

I think an immigrant means that you've arrived somewhere. A migrant means that you've left somewhere. Right. That's I think that's the yeah. I don't know.

Aldo Camarena: 35:10

I don't know. I also don't think that, like, immigration isn't necessarily always, like, a permanent thing. Right? People go back to their countries all the time, so it's like I think of it as a very, like, free flowing thing. Yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 35:21

But it's interesting. So you're a third culture kid.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 35:23

I am. I don't look like it or sound like it. No.

Aldo Camarena: 35:26

But that's a huge thing. Right? I think it's I think there's something to that that, like, a a a lot of what we present at Insider is very aimed at, like, like, people who understand the concept of being a third because yeah. Same with myself. Moved around a lot.

Aldo Camarena: 35:40

Right? Like, Mexico, US, and Canada were my the the three countries that raised me. So it's yeah. A lot of what we do is based around, like, exploring. I think that once you're a third culture kid, you kinda have the experience of starting over twice and, like, doing it the second time around with a little bit more experience.

Aldo Camarena: 35:58

Now you know that you have to look out for social cues. You have to look out for things like people's before you even arrive, you already know people are gonna have a pre conception of what you are. And it's yeah.

Ashley McKay: 36:12

Like, I grew up in Toronto. So I've only ever known this wonderful multicultural city. And it's been really interesting to, like, work with so many people and know so many people who are who've moved around so much. And it just continues to create this beautiful tapestry that is the city. Like, it's so multicultural.

Ashley McKay: 36:28

And I didn't realize that was weird until I started going and traveling other places. And people would be like, or people would come and they would say, there's it's so multicultural here, and you just don't even realize. When you're brought up in all of that, like, I went to school with, like, lots of other Latinos, but there was no Mexicans. It was a lot of Peruvians, Ecuadorians, Colombians, a lot of Colombians. It was a it was interesting.

Aldo Camarena: 36:50

Think about all the Ecuadorian restaurants that are serving Mexican food. Yeah. It's it's it's crazy. La Chupiria is, like, one of them, but, like, there's so many places that are like, oh, cool. Mexican spot.

Aldo Camarena: 36:59

Cool. Who owns it? It's like, oh, this person. Are they from Mexico? No.

Aldo Camarena: 37:02

They're from Ecuador. It's like, what? This happens like a million times in the city.

Ashley McKay: 37:06

It's on Saint Clair though.

Aldo Camarena: 37:06

And what happens on Chile too? Yeah. You're you're you're you're quirking. I feel like You're just

Ashley McKay: 37:10

like, oh, this, like, old Mexican restaurant in the city is just Ecuador. Don't think what's going on.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 37:18

It doesn't seem like you're trying to be authentic to any one thing. Seems like that might even be impossible. I'd be curious how you think about that and bringing Latin American food to Toronto, but championing indigenous Canadian ingredient.

Aldo Camarena: 37:34

I think the best thing about Latin Americans is that we are so adaptable. I think the most authentic thing you can do is adapt. And if we were to look at the pursuit of authenticity, I think that there is something about that that is noble, but it also seems a little misguided. I think it's like terror has an effect on food. Right?

Aldo Camarena: 38:01

What you can bring into the country has an effect on food. Things like when I arrived to Canada, it was different from now. Right? You weren't finding dried chilies and no frills and stuff like that. In fact, I lived in Northern Saskatchewan for a bit, and there was there was weeks where my my my clothes would smell like chilies because I would come to Toronto, and I'd smuggle them back essentially in my luggage so my mom could make, like, pozoles and stuff like that.

Aldo Camarena: 38:23

So I think it's when you go to a new place, you know, you have your your cultural foods. You have access to some things, maybe. Some some people that's why so many so much feta ends up on tacos because there's no cotija in some places. Right? The moment you go to a new place, the tomatoes are gonna taste different.

Aldo Camarena: 38:40

The whatever. Anything that you use is gonna be just a little bit different. And I think that if we really want it to be the most authentic place, I think that we would maybe not be representing the ingredients that we have there the best. And I

Ashley McKay: 38:56

think we have such incredible ingredients here. We're right. Ontario's has everything pretty much. And it grows so well here, and to not use it is crazy. Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 39:07

We're making Latin American food and as you're saying, like adapting. But you can still use those flavors, those concepts, those ideas with the ingredients that are here. You there there are chilies here. They grow.

Aldo Camarena: 39:18

Yeah. I think it's it's understanding that cultural fossilization is a thing, and that's why people attribute certain dishes to certain cultures. But there there there's also the fact that we can represent ourselves with the freshness and the the the excitement of any other group or any of the people. Even the people who are back in Mexico right now, they're doing crazy stuff over there. Mexico City's food scene and Guadalajara's food scene, I wanna really check out what's happening in Tijuana right now.

Aldo Camarena: 39:46

But I guess if we were to just go for authenticity, we would really miss an opportunity to be representing Latin Americans, doing Latin American things in one of the most multicultural cities in the world where we have access to so many things. It's not just the fact that we have this beautiful green belt, not just the fact that we have these incredible products being made by people with shared culture to us. So indigenous Canadians have they also nixtamalize. Right? They also have this the corn.

Aldo Camarena: 40:11

Also grow in it grow their corn with beans and squash and all these other things. But I think like, that is just one of the many things that makes Toronto awesome is that we have access to so many different things, and the diners are already primed to have an experience that's gonna be a little bit out there because they're like, there's a place on Spadina I tried the other day. It's called the Mexi Pak, and it's Mexican Pakistani. And I'm like, perfect. Let's let's have more of those so we can really go crazy.

Aldo Camarena: 40:37

That's this is like a a massive experiment in in in what happens anthropologically, you know, to a city with multiculturalism. There's people like us that have cooked in so many different cuisines and seen how they adapt to things. And now when we're presenting our food, we're doing it with this very, very twisted set of skills. It's why do we know sashimi cuts? Why are we able to make stuffed pasta?

Aldo Camarena: 41:01

Why do you have all these skills? And, like, how are we gonna apply that to the medium of Latin American cuisine or Pan American cuisine? It's we had literally a dish that was, like, inspired by all the summers we lost making enolattis in basements because Toronto loves an enolati. Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 41:15

That dish was really fun. Especially, I had one of my old chefs who was Italian, and I'm like, this is our dish making fun of Italian food. But in a very respectful and this our ode to it. Like, we worked so long in these restaurants and the food is delicious. And but now we get to do it our way with our seasonings and our flavors and obviously corn instead of pasta.

Ashley McKay: 41:33

And people really liked it too. They were like, okay. I get this. This makes sense in a really strange way. But once you told the story, they were

Aldo Camarena: 41:39

like The the coolest thing happened the other day were speaking on this whole ingredients that are indigenous but Latin American food. I just had one of the best pozoles of my life, and it was made by an indigenous woman in the reserve using indigenous corn. And that was like that I was not expecting that. And that that came out of nowhere. We're picking up some corn or picking up some strawberries, and and Brian's daughter had made dinner.

Aldo Camarena: 42:04

And they will go in, and I'm like, oh, okay. Well, we gotta head out. And we're talking to Brian for a bit, and they come back out with these mugs of some of the best bozoy I've ever had. So I was just like, wait. I mean, I I always wondered if that that corn would be good for that.

Aldo Camarena: 42:17

And now we know because it was I think she has a keen interest in Latin American food, and it's because of similar concepts. Does he mean, like like, I I spent time going to the I was in the West Coast and, like, whatever. Like, they have a lot of Mexican food there, and, like, something about the flavors and the components really spoke to me. I'm like, yeah. Because we're eating the same diets, man.

Aldo Camarena: 42:35

Like, that's still the beans, the corn, the squash, etcetera. Like so it's yeah. I think it it was one of my favorite things that's happened to me all year.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 42:43

So I I know there's also some dishes that are family recipes on the menu. Right? Like, we've got an aunt's pork belly, grandma's ceviche. Do you feel that maybe that is it's a different kind of a story you're telling when you're sharing your grandma's ceviche with strangers every night versus when you're creating a fun dish to tease Italians?

Ashley McKay: 43:05

I wouldn't say tease, but still.

Aldo Camarena: 43:07

I have it coming.

Ashley McKay: 43:08

Enough ravioli. But honestly, it was just like really special to be able to do that because that was like always one of my favorite dishes growing up was eating my grandma's ceviche. And she was like, bring over Tupperwares of it, like, with rice. And we're sitting there eating it. It just felt really homey.

Ashley McKay: 43:27

And then we finally asked her the recipe one day and we're like, so how do you make this? And she was telling us and I'm like, okay. Okay. So then I just adapted that a little to kinda make it a little more restaurant ish. Because Ceviche can be very beautiful and also sometimes not so beautiful.

Ashley McKay: 43:43

We wanted to make it like pretty And I think it turned out really well. And people were very surprised and shocked. They're like, this is amazing. Because I don't think there's like, you get a lot of Peruvian ceviche, and people have that kind of idea or like, all with chiles and stuff. But Ecuadorian Ceviche is a little different.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 44:00

Yeah. How is

Ashley McKay: 44:00

it there?

Aldo Camarena: 44:01

One of my favorite things, these people are I love them. But you guys dress your Ceviche like a hotdog. Yeah. It's got the little chopped tomato on there. You got the, you know, onions, the ketchup, the mustard.

Aldo Camarena: 44:14

The yellow mustard, the way. Had be like some of French's.

Ashley McKay: 44:15

Yeah. It's so good though. It's great. Yeah. From the the mustard is really good.

Ashley McKay: 44:21

But yeah. To to tell people, I'm like, yeah. So tomato based blah blah blah blah. There's ketchup in here too. And they're like, oh, no way.

Ashley McKay: 44:27

You guys make your own ketchup? I'm like, no, man. It's Heinz. I was like, whatever.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 44:31

And was this your grandma's style that she had adapted living in Canada, or is it what people were doing back in Ecuador?

Ashley McKay: 44:37

There's ketchup and mustard back there. I'm sure some there's obviously very many different styles of ceviche in Ecuador, of course, but the ones that we grew up on were ketchup and mustard. But it's really good. And then it was really nice seeing my family come in as well. And then I got to share that for them.

Ashley McKay: 44:53

I'm like, yo, this is mommy Tina's ceviche. And they got to eat it and they're like, yeah. This is this tastes right.

Aldo Camarena: 45:00

It's sometimes a little scary. We had this, like, like, indigenous Oaxacan lady, this lady from Guatemala, and, like, my mom all came to dinner together one time. And, like, I was just like, you're from the region of Oaxaca that most intensely focuses on moles and all these things. And, like, they're I know for a fact that their corn is incredible, and I'm about to serve you pozole. And I'm I'm I'm a little bit like, oh, boy.

Aldo Camarena: 45:24

Hope I hope I don't upset you with some of my more liberal uses of these ingredients or these techniques. I think that I was worried because authenticity is something that for someone who misses home, if you miss, you don't understand how like, I'm terrified of feeding someone who misses home something that gets their hopes up, and when they try it, it makes them upset. Yeah. Because it's happened to me. And sir, you can be so brutal in judging foods that promise that and missing.

Aldo Camarena: 46:00

And it's just I don't know. I I think that's one of my biggest nightmares as a chef is to serve a homesick Latin American migrant and having them be like, this isn't my food. Yeah. I think for that reason, it's also I think it it was about time that we, as a as a food culture in Ontario, built something that was meant to be wide reaching, but also with although the although we get a little wacky, that that wackiness is also, it's fun for people. But we also deliver true taste, like things that really hit people home.

Aldo Camarena: 46:32

We have we've had Chileans, Argentinians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Ecuadorians, Venezuelans, people from all over the Puerto Ricans, all over The Americas really be like, yeah. I see what you're doing, and you're doing it well.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 46:47

So has that sense of responsibility ever held you back in a creative way? Because I guess, I'm imagining the challenge that comes to mind is, say, Ecuadorian Ceviche, there's probably dozens of ways to make it, and everyone's grandma probably made it a little bit differently. So it's such a hard thing to do to to not disappoint someone.

Ashley McKay: 47:09

Yeah. I was really nervous putting that on the menu. It's like we had a

Aldo Camarena: 47:12

Oh my gosh. Christian.

Ashley McKay: 47:15

We had a Christian come in, one of our friends. He's like this Ecuadorian influencer. And we had just put the Ecuadorian Ceviche on the menu and he's like, gotta get the Ecuadorian Ceviche. And I was like,

Aldo Camarena: 47:27

are you sure? I know. Are you sure you sure this is the right thing?

Ashley McKay: 47:30

This was like, oh my god. Yeah. But he liked it.

Aldo Camarena: 47:35

Yeah. It

Ashley McKay: 47:35

was good. And like as long

Alex Abbott Boyd: 47:38

as So it doesn't hold you back?

Ashley McKay: 47:39

It doesn't hold me back. I don't think. And then, like, I think one really good way to look at it, this is referencing back to the cauliflower. Because it's such an the the the carrot mole is so untraditional. And I heard Adrian or Sommelier say something one time to a guest and I've been stealing it and telling everyone also.

Ashley McKay: 47:55

It's like, this is a mole that a grandmother would never make, but she'll be very proud of because it has, like, that soul. It has the spirit of a mole even though it's not, like, one of the right ones.

Aldo Camarena: 48:04

Yeah. We definitely go for the abstract a lot. Actually, before before we did the thing at Antylia some some years back, we were the chefs at a place called Little Jerry. And even back then, we were already playing around too much. We made, like, a galaxy mole.

Aldo Camarena: 48:20

So we did purple cabbage that was, like we did a bunch of purple things and chilies and stuff and I got crema and we literally painted the galaxy out of it and added little stars out of like, nigella and some other

Ashley McKay: 48:31

Pickled carrots. Or no. We did roasted multicolored heirloom carrots and shaped them like stars and put them throughout the mold and dusted like

Aldo Camarena: 48:39

And the moon too.

Ashley McKay: 48:39

The moon. You get a moon and dusted like purple or pink powder. What was it? It was like pomegranate.

Aldo Camarena: 48:45

It was

Ashley McKay: 48:45

We had to do pomegranate or something just to get that like galaxy color. It was crazy.

Aldo Camarena: 48:52

But No. We've never been afraid to be super wacky. We've realized that instead of pushback, we actually get a lot more interest. People are like, wait. You're doing your insane thing again.

Aldo Camarena: 49:00

Right? Yep. The Cinco de Mayo event was exactly that. We had an eight course taco tasting thing because Cinco de Mayo landed on taco Tuesday. So we're like, we need to go all out.

Aldo Camarena: 49:13

It needs to be it needs to be, like, half serious, but also half just like something But really we really messed ourselves up because we were pressing Tortillas a Pig several thousand several 100 times.

Ashley McKay: 49:24

How many different kinds of was there? There was, like, six

Aldo Camarena: 49:27

I think eight kinds of of Eight

Ashley McKay: 49:28

kinds of masas. So we had all different colors and different corns, and it was like, oh my god. But it was fun.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 49:35

So there's certain ingredients you guys won't touch. I've heard you're not a fan of guacam.

Aldo Camarena: 49:42

No. Okay. So I just don't think it needs to be on everything. I think that was we there was definitely an an era of Toronto where we had, like, everything was an ad of guacamole for $3. Is this my milk?

Aldo Camarena: 49:55

We're putting guacamole in coffee now? Is that what we're doing? It was just like random things. It was like, why? Why when Toronto was really big on bacon and everything had to be bacon this, bacon that.

Aldo Camarena: 50:06

But yeah. No. We occasionally use guacamole, but we use the smallest amount Yeah. That you ever see. It's

Ashley McKay: 50:11

We put avocados on stuff now. We've had I just I think just one person be like, but you guys didn't use avocados. Like, was like, no. We use them sometimes. Yeah.

Ashley McKay: 50:19

Just not all the time.

Aldo Camarena: 50:20

Ingredients, I wouldn't touch. I would say a store bought tortillas, but I I have an idea for one one day in the future to do a side by side tasting menu with real masa and then shitty masa. But outside of that, I would never wanna do store bought tortillas. That's something that I don't think that should be outside of using it as an example of what not to do. Yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 50:43

Yeah. We like to work with Whole Foods a lot, actually. We need to go to down to the base of what everything's made out of and build it from there. So another thing you could think of?

Ashley McKay: 50:52

Bugs. I that that's just a personal thing.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 50:55

Cempolina is not gonna be on the menu?

Aldo Camarena: 50:57

Maybe maybe in a pop up or something. I think that yeah. There is I like them. I don't think that everyone does. So maybe that's yeah.

Ashley McKay: 51:05

I will eat a bug once.

Aldo Camarena: 51:08

You have eaten bugs.

Ashley McKay: 51:09

I know. I will eat each one once just to taste it. Like we we ate little the the palm

Aldo Camarena: 51:15

chamomile grubs? Oh, man. Yeah. Those are. We we were in the Amazon one time, and our tour guide is like, hey, hold on.

Aldo Camarena: 51:20

Let me let me show you something. Pulls up to a little place. They had a high level, like, barbecue setup, but on the sticks were palm grubs. So these massive, like they're like this size. And you're supposed to just grill them and eat them.

Aldo Camarena: 51:32

Right? And I'm like, you know what? I can do this. I'm down. Let's do this.

Aldo Camarena: 51:35

And I finally asked, she's like, know what? Maybe we can do this. And he's like, hey, man. Can I see your hand for a second? I'm like, hey, what's up?

Aldo Camarena: 51:40

And he like just drops a whole bunch of them on my hand and they're wriggling. No, man. You can do that after I've eaten them. Like, now I don't know if I wanna.

Ashley McKay: 51:47

They were delicious.

Aldo Camarena: 51:48

Surprisingly, you're delicious.

Ashley McKay: 51:49

They were very delicious. But and that's just one time.

Aldo Camarena: 51:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 51:57

I was gonna say, how is it working together and being together?

Aldo Camarena: 52:00

It is every every every day, it's, like, different. Right? We have our good days. We have our bad days. But it's usually, I think we both understand that we're like, like, we are in this mission together.

Aldo Camarena: 52:10

We're doing the same thing together. There are times that I'm like like, I I don't like certain roles that we have had in the past, and it'll come up where it's like, one of us has to tell the other person something they're they don't wanna hear. And it sucks when you realize that the person you have to do that to is your partner. And it sucks when you're hearing it from your partner. And we understand that on both sides of this, it's just kinda like, this is our life.

Aldo Camarena: 52:39

We have to disagree on this right now, and something needs to yeah. It needs to come to the point where we're past it so we can go back to the part where it's super fun to work with with each other.

Ashley McKay: 52:50

But I think also we both realize that service is service. Time in the restaurant is business time. And then we go outside of that and get to live our lives as a happy couple. Because it's it is difficult. I think a lot of people are always kind of, how do you do that?

Ashley McKay: 53:06

And it's just we just do it.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 53:08

I wish I had spent all day with my wife though.

Aldo Camarena: 53:11

Yeah. Ashley at work is not Ashley outside of work for me. Yeah. Like

Ashley McKay: 53:16

We're very different people in in work mode versus not work mode. There's this big flip. But it's There's also,

Aldo Camarena: 53:23

like, very romantic about it, though. Honestly, man, like, I feel like I fall in love again every time I see Ashley just crush a service and the way that she moves and the way that she's not just moves physically, but the way that she's moving, the pace of what she does and how and kinda how it's some it's awesome. It's like watching a rock star every Friday and Saturday. Someone you look up to a lot just doing their thing and killing it. And it's like, fuck yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 53:51

There's times that I'm just like, yeah. We need to still be very serious, but I'm like, I love that I get to just be around this.

Ashley McKay: 53:58

And we both have our strengths that we excel at, and it's nice to watch each other do that. It works really well. We fill all the little gaps together. Nice.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 54:09

That's beautiful. This is a final question. When someone leaves Antylia, besides a full belly, what do you want them leaving with?

Aldo Camarena: 54:20

I think my favorite thing that happens occasionally is a lot of people are like, I wanna learn how to cook this now. And that for me, that is rewarding as all hell. There are recipes that I not all of them. There's some some things that we need to keep kinda in the family. Right?

Aldo Camarena: 54:37

But there's some a lot of our recipes, we just, like, take it. Take it. And please, if you have any questions, let me know. Or if you need to find the right right ingredients, I I know exactly who has the best version of all these Latin American ingredients. So just shoot me a message if you have any questions or anything like that.

Aldo Camarena: 54:55

But definitely go home and cook for yourself. Go and cook for someone you care about. Engage with food. And and and maybe go and buy from cool people. Go to the farmer's market on Dufferin.

Aldo Camarena: 55:05

They're amazing. Go to Onosotolo and check out their Latin American products. Awesome that that's something they have. Go to Kensington and go to Vita Market and buy some things and then go buy go to her aunt's place across the street and eat a really nice ceviche or something. Like, that's be excited about food again.

Aldo Camarena: 55:22

That's my favorite thing. It's like and not just going

Alex Abbott Boyd: 55:25

to

Aldo Camarena: 55:25

a restaurant just to consume, but think about the food that you're eating and explore the really fun things that that that are there that's we we should be making these things fun. But it's yeah. Especially when I say young kids talking about cooking and, like, during your twenties, man, if you start now, you're gonna be awesome ten years from now.

Ashley McKay: 55:44

It's been a lot of fun. I love seeing people just have having had a nice time. And like you were saying, just being very engaged and curious and taking that outside of the space because I think a lot of dining experiences don't do that. Or maybe we're just so used to it that

Aldo Camarena: 56:03

I don't know. I think I think yeah. I think, yeah, there's like a there's experiences of going out to a nice restaurant and being like, that was all really cool. But there's experience of going out to a restaurant. I mean, like, I wanna know more about this.

Aldo Camarena: 56:18

Yeah. I wanna maybe maybe only wanting to know more about corn. A lot of times it's the chilis that really how many kinds of chilis are there? I'm like, no no clue, man. There's a lot of them.

Aldo Camarena: 56:25

But it's the curiosity of it all, the wanting to learn, the wanting to build oneself That is really awesome when you can see that in people who leave Antylia. That is it's just cool as hell, man.

Ashley McKay: 56:38

And after having been with these guests for their experience and spending time with them all night, and then they leave with a big smile on their face. It's really special. Because especially I think a lot of the times in the kitchen, you don't get to see that at

Aldo Camarena: 56:49

all. True.

Ashley McKay: 56:50

It's really nice. When you just get to see happy people.

Aldo Camarena: 56:55

Occasionally, leave with friends. And it's it's not just us. Sometimes it's someone else they meet there or they're like asking us for accommodations and someone over here is like, actually, no. You should check out this plate. Like Yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 57:07

You guys do that. You guys talk about this and maybe go there together. Like, we've sent a couple people to other places, and they're like, they meet someone there. And they're like, cool. Yeah.

Aldo Camarena: 57:15

Let's go check that out. I'm also going there. Oh my god. And then it gets alright. By the way, guys, you have a six top cup.

Aldo Camarena: 57:20

You're welcome.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 57:23

Awesome. Anything else either of you would like to add?

Aldo Camarena: 57:26

I think I wanna just go ahead and say it because we do so much content for the restaurant. I promise we'll stop if you guys show up. Just like, all of this is us advertising a restaurant. Our restaurant is located right at Dufferin And Bloor. We're not that far.

Aldo Camarena: 57:47

Just come by. We're not dead, but we're not I legitimately think we're not as busy as we could be. Our that neighborhood is a little it's a little different because we're not on the Oddington or on the college or on the on the big booming neighborhood. But come by. It's a very fun time.

Aldo Camarena: 58:02

Just come and check it out. And and, yeah, that's it. We're we're ready for you guys. That's it.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 58:10

And where should they follow on Instagram?

Aldo Camarena: 58:11

Antylia Toronto. It's all one word, I think.

Ashley McKay: 58:14

Yes.

Aldo Camarena: 58:15

And you can see my face every time.

Alex Abbott Boyd: 58:17

Thank you both so much for your time.

Ashley McKay: 58:19

Thank you. It was fun.

Aldo Camarena: 58:20

Yeah.