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We're going behind the scenes to see and understand modern agriculture, because no matter whether you're in it or not, you probably don't know all the pieces to just how incredible, diverse and multi-layered agriculture is. We do this by uncovering the real stories, experiences and voices of modern agriculture.
Oli Le Lievre 0:00
The Better Business series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. Across these next few weeks and episodes, we're going behind the scenes and chatting to some people who are making some serious impact and inroads across Australia. And they're not just limited to agriculture. Our aim is to uncover what's worked for them, discuss their learnings, and through their stories provide ways for you to get some of those aha moments or things that might be able to benefit you, your business and your community. Well, good day, welcome back to episode two of this better business podcast. With Grace Brennan, if you haven't listened to the first episode that we did with her, jump on back and give it a listen. In Episode Two, Grace shares more about the role of vulnerability, how she's utilized outsourcing for various tasks and aspects of the business. Sometimes, it's important to admit that what you don't know is what you don't know. And how she is just asked lots of questions. She shares some of the key learnings along the way. And how much of a role now is actually the path that she really loves, versus the path that just needs to be done in the business. We also close by touching on the role of mentors, friends, and most importantly, jacker husband in supporting her to pursue what is one of the most impactful businesses I believe, in rural Australia. Let's get into it.
You mentioned before there that you guys kind of you didn't have to over communicate things you just knew how it needed to be done with? Did you like segregated? Or was it literally like, let's just be generalists, and just we know that 100 businesses need to get on let's just start hacking away at that list.
Speaker 2 1:45
That's actually a really good question. Can I just divert a little bit because this is relevant? No, that's absolutely perfect. In only the freedmen interviewed me once, and I admire her business, Mamma mia, if anyone who doesn't know, but it was a business podcast, and she was asking me all these questions. And at the end, I was like, This is so frustrating, because we need to flip this around. Like, I need to be asking you questions, I need to be absorbing your expertise and insight. And she was this was when the recording was off over two. Okay, I'll give you three questions go. And I hadn't prepared as like, oh, shit, like one of the most important questions, but one of them was about a key hire. You know, okay, you've decided to commercialize this idea you've got, who is your first hire? And she said, well, a generalist that's going to do things like you would do them. And that you trust implicitly, to almost share the same instinct as you have on the direction of the business on the operations. And that's who I would get in early on. And that's who I did get, you know, she gave me an example. And it resonated so much, because mill wasn't a key hire or massage. She was somebody who was at the kitchen table with me, as we were discussing the impact of drought. And I had this idea, and I had said, Can you help me with it? So she kind of got roped in, without knowing what the hill it would become. And I was too scared to say no, at any point, probably. And I remember, you know, we'd have these fun moments, went to Canberra for something, and I was like, let's go and get a drink. And she's like, No, I've got to, she was like, instinctively adding all the businesses, we never had anything to do with your spreadsheet, she was really committed to the spreadsheet. So when I suppose I got Emily that I couldn't have anticipated was somebody incredibly committed to the job and the cause. And she just knew what her skill set was. And I just knew what mine was. And because we were building this thing together, we didn't have to talk about it was like, Well, you just utilize your own instincts and your own skills. And I'll utilize mine, and we'll grow it as big as we can. Then once we built the website, I had had a little bit of experience in it. And Millie had none. So she was very open about that. And we'd kind of have this conversation about well, I don't understand. And I kept wanting to change my mind that, you know, I kind of have an idea and want to go that way and really be like, I remember her saying to me once, okay, I'm finding this a little bit overwhelming. I'm not with you on it. So just tell me what I need to do. And I'll do it. And that kind of became I think she liked to have a plan. And no, we're all going from A to B. And I'll be the pest who sometimes when A to E to F to G to two, back to B.
Oli Le Lievre 4:18
So spell road. Is this really too
Speaker 2 4:21
long winded. But the point is that we did kind of one thing that we've been really good at is understanding what we don't know and asking lots of questions. And we built this website with an Australian company called marketplace and were brutally honest about how little we knew and basically absorbed as much as we could in the build process. We built it faster than they'd ever built one before and launched I think faster than they'd ever with more businesses on board than they'd ever launched with. So we did things well somehow and I think it was through she kind of commitment and momentum and knowing that we needed to get it in the market before Christmas. And I think that coming back to me Friedman the point of me saying And that was the counting on your staff members instincts and in our business that goes for stakeholder management, but also curation. And you know, if you're live ultimately in ecommerce, and we're styling fashion, and we're putting together social media posts, and we had that understanding, we trusted each other to instincts. And that was really important. So sorry if that's too blurry, but but I think it's kind of a valuable. Yeah, it's almost like you feel like you need a science behind it. But actually, we landed in our natural state of flow together and kind of built the business around that.
Oli Le Lievre 5:36
I love that. And, well, a few things that I think we can naturally flesh out from that. And you've chatted a little bit about the outsourcing side of things. So how did you make decisions? And I love that you said, you're just really upfront and honest about the things you didn't know. So how did you approach the outsourcing as well as knowing that? Yeah, it's a business that's growing, that these things cost money, and you need to fund it.
Speaker 2 5:56
Yeah, I ran really lean. So investing in outsourcing didn't happen until we were making money. I wasn't interested in going into debt to fund buy from the bush, other than, you know, I suppose other than kind of in kind contribution. So I was pretty particular about that. I remember my first financial outlay was to a solicitor to do some trademark law for me, and this is an example of that stewing on a decision on, I'd got this advice, I got advice early on about it. And advice was, Oh, don't worry, like, you know, I don't think you'd need to worry about spending money on trademark for something like this. And then that lawyer got back in touch with me and said, I probably underestimated what buy from the Bush was going to do. So rethinking it, I think it is sensible that you look at this. So on the Friday her, she gave me advice on what we could possibly trademark, given that the language is pretty generic. And she said, Look, this is the cost, you have to think about it, it is, you know, you're gonna have to spend some money on this, if you're going to do it, do you want me to lodge it? And I was like, ah, and I think people who have been in a startup might relate to this in the sense that, you know, sometimes you feel like you're just throwing money after money after money. And having come out of that context and into bite from the bush, I didn't want that feeling again. I was like, Oh, just give me the week. I'll just think about for the weekend. And on Monday, I got a message from this solicitor saying, Please tell me that you're related to this person who shared my last name in Queensland because they've just launched a track back on the Woods by from the bush, as I know, I don't know those people. Oh, my God, yes. Over the weekend, they done it. But upon researching it, I realized they actually did run an organization that was relating to Queensland, it was kind of a similar concept in Queensland. So they'll probably protecting themselves against me. And we don't we've obviously got lots of PR, and lots of you know, so I can't blame them. But it did. It was a shock. I thought by the so I've just missed that opportunity. So yes, in terms of outsourcing, I wasn't crazy. I did it as I needed to do it. I was aware of the skills that I didn't have. I certainly enlisted I've since enlisted, you know, another solicitor for contract help, which was really important things that I know that I didn't want to wing. He's his name's Andrew Cameron, if you look at his great for startup contracts, and that kind of thing. And yeah, I think also being realistic about the return on investment of those spins, and you know, some things are necessary spend some things are nice to haves. And I would kind of judge those accordingly, and probably made some mistakes, and probably should have invested more in various things over time.
Oli Le Lievre 8:39
Yeah, God, so many little nuggets. Is there something that you obviously the trademark that stands out? But is there something else now with the benefit of hindsight that you go, Oh, if only we'd done this or hadn't done this at this stage, that you think back to it?
Speaker 2 8:54
I'm not trying to doing that. I kind of think it's unproductive. I suppose if there was something really major, maybe I'd have it so no, the answer might be no, I could have done things better. There's a there was also a group that started up a Facebook group and called it hashtag by from the bush. And I didn't know that groups are actually more powerful than pages. And our buy from the Bush was a page on Facebook, not a group. So that group went bananas and you know, things like that. That was an easy, you know, probably should have known that probably should have avoided that. But it was also kind of a we weren't building a business will. And in a way their message was as good as ours. It was kind of driving income into those small businesses. So yeah, I think I will say that I think financial planning cash flow budgets, that is an area that I would love to have been stronger at and invested more time in and the business model, no matter how good the idea and the energy and the traction in the business model is so critical. And that's the thing that I think Probably a bit bored by, so don't spend enough time on it.
Oli Le Lievre 10:05
Yeah, I think that's something which I've probably picked up on as well. Like everyone talks about cash flow is king cash flow is king and you're like, oh, yeah, there's money in the bank or whatever. And then it's like, oh my god, okay. Cash flow is king, because it is really absolutely ebbing and flowing. Yeah, yeah. So, one thing we often hear in farming businesses is around the jobs that people love doing. And that's just where they spend the bulk of their time. You touched on maybe the things you don't necessarily like doing where you should spend more time. What are the parts of your job today, we bought from the bushes, CEO and founder that you just absolutely love doing.
Speaker 2 10:40
I love communicating. I love the writing copywriting. I love the creative side of it. So, you know, finding cool products and introducing them to the world really excites me. I love the community building aspects. So if I can create opportunity for those kind of either rural communities or business communities to come together, that really fills my cup. But I think what I've learnt actually, what's been a surprise to me is that perhaps I'm a creative, which I never would have described myself as before, I can't paint I don't draw, I'm not like, you know, I'm not a designer. But I think that's the brain that I have. And I love the ideation, I love marketing campaign ideation pulling those things together, storytelling, and in a more administrative sense. I have loved working with a team of women, and not necessarily intentionally, but it just so happens that our team have all been women. And most of them are rural women, most of whom are mothers, and just being okay with flexibility. Having that implicit trust in this team of women and what they can do has been pretty rewarding for me. And working with friends. So fun.
Oli Le Lievre 11:55
Yeah. All right. And we spent way too much time at work not to have fun. No way. Yes. So on the back of that, how have you prioritize that? Well, actually, I was gonna say, a creative but also maybe like a daydreamer in the sense of big picture thinking of like the what's possible type thing. So the creative doesn't necessarily have to be the arty type one, the dreamer? Have you prioritize the things that you really love doing? And have you either handed off the things that maybe don't light you up? Or have you just had to come to terms with actually, you might do less and less of the things that you actually really love in the business?
Speaker 2 12:29
I think ultimately, 80% of what I do is the stuff I don't love. And 20% is what I love, so no, but I have tried, I think scaling up something like this has its challenges. And the voice. I'm kind of committed to this voice that we've cultivated with my friend Bush and his brand. And sometimes delegating that to others has been difficult. And I think if you asked any of our team, they tell you that I was a pest with reviewing copy and reviewing words and kind of editing stuff. And so even though I've tried to kind of take myself out of the frontline stuff, actually, there's some things I've learned that I'm probably committed to in a way that doesn't let me so yeah, I think business is probably more during stuff. You don't like them doing stuff you like, unfortunately, I might be wrong, though.
Oli Le Lievre 13:22
No. And they do say the the old 8020 rule 20% as well, like you kind of now that they're 80% of what you do is things which don't necessarily light you up, but that 20% that you really do is what keeps you on track for that fire to make the impact that you guys are really striving towards and going well, actually that pot where the bulk of my time goes is actually into the essential parts, not just the fun, but
Speaker 2 13:47
yeah, and I think I remember a friend of mine, saying to me early on, are you but like, I'm not a workaholic, like you. I remember having this moment going, oh my god, she thinks I'm a workaholic. Because I'm the furthest thing from workaholic I would. I don't I'm not driven by that instinct at all. It has to be there has to be fun and enjoyment in it for me. Otherwise, yeah, I couldn't do it. So I think there are different motivators. But I have learned that about myself that I have to say yes to the fun bits to keep my head in the game, because, and yeah, because otherwise, I think I just have to get it out.
Oli Le Lievre 14:21
It's so funny, and going on a tangent here. But we're at this careers fair today. And I literally know, because I spent nearly most of the last four weeks in the office. And today I honestly feel like I'm jumping around like a hyperactive person because I know that this is the stuff in the business that I actually really do love. And now the stuff the last four weeks has felt like a chore but there's still parts of it that I really do enjoy it. But yeah, today I can actually feel it. Like I'm like, No, this is so fun. This is so awesome. This is why we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker 2 14:49
Yes. And you just hope that the gaps between those moments aren't too great because you can lose your way I think
Oli Le Lievre 14:57
for sure. So two questions to wrap on it One, I'd love to know what role have mentors but actually also, what role has Jack had as your significant other in really helping you make the biggest impact and be creating this business into the best thing that can be?
Speaker 2 15:12
I'm so glad you asked that because it's significant. I remember early on, well, first of all, when you fall in love with a farmer, you learn about vocation. And the idea that he was never going to be anything else other than a farmer and that purpose day in day out, and the joy of work. And I always often say that to him, he doesn't know how lucky he is to want to arrive at work, he doesn't have to arrive, he's at work every time he wakes up. But you know, he, that joy of going to work is a privilege. But that's a lovely thing to observe and to absorb. And, in fact, it can be a bit of a burden, I think, because unless you feel that in your job, it kind of feels meaningless when you are surrounded by the passion of farming. But early on in life in which I remember sitting, you know, maybe a month in or whatever it was, and our lives have been kind of taken over by it. And all mine had anyway. And he arrived in from the Pentagon, it was the middle of the drought. And he was miserable and literally covered in dust. And the household was a nightmare. And I kind of had to sit him down, like I said, you know, I think you're going to have to be okay with chaos. Because this thing that I've been doing, which to be honest, he was a bit oblivious to that this 500 Which thing, it's like, it's got the opportunity to do something really important. And I need to be able to do it. And I just need you to be okay with everything else being chaotic for a while. And he sort of said, okay, yeah, well, yeah, I'll let you do that. And I was like, nananana, can't let me do it, you're not letting me do it, allowing me to do it, I need you to help me do it. And we kind of had a laugh afterwards, because it was one of those like this could turn ugly very soon, unless you understand this as a man that you're not allowing me anything. But it was pretty important that I asked for his help in that way. So that because I think as a woman, your day job is kind of being a parent and a partner. And the work that you do outside of that, usually, it had always taken second place in my life anyway. So to allow it to take center stage felt like an enormous sacrifice for the family. And it needed both of us to buy into that. So it may sound a bit precious, but I actually think that's an enormous contribution that he made to my friend Bush. And the other thing, obviously, is that he has a very different personality to me, and he's not somebody who is crippled by self doubt. So in watching him work and kind of build, you know, move from family farming into a corporate environment. And watching him tackle that has been, I've just been able to learn all the lessons that he's learned, but by default, and so I often think he's kind of taught me to believe that even if you fail, your decision wasn't wrong, because you made that decision. But he really believes in his capacity to make the right decision at the time. So I think that that's a really valuable thing that I've absorbed from him also
Oli Le Lievre 18:25
a lover. And that is such a important piece, I guess to get through like osmosis, isn't it?
Speaker 2 18:31
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the thing about farming, I think, is that they're problem solvers day in day out, they test. They, you know, trial and error. I was gonna say iterate, but I cringe at that word. But it's true that in farming, it's a natural environment for testing and kind of making decisions based on whether you know, you've got like input inputs versus outputs, constant cash flow, reassessment constant forecasting, I think it's an amazing business to observe from the outside. And that lack of control because of seasonality. It doesn't mean that they sit down and do nothing. In fact, they're constantly re evaluating what they can do to mitigate risk. And I think if you're building a business in rural Australia, and a startup business, and running it lean, there's so many lessons to be drawn from agriculture. And I think it's an incredible environment to do that with because the culture of trial and error and testing the market exists anyway, so we kind of a little bit freer to launch your business and just have a crack.
Oli Le Lievre 19:38
Absolutely. That is such good advice. So I'd love if I said I was gonna there's two more questions, but they're kind of short ones.
Speaker 2 19:44
Okay. Meanwhile, am I the most long winded interviewer you've ever had? I feel like this. So lofty. Oh my god, this
Oli Le Lievre 19:52
is awesome, guys. So, final two questions. What do you do outside your day job which helps you deliver and make the impact You want to?
Speaker 2 20:01
Yeah, so as I said, I think that my day job is not buy from the bush, my day job is being a mother and a partner. And I include them both, because I think they have, you know, slightly different roles. But they absolutely informed by from the bush, I think the one of the things that I've learned from this is that actually, you've seen being your credentials, and your bio can say one thing, but it's your lived experience outside of those that informs your potential and your potential to do the job. And so raising four kids having through those very quickly, living through a drought, observing my community, get through that understanding the needs of small business owners and neighbors, has allowed me to build a business, communicate those needs effectively to an audience who live in the city. So I feel like fire from the Bush has kind of allowed me to tap into my lived experience and injected into a professional setting in a really powerful and empowering way. And I think that people maybe undervalue the power of observation and just kind of taking it all in, in asking questions and, and kind of understanding the community around you. And I like to think that in doing that, I've actually been able to build a pretty powerful platform.
Oli Le Lievre 21:19
And you most definitely have, it's remarkable, incredible. And go our tech, so much inspiration from what you and the team have done. So one final question, and I need to ask is technically not part of this series. But anyway, you get the chance to go and chat to you 10 students in the city about careers in and around agriculture?
Speaker 2 21:39
Oh, no. Oh, my God, I know this question. I don't have an answer for you. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 21:43
What would you say to them about why they should consider a career in agriculture?
Speaker 2 21:47
I think my instincts are, that anything you tell them, they're not gonna listen to? What I believe is that we need to create such a strong brand of agriculture, but rural Australia more broadly, that people really want to live here. The industry comes next. I think if we build community, if we build a place where people want to be and live, and feel like they can have really fulfilling interesting lives out here, then we will attract the best people into agriculture as an industry. That's what we're about to buy from the bush, we believe in kind of investing in vibrant communities so that from that we draw skill and talent and energy and optimism. So is that okay, for an answer?
Oli Le Lievre 22:35
Absolutely. It is. It means just that we just need to keep showing up and doing getting the little things right and shaping that narrative. And I think delivering on whatever the purpose is of what we are trying to create for our rural communities for the agriculture sector, whatever it might be. And actually, it's not just a 42nd answer the students it's actually got to be lived and breathed.
Speaker 2 22:55
And I think it's an branding is where we need to be pouring a whole heap of resources and investment. I think there's a branding issue, and that it's not just egg. It's living in rural Australia. So let's create some incredible lifestyles out here. And nobody can argue with that. And that means, you know, supporting small business, it means investing in education and opportunity and all of those other things as well.
Oli Le Lievre 23:21
Well, Grace, thank you so much for spending the last hour or so with us. This series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. And our aim is to sit down and chat with various people who have lived experience in business management, through their stories. It's our aim to share their learnings, their approaches, and how they've supported developing themselves, their businesses and their teams.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai