GARDEN CHURCH Podcast

What is GARDEN CHURCH Podcast?

"Here as in Heaven."

For more information visit : garden.church

Intro/Outro:

Welcome to Garden Church podcast. We're taking a break from a revelation series while our lead pastor, Darren Roundson, is on sabbatical. During this time, we're gonna continue to push into the Garden's mission of creating resilient disciples by working our way through the Sermon on the Mount. Over the next few weeks, we'll have some amazing pastors from all over the world coming to impart their wisdom and insight on what is the most influential and profound sermon ever given. Enjoy.

Bill Dogterom:

Well, good morning. It's good to be with you. Before I dig into this, I just have been in the course of the service had a couple of things that I think I need to just stop and I've learned over the years that I just gotta do that. So, with me if you would please. I have a sense that there's somebody, maybe more than one, young man, young woman, maybe both, who have been really struggling with comparison, especially in the realm of beauty this past week or so, particularly, and it's gotten really heavy.

Bill Dogterom:

And you've been tempted to evaluate your beauty, and I'm thinking very specifically of physical beauty, in comparison to other people and have ignored the voice of your heavenly father who has spoken beauty over you. And, if that resonates, I wanna pray for you, just before we move move on. But the second one is, somebody else, I'm not sensing age on this one, but your body has been trying to say something to you in the form of illness and it's not about healing, it's not about disobedience, it's about your body saying something and more specifically, I think it's about Jesus wanting to communicate with you through your body. And I don't know if that makes sense. If it makes sense, it's probably something you should attend to and the goal is not to ignore it, to listen carefully, to ask the holy spirit to tell you what he's trying to say, not as a problem to fix but as a voice to honor.

Bill Dogterom:

So Lord, I just pray whoever it is, if they just even step in for a moment consciously to that awareness of comparison that has tripped them up and especially as they look in the mirror and they don't see beauty, especially in comparison to their friends or people they don't even know, help them to know that they will never be beautiful themselves if beauty is always defined by somebody else, and that they would instead hear your voice declaring their goodness and their beauty and that they would choose to believe that even if they can't yet completely see it. And I pray Lord for that one or others whom to whom you are speaking to them through their body, through this discomfort, through this challenging diagnosis even, I don't know what it is, but that they would pay attention to your voice through that gift that you have given them and attend to the invitation that is kind of woven through it. We pray for courage in that. My sense is that there's some courage involved in saying yes to what is being heard and yeah. Amen.

Bill Dogterom:

Okay. So we're, finishing up on this this conversation. Sermon on the Mount has been part of the garden story from the get go. We've looked at it numerous times and will again, I think, because it's kind of the Newt Rockne speech at the end of the, you know, as he steps into the role of head coach for Notre Dame. Gentlemen, this is a football.

Bill Dogterom:

This this is we have to go back to basics. We have to be reminded of where this whole thing is going. And I love that Jesus puts the cookies on the bottom shelf. He he starts right from the very beginning and just says, this is this is this is where we're going guys. I need you as as self eliminating as you tend to be because you've been put out with the trash, you've been marginalized by your culture or because your own personal story has been one of failure and loss, you don't you don't get to thereby disqualify yourself from joining me and saving the world.

Bill Dogterom:

You're you're included. The up and outs also included, but don't forget the down and outs. They're they're included too. And and the way we're gonna do that is not by dint of effort, not by kind of muscling it through or white knuckling it through. We're gonna do that by transforming you in such a way that your righteousness, the way you live, the goodness that you do comes naturally and easily to you.

Bill Dogterom:

It won't be good because you're thinking about it or because you're afraid of being punished or or promise some level of reward. You will have become When we're all done, you will have become good for nothing. Not for promise of reward, not because you're afraid of being punished, but simply because you have become It will be natural for you to forgive people the way it is naturally easy for you not to forgive people now. That's transformation. That's a work of the spirit, clearly and obviously.

Bill Dogterom:

This is not character formation. This is transformation. And in that then you will be able to be part of a culture, salt and light, a vessel of transformation, a vessel of preservation, a promise that God hasn't forgotten them, a light, a city on a hill that when people are wandering around in the dark, if they just lift their eyes, they'll see you and know that there's a place of safety and refuge there. An illumination that's not hidden. And then he marks what that looks like in chapter five, just give us some snapshots ending with this outrageous claim that by the time he's all done, we will love our enemies naturally and without thinking about it.

Bill Dogterom:

And then he talks about the practices that support that, that relational conversation that is not about getting things done, not about getting prayers answered because your heavenly father knows what you need before you ask anyway. So clearly the conversation he wants is not about your agenda as much as it about your learning his heart, learning his way of living. And then he frames it with, generosity that is not about performance and remains hidden for the most part, and, a fasting regimen that is not again about people thinking you're spiritual but actually becoming a person in whom the spirit dwells and can transform you because you have instead of eating food been consuming his word and it is now working, it's now metabolized, it's now part of you and it's starting to work its way out. And then, as as we turn the corner, he he draws the contrast between, the two different strategies, the two different ways of life, the mammon culture and the kingdom culture and then he begins this chapter seven with this, kind of a three ways of not getting things done followed by three ways of getting things done in the kingdom that, support the actual personhood, asking, seeking, knocking, respects the personhood of the one, with whom you are in conversation and and and engaged.

Bill Dogterom:

We'll circle back around on this briefly a little bit, but now, as he kind of starts to land the plane on the sermon, he he goes back to this wisdom motif that we've talked about before. There's two ways and and and Jesus in a nutshell capsulizes this idea of wisdom. If you don't change direction, you will end up where you're heading And by the time you get there, it will be too late to decide where you want to be. So, he's suggesting there's a broad way, well traveled, snacks along the way, plenty of company, and there's a whole boatload of people, including people that you know and love, who have chosen that way. But it leads to destruction.

Bill Dogterom:

I'm just telling you right now, it leads to destruction. So, my advice Jesus says would be not to choose that way because if you'd keep on your Instead, choose the narrow path in which there's only room for two to walk side by side, in which sometimes you'll feel abandoned, sometimes you'll feel absolutely and utterly alone, Sometimes it will be challenging and difficult and very painful and you will look at the off ramp that leads back to the road and it it will be attractive, but this is the road that leads to life. This is the road that leads to destruction and death. So choose wisely and well. And then we get to this place where his his heart, it just starts to beat for the church into the future.

Bill Dogterom:

He says, verse 15 chapter seven, beware of the false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing but really inwardly are ravenous wolves. Here's how you know them, by the fruit of their lives. Grapes aren't gathered from thorn bushes. Figs aren't gathered from thistles, are they?

Bill Dogterom:

Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire so you will know them by their fruit. Because not everybody who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of the heavens. Rather, it is the one who does the will of my father who is in the heavens.

Bill Dogterom:

They're the ones who will enter. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and in your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles? I will declare to them, I don't know you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. So, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them, that's the wise person.

Bill Dogterom:

The one who builds his house on the rock, the rains fall, the floods come, the winds blow and slam against that house, but it doesn't fall. It's been founded on the rock. On the other hand, everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, the floods came, the winds blew, slammed against that house and it fell and great was its fall. When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at his teaching because he taught them as one who had authority and not as their own scribes.

Bill Dogterom:

I don't know if if it has been your experience through this series. Like I said, I've been working through this one numerous times and every once in a while, I just think, Jesus, you can't be serious. And and repeatedly, as you know, we're assured, no, he really means this. It is way less important that you trust Jesus than that you become the kind of person he can trust. That's a hard thing for us to say because we we sing the songs of the cross, we sing the songs of the blood, we sing the songs of redemption, all right, all well, and all good, and then what?

Bill Dogterom:

The issue is not getting you into heaven. The issue is getting heaven into you and through you into the world for whom he came, loves and died. And in order to do that, in order to join him in salt and light, redemptive presence, we have to become certain kinds of people And it is fascinating to me that he is aware that part of the broad road that leads to destruction are spiritual charlatans who take advantage of our propensity for shiny things, who draw at our heartstrings for the sizzle and the performative aspects of our spirituality. And I think it's fascinating that here he is, you know, thirty one AD, Matthew is writing to a church at sixty, sixty five AD and already Matthew's church is saying, oh yeah, Jesus knows exactly what he's talking about. And Paul picks it up, Peter picks it up, Jude picks it up, John picks it up, they're all concerned because they know how readily the people of God, when the narrow path becomes difficult, look for a sedative.

Bill Dogterom:

Look for something addictive that draws us, attracts us into a spirituality that is transformative to nobody. Right? Because it's surface. It doesn't penetrate. So he said, but here's the good news, it's not hard to tell who they are.

Bill Dogterom:

It just just Now, notice what he said. This is about fruit and he uses two or three examples, grapes and figs, seasonal, right? But then he doubles down and says trees. I don't know if you've planted a fruit tree lately, but you're gonna be three or four or five years before the fruit of that tree is known. So what's he saying?

Bill Dogterom:

He's saying, look, when these guys come, they're slick, they're all that in a bag of chips, They every they don't don't don't don't follow them on Instagram. Don't don't be buying their books. Don't be listening to their podcast. Don't be getting on a bus and going up for the glory spout. Just pay glory attention to the daily stuff and watch how they live.

Bill Dogterom:

Don't listen to what they preach just yet, even if it's true, even if it's true. Because they're dressed in sheep's clothing, they know your language, They know how to they they know how to call the tune that you will heart respond to, but don't do that. Just just give it some space, give it some time. Pay attention to the fruit of their lives and then based on that, you can make a determinative judgment as to whether they're following in some ways, only to the degree to which they follow Jesus. Right?

Bill Dogterom:

So he's saying it's not difficult to tell. The problem is that these guys will almost always promise more than they can deliver because they're more interested in followers of them than in creating followers of Jesus. And there's all kinds of ways of producing outcomes. They've got a massive social media presence. They have a podcast series.

Bill Dogterom:

They have YouTube channels of their own. Then he's saying, just give him a pass. If you haven't encountered him on the narrow path, you won't encounter him on the broad road. It's really hard. In a celebrity driven Christian culture, it's really hard for us but he's saying here's what the stakes are, these guys, not everybody who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

Bill Dogterom:

This is the single For me, as a preacher, this is the single most terrifying passage of scripture. Not everybody who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens. They'll say, Lord, Lord, didn't we? In your name perform miracles, cast out demons, prophecy. And Jesus says, first, who are you?

Bill Dogterom:

I don't know you. You know my name but I don't know you, not at an intimate knowing heart level besides which you're workers of unlawlessness. You're not doing what you were authorized to do and you're doing what you were not authorized to do. He doesn't dispute that they haven't done these things in his name. He's just that saying, remember, it's one of the first three in the 10 words, you've used my name in an empty and meaningless fashion.

Bill Dogterom:

You've abused the name. You've taken the name in vain. You've used my name but for your gain, not for the sake of the kingdom. Those people, they may have been accurate prophetic words, those people may have been healed, miracles may have been performed, demons have been cast out. He's not disputing any of that, he's just saying, I didn't authorize you to do that out of relationship with me and my father.

Bill Dogterom:

And we know that Jesus himself did this, right? He never did a single thing except what he saw the father doing. He who was identified stood in a graveyard as the resurrection and the life. That's who he was and how many people did he raise that day? One.

Bill Dogterom:

And how many could he have raised? All of them. Doesn't make any sense to me. Does it make any sense to you? That's why he's not asking us whether it makes sense to us or not.

Bill Dogterom:

He's asking us to be in relational connection with him, so whether it makes sense or not, we're not deceived by these spiritualities that are not anchored in character. Because you'll notice what he's saying here, whatever fruit is, it's not the miraculous. It's it's it's not prophetic words of power and impact. It's it's not it's not demonic deliverance as important as those things are, and by the way, all of those people were still healed and still delivered, that's not what he's saying. He's saying it didn't arise out of a place of relationship which is the only thing finally that matters.

Bill Dogterom:

That's not fruit. Fruit is character and we have seen over the past years, we've seen, have we not, what happens when you disconnect the miraculous from a character capable of supporting the weight of it. And Jesus is aware that we're easily seduced by this because we long for miracles especially those of us who are dealing with physical issues or we want healing, we want healing and we know that he can heal us, we know that he can heal us. And so when he says no, it's hard to believe that that's the answer to our prayer. But if no can't be an answer, it's not really God you're after.

Bill Dogterom:

If your God can't say no to you, you need to get a better God because you don't have the God of Jesus who heard his father say no to him and took it to the cross. So he invites us into this astonishing awareness of not practicing lawlessness, not taking the name in vain, not using his character in a way for our own gain, but instead he says, blessed is the one who who hears these words of mine and acts on them. He really does intend us to become the kinds of people who can do this. And and the acting is the is the critical thing. Please notice, please notice this is hard for us but he's less concerned about whether you believe all of the right things about him then he is that you have begun to make efforts in the power of the spirit to follow him, to learn his way.

Bill Dogterom:

Remember those first five guys, Peter, James, John, Andrew, Matthew, they didn't believe the right stuff about Jesus but he invited them to follow. Belief gets straightened out in following, fall far faster than following gets straightened out in believing. Every demon in hell believes everything about Jesus that you believe according to Jesus's little brother who ought to know, James. So so it's it's not believing the right tick the box doctrine. It's about have you begun to put your feet in his footprints as struggling and stumbling and trying as hard as you can to do that.

Bill Dogterom:

Right? Because if you are, if you're learning, if you're putting them into practice as well and as best you can knowing that it will take a lifetime perhaps to be able to do it with integrity, that's okay. That's okay. Don't quit. Especially in the long boring middle.

Bill Dogterom:

Some of you have been been following Jesus enough now that it's starting to get boring. You okay? Kind of a that's important cause if you don't follow him in the long boring middle, you won't be there at the end of the age. Right? You'll you'll Oh, yeah.

Bill Dogterom:

At shiny things. So so he he invites us to to do that because why? The wind is gonna blow. The rain is gonna fall. The floods are gonna crash against the house of your life.

Bill Dogterom:

You will be protected from absolutely nothing by following Jesus. Isn't that annoying? Especially if you bought in on the kind of the timeshare principle of the gospel, you know, that Jesus just solves all things. I don't know about you, but my Jesus has just created way more problems than he's ever solved. And he's clear, you're not protected.

Bill Dogterom:

Life is gonna happen to you just like it happens to everybody else. The difference will be you will be deeply rooted, grounded in the reality of the kingdom, living your life shaped by obedience to me and when the wind blows, you won't be blown off, of course. When the floods come, you won't drown and even if you do, you'll be fine. You don't get pushed around by our feelings. On the other hand, the guy who hears the words of Jesus and organizes 83 study sessions and buys all the books on the sermon on the mount he can and reads them all with great diligence and fervor and writes great long comment, even preaches wonderful sermons about the kingdom.

Bill Dogterom:

Akkad come through the through the preaching and believing into the sermon on the mount, but doesn't actually begin to put his footprints in the footprints of Jesus. When the winds come, that guy's gonna get blown off course. His life has no foundation, he's built it on the sand. Don't you wish just going to church would fix it? This isn't the main event, Never has been, never will be.

Bill Dogterom:

In fact, in some ways, although we have a response time at the end of the service, the real altar call is tomorrow morning. Right? And then he ends with this Jesus, Matthew records this, Jesus finished teaching. How does he do this? The crowds were amazed because he didn't rely on external authorities, instead he lived, he spoke out of the center of his own life.

Bill Dogterom:

They could resonate with it. I don't know if your experience is the same as mine in this but I just look at Jesus and say sometimes, you've gotta be kidding. Are you serious? And he says, follow the bread crumbs bro. I'll get you home.

Bill Dogterom:

Notice how he's woven this through. So let's back it up. How do you do this? Notice how he begins this seventh chapter. How do you get things done?

Bill Dogterom:

Anybody needs some help in getting this done? He's given you strategy on how to do that. What is it? Ask. Seek.

Bill Dogterom:

Knock. That doesn't just work for human community, that works with our heavenly father who wants to give nothing but good gifts to his children, who's waiting for us to ask for help. Part of our training into the righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the pharisees that sets aside performative righteousness is a righteousness that roots in the transformation that can only be done by the power of the spirit. Do you need the holy spirit to get out of bed in the morning? Then ask.

Bill Dogterom:

He gives us capacity to do what otherwise there is no capacity to do and we will center for a counterfeit righteousness that is about white knuckling through changed behavior. At least I will. I don't know about y'all, but I will. Right? So, if you need some help on this, he says, ask.

Bill Dogterom:

And if that doesn't work, just keep looking. Keep looking. Seek. Knock on doors. Do this in community.

Bill Dogterom:

Right? And then back up. What are we seeking exactly? The kingdom of God and his righteousness. Let that be the the the single heartbeat of in every situation, every circumstance.

Bill Dogterom:

Keep your eyes wide open for the kingdom of God. Have your ears tuned for the whisper. Listen for the beat of angels wings. Listen for the awareness of God's presence with you in each and every moment. Because Paul says, the days you're living in are evil.

Bill Dogterom:

Let's be clear. Can I get a witness? Right? So what are you gonna do? Just cower and hunker down?

Bill Dogterom:

No. Let your vision, let your awareness be shaped by the fact that not only is the days you're living in are evil, but the kingdom of God is upon us. It's come. So be seeking the kingdom. Don't despair about evil days.

Bill Dogterom:

Need some help with that? Ask. That will empower your seeking. That will empower you to partner with God. Imagine what it would look like in the hundreds of us that are here this morning if every single one of us began moment by moment to redeem time, to take it off the market of evil and offer it up for kingdom purposes.

Bill Dogterom:

That's his plan. Salt and light, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny in cumulative effort changes the environment, changes the spaces. So we begin by seeking and he's aware that the temptation, the pull of mammon is pretty profound. The pull of the dirt is really profound, why? Because we're made of the dirt.

Bill Dogterom:

We want to return home because that's easy, that's the default. Into us have been breathed the breath of life. Our hearts are set on eternity and we feel the pull of the Anybody else feel the pull of the dirt? Man. So, says, don't be trying to game the system.

Bill Dogterom:

I know what you need. Seek the kingdom, I'll take care of what you need. Right? Then I want you to learn how to pray, I want you to learn how to fast, I want you to learn how to be generous, all of these spiritual practices that are just synopsized here in these three in a way that doesn't trust those things to produce the outcome. You are not made like Christ by doing the spiritual practices.

Bill Dogterom:

You are made like Christ when the holy spirit takes those spiritual practices and converts them into transformation. You can't do that, I can't do that. Right? He can do that. So, I don't wanna get good at fasting, especially not I don't wanna get good at fasting.

Bill Dogterom:

But anyway, I I Do you see what I mean? Otherwise, I'm gonna think my fasting has produced an outcome. Right? Or my praying has produced an outcome or my reading the bible has produced an Read the bible, pray, fast, solitudes, all of the spiritual practices that we've talked about over the years and will again do those things. Why?

Bill Dogterom:

Because they get us in the crosshairs of the flow of the spirit who does the work of transformation in us. And then as you do that, you will discover over time and it will surprise you just as much as it surprises everybody else that you have become more like Jesus than you used to be. You'll wake up one morning and realize, I have learned how to be angry in a way that accomplishes the righteousness of God. How did that happen? Right?

Bill Dogterom:

Because that's how it works. Yeah? It's how it worked with me. I've told you guys before, you know, I I I'm I'm an angry dad who was raised by an angry dad who was raised by an angry dad. But I tell you that boys number one and two, 40 and no.

Bill Dogterom:

Yeah. Forty two and forty and boy number three, these two had a different dad than he did. Why? Because right in the middle here, I decided to spend some time in solitude and silence. Because I realized where my anger finally was coming from, my insecurity and fear.

Bill Dogterom:

Right? And you know what I heard in the silence? Because the points of the silence is not just to be quiet, it's so that I can hear the voice of God. The point of the solitude is not to be alone, it's to be alone for the sake of presence of God. Because can we just be time out for a sec.

Bill Dogterom:

Being alone is non negotiable. If you're on that narrow road, there's room for two people. You and Jesus. So you're gonna be alone. Whether your alone converts to loneliness or to solitude makes the difference between the broad road and the narrow road.

Bill Dogterom:

Because what are you gonna hear in solitude? What are you gonna hear in silence? I'll tell you what I hear 90% of the time when I finally create enough space and presence. What I hear is, I love you and it takes me a while to believe it because I haven't heard that as a kid. My dad, angry dad, terrified.

Bill Dogterom:

Terrified. Right? But I hear it from my heavenly father and I think he means it. Know? And over the years, what has happened is that love which is astonishing has aligned my insecurity and fear to the point that I can be angry in Jesus name.

Bill Dogterom:

He did the same thing with lust, he did the same thing thing with sloth, all of all of my trophy room of stupid. You know what I mean? That's actually part of my character, it's part of that, and I can't redeem it on my own, but when I bring it to Jesus and trust the holy spirit, he is able to do what I cannot accomplish. Now remember, the goal is not so that I can be all that in a bag of chips. The goal is so that I can partner with him to save the world.

Bill Dogterom:

That's where this is going. That's where it's going. Are you in? Yes. We'll see.

Bill Dogterom:

Lord Jesus, we sit with this challenging invitation made all the more challenging in the sense that you clearly think we have the capacity and the power of the spirit to do this and we do. We don't wanna just say Lord, Lord as a doctrinal statement. We want to say, Lord, Lord, out of the fullness of relationship with you and so I pray that you would help us. Fill us with your spirit, we ask for more. The signs of revival, less about how we feel and more about transformed character.

Bill Dogterom:

We ask you, oh Lord, to come in Jesus name. Jesus name.

Intro/Outro:

Thank you for listening. For more information, please visit us at garden.church.