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The Sum of All Wisdom is built on a simple idea: music IS the sum of all wisdom.
More than a podcast, The Sum of All Wisdom is a community and resource platform dedicated to exploring music as a way of knowing. Music is humanity's oldest way of knowing and one of our best technologies for making meaning, and through long-form conversations with musicians, producers, writers, and cultural thinkers—along with performances, essays, and educational resources—we investigate the creative life and what it teaches us about memory, identity, creativity, community, and the human condition.
Whether you're a musician, artist, scholar, or simply someone who loves music and believes it matters, The Sum of All Wisdom is an invitation to listen more deeply: to great music, to the people who make it, and to the wisdom gained through a life devoted to music and musical worlds.
Because music is more than entertainment. It is one of humanity's most ancient ways of understanding the universe and our place in it.
Scott Catey (00:17)
My guest this week is Robin Hitchcock, legendary and iconic British singer-songwriter. Robin has a new memoir out, his second, titled Stranded in the Future. And we're here today to talk with him about the new book. We'll also hear from him about his first memoir, called 1967, How I Got There and Why I Never Left.
so we'll hear a little bit about both books and what's going on in his life.
Both books are published by Akashic books and you can find links to Akashic and the books in the show notes. Robin also has a new album coming out soon, July 24th, in fact. It'll be on Tiny Ghost Records. And we'll chat with him a little bit about the record and his band, the tour and living and playing and recording now in Nashville. I'm really happy to have Robin on the show. And let me say that I've also brought on a co-host for this episode, my good friend Andrew Hunt.
Scott Catey (01:04)
So we you and I have known each other for fifty years. This w we had a I you're a musician, you're an active musician, you're a working musician, you play in two bands, you're a songwriter, you've been songwriting for fifty years or more, and playing music for a good portion of that time. And so we've known each other f
over the course of essentially all of our lives. And you were on the podcast early on and we we talked about your experience and all that. but during that podcast you mentioned how much a fan of Hitchcock you are, Robyn Hitchcock. And shortly thereafter this opportunity to read his book and review it for Akashic Books.
came up and I asked if that would be possible and they said yes and they sent me the book and my first thought was to ask you to be on the show with me as a co host just because I respect the shit out of you, Andrew, to be honest. And I knew that you would bring something to this conversation that that I probably can't bring because I'm not the same kind of fan. So anyway, that's for me that's why you're here. Tell me tell me tell me why you're here.
Andrew Hunt (02:16)
So I'm well, I'm here first because I respect this podcast and what it's trying to achieve as far as a message and creating a space for this type of communication to happen. So anything that I can do to help facilitate that I think is in the good of humanity and community. When it came to Hitchcock specifically, because at some of the darkest parts of my life, he was there singing.
And helping me sometimes spiral deeper into the darkness, which only music that's authentic can do. And at times also helping me spiral out of the darkness from with hope and love in his in his in his narrative, in his songwriting, in his craft. And so the opportunity being a lifelong fan and a guitarist who emulates.
Hitchcock and just appreciate so much his specific approach to creativity, you know, just from a pure fanboy, big anime eyes. Like I would anything, you know, I will I will drive 500 miles to see him in concerts. So if I could talk or be in s in digital space to pick his brain, like, yeah, that's that's amazing. The
Scott Catey (03:29)
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (03:39)
Reading of his books then, especially Stranded in the Future, just was a totally different set of appreciation for him as a human being and sharing that story. I was just super, super curious, so many questions about with not even as a fan, just like how does this work for you?
Scott Catey (03:49)
Mm.
And I think he's done that very well in both those memoirs. And so for me the vo the it was I loved reading the books, but I also loved the opportunity to talk with him, and for him to be on the show and not just talk about the books, but also his process and especially The Confuser, I think, from the tracks I've heard that he's released so far, I think it's a great record. The the last one he just released,
Andrew Hunt (04:24)
yeah.
Scott Catey (04:27)
Building from the ruins. The it slays me. I love the the funky guitar. I love the funky sound. I love the Slick or Eric Slick, the drummer on that, is it's such a laid back groove. It's such a nice groove that just rings for me. I love it. And the the lyrical world that he builds is great. So for me hearing those the new music from him.
Andrew Hunt (04:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Scott Catey (04:56)
is as rewarding as the books have been. So I'm very happy that I had this opportunity to chat with him.
Andrew Hunt (05:03)
Yeah. And I want him I want Robyn to succeed. I want I want artists like Robyn to succeed on our planet because I think that they bring more compassion to the world. And so with him r releasing these memoirs as an another
avenue to get the message out or to share the creative gifts that he has was like fantastic. It's like you don't have to be a fan to love the books. You don't have to, you know, you could you could listen to the music and never read the books and you'd be gr you're be satisfied.
Scott Catey (05:39)
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (05:40)
And vice versa. And I'm really interested now in and I'm going to, like some of my friends and relatives are deep readers, And I want to push this on them and be like, What do you think of this? It's not a heavy lift as far as it isn't a huge commitment to get through this book, but does it does it catch you like like his music caught me, you know, all those years ago? Is it i when you're n when you're just first introduced to it, does it does it ring?
I anticipate a yes. Like, no, this is a yeah, this is a good read.
Scott Catey (06:10)
I think he's captured the world. Granted, the world as he experienced it in a very specific geographic place in both books, but he's captured something that's beyond just that local sort of truth. The the world, the music world that he paints for me is just like you f
Why it stands out for me is I remember being fourteen, I don't have the kind of
exceptionally textured memory that he has of being fourteen. Like remembering the records. I can remember some, but I don't remember them in the same kind of it feels like just a woven detail. And I love that he can evoke that.
Andrew Hunt (06:55)
what I was thinking about that's interesting about Robyn Hitchcock is the simultaneous ability to for for us as the audience to relate to him and also find him an alien creature creatively. It's that balance and I found it in Stranded in the Future where
There were parts of it where it's like, yeah, this is this is reading is like this delicious narrative. And then something happens and I don't have any life experience to draw from, to relate to it.
Maybe there are dark parts of me where that I don't really want to think about or or expose that are similar in the obsessive nature of some of it or the motivations. And I think that that's sort of what are those cookies that are have white frosting on one side and are chocolate on the other, you know? And that's sort of that's how I kind of feel about about Hitchcock sometimes.
Scott Catey (07:43)
Mm, mm.
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (08:04)
But it's delicious, you know. Either w w both sides and then together they're they make they they hit that that sweet spot for me.
Scott Catey (08:06)
It is delicious.
For me, a a good book is a book that does two things. One makes me think, and two makes me reflective. And I for him, his books, I think he hit both of those for me. So it's a good read. It's a snappy read. I think he's clearly what he learned at Winchester on sort of taking in the literary tradition of English schoolboy training. He really imbibed that well. And he
Andrew Hunt (08:26)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Catey (08:44)
reproduces that well in the way that he structures the narrative. For me, this is a completely 1967 especially is a western, right? Innocent drops into this morally ambiguous town, shows them how to clean it up, and then is off into the sunset. So it's it's a test of civilization, right? So civilization being the boarding school, I don't think Hitchcock is the
His twist on it for me is he's not the gunslinger that rides in. He's the innocent observer kind of riding in with the gunslinger, and the gunslinger is Dylan. Maybe the Beatles and Dylan. But it's you're there, you're you're experiencing this
phenomenally crazy transition, transformation, metamorphosis from what you knew to what you are supposed to become, and finding your way within that and and then leaving it. And so retrospectively what he what he projects backwards for me is a making sense of that civilization, right, that he was in for those years at Winchester. So f
for me it feels very, you know, like this is a test of civilization. It's not creating civilization. Right? It's not an epic. He's not narrating an epic story. But he is telling a very specific logic of what happens to an innocent that goes through these kinds of trials. I loved it. I love that that logic kills me in a good way.
Andrew Hunt (10:22)
Yeah. I I felt in a way it starts to l le lean towards or it could trend towards like a Lord of the Flies type feel, which I think is the Western and Western say American perspective of that and kind of bringing in the Western where it has to be the gunsling and it has to be the you know, the shootout and there's that sense of justice prevailing and you know, we
Scott Catey (10:30)
Mm, mm.
Andrew Hunt (10:47)
or I should say I want to create that narrative or expect that narrative. And what I found in 67 and also Stranded in the Future is that it wasn't that's not that wasn't an accurate assumption to make. That's not how the story works. It works more like a community. It works more like a commune. And like that that that sidekick is the, you know, maybe he's the journalist or the the memoir writer who stumbles in with a gunslinger.
Scott Catey (11:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (11:14)
looking at the Dylans and the and the Sids and Pink Floyd and and Captain Beefheart and all of these like influences and is more just the just sort of the documentarian. But it isn't that they're trying to see who's the fastest draw. That's the pop charts. They're building a community about rebellion and self-exploration and commu and community of of of
Scott Catey (11:33)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Hunt (11:44)
vulnerability that he's coming out of. And that was sort of the surprise, I think, for me in the books is that in both and especially in Stranded in the Future is that it wasn't, hey, I'm a celebrity pop star and here's my story and I'm gonna justify my actions. But rather, hey, come with me. Now you get to be the, you know, I'm not the gunslinger, but but but
Scott Catey (11:59)
Mm.
Andrew Hunt (12:09)
Come with me on this path in my own Robyn Hitchcock sort of way, Yeah.
Scott Catey (12:13)
Mm-hmm. With all the darkness that's around it, right? So
his poppy voice oftentimes, I mean his not his actual voice, but the voice of his music and the the stories that he tells can often feel like there's a dark undercurrent, but it's poppy, right? Po happy cookie poppy on top of that. And that's what I get from the memoir. But I really appreciate the darkness, the depth. It's like
The undercurrent of obsession for me rings very true Like I remember being f twelve and thirteen and fourteen and eighteen and you know, getting stuck in these things that I had no business getting stuck on for as long as I did. I just didn't have the outlet to turn it into something productive, right?
Andrew Hunt (13:01)
Yeah. Or maybe you did it and it's i in in hindsight now looking back you're like, yes, I did those things, you know. I think that's that's kind of the appreciation that I have that it wasn't an A plus B equals C type story. That his writing and the narrative sort of transcends that expectation for me. And which made it
Scott Catey (13:16)
Hmm.
Andrew Hunt (13:28)
really kind of a page turner because I kept being surprised as to what what happened next, when it happened, and where he was taking us. Because it was also honest in that in the story.
Scott Catey (13:40)
Mm.
Andrew Hunt (13:42)
as opposed to someone trying to gaslight us and say, no, this is what it was like in the late sixties or this is what it was like, you know, in our fifteen walking up to our fifteen minutes of fame and as a lot of memoirs sort of want to justify. And Yeah.
Scott Catey (13:57)
it's it's terrible, isn't it? I the
I used to read a lot of memoir. Biography not so much because it's chronological and it's whatever. You're just you're not telling a story, you're just narrating a framework, essentially. Doesn't move me much. But a good memoir is
specifically, deliberately plays with with truth, right? Because you can't talk about your life in a truthful way. We all have our own personal mythology of who we are. And there's no way to convey that f factually, right? Other than a chronology and what other people say about you, but that's not a memoir. So when he you know he's out front about this is a memoir of how I felt during these
periods of time. It's like that's I if it ain't genius, it's right in the neighborhood.
Andrew Hunt (14:57)
It's a level of sincerity that I find in his music authenticity, you know. So that crossover is pretty prevalent for him. Seems to be his forward foot kind of leads with just me not apologizing.
Scott Catey (15:14)
I s so it's the I think the point is is good though, right? The the how do you how do you tell warts and all?
Andrew Hunt (15:23)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Scott Catey (15:24)
It's a hard thing and
we're never gonna I don't think any of us are able to get all the warts out, right? And he's done a he I think he's done a remarkably good job at showing us this narrative right now,
Andrew Hunt (15:30)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
ROBYN (15:38)
hello, how is everybody?
Scott Catey (15:41)
We're good. I'm good. Thank you very much for joining us, Robyn
ROBYN (15:42)
Yeah,
it's a pleasure. Did we speak for the last book?
Andrew Hunt (15:44)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (15:48)
This is our first time.
ROBYN (15:50)
jolly good.
Scott Catey (15:53)
I I just want to say, up front, huge fan of your work. I really appreciate that you are joining us today. I've loved both memoirs and I really can't wait to get a to get a chance to talk about them today. So thanks very much for for being on the Sum of All Wisdom.
ROBYN (16:01)
thank you.
well it's great to be at the sum of all wisdom, I'm really glad there is one. It's good to know where it's located.
Scott Catey (16:15)
It
it's integral and it gets bigger. Now today it's just gotten a whole lot bigger.
ROBYN (16:21)
Wow, and so close to the White House too.
Scott Catey (16:25)
well, we try not to think about these things.
ROBYN (16:27)
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (16:29)
Robyn, I've Robyn, I have to I to interject too that I'm a a longtime fan you're hugely inspirational to my songwriting and my craft and everything that I've recorded over the years.
ROBYN (16:39)
Thank you.
Scott Catey (16:40)
I think for me, your music is so unique and i illuminating.
that I this is a r it feels like a real opportunity to have you on here. This is the first time that I've had a co host. So Andrew and I been friends for fifty years. we went to grade school together and all that. But this is the first time we've worked together. So we're, you know, we're w we don't know how the back and forth is gonna go. So if we stumble, just bear with us.
ROBYN (17:00)
Wow.
okay
that's fine I'll try not to interject too much or to leave embarrassing lakes of silence if you're trying to work out how to alternate so I can and is this an audio or a video
Scott Catey (17:25)
It will be both. So on YouTube the video will post and all the other streaming services will be audio with the still video.
ROBYN (17:32)
you gods. OK,
there's YouTube. It's a good job. I had a shave yesterday. All right.
that sounds good.
Scott Catey (17:39)
three things I'd really like to do is talk a little bit about 1967 a little bit about Stranded in the Future, and a little bit about The Confuser. So if if that s seems all right with you, also your tour and I would hope, right? So let's jump into the books. You you 1967, the first book, How I Got Here and Why I Never Left.
ROBYN (17:50)
Yeah, I'm familiar with all three at the moment, yeah.
Andrew Hunt (17:55)
But then.
ROBYN (17:57)
Okay
Scott Catey (18:04)
Obviously it's about the year 1967 when you were fourteen and attending boarding school in Winchester. And I think the nutshell version is that you came of age that year, but you stopped there.
ROBYN (18:08)
Yeah.
Yes, yes the zeitgeist and I parted company on December the 31st 1967 which has been a source of frustration to some of my friends and partners ever since but 1967
it couldn't have happened without 1966 so the first third of the book is actually about my experiences in 1966 go into this
rarefied institution which is to college for the the children of the bright children of bright people who need need need money obviously but they're also the the intellectually snobbish end rather than the
socially snobbish end. So Winchester, wasn't about how wealthy you were, it was about how clever you were. So the whole hierarchy was based on that. So you come out of there thinking you're much smarter than everybody else, which is, and wiser, which is an interesting thing to have at the age of 17. So it's a strange thing to equip kids with.
Scott Catey (19:26)
Yeah.
ROBYN (19:31)
And this was the sort of pre-production for it. So I talk about my family, which was an arty family. And I talk about the suddenly being removed from it in this strange...
Victorian slash medieval institution, which is probably best known to people as, you know, Harry Potter land. And it's also the kind of mythological background that a lot of Americans think Brits inhabit. Well, I did inhabit one, which is perhaps why people have always thought of me as extra British. And
It's full of bizarre rituals, homoerotic undercurrents and just odd people. And Winchester did, especially the one I was in, encourage and tolerate eccentrics. There wasn't a drive to make people homogeneous.
The homogenous element in Winchester was to make us all feel smart, but how you got there was slightly up to you. And into this mix is then poured the music of 1966, a lot of it coming from America, some of it coming from Britain. So the day I get there, and I've never been away from my parents and friends and never had to sleep in a dormitory with other boys and all the other terrifying stuff.
to a sheltered lad like me was, you know, on came Rubber Soul by the Beatles which I'd never heard before. A few weeks later I hear Like a Rolling Stone how does it feel to be on your own? I think Dylan's singing to me. I hear Desolation Row for the first time and I am within six weeks.
Scott Catey (21:18)
Yeah.
ROBYN (21:23)
rewired by the time I'm allowed to see my family again they come to take me out for lunch and have a decent meal in a nice hotel I've been rewired I feel that my parents my parents is Bob Dylan if you like and this process goes on throughout the year
Scott Catey (21:38)
Mm.
ROBYN (21:41)
as this incredible music piles into our weird little institution, know, out comes Revolver out comes Blonde on Blonde I hear some more Dylan and Beatles and other stuff that's going on. Good Vibrations arrives just before Christmas and then bingo, it's 1967. and then we get Jimi Hendrix and the first Pink Floyd singles and Sergeant Pepper.
Meanwhile, I'm going from being a 12 year old boy, 13 year old boy, I turned 13 in March and I grow two or three inches that year and then 67 I grow five or six inches. And by the end of it, I'm almost pretty much the height I am now, but you know, three stone lighter, but I'm a skinny little version, brown haired version of me, no glasses. And I've absorbed all this music and
Scott Catey (22:28)
Yeah.
ROBYN (22:40)
I decided without consciously deciding it that I am going to do that. I am going to follow Bob and the people that follow Bob.
over the hill to Nashville or wherever it leads. The last thing I read in 67 is that Bob Dylan is recording in Nashville and he's grown an ear to ear beard. So that is basically 1967 for you, in case you haven't read it. Or if you have read it, that's what I was talking about.
Andrew Hunt (23:12)
I found was that when I was reading sixty seven after being so familiar with your music and and the lyrics, it started to put pieces of your music together for me. Like the puzzle pieces started to kind of come together because not knowing anything about you on the personal side really, you know, and then reading listening to like Raymond and the Wires talking about your dad and re and your reveal of like, yeah, your dad was injured in the war and and
it it was really c interesting f from the outside looking in to be like, I'm starting to see these the real person, the real Robyn Hitchcock actually expressing in music things that are actually happened to you.
ROBYN (23:56)
Does that take away from your enjoyment of the songs?
Andrew Hunt (24:02)
I think it enhances it. It I think it creates a personal connection. So like reading the books creates the personal connection because I get to see everything that you were going through and and experience it with you emotionally, the reveals that you have in the books. And then it just transferred that to the to the songs. And now it's like a a mystery going through your catalog and being like, Wait, is that, you know, yeah, Cynthia's mask, is that Mrs. C or you and like trying to put the pieces together of your life in the background?
It's really enlightening.
ROBYN (24:30)
Well,
I mean, that's good. That's probably one of the reasons to do the books, is to give my songs some context, if you like.
if they help frame my songs, because my life has been about writing these songs, that's effectively what I've been here for, for ill or good, that's what I did with my life. And so if it enhances them, that's great.
Scott Catey (24:49)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (25:03)
demystifies them, know, TMI, then that's not so great, obviously, but thanks. they've served their purpose in that way, yeah.
Andrew Hunt (25:13)
It it it made me wonder specifically as a songwriter then, seeing how the the books stand by them stand alone by themselves and then your music stands alone by itself and then together they make that sort of magic, you know, combination. when you go when you're approaching songwriting then, is it about is every song about a person, or is it w you know, the just a a a story that you create, or how does that connect with you as a creator
ROBYN (25:40)
a song is about itself.
I have absolutely no idea when one is about to appear. And if I'm very lucky, I get to a phone or a notebook and I write something down or I'm there with a guitar, when it comes through. And they may well be about a person. A lot of them are hybrids, as I find as I'm now writing.
memoirs but they're sort of fictionalized as well. You know they're often about a couple of people. They may be about a couple of people that trigger the same response in you or in me so I'm inclined to think that
I've actually got these feelings I want to get out and I hang them on certain people. So I wanted to be a songwriter and I hung those feelings on Ms. C, who was an elusive, difficult girl with whom I had a very unsatisfactory relationship.
But it was just that we kept each other hanging on in a way that I don't know what she did with her life, but she certainly gave me, she triggered, she was obviously the muse I was looking for or I made her into a muse, you know? And then I found other people who would have that same effect on me. And maybe that all stems back to my relationship with my mother.
I don't know or even further back into previous lives. know, you don't really know. I don't really know where this stuff comes from. And I kind of respect it more when I don't. So occasionally I have a song and I know exactly who it's about. Or I'll write a song about Seattle or something. And that's very clearly, yeah, it's a sort of humorous song about.
Andrew Hunt (27:30)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (27:43)
about a place I've spent a certain amount of time. But a lot of songs with people in, all I'm saying is that they tend to have overlays.
Scott Catey (27:53)
the thing that you just said, Robyn, that they're semi fictionalized, your memoirs. This is I so f just full disclosure kind of thing, I am a writer and a ghostwriter and I have written memoirs for folks. So this conversation around how much is truth and how much is mm, maybe reconstructed, I think is a really interesting question. I don't I don't personally like the question. I think a memory
ROBYN (28:12)
Yeah.
Ha
Scott Catey (28:19)
Excavating what we've been through in our lives and putting it into words is necessarily working through a filter. There's a metaphysics to that that I think I feel like you appreciate that in the work that you've done in these books, that you are honest about this is not just a truth or a claim to truth about my past and my life and the people that are in it. So I really I love that you are f upfront about this is not, for lack of a better word, truthy.
Right? This is this is a a recollection. But I I I'd love to hear you talk about your your what's your thinking around.
ROBYN (28:58)
What I say about that is that it's not factual, but it's true. So what I am trying to do is tell the truth about how things felt to me. So what I don't wanna do is to lie about how things felt because...
Scott Catey (29:03)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (29:17)
Ideally the reader is actually seeing through my eyes and to some degree feeling through whatever feelings I have, you know, and so that has to be accurate but exactly what happened in which sequence or if I'm talking if there's somebody there who's very like a real person but not exactly the
didn't do exactly what I said, I just changed the name. And in some cases, I've just made hybrids altogether. But a few people are sort of fictionalized, but there's usually, there's nobody who's completely not based on anything, you know. There are definitely hybrids. And also, of course, you know, some of the people, especially in in...
Stranded in the Future are still alive so they'll probably see themselves in there and go how could you say that you know but but i haven't named them so
Scott Catey (30:14)
Mm.
Right. Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (30:22)
So they have to guess if it's about them or not.
ROBYN (30:24)
I'm sure
there'll be a few people who won't like it, but I don't really know how to get around it. Unfortunately, I'm just trying to avoid actual libel. But I don't think I'll make an enemy of anyone who was a friend. Touch wood? I hope. I don't know.
Andrew Hunt (30:43)
Mm-hmm.
was interesting because you actually mentioned in Stranded in the Future of, you know, not I want to say furiously typing on your phone the text. And I was curious about the process and tech and this is something that Scott and I have talked about often is the this arc of technology that we're having to assimilate into. And you writing it on your phone or as opposed to picking up a a pen and writing
ROBYN (30:52)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (31:10)
How does that pro work for you as far as the actual creative process? Is it are you are you all aboard with the the technology or
ROBYN (31:18)
No, I
am technologically illiterate and my wife, Emma, very kindly set this up for me and equipped me with the headphones and we've even got a new laptop so I guess I've got a lot of these interviews coming up so I can, I won't be pinching her laptop. But I do use the phone a lot. I don't have the patience to...
be on top of all sorts of different media but the phone is now so small and so compact that I can sit there and write on it in the middle of the night when I wake up. Most of my writing is done between 2.30am and 6am when I often wake up and I just have a
I'm in a lake of consciousness for a while. So it's a very good time to write because I can't play any music or sing or go to the coffee shop or do anything really and I don't necessarily want to walk around so I can just go somewhere quiet by myself and write. And the phone is perfect. The other thing about the phone is that
It doesn't feel like a commitment. If I had to write on a laptop, it would feel like a typewriter and I'd be thinking, gosh, another chapter. You know, I'd feel way self-conscious. I love writing by hand and I do a lot of, I know, journaling by hand, but then you have to transcribe it. So that's a whole pain. The great thing about the phone is you just write it and...
Scott Catey (32:45)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (33:10)
Every time, as I proceed through a book, I keep reading what I've already written. So I'm revising it constantly. And, you know, some nights I don't necessarily write, but I'll just read through what I've written and go, hmm. So both books, I revised them really heavily before they got to an editor. And I don't think the editors changed very much.
Scott Catey (33:19)
Yeah.
ROBYN (33:37)
So I really recommend it because the phone is compact and also doesn't make you self-conscious. It's just like jotting down notes, but it's actually a book. So in that respect, I applaud technology. I would never have done it if I'd had to get out of bed with a typewriter or something. It would have been too noisy.
Scott Catey (33:48)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Hunt (34:01)
Yeah, and I think that was that's interesting that I I was curious about that as to not why you waited, but if there was a if there was if it was a tipping point in technology or something moving to Nashville or something to change that you're like, I'm I'm ready to write I'm ready to write these books.
ROBYN (34:19)
I think as a point as you get further on in life, to put it kindly, you do want to revisit your past. mean, Paul McCartney is full of that now. He's 11 years older than me. as you go on, it becomes all about the past. You're aware that you've...
you've become a custodian of a set of memories about a world that's vanished and a bunch of people who are going over the waterfall and will soon be no more, including yourself. You know, I'm lucky I lead the life of somebody 40 years younger than I am, you know, I'm still lurching around on stage and going out to bars and generally...
you know, keeping active. I'm a very active person. I'm lucky to have that energy. A lot of my friends are winding down or have gone already. So, but I'm still going to go, I'm going over that waterfall, you know, and I, I'm saying is that now is the time, I suppose, when you get to about 70, you just think, my God, if I've got anything to conserve and pass on,
Because there is no trace of you once you've gone, except the traces you leave. It's like the person in the prison cell, you know, writing on the wall and then they've gone and the next inmate sees what they've written, but you never see the previous inmate. All we've really got is what we leave. so I wanted to preserve that world. It's the world of 67 and then...
and then I sort of it went well and I got a taste for it and it helps with my window of consciousness but it was Emma's idea people had been saying to me for ages why don't you write a memoir and people also threatened to write books about me but my life's been way too long to put in one book so she said just pick one
Scott Catey (36:15)
Okay.
ROBYN (36:33)
one thing and I thought, gotta be 67, you my happy place. So 67 is a happier book and then 60, the new one is, you know, the exile from Eden, gliding into the 70s, you know, it's all downhill from here, et cetera, et cetera. And so this is that my first 10 years training myself to become a,
professional musician and at the end of it I just about have we're just about to get a major record deal or are we you know and yeah
Scott Catey (37:12)
You've you've called that book a dystopian self portrait, Robyn about obsession and the characters Mr. A, Mr. B and Ms. C. And I wonder, without sort of letting any cats out of any bags about the content of the book, but can you tell me about the raw materials for these for these obsessions? Where did where did they come from?
ROBYN (37:16)
Mm-hmm.
You
Well, Ms. C was, as I've said, you know, a girlfriend of mine, teenage girlfriend, and we had a rather... We
just had a frustrating, uncomfortable relationship. It was quite antagonistic. But there was obviously something to it because after we broke off, she would just reappear every so often, which really rattled me, jangled me, capsized me.
and I write about that in the book. So it was over, but was it? and I end the book at a point where you're not quite sure what's going to happen next, and that's a great place to leave it, I think. And it also sums up my state of mind, I think. I don't know what she felt. And Mr. A slash B is a, yes, a prominent...
rock musician who had a terrible breakdown and wound up becoming the kind of the opposite of what they've been before. What they were before was Mr. A and what they were afterwards was Mr. B and they appear to be completely unconnected except they inhabited the same body. those two people
became muses I suppose. I identified with Mr. AB but I also to some extent wrote about them. I if I ever identified with Ms. C but she certainly became the Other She became the you in songs when I was singing to someone. It was usually her which didn't go particularly well with the partner I had or indeed some of the ones I had afterwards.
But there, and so what I'm doing is a self-portrait because it's really showing how I mythologize these people. I used them, you know, I, they didn't, I don't suppose either of them ever, he's, Mr. AB certainly wouldn't, and I don't know if Ms. C ever knew she was in my songs or not, but they helped me create a mythological background that my songs could grow out of.
you know, because I was 15, 16, I wanted to write these fantastic songs with these kind of landscapes like Bob Dylan and others had, but it was all triggered by Dylan. I didn't want to write love songs like the Beatles. I wanted to write songs full of imagery and significance and a sort of world.
Scott Catey (40:05)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (40:20)
you know, the kind of magical, hyper real, whatever it was world that Dylan conjured. I wanted to conjure one of my own. quite, you know, it wasn't, I wasn't conscious of this, but this is what I did with those people. And, and so it's a self portrait because it's showing me basically as a delusional person, you know.
Scott Catey (40:35)
Yeah.
ROBYN (40:46)
I was in the world but I wasn't seeing it straight. was seeing it through the lenses I wanted to see it so I could make these songs. But I was kidding myself, you know, I am anything but a realist but I know enough about myself to admit that. And so it's the portrait of a young fantasist, if you like.
But it got me where I am today. I'm talking to you wearing headphones from a room in Nashville.
Scott Catey (41:18)
that crest of the annihilating wave and laughing at mortality, right? This is I think this for me, this is the great value in your work, whether it's the book or your songs, Robyn, is to give us a sense that to remind us of the sense that our our pretenses, humanity's pretenses are, you know, laughable. And if we can't take the piss out of them, so to speak, then what's the matter with us, right? Where are we going from here?
Andrew Hunt (41:22)
Yeah.
ROBYN (41:40)
Ha
Well, you're right, yeah, absolutely. I don't know if I laugh at mortality. You have to accept it. It's very difficult.
you spend your life with fostering your consciousness and you know it's going to go out like a light, know, when it's turned off and this no one has ever found a trace of departed consciousness apart from the odd psychics but I'm also inclined to believe them, you know we all do know there's more to it than meets the eye and the eye is busy looking, you know, the eye has now got out to the
what a void, obsolete ancient eyes that we've sent into space are now 25 billion miles away sending back photographs of what could be frozen food from distant galaxies. We don't know really. They might be the only traces we ever leave.
Andrew Hunt (42:35)
We're very good at taking these selfies from further and further away. So selfies from afar.
ROBYN (42:39)
Selfies from afar, yeah, that famous picture of the earth as a
sort of little pea from 20 billion miles away or something, yeah.
Andrew Hunt (42:49)
I think one of the things that I appreciated because of so I was introduced to music in the like the late eighties and in Montana as I was telling Scott, it's like we are Missoula is so it's behind. It's always like four or five years behind. So, you know, you release I often dream of train, so we don't even know it's a it's around for four or five years and and then suddenly we're all into it. It's like great. reading reading the the books and in
as a as a musician and kind of getting a feel for it is super exciting to get into Stranded in the Future because that was kind of the the part where Robyn became a celebrity for us on the outside. And to see that process was really it was really exciting and it made me want to read the next book, which is the one that the memoir that happens like the next fifteen years, you know, after that.
Is that something that you're considering? I mean, 'cause the story keeps going past the Soft Boys
ROBYN (43:54)
Yeah, I'm working on something, but it's not exactly consecutive. So I'm not gonna go from 1978. I think I'm actually starting in 82. I'm not really interested. These books aren't journals. They're stories. And so I have to include and exclude whatever makes them work as a narrative.
Andrew Hunt (44:13)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (44:24)
The idea is that they're a good read whether you know my stuff or not. And that's an interesting thing, looking at the reviews, people say, you know, will suit his fans and may make sense to other people as well. You know, and I'm trying to make sense to other people. I'm not trying to preach yet again to the lovely compact body of people who...
buy everything I do and have managed to keep me afloat somehow over the last 40 years. I I want it to work. I want the books to work for people who read. I don't really, I don't expect it to bring them into my music, but I do want the stories to work.
So I am going to construct some kind of narrative that will involve the 1980s, but it's not necessarily going to be about all the things people are expecting me to write about. I'm not necessarily going to write about my famous friends or being on MTV or that kind of, or, you know, going to a radio station that you used to work at or one of your friends worked at. I'm probably going to pick on things that most people don't necessarily
know about. Again to give context so people can go right okay that's where he was that's where he wrote those songs or that those are those people he knew that we never knew about you know sort of more background if you like
rather than the yeah now he's in my life well hey i remember this i saw you there i saw you you know whatever earth day in 1992 yeah well it's okay i won't be writing about that
Andrew Hunt (46:08)
Right.
No no, You have to write about all those concerts that I saw you in, you know, and yeah,
ROBYN (46:21)
The thing is you can write those because again, then it's part of your mythology.
your experience of it is going to be much more interesting than mine. Mine will just be, I went on stage. I can never actually remember any of my...
performances because the adrenaline erases them. So if it's been good, I feel buzzed up the next day. I, until I go back on stage again, I can never remember what it's like to be on stage. It's a sort of selective schizophrenia or something. don't, I have no sense of huh being Robyn the,
person standing up with the guitars until that ghastly moment appears and then god of course this is you know that's what I do sometimes
Andrew Hunt (47:11)
Right.
was talking when Scott and I were talking earlier, before you got on and and I was musing about the gems of the conversation that you have with the audience between songs and the banter. And and I'll th and I f it felt somewhat like
ROBYN (47:25)
yeah.
Andrew Hunt (47:32)
the narrative, the voice that I hear in my head when I was reading your books sounded a little bit like that. It sounded like that sort of banter that's that's grounded and attached in the present and yet also some somewhere else. And it was something that I guess I appreciated about the language that you use when you write.
ROBYN (47:36)
Uh-huh.
Well, I like words. me, I was using words long before I used music. So my first language is words. And I like talking between songs. Again, I have no memory of what I say and I don't like...
doing the same verbal riffs for too long because it just doesn't interest me. So the more I can improvise the better because I can't really improvise much in the songs, they're fairly set. So my chance to be spontaneous is in the verbals between the songs.
And writing, obviously, I guess I've got the same voice when I write as when I speak. So I'm glad you I'm glad that I'm glad it ties in, you know, it's not like it's not like they're coming from different sub personalities. mean, sometimes I'll invoke sub personalities on stage and, you know, do funny voices and stuff. But the. The way my it's all the same mind, you know, it's just it's me without the music.
Scott Catey (49:04)
We do have a there's an imperative now.
compartmentalize and to at the same time bring your authentic self to things, right? So I think I f for me, I think you seem authentic in everything you do, your music, interviews like this, the books. The rest of us are kind of, I don't know, bought into this other thing of I'm me in one circumstance and I'm a different me in another circumstance.
ROBYN (49:33)
think I'm a different me in different circumstances. I mean, I don't I don't think I'm that consistent. I'm quite a compartmentalized person and I and I'm very good at. Certainly when I'm covering songs, I often channel. You know, if I sing a John Lennon song, I'm channeling John Lennon, I'm not interpreting it. I.
I think of myself as a not particularly integrated person. My father was very much not integrated. He had different personae which would overtake him at different times. I like to think I can see all of them and I can see into my different moods. I mean, you know, each of us has a body and a name and a, you know, the starting...
clock starts and the clock stops and you have this journey but each of us seems to contain an awful lot of different characters. If I seem consistent then thank you. I really appreciate that. I feel like a whole bunch of guys so I don't know. Do you feel like a bunch of people? You do.
Scott Catey (50:55)
I do.
I do.
ROBYN (50:57)
Do you think that's according to what mood you're in, what time of day?
Scott Catey (51:02)
If I can be honest, I think it has a lot to do with who I'm around.
ROBYN (51:07)
okay. Well, that's another thing. I mean, I think of myself as a mirror, like I make angry people angrier, angrier, I make nice people nicer. But maybe we're all that a bit, you know, maybe we reflect each other more than we think. So, yeah, but people, people will bring out different things in you, won't they, I guess.
Scott Catey (51:12)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Can I tell you a story, Robyn?
ROBYN (51:30)
do, yeah.
Scott Catey (51:32)
I was working in a record store when I first came across I Often Dream of Trains And we had in Missoula, in Montana, yeah. Nineteen I think I actually f was working there eighty five fr after eighty five. So as Andrew said, it was a little late for the record to actually break.
ROBYN (51:37)
Where was that?
All right, yeah.
were both in, you were both in Missoula? Is that how you, is right, you were, you were at college together, you were at something together.
Scott Catey (51:54)
That's right. Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (51:54)
At that point, yeah.
we met in seventy six grade
school when we were like eight years old, out in this little little school out in rural Montana.
ROBYN (52:08)
right, okay. all right, wow. So Andrew, you're still there and Scott, you've migrated to DC. Whoa.
Scott Catey (52:16)
I've migrated to DC. Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (52:17)
I lived in Seattle
for I lived in Seattle for a good sp spot and Pittsburgh and Anchorage, Alaska. So I did I got out and then came back to raise family.
ROBYN (52:27)
wow okay sorry okay so back thanks for the context I hadn't fully grasped that so you're you're Scott yeah you were in a record store in Missoula
Scott Catey (52:38)
store. I discover I often dream of trains. We had, you know, listening stations in the record store back in the good old days. And so I I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl slayed me. The the tinkling keys in that song were just I couldn't get enough of that. And that that that stays in my brain. I hear that sound so often when I hear music that really resonates with me. So I come back to that frequently.
ROBYN (52:43)
Yeah.
yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. Oh really? Wow.
Scott Catey (53:06)
But what I really wanted to say about that record was I was heavy into barbershop quartet. I was a chorister in school and I was in a barbershop quartet. And Uncorrected Personality Traits to me is a barbershop song. When I first heard it, I was like, we gotta be on our little hats and our vests down in the corner singing this as a barbershop song. And so I I arranged it for I was in a quartet at the time and I arranged it so we could sing it. It didn't go over well with my
ROBYN (53:16)
right, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, yeah that I... wow, yeah.
Scott Catey (53:35)
colleagues. But I this is one of my favorite memories. So my personal mythology is singing Uncorrected Personality Traits in a barbershop quartet in Missoula, Montana. And much of my life has come out of that.
ROBYN (53:37)
No idea.
wow.
Andrew Hunt (53:52)
Ha ha ha.
ROBYN (53:52)
I'm glad it got that far. It's obviously done some good. Thank you.
Andrew Hunt (53:58)
my sister Heather and I will spontaneously break into that song when we s when we're we're hanging out, we have nothing to do. She's she lives here in town too. And it's yeah, it's odd that we both still remember all the lyrics and just dive into that song.
ROBYN (54:12)
Well,
it's one of those, guess once you've absorbed it, they probably stay. Actually, yes, my sisters are both quite fond of that one.
It's difficult because it can also be really kind of taken the wrong way now, so I'm a bit more edgy about it. It's not an anti-trans song at all, nor is it an anti-gay song. It's a celebration in a way of what is regarded as deviant or was regarded as deviant. I mean, was definitely thinking along those lines at that time. I mean, didn't do anything like...
anything surgical but I was definitely interested in the whole idea of just crossing the gender boundary you know so I had songs like Egyptian Cream and stuff that was in there. Late 20s yeah.
Scott Catey (55:05)
It's a moment a a moment in let's call it musical history. You know, Bowie did that very, very publicly, and it always felt to me like you were on that same transgression, right? That same path to to wanting to transgress, to to to get underneath what's quote unquote normal and to say something else about it.
ROBYN (55:27)
definitely, definitely. It's harder to do that when you're older, really. But, you know, when you're young and beautiful, it's a good time to press the androgyny button or see what it's like to be, you know, be the Other it depends how far you take it really and whether it's a pose or whether it's...
you genuinely want to know. the thing is that it gets to your imagination and that's what's important. And from that, many songs can spring or books or pictures or whatever. just, I suppose you contain what you're not in some ways and it's tempting to unleash it from time to time.
Andrew Hunt (56:14)
I was curious about
as a song as a craftsman of the art of of songwriting and mental health because I'm a songwriter and record and perform and do all this stuff, and when I get to a certain point of if I'm depressed, sometimes the guitar and writing helps and
Sometime when I'm joyous, sometimes the guitar and writing exaggerates. How do you how does that the the the workaday bit of being a musician and mental health for you, do those things connect? Is it an integral part of it or does it help?
ROBYN (56:51)
yes, I mean I think any kind of art, creating anything is better for my mental health. The only way I maintain it is by constantly churning out words, pictures, music. The only thing I'm any good at is creation, is art. Everything else baffles me. Computers, I can't drive.
I did drive but I was not a very good driver. Tax returns, plumbing, sport, all the ways that men relate to each other apart from music of course. it...
And it always saddens me when I hear about musicians who've just given up and they don't play anymore. Because I just think it's better for your Soul. Not everyone is going to be a professional musician, just playing music for the hell of it, or you know, on the side, it's just good, you know. I always think you're more likely to, you know, irrigate your Soul.
So I'm all for it, really.
Andrew Hunt (58:04)
And very prolific. I'm listening to the new tracks off The Confuser and like My Dead Astronaut to me was there was some really strong like Soft Boy vibes coming in there. But as and it's a kind of a two part question because I'm I'm curious about the influence of Nashville on your music because it sounds different. the production, the instrumentation in the last few albums, it sounds
Like a departure in a way. Or an arrival, I guess, maybe.
ROBYN (58:35)
Thank you. Well, it's the most realized record I've done for a long time possibly ever simply in terms of The way it's turned out. I hear it and I think my god this sounds so professional and grown up
and yet it's me but not in a way that the stuff I did with the Egyptians wound up sounding very Slick but I felt that I was a little bit varnished and I was getting lost in a sea of other people's overdubs. I mean it's the same template that I had back in the Soft Boys and of course the Soft Boys didn't invent it you know it comes from
probably Buddy Holly via The Beatles and The Velvet Underground and Captain Beefheart, know, two guitars, bass and drums, all the different configurations, the way they used that template. And there's a huge difference between The Beatles and Beefheart and the Magic Band, but they were both two guitars, bass and drums and a lead vocal.
but I've been doing it off and on for years I've just made a real point of doing it again now really pressing that button but again I have Emma to thank because she steered me towards making a record in Nashville and we we we'd met Eric Slick the drummer he played a track on my
by post on the previous record I'd done when it was locked down. So you had to send stuff off to people. so Emma got got to got us to meet up with Eric and Eric brought in Todd Bolden, who's a terrific bass player. You know, he speaks McCartney deeply and Jeremy Fetzer does our artwork, but he's also a terrific
guitarist he's in a two instrumental band Steelism and Time is Tight which is a Booker T tribute band so Jeremy's a very good sort of Steve Cropper you know he's a very concise telecaster player which I love I'm a slightly less concise telecaster player but I love that sound so we got a really good band and
The overall feel of the record is it's probably the best rock record I've made, certainly under my own name. I mean, everybody loves Underwater Moonlight and that sort of, that's a pinnacle all of its own, but that was the Soft Boys. It wasn't just me. And this is a group of people too, but I'm very, it's very much, you know.
I'm the face of it and I'm the mind behind it. I think The Confuser is a terrific record and I think it's also quite enjoyable given what the subject matter is.
Scott Catey (1:01:45)
Nashville has a pretty high per capita of guitar players. How do you what's your process for identifying who's the one to play with?
ROBYN (1:01:52)
Which fruit do I pick from the tree? People who want to do it but get it. There was one guy who was really good but...
Scott Catey (1:01:54)
Exactly.
ROBYN (1:02:04)
he said he wanted to do it but he just couldn't get to play any of my riffs he said I don't understand it your stuff is counterintuitive which I took as a tremendous compliment and you know he's he is no slouch as a guitarist he's really good but what I played makes no sense to him he can't he just couldn't learn it so I find people who want to do it and can do it the other thing I think and it's fairly obvious is just that I don't work with anybody
Andrew Hunt (1:02:14)
yes.
Scott Catey (1:02:15)
Right.
ROBYN (1:02:33)
who doesn't love the Beatles. you know, live we've been, I think the last show we did, And Your Bird Can Sing and She's So Heavy as the encores. Todd is indeed, you know, speaks McCartney, but also can work out all the chords from the songs by John and George. And both...
Both Eric Slick and Pat Berkery, who is our other drummer, are deep Beatles nerds, know? And Fetzer, goes without saying, you he's got all the different pressings of Revolver in his studio.
Scott Catey (1:03:18)
I have a fantasy, Robyn. A fantasy, a dream team, if you will, of Nashville artists who should come together and it's basically you and Bobby Bare Jr.
ROBYN (1:03:28)
well, you can see me and Bobby Bare Jr. quite often in various bars, you know. I hang out with Bobby a lot. I don't think we've ever actually played a note of music, we, but we're, he's fun, you know him.
Scott Catey (1:03:47)
I I know his d I grew up with his dad. His dad is a hardcore favorite of mine. This is where I learned this is where I learned absurdest music was from Bobby Bare Senior. I mean he's he was phenomenal for me. And when Bare Jr was singing with him on Daddy What If in seventy three or whatever it was, and then twenty years later I was playing him on the radio. It was he he's remarkable. I really like him. I don't know him personally. I would love to. But I would love to hear the two of you play together.
ROBYN (1:04:03)
yeah.
he's a very...
He's... Well, I think he's producing a record by Charles Francis, you know, the Pixies. We've talked about me coming in and overdubbing it, but...
Scott Catey (1:04:28)
Mm.
ROBYN (1:04:33)
No, Bobby, I hope I will see him sometime in the next couple of weeks, actually. You haven't met him? Well, I'll tell him you're a big fan, and I'm sure he would talk to you if you want the sum of his wisdom. He knows a lot of people in Nashville.
Scott Catey (1:04:44)
Not yet, no.
He's a I he just strikes me as an amazing musician among amazing musicians, right? He stands out for me so.
ROBYN (1:05:03)
Well, think like you said, because of his dad, know, he's very connected to Nashville history. And if I go out with him, he'll sort of just point people out and say, you know, he knows who everybody is. He's just seen, he's a very kind of connected guy, but he also just has, he's got a sort of genial countenance. He always seems to be pleased to see you, you know. And...
Scott Catey (1:05:07)
Mm. Mm.
ROBYN (1:05:30)
No, I love Bobby. He's one of the many boons of being in this town. And it is, you know, it's Music City and I really appreciate that there's a place for me here, being this kid who came from Winchester, from, you know, I'm a renegade academic. I mean, I think all the great rock and roll is made by deviants so I'd like to think I fit into that.
into that category, you know. And, but you know, to be respected, be just to have these great guys say, yeah, I'll come and play on your session is an incredible compliment. It makes me feel like I've succeeded.
Scott Catey (1:05:58)
Yeah.
Tell us about your your your polka dot Tubby telly, I think you call it.
ROBYN (1:06:23)
The tubby caster. tubby caster is here.
Scott Catey (1:06:25)
Yeah.
And Kelly Stoltz, I think, designed that for you.
ROBYN (1:06:34)
yeah there
it is it's a bit refl... hey folks hey posterity here's the tubby caster it's it's named after after our cat tubby who is lurking somewhere around here yeah kelly do know kelly you know kelly stoltz
Scott Catey (1:06:38)
That's a nice looking guitar.
Andrew Hunt (1:06:39)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (1:06:53)
Yeah, from a long time ago.
ROBYN (1:06:57)
Yes, Kelly's band was backing me up for a while on the West Coast, but it seemed to make more sense to have a Nashville one. But I love working with Kelly and I will undoubtedly do so again. His wife, Ali Baker, is a Beefheart freak and put her, she's a great telecaster player, so she's fun.
Scott Catey (1:07:04)
Mm-hmm.
a hell of a slide player too.
ROBYN (1:07:22)
They're a great couple and Kelly knows a slew of interesting people in San Francisco. know, Kelly's, he's also, I call him the Englishman of the group. He's very good at going into various Northern accents, much better than I am. He was in the Bunnymen for a while. Anyway, he just made me this polka dot.
Strat, you know, which is really sweet because it also weighs much less than the one I had for years and so I can It's just easier to stand up on stage and wave it around. You know, takes takes less of a toll on my my used vertebrae so No, I That I think I used the tubby caster for the whole of the last tour
Scott Catey (1:07:55)
Mm.
Andrew Hunt (1:08:15)
Looking forward to the rest of the Confuser because I signed up for the advanced bits on Bandcamp and you mentioned Wasted, is that and I don't think that song has been released just yet.
ROBYN (1:08:27)
you've only heard the... what have you heard?
Andrew Hunt (1:08:29)
yeah, the first four
ROBYN (1:08:30)
I think they're all the rocking tracks. We've got one more kind of rocking track and then I mean, there's there's a couple of much slower songs, sort of love songs or laments. then there's Wasted at the end. It's a sort of almost like a music hall song. But it's on the whole, it's a pretty snappy record.
It doesn't stay down for too long, know, when the pace drops it comes back up again.
Andrew Hunt (1:09:05)
And I apologize for saying that my dead astronauts sounded like the Soft Boys maybe it's more me reminiscing about being exposed to that music and the excitement of it. It felt like it felt like a band.
ROBYN (1:09:16)
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (1:09:20)
feel. Sometimes your music it feels like it's Robyn and sometimes it feels like it's a ensemble. And I think maybe there was something about that that was reminiscent to that sort of ensemble feeling of of some of your different work.
ROBYN (1:09:36)
think that's the joy of Nashville. You can play with people for a couple of hours and it sounds like you've been together for six months. And I don't think you can do that. You can do that in Britain. I don't know if you can even do it in LA, but you can do it here. Todd, so Eric Slick had worked with Todd on the bass. They were a sort of team.
I think they knew Fetzer, but I don't know if they played with him, after two hours they did. And they're all born under the sign of Taurus, the Nashville Bulls, but calling them that would make them sound like a baseball team or something. But they are all a bunch of Taurians, all born around the time I was recording Globe of Frogs. The whole...
Andrew Hunt (1:10:21)
Yeah.
ROBYN (1:10:33)
band is, you know, was pretty much their age when they were born. So it's good. like, think, you know, old people make each other look older. I like feeding, I like feeding on young blood, as it were, you know, with the best intentions. But I think it, and it definitely kicks me up the ass, you know, I like that. I just like that.
Andrew Hunt (1:10:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (1:11:01)
get up and go. And I'm more likely to do that if I've got some peppy, peppy youngsters, you know, in their late thirties. I mean, that's young now to me, the infants on the scale of life, but you know, I suspect that you're born with whatever wisdom you have. So I don't know whether they're necessarily any more infant, you know, any younger than me.
Andrew Hunt (1:11:03)
Yeah.
Those are in infants in the scale of life, right?
ROBYN (1:11:29)
I mean, I imagine I think their wisdom quote is probably quite high, actually. But they're all also very funny when they when they get to speak. They're a good crew. They're great, great people to be with. We have a very good team and Rick and Pat who come in, Berkery from Philly and Rick, who's just moved down here, Lola, who I'm sure you will hear more of, who's Em's guitarist. They're all it's an
Scott Catey (1:11:55)
Mm.
ROBYN (1:11:58)
know, we've been traveling around in vans and stuff and Emma's been opening and tour managing and running. You know, Emma is the psychic glue of the whole thing. I would not have, as they say, got it together without her. So and of course, she's now the record label. But we are on Akashic publishing house,
and Stranded in the Future is out July 7th Ringo Starr's birthday
Andrew Hunt (1:12:26)
Yes.
ROBYN (1:12:27)
the Confuser is coming out technically on July 24th although I think it's in the stores late August But I think the whole thing will be available to stream and to buy and you know people have pre-bought CDs and stuff and
so I have you know I'm dropping two babies this this month it's it's a big one
Scott Catey (1:12:55)
this might be an impossible question, Robyn. I know we're we've gone a little longer than an hour. I appreciate you staying with us. But I I wonder if you could tell us which of your songs do you relate to the most emotionally? I I have, for instance, New York Doll in mind, for a couple of reasons. On the one hand, I think it's just a very moving song about an important figure, Arthur Kane, but it's also heartbreaking in the sense that
It's about dealing with fame and dealing with the costs of being in the music industry. So for me that feels like a very in its way raw song. And the lyric, Sincerely I Remain, Arthur Kane, I think, works for that song very well. But I don't think you can quite say the same thing about another character like S like Sid Barrett, for instance. And and I wonder how you how you come to those and how you relate to those.
ROBYN (1:13:32)
thank you.
Scott Catey (1:13:51)
As as the songs age with you.
ROBYN (1:13:54)
how do i relate to to you mean to that song or to my songs of mine huh i'm i don't really
Scott Catey (1:13:59)
To your favorite songs, let me put it that way, of yours.
ROBYN (1:14:11)
I'm not really moved by my own songs. I very seldom feel myself tearing up like I might when I sing somebody else's, you know, a great song by someone else. doesn't doesn't get me here. I'm.
I wish it did and I would that's the thing I'd most like to achieve in a in a song apart from you know to make people laugh and cry in the same song like Dylan does with Visions of Johanna but I I sometimes find myself occasionally I'll sing one of mine and I'll think actually this is really good this should be in my top five and then I forget
what it is and I it's kind of elusive occasionally there's a song called Sometimes a Blonde on Spooked which I think is quite emotional but it doesn't always get to me I'm probably not the best person to to talk about what my songs
the feelings they generate. I think they generate different feelings in the listener to how I feel when I sing them. What you're describing is how I want people to feel, but I don't necessarily feel it. I suspect it's in the melody anyway. The New York Doll has got a, I really like the melody. It's a sort of faux Irish type tune.
The way it rises and falls is that style of emotional songwriting. Airscape is a good one as well, but I've sung it so many times I don't feel anything when I sing it. I simply sing it and hope that the audience feels it. I'm glad they've lasted.
If nothing else, I like to think that stuff I've made up 40 years ago or more still works for me to sing and for the listener to hear, you And I hope the same applies to the books in time in the Future.
Scott Catey (1:16:24)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Hunt (1:16:35)
I think the books stand on their own outside of the music, you know. And I'm totally biased because I'm such a fan of the music, but then reading them, it was definitely like page turner and I was telling Scott, as soon as I finished Stranded in the Future, I went back and I reread the first chapter. And it it all started to it actually made it completed the loop and kind of it was like, I
I learned so much by rereading the first chapter after finishing the last page. It was really
ROBYN (1:17:06)
He
went back to read the first chapter again. Made more sense.
Andrew Hunt (1:17:08)
Yeah. It's sort of like
Scott Catey (1:17:10)
Yeah.
Andrew Hunt (1:17:10)
a Christopher Nolan movie or something where you're like, I vis get it now, I see it's it's differently.
ROBYN (1:17:16)
it's good if it makes you want to read it. That's the real thing with writing. mean, that's the same goes for songs, but books are longer. So you've got to you've got to lure people into your world and then narrate it in such a fashion that they they want to find out what's happening next. And I, you know, I've started another one, but I don't know if it's will have the right momentum.
Andrew Hunt (1:17:19)
Mm-hmm.
ROBYN (1:17:41)
and I've been talking about it a bit, possibly a bit too much. I don't know if, you know, I generally didn't, I didn't mention Stranded in the Future until I'd finished it. but you know, I do have that window of consciousness in the middle of the night, so I'm bound to write something, but you know, it may shape shift.
it may suddenly lurch forward 25 years or move into a parallel dimension. And if it does, I have to just make that work.
as a narrative so they go yeah well of course it makes absolute sense he was coming back from Norway and then he was he was sent into an underground tunnel which took him to the planet Thrang which is very similar to ours except people can only reproduce by walking through mirrors it's very nice you see someone who looks like you but they turn out to be someone else but it's much it's less of a threat especially if you're autistic which most people are now you know so and then okay
Andrew Hunt (1:18:36)
Yeah.
ROBYN (1:18:48)
I've to make that blend in and then we'll see see where it goes.
Scott Catey (1:18:55)
I think that feels like truth to me.
ROBYN (1:18:57)
Well, see, that's just, you're too kind. So tell me, where's a good place to, if I ever get to Montana, where's a good place to play? In Missoula, is there a venue?
Andrew Hunt (1:19:09)
Missoula. you would do well. There's some big
there's definitely bigger venues here that you could sell you could you could d draw a pretty good crowd, I would say.
ROBYN (1:19:22)
Okay, well I'll ask my agent because I'm looking for places to play I haven't played before and there aren't very many so but I will be on the I will be on the trail next year we'll be looking for things to to do I'm really enjoying it well you know and just that while I can still do it
Andrew Hunt (1:19:42)
Yeah.
ROBYN (1:19:42)
I think I've got to head off and because more things will be coming down the wire.
okay I should make with Splitsville and let's see each other in the Future
Scott Catey (1:19:54)
A wonderful conversation with Robin Hitchcock here on the Sum of All Wisdom. Once again, my very deep thanks to Robin for joining us, and thanks to you too. We really appreciate you turning us on. If this conversation resonated with you, please consider sharing it with others. If it provoked you, please let us know that too. You can comment or DM or email me with your thoughts. I'm Dr. Scott Catey writer, producer, and host of the Sum of All Wisdom, and the show is released by Ravenna Studios. Join us again next week for my conversation with Butch Norton.
An exceptional drummer and percussionist, formerly of the Eels, and all kinds of other stuff. he's got loads of wisdom to share, so I hope to see you there.