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Each week Adam & Ste focus on a specific feature, idea or prototype in Hardcover and iterate on it together or with guests.
ste (00:01.533)
morning
adam (00:01.78)
hey hey
hey i'm adam
ste (00:07.113)
i'm there
adam (00:07.42)
and this is how are you doing today
ste (00:12.113)
i'm good i'm good happy to be here on her cover streaming number five is it or four
adam (00:20.74)
i think so i think it's i think it's the fifth time but i think the first one didn't record so technically four
ste (00:28.013)
okay yeah let's put in for that was more of a child
adam (00:30.36)
it was a it was a good practice i feel like most any time anyone does like a live show where they start numbering the first one is always just scraped and i feel like we've just been keeping up tradition
ste (00:44.193)
yeah exactly it's the pilot although we haven't heard
adam (00:46.82)
exactly
yeah
ste (00:49.833)
nice
how are things
adam (00:52.62)
what a pretty good just been well pretty annoying but good i've been trying to figure out the is subscription stuff for the apt and i have have some leads on it so the problem is that so we needed to implement native subscriptions in the is before it's approved for the astor
we have it all working locally like you know stay you designed the them like the model for for the upgrade and eugene implemented it looks great and i've been like i implemented it and got it working locally with ex code where it's like um using a sandbox account an apple developer to be able to actually sign up for a subscription you know it's you see like the native message from apple saying like do you want to subscribe and you have to like double click on the side button and all that
but as soon as i build the app to release it to production for some reason it's not packaging in cordova which is the job of script libraries and objective c libraries that we need to be able to interact with like apples native stuff from our react code so i've been like just googling and trying everything i
to figure out like why is this not loading cordova and i have a couple leads that i'm going to try today but i'm crossing my fingers one of them works because it's a definitely been frustrating problem
ste (02:35.473)
well yeah i bet yeah it was a tough one i mean final stretch but yeah this one seemed like a pretty you know hard not to crack yeah well hopefully after this is i mean after this is getting done the ap is out there so that's the good news
adam (02:56.66)
yeah
it's also like one of the few like technical areas where we don't really have anyone on the team who's like an expert in is development so it's kind of like we're all just kind of trying to figure things out but at least you know once we do it will be easier
ste (03:16.373)
true although i think even like experts with our set up might you know run into trouble it's very basically i guess cut in gude maybe that's like why there isn't like really like straight for a solution to solve that i mean yeah seems like a problem that most people who like had to set up where they use that to publish now
the is where the use cordova they should have run into this thing yeah and is want let us publish without this important part but yeah as soon as that's done yeah let's hope for that one of the solutions fixes it
adam (04:06.74)
yeah hopefully if not i have a few friends that know some is development so i might start like pinging them like hey i could really use your help you have a couple minutes
ste (04:19.253)
yeah definitely that would be good well i'll get solved eventually like all the problems how do yousually do but i'm curious how what's your i mean i've heard like so many like strategies from like talking to a rubber duck that you keep near your desk top trying to explain your problem to it to do know just like console logging everything what's your like go though
adam (04:20.54)
no
adam (04:24.7)
yeah
yeah
adam (04:50.58)
um
ste (04:50.593)
like approach
adam (04:53.84)
i think i think it depends on what language i'm in to lie because when i'm in ruby my approach is usually like test driven development where i'm like defining the inner faces for how the different classes and moduales are working together and basically doing it from t d d standpoint where i'm making it fail and then making the test pass but for java script and like is i feel like i haven't like formed that yet so it's a lot of i think i lean on law
getting a lot for for this one i got it you know since it's working locally but it's not working when i likeupload the actual one to apple what i ended up doing was if you have a hard cover user on production with a user name that ends in test you'll get additional logging through like alert so but it's only only for the check out process so check up
ste (05:49.373)
hey
adam (05:53.8)
this doesn't even work but if you try it on the bata app that's only in test flight on production with a with a useramnding a test you're goin to get a lot of alert
ste (06:05.873)
okay go check well that's yeah i wouldn't have guessed that but sounds goodyeahnice
adam (06:10.5)
uh
adam (06:14.2)
but do you do you have a strategy for how you approach things when you when you get stuck
ste (06:20.533)
oh well in code i like really a rook so i don't know i just everything goes and my strategy is going to adam or eugene so basically a very good strategy from my point of view yeah and then design you know that's usually not the case so yeah like you mean i guess
adam (06:37.1)
m m
adam (06:46.76)
and you seem to be really good at like when you get stuck on design it would be like that means it's time to get feed back and you know time to ask questions
ste (06:56.133)
yeah yeah well actually that's a good point yeah i mean i guess that's de bugging in design when you actually get stuck yeah i do all sorts of stuff i mean for design is like getting stuck on not like really getting stuck on like you're writing a book and you're stuck where you're writing boath and you're stuck but when i can see something i just like take a walk or just paused for a minute or like do some exercise that usually helps
like reframing the thing of course it's very different from development but that works and getting feedback getting a second set of eyes especially from someone who isn't a designer and uh or from a designer with a very different approach usually helps
adam (07:34.66)
m
adam (07:49.16)
i could see that
ste (07:50.513)
yeah i guess that's the bugging in design yeah has been really yeah
adam (07:53.undefined)
m one o one
one other thing i do lately is i do like a pommadoro set up where i have like a thirty minute hour glass and a five minute hour glass so i do like thirty minutes or twenty five minutes on five minutes off just at least when i'm like working solo not in a meeting and usually i've been lately ive been using that as an opportunity to pretty much just refill my tea
ste (08:03.973)
okay go
adam (08:28.54)
and i've been like i've always been a coffee drinker but lately i've been drinking tea so that's like basically a cup of tea every half hour for a coupe hours
ste (08:35.553)
okay
ste (08:39.593)
well okay that's a lot of tea but i appreciate the pander i mean it's you really like went all all the way and made it like into a physical thing you have two hour glasses that's cool
adam (08:51.82)
ah the only problem is sometimes i don't see that it's it's like drained until i like if i'm really in the flow of something i won't notice it and then i'll realize it so it's it's twenty five minutes is not twenty five minutes exactly
ste (09:01.933)
uh
ste (09:10.413)
okay that's still good i mean that's the problem ipolemthough usually like don't like stick to like that timing actually tried it once but i just ditched it after like i think a couple of months where i got em to a like forty minute twenty minutes break uh system but still yeah but that's good that's good maybe if i could get like physical hour glasses
adam (09:33.16)
m
m
adam (09:39.8)
yeah i got these for christmas and i'm enjoying them so far
ste (09:44.373)
that's nice great
adam (09:48.98)
let's see there is anything specific you are thinking about chatting today i had one thing in mind but curious what you had
ste (09:56.793)
okay yeah i mean i didn't have anything planned and a lot of tuff has been going on with her cover since we got a new flux of about two hundred fifty users recently and lots of very very very good feedback that we're considering to implement so yeah maybe we can touch on that or maybe i can tie it in with whatever you have planned because it might be on the same same page but
adam (10:25.86)
yeah
ste (10:26.733)
yeah just wanted to mention that it's like exciting times on high covered the first signs of a really getting significant adoption because of a series of really random events that have been going on which i hopefully hope like they will like go on and happen more from now but yeah that's cool
adam (10:36.06)
m
adam (10:52.4)
yeah yeah it was it was neat seeing like a first hundred sign up day of hard cover it was excitingi think
ste (11:00.793)
yeah yeah exactly and you know for many platforms it might not mean much but for us it means a lot and i think it's growing at a steady pace where we can do things the readers on high cover are actually asking for in a way that you know doesn't clog up the whole system the whole feed and doesn't like crash our servers so all hell
adam (11:29.68)
yeah
ste (11:30.793)
on that front i guess
adam (11:32.72)
yeah i think my last the last project i was doing minifylikethe financial blog and investing site i think it peaked at maybe like five user registration to day and heard cover has been etting like ten a day now so it's it's interesting to see like this is the the most successful project i've ever worked on that wasn't like employed by someone else i mean that's exciting
ste (12:00.753)
well that's that's yeah that's great and you know just wait until we get you know regular one hundred per day days or one thousand per day days or a thousand per day days
adam (12:02.4)
yeah
adam (12:10.34)
yeah
adam (12:15.3)
yeah and
ste (12:17.293)
it will happen at some point
adam (12:20.12)
and i think one of the ways where we're going to get there is by continuing to just focused on working on what people are asking for and i think speaking of that what i was thinking we could chat about today which is very tendentially to related to the book button that we've been talking about is progress tracking like track tracking like i've i've started reading this book and now you know i come back tomorrow
ste (12:30.753)
yes
ste (12:43.393)
m
adam (12:50.22)
done with the book but i want to update i want to update my progress on that book and say something
ste (12:56.813)
yeah i love that topic so
adam (12:59.undefined)
yeah have have you explored that at all and fig so far
ste (13:03.373)
yeah we can actually look over the designs for like the initial really rough rough version of that and maybe we can yeah start developing actually talking talking on it so let me just share my screen here real quick and let's go to figuma this is the book tracking
we're trying to implement but further down
tell them okay so
adam (13:44.04)
oh yeah yeah right right i remember this now
ste (13:46.973)
yeah here we go this is it so with book progress it's really interesting because readers really have like different habits for how they read some like to plate their progress after they put down the book some like to have apse which
time they're reading sex sessions much like odor like i'm going to read for twenty five minutes now i just start the time and when the timer stops i stop reading so that's like one possibility other readers like taking notes while they're reading so that's a big thing to them actually you know having this met reading where they can easily add notes on their reading
ah that's i guess one of the uh popular habits h and there are also people who don't like track reading at all just say that they began reading a book or they don't and just mark that book as read so i guess all of these cases would need to be covered in a way that
we take what you know the average experience for the average reader i guess and offer as much as possible to yeah cover all of those cases so i guess that's what we've been trying to do the thing with book tracking read tracking apse is that they do few do this you know
that is easy enough for people to actually like have your app by your side while you're reading i mean because that's face it usually it's not like something you want to do unless it's like really really really easy and fun so we're trying to do both of those things right so making it easy and fun and
adam (16:12.04)
yeah
adam (16:15.92)
yeah and
ste (16:18.093)
yeah started from these designs
adam (16:21.78)
i'm remembering this now and i'm trying to remember like where were we thinking so far on like ways to get to this um was it like through the like in the book status button like when it says like currently reading and like a right are to this
ste (16:46.773)
exactly so it would be here let me make that up for this is like the version without that but i think this is how it's actually here by just wait just a second what i do
adam (16:54.96)
m
ste (17:05.373)
here we go so this one no not like that
ste (17:13.213)
here we go so it would be through here most probably where if you're currently reading you get the percentage here for reading or listening if it's an audiobook and you get the arrow and tapping this arrow would take you somewhere on a screen probably like these ones were
it will all happen in the same drawer that we're using for for tracking for yeah tracking progress on on the book i think the best tap i've seen do this is one called bookly and one of our readers on hicapar actually told me about it so it is being used and on this
and i'm going to actually show you something because i just remembered here we go just the sex i'm going to show you something really interesting after log in crap okay i'm just going to do this on the feed ever okay i'm not going to next time so basically what i did was ask cage what book tracking experin
adam (18:17.26)
m
adam (18:36.36)
m
ste (18:43.213)
what would men and i also have it on my phone but i'm using my phone as camera so next time i'll just place it here yeah the thing is there are several important things to be able to update your book progress so your page progress to be able to actually have stat on your reading to be able to time you
adam (18:44.16)
m
ste (19:13.313)
reading and to add notes where the four things it actually outlined when i asked what would make up a good book tracking experience so yeah i guess the collective intelligence also like maps that out to those like four aspects
adam (19:35.32)
so what was that up date progress notes quotes and what was the last one
ste (19:41.173)
ah starts i think something like this so oh it was actually streaks like it was something tito goals like if you are doing up dating on a particular day you are actually contributing towards one of your goals and it could be uh i want to read a certain amount of pages per day goal or it could be i just want to read daily go
adam (19:48.86)
m
ste (20:11.113)
or it could be you know just a daily streak kind of like you know like this where you have consecutive reading days and you also set a reminder so if you usually read in the evening you set a reminder at a certain hour and you get may be a push notification because i think now we could also send those you can even send them on the web once far by the
which is interesting but yeah that's the way it functions so it's well i say it's up dating the progress the reading streak the timing of your reading so saying you have been reading for like six minutes and adding notes and quotes
and also really nice to have like an be unsound but i guess this is like yeah extremely nice to have nice to have
adam (21:11.04)
gotcha
adam (21:27.96)
yeah i think that what comes to mind for me from all this is like it would be really neat to like for us to distill down all these options and then do like a maybe a user survey like from our our newsletter group and discord where we have people like rank the importance of some of these like a we could do like a this is model called like a cano model in user research where you ask
ste (21:57.753)
hm
adam (21:58.16)
to understand what's most important and what's least least important to you and that might help us like decide what of this we do on like phase one and what of it people are like you know can't live without and what features are maybe the the yeah that's neat but i don't know if i'd even use that kind of features
ste (22:14.953)
yeah
ste (22:21.313)
yeah true there are like i think a bunch of phases right here in this little thing that some are more useful than others that say so that's going to be what it was called again a channel
adam (22:36.24)
yeah cino model
ste (22:38.473)
kane model okay kind of like ranking choices like choice ranking right
adam (22:44.36)
um yeah you usually for for a kano model you don't do choice ranking i think that's something we'd probably also include in the survey though um but for a can model you ask you try to ask like the same question in two different ways you normally ask like how important is it for you to have this feature and like how how would you feel if you didn't have this feature and based on those two metrics you're able
ste (23:13.193)
m
adam (23:14.24)
determine the importance of it because someone might really want notes but they might not really care if notes are missing and so it's there's this dynamic there where like for like updating how far you along are along in the book that one is probably really important and you would really care if it wasn't there so you kind of determine like okay this is the feature that's like core to it and this is kind of a supporting feature of it
ste (23:17.053)
okay
ste (23:21.633)
m hm
ste (23:33.513)
yeah
ste (23:40.733)
yeah that sounds good i was thinking maybe for a moment you know because we we've already got this but i was wondering maybe we can talk you know freely about what we think would be nice and what the challenges would be for for tracking a book and also you know how
adam (23:59.56)
yeah
ste (24:10.873)
with it impact the use and reading habits i mean trying to see if it's really a necessity for readers what what would you think in that regard
adam (24:23.92)
yeah i'd be for that like maybe maybe we could go both like go through um kind of how we could see the feature from like end to end like as a as a user using it and that might help like flesh out some of the parts of it
ste (24:41.973)
let's do that
adam (24:43.28)
okay so um i'll start with like how how i think i would i would use it like as a as a user of hard cover wanting a future like this um i would want to be able to pick up my phone click on my books
and see a list of the books that i currently have in progress and be able to click like one thing and have n't bring up the update progress um form where i'm able to in like either enter a number or drag a slider that may be like um is a attaching to like five percent increments that way it's not like one percent at a time it's like but i could still like
enter in an increment manually in a field if i want to use this slider it might be like jumping to point and in addition to likeupdating that progress i might also i would also want to sometimes give like a paragraph or some information about like what my thoughts are on where i am at the book like really enjoying this so far you know
um i don't know what's going happen with character x i'm going to have so many questions about something something that would be shared with people who follow me with my take on where i am in the book so far that then shows up on my feed and they see like hey adams forty five per cent through the book and he just had this thought and potentially i would be able to mark that thought as a spoiler or not a spoiler that way
ste (26:12.093)
m
adam (26:38.04)
someone reading my feed hasn't read that book they wouldn't be spoiled by my comments about it
and potentially they would be able to react to that that comment in some way whether it's like a comment reply or an e mo reply probably a comment reply for for like a conversation in my feed where they were applying to me and i imagine like anyone who is able to see it would be able to reply unless i have like a setting for um like
friends only for replies or um yeah i probably i probably wanted setting for like who can reply to this like should it should it be only people i follow that can reply to it or could it be of the whole world can reply to it
or or no one and i would want to be able to delete people's replies if someone was spanning me or um it wasn't wasn't a useful discussion or something
adam (27:51.26)
and i think i think it could be like flat comments it doesn't need to be like infinitely nested it could just be like here's the main my comment and here's just a feed of comments after it but could go either way on that
um but yeah it would be it would be that likeupdating progress sharing my thoughts and then getting feed back from other people those are kind of the most important parts to me about progress tracking
ste (28:21.673)
yeah that's really interesting i mean i love the way that ties into actual discussions because that's like an important part i was worried about with notes because obviously you know what would be nice is to treat notes like discussion topics if you choose to share them so just like you post anywhere else when in social network if you chose to
adam (28:40.3)
oh
ste (28:51.953)
make a note public that would be like a great way to interact with people who are saying that you are reading that book and i'd be curious to you know get your like life thoughts like oh adam is on page fifty six of that book look what he's saying about that that's like very that's very nice and i think approaching notes like that is like really wise decision yeah
adam (29:20.96)
and and to me that's something different than notes even uh like ah i almost think of that it like like thoughts about the book as opposed to like notes where it's where it's more like um on this page this character said blahbablah and i want to remember that i think of that is a note like notes are things i want to think back on well this this progress up date message would be more like it
ste (29:22.133)
yeah
ste (29:33.733)
m hm
ste (29:42.033)
m hm
adam (29:50.8)
tweet it would be like a status up date m less than a less than a quote or a note where it's like something that i'm saving about the book for posterity and for personal growth later it's
ste (29:54.473)
okay
ste (30:05.973)
okay so you would actually like separate them between private notes for like reference for later and you know start the sub dates where you can talk about where you are at the in the book and what has been going on if you read like from page zero to fifty uh you know talking about that so people know okay on page fifty and this is like his like non spoil
adam (30:29.46)
yeah
ste (30:35.753)
or take on what has happened so far yeah i guess that would be really huge step forward from what we have now where you know you just know someone's currently reading a book you can actually see how they're reading goes uh yeah that's really that's that's similar to what what i do so let me also like walk you through the so
adam (30:40.66)
yeah
adam (31:02.92)
yeah
yeah i'm very curious
ste (31:06.073)
i guess for me actually like remember to pick up the book at a certain time so i don't like get distracted by anything else that could be also important so setting times for reading let's say i want to like have my reading usual reading have like an alarm or push notification go off at five p m telling me you know maybe it's time to pick up whatever book is in your currently reading
that could be nice so i could just go on my phone i'd go on the hard cover ap i'd go exactly like you said in books tap on the book i want to update and then i would like to forget about my phone a little so i just do that it has to be like a five second thing where i would just i'm i started to read this book
i think a time would be interesting to you know let me see when let's say half an hour has past so maybe it ud like play a sound when that well my reading session let's say is at a certain point let's say i want to read for one hour so at five it gives me like the notice re supposed to read now i pick up the book
i start the reading session i may be press play it remembers what page i was previously at yeah and that six it says okay plays the sound i can stop my reading session and i can pose to start a subject or let's say i also have some quotes from books that i usually save using the phone camera because you can select text
and if i had my phone handy i would take a picture during that reading session so taking a picture of a quote so i can save the text and then adding it on hard cover as a quote i'm not sure if for private use or for personal use but i mean for me since it's on hard cover ended
ste (33:35.953)
network where i share my book up dates i put it public on facebook i wouldn't put it public because i know i don't want someone seeing what i read on twitter as well because you know i'm talking about all sorts of other stuff there but on her cover i definitely like put it as public so i could get people's comments on that i know some people love that quote maybe some hated maybe you know
stirs up a discussion i definitely want to put it as a quote and maybe a few comments just like you know you share a bit of code and then you'd my comment underneath kind of like snip it so i have to quote as a snippet and yeah post maybe with a few words about that pot yeah and i just posted
ste (34:35.133)
yeah publicly and then i get my reading session done maybe up dating the progress could be done through a slider uh yeah and i also wanted to come towards my goal so when i finish reading i want
to have let's say a daily streak would be nice like tooling whenever i go on the old ing and i practice daily i'm practicing french now i like the way they made those treks like really frustrate you when you're missing one and they have those gems when you want to freeze the streak that they went all in on that so for yeah
adam (35:29.56)
m
ste (35:30.093)
for that that's a really good case study to lingo they also have the badges so if we had badges at some point in the future that would also be nice so i could be like whatever reader like i don't know super like consistent reader if i read for forty days straight like every day so yeah tying those two goals and something else would be nice
make me basically one do that every day and i think that's about it so on the habit part mine is on the habit part heavily i guess
adam (36:17.78)
yeah yeah yeah i think between the two of us we're covering like a lot of different parts of like what it means to track progress and like use a book up while you're reading for i was like taking note to night have a couple of follow up questions so so for something like h h setting reminders what would be to you like
ste (36:39.073)
yeah go ahead
adam (36:47.72)
advantage of doing something like that in hard cover verses like setting a reminder on your phone using a calendar or reminders out
ste (36:58.633)
good question
ste (37:03.313)
i don't know i could set it up on my phone that's that's very true and maybe i should do that
ste (37:16.893)
yeah i was trying to think if i would like it to show up somewhere or if i would if there would be like any advantage on me having it on hard cover if it would tie to now a reminder would be yeah if i set a reminder it could be on any other episode yeah i'm guessing that wouldn't necessarily have to be on her covers
so i'm guessing reminders wouldn't be like such a priority they're not tied to the goals they're not tied the tracking in anyway so yeah i'm guessing the only opportunity would be to make some nice illustrations with jewels but that really qualifies as nice to have so if at some point we can't find any other features to implement
maybe noted down for that point
adam (38:20.3)
yeah yeah i could i could see it like if we did have like streaks and other features like that then something like reminders could be like you know you get the reminder then you just click uh yes i read today or you know or you know now i'm going to start reading right now or you know de smith in that way it's it's it's either the confirmation that you have
ste (38:39.333)
yeah
ste (38:46.373)
yeah
adam (38:50.18)
a reading session it's the beginning of a reading session or it's like dismissing it which is something you couldn't get from just a reminder to go read um but but that requires yeah like that that assumes you already have like streaks and all that but it could be something that builds on that for sure
ste (38:59.473)
yeah true true true
ste (39:09.113)
yeah definitely as a port it should be afterwards yeah i'm also thinking you know it could be like a short cut to take you to the book you're currently reading or you have last read last time so you don't have to spend a couple of taps but then again you know if you can do that in five seconds yeah it could also be like a stat like on seven days out of thirty you read that your like reminder
adam (39:29.76)
yeah
ste (39:39.353)
so that but again it's not like that that important so i'm guessing when we were out of features like five years down the line
adam (39:51.96)
yeah me see oh yeah and so when you when you let's say you save a note or a quote like you know you've you've taken a photo of of a book you're reading you've imported the text of it maybe you've written a little comment about the about that note
adam (40:14.24)
i'm trying to think like what would the what would the next action be from that would it be like sharing it to your feed so others can see it would it be adding it to a data base of your notes that you can easily review it later like what would be the the usefulness of taking that note for you
ste (40:34.513)
h m i think it's first to start maybe some interactions with other readers i'm curious to see what others say so i would post it so the way i'm thinking the way i say it is that you basically get like on this cord you get to write your whole thing maybe you get to form at it without any content warnings if you have a coach
you can actually paste it from your camera if you're doing like on my phone like i do you can actually paste it from the camera and then form at it as a quote so that it shows up as quote from that yeah that page and then i'd post it now in terms of where i want to see that when i go to the book page and i would go to discussions
yeah i want to see you know my post first and the discussions that they started or yeah have in some way accessible over there and yeah my notes and quotes as for the private notes they would basically be for reference stuff i want to remember stuff i think is important from that book so if i want to let's say i don't know
the review i can remember like key parts that stood out to me um yeah so i'm guessing that would be the main main main goals of the private notes for reference and again i guess it would be useful to find them on the book page if i go to the specific book page and also
in private on a private note page where i can see all of my private notes from all the books kind of like a feed of private notes basically just like that if post i make is a private note or if i save it as a private note just shows up there
adam (42:57.18)
yeah i had someone who has never been much of a note taker i feel like i'm wanting to take more notes but i've never found that system that's really worked for me so i've been i've been trying like different note taking things like i've been using obsidian i've been trying to read wise and i'm still like i still aven't stilhaven't gotten it yet it's like
ste (43:18.293)
m
ste (43:23.493)
yeah
adam (43:24.96)
i like i like the idea of notes but i'm like i'm always so like when i'm when i'm reading a book i'm always so like into the book that i don't want to pause and like create the note so i often want to like find notes that someone else has already created based on like where i am in the book like i think for me that would be the more useful part it's like okay i'm at uh i'm at thirty three per cent of the book what are some
ste (43:38.693)
yeah
ste (43:43.793)
yeah
adam (43:54.96)
the most high lighted notes that other people have high lighted from the reading session that i just was in and then i just want to say save save save and then be able to you know reference those later
ste (44:03.173)
yeah
ste (44:06.373)
yeah
ste (44:10.753)
yeah yeah that's really good as well i mean don't get me wrong i'm also like trying to you now i usually do this when i found i find to quote that i want to share with somebody like siena my wife i just want to show her something look at what you know this says that's when i want to really take a note and i do all sorts of stuff i mean i think right now my note taking is actually making pencil mark
where i want to just like browse through a book and see where something interesting was said which is really bad so don't do this but i know i think it was like obsidian or really it was really right i think i don't know this one i know obsidian h there
adam (45:07.52)
oh yeah the other one i mentioned was read wise yea
ste (45:10.993)
realise okay realise they're kind of complex i mean i can see them for let's say scientific papers being useful where you really want to build a mental model of what that book says and all to the ideas and maybe for like people who are writers and want to take like really in depth notes on characters or you know plots
details may be that but i think a way of taking notes easier and with a social aspect to it like see what notes other people have taken isn't like there i mean the really complex note taking okay that's kind
not solve but let's say covered but the simple note taking i don't want to take complex notes i don't want to like do a ph d on a know some japanese horror of or i just want to like outline something and maybe share it and just do that so
adam (46:24.8)
at a one one kind of neat thing we did at plural site so it's like a tech education platform you know lots of you knowvideos on how to do anything in the tech world job of script you know that kind of thing and while you're watching a video there was an option to take a note and it would tie that note to that point in the video and you could see like what the popular
ste (46:47.813)
oh yeah
adam (46:54.78)
notes that other people had taken so there was there was like a chart with the video that said like this is the area of the the video that most people have taken notes on and you could go there and see like all the notes for that part of the video and i love that idea for books as well where it's like you know this book's four hundred pages and this is the track of the of the notes lots of people have a lot of notes to say and a lot of things to say about this one
ste (46:57.593)
yeah
ste (47:11.133)
nice yeah
adam (47:24.7)
heart while this one part of er here almost no one took notes on
ste (47:29.613)
yeah that's really good that's really good i can see you know some sort of range slider where you would be able to select a certain part where you'd want to see you know the notes from and coupled with that graph may be of where the big note no thing happens yeah that'd be really
adam (47:55.44)
and and this could also be like
it doesn't one thing that i think kind of excited about this idea of notes and or at least are like how we implement it is doing it in a way kind of like you said a social way where like not everyone needs to take the same note like you might be able to use a note that someone else created and now you're saving that note to your library and that way you don't have to type it all out if someone else has already created it
ste (48:13.193)
hm
ste (48:25.653)
yeah exactly
it can be a bookmark just like your bookmark list you can book mark a note i also like try like to react to that note either like you said by commenting on it or through an emogi or just like hearted or something i'm guessing twitter has like a similar thing so you can like a twit and it's the features in your like twits section on you
adam (48:30.9)
hm
adam (48:47.04)
yeah
ste (48:58.213)
profile but you can also book market and basically book marketing get i mean book marketing on by the way scrap they don't have filtering they don't have met the quarries freakinghated and it's a mess i don't know why they don't
adam (49:18.84)
i've been on twitter since two thousand seven and i don't think i've ever book marked atween
ste (49:23.193)
really oh god you should see my book mark collection i think i have thousands in there and i can filter them i can't organize them by categories like basic stuff you can search through them i spent some time like brows like scrolling through my book marks for fifteen minutes to try to find something and yeah so for for me huge time wasters see that's like really you know interesting in terms of
adam (49:33.96)
m
ste (49:53.713)
how this is just but surprisingly there's lots of like places it overlaps you know even for for us to i mean from what i've heard i think i had two interviews where i mentioned and it showed the designs for the book tracking widely different behaviors i mean some people like to really really
adam (50:03.3)
yeah
adam (50:19.42)
yeah
ste (50:22.853)
like have a companion while they're reading so that they can track every reading session and yeah others don't do that at all so i guess this feature will be first people who like really like to track things and if we manage to tie to discussions you know maybe even like you can attach a video or tiktok of what you think about a certain section of the
this could be also interesting for book clubs where you know you're currently reading something and you are keeping track of what other people reading at the same time have been posting you know on a similar progress this would actually i mean in the data this would happen so we'd have people tracking they're reading at the same time for the same
adam (51:13.38)
yeah
ste (51:22.893)
book and let's say we'd have me and you and someone else reading the same book and being at page fifty and we wouldn't know it wid be strangers if we could like go on the book page and see that we've all shared up dates from page fifty and see our up dates at the same time and okay adam is reading that
adam (51:49.02)
yeah
ste (51:53.893)
someone else is reading that on the other part of the world and i'm reading this and we're all at page fifty that's a book club i mean that's that's the sin book club you know so that
adam (52:01.18)
yeah yeah i i really love that idea i think i think if we can find a way to do that then that's a type of social network that i don't feel exists right now and it's a way of like spontaneously creating small groups of people who actually want to interact with each other and like like i think about like subreadits like there's a subreadit for most books but
ste (52:24.173)
yeah
adam (52:30.74)
people on that sub read it include people who haven't read that book who read it years ago who are reading it right now sometimes you know there will be a thread for like um this is our book of the month we're going to read through this together but this is a way of making that every book you read assuming that we have a large enough audience that there are people reading it
ste (52:48.973)
yeah exactly
ste (52:53.293)
yeah of course but you know it could get there i think like judging let's say comparing the chance you have to sing on the same book through a book club with final just people you know or even on the book network to find the book club for a certain book that's you know quite
uh unlikely that you know you'd find a book you'd actually like but if you take all the readers all over the world that say they're on high cover and they're reading the same book at the same time and they're all at page fifty and you find the way to actually like show them that they're reading the same thing at the same time uh that's like a spontaneous book club
of like a lot of people and i think it creates way more connection than traditional book clubs because these are strangers who are reading the same book and you can interact with them i think that has like i mean for me it would be like really really really attractive to see what other people are reading what i'm reading at the same time and also
what other people have read and let's say i can also see what someone at page fifty thought about page fifty in two thousand nineteen and what someone else
adam (54:34.76)
yeah that's
that's the that's exactly what i was thinking when you were saying that it's like when you when you uptoate your progress from thirty percent to fifty percent done with a book like like there's there's the opportunity to see other people who are also you know close to where you are in the book currently right now but you could also get other people's thoughts when they make when they made it to fifty percent of the book they might have read they might have read it a year ago but they also had that moment that you just had
ste (55:02.353)
yeah
adam (55:07.56)
where you know maybe something happened in that book and you want to talk about that one thing with someone who was excited about it at that moment you can find status updates by people who also crossed that event and had their immediate thoughts about it
ste (55:21.953)
yeah exactly it would be like really really nice to see t know if someone made the same notes if someone like noticed the same things from that book if they noticed like really what different things that would all be like very very interesting i mean it would open up a universe like related to the book that's like may be as exciting as the book itself uh think about all the authors who would like
adam (55:48.04)
yeah
ste (55:51.753)
love to see that for their books uh that would be freaky and amazing
adam (55:56.7)
yeah
adam (56:00.36)
m
well that's i took a lot of notes on everything we were talking about i was thinking what if for like a next step on this um i'll put together like a kano model and rank choice survey of kind of distilling all the things that we've talked about and i can share it in our r supporters channel for feedback on it to refine it before we send it out and then we could probably send it out on discord and the news letter
ste (56:06.573)
just a
adam (56:32.28)
and that could just help us determine like here's here's the v p features here's the phase one face to face three of something like this
ste (56:42.193)
yeah that sounds perfect yeah this is like exciting and you know combined with the up dates that we are going to tackle at some point where we go to discussions and you know all that happens plus we're now working on the book page so it also is into that yeah this is really like it has been a really nice exploration of this this thing if we it's a it's a tough one if we actually
manage to have people with are apt when they're reading n that's like really really enjoyable i think that's a huge huge win and yeah we can uncover some like really surprising things so it's exciting
adam (57:34.42)
well i think that's a good good stopping point for the day um yeah think thanks for jumping on and and this was this was fun it was almost like a duel product interview where we were kind of interviewing each other about our own reading styles which was kind of neat it makes me think like in the future it would be neat to like have like guests on the show and basically like interview them about their thoughts on a feature and just like dig into it
ste (57:53.013)
yeah
ste (58:03.733)
that would be freaking great maybe you can try it on the next one or the next next one but i really be you know now that we got this for mat on its tracks it would be really nice to make it into a space where we can invite readers and yeah actually do that i mean look at how many like really interesting stuff we uncovered in the past hour so yeah that that sounds great good well until next monday
adam (58:25.98)
yeah
coo
m hm
ste (58:33.433)
yeah have a good one have a week
adam (58:34.7)
cool
adam (58:38.22)
see have a good one
ste (58:40.713)
we