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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all to another episode of Echo from the Buttes, the podcast covering all things Arizona State sports. I'm your host David Helman joined by my cohost Tom Harden and Austin Bundy. And we're here to talk about a few different things that happened this weekend with the Sun Devils. know, hockey got another win. was, it was a great time for the hockey team. course, you know, we know Arizona State is a hockey school. And the football team had.
Two straight bye weeks? Am I reading that right? ⁓ Two straight weeks they didn't play a game? Is that right, guys?
Austen Bundy (00:35)
They sure as heck didn't show up this week, so.
Tom Hardon (00:36)
Yeah.
Nothing notable happened as far as I'm concerned.
David Howman (00:42)
Yeah, that needs to be really discussed for football. No, obviously, you know, they played Utah. There was a game that happened and Utah won and they scored more points than ASU did. And it was a really rough game. I know Tom was watching the hockey team and he got to enjoy the fun side of it. I was telling him before we hopped on and started recording, it's like that meme where it's the two people on the bus and one of them staring at.
like a rock wall and the other staring at this beautiful nature. And that was Tom watching the hockey game. then, you know, I'm watching football just get absolutely like grinded into dust by the Utes and, you know, miserable, miserable time. Of course, I'm also on central time. So it was a really late kickoff. Plus with the weather delay, it was even later. And so I was up till till 2 a.m. Austin is, you know, playing the world's smallest violin for me because he's on East Coast time.
We were both suffering together, you know, into the early hours of the next morning. ⁓ So obviously there's a lot to talk about with this game. Obviously Sam Levitt surprisingly pops up as an injury. He's not able to go. A lot of continued mystery around that. So Jeff Simms gets the start. A few other guys went down in this game and Kenny Dillingham even said he expects a few more guys to have.
Significant injuries going forward that are gonna miss several weeks. He said Sam Levitt is Week to week not day to day so he you know may or may not play this upcoming week against Texas Tech But outside of that the team also just looked terrible in all three phases of the game offense was really bad defense was really bad special teams was really bad and the coaching really didn't do anything to help any of those three phases given the injuries and Kenny even said after the game
We just got out coached, out worked, we got whooped. It's been a long time since we got beat that bad, which is true. know, unquestionably true. It's been a very long time since it felt like this. So is the sky falling? Are we ready to pull the plug on this season, especially with all the injuries that continued injuries going forward, the uncertainty. Let's just take a temperature check. How's everybody feeling after this one?
Austen Bundy (03:06)
I'll go first since I was more of the pessimist going into this game. ⁓ I'm not sure if pulling the plug is going to be the right term, but I think people need to accept the fact that this was going to be a regression year. mean, we could have like going into the season, we were optimistic that ASU was going to compete for the Big 12 title and it looked that way. Then Mississippi State happened. Okay, it's one loss. It's non-conference. It's not the end of the road. Then you went to Big 12 play and they seem to be right back on track. They look like the
team
that went to the Peach Bowl last year. ⁓ And then we start getting the injury news and then it's Jeff Sims starting. You could very much chalk this Utah game up to the Cincinnati game from last year. The game where again you lose Sam Levitt, you can't come back from a deficit early in the first half. ⁓ And then from there they kickstart the season and go on that magic.
think it's realistic to say we're going to have that run again after the Utah game because you've got Texas Tech next week. We may not even get Leavitt back. isn't this probably one off injury. This seems to be something that might be a little more serious. And I think ASU fans are going to have to come to reality a little bit and realize that, okay, getting to the postseason I think is just going to be a victory at this point. And by postseason, I mean just going to a bowl game period. ⁓ I think Texas Tech is probably going to win.
the big 12 unless there is some craziness later on in the season, which could very well happen. mean, eight top 25 teams lost this past weekend. So anything is possible with the amount of parity that we've got going in college football. ⁓ But I'm not necessarily going to say pull the plug on the season because that seems like we're not going to make a bowl game or we're not going to win another game the rest of the season. You're just resigning yourself to a losing season immediately after a college football playoff appearance. I don't think that's the case. I just think fans might need to temper expectations.
the rest of the way and just keep an eye on the territorial cup game.
Tom Hardon (05:07)
I'm gonna echo Austin's sentiments, the sky is not falling yet.
David Howman (05:11)
⁓
the optimist. The optimist is echoing the pessimist's sentiments.
Austen Bundy (05:13)
Ha
Tom Hardon (05:16)
Changing my tune here a little bit. Now the sky is not falling yet. Like you said, I was enjoying the sunshine and rainbows that is hockey and had every intention of going back to watch the full game. Then I saw the score getting progressively worse and worse and decided I would be better served watching a condensed version. If we're going into a game knowing that Jeff Simms is going to be the starting quarterback, if we're going into a full week of practice knowing that,
David Howman (05:18)
Man, this game really broke ya.
Austen Bundy (05:20)
Hahaha.
Tom Hardon (05:44)
I think that we can be a little bit better prepared. Now that's not to say that he's going to pull a magic trick and pull off the upset against Texas Tech next week, but I think that knowing who your starting quarterback is going to be on Monday when you start practice is going to be a little bit of a boost to the offensive core as a whole. Now, my issue comes on that preparation.
I was watching Sims make his throws and the inability to hit open receivers early was a sign of what was to come throughout the game. his mechanics are, dare I say, predictable. He is not a very mechanically sound quarterback, but I think that comes at the expense of
Like I said, not being the known starter for the entire week. I think give them time to prepare a full week with the first team offense, and then we start to see a little bit of an improvement. But I'm with Austin. Hedge the expectations back a little bit. We're not going to be ⁓ automatic back-to-back Big 12 champions.
It's going to be a tough road the rest of the way. Not only Texas Tech, but Houston is having a surprisingly good season to start after their year last year. ⁓ We've got Colorado who pulled off the upset in Folsom this past weekend. We've got, and then of course, the Territorial Cup in Arizona playing BYU very tough to a double overtime, ultimately a loss for Arizona, but.
This year, the Territorial Cup may not be quite the same ⁓ uncompetitive game as we saw the last two years.
David Howman (07:36)
Yeah, know, bleak, bleak outlook that we're getting here. But you know, that's where we're at right now. ⁓ Tom, you were kind of talking about like the road ahead. Obviously we've all talked a little bit about, you know, Texas Tech is up next. They come back home to play that game, which is nice because, you know, they still have not lost at Mountain America Stadium, ⁓ got that out, ⁓ Sun Devil Stadium, whatever you may call it. ⁓
But Texas Tech is obviously a different story. They're ranked inside the top 10. They're, I mean, they're just mowing down opponents. They've just played Kansas and I mean, their quarterback, Barron Morton, he went down in the first half, didn't come back and finish the game and their backup still was putting up points. Texas Tech had like almost 400 rushing yards and Kansas was limited to less than 50 in the game in total. So the defense is playing lights out.
The offense is playing lights out. Even when they lose their quarterback, it doesn't really make a difference because they just have so many playmakers. That's going to be really tough. Then of course they play Houston, who I believe their only loss so far has been to Texas Tech. Then they go on the road to face Iowa State. That's, know, Iowa State, you know, they've they've dropped two in a row now, but they're still a really good team, really well coached team. And that's a tough road trip to make. And then they they host West Virginia. They've not been so great, but then.
on road to Colorado and then the territorial cup at home against Arizona who you guys mentioned, know, they're having a better year than they did last year. That's a tough way to finish out the schedule. Tough even without the injuries, without this kind of wake up call loss that they just had. So I'm inclined to agree with you guys. Obviously there's gonna be a difference.
this week for Jeff Sims, knowing that he's the starter, preparing like he's going to be the starter. But do I think it's going to make enough of a difference? I don't think so. And I think a lot of that comes back to for me, some of the issues that I have with the offense specifically offensive coordinator, Marcus Arroyo. I've not been a fan of the way he's called this offense this year. ⁓ I think he was helped out a lot last year by Kam Skatibu, who we see now is, you know,
dominating the reigning Super Bowl champs in the NFL. I he's living up to the billing of being a superstar and it's becoming more more evident that not that there weren't any other good players on this offense last year, but I think he made up for a lot and he helped things out a lot. he was kind of like the easy button that whenever Marcus Arroyo got in a funk last year, he was like, all right, just give it the scat and then.
He'll do what he does and he magically makes things better. And I think a lot of people thought internally in the program and externally, myself included, that that was going to be Sam Levitt this year and that was going to be Jordan Tyson this year. And to a degree it has. But we've talked multiple times this season already about Sam doesn't look like he did last year. He doesn't look as comfortable. Maybe this injury that apparently he's had for several weeks now and re-aggravated before the Utah game. Maybe that is part of that.
But there's also been limited options outside of Jordan Tyson in the passing game. The run game has had its moments, but it hasn't been as great as it has been with Scatter. It's not been that kind of thing that you can just turn and rely on when other things aren't working out. So that's where I'm like, you know, it should be better with GF Sims having a week of actual preparation because they didn't take any first team reps in practice this week.
But I don't think that it's gonna get materially better just because I don't think that there's, I'm trying to be very polite about it with Marcus Arroyo, but I just, don't think that he's the guy to like, you know, start coming up with the swinging gate offense like Kenny Dillingham did back in 2023 or the Wildcat packages with Jalen Conyers. I don't see that happening going forward.
Tom Hardon (11:53)
David, you hit it right on the head with Scott being the easy button for Arroyo and the play calling. And we've seen this team try to, I will once again use my favorite Moneyball quote, recreate him in the aggregate with the three-headed rushing attack of Rolik and Kaisen Brown and Kanyu Yudo. We have not seen any one running back be able to truly dominate.
on a consistent basis and I think that is the issue because we if we're not establishing a a ⁓ dedicated running game week to week it's then you're forced to feed the ball through Tyson on a regular basis and defenses are going to be able to identify that they can see that in the scout video that
that they'll be reviewing before each matchup. And it's going to be very difficult to really establish a true presence on offense without being able to have a consistent running game every week.
Austen Bundy (12:54)
Yeah, I think you're all making great points here. It's going to come down to creativity and finding out which of these guys not named Jordan Tyson is going to step up and be not a primary weapon, but the guy that he Sam can go to, whoever is that quarterback can go to and make the plays in those clutch moments. mean, we're all part of the Shaman Mateur fan club here. And I think a lot of us in the beginning of the season thought he might be that guy. He might be that
safety valve who can be the dump off point who can be the guy across the middle on a third and six a third and five to get you a first down those plays that don't go down as these big highlights but are their drive saving plays and so far we haven't seen really anybody come up and be that consistent or really the more accurately we have not seen Marcus Arroyo draw up plays designed to be those types of plays designed for the guys that he knows that he's got strengths ⁓
those scenarios. I mean, when you've got a guy who has the speed of Derek Eusebio, I don't understand why you can't play him more downfield as a dual threat with Tyson. I mean, you got to force these safeties to pick and choose what guy they're going to double cover, pick and choose which of the routes they're going to take a a risk on and leave open. We know Sam has the ability to get the ball downfield and do it accurately when he's healthy and he's not rattled by cowbells. But ⁓
I if ⁓ Arroyo sits down and maybe, I don't think he needs to reinvent the playbook here, but I think if he takes a moment and reevaluates what the priorities are in the playbook, ASU's only gonna benefit because you don't have a Kam Skataboo, you don't have the easy button anymore. Jordan Tyson is not the easy button as much as he is the best player besides Sam Levin on the offense.
you need to find guys who can be easy buttons in different scenarios. You need to find the guys who are going to be your specialties on a third and short. The guys who are going to be your easy button on a goal to go situation when you don't need to force it to a Tyson in a corner where the defense already knows you're going to go to your best player in that scenario. ⁓
So bottom line creativity and priorities on the offense, I think is where this coaching staff is going to have to take a cold hard look in the mirror and think about what they want to be going forward.
David Howman (15:27)
Yeah, think like a lot of that, we kind of, we all kind of talked in some of the stuff that each of us wrote at Devils in Detail. ⁓ Going into the bi-week was like, this is, you they've won both their conference games so far, but they were both by the skin of their teeth. And specifically with offense, like the red zone was disastrous. And there were questions that they had to ask on offense. How do we get more people involved in the passing game?
Tom Hardon (15:27)
And if there is.
David Howman (15:57)
like how are we gonna divvy up this running back rotation because like you said all three of these guys have flashed at some point but none of them have done it consistently and they can't rely on any of these three as like the bell cow and and then the yeah the red zone is like they get down to the red zone and then they don't score and it's it's just there's lots of questions and
was kind of like, the bye week's coming at the perfect time because you survived two close big 12 games. But you can figure out these answers because it's getting tougher with Utah and Texas Tech coming out. And then obviously, even if they did come up with answers, that went out the window the second that Sam Levitt was ruled out. ⁓
Maybe they do have answers already and now they have to come up with new answers because it's Jeff Sims most likely for Texas Tech maybe beyond that. We don't really know yet the extent of the injury with Sam Levitt. But also, I mean, the offense has been bad.
You can kind of chop that up in this game to the situation with the quarterback, especially Jeff Sims not knowing he was going to start until a few days before. And obviously, know, also Utah has a great defense. They've always had a great defense. It's a tough place to play in Rice Eccles Stadium. Really, really hard environment to play, even if you are the starter. What concerns me most is special teams is still
Tom Hardon (16:56)
Thank
David Howman (17:24)
not good. Special teams continues to be an issue for Arizona State. Last year, it was really the only bad thing about them. mean, Kim Scowdery was a wrecking ball all season. Sam Levitt gradually got more comfortable in the offense. The defense came up big in huge moments, time and time throughout last season. And special teams was, it was like always.
Tom Hardon (17:30)
Thank you.
David Howman (17:45)
That's like the one thing that they really needed improvement on. And Kenny Dillingham even said as much going into the offseason. He went out and got Jesus Gomez as the kicker, who by and large has been reliable. He has had a couple of misses here and there. He got a field goal blocked in this game, which isn't really... He could have kicked it up a little bit higher, but that's really the protection kind of failed him on that one.
Tom Hardon (18:09)
And that's easy for us to say about taking it higher.
David Howman (18:12)
Yeah, mean, just
kick it higher, kick it farther, you know? ⁓ Yeah, just do it. But I mean, like...
Tom Hardon (18:16)
Yeah, just do it.
David Howman (18:22)
Gomez has still had, you there's been some issues there, but also there's issues with the punting consistently. The defense is defending a short field because of poor punting, poor punt coverage ⁓ against against Baylor. They had, I think they had two different kickoffs that were kicked off out of bounds. ⁓ This is still an issue. And, you know, Charlie Regal, the special teams coordinator, he came under fire a lot last year, especially in the Peach Bowl. mean, they missed a field goal. They gave up a
punt return touchdown. They had to go forward a lot more than they normally would have in that game because they couldn't trust their kicker. And it felt like this was kind of a situation where special teams needs to take a step this year. You know, they added, they added Gomez, they brought in another punter. Canyon Floyd was, you he was highly rated coming out of high school, but he had another year under his belt to grow and develop.
And it just special teams is still an issue for this team. And so when you combine an offense that can't really move the ball, a defense that I mean, it's just harder to play defense when your offense isn't scoring points. And then special teams that is constantly making things harder for your offense and defense. You got a recipe for disaster right there.
Tom Hardon (19:36)
Well, to the point about Charlie Rakel coming under fire, I don't think it's time to boot him off the staff completely.
It's, know, were talking about this a little bit pre-show and maybe it's time to transition him to more of an advisory role because he and Kenny are able to get guys in the door, but that's about where it stops as far as the overall development of the special teams. And you don't see any consistent improvement week to week in the special teams play.
You brought it up specifically with ⁓ the kicking game and Gomez, while he's been markedly better than the revolving door of kickers that we had last year, still got to block for him. He can't do it all himself. He can't block for himself and make the field goals. Something's got ⁓ to give and we've got to collectively the special teams needs to maybe have that shake up to get a
get that improvement. Now, I'm not calling again, I'm not calling for Charlie Wrigley to be shown the door. He's been a mentor to Kenny, but I think that he might be better served in an advisory capacity rather than the true special teams coordinator.
David Howman (20:53)
Yeah, think sorry Austin, I don't want to cut you off. I just want to make a point about about Regal too, because I think this is. I think this is kind of an inflection point early on for Kenny Dillingham because obviously his first year was not good and nobody really expected it to be good given the situation he walked into. Last year they took everybody by surprise and were really good and then so much of this offseason Kenny was talking about and players were talking about. Now we have to find out how this team deals with success.
And that's largely for the players, but also it extends to the coaches. It's like they retained all of their coaching staff from last year.
And as a head coach, it's always hard to make the decision of like, when do you pull the plug on the coach? Obviously Kenny Dillingham his first year, pulled play calling responsibilities from, ⁓ from Beau Baldwin pretty early on. ⁓ But he also didn't have a relationship with Beau Baldwin. Like Charlie Riggle, like you mentioned, is his mentor. He, I believe Riggle was his high school head coach way back in the day. That's where he first started coaching. Literally the very beginning of his journey. ⁓ He's also
I mean, he was a very highly decorated high school coach in the state of Arizona. He's been a special teams coordinator at Cal before this, was the head coach at Idaho State before he came to Arizona State. So he's got a resume and he's got connections and obviously Kenny thinks highly of him.
But it reminds me a lot of another guy that was a mentor for Kenny Dillingham, Todd Graham, where he had Keith Patterson as his defensive coordinator. They, of course, were college roommates back in the day. And for a very long time, there was always this conversation of the defense is what's letting this team down. Like, you got to move on from Keith. And he eventually did. And he went with Phil Bennett. And it proved to be his last year on the job. And it was a little too little too late. And again, I'm not just like you, Todd. I'm not sitting here saying, like, you know,
revoke his key card access, fire him, know, put him out on the streets and make him start, you know, the Kraft Mac and Cheese diet. But ⁓ I think it's fair to wonder at what point does Kenny Dillingham have to put his foot down and say like,
I gotta look at this a little bit more objectively. Things aren't going well. I know they were good last year, but this is this year. And what you were doing as a coach for me last year doesn't really matter if you're not doing your job this year. And obviously, this is one game, this is one loss. They still only have one conference loss. And they had two last year and things worked out fine. So I don't wanna...
you know, jump the gun and overreact and say fire everybody. ⁓ But if things do continue down this road, there's going to have to be some difficult decisions. There's going to have to be some hard conversations. And if there aren't, then you're going to kind of get yourself into a situation where he may be, Kenny Dillingham may be dragged down by people that he's unwilling to move on from if it's necessary.
Austen Bundy (23:59)
I think that's a very fair point. I'm on board with you there as well. mean, you're a head coach of a college football team, especially a power four college football team, you're a CEO essentially, and you kind of have to be cutthroat in an organization. Like you want to be the boss that everybody loves and respects, but part of that respect comes with knowing when somebody's not making the cut and somebody's dragging the rest of the product down. ⁓
mean, here's an idea of just spit balling, but why not bring in Zane Gonzalez in an advisory role? Like as much as he was a kicker and he was more on the kicking side, I'm not saying like we need help on that specific front, but the guy knows special teams anyways. Like he was in those meetings. He knows this program. He's got connections here too. And I'm sure he would draw a lot of eyeball.
⁓ on the special teams front if he was involved in some way. So I feel like he's got to have some sort of relationship with the program still. I feel like I would be surprised if nobody's in contact with him. I feel like there should be some sort of conversation had to maybe bring him in and see if he's got any ideas, if he knows anything from a more contemporary standpoint, something he can bring in from his time in the NFL that might help things. ⁓ But I mean, I don't think
it would hurt for them to at least get that sort of opinion and bring somebody in who is close to the program, has a little bit of NFL experience, and knows special teams to a certain degree that I don't think it would hurt to get his ideas.
Tom Hardon (25:33)
And you don't know if he's available unless he asks, right? So daddy is out there. Take it and run with it, son of athletics.
David Howman (25:41)
Yeah, I mean to that point Nick Saban's also available, just throwing it out there.
Tom Hardon (25:46)
I
Austen Bundy (25:47)
Now if we're going there just bring in Pat McAfee at this point. He loves Tempe.
Tom Hardon (25:47)
mean, I thought you said it. I think they're both pretty, pretty content at ESPN right now.
David Howman (25:50)
you
⁓ Yeah, but I mean something's something's gotta Get better. I mean the but the offense like we talked about the offense It's had issues for a while. Obviously the backup quarterback situation exacerbated those issues special teams has had issues I'm a little less concerned about the defense, even though they were terrible against Utah just because Again, there's extenuating circumstances there ⁓
Brian Ward has a large body of work at Arizona State and it's been on the whole it's been very positive I feel confident that they're gonna look better maybe not against Texas Tech because it's Texas Tech But I think I don't think that what we saw against Utah is what we're gonna see the rest of the year defensively but what I do have questions about and I'm concerned with is When Kenny said there's gonna be several more serious injuries after this Utah game several guys are gonna miss considerable time, of course ⁓
Ben Coleman, of course, for this game, they moved him from center to left guard. And then early on in the game, he went down. Haven't heard any specifics on where that is. There were other guys that got nicked up in this game. And just in general, Utah's always been a physical team. Dillingham said after the game, like, they absolutely whooped us. The offensive line was more aggressive than us. The defensive line was more aggressive than us. They were more physical than us. ⁓
And I mean it took its toll these guys are banged up, you know, physically and emotionally and and it sounded like there were gonna be a lot of guys that were gonna be missing time going forward which is You know, we're talking about offensive schemes special teams coaching But also if the players aren't there and you're playing a bunch of backups, there's also not a whole lot you can do especially if you don't have Sam Levitt out there and you still got questions about how are we getting the ball to Jordan Tyson and
anybody else not that they throw to anybody else but ⁓ It feels like The potential for everything to fall apart very quickly is like right there Even though you know a week ago. We were looking at this and saying like they could probably beat, Utah Maybe have a chance against Texas Tech, and you know they just got to clean some things up, so it What a difference a week makes
Tom Hardon (28:08)
To be fair, that was before we knew that Sam was going to be out for this game.
David Howman (28:11)
Yes,
yes, but things went very, fast. Not as fast as they did for Penn State, who of course fired James Franklin after losing three straight, ⁓ but still it moves very fast and it's been a quick race to the brink of destruction for Arizona State.
Tom Hardon (28:34)
And it could always be worse. bring up that James Franklin situation, it could always be worse. We could be paying out $48 million to a head coach and a buyout on top of a $700 million stadium renovation. So silver lining, I guess. But I do want to circle to the defense. While we're not super concerned, I did hear one of the most accurate statements I've ever heard about our defense's play.
David Howman (28:47)
Silver lining.
Austen Bundy (28:48)
They at least have five years to spread that out.
Tom Hardon (29:03)
the defensive line could not stop a tumbleweed from crossing the line of scrimmage. And I read that in one of the ASU fan circles and it was spot on from the play that I was able to watch. Devon Dempere was just able to gash the defense left and right and it looked like just entire hallways were being opened in the defensive line and just, know, here you go, have at it, take the yards.
Austen Bundy (29:33)
To be fair, mean, Devin Dampier did remind me a lot of Snoop Huntley and what he was supposed to be in the NFL. But ⁓ I give him lot of credit. We all knew Devin Dampier was going to be, it was a really good quarterback. Like I think a lot of people forgot Utah was four and one going into that game. I think they treated Utah more like a two and two team than they did a four and one. ⁓ But.
We saw exactly why Utah was considered as still a contender in the Big 12 and very much after beating us, they are. I still expect to see Utah deep into November, potentially on the inside track to the Big 12 championship game. Don't color me surprised if the winner of the holy war this coming weekend is going to Dallas, is going to AT &T Stadium to go play Texas Tech or whoever else is gonna be challenging at that point.
David Howman (30:23)
Yeah, no, mean, Utah, it's funny how quickly we forgot about Utah after last year too, because they were not very, not good last year. But obviously they had issues, Kim rising and his own injury. And then I think like by the end of the year, they were on like their fourth or fifth string quarterback. Those guys just kept getting hurt.
But it's like, Kyle Whittingham has been the head coach there. Now that Mike Gundy's fired, he's the second longest 10 year coach in college football after Iowa's Kirk Ferentz. He's done it for a very long time and he's done it because he wins. He consistently wins. And, you know, what's that?
Austen Bundy (31:03)
This is his send-off tour.
This is his send-off tour.
David Howman (31:09)
potentially, but I mean, they overhauled the offensive staff. They brought in Jason Beck from New Mexico. They brought his quarterback, his receiver, a couple of other players, brought in other guys as well to shore up that side. The defense has always been great. I mean, they can play and they can beat anybody and I mean, except for Texas Tech. But...
Austen Bundy (31:10)
he's done. He's retiring. He's done.
David Howman (31:36)
Yeah, I agree. They're going to be, I think they probably beat BYU next week. I think they probably have the inside track to be that other team that's playing in Dallas alongside probably Texas Tech. I would be shocked if it's not Texas Tech in the Big 12 title game at this point, just with how other things have been shaping up. But yeah, mean, this Big 12 everybody talked about at the start of the season, it's so wide open. And yeah, a lot of these teams got a whole lot better. And for Arizona State...
I mean, Sam Levitt wasn't as good as we thought he was going to be. Now he's hurt. You know, there's there's question marks that they had that they haven't answered. But it's also again, I want to stress it's not over. Like I said earlier, last year they had two conference losses and they got to the Big 12 title game. So far they have one conference loss.
Lot of people are going to predict that they're going to lose next week to Texas Tech. But again, it's at home. It's a home game for them. They haven't lost a home game in a very long time. Texas Tech has beat a lot of teams, but they haven't had to beat ASU in their stadium with those fans. So just because this loss was horrible and miserable and terrible and made me question my love for the game of football in general. ⁓
It's not completely lost. It's not completely over. I think there is still potential that they can turn some things around. Maybe it'll light a fire under these guys similar to how it did after Mississippi State.
Austen Bundy (33:10)
You sure the Dallas Cowboys losing to the Carolina Panthers didn't ruin your love for football?
Tom Hardon (33:18)
And I think the Cowboys just in general have numbed him to football.
Austen Bundy (33:21)
you
David Howman (33:23)
Their offense gives me love for football. The defense, yeah. And I think that's why I'm not as concerned about ASU's defense is because I watch Matt Eberfluss every Sunday and go, yeah, this is as bad as it gets. So yeah, but thank you Austin for bringing that up.
Austen Bundy (33:36)
You
Thank
That's what I'm here for.
David Howman (33:47)
Yeah.
But, ⁓ but Saturday night was terrible for ASU football fans, but it wasn't terrible for ASU hockey fans. As we mentioned at the top of the show, ASU hockey got a win and it was, was very funny because the games were kind of going on almost at the exact same time. and so like Tom and Andrew were both live tweeting about the hockey game as I'm watching this, you know, the football game unfold and
And it was funny because we were, ASU football was in the fourth quarter when the hockey game officially went to a win. And I was like, thank God we won something. And I like, what a way to, to salvage it. So that being said, I didn't get to watch the team that actually ended up winning, but Tom, tell us about the Sun Devil hockey team, how they're doing, how they won and give us something to, to feel good about right now.
Tom Hardon (34:41)
I'm always happy to give the good news about hockey. It was actually a very exciting weekend for ASU hockey. Hosting the College Hockey Inc. Icebreaker Tournament, it's a very prestigious tournament to be able to host. It's considered the unofficial opening to the college hockey season. And it was something that ASU put in to host as soon as Mollet Arena opened. we were given ⁓ the right to host it last year. It was something that I had circled on my calendar for a long time as soon as that was announced.
Sounds.
But we played Notre Dame on Friday night in the the preliminary game won won by a score of five to three. It was a very well rounded game compared to the opening series that we saw against Penn State. Granted. The competition wasn't as steep as Penn State, but still a much better performance all around. We saw the emergence of what is going to be my favorite line on this team, and it's the line consisting of Carmella Crandall.
Colin Potter and Ben Keeven. These guys are fast, they are offensively sharp, it's going to be hard for defenses to keep up with them.
Potter and Keevan have both played together during the 2025 World Junior Summer Showcase, so they know how to feed off of each other's playing styles and read where each other's going to be on the ice to maximize their efficiency. Keevan scored his first two career goals. Randall scored a goal. The line was responsible for five points in total with ⁓ three goals and two assists on Friday night. Going into Saturday, ⁓
Alaska actually pulled off a pretty heavy upset in their preliminary game against number eight ranked Quinnipiac to advance to the championship. And Arizona State has a, I'll call it a rivalry because both teams were independents for quite a long time. And there was a lot of head to head play between Arizona State and Alaska.
The last time the two teams met, there were some fireworks in Fairbanks when Tucker Ness engaged in a very rare fight at the college hockey level and. Samaritally was suspended for the rest of the season because you simply just can't fight in college. But as you got the got the the last lap against Alaska last night, winning by a score of five to two. And for me, my biggest takeaway from yesterday's game was the power play.
Arizona State's power play was abysmal for the first three games of the season, one for 17 with the man advantage. To put it in a little bit of perspective, last year across college hockey, the average power play percentage was just under 20%, and ASU led the nation with nearly a 30 % power play conversion rate.
Last night, all five goals were scored on the power play. Five of nine conversion opportunities, bringing the average up to about 23 and a half, just over 23 % this season. And again, Alaska, being an independent, they're kind of a mystery. They don't ⁓ have a conference to gauge themselves off of. Their back half of the season is going to be entirely other independent teams on their schedule. So they're trying to make the most out of
the front half of their schedule with playing as many power teams as possible but setting the tone for the season bringing home a fourth straight in season tournament trophy dating back to the 2023 Adirondack winter invitational it's a good little feather in the cap for ASU to to be 500 after two weeks and going on their first road trip at Augustana next weekend.
David Howman (38:25)
There we go. mean, everybody knows that, you know, hockey goes through the desert.
Tom Hardon (38:31)
We are a hockey school that is 100 % right.
David Howman (38:35)
Yeah, it's nice that Arizona State is successful in more than just one sport because obviously last year football was big. still, people show up for the games. ⁓
But seeing Sun Devil Hockey succeed, know, last year was obviously a big year for them. Moving into the NCHC is, in general, just big for them. Having that kind of success and there's a lot of anticipation for this year and I think like the Penn State loss kind of didn't suck the air out of the room, but it did feel kind of like a little bit of a let down even though Penn State is really, really good. Of course.
Penn State sacrificed their football program for that win over Arizona State, as it turns out.
Tom Hardon (39:21)
Thank
The only way that I would say last weekend was a let down for hockey is just the play, the inability to play a complete game. We played a great middle 20 minutes both nights. All of our scoring came in the second period for both games and we had leads going into the third period of both games. It was just the inability to play a full 60 minutes and close out those tough wins. Penn State scored eight goals combined in the third period last weekend, which
You're not going to win very many games, very many series if you are giving up that many goals in the final 20 minutes. Now, a lot of that is the high skill level that Penn State possess. Obviously Gavin McKenna, but you've got Jackson Smith. You've got NHL draft picks up and down that lineup and...
Austen Bundy (40:13)
Serato.
Tom Hardon (40:14)
know, Guy
Godowski is the, he's the upcoming coach for the Spengler Cup, which is going to be a team composed of college hockey select players from across the country. So he, you know, obviously he knows what he's doing on the other side of the bench. I think with Coach Powers, you he knows what he has in hand. I think he's found, he's caught lighting in a bottle with the Crandall Potter-Keven line.
It's getting the rest of team around them to perform at a consistent level. The fourth line with Sam Alfano and Johnnie Waldron has been dynamite to start out as well. Those guys could easily be any other team's third lines. So we have the depth in the hockey team. It's just putting it all together at the right time.
David Howman (41:03)
And I mean, hockey is just getting started and they're going to have a big year. Obviously in other news, I think women's basketball just had their media day, the Big 12 women's basketball media day. There's a lot of anticipation around women's basketball as well with the new head coach, Molly Miller. There was a profile on this team in on three sports recently talking about.
This team might be a surprise. They might be able to shock some people in the Big 12, not necessarily win the Big 12 outright because it is a really good conference in women's basketball, but. ⁓
they're definitely going to be a little bit closer to last year's ASU football team where a lot of people overlook them to start the year. And then they come out and play an exciting brand of basketball. And so I'm really excited to see how that team starts out, especially with the new coaching staff. There's a lot of excitement around there, excited to continue to follow the hockey team. ⁓ Men's basketball starts too. ⁓ That's coming up ⁓ and you know.
We'll talk about all of that.
Tom Hardon (42:09)
Well, they're actually,
they played an exhibition against UC Irvine earlier today.
David Howman (42:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (42:19)
for what that's worth.
Austen Bundy (42:21)
It happened. It exists. It's out there.
David Howman (42:21)
Yep, they did. Yeah,
it's out there. The basketball was played. ⁓ know, Bobby Hurley, his back's against the wall, as Graham Racini put it at one point this offseason. Not unlike Mike Gundy's back was against the wall at Oklahoma State. And, you know, we'll see how goes.
Tom Hardon (42:45)
How long
Austen Bundy (42:46)
If I'm Bobby Hurley,
Tom Hardon (42:46)
will we shoot?
Austen Bundy (42:47)
if you got your back against the wall, what do you have to lose when you already know that the university is already getting ready to get rid of you at the next excusable moment? At this point, just do anything.
Like literally just do anything right now. Like throw whatever combinations you want out there. Like get creative with this. Like do things that you thought were going to get you fired before. Like you have nothing to lose. Like you might as well just get as creative as possible and try and come up with something that's going to shock people. Something that's going to get you an upset here or there. Like nobody's expecting you to go to the tournament as much as that's what they were hoping you would have done and more consistently in your tenure. But if you're Bobby Hurley, like give it everything. Like just throw it.
everything in the kitchen sink out there.
David Howman (43:33)
I think you should speed up.
Tom Hardon (43:33)
My question is,
Austen Bundy (43:35)
Ha
Tom Hardon (43:36)
my question is how long does the leash go for Bobby?
David Howman (43:40)
Well, he's going into the last year of his contract, so it goes until that expires, I think.
Tom Hardon (43:45)
But is there a situation where you see that he's just shown the door midway through the season, or do you think he's just allowed to play under a lame duck year?
David Howman (43:54)
I don't think that they let him, I don't think that they would have let him coach into the final year of his contract in this setup if there was like a point of no return. Now obviously, you know, if he like gets in a fist fight with somebody during a game and you know, if he decks a ref or something, it's entirely possible. ⁓ But then, you you're talking about like a fired for cause kind of situation, obviously very different. ⁓
Austen Bundy (44:11)
There is a non-zero chance of that. Just put it out there.
David Howman (44:23)
I think he goes through the full season, plays with this roster. ⁓ Genuinely, I know I've been joking a little bit about it. There's not a lot of excitement for the men's basketball team. I am intrigued to see how it looks because for most of the Bobby Hurley tenure, he's kind of gone the route of bringing in high profile players, bringing in a bunch of four stars, getting Lou Dort like he did, getting... ⁓
I don't remember how to pronounce his last name, but Jethro when he was here, Jethro T. ⁓ And then most recently, the teams that he built the last couple of years, like highly, highly rated classes, both in the transfer portal and in the high school recruiting era.
Austen Bundy (44:50)
Josh Christopher.
David Howman (45:07)
And this season, he's not done any of that, largely, I think, because everyone knows he's a lame duck coach, but he's brought in a bunch of transfers from mid-major programs around the country.
And like some of these guys, mean, one of, think Mo Odom was, he was like top five in the nation in assists this last year. They have a few leapers that can get to the rim. They have a couple of guys that are really good shooters and it's just a very different approach from everything that we've seen from Hurley in the past. And Austin, like you said, his back's against the wall. He's got to try everything and he's trying something very different. And I'm very curious to see how it works. I'm not confident.
Austen Bundy (45:47)
Size was always an issue
for them. Whenever I would watch, size was always an issue. They never had a big man that could play defense under the rim. They were always giving up perimeter shots and they felt very slow getting to defend the perimeter. I mean...
I don't know if I feel like Bobby was recruiting purely around offense and not enough on defense. And it just feels like when you see them go up against these big 12 squads, they look puny out there because you've got the Kansases with their gigantic corn fed boys out there. Like it's it's embarrassing sometimes to see to see that school those squads that looks so good on paper that you see the recruiting, you see those a lot of the stars next to their names and they go.
out there and they get beat by 20 points ultimately by some of these blue blood programs in the big 12 and that was always going to be difficult to overcome but at some point the recruiting's got to translate to wins and I don't know what it was if Bobby was just snake bit with his coaching style but it just never translated and you never know like you said he's trying something different maybe he gets a scrappy group together and puts together some sort of great last-minute run I mean I
I don't want the university to get enamored with whatever may come of some miracle run that he gets out of this and sign him on for another year or two years. I don't think they should ⁓ put any rose colored goggles on with that. Just let him have his nice little moment if he's able to salvage something out of a lame duck season here.
Tom Hardon (47:21)
I think the only way that those rose-colored glasses should be put on is if we somehow have a final four run. I think that's about the floor for his return.
David Howman (47:34)
think we have that problem on our hands. Respectfully to Mr. Robert Hurley.
Tom Hardon (47:41)
And just throwing
it out there. If you don't say it, you never feel it.
David Howman (47:44)
Yeah,
I mean, shoot, if we go, if we even get to the round of 32, ⁓ I'm throwing a party, but, you know, we'll see how that goes. We'll, you know, like always, we're here to cover all things Arizona State sports. We'll cover men's basketball, women's basketball, hockey. ⁓
Everything else under the Sun and of course football because because that's the the sport that's really kicking into high gear right now and and we're at a crucial time in the season so ⁓ you know, we'll be we'll be marinating on this loss and Find out more throughout this week as far as who's in who's out for this game against Texas Tech ⁓ Because it's gonna be a pivotal game this week. And of course, we'll be back ⁓ Friday here at echo from the boots talking about that matchup and have a little bit
better idea of what exactly we're going to see come Saturday. So until next time for Awesome Bundy for Tom Harden, I'm David Hellman signing off for Echo from the Boots and as always remember to always give them hell devils.