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Laces Out Loud is an NWSL and women’s soccer podcast about the game on the field and the forces shaping it off the field. The show blends match analysis, supporter passion, and bigger-picture conversations about player welfare, league growth, media coverage, business, technology, and soccer culture. We are here for the goals, the tactics, and the chaos - but also for the questions that determine whether the women’s game can grow with the ambition, care, and investment it deserves.
I'm sorry. You say what? To use the My Cousin Vinny reference.
Alli:I was thinking Schmidt
Gurushabd:from your book.
Pamitha:Get your cookie. Got your cookie. Welcome back listeners to another episode of Laces Out Loud. I am Pammatha, and as always, I am joined by Gurus Chabad.
Gurushabd:Welcome back, everyone.
Pamitha:And making their triumphant return to the podcast, Allie.
Alli:I'm back. Hello.
Gurushabd:Allie, we've missed you.
Alli:Me too, me too. I'm very excited to have the scheduling gods in our favor today.
Pamitha:Yeah. Scheduling gods were in our favor. The technology gods? Not in
Alli:our favor. Not so much.
Pamitha:This is we're doing it blind. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna have a lot of fun today, guys. We can't see each other because, our technology is not allowing us to utilize video as we record. Once again, offering a peek inside our podcast journey.
Alli:But
Gurushabd:Yeah. I don't know how to use a computer.
Pamitha:I don't think you're fine. I think your computer forgot how to computer. Okay. Think I
Gurushabd:don't know how to fix it.
Pamitha:No. How's everybody doing? We had a rainy weekend filled with soccer that we'd like to forget. Gurus Chabad, how about you? How are you doing?
Pamitha:I
Gurushabd:traveled to the desert to surprise our friend for his birthday, see my parents, see some friends, and now I'm back in the rainy Pacific Northwest where I belong
Alli:right now. Nice.
Pamitha:Back where you belong. Yeah. That's awesome. How was how was the surprise party?
Gurushabd:Oh, it was really sweet. He he loved it. He loved that he had no clue we were coming. Yeah. It was really sweet to see everyone.
Gurushabd:But I'm I grew up in the desert, and it's no longer for me, I realized.
Alli:Oh, really?
Gurushabd:At least at this stage in my life.
Pamitha:Is it like a weather or too many insects? Or
Gurushabd:It's just too hot. Oh? You know, it's 95 degrees, and we came from fall over here where it's, you know, drizzly and the leaves are changing.
Alli:So Yay.
Pamitha:It was
Gurushabd:a shock to our systems.
Alli:I love fall. We also got a taste of that this weekend when it was rainy and cold as opposed to the last Spirit home game where it was 90 degrees and sunny, and I am ready for fall.
Gurushabd:Yeah, you just need a light sweater.
Alli:Exactly. Okay.
Pamitha:Oh, man. Well, maybe we should spend some time talking about the winter closets then.
Gurushabd:Winter closets
Alli:I
Gurushabd:Games last weekend.
Alli:I have to say, we were texting with some friends, and one of them mentioned the Winter Closet, and I said, what's that? And she said, obviously, we haven't listened to your episode this week. It was Words a little bit embarrassing. Words right now.
Pamitha:Congratulations, NWSL teams. You have finished the twenty third week. Achievement accomplished. Well, let's just start with the monkey in the room. Washington, we just can't seem to win at home.
Pamitha:The spirit dropped a one nothing heartbreaker to Angel City, a match that we absolutely needed to have to keep our position in the standing. The Angel City goal was gorgeous. I can't fault Sandy McIver for missing it. It was an upper 90 shot by a player whose name I cannot remember off the top of Thank my you very much.
Gurushabd:Nous, she's Brazilian. She's amazing.
Pamitha:Love
Alli:her. Was gonna say new house, but that is not right. And now I want chocolate, but
Pamitha:Yeah. Love
Alli:it. My coping mechanism.
Pamitha:Well, we'll be sending a lot of chocolate to the spirit fandom for their coping mechanism. That one nothing Los Angeles City was tough and pretty difficult at home. The the our Gurus Shabad, Seattle, two nothing against Boston. That's an opposite impact. How are you feeling about that?
Gurushabd:Fishlock is back. Fishlock is back. Yes. She is. And yeah.
Gurushabd:I don't know. They're like my sleeper team right now where maybe we'll, you know, keep our playoff position and win our first game or two, and kinda surprise some people. I think we are a surprising team, yeah, if we do, you know, make the playoffs and still win a game or two.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Alli:I
Gurushabd:do my sleeper team. Sleeper in Seattle.
Alli:Yes. Wow, it feels like that should be a movie title. So close. Yeah.
Pamitha:Yeah, so victory's at the top of the table, San Diego, two nothing against racing. What is said about racing has been said about racing. Gotham, three one over Chicago. Again, what has been said about Chicago has been said about Chicago. The, spirit loss means San Diego is entrenched in the number two spot.
Pamitha:Gotham is running away at number one at the moment. Kansas City, four one against Denver. Kansas City is having the opposite experience with their home victories compared to the Spirit.
Alli:Portland? I was a little surprised with that outcome. I thought it was gonna be closer.
Pamitha:Meaning you thought Denver would have a stronger showing? Mhmm.
Alli:I'm not sure.
Gurushabd:Denver's Denver Summit got chewing good.
Alli:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Like, they couldn't keep up with her, that's how they scored a lot of their goals.
Alli:Yeah. I could have seen that one going to either team, but I didn't expect it to be that lopsided. Yeah.
Gurushabd:The Summit, they're a strong team. Yeah. I had a thought today, I don't see them making the playoffs this year, but I could see them winning the championship next season.
Pamitha:Wow.
Gurushabd:With where they're headed.
Pamitha:Love that. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, they're they're currently in tenth place, with 35 points.
Pamitha:So, yeah, I think it's it will be difficult but not impossible to see them come in. Portland, still in squarely in the playoff match, one one against Houston. Orlando took out Bay FC three to one, and Utah took out North Carolina two to one. Any anything surprising, any of the outcomes for you guys
Gurushabd:other than Denver? I was surprised that Portland, for one, they're having a hard time at home this season just like the Spirit. They didn't tie the game until the end of the game, so they almost lost to Houston. It was after the eightieth minute when they were finally able to tie the game. Actually, the South there's still a strong team, but they're having a rough time.
Alli:I have about four to five hours of analysis on the Spirit. Should I just jump in?
Pamitha:Oh, yeah. Go ahead. All positive?
Alli:Yeah, yeah. Okay. Totally. I mean I do have thoughts on the spirit.
Pamitha:Yeah,
Alli:go. Oh, okay. Go. So I have been thinking a lot about the spirit, and I have a couple of thoughts. First off, Reddit is a terrible rabbit hole to go down when your team is on a bad streak, the number of people feeling like
Pamitha:Also, is starting out as a criticism of Reddit as opposed to a critique
Alli:Yeah. Of the Let me try this again. Yeah. So a lot of entitled people on Reddit who are like, I showed up in bad weather and my team didn't show up for me, I don't know if I'll get season tickets again next year. A lot of people say we needed to fire the coach or blaming things on one person.
Alli:So all kind of disappointing things to see. But what I wanted to say is I have a couple of thoughts about the spirit playing poorly right now. And to me, there are three things that they need to do that kind of just go back to the basics. Like I'm worried, but I'm not like this is a catastrophe, let's start from zero. The first thing, I think they have really bad off the ball movement right now, and that a lot of the complaints that fans have if you watch the game about oh we play the ball back too much, we're not making the right passes, we're turning the ball over all of the time.
Alli:I feel like that goes back to needing players to be making off the ball runs to open up the space to then make the passes. And I think part of that goes with the players meshing together, and we have a lot of new players coming in and recognizing who's making runs where and when. And then the last piece is having a I hate saying this word mentality because I feel like people use mentality to say, oh, if we had better mentality, we would have won the game. But I'm looking specifically at the first and last minutes of the game. And in the first ten minutes of the games this season, the Spirit have conceded four goals.
Alli:And in the final ten minutes plus extra time, they've conceded 10 out of 24 total. And I feel like at the beginning and end of games, if you're falling apart, that's where specifically that mentality piece is, like, creeping in. So those are my thoughts on the spirit.
Gurushabd:And that's crazy that people are jumping over, you know, a loss to a really strong team. I think people need to remember that Los Angeles is a strong team this season.
Alli:They
Gurushabd:are. And firing the coach is crazy. And, also, it's the end of the season. Like, players are getting tired, and there is that resurgence at playoffs. It's true.
Gurushabd:Just need to make playoffs, and then that can really give you a boost. Like, okay. We're in it now, but we're in, like, this long haul. Like, yes. They're professionals.
Gurushabd:They shouldn't have senioritis, but they're injured. They're tired. They're they're getting to playoffs right now.
Pamitha:Yeah. I think that we need to have a I think fans over the NWSL need to take a long hard look at themselves and really ask the question, what are we supporting? And do we need sort of like a fan reeducation type of program for soccer just in general in this country, with a lens on how do we really show up for women's women's athletes and women's players.
Alli:Yeah. And I get fans being disappointed, and I think this has been a weird season for the spirit where we started out really slowly, and then we got better, and then we had some really good games, and then we did poorly again. So it's been up and down. My frustration has been that it feels like small things that need fixing that don't get fixed, and then we're just passing the ball to the other team. So I I get the frustration, but the jumps are like the jumps to like, well, we need to fire the coach now.
Alli:Well, in July, he was coach of the month because we were so successful. And now August and September were terrible. I'm not saying he's done everything right, but back to the conversation that we've had previously of like, do you just fire a coach when things start going downhill? How long do you give them to, you know, right the ship before doing that?
Gurushabd:And my take is nothing is going downhill. You're in third.
Alli:Like Absolutely. Yeah.
Gurushabd:You guys are doing great.
Pamitha:Yeah. You're doing just fine.
Alli:I'll tell you part of the problem. So one of the things also one of the things also I looked up, so we got spoiled by the 2024 season, because the 2024 season, the Spirit scored 51 goals, and their home record was ten, one, and two. And that's where the kind of like rowdy outy thing started. Then in 2025, we scored 42 goals, and our home record was six, three, and four, which didn't feel that good after 10 home wins. And now this season, we've so far scored 36 goals, and our home record is six, one, and six.
Alli:So, you know, it's we got spoiled by this, like, great season, and then
Pamitha:Wait, six six one and we have one loss
Alli:at home?
Gurushabd:No, one tie. Losses. Six losses, one tie.
Alli:Yeah. I was looking at FBref, I think they do it at the win because I did the same thing. I was like, that's not right because we've had I know we've had five of six losses Yes.
Pamitha:Like in a row at Audi. Right. So that's a win tie loss. Because normally, it's a win loss tie.
Alli:Right. Yeah. No. I did the same thing. I believe that one was an FBref the way that they do it.
Alli:But, you know, we got spoiled by a really, like, you know, Kansas City Esque season at home in 2024 that makes this also seem Yeah. You know, it's like we forget that we're winning sometimes on the road, but And not at
Gurushabd:remember, it's about the journey. Not every team will win the championship.
Alli:No, no. It's about winning.
Gurushabd:Does it mean your team didn't have a successful season?
Alli:Well Just winning.
Pamitha:I hear there's always going to be another mountain, and it's always
Gurushabd:Sing it, Parmatha. Sing it.
Pamitha:It ain't about how fast we get there.
Alli:It's the climb.
Pamitha:It's about what's waiting on the other side. Yeah. It's the climb.
Alli:Sorry, I jumped a little early.
Pamitha:That's all good. Speaking of climbing, checking out the risers and fallers this week. It's not as turbulent as it was last week. The Courage, unfortunately, for them dropped two spots from seven to nine out of playoff contention. Washington has dropped from two to three.
Pamitha:We're sort of ping ponging back and forth with the San Diego wave at this point. The bottom eight of the table remains virtually identical. Chicago racing, Boston, Bay, Houston, Orlando, Denver, and now North Carolina. Seattle, Kansas City each have jumped up one spot. Seattle at eight, Kansas City, seven.
Pamitha:Angel City holding at six, Portland at five, Utah at four, Washington at three, San Diego, two. And at the top, seems like it's going to be a consistent theme, Gotham FC.
Alli:You're driving through a tunnel. I couldn't
Pamitha:hear you. Yeah. We're just we're living in the we're it's Gotham FC's world, and we're just living in it right now. It's just the the way it's gotta gotta be. Scores aside, there were some milestones this week.
Pamitha:The Ashley Sanchez goal watch ticks up. She has now tied the record for most goals in an NWSL season with 20.
Alli:Woo hoo.
Pamitha:Way to go pickle, Ashley.
Alli:Way to go. Yeah.
Pamitha:Hey, Guruschwed. How's Fishlock doing? All she's doing is setting records.
Gurushabd:Yeah. You informed me of that one. Somehow I missed that.
Pamitha:All good. There's so much going on to be excited about in Seattle. She had a great
Gurushabd:this weekend. Yeah.
Pamitha:She did. And has and has become the regular season record holder for goals for the Seattle rain. Way to go, Jess Fishlock. That's fantastic. Kansas City, they have continued their unbeaten home streak.
Pamitha:Again, this is the opposite effect for the the Washington spirit, but Kansas City now unbeaten at home in 30 consecutive matches. That's Wild. Pretty good. Pretty pretty good.
Alli:It's okay. Yeah.
Pamitha:Yeah. It wasn't all bad for the spirit. We saw the arrival of our first Tanzanian born player, Clara Lovonga, who got into the match. Very exciting. She definitely appreciated the support from the crowd.
Pamitha:She looked at us and definitely clapped and smiled, we started singing for her. That was great. Looking forward to some exciting things. She looked like a physical real physical presence on the field. And Jaden Shaw.
Pamitha:Jaden Shaw is the youngest player in NWSL history to score 25 goals. Hopefully, Jaden, that accomplishment is of comfort for you as as we record, we are just a couple of hours removed from the announcement for the fall roster for the women's national team, which unfortunately does not include Jaden Shaw, but does include Ashley Sanchez.
Alli:Woo hoo.
Pamitha:So we're
Alli:Yay. It is about freaking time. Yeah.
Pamitha:Quite excited
Gurushabd:about Yeah. I don't yeah. I don't think Jaden Shaw's I think that's gonna be okay. Like, how Emma Hayes is doing everything, we can get into this. But Emma Hayes just wants everyone to have playing time so she can continue to develop everyone.
Gurushabd:That's just part of her plan. That doesn't mean she won't be making the World Cup necessarily.
Alli:Yeah. It sounds like her and Centenor will be playing on the 23 squad. And Emma, what I saw was that she had basically yeah. What you said, like, we don't want players sitting on the bench. We want them getting minutes.
Alli:So if they're not gonna be getting minutes with the full squad, let's get them playing with the 23s. And we've seen Shaw and a couple of other other players go back and forth between the 23s and the full squad, which I think is great, because we we talked in an earlier episode about how Emma's kind of revitalized the 23s and really using them as a, like, more, you know, more practice with or oh my gosh.
Gurushabd:Yeah. More practice.
Pamitha:Chemistry?
Alli:No. Like, a through way to the senior squad. It had kind of fallen or the 23s had kind of fallen off the map and had, like, one match a year or something like that, and she's really brought them into the fold and helped develop that age group to then play into the senior
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Alli:Senior squad.
Gurushabd:And even this u twenty group in the World Cup, like, she's just using each team to then funnel in for those players to get more playing time, more experience, and probably using them as, like, captains too and seniority on the team and kind of practice being a leader.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. So looking at the press release, of the 23 field players, 17 have scored in international matches, which is pretty cool from a a a competition perspective. Nine of nine players have 11 or fewer caps. Think about that.
Alli:Wow. Wait. On the the senior call up? Or the Mhmm. Wow.
Pamitha:Yeah. Nine players of 11
Gurushabd:or Four four brand new.
Alli:Yeah. And the who are the four new?
Gurushabd:Jordan Silkowitz, Evelyn Shores, Petra Torden, and Trinity Byers.
Alli:Awesome.
Gurushabd:Yeah. They definitely got more call ups. You know, Moultrie and Sonnett are injured. So if they make it to the World Cup or not, Emma Hayes will have these, you know, new players to choose from.
Alli:Yeah. And it sounds like Girma might possibly be a scratch coming up too, that she took a knock in training today. Oh, no. Yeah. Which I hate because, I mean, Irma's amazing.
Alli:But I do think it's good from, you know, as we're going into a World Cup that Emma is still looking at players that are, you know, on the fringes of making the roster and giving them the opportunity to come in and make an impact and make their case, and so that's only you know, I know she has a core set of players, and we'll just kind of help build around that. So excited to see what this next window looks like.
Pamitha:Yeah. There's two How do
Alli:you guys
Gurushabd:Mhmm?
Pamitha:Oh, I was just gonna say, there's two interesting points on that in this press release. Emma Hayes has given caps to 60 different players, and of those sixty, fifty six have started a match. She's given 32 players first they've she's given 32 players their first caps in her first 32 matches on the helm. And last December, Kate Wiesner became the fiftieth different player to start a match, which, again, it says a lot about her values in terms of player development. Mhmm.
Pamitha:That says a lot. And and I also just wanna point out because we talk about the NWSL, and there are 20 NWSL players on the roster, six who are playing for clubs in Europe, and in total, 19 different professional clubs are represented, and no club has more than two players. Oh. Which also says a lot because I think that wasn't always the case. Yeah.
Pamitha:Yeah. So
Alli:yeah. I I also in thinking about player caps, I have this number stuck in my head. I actually think it was Tobin Heath and Kristen Press's first episode of the recap show during the twenty twenty three World Cup, where they had Jill Ellis on, and we're talking about, you know, putting together the roster before a big tournament. And Jill said that roughly the number that she looked at was 30 ish. Like, wanted a player to have had about 30 caps going into a major tournament.
Alli:That's where she felt that they were settling in and not just that that was kind of the ideal number that she looked at. So thinking about that going into the World Cup as well.
Pamitha:And Guru Shabad, I cut you off previously. What were you gonna say?
Gurushabd:Oh, there's a lot of talk that people want Sarah Gordon to get a call up.
Alli:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Which I don't think she'll see, and it might be an age thing. I don't know if age should, you know, preclude someone from not getting on the roster, but she is 34 now. It's So not like she has a lot of years for MAs to develop her and bring her to multiple tournaments. So I think that's why.
Alli:I don't
Gurushabd:know if that's, you know, that's the way it should be or not. But
Alli:Yeah. I agree. I know there's a handful of players. Low, Lavonta, most recently, I think 32 when she got called up for a couple matches. But I I think that is a travesty that Gordon's never gotten called up because, yeah, she's really good, and having had to watch her win the ball again and again this last weekend.
Alli:Yeah, she's excellent. So I've never understood
Gurushabd:She's at the top of her game, but I don't think that necessarily translates to getting a call up.
Alli:Yeah. But she's a player
Gurushabd:She's a age, which Yeah, is but
Alli:it also seems like she's consistently played at a high level and just never gotten that. It's not like, you know, she suddenly got good at 32 or 34, and now it's too late. So I don't know why earlier in her career she wasn't called in. But she's she's good.
Pamitha:Well, on the on the opposite end of that career trajectory is a whole host of young women who are coming onto the scene in our 25, 23, 20, 17 squads. And in your triumphant return again, Allie, you have our VAR for this week on player development.
Alli:Yes. Yes, yes. Very excited. I appreciate that you called it a triumphant return before. I guess we'll let other people decide if it's triumphant or not.
Alli:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Of course it is.
Pamitha:Oh, It's very much, yes.
Alli:So I was interested so we, a couple of weeks ago during the I guess months ago, during the men's World Cup, we had a discussion on academy system and what that looks like in Europe, and is that something The US should emulate? And wanted to revisit the topic of, Pammotha put it nicely, like player development. My title was youths in the NWSL, and looking at
Pamitha:I'm sorry. You say what? To youths? The My Cousin Vinny reference for for those of you.
Alli:I was thinking Schmidt from New York. Oh. Yeah. You. Anyway.
Pamitha:Got cookie, got your cookie.
Alli:We could go down a long, big rabbit hole with that one. So one thing I thought so having youths 18, I felt weird saying kids. Kids under 18 in the NWSL is a relatively new thing. So back in 2021 was when Olivia Moultrie sued the NWSL over its requirement that you have to be 18 to play. And so at that stage, the league ended up phasing out that rule, then they introduced mechanisms to sign under 18 players, and that's led to this influx of youths.
Alli:So looking looking at some numbers since 2021, there are 24 players who have signed while under the age of 18. Some of those players haven't actually played under the age of 18, like they signed when they were 17. And by the time the season started, they were 18, but they still, you know, took advantage of that mechanism. And we have the youngest player so far to sign is Mac Whitman at age 13. And so I just wanted to share some numbers and some kind of stories from this, because there's also some news that broke last week about a new development mechanism that the yeah.
Alli:NWSL is supposedly enacting right now. So first off, 24 players under 18. Of those, I will I will ask my fellow podcasters here. How many of those do you think are actively playing for an NWSL club?
Pamitha:$1.
Gurushabd:I was gonna say probably less than half.
Alli:You know what? Was assuming that it was gonna be a pretty small number too, but actually 19 of them have played minutes for an NWSL club this season, and two are on NWSL clubs but haven't gotten minutes. So in some cases, that's and like I don't know the stories for all these people, but Zoe Matthews for Orlando Pride has played twenty four minutes. So not a lot, but has gotten some minutes. There is one player who was originally signed in the NWSL, but now plays in South Korea.
Alli:That's Casey Fair, who also plays for the South Korean national team. And there are two players who signed under 18 who are down in the USL now. I say down. It's the same level technically as the NWSL, but watching them play is different. And that's Mac Mac Whitman.
Alli:Yes. Mac Whitman, sorry, who was loaned from Gotham to DC Power, and Melia Brewer, who was playing for Dallas Trinity. So that's actually like just looking overall sort of more positive than I expected it to be. I expected more people to have fallen off the radar.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's that's that's remarkable. I genuinely am surprised that the 19 out of 24 played minutes in the for an Abyssal club, It's shocking.
Alli:Yeah. And and in this season.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's even that's even wilder. Right? Like in such a small sample size that players this young are getting an opportunity to compete at the highest level in the world, arguably the highest level in the world. That's amazing.
Pamitha:And the fact that they get continue to get minutes means that they're this isn't just like garbage time substitutions, right? Like this is Right. Right? Where do you go?
Alli:Think it depends. No, no, I think I think there there's it's kind of across the spectrum. And I'll say, I also felt like when this first happened, I thought, you know, this is great that players have an opportunity to go professional young, and I'm gonna, for the purpose of this conversation, take out, like, the safety aspect of it in terms of, like, is that the right thing in terms of the NWSL has had some bad coaches? How do we make sure that we're, you know, not putting kids in those situations? But for the purpose of this conversation, I'm talking about player development, because that is a very large concern of mine.
Alli:But from player development, you think, is it really good for 14 year olds to be playing with adults? What is a growing body need for training versus an adult body? And what about changes in coaching and consistency and all of these things? So but I do think to what Pammatha just said, there's a range. So you have players like, you know, Olivia Moultrie, who started it all.
Alli:And, you know, in 2021, she had about two seventy minutes that she played. By 2025, she was playing over two thousand minutes. And then, you know, this season, she's was having a huge impact for Portland until she got injured. So that's clearly benefited her, and she has grown throughout the years. But then you also have players like Chloe Ricketts, who signed with the Washington Spirit when she was 15.
Alli:And she kinda very quickly became a fan favorite. But she saw in 2023, she had almost three hundred minutes. And in 2024, that dropped to about twenty minutes. She had some more time that she saw in 2025 and then was traded to Boston. And she's been recovering from an injury there.
Alli:But it felt like watching her over the years that she kind of struggled from a lot of changes in coaching that maybe that didn't really benefit her. And then the last player I wanted to mention, and I actually don't know if this is a good or a bad thing, Malia Brewer, who I mentioned is now playing for Dallas Trinity. So she is she signed with Kansas City at 16 years old. She trained with the Kansas City Current. She was part of the US Youth National Team.
Alli:She played for a year at UCLA, but basically, like, skipped two years. So she played as a 16 year old. She's only 17 now. But she signed with Kansas City for three years, and then we never saw her play except in the teal rising tournament. And then they ended her contract, and now she's playing in the USL.
Alli:And it seems like, at first glance, that that, like, something went wrong. Like, why wasn't she getting time with, you know, if she's that good, why wasn't she getting time on the field with the current? I don't know the story there. But, you know, I I don't know if that is something that has been good for her career or bad. So
Gurushabd:Yeah. Think that'll be an interesting one to watch.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yet another young player's career impacted by Vlotko and
Alli:Natsuki. No.
Gurushabd:But I yeah. I think because she's just 17 now. Right. So her yeah. We don't know, you know, if when she'll return to the NWSL or play, but it sounds like, yeah, for her, maybe that was the best course.
Gurushabd:Right. For her to maybe get more playing time or just a different level of competition
Alli:Right.
Gurushabd:That she could handle a little better. So I'll be interested to watch her.
Alli:Yeah. Me too. Because that's also what I wonder is, oh, was it, like, you're, you know, you're great, but not quite ready to be playing against people two and three times your age? Well, I mean or, you know, at a higher level, so bring it down a notch, which would be the USL.
Gurushabd:And haven't some other players been loaned out from the NWSL to the USL for a season and then come back?
Pamitha:Mhmm.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So stronger and as a starter.
Alli:Yes. And and we saw that with some of the the older young players, but like Sam Meza Right. And Deb Abadun Abadun oh my gosh. Abadun?
Pamitha:Abadun.
Alli:Abadun. Sorry. Who went down to the USL and then came back and have made huge impacts on their team. Abiodun? So Abiodun, that's right.
Alli:Thanks. Sorry. She's injured now, and so we don't get to yell her name every every game. Mhmm. But the reason that this sort of all that I bring this all up is because about a week ago, Jeff Passouf, one of the ESPN soccer reporters, reported that the NWSL has a new player develop mechanism.
Alli:And this new mechanism will allow teams to identify youth players, they said as low as U15, who they could sign in the future to contracts that would not fully count against the salary cap. So apparently, this rule is already in place, and teams have begun using this system. But NWSL hasn't actually announced it, so everybody that he interviewed for his article was off the record. So basically, what this does is this rule lets teams register a player, and then they create a player development plan. And the team has to have, like, a minimum number of contact hours with the player, and that can include the player training with the NWSL club.
Alli:But it also says it must include competitive games with their club. So, like, they're, you know, training with the spirit, but also playing with their club. And it says, provided that the NWSL team pays all her development costs and has some oversight of training and games. So I think that's interesting. They have to invest monetarily in the player.
Alli:I don't know how that oversight of training and games works, but I like that. And then they say after two years and over two hundred hours of qualifying oversight, a team can then sign the player, and in that case, they receive a big amount of salary cap relief as a reward for developing her. Or if another NWSL team signs the player, then they still get some salary cap relief for developing the player. So from what I saw him reporting oh, yeah. Go ahead.
Gurushabd:Oh, so the player, if they get signed and are developing with their club, are they getting paid in that time period, or they have to wait?
Alli:I don't think they're getting paid. No. Oh, no. They they're not. So it's set oh, sorry.
Alli:Go ahead.
Pamitha:Well, I was gonna say, I don't know if they're getting paid, but it looks like their costs are being Right. Yeah.
Alli:Yeah. So so it says the yeah. So their their costs are being covered. It says they maintain their amateur status, which I think means they can't be paid.
Gurushabd:Probably. Especially if they
Pamitha:I mean, who knows?
Gurushabd:But they're being invested
Alli:in. They're being invested in. And it says they maintain their amateur status and their NCAA eligibility, And they can train with the NWSL teams, but they can't appear in matches. So to me, this at first glance, and maybe without actually the league confirming these details, it seems to me like a good way to introduce players to the league without, you know, dropping them in completely if they're not actually quite ready yet. You know, I know teams have players trained with them at young ages, but now having a more a better mechanism to more do more immersive training with them, not just at the NWSL club, but with their club team and with players their age, and then have teams benefit from that monetarily.
Alli:I I kinda like that. So I'm curious what you guys think and hope we hear some more on it soon.
Gurushabd:Yeah. My first thought is I like it. I love it. They can still retain their NCAA eligibility if they want to go to college or if they decide that, yeah, they're not ready to go pro yet. They need a few more times in college.
Gurushabd:And that'll also give them a pathway like you are being scouted. You could have a future in soccer, which if I was that age, I would take.
Alli:Oh, yeah. Thousand
Gurushabd:percent. People are always like, oh, athletes, they should go to college first. I was like, sports are hard on your body. If you can go pro as soon as you can and you're ready for it, I think it's a good thing to do.
Alli:Yeah. Parmatha has been, arguing that point for a long time as well.
Pamitha:I like it. I love it.
Alli:I want some
Pamitha:more of it. Yeah. I I've I've been taking I've been taking some flack in certain, circles for having that perspective. I think people have pushed back and said, oh, well, I mean, you you know, what if you need a fallback career? And I said, well, yes, then you can go back to college.
Pamitha:Like, you can Mhmm. Why would you reduce the maximum amount of earning potential you can being a professional athlete for some arbitrary degree that you're not gonna use anyway, like, I I mean, okay, I don't mean to be so flippant, but like the the value of collegiate sports and the value of college education is amazing, but that they don't do they don't do it in any other country. College athlete, college athletics in any other country is nothing like what is happening in The US, because in The US it's focused on profit generation. Yeah. I will say well, just this is also a really interesting competitive advantage for the NWSL over other professional women's leagues.
Pamitha:Right? So these younger players in The US, if they didn't have a pathway into the NWSL because there there was disincentives or barriers for them to sign contracts with NWSL clubs. It's possible that they could go overseas to Europe or South America. Right? But now, they don't have to.
Pamitha:They can stay here. And I think international players can also take advantage of this. Right? And so it's I think it is a market signal to leagues like the Women's Super League that the NWSL is taking player development seriously.
Gurushabd:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The international is gonna be my next question. Can players from other countries come here and take advantage of this?
Alli:So I did not see that mentioned in the article, and I don't know if Okay. Again, since the NWSL hasn't officially announced this, this was just reported anonymously to him, I don't know. The other question I have is, it says, you know, two years and two hundred hours of oversight before the players can then be not drafted, signed. But if, say, you draft nope. Not draft.
Alli:Say you sign a 17 year old to this player development thing, and then decide within a year that they're ready to join the league. Can you, like, nullify the player development and say, never mind, we wanna sign you now, and then they just don't get the salary cap relief? Or is it, you know, kinda one or the other? I don't know. Maybe.
Alli:Yeah. I'm intrigued how this works, and especially since it's not like The US is set up to, you know, quickly and easily set up academies because they already have the structure in place like they do in Europe. You know, it's like not like there's an easy way to make a change to the system. So yeah, we'll see
Pamitha:That's and assuming that the academy structure is the right structure in the first Sure, place,
Alli:yes. And I guess, sorry, go ahead.
Pamitha:No, feel like something we've been saying here for a while is that the NWSL and women's soccer broadly does not just need to copy and paste what the men's soccer is doing. Right? Yeah. And I think this is another really great example. Like, this is this is a policy that is really good for players.
Pamitha:Right? And I don't know if you could say the same thing for academies, and you certainly can't say things say that for the way that the end of the show used to do it. Right? So if you think about the way other professional sports in this country handle player selection, it is definitely not in favor of players. So this I think this is really cool.
Pamitha:Yeah. Very forward thinking. Really, really cool.
Alli:Yeah. So hopefully, I guess we'll see the next step would be to have the NWSL actually announce this and provide more details. So Yeah. We'll see when that happens.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah.
Gurushabd:Okay. I really hope this is or becomes open to international players.
Pamitha:What do you all think?
Gurushabd:That's what I'd like to see.
Pamitha:Yeah. Tell us what you think. Leave a comment, send us a note, tag us in an Instagram post. Well, is another employer in the NWSL just around the corner, at least one that has now been officially announced. I don't know if you guys have seen this, but Hotlanta is joining the ranks of US cities that are home to NWSL teams.
Pamitha:Atlanta City Football Club.
Gurushabd:Oh, not Angel City FC? No. Yeah. Atlanta City FC.
Pamitha:This is ace ACFC two?
Gurushabd:Yes. Yeah.
Alli:Yeah. I believe a t l c t y, which I'm not sure how to yell from the stands. It's Adelkutta.
Pamitha:Adelkutta. Adelkutta. Yeah.
Alli:I have to say, so when I first saw the Instagram post, I thought, great colors, cool logo, and I didn't even notice the name. Like, totally missed the name. And I thought, oh, great job. And then I went back and realized that I don't really like the name, but I thought the other parts were good.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:Well,
Gurushabd:the listeners have been great. We have gotten some feedback on our Instagram. And yeah, no one is fond of the name, but everyone loves the logo. But we have had some people chime in.
Alli:Love
Pamitha:it. Feel very strongly about sports aesthetics. I've I have I have always felt very strongly about sports aesthetics. I think there are things that Atlanta did very right here, and I think there are things that they could have done better. So if you have not been following that there are four distinct color selections that represent the city.
Pamitha:Atlanta red for determination resilience, Georgia peach for warmth and community, and also symbolic peaches in Georgia. Platinum metallic, this is related to business and the music industry and platinum records. And black char, which is a nod to the ability of the city to, persevere and really rise from a very the very literal ashes following the American Civil War in which Atlanta was burned to the ground. When I first saw the logo, I said, well, it's a little on the nose, the phoenix literally, like, rising from the ashes, but it was better than the NHL expansion team, the Atlanta Flames, which was a direct nod to the to Atlanta being burned to the ground during the civil war. I also would like to point out that the font looks very similar to the Atlanta Hawks, or at least a version of the Atlanta Hawks logo, as is that sort of like internal red like red circle.
Alli:Excuse me, Atlanta Hawks is An NBA. Other oh, okay. That's basketball.
Gurushabd:NBA. Shout out to Jason Terry.
Pamitha:There we go.
Alli:Oh, I love Jason Terry.
Pamitha:Jason the Jet.
Gurushabd:He was a Wildcat.
Alli:I did not know that. Back in the day I had my face I
Gurushabd:had the biggest crush on him.
Alli:Love it.
Pamitha:And he's a good looking dude, and a heck of a shooter. I I personally, I love the color scheme. I'm not wild about the Phoenix logo. The dogwood flower crest is beautiful. I love that.
Pamitha:I think that's great. But it just feels like a little bit too This is something that I would see on an Instagram post. Like, done by someone who is like trying to, you know, refresh an image. For this to be like the initial logo of a team, it just doesn't feel as like serious to me. But it I will say, credit because it does speak the identity, I love that.
Pamitha:And there are some really exciting color elements, and some really exciting stylistic choices, like the again, the dogwood flower, you know, the a, like, very prominently in the center of the phoenix, but I don't know. We'll see. Then, of course,
Gurushabd:the I like the logo, but them trying to assign a meaning towards every little thing in the pattern, was like, this is a lot.
Pamitha:I don't know.
Alli:I love it. Stretch.
Gurushabd:They're like, chevron pattern represents something, and it's like, okay.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm okay with that.
Pamitha:But I understand what you're saying. It can be a little it can be much if it isn't, like, done, like nailed, but like, I don't know. I I like it. The name however, needs work. I everyone can agree
Gurushabd:it's boring. We already have ACFC.
Pamitha:I give Gotham a hard time because they call themselves Gotham and that's not a real city. But even that's respectfully better than Atlanta City FC. It's it's it's a name created from the Department of Redundancy Department. Anyway, Atlanta FC. Another thing, weigh in.
Pamitha:What do you all think?
Gurushabd:Yeah. I think they should have been the Atlanta Outcast because that's one of my favorite rap groups.
Pamitha:Oh. That would
Alli:have been fun. Atlanta Outcast.
Pamitha:That would have been good.
Alli:I just think it's hard to cheer. Go, Atlanta City. I guess you could say go city. But then that, I don't know. Anyway, good
Pamitha:job branding.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Their supporters group will not have a lot to work with.
Pamitha:Oh my god. Oh my god. I I wish they were
Gurushabd:They need to get creative.
Pamitha:I wish they were ludicrous FC. That's Loud up. That that's that would have been so good. I So I lived in Atlanta for a very short period of time, and Atlanta has a has a really bad reputation as a sports town. The they can be really fickle in what in what they follow.
Pamitha:But Atlanta has such a rich culture, and I I it would be so great to see that, like, people in that city turn out for this team. I, like I'm excited. I'm more I'm more excited to see what Atlanta City FC does in 2020 than I am for the unnamed Columbus team.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:So we'll see.
Gurushabd:I just hope you can buy grits and greens at their stadium.
Alli:Oh, delicious. Oh, amazing. I I also think they've done a great job in marketing, and we talked about during the men's World Cup that they were out talking about the women's team, and I'm excited to see how that how that unfolds for them.
Gurushabd:Okay. Yeah. The other team is coming out of Ohio is Columbus. Yeah. And they have not announced their name yet.
Gurushabd:So maybe they'll be Columbus City FC, c CCFC.
Pamitha:Even CCFC is better than a ACFC too. You know?
Gurushabd:I hope they come out with something else.
Pamitha:Yeah. So the Columbus crew, I think, was founding Major League Soccer team, and their colors are black and yellow. And I saw, like, the placeholder colors for the Columbus women's team is also black and yellow. Really hope they don't do that. Yeah.
Pamitha:Although, if they do do black and yellow, then maybe Washington gets their act together and moves away from our black and yellow, but you know.
Alli:That's true. I don't know, we're at in I think we're going for the green.
Pamitha:I don't know what our identity is.
Alli:I have no idea.
Pamitha:Yeah. What's a spirit? Is it booze? Is
Alli:it ghosts? Ghosts? So many, so many options. Oh, Washington's
Gurushabd:All of like spirit, like cheerleaders, and colorful.
Pamitha:Yes. We are an attitude. The Washington attitude. That actually would be pretty cool, dude. The Washington attitude.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah. My bad.
Pamitha:Get on it.
Gurushabd:Maybe Columbus can No. Steal
Alli:No. The Columbus attitude? That sounds the Columbus attitude sounds horrible. That's not what we want.
Gurushabd:The The Columbus Columbos.
Pamitha:They just have one more question every time they play.
Alli:If anybody would like to have another four hour conversation on the spirit, let me know. Just briefly covered my thoughts.
Gurushabd:We're gonna have to have, like, a group therapy separate podcast. Yes. Where people can just vent about their team.
Pamitha:Maybe we should definitely do an after the season group therapy podcast. We can invite Yeah. A whole bunch of people
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:And just sort of decompress about our season. Cool. Oh, I love having the band back together.
Alli:Is great. So fun.
Pamitha:So fun. Thank you. Guruschabad, where can folks find us on social?
Gurushabd:You can find us on Instagram and TikTok in blue sky at Laces Out Loud.
Pamitha:And, of course, if you wanna reach us, you can email us at LacesOutLoudpod@Gmail.com. That is LacesOutLoudpod@Gmail.com. Well, guys, I guess we'll do this again next week.
Alli:I think so. It's a date.
Pamitha:I love it. Alright. Good or shall I take us out?
Gurushabd:Okay. Everyone be good, be kind to each other, and from the fans for the game, we'll see you next time on Laces Out Loud.