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Every golfer has stood over a putt and guessed. Erik Belgum learned to ask one question instead: where does the water go?
In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Erik Belgum — a design associate with Billy Fuller and Tom Kite, and right now he's elbow-deep in the dirt at Otter Creek in Columbus, Indiana — a Robert Trent Jones original being reimagined into cradle-to-grave golf. He walks Matt and the Professor through the parts of course design nobody romanticizes: the AutoCAD, the budgets, the order of operations, and the moment a green gets approved before it's actually ready.
The conversation dives into:
- How a kid pulling a cobwebbed pull cart in Iowa City ended up self-taught at Atlanta's Bobby Jones muni — on a $300 junior pass, with a five-questions-a-day limit from the pro shop
- The church pew that changed his life: ending up in a congregation with two working golf architects, Bob Cupp and Billy Fuller
- The real story of the Billy Bunker — how a highway shoulder, a McDonald's playground, and Dow Chemical turned into the industry standard
- The Cayman ball: the McGregor experiment Jack Nicklaus commissioned to make 5,000 yards play like 7,000, and the 13 dozen Erik inherited from his mentor
- Why constraint breeds creativity — bunkerless greens at Setting Down Creek, and slope as strategy at Otter Creek
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💼 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-belgum-2a587874/
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Chapters
00:00 Cold open: back to loving chipping
00:35 Bermuda vs. bent — reading lies and no margin for error
05:48 Setting up the episode: who Erik is and why now
06:14 Fact of the week: reading before bed and the science of winding down
11:05 Partner: Titleist GTS — what the Professor got fit into
12:24 Erik joins; Otter Creek, Columbus, and the J. Irwin Miller / Cummins story
16:08 Cradle-to-grave golf: the Romp, the Pup, and the championship Otter
19:26 The unromantic side of design: AutoCAD, budgets, order of operations
21:37 Origin story: his dad, Iowa City, and a cobwebbed pull cart
24:24 A $300 junior pass and learning the game at Bobby Jones
25:50 Cart kid, the starter's nightmare tee, and "five questions a day"
26:50 The church mentors: Bob Cupp and Billy Fuller
30:34 Choosing landscape architecture; UGA, fall of 2007
33:00 His own game today: letting go of score, old equipment
35:14 What is a Cayman ball?
43:00 Inheriting 13 dozen Cayman balls from Bob Cupp
40:30 Billy Fuller's agronomy pedigree and his years at Augusta National
46:45 How the Billy Bunker was actually invented
51:38 Lessons learned: the green he approved too soon
56:42 Where does the water go — infrastructure as strategy
59:31 Setting Down Creek and how constraint breeds creativity
01:02:24 Favorite courses: Cuscawilla, Old Barnwell, North Berwick, Sunningdale
01:07:57 What success at Otter Creek looks like in a year
What is The Bag Drop?
The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.
What is NewClub?
Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.
Creators and Guests
Host
Matt Considine
Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.
Host
The Professor
NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.
What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?
Weekly stories from the communities and characters shaping the game. The Bag Drop blends thoughtful, honest perspectives of Matt Considine (Founder of NewClub) and Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") with expert insights for passionate golfers at every level. Produced by NewClub and supported by our members, each episode welcomes guests from clubs, courses, and the lesser-known corners of the golf world for thoughtful discussions on all things golf and life.
Founded in 2017, NewClub is the first of its kind golf society in the United States; blending the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability more typical of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, along with signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is on a mission to revolutionize golf membership, making the game more meaningful for everyone who loves it.
Listen, rate, review, and subscribe to The Bag Drop:
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Website: https://www.newclub.golf
Matt Considine (00:05)
Welcome to the Bag Drop, Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine here with our co-host, the Professor, Dr. Kevin Moore. Top of the morning, Professor, how are you?
The Professor (00:15)
I'm doing great 'cause I'm back to loving chipping. It's been, you know, decades long, you know, absence yesterday just chipping around our practice green. Not because I needed to work on anything or whatever, just 'cause I was just loving it again. Like it's just it's just fun.
Matt Considine (00:18)
Yes.
It's a chipping's a funny thing 'cause I I I don't know, would you have regarded yourself as a in your life?
The Professor (00:36)
Back in
college and high school, it's one of the only reasons I probably ever got to play competitively was was the chip chipping. back then. That yeah, I don't know if I'd have broke ninety most rounds in college if I had kinda get it up and down. but I tell you what, once I moved away from that bent grass exp and got down this Bermuda, it it's been just d not a love hate relationship, a peer hate relationship for a long time now.
Matt Considine (00:41)
He got up and down a lot. He got up and down a lot.
Yeah, i it's a different skill set chipping in Bermuda rough. you gotta read the lies more than than we do up north for sure.
The Professor (01:07)
Y
yeah, no little bit of moisture in the air, either through humidity or rain, you just no no margins. Verse up north it's just like, Well, just hit it anywhere near the ball and it's gonna kinda come out and do what it needs to do.
Matt Considine (01:19)
I had the the pleasure this week of playing one of both of our favorite golf courses anywhere. and those greens, ton of movement. I was missing a good amount of greens. I also consider myself to be a pretty dangerous chipper, but I I lost it and it was a fresh cut. You know, it it in northeast Ohio, all through the Midwest.
The Professor (01:27)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (01:39)
The fresh cut, honestly, it was standing straight up. And for Ben Grass, even though it's stand straight up, I mean the ball was going down. I chipped terribly all day. And and obviously those greens add a little bit of nerves to any wedge shot or any chip that you're gonna hit into them. But but yeah, it was it was pretty pretty disappointing. It's one of those days where you look back and you're like, Man, if there was a day that I could have got to the golf.
The Professor (01:53)
yeah.
Matt Considine (02:05)
course a little before I went I might have been better off. But I went straight to the first T as I often do and and paid for it in that regard. But it's golf season, baby. People are playing. It's it's it's what a w what a wonderful time of year.
well, you you booked us a great guest today. I'm super pumped to talk to this gentleman. I talked to him years ago, I I believe for you know when new club was coming to Georgia. But Eric Belgium is coming on and a friend of yours, excellent guest, I think to have on right now. You know, we were talking on this show not that long ago about how many
How many clubs and courses are either coming out of their shutdown, reopening to member and guest play, or, you know, they just approved the plans and are trying to schedule their their realizing the biggest asset they got is this, is their golf course, you know, problem with deferred maintenance and things that need to be
The Professor (02:52)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (02:56)
Touched up. So Eric is very close to all that have him on. He's with Billy Fuller, golf design, Kitan Fuller design, and has done you know renovation work mo mostly throughout the southeast, but a little bit I think we're catching him in the Midwest right now. but but he's worked at some awesome places, Dothan Country Club, Kalawasi, Decatur, and and Otter Creek. So just
we always love the golf architecture conversations on here, but I like I like when it gets a little closer to the dirt in the ground.
The Professor (03:25)
Well selfishly I always I think my episodes I enjoy the most was when it's someone like that that's also a friend. you know, Eric is one of the more pleasurable people you'll ever get to share a golf round with in terms game. And he's got a little bit of like Thomas Shelby in him in that when when he
Very like there's an efficiency to the way he talks. Every word and phrase coming out of his mouth matters and like has some sort of knowledge why is the green like that and what's going on? Okay, the back to the green's up here, the front of the green's here, here's the issues here, what you can design, how water has to flow.
Matt Considine (03:57)
I'm I'm excited. I respect when people have that like, here's what you need and nothing you don't. Not my skill set, professor, but I'll I'll try to pick some stuff up from Eric today. before what about a fact this week? What do you got for us, Teach?
The Professor (04:11)
What's your what's your current bedtime routine? You know, as a as someone with three kids and Like what's do you do you even have a bedtime routine other than hoping to get to bed by a certain time right at at night?
Matt Considine (04:23)
Yeah, like just visualize, you know, somebody basically any parent of three kids or one kid even under the age of five, you're the hours of five to whenever the heck it is their heads hit the pillow is just chaos. So just imagine, you know, two parents putting black chalk under their eyes, suiting up for game day like it's it is not quiet. It is loud and insane.
and then then you gotta start to wind yourself down. So I feel like I used to in the evenings. I I can't do it anymore. it just doesn't doesn't work. you can't go back, you're gonna ruin you know the next day getting kids up and ready. But but yeah, it's it's mostly just trying to manage through the chaos.
The Professor (04:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a perfect segue in terms of how do you wind yourself down. I've been getting back into reading before bed. And man, I'm just blown away by how It had is just I won't share anything about it. Like, go read it.
Matt Considine (05:16)
Yes.
The Professor (05:23)
It is it's a stuff of like you you're like, this is. But anyways, reading before you go to bed is one of the best things you can do in terms of winding yourself down, right? one, it cuts out blue light on your iPad or anything that's a blue light emitter. Physical book is the best. E Ink's probably maybe just as good.
You're still on a protocol is get ready for bed beforehand, you know, brush your teeth, do all those things. Soft lighting coming from over the also okay. And what all this does is, you know, one, it distracts your mind from just what went on during that day.
Matt Considine (05:51)
Hm.
The Professor (05:56)
way or what's going on the next day. So get your minds off of off of that and lowers your cognitive arousal in easing your muscles, right? So it's relaxing those and naturally lowering your heart rate to its resting heart rate by doing that, by just being comfortable in a p in the position that you're reading. In fact they've some studies suggest this is as like useful as thirty minutes
thirty minutes of reading is useful as a entire yoga Yeah. So and then that has go ahead.
Matt Considine (06:21)
Yeah, people
no, people just don't read. I I saw a stat how books and and people are are are just not reading. It's it's terrible. But it I'm pushing myself. I'm glad you're sharing this because it's so easy it does it?
The Professor (06:35)
Yeah, and those like, yeah, the show a show might get you the fall asleep and help you fall asleep, but you're really throwing off all your deeper restorative stages of sleep when you do that. You're just book, even if it's five to ten minutes, they say like even if it's just one page, just make sure you do that and like it helps sort of separate the day to sleep.
and lets you
Matt Considine (06:54)
for for what we do sometimes, Professor, in our deep dives. Now it's it's it's it's I gotta get some of these books done. what about Maybe somebody's listening to us right now. Let's lull them to sleep and make sure no.
let's get to our guests. We got a great one today. I'm I'm looking forward to to chatting with them. Thank before we do, this episode of the Bag Drop is in partnership with Titleist and their all new GTS class of drivers. The GTS two, the GTS three, the GTS four. Professor, what did you get fit into with the GTS this year?
The Professor (07:10)
Yep, everything.
So I got the three on the driver, I got the two on the three wood, and then I've got the three on the seven wood, twenty-one degree. And man, whew I was just playing with a couple guys who hadn't seen them yet. They grabbed the three wood, put it down, and And I have to say, since I put them in the bag, how I'm thinking off the tee. So much more aggressive, like just
Matt Considine (07:46)
and GTS fell. but I was so blown away with the strides they made with GT and the claims of GTS I thought were a little like, really? And and now I'm saying really. so go check out GTS, the new class of drivers and metalwoods from Titleist over at Titleist dot com. Professor, let's get on to the show.
The Professor (07:54)
Mm. Right. Yep.
Matt Considine (08:06)
Eric Belgium, welcome to the Bag Drop, my friend.
Erik Belgum (08:11)
Thank you. Thank you guys for having me.
Matt Considine (08:13)
And we're fine in ya in the Midwest right now, aren't we?
Erik Belgum (08:17)
Yeah, that's right. today I'm talking to you from Columbus, Indiana, which is where Fuller and Tom Kite on the renovation, sort of reimagining of Otter Creek golf course. Not sure if you're familiar with that golf course, ever played it. Either you?
The Professor (08:35)
I feel Columbus brings a rings a bell. There happened to be a truck company out of Cl engine company out of Columbus. Is that their
Erik Belgum (08:42)
Cummins Engines.
So yeah, it's a it's a big presence in this town, the Cummins Engines, and actually it's tied into Otter Creek Golf Course and the history of that project. The
Matt Considine (08:43)
yeah.
Erik Belgum (08:58)
Columbus area wouldn't really exist today without Cummins engines and a man named Jay Irwin Miller, who was the I think president of Cummins and chairman of the board. And he loved architecture, building architecture specifically. Loved modern, postmodern design and buildings. And so the way I understand it is he went to
the city of Columbus at one point and said, you know, from here forward, if you are building a new public building or a church, you know, communal civic building, and you'll pick from my Harry Wees, these great architects, I'll pay for the design fee and you guys can pay for the construction. So Columbus is pretty famous in the architecture world for
you know, buildings that they c people come from far around to see that to tour these buildings, you know, police stations. The jail is nice, you know, the the courthouse building, several beautiful churches. And he Mr. Miller extended that to the golf course in town. He said, you know, if my employees are gonna live here and be part of this community, I want them to have a good place to recreate. great schools,
And so in nineteen early sixties he hired the biggest name of the day, Robert Trent Jones, to identify a piece of land and build a seventy-two hundred yard golf course in nineteen sixty-four.
The Professor (10:22)
Oof.
Matt Considine (10:23)
Ooh.
Erik Belgum (10:25)
And so Otter Creek came out of the gates with some teeth and and hosted for a while, it was the like permanent home of the Indiana State Amateur. history. they added nine holes. Reese Jones company added nice nine holes in the nineties, so it was a 27-hole facility.
Matt Considine (10:29)
Yeah.
Erik Belgum (10:44)
For a while, owned by the city, operated by the city. And so that's where I am today working on that one with like I said, Billy Fuller and Tom Kite. And the owner whose house I'm actually staying at this week, man named Bob Haddad, bought it from the city. the city was looking to offload it because it wasn't making them any money. But they he bought it on the condition that it stay public and that he invest in the golf course.
So his investment when we got the RFP for the design proposal, he wanted to kind of think this concept of cradle to grave holes for you know, people that don't hit the ball very far but still have fun, and they can kind of graduate up levels to the the big course. And then as you get older,
Can kind of come back down to the shorter holes if you if you'd like to. So we are currently the scope of the project is 18 holes, you know, renovating area. moved the driving range, built three new holes last year, and converting part of the
R3 course called the ROMP. So the ROMP is a group of otters, and that's a name for a group of otters. Sticking with the thing.
The Professor (11:55)
Love it.
Matt Considine (11:55)
There there's your fun fact
today, Professor. I didn't know that. Romp? It's otters.
The Professor (11:57)
That's right. I d I did not know that. I'm
gonna use that. I'm gonna use that somehow today with the people I'm playing golf with. I'm gonna fit I'm gonna squeeze that in.
Matt Considine (12:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Erik Belgum (12:06)
Yeah, I think there's actually two words. A romp, I think, is a group of otters on land,
Matt Considine (12:10)
That's outside.
Erik Belgum (12:13)
And and then the so that's a p 13-hole Kite was kind of saying,
Let's try to do something like the what they've got over there, you know, in front of the hotel at Turnberry. You know, little little pitch and putt course, He's I think got close to a photographic memory. And the way he can recall famous golf
The Professor (12:22)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (12:30)
construction with Wadsworth And I just decided to come up here this week in between our regularly scheduled site visits. I saw the forecast, Matt, like you were talking about earlier, the beautiful dry weather w with the highs and the low eighties and I said I gotta come up here and and just
Check it out. It is.
Matt Considine (12:51)
Good place to be. Yeah.
that's awesome. You know, I I think Eric when we we've had a lot of different folks from the golf architecture world on the show. And I think a lot of us might hear golf course picture of Pete Dye, Robert Trent Jones, you know, whoever standing looking over the land with their sketchbook and some guys behind you know, hearing every word. But I imagine your job is
A lot less romantic than that a lot of days. what part of of what you do would surprise us as golfers?
Erik Belgum (13:18)
Yeah.
Well, I think a lot of you know, right now we're in the fun part at Otter Creek, right? We're we're playing in the dirt, we're figuring stuff out, you're seeing shapes come out of the ground, and everything you do before that is in service of getting to this point. So there's a lot of time you're you're working with your owner or your committee or whoever to give them what they're asking for understand what they're asking for. You know, at the end of the day a successful project is one that
not only is great golf architecture but serves the needs of the client. So you spend a lot of time listening, synthesizing what they're asking for, studying topo maps. I'm the the AutoCAD guy for Billy and for Billy and Tom. So there's lots of clicking, drawing, you know, reviewing, part of it comes developing budgets.
and understanding your quantities of disturbed area, you know, grass, the amount of grass you're gonna need to put back, the amount of dirt you're gonna need to move from here to there. And so the way that I've been trained with Billy, the way I've come up is not quite the Pete Dye model, where you know, Pete had the plans. The way I understand it, he had the plans and then
we do a little bit more calculation on the front end and I don't know if people really understand what that looks like or what that takes. but it's all in service to get to the fun part where you got the dozers moving and the scrapers moving dirt and the irrigation crews coming in and yeah that's
There's a lot that has to
The Professor (15:08)
Eric, I wanna rewind a little bit, and give the the listeners a little bit of your background. So let's start with how did you end up in the game of golf? You know, I one of the things that stands out to with me every time I play golf with you is like you seem to be someone that's been in love with the game for a long time, you understand the history of the game, you know, very thoughtful about it, talking either modern or historically architecture, whatever the topic is, you engage at a deep level. where did that come from? Just that sort of, hey, I'm gonna
I'm gonna love this game and and dive into it.
Erik Belgum (15:38)
Yeah, thank you for that question. That's I think it all starts with my dad. My dad played high school golf, grew up in Iowa City, Iowa, and he played on the high school golf And he was a pretty good player, not great, but when he moved to Atlanta he kinda put the clubs away and
didn't really take him out of the closet until I was maybe nine or ten years old when he was playing with one of his coworkers. And so my first experience on the golf course actually it's my grandfather's clubs, so it was like literally there were cobwebs on this aluminum or ste maybe a steel pole cart. And he let me caddy for him and hit a golf shot or two with his brother. And so when we
free labor.
Matt Considine (16:21)
Pull
pull carts are no joke. They're push carts, not the modern day push pull carts, you got you your sockets getting pulled out. Yeah.
Erik Belgum (16:25)
yeah.
The Professor (16:26)
You're tearing your shoulder, yep.
Erik Belgum (16:28)
was no efficiency in material, that thing was heavy. And I was nine or ten, yeah. So we got back to Atlanta and I ex you know, was kinda asking about golf clubs. You can when can we can I get some golf clubs can I'd like to go play and to to shorten this up, I ended up getting
The Professor (16:31)
Weighed more than you.
Erik Belgum (16:46)
XPC line, if you remember those golfsmith branded clubs. the the so I got some irons and I also got a pass, an annual pass to the City of Atlanta public golf courses. A junior pass at that time was $300 a year. So you could play all the golf you wanted except for before noon on the weekends. And so that first three hundred dollars, yeah.
The Professor (16:49)
I gotta look this up.
Wow. Three hundred dollars for the year. That's that's fantastic.
Erik Belgum (17:13)
So I was I would in the summers I was on the swim team at Garden Hills Pool and I would wake up in the morning get driven to swim practice. I would then be dropped off at the golf course, at Bobby Jones Golf Course in Atlanta, the original Bobby Jones.
The Professor (17:29)
Yeah, the OG, the eighteen holes you might get shrapnel from other other other holes in your fairway.
Erik Belgum (17:33)
Yes.
Yes.
You had and it smelled like sewage because this combined stor city storm sewer. I just thought that's what a golf course smelled like. But everybody I'd play with from out of kind of self taught
Got to the point in Little League Baseball where I was a little too afraid of standing in the batter's box when the kids could throw seventy and they didn't quite have the control. And I got hit a couple times and said, Let's try this and the ball can't hit me. I mean then you go back to Bobby Jones, you go back to Bobby Jones and the ball could hit you from somebody else.
The Professor (17:57)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (18:02)
Me, if it that's a motivator.
The Professor (18:08)
I was gonna
say, yeah, I the irony of Bobby Jones being the place to to play your golf.
Erik Belgum (18:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, so my dad ended up being the starter at Bobby Jones on Saturday mornings, which was a a horrible job because it was a 470-yard par open the routing. So you had a backup right away. You know? so his job was to kind of keep things light. When people would come down and see there were already eight
The Professor (18:26)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (18:32)
I couldn't spend enough time at that golf course. I c I w I lived there basically. And g and when I was first starting out, I would eat bring my lunch, eat at the clubhouse in between they're playing thirty six every day in the summer, and they quickly developed a rule for me, which is you are only allowed to ask five questions a day, kid. You know, y y you gotta leave us alone. We're we're running a shop here.
Gotta stop asking us questions. But I still go back to Bobby Jones, you know, they've they've changed it a lot. but so I started playing when I was 12 years old. My family changed churches, Lutheran. So we went from one church to another church, and the St. John's Lutheran and Druid Hills had zero golf course architects in the congregation, and the church we went to, Lutheran Church of the Redeemer.
in Midtown Atlanta had two golf course architects. And that was Bob Cup and Billy Fuller. And so right when I was starting to play golf, you know, made this change. My grandmother had gone out to Pebble that was way too big, and I wore it to church one day and I see this big guy with a big head of white hair kind of do a double take.
as I walked by him and and that was Bob Cup. So we were in the youth group together. And
kind of spent some time with him and Billy Fuller also at our church and pick their brains. You know, I remember I know I'm talking a lot here, but I know I remember we
Matt Considine (20:06)
You're good. No, keep going. I mean, that's
I love the circumstances of that, right? Like you you you just end up at a church with with two of the most prolific architects and where's it go from there?
The Professor (20:11)
Yeah.
Erik Belgum (20:17)
Yeah, and at the time they were working together. You know, I can tell you about Billy and Bob a little bit more later if you'd like, but they were working together and Student Center. The church was across the highway from Georgia Tech. And so like bowling, pool, dance dance revolution machine, you know.
The Professor (20:20)
Right.
Erik Belgum (20:39)
All the arcade games. And I see Bob Cup over there at the pool table playing by himself, dad kind of nudged me over and said, Go, go talk to him, go see if you can play pool with him. And he Bob said, Sure, you know, rack him. Let's let's go. And and I just start asking him a few questions, and this is probably 2002, and
The Professor (20:51)
Yeah.
Erik Belgum (21:04)
It was off to the races. You know, he was telling me how they'd already lost control of the golf ball. You know, the golf ball's going way too far. USGA doesn't really have control anymore. sharing stories about Augusta National, where he had been consulting architect from like nineteen eighty seven to ninety two or something like that. And yeah, so I d I just happened to go to church with these two guys that were golf architects, successful.
Golf architects, prolific, continue that forward, when it was time to choose a school or choose a profession, I was in high school, and I asked Bob, where do I go to study golf course architecture? Where do I go to major in that? And he said, Well, there's not really a major for golf course architecture. And I've since learned that Cornell has that kind of self-directed study program.
That Doak did and some others. But he said most people choose three routes. You can be a civil engineer, turf grass management, or landscape architecture. And so of the three, I grew up across the street from Georgia Tech. Like my parents both worked at Georgia Tech. A lot of the housing
The Professor (22:10)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (22:20)
all the time and they looked miserable. You know, these very smart engineering students did not look like they were having fun. turf grass management sounded interesting, but I really was drawn to landscape architecture.
the most of those three options. So I applied to UGA, the professor's you know employer, and they had at the time one of the top rated fall of 2007 and yeah it was great timing to start to try to become a golf course architect. It was fall of 2007 as your freshman year.
Matt Considine (22:56)
Perfect. What could go wrong?
Erik Belgum (22:57)
I went and toured the campus.
The Professor (22:58)
Yeah.
Erik Belgum (22:59)
Yeah, I went and toured the campus in the spring of 07 after I'd gotten in and we'd go up in the elevator at Caldwell Hall, the landscape architecture building. We had the top three floors. Top floor, we're gonna meet with the dean, my parents, and the doors know, I I made the right decision.
And then about a year later all that kinda went away and t all that blew up. But I you know, I played high school golf, played on my high school golf team, played some junior golf, and never thought I was gonna play in college because the guys on the team when I was there are still winning tournaments today.
The Professor (23:20)
All that all that blew up.
Erik Belgum (23:39)
Yeah, shout out Russell Henley. I think we're the same age. And the team was stacked, so I maybe could have been team manager, but had to give up the college golf dream. And yeah, so that's a long a long answer to your short question. But I played golf, happened to know these guys, and they set me on the path for study.
Matt Considine (24:02)
I gotta ask w when on the topic of your own golf game, 'cause there's a lot of people that listen to our show who are in the golf industry, don't get out to play as much as people anticipate. How's your game today, Eric? Are you you know do do do you care what you shoot when you're out there, or are you just thinking about other things?
Erik Belgum (24:20)
I I really have given up on caring a lot about score most of the time. I find that I play better when I don't care, when I when I don't tie my success to score. I used to be one of those people that tracked my score, you know, every hole. I knew where I stood. I would project out in tournaments. gosh, I've I'm one over through two, so if I keep this up, what does that mean? let that go. I do try to make time for golf. I brought my sticks up here.
Kevin, I brought the modern set because I have a tournament later that I need to get ready for. But like this week, staying with the owner who work a few days this week. Just beautiful golf course. Tim Liddy renovated it a few years ago and it's beautiful.
The Professor (24:51)
Okay.
Erik Belgum (25:06)
so this week's a little unusual that I'm playing and working at the same time on a site visit. I don't and practice once or twice a week. There's a cool little homemade golf course down south of my house, a Panola Mountain golf course.
We just call it the mountain or little mountain. And it's no tea times. It's fifty seven hundred yards. And it used to be that you had one price for paying cash. I think they've gotten rid of that, but the beauty of it is there are no tea times. So if you see it's gonna be a nice day, you can get your work done early or come back home and work late, you can just go
Matt Considine (25:33)
Yes.
Erik Belgum (25:46)
stretches that thing out, feels like seventy two hundred with the persimmons and the blades.
Matt Considine (25:50)
All right, I've I've heard this
the professors referenced this before. f for me and our listeners, what what is a came in ball?
Erik Belgum (25:57)
So the Cayman Ball was developed by McGregor. Jack went to McGregor and said, Give me a golf ball that
you hit it and you look up in front of you and it's still right in front of you. I mean it's kind of wild because you it has a limit of how far it can physically travel. And like all golf balls do, but it's really reduced.
The Professor (26:09)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (26:17)
And so I have one of those at my house that I have hit a few times and then I got I was out at Cuscawilla at the lake there, the core crenshaw course, and I hit it a little too close to some native grass and I said, I need to put this away in my pocket before I lose it.
The Professor (26:31)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (26:31)
Yeah. I I
have one that I've kept for this very reason because I I just didn't it's so odd. And I thank you th this is so funny to now realize what the heck I have.
Erik Belgum (26:42)
Yeah, so they they made some more later on, but they didn't do the express dimples. So they're just somehow they changed the core Yeah, so Bob Cub passed away from pancreatic cancer in twenty sixteen
Matt Considine (26:49)
Okay.
Erik Belgum (26:57)
Pam reached out and said, I'm cleaning up I'm cleaning out Bob's office. If you want to come by and take a look at anything and take anything you want, go ahead and so I got some books. I got some drafting supplies. Like I have Bob's horsehair brush that you used to brush off your eraser marks on their drafting table. I've got a scale, an architectural scale that says it was made in East Germany. So, you know, we're talking some old stuff.
And then at the books about Scotland, Pam said, Well, check in the driveway. I think there's some golf balls in the drive in the or in the garage. And I open up this cabinet, and there are 13 dozen unopened Cayman golf balls, you know, Cayman golf balls in these clear sleeves. Kevin, I've given you a couple sleeves of those. And
The Professor (27:46)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Erik Belgum (27:48)
It was like, holy cow, how how how many of these can I take? And she said, Well, take them all, I don't care. So I've got those and I use them sparingly, because there's a limited supply. But it's a really cool way to play a golf course if you use them and if you play a golf course you play a lot, and then you play these golf balls, it's like seeing your course for the first time in a different light. You know, like at Athens Country Club, Kevin, you know, if you play
Matt Considine (27:50)
Wow.
The Professor (28:13)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (28:18)
Kmans from the I don't even know what the T system is there, but the middle T's.
The Professor (28:23)
Yeah, like a like the 66, 6700 yard T, like where dri with modern it's driver wedge, you know, basically Kmans, it's like it just opens it up, right? Like hitting every club in the bag. The way you're bringing in approaches has changed now too. You know, it's a lower approach that's coming
know, a eight yard adjustment up. And with modern, it's, you know, driver, eight iron, all vertical the whole way. And with with the Cayman ball, it's like, well, I want patch or the green to get it into. It just opens up. You're like, okay, this is how it's supposed to play and how it was designed.
with the intent of the architect.
Erik Belgum (28:58)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (29:00)
I think we got a K-Ming classic that needs to be put on the books at at one of these establishments. Get get to it, fellas. I I I wanna ask about the And for those that don't know, Bob I is regarded as like one of the most renaissance or greatest renaissance men and he was
Erik Belgum (29:03)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (29:18)
d wasn't he a an artist, he was a author, he wa he served in the military, he did so many things and I couldn't imagine what the lessons and stories were from him, but but Billy Fuller, there's an agronomy pedigree for Billy Fuller, correct? Eric, could you maybe talk a little bit about that and
Erik Belgum (29:23)
Yes.
well, I I worked on maintenance staffs. Yes. So I worked on a couple of maintenance crews. let's talk about Billy for a second, because Billy
Billy's sort of, I won't say claim to fame, but the thing that sets him apart as an architect is his agronomy background. He was a superintendent for 15 years before transitioning to architecture. And so he he was kind of the guy in the 70s. He went to NC State, which is famous for their transition zone, you know, grasses where they can their northern climate
like, he had like a hundred job offers. That's how many golf courses were being built at that time and opened. And he started off in the Raleigh area, McGregor Downs, I believe, is in that Raleigh area. I had a PGA tour event at the time.
And then he So he was kind of the bentgrass guru guy, one of the first ones to bring bentgrass, you know, to Columbia, South Carolina and to Hilton Head, Turtle Point out there, Kiowa Island.
The Professor (30:35)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (30:41)
Palmetta Dunes. and all the time he was meeting golf course architects that were doing these projects. grow in a new golf course. You know, you're you're working long days, you're you know, with the old irrigation systems, I don't know how they did it, but he
The Professor (30:51)
Right.
Erik Belgum (31:00)
He he said he was a glutton for punishment. So he just loved working hard, getting grass grown in. He was one of those guys that wasn't a you know, penny loafers and you know, cat like slacks and button-down shirt superintendent. He was out there getting his hands dirty. I mean you gotta be during grow-in. And so when he did
The Professor (31:19)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (31:24)
and you know you doesn't warm up until late afternoon. So he worked with that that member from who owned Virginia Heating and Chemical.
I think sent down an engineer. And Billy said he stayed at his house. And so for three weeks, Billy taught that guy everything he knew about growing grass. And the engineer taught Billy everything he knew about running pipes underground with you know heating and cooling. And so they had it on I don't know what year that was, but they did that to you know.
The Professor (31:42)
Yeah.
Erik Belgum (31:55)
Take the t soil temperature of tw 12 green and it would be I'm making up numbers here, but let's just say 80 degrees. And then he'd go over to number eleven green and it'd be without the hydronics and it'd be 115 degrees in that soil. And but he was kind of a pioneer and very very curious mind, always was trying to
The Professor (32:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (32:18)
Think about how could that work from outside of golf work on golf. And while he was at Augusta, his name is a lot of people know Billy's name from the Billy Bunkers. That comes up a lot. And some people think it's a style they were rebuilding the bunkers every summer.
The Professor (32:29)
Right.
Erik Belgum (32:38)
Taking all the sand out and re-redoing it every summer, which was labor intensive. And he said there's gotta be a better way to do this. Those high flash slopes that you see on those you know, McKinsey Maxwell bunkers. I know they're not the original McKinsey bunkers, but those flash slopes that were there when he got there were washing out in a rainstorm. You they just that sand that sand would just r run right down the clay, the clay would contaminate the sand, and the guys would have to spend
The Professor (32:55)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Erik Belgum (33:05)
days shoveling it back up on the main maintenance crew. And those some of those bunkers are big. big. And so the story he told me was that he was driving down the road laid on the on the slope and it was one of the first geotextile fabrics.
The Professor (33:10)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (33:21)
Mm.
Erik Belgum (33:21)
That had
been developed that would allow water through but you know, you dig your drain lines in the bunker. You always had drain lines in your bunkers pretty much. And put that fabric over the whole face of the bunker on the clay, and then put the sand on top of that. And it reduced some of the washing. And
let it go, let the water go through the sand, through the fabric, and then go through something else before it hit the clay. And so he they did they did a gravel layer under that fabric. And so the contractors who would work at took that.
man named Jerry Lemons reached out to Billy about this there was this new s technology that Jerry Jerry's very curious guy too, golf course architect, has a background as a superintendent. And Jerry said, have you seen what they're doing with these
From rubber playgrounds, like McDonald's playgrounds, where they spray the glue and it holds the thing together and it's bouncy. I said, Do you think we could do that and hold a gravel layer together? You know, and and let the water go through the polymer and into the, know, holds the gravel together, keeps the sand bridging on top of the gravel so the sand doesn't go into the gravel and contaminate it.
The Professor (34:22)
Mm.
That's right.
Erik Belgum (34:36)
So they worked together with Dow Chemical to come up with a system, and the hardest thing they had to do is figure out how to pump glue through a spray nozzle. Because that's what it is. It's glue. So they they had to they had to figure out how to make that, the physics of that work, and that all became Billybunker. So the better the the better Billy Bunker is, excuse me, is what there is now. And that's basically the polymer that holds the
The Professor (34:47)
yeah.
Erik Belgum (35:05)
two inch gravel layer together. And to install it you have to be certified and like at Otter Creek we have a bunch of barrels of that polymer ready to go to to spray our buckers.
Matt Considine (35:16)
Wow. I
I just love how so many innovations come from observation of the world around you and not like, you know, head in a textbook understanding it d that's such a cool story. I've never heard it. but I've obviously heard Billy Bunker everywhere I've been and that's that's that's so cool.
Erik Belgum (35:24)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (35:37)
I was I was not prepared for the history lesson that we were gonna get this episode. no, this is this is awesome. I love like this is stuff I you never shared with me, you know, in the rounds that we've played together either. So I I'm sitting here learning as well, which is my favorite episodes. And and Eric on lessons learned, one the reasons I wanted to invite you on the podcast, especially, you know, being a sort of younger in the design world, is to ask you, you know, as someone that's younger in the design world, what's
Erik Belgum (35:41)
s yeah, sorry.
Matt Considine (35:42)
No, this is yeah.
The Professor (36:05)
Maybe a lesson or experience you had early in your career that was kind of an anchor moment or eye opener of like you just completely unexpected. Like, wow, I would have never thought of that because you've learned through such great people, through Cup and Billy and Tom, you know, what's something that maybe stands out as like, man, just completely unexpected, but now it's stuck with me that's gonna shape me as a designer forever.
Erik Belgum (36:29)
Hmm. Yeah, that's a good question. I'm racking my brain. I mean, the things that stick in my mind are more failures than, you know, I guess working, we were working at a golf course in Tennessee and slingshotting site visits. You know, Billy made most of the site visits. Some of them, most of them I was with him, but one I had to go up and do on my own. First time I ever had to do a site visit on my own.
The Professor (36:37)
Yeah. Perfect.
Erik Belgum (36:58)
And the I felt like there was pressure on me to approve things to keep things moving. You know, you go up and you make approvals where the contractor gets things to a certain stage so you can look at it and make sure that it you know it meets what you want, whether it's straight off the plan or some modified version of the plan, whatever fits the ground best. And I
approved something without the so approved a a green putting surface. So they had the grass the the greens mix of the putting surface at the slopes that you know were acceptable for the pinnable areas. I had checked them with the level and you know really sweated them and I was I'd been there enough times to know what we were looking for and what the we needed to make sure the contractor was hitting and I approved them to be sprigged.
with you know Bermuda sprigs, the shredded kind of grass that you put down on greens. And they hadn't got the sod around the perimeter of the go of the green first, which you need to because if you're gonna water those sprigs, they're throwing a lot of water. And so if you think about sand for the putting surface and then clay outside without any sod on it, well what's gonna happen when you water those sprigs? The water's gonna run off the green
The Professor (37:56)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (38:22)
And onto the clay and rut. And so I was like, I learned that I did something out of order. You know, it was it was a teaching moment for me, but the what stuck with me is that there's such an order of operations to how a golf course gets put together and a sequencing. And it's a lot to hold in your head. You internalize a lot of it over the years as you do more and more.
The Professor (38:24)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (38:47)
Just because you think you need to approve something doesn't mean that it's ready to be approved, you know?
The Professor (38:52)
Mm.
Matt Considine (38:52)
that's a good w that's a good lesson for anybody. I I love that line.
Erik Belgum (38:58)
So that that sticks that comes to mind.
I think some of the other things we're dealing with here at Otter Creek is we can design the coolest looking stuff that you've ever seen. But if they can't mow it or maintain it, then what do you it's not it's not gonna work. So really having dialogue and conversation with the superintendent, with the maintenance team, to understand, you know, hey, look, that shape's really cool. Can you mow that? What is it gonna take for you to mow that?
The Professor (39:16)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (39:33)
well that we can't do that, not with our mowers. We gotta we gotta soften that. We gotta we gotta make that a little bit shallower. And when you're designing in in clay, you know, you're trying to figure out where water's going all the time because it doesn't go through the ground with sand, you you're also always thinking about where does the water go? Because wherever the water goes, that's where the golf ball will also go, downhill.
The Professor (39:50)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (40:00)
That man, where does the water go is such a and I probably never would have added this to my just just golf game, that's called call it, if it weren't for golf architects like yourself that you know I've I've had the opportunity to play with and and chat with and conversations like this. Like you will become a much better golfer when you ask yourself that question and and actually play into different slopes and
Erik Belgum (40:00)
So those are kind of three lessons.
Matt Considine (40:27)
Reading pots, like where does the water go? And you'll also have a really it's probably one of the quickest ways to have an appreciation for what you guys do. And and more so the let's face it, like the the the less sexy side of of what we love about golf course architecture, right? The infrastructure and the drainage and that's I I did have a kind of a question for you on that, Eric, is just like I think we we think about strategy
Erik Belgum (40:28)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (40:55)
so much and I know the professor's exceptional at this is thinking about golf course architecture as strategy and how you how you approach it, what the architect's asking us, but how does infrastructure, what what I just mentioned, play into that strategy? Like how how does it like in and maybe it has to do with the order of operations, my question, but like before you think about that red template green and you're focused like what what is
Erik Belgum (41:12)
Mm.
Matt Considine (41:24)
Is it just that it has to be objectively, you know, something that drains or are there other ways that you're thinking about infrastructure for the future strategy of how it plays?
Erik Belgum (41:36)
Well, as Billy and Bob would say, you know, golf is a game of slope. And so slope is strategy in a lot of ways. So if you can get slope to work with the strategy, you know, so that it's draining in a way that accentuates the strategy, you know, you you try to do that. And around greens, you don't want to have catch basins and short mode areas that
are gonna collect balls, collect divots. You know, you try to really think about spreading out those divots around greens, so so placing the if if you need inlets, which sometimes you don't, you can just surface drain and and get away with swales and long runs of water over the ground.
You you try to put those inlets in out-of-play areas where they're still going to keep the conditions good and the strategy good. Irrigation is a big thing we have to think about. You know, where does the irrigation go? Where do these lines, not just the heads, you know, the underground pipe, the main line, the the laterals, and the the order of operations for us, and I think for most projects, is you do your earthwork, your big earth-moving project, you do your
feature construction, you know, your shaping for bunkers, T's, greens, and then you do your put your drainage in, your pipes, your drain inlets in after that, and then irrigation goes in. So once you put the once you've done the shaping and you've committed to certain locations for low areas where where basins go, you're pretty, you're pretty locked in at that point. So you really gotta be paying attention strategically to what's going on in the hole.
those early stages because you don't really have a chance to change it afterwards without really setting things back. And so
My one of my favorite golf courses was a course called Setting Down is a course called Setting Down Creek, north of town. Kevin, I don't know if you've have you played that one?
The Professor (43:34)
I've caddied there numerous times.
Erik Belgum (43:36)
Okay, so that golf course to me was brilliant. Tyler Ray just gave it a pretty major renovation and I haven't seen it since Tyler did it. But it it is a special golf course to me, special place in my heart. And they they built Setting Down in nineteen eighty seven and they only got it built right before be where they did because it was right before the National Wetlands Act went into effect. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to build the golf course.
The Professor (43:43)
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (44:04)
But out there, there were 10 greens with no greenside bunkers at all. So bunkerless green complexes. And the the reason for that, I think, is that they couldn't get the drainage to work in the they couldn't drain the bunkers, they made the bunkers really deep. They couldn't get the water off the property to the river to outfall it. So
The Professor (44:15)
Okay.
Erik Belgum (44:30)
And that way, infrastructure or the inability to put the infrastructure in limited what they could do around the greens. And so they with sand, so they had to be more creative. And I think it it's awesome. You know, it was it was awesome. I haven't seen what Tyler's done to it. I'm hoping to get out there as when I get back to Atlanta. But sometimes the that limiting factor of what you what infrastructure you you normally rely on that you can't use.
Forces you to be more creative.
Matt Considine (45:02)
that's interesting. Yeah. No, I l I love that the restraint is what kind of dictates the strategy versus the the opposite of this is going to, you know, allow us to do something. It's like, no, it's it's allowing you not to do something, so we gotta pivot or get more creative. I I I I love that thought.
The Professor (45:24)
I had never thought about that with Sent Down either. And it it strikes me because I just remember through Caddy and how interesting everything was up around the green sites. Like it was a real true approach shot golf course. And I think there's something to be said when you don't have a green surrounded by bunkers. It makes the approach a little more interesting because if you miss, a bunker just catches your ball and you don't have to worry about it getting away from you. Where at Sentin Down, it's like, whoa.
Erik Belgum (45:35)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (45:48)
If I miss my approach over there, there's a little slope that's gonna kick it a little bit further away. You know, that's probably an auto bogey or down into a hazard. I'd not thought about that. Very, very clarifying. You brought up so you brought up Setting Down as one of your, you know, favorite courses. what give us a list and of your favorite courses in terms of that have informed you and, you know, the way you think about golf course architecture and design, the ones that sort of like
Just rest in the back of your head when you're looking at a piece of property and maybe come to the surface the quickest of like, if I could replicate something from there or just fit something like that, which ones stand out for you?
Erik Belgum (46:19)
Mm.
So satin down was my favorite in the state of Georgia that I'd played. The second favorite is Cuscawilla at Unlike Occone, the core crenshaw course. I think what they what they did out there is just fantastic with the it's so strategic at the greens. You know, the more the cl the closer you play to the hazard around the green the bunker or the water, the easier your putt is. You know, it's it's so they give you tons of room off the tee, generally speaking, but
The Professor (46:30)
Mm, mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Erik Belgum (46:52)
you have to challenge hazards, whether that's you know, like I said, bunker, water, slope. You know, you think about the right side of number nine at Cusca Willa, you know, if they put the pin over there and you don't and you shy away from it, you could put it off that green in a heartbeat. And and so I love that golf course. I think it's fantastic. Not a lot of people know about it in their repertoire. Like I don't hear it brought up a lot. It's an early one of their golf courses, nineteen ninety seven.
The Professor (47:03)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Erik Belgum (47:22)
So
not long after Sand Hills opened, you know, was was Cuscawilla. I think that one's awesome.
I you know, my buddy's a member at Old Barnwell, so I get to go out there and play with him and I think that's bold and brawny and really cool stuff. I mean they Brian and Blake did some really cool things out there that I like. Those Yeah. Blake and I were in school at the same time. He was in the masters program and I didn't know he was into golf, but I remember standing behind him in line at the printer, you know, on deadline. It's like why is this
The Professor (47:44)
A shout out fellow UGA graduate, Blake over there, yeah.
Erik Belgum (47:59)
Why is this big guy? What's he doing? But yeah, Blake's in UGA grad. so those are those three around me are I I love, you know, in the southeast. And then going over to the UK and you know, England and Scotland, I've gotten to play some golf over there. I actually think I was right behind one of your new club trips back in 2022. because I think I had the same caddy as you at North Barracks.
It's like a few days.
Matt Considine (48:27)
Yeah, this this this
this is what rings a bell. We absolutely did, Eric. Yes.
Erik Belgum (48:32)
Yeah, so North Berwick, way up there on the list. You know, that course is so good. it I got to go around it twice. it was one of the first ones we played, so I I loved it. On that rest of that Scotland trip I would say Prestwick, Royal Dornock. we got fortunately got to play the old course in a couple of different conditions and that was just awesome.
The Professor (48:36)
Yeah, so good.
Erik Belgum (48:55)
Carnousty was really cool to see just how low the entries were into those greens, how on grade they are. You know, you contrast that with Dornick, where everything's kind of four feet up or more. Carnousti, you could putt it onto the green from 60 yards off, and and you didn't really have to hit it that hard to get it on there. and then last year I went to England with my dad and took the old equipment, the persimmons and the blades, and scrounged up some baladas and
The Professor (49:00)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Erik Belgum (49:24)
I didn't get to play Sunningdale old, but I played Sunningdale New and that was just tremendous. The the Greens complex is the the way the chorus breathes, the routing there, the different directions it spins you in. Part threes are all gorgeous. that part of the property where you go back into the the woods a little bit, get your you know, after the tenth hole and get your sausage roll and
Come back out of the woods.
Matt Considine (49:51)
One of the best
halfway houses, if you wanna call it that, in the world, Professor. Unbelievable experience. Min minimalist, but just the coolest thing you'll ever see you'll ever see.
Erik Belgum (49:56)
Yeah.
yeah, sauce control in a pim's cup and and then you start making some burbies after.
Matt Considine (50:08)
That's right. Always helps. I you know, I got this is that's such a great list. You just they've some of my all time big inspirations for me and and just favorite golf courses in the world. but living up to our tagline we've kept on this podcast all these years, untold stories in golf, Eric. I what I love about your story that I I it was great to hear more of today is like your upbringing, the places that you learned the game, the places that you spent time, they they
The Professor (50:20)
to our tagline we've kept on the side.
to hear more of today is like your upbringing, the places that you've learned the game, the places that you spend time. They
they they they weren't necessarily the Sunny Dales and the setting downs. It was you know accessible golf which is really the heart of the game when I when I always think about it and it's it's cool that you're at Otter Creek today. I piqued my interest. I'm gonna be checking out a much more something awesome facility for
Matt Considine (50:35)
They they weren't necessarily the Sunningdales and the the setting downs. It was, you know, accessible golf, which is really the heart of the game when it when I always think about it. And it's it's cool that you're at Otter Creek today. I'm you peaked my interest. I'm gonna be checking it out much more. It sounds like an awesome facility for
for a community that cares about their golf. I I just wanted to to ask, you know, you've been to all those places, you've learned so much, but
w when you get to work on something like where you're at today, Otter Creek, and are are you thinking about your your childhood and kind of like the way you grew up and and I guess the the way I'm gonna ask this question or combine this question is when you come back to Otter Creek in a year's time, when the you know post growing, what what is success look like to you? Like what what is the work you're doing today mean in twelve months and that and then you're gonna say, okay, we did we did our job.
Erik Belgum (51:35)
think success at Otter Creek looks like a golf course that is being used by people of all ages. If I see little kids out there and and middle schoolers and high school kids playing with older folks on the different
On the different courses we've designed, I want obviously you want it to be well used and and enjoyed by the people that you're you're designing for.
It's gotta be financially successful. You know, at the end of the day the golf course has to sustain itself. It's a business. And so making sure that that T sheet's full
That's not really up to me, but the w I guess the thing that makes people makes helps make the tea sheet full is that you build cool stuff. You know, stuff that they want to come back and see. And maybe even come here and stay and play. You know, make Otter Creek something that is so fun and enjoyable to play with a lot of variety that people would spend a weekend or more in Columbus. You know, it's a great town. Columbus is
Really cool town, you have good restaurants, you have good food, you have good golf course here in Otter Creek. And if we can get people to come and play it back-to-back days or you know or more, I think that would be a sign of success, is that people are so intrigued by it that they are they want another crack at it. Or they say, maybe I'll get to see if I can see that pin back there tomorrow, you know, I want to know what that looks like.
The Professor (53:11)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (53:17)
Yeah. That's
Erik Belgum (53:17)
So so that
that that that that's I think that would be success for us.
Matt Considine (53:21)
I s I I would I would agree. That's awesome. That's awesome, Eric. Well, we'll let you get back to it. just wanted to thank you for coming on. I know you get to see the professor a good bit. I'd love to join you guys for a K-ming classic anytime. That sounds like the coolest thing ever. and and come back, come back and join us sometime. This has really been cool to learn about your journey, your process, and good and excited to go check out some of the things you you've built and you've been working on.
The Professor (53:31)
I'd love to join you guys for a gaming class.
Erik Belgum (53:46)
Thank you guys. This has been fun.
Matt Considine (53:49)
And thank you for all those golf sickles, new club members, non-new club members, people that love the game of golf that are listeners to this show. if you're not a subscriber, please do it. You know, it's just a button there on the right-hand side, left-hand side, something. Why not? It helps the professor and I keep having these conversations, keep learning. And while you're at it, like, rate, review, tell us who asked better questions, the professor or myself. And and thank you for, you know.
Making the game more meaningful for all of us. if you want to connect to the professor and I, our links are in the show notes. We'll also include Eric and his stuff too, if you want to reach out. and and thanks to everybody that's contributed to this show of late, Brad Malach J.R. Rudgers. there's there's been a nice little crew that that are helping us grow the Bag Drop and what we do. And thanks, of course, we couldn't do this podcast without our partnership with Titleist.
And the Bag Drop Podcast and New Club are both in partnership with Titleist those guys behind the GTS family of Metalwoods and the number one ball in golf. check out over at Titleist.com. We'll catch you on the next one.