Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Ivey Career Management Podcast shares practical career advice, alumni insights, and expert perspectives to help Ivey students and graduates navigate their careers with confidence.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]
Welcome to the Career Management Podcast, where we bring you stories and strategies from students,
special guests and the career management team as we get set up in the studio.
Make yourself comfortable and let's get started.
Marco is a fourth year student doing a dual degree with Medical Sciences, and we start with his recruiting experience from last year.
At this time of year, we know that HBS students who haven't landed summer internships yet might be maybe panicking and wondering,
what do I do if I don't get a summer internship?
And we hope that it might be helpful to hear from someone who's been in their shoes before, and just hear a little bit about how your journey went.
Yeah. For sure. So I, um, kind of got into my HB one year.
So really thinking about consulting initially, um, uh, kind of got very engaged in those like big,
big MBB processes early on in the year didn't land anything.
Um, kind of was just getting my feet wet for recruiting for the first time.
Um, and so as a result of that, I think there was, uh, a lot to be learned throughout that process.
But it was not the time that you were going to really, like, excel in an interview process just because,
you know, like your your competition has probably had more reps than you.
Um, so I kind of continued on interviewing throughout the whole year, um, towards second semester,
started picking up in interviews a little bit more, um, with a variety of firms, but nothing actually stuck.
And so I found myself kind of finishing my exams, um, in April, um, I went back home,
started kind of increasing the amount of job boards I was looking at,
like I was really only looking at the Ivy portal prior, sort of increasing it to like LinkedIn or like my workday or, you know, other job boards.
Um, um, but ultimately, like my first,
first big recommendation was like push late with the internship search because I think a lot of kids will get to the end of exams and say,
like, hey, I don't have an internship. I should probably like, make my backup plan, and they don't give themselves a full shot.
I would assign that job kind of end of May. So I think that's pretty late in the scheme of things.
But I'd really recommend extend that window and look at the industries that, you know,
other people are not looking at that you feel that are close enough to where you want to get to,
that you can kind of continue to articulate your story towards, you know, where you aspire to be kind of full time.
So if, if I'm hearing you correctly, Marco, the first part about the timeline, um, is that, you know,
May wasn't too late for you to find and land a summer internship, but it's about not not waiting until that time point, so don't leave it late.
But also, May isn't too late if you've been, you know, doing everything right and still not landing.
Keep going, is what I'm hearing. Is that right? For sure. Yeah, I would say like you're definitely late to start in May.
Uh, but if you have been working all year and you've got active applications out in May, like keep,
keep pushing that till the end of May, because I would say there's lots of companies that are hiring for that kind of June entry.
Um, past that, you kind of run out of luck. So I would say keep your targets open at that.
And, and you're going to have to modify or modify what you're like, what where you want to be,
because I think you are kind of picking out of a very confined pool towards that late in the summer.
And so you're going to be looking mostly at the industries that are going to be just meeting people.
Um, can you tell us a little bit about how you chose to broaden your search or what informed?
I mean, I never fielded the kind of, um, like when I was looking up at internships, like, I just want the list of internships.
I don't really want, um, ranked by function or, you know, I'll do that stuff myself.
Um, and that's on 1220. Correct. Yeah. 1220.
But then also LinkedIn, I would say to like, okay, just like looking up an intern,
like just summer internship and then field location for kind of, you know, the cities you're looking at.
But in terms of jobs, just look at all of them. Mhm.
Um the, the jobs I would say like you'll, you'll see you can kind of see these trends on LinkedIn.
Like I remember last summer I kept getting like oh jobs in renewables.
And it was like a big category, new jobs every week.
I was like, oh obviously there's there's some appetite in activity in renewables for for employment.
Um, and so I think that was that was a really good place to search.
But I think the other like key piece in identifying a good, good news reading, good kind of, um, understanding of what's going on globally.
Like the other industry I would point students to today would be insurance. I think insurance is kind of like amidst a people crisis.
And and it also aligns with kind of the function that a lot of kids really aspire to be in after business school, which is like capital allocating.
Right. So like, I want to be at a hedge fund, I want to be somewhere where I'm investing.
And I think your opportunity to do that at a much easier route than, you know, trying to recruit for those hedge funds is, is insurance.
You can get in, get good mentorship, like lots of those companies are so actively looking for interns.
And then for me, what I did, as well as kind of a backup strategy was I.
Had worked, uh, the prior summer at a mortgage shop in Troy and worked and worked my butt off.
Um, I believe you, like, uh, so I had I had quite a bit of, like, I would call it, like, social capital for her.
Okay. And what do you. What do you mean by social capital? I mean, like, you know, people, people thought quite highly of me.
Like, I went into that firm within two weeks.
I was kind of like and, like, ready to take on a full time deal by myself.
You know, I was probably a little bit slower than a full time analyst at that time, but I,
I could do all the work without like, being, um, kind of like being overseeing the whole time, which is hugely valuable.
And, um, I think they, you know, had a great summer there, had lots of, uh, really tight connections at the end of that summer.
So I, you know, when I was kind of faced with that jobless state, it was reach out to those guys because at least those guys have,
you know, as opposed to kind of cold outreach, those guys have an idea of what I'm willing to bring to the table.
And, you know, they're going to be you know,
I think their pitch to somebody to hire me is going to be a lot more compelling than the kind of one one off coffee chat that I had at some firm.
So this wasn't necessarily a group or a connection that you had planned to have.
But through your experiences built as you went without knowing that, hey, I might need to call on this later.
It sounds like something that grew organically as a result of, you know, your work ethic and and how you showed up.
Yeah, for sure, I would say, but I would say like, you know, you definitely want to reach out to profs,
teachers, anybody that you know is you feel you've demonstrated kind of compelling work ethic in front of,
I would say, get those people kind of to to vouch for you as well,
because I think they open up a whole sphere of opportunities that are not even on the job board.
Being proactive in your approach as well, like you say, reaching out for sure.
Okay. And so I mean, to kind of continue where I was with that,
I was I reach out to my boss and he had put me in contact with a small development firm, really cool company.
Like they're doing cool stuff. They basically wanted me to come on as an intern and, um,
be the the kid who knew everything about how mortgage shops like punch out development models for lending.
So that's a big ask. Yeah. Big ask. Um, but simultaneously I had this opportunity.
And so what I'd say about kind of like from the expansion point is, you know, I, I knew I didn't want to be in real estate.
Um, I, I liked it, I loved the finance element of it.
I just like real estate's kind of snoozy for me. Like, I'm. I like the kind of, like, high risk, you know, impact.
Very entrepreneurial, innovative industries like, like more and in my field of study like biotech.
But, um, and so, uh, ultimately I made that decision to kind of just like go into renewables,
which I had like zero experience in, um, because I thought it was closer to that industry that I wanted to search for.
Um, and I would say retrospectively, like, I, I for, for everybody's information, like I've just signed, uh, an investment bank just right in biotech.
And so I totally think that that kind of like option to not continue in real estate
and go somewhere else that's like a little bit more sciency was kind of really key.
And making that next connection for, for where I'm now. So I definitely push you to expand.
And like once you kind of collected those,
those kind of final opportunities because I'm pretty certain if you are doing your outreach and and applying like those may opportunities,
they will come because there's at that point there's just not that many candidates that are left.
Two things I hear from that, Marco. The first is, uh, the need for congratulations on your offer.
That's a wonderful opportunity. And the the second is what I got from your story.
There is you had this idea of what your next stepping stone was going to be.
And when that didn't follow through, you pivoted to a stepping stone that was maybe a little to the left or a little to the right.
And then the next stepping stone was, was that original land for sure?
Yeah, I would say, and I think that's possible in like, uh, just about everybody's experience, you know, wherever you're trying to be full time.
Um, so I would definitely encourage you. I do encourage you look at those like small under allocated industries like that is a gold mine.
Like you will find better opportunities. You'll learn more in those industries.
And it's just easier to kind of, uh, continue on from those building block experiences as opposed to, um, I don't know,
looking at at really competitive industries where you're not certain that you're going to get a job there every summer.
So I do I, you know, I think candidates kind of always have to be balancing, you know,
the like you should be feeling for the competitive ness of the processes that you're really aspiring in and, you know.
What? What the opposite kind of feels like.
Um, but I will say, like, you know, competition is is a challenging thing to deal with, I think, for a lot of students.
Mhm.
Um, and uh, I, I just think, um, you've really kind of to, to get out of those competitive pools, you've got to have that expansion kind of mentality.
Okay. If you were to time travel back a year ago to when you were putting out applications and getting interviews,
but it's not translating into landing a role.
How did that feel for you? I would say frustrating and I think it's a challenging process.
Like, I think initially my learning curve was like, how do I get the interview?
And then it switched to like, how do I make it through like first round?
And then it kind of like at the end it's like, why can't I break through that final, final round?
Um, but in terms like, yeah, challenging process.
Um, if I would, if I were to go back and do it again, um, I tailor my outreach a lot more like I think initially it was like,
okay, I'm going to send a pretty generalist coffee chat email and have a pretty basic coffee chat.
Now, my strategy is kind of, you know, like constantly thinking about how can I stand out in that process.
So it's, you know, researching and kind of like profiling heads at the firm for a couple of weeks and figuring out like,
okay, this person is, you know, like I was I was looking for,
you know, who was in the private equity group because, like,
I had a coffee chat kind of pitch that was ready for somebody in the private equity group.
And so, yeah, had I, had I done it again early on, I would have told myself, Taylor, Taylor, you're outreach.
And then. Later on.
I don't know, I don't really have much, much feedback for kids that are making it to the very last stage of the process.
It's challenging, like you got to fight to get information from the recruiter.
You got to just stay in contact with those firms you want because you don't know when they're going to have another opportunity.
But if you have a recent interview that's, you know, shows your talent there,
they're more than likely to bring you on process less if you depends on the firm, obviously, but I think there's lots of opportunities there.
So I just think, you know, if you're getting to that interview stage every time, like keep,
there's not too much to change from the outreach approach, from the interview approach.
It's challenging. It's subtle. It changes firm to firm.
And I think it's it's about having, you know, establishing a good group of people at that firm that are pulling for you to work there.
Like that's imperative. You got to have that. And then number two and three is, I think, a really deep dissection of what this role requires,
like what are the key skills and how am I going to demonstrate that on this interview?
Um, and, you know, I think some of my interviews have been failures in the sense because I've, you know,
didn't make it past the process, but they've they've been very informative in teaching me about what that role expects.
Like what, uh, you know, what is the expectation for a consultant.
And so I think, you know, get to those processes.
And then it's about my new tweaks. Once you're in that final kind of once you're consistently making it to the interview process.
So at times being in the interview, it felt in the moment like the purpose was to land this job.
And in hindsight, part of the purpose was also learning.
Yeah for sure. Like it was like standard two back to back consulting cases.
Um, and like, you know, I, I got feedback from both managers saying, like, your analysis was perfect.
You're very quick. Like, you know, you crunched the numbers fantastically.
You're you're qualitative quantitative side. That was all great.
You didn't present like a consultant. And so it was like, okay.
Like, you know I got get that that's part of this business model. And so that's where I say like, you know, maybe, maybe it's not for me.
What do you think you, you wanted or needed to hear in those moments of frustration?
You know, you're doing all that you can do and still not getting the results that you want.
What do you think you needed to to hear or know in that moment?
It's only a problem if you make it a problem. And so I think what like digesting that a little bit.
So you you're in that process like I mean if you're feeling bad because you're not giving it everything you got, that's a simple fix.
Like just you just go give that process everything you have. If you're in this situation where you feel like you're consistently, you know,
giving it everything you have and it's not translating to results, that's, you know, that's the frustrating situation.
But the other thing is like, I don't know if you if you have the expectations that you're going to get every single one of those final processes,
it's just you're going to just lead to it's going to be devastating when you don't do it.
Um, there's like if you can if you can be kind of mentally strong enough to say that, you know, you know,
after every process that doesn't work, like maybe, you know, that's that's just kind of the way it is.
Like, I just got to keep going, keep altering. Like that's when it happened.
And so I what I would say is for, you know, for my offer this summer, I interviewed there and they rejected me immediately after.
And it was only until, uh, this last week on like Wednesday, that I got an email at 5 p.m. saying like,
hey, we might have a summer internship opportunity for you. I respond and learn their candidate renege.
So the thing is, like, you could be really, really pissed off in that moment and like, hate the company and feel super frustrated.
And you know, I'd never going to apply there again. Whatever.
But, you know, you could on a stellar interview performance that might still get you the job there before your summer is over.
So it's, you know, I would say, like it's not a problem until you make it a problem.
And I was I was in that kind of, you know, looking for a job place for almost like two years.
And so it's, it's really a factor of, you know, it's going to be your own.
It's a struggle with your own mind. So I think you got to make sure you understand that.
And you don't put too much weight on these, these internships because they're insignificant.
I really think if you are the right person for that specific element,
like you will make it there and it may not be the by the path that you anticipate out of grad, but you will.
Absolutely. You know, you can absolutely get there. Um, what I take from that Marco too, is that, again, you did everything right.
They wanted you for the job. It wasn't that you weren't a good fit for the job.
It was that there was someone else who might have been, for whatever reason, the choice.
And even though they said no, they came back around. It wasn't that you did anything wrong.
Or that you weren't a good fit and they came back around and now you are in that role.
I feel like sometimes students feel like if they didn't get a role, it means they've done something wrong.
And I like your perspective of look at what you can tweak.
Take it as a learning opportunity, as well as recognizing the strengths and the accomplishments that you do bring to the table.
I recognize not everyone will end up in your situation where you get to know, and then two days later I get a yes.
But that piece of of balancing, what can I control?
What can I learn from while also not getting frustrated or feeling like a failure?
Because again, you can be doing everything right and still not land.
It's about learning what you can and keeping going.
And I'm so glad you kept going. Yeah. For sure.
And then the other thing I just add on there is like focus on the statistics, like some of those interview processes,
if you do the math on how many applicants and just getting picked for the interview is a very rigorous task.
So I mean, like, you know, celebrate those accomplishments too, even if they're not ultimately leading to the job there,
you should still celebrate those because they mark, you know, significant improvement over what's been accomplished by you in the past.
So I really think you got to kind of celebrate the there's going to be lots of wins and losses in that process.
And, and you just got to be ready to roll with those punches.
My last question for you, Marco, and my most important question for you, how are you celebrating your recent win?
How am I celebrating? Um, talking about the importance of celebration.
Yeah. So, I mean, I, uh, I am invited to the firm's, um, healthcare investor conference,
which is hosted at, uh, the Toronto Metropolitan Center downtown on next week on the 16th at 17th.
And how about in terms of friends and family, are you sharing the news yet?
Yeah, yeah. Like I've told all my friends and my family, um, had like a nice, nice dinner out with,
uh, my friends and then, you know, nice congrats from from all my family.
But I would say probably celebrate with them when I get back to Toronto.
Um, I think even sometimes just sharing the news, sharing the good news with someone else can be celebratory in its own right.
And again, Marco, it sounds like there's lots to celebrate for yourself this summer and no doubt beyond.
So congratulations. Thank you again for joining me here today and wishing you all the best for your months ahead.
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Cheers.
And after hearing Marco's success story, I called in my colleague Melissa Ganis to offer a career management perspective.
Welcome, Melissa. Thank you. Kate. Thanks for having me. Melissa, what's your role with career management?
So my current role is the associate director of HBA Career Management Programing.
So what that really means is developing programing for our HBA audience here at Ivy.
You've also just listened to Marco's recruitment story from his HBA one.
What top tips did you hear from Marco? Oh my God, there were so many good things.
Um, I think there's three things that came to mind as I was listening.
The first really, don't give up and keep looking.
Network, you know, looking at job boards, doing it all until the end of May, which is what Marco shared.
But I would say even into June, many students think that internships start in May or June,
and while many do certainly not all of them we actually see internships range from both eight to or all the way to 16 weeks,
meaning they don't have to start until July sometimes.
Um, and he also talked about expanding the job boards you're reviewing, so going beyond the Ivy job board and think I think that's important too.
Western has a job board, LinkedIn indeed. And even industry specific job boards can be super helpful.
Amazing. So, um, don't give up.
Marco and I talked about April and May.
But you're saying include June? Yeah, absolutely.
The second thing I would say is broadening your search.
So Marco talked about looking into industries,
areas of business that might be booming right now and begin researching them or consider coffee chatting people within those organizations.
There are also companies that naturally wait until a few months before the summer to do their hiring.
So you may want to look both at Ivy, but also consider other job boards.
And you certainly don't have to, um, you know, look, just at Ivy, as I mentioned, certainly look beyond to.
The other thing that Marko talked about is that there's so many ways to get to your goal.
He talked about how so many students think that there's this perfect internship.
And, you know, that's what's going to help you get your role post-graduation, when in fact, there are so many avenues to get to that same goal.
It certainly doesn't have to even be an internship. Your summer experience can be paid or unpaid.
It can fill skill gaps for you. It can give you exposure to parts of a business.
It can ultimately help you to prototype what you like and what you don't like in a job.
And this summer really helps regardless of the type of experience you have, even if it means it's a little bit different than what you had envisioned.
And that's okay. But know that whatever it is, it will help you to, um, achieve your goal in the long run.
Maybe in a little bit of a different fashion. Very cool.
So in addition to broadening their search, also knowing that there are many options for the next stepping stone Grove said earlier.
Okay, amazing. If there's one thing that you wanted a student to take away your own top tip, if you will.
What would it be? Recruiting is hard. Um, and there are so many moving pieces.
And while it's certainly not easy, as Marco mentioned, I want to reiterate.
Don't give up. Um, he one of the things he had talked about that I would often say is one of my top tips to is this expansion mentality.
I totally agree with what you talked about. Keep looking. Expanding where and how you're looking for opportunities.
Using coffee. Chatting as a way to learn. Not necessarily a means to an end to get a job.
And at the end of the day, it's not too late. Um, please don't give up exploring who can help students as they're navigating all this on their own.
Advisors. You certainly have your peers. You have so many people in the Ivy community.
But I would say, don't forget that you have career advisors.
We can be an accountability partner for you. We can help to just push you.
We can help to, you know, take a look at your strategy, whether or not you want to pivot in your plan.
Just somebody to talk, uh, talk to you about where you've been and where you want to go.
So I would say reach out to an advisor. We're happy to help. Melissa, thank you so much for joining me today.
It was a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening.
If you are interested in connecting with career management,
you can book a one on one appointment by visiting the 1220 appointments tab online or by visiting our space at room two,
235 in the Ivy Building at Western University.
Take good care.