We Bustin' 12 Common Construction Myths

We debunk 12 common construction myths! From the truth about verbal agreements, exact project completion dates, and new construction home inspections, to whether higher prices always mean higher quality and the myth of being able to knock down any wall, Mikki and Jess have got you covered. They also share a personal project update, discuss the benefits of sourcing materials from local businesses, and dive into the complexities of contractor markups and insurance. Whether you're planning a renovation, building a new home, or just interested in the construction industry, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice. Tune in and get the real scoop on these pervasive construction myths!

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
00:53 Townhouse Painting Project
02:57 Challenges of DIY Painting
05:40 Supporting Local Businesses
07:48 Beach Trip and Shell Collecting
09:51 Debunking Construction Myths
11:27 Budget and Cost Myths
23:05 Timeline Myths
27:38 Quality and Material Myths
28:20 The Illusion of High-End Brands
32:41 The Importance of Home Inspections
33:49 Contractor Licensing and Quality
36:00 Insurance and Contractor Coverage
39:59 The Myth of Verbal Agreements
42:45 Design and Function Myths
50:03 Energy Efficiency: Worth the Cost?
52:27 Final Thoughts and Viewer Engagement

Prism Paint + Design -You’re Triangle, Triad, Piedmont Benjamin Dealer
6 locations - Raleigh - Cary - Chapel Hill  - Greensboro  - High Point - Winston Salem
The products used were Ultraspec 500 low sheen eggshell walls and Door, Trim & Cabinet Satin for the trim.
Contact info
Rich Kipp, Regional Manager
919-268-0935
[e-mail]

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www.chicksinconstruction.com

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jessica Abreu

As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.

Host

Mikki Paradis

President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.

What is Chicks in Construction?

You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.

From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.

The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Aper, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home

This isn’t just another DIY podcast or contractor interview show. Mikki and Jess pull back the curtain on what goes wrong in home projects, translating industry talk into plain English and giving you practical steps to avoid common (and costly) mistakes.

After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.

Want to renovate smarter and spot red flags before they wreck your project? Hit follow and get ready for real talk, expert advice, and stories that will make you say, “Thank God I listened to this first.”

Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/

16 Chicks in Construction
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[00:00:00]

Mikki: Today we be busting 12 construction myths, verbal agreements or binding.

My contractor can give me an exact completion date for the project on day one. New construction homes don't need an inspection and more learning the hard way. Is overrated. So let's go get hammered or let's just hammer it out.

Mikki: Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise, and this is my co-host Jessica Abra.

So, we are here today. We're gonna get into it, but first we have a follow up. So you bought a townhouse? I did. And it's a. Um, personal vacation home [00:01:00] slash Airbnb. It is. Yes. And, and it had to be completely repainted and mm-hmm. Uh, what I did was, because me, I reached out to my paint rep and I was like, Hey, rich, my boy Rich, um, he, he, he wants to come on the podcast, but he can't come on the podcast because he doesn't, he's a, he's a business to business.

He's not a, he's not a homeowner rep. So he, he kind of deals with the large, large clients like myself. So I was like, there's, it doesn't make sense for you to come on the podcast. It's not gonna work. I was like, but, but my guy, if you recommend some paint products for Jess, and we like them, we'll talk about them on the show.

How about that? And he was like, deal, whatever it takes to get on the chicks in construction, I'll take it. And I was like, all right, rich, I got you here. We got you. So he

Jess: got you some wall was wall, ceiling, and trim. Yes. So we got wall, ceiling and trim paint for [00:02:00] our 1400 square foot townhouse. Okay. We needed to paint everything.

Yeah. Every, every square inch. And it, the paint was perfect. So, um, we got construction grade or contractor grade, um, ceiling paint. Okay. For.

Mikki: Which is pretty common. Mm-hmm. Um, you don't need to go fancy on your ceiling unless you're gonna have some weird lights that will throw shadows. Mm-hmm. But you can go with a, with a really basic ceiling paint to anybody try to talk you anything crazy if it's just a basic ceiling.

But, so you got a construction grade ceiling paint.

Jess: Yep. It, and it was, looks amazing. Then we picked this, um, beautiful magnolia something, there was two words to it, but it was like this really pale yellow. Um, very beachy. Okay. And then beautiful white satin for all of the trim and the nice, the doors and everything.

And the paint was perfect. Now, let me tell you, I thought I, you know, [00:03:00] I was gonna paint it myself because you, because you got a quote for $6 a square foot, and you were offended at your court. I was, I was highly offended. I was like, I can do this. I'm not paying someone over $8,000 to common mista. Listen.

Going inside of all of the closets to paint the trim, the ceiling. Oh my God. And yeah. No, no. Like when you look, it's the, it's the devil's work. You look at it and you're like, oh, I didn't, I didn't paint this. No, you cannot. You cannot. I understand why they charge $6 a square foot. I mean,

Mikki: six a square foot is not industry standard in our neck of the woods.

It might be at the beach because there's less competition at the beach. We ended up finding

Jess: someone who is not that, um, not that being $6 a square foot. Good. I don't actually know. Plus you were providing

Mikki: your own paint, so now you're like.

Jess: Yep. And they came in and in two and a half days they had it [00:04:00] all done.

Oh man, that's magic. That would've taken you two weeks. And even they were a little where. I worried about the fact that I had paint. I was like, oh, I have the paint for you. And they were like, no. And he was like, oh my God, what is this homeowner doing? Buying their own paint? And they're gonna expect, you know, a high quality.

Yeah, yeah. But when they saw the paint, they're like, oh, this is perfect. This is exactly what we would've recommended and oh, and gotten. So I was like. So Rich, rich

Mikki: at Prison Paint. Amazing. Did it, did he bring in the heat? I actually think he's like kind of a big deal at prison paint. Like he's like a vice president.

I don't know if that's accurate, but he's a pretty big

Jess: deal. We're gonna give him a fancy title. We're we're

Mikki: giving him an upgrade. He's the vice president now. You're welcome, rich. Tell your boss that, um, you just gotta raise. Thanks to Mickey Paradise and his boss knows who I am and will probably be like, I should probably do it.

Jess: Yes.

Mikki: Yeah, you should.

Jess: Yeah. So it looks great. It's starting to get rented. Yeah. And um, [00:05:00] you know what's also great about the paint that he recommended is that it was super easy to clean. Ooh. When. Because after it was done, you know, furniture and stuff had to get moved in and whoops, just hit the wall a bit.

Little bit, but you just, boop, boop, boop, and ooh. That's

Mikki: awesome.

Jess: Yeah, you just wipe it off. So what we're

Mikki: gonna do is we're gonna put the type of paint, because we can't, I don't know. Because I just, you know, I just made the magic happen. I don't know, pretty colors. And she got the paint, but we're gonna put in the show notes.

What type of paint? Like the, the brand? The the brand? Yeah, the product line in the show notes. What? Um, Benjamin Moore? Yeah, I believe so. Prism, and this is like a hot tip. So everybody goes to you know, Lowe's and Home Depot to get their paint and that's one way you could do it. But there's a lot of these small, um, paint distribution.

Places that are like kind of small business. They're small business owners that you could support [00:06:00] instead of these big box stores. So Prism Paint is one of those, um, where they have locations, um, the, they're, this one you got paint from, I think is specifically in the Midtown Raleigh area. Yes. Um, but.

They're a small business. They're, they're, you know, providing jobs, the money is staying locally, so, mm-hmm. It's something to consider when you are gonna go buy paint. Um, these people are a lot more likely to be able to help you find the right color. They'll spend more time with you. It's not just like, you know, dumping pigments and paints and shaking it, and,

Jess: I mean, rich wasn't there when I got the paint.

I mean, he's off busy, but the gentleman who I got the. Picked up the paint from. Mm-hmm. I also needed some brushes. Yeah. And I was like, what should I use to, um, with this specific type of paint? Yeah. And with what I'm trying to do, like what kind of brushes do I need because I brushes, want rollers, all that just go to Home Depot and get.[00:07:00]

So very helpful and knowledgeable in that area. And like you don't get that all the time. Yeah. When you're going to this big box store, they just want to push you along and not be bothered. Yeah. And things like that. And you certainly

Mikki: don't get that level of expertise. Mm-hmm. So prison paint, um, they are local in Raleigh, so if you're local in Raleigh, go go to prison Paint if you're feeling like support supporting local small businesses and check out.

Tell Rich the chicks in construction sent you. Um, that would be amazing. Let him know. Let him know. So that is awesome. I'm glad that worked out and that it was good paint. It was awesome that we didn't have to trash rich. 'cause that would've, I mean,

Jess: I would've felt really

Mikki: bad. Done. I would've done it. He knows

Jess: I would have.

'cause Rich knows, listen, we only we're honest here, we're, we're not sure coating anything. The spice, if you will.

Mikki: So, um. Other than that I went, I, I did another beach trip. I know you got more shells. I did. Oh God. The shells, uh, it's getting a lot [00:08:00] outta control. I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna have to start actually doing something with the shells.

'cause there's really, you can, I will gladly

Jess: take some

Mikki: off your

Jess: hands.

Mikki: Yeah, I'm sure.

Jess: I'm

Mikki: sure you would. Maybe I'll make you a shell coterie board, which is what I'm calling it. 'cause I make these boards with all the shells. Oh, cute. Um, and this, when I was on one of my, my she tours, there was like a.

Teenager there and I was kind of explaining what I do with all the shells and he goes, oh, like a charcuterie board. And I was like, I'm stealing that. Just so you know right now it's not trademarked charcuterie board.

Jess: You better go apply for that right now.

Mikki: Before this goes live, uh, it's, it's an inside joke.

This is not really funny, but it is funny. Sorry guys, we can't bring you in on this one, but maybe one day. Anyw who? So I did get a little beach, a beach action in it was my friend's 50th birthday, so I was like, Hey. Let's go, come, come, come to the beach, let's do some shelling. She actually, it was her first time shelling.

She's hooked. [00:09:00] She's, she gets it. Mm-hmm. She's like, all right, I get why you're so crazy about this. And I was like, thank you for acknowledging my crazy. So that was awesome. Um, so that was nice. It was nice to get away, but then, then you come back and you're like, oh, I was only technically gone, like, work days one day.

And it, it's like for some reason, five days. It's like as if I missed five days of work. Right. I don't really understand. There's some kind of paradox mm-hmm. Like a time work paradox that somebody really needs to work out. Somebody needs to do the math on this. Okay. For me, so that I could understand how this works because the, the catch up is, is, is a little offensive.

Joe: Mm-hmm. Uh,

Mikki: speaking of ketchup, um, I said that in a way that sounded like I was saying like the ketchup that you eat. Different kind of ketchup. Um, we're gonna do a little something different. Mm-hmm. Uh, we don't have a homeowner horror story for you today. So we want, and you know, our whole point is like to educate you as much as we can possibly educate you for when [00:10:00] you are dealing with any kind of tradesperson or a home renovation or building a new house.

Mm-hmm. Or whatever it is. And I do, I think that the show might be secretly, um, planting in my mind. The, the desire to renovate my house.

Jess: Ooh.

Mikki: And, and, but there are so many questions that there are not answers to, like, where would I put my dogs? Nobody's gonna let me stay in their house with my 250 pound English mastiff.

That is not a fan of humans. So it might take a minute. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, because like I, the l level of Reno, I'm thinking like we'd probably have to move out, need to. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like, eh, knock it down to back up. Be like, sure, bring your English mastiff to my Airbnb. No. Nope. You're like, you're like, don't call me Mickey.

Nope. Zero pets. Percent. No pets. Hard in bold text. So we wanted to give, to go through some, [00:11:00] some, some different topics where there are a lot of construction myths. Or maybe they're homeowner myths, or maybe it's something that you just made up in your mind that you thought That sounds great. Yeah, and we wanna just debunk that we're gonna be myth busters today, my friends.

Um, hopefully this will help you to be a little bit more prepared. Um, so we're gonna go through this list, so mm-hmm. We have talked about this one before. This is, we're on the budget and cost myth. Uh, if I get three bids, the cheapest one is the best that lies. Lies that the internet told. You don't believe that that is not.

We have, I actually think, and we've talked about this before, uh, that you should get four bids at minimum, because the fourth bid will help you find out like who's actually high, who's actually low, where, where the real middle is. Like a lot of people think, oh, I get three bids, they're [00:12:00] three different numbers.

That gives me high, low, medium. Well, what if you get three bids and two of them are exactly the same? Does that mean that the other one is like crazy high, crazy low? Like is it an outlier? Yep. You don't know. That's where a fourth comes in and kind of adds a little bit more validity to your mm-hmm.

Bidding process. Um, so never ever, ever, ever take the cheapest bid unless you want to be writing in Clickety Clackity style, your homeowner horror story to us later. Because that is what the cheapest bid is gonna get you,

Jess: because the cheapest bid usually ends up not being the cheapest in the long run.

Right. You end up, they

Mikki: forgot something. Now they have to hit you with the change order now and they end up paying more money. Yeah.

Jess: Or they'll do the job and then it ends up not being done correctly or properly or not to the way that you wanted it, and then you end up having to pay somebody else. To fix.

Right. It, so it is how you wanted it, and that just ends [00:13:00] up making it be more. Right? So definitely if you're not gonna go get four bids, do the middle one at,

Mikki: at the very least, like right, there's, there's no, there's no, you're not getting the best quality of literally anything for the cheapest price. No.

Like, like, you know, ladies, I'm talking to you right now. We all know. We all know every one of us has at least one questionable person Our in our closet. It may be a Louie, it may not be, you know, it's not, you think nobody knows, but at the end of the day, you know, the quality's not there. Did you pay $75 for a $700 purse?

You did. And you can get away with that as long as nobody looks real hard at the corners. You know what I'm talking about? You don't want that to be your kitchen. Mm-hmm. It's fine if it's a person in your closet that sometimes you bust out for special occasions. It's different when it's your house.

Mm-hmm. So [00:14:00] please do not go with the lowest bid and think that that's going to end well, it's not. We've talked about this, you know. You know.

Jess: All right. Can we. Always add things later without an extra cost. Uh, that

Mikki: is not a thing. So I don't know who thinks this is a thing, but you can add things later. It at a, at a, at a very steep extra cost.

Um, more than likely, you know, if, if you don't, construction is this, this beast of timing and everything going in in the right time. And so if you were to add something after something has already been completed, there might be rework that has to happen. So like, let's say. At the very last minute, you were like, Ooh, I wanna add a light with a light switched.

Well, now we're calling the electrician back. So that's a trip charge. That's the work that he's doing. Mm-hmm. There's a markup on all of that. If you had known at the time [00:15:00] that, that he was there, that you wanted that light switch moved, um. It would've been a much more minimal cost. So that re like the coming back, the rework is always more costly.

It's always more expensive. So really thinking through the things that you want and having them done at the time, the, the correct timing is huge. And the idea that adding something later won't cost extra, like, um. Who, where, where did you read that? On the internet. Because that was a lie. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry to be the one to bear that you don't, it's

Jess: not like a bogo You not buy one get one free.

Yeah, we're not

Mikki: BOGO in here guys. It's, it's, it's, no, you have to pick, buy one, get one at the same price, if not more. Um,

Jess: so, and now you talked about a markup. So do all contractors charge the same for a markup? No. No.

Mikki: So, um. Listen, there's some contractors out there that maybe they, maybe they're, maybe they've [00:16:00] been not doing this a couple years and they're just, they're just really perfecting their art.

They're perfecting their craft. They don't feel like they're a 30% markup contractor yet. They're like, I'm 15 'cause I'm still working it out. Mm-hmm. So you could have that, or you could have the guy who, oh man. So I did my continuing education, um, and this, this, this guy taught it. And I was like, listen, he seemed like a nice guy.

He seemed like a nice guy to get a beer and move some chicken wings with. Okay, but would I, would I hire him to build my house? No, absolutely no. Um, the, the man was so regimented, like he was like. I wake up every single day at the exact same time, and I eat the exact same breakfast. I was like, are we in construction military school right now?

Like, it was very intense. Like, I was like, is this, you don't need that? Is this basic training what's happening? Like, he was talking about how he makes his bed and I was like, sir, no, he was funny. So he had that going [00:17:00] for him. But, um, he, he, he was a whole lot. And I'll tell you one thing, this guy. He's very proud of himself.

He's very proud of himself. He easily charges a 30% markup, if not more, if not more. So there is definitely a, a vast difference in what people will charge markups for. There is a vast difference on how people add their, their profit and their their markups.

Jess: Do you know that when you are booking them, like is, do they tell you what their markup is?

If you ask 'em, will they tell you? Or is it just kind of like woven into the price and you're just kinda guessing what it might be? Okay,

Mikki: so I, a good gc, and this is from my personal opinion, good GCs out there could do it a different way. But my whole thought is like, if I'm gonna do something, I want you to know.[00:18:00]

That I am being compensated for it. Do some people will give you a, this is the percentage. Mm-hmm. But they won't necessarily tell you we're charging that on everything. Okay. Like we're like the, this is the percentage of the total job.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Or some, you know, some people will say, Hey, we don't mark up labor.

We just mark up materials, or we don't even do a markup system, we just have a flat fee. This is what our fees are. Okay. Um, so we can really be all over the place. And I will say, the more that I've talked to general contractors, they can be very guarded about letting a homeowner know how much they're making off of something because they feel like then if the homeowner thinks that amount is too much, they will then try to start nickel and dimming them.

Okay? But there is so much that goes into a home renovation that more than likely you're hurt. [00:19:00] Whoever is doing your Reno is not making enough money. Like, to be perfectly honest with you, unless they steal all your money and leave, which happens a lot, which we don't recognize they're making enough money then, but if they actually finish your project, like there's a good chance just given the amount of GCs that I run into that are like, oh, we don't do renovations 'cause we can't make enough money at them.

They're not making enough money, so, mm-hmm. I think a GC that's really upfront about how much money they're, they're they're making and it, and, and they're not really gonna tolerate you nickel and dimming them from that point on. Like, do understand. That was another thing that happened in continuing my education.

It was a really great opportunity. 'cause we had, like, we finished 20 minutes early and so I just was like, Hey, I have a podcast. I have a lot of questions. Um, and so I got a lot of answers. Mm-hmm. Um, one, one of them was that. General contractors will vet you. So they don't wanna work with, with the drama, they're [00:20:00] not here for it.

So if they sit down, like they're a good GC is gonna wanna meet with you before they're, they sign onto to anything. Um. And if they're not vibing, like they Mm. They'll go, they'll, they'll be like, it's not a good fit. The other thing that the, the instructor of, you know, the classes as a GC does, which I thought was really cool.

He has two phases of his, of his contracts. Mm-hmm. So he has like the, you know. Figure out the bid, figure out how much it's gonna cost, get, you know, get it ready to be done. That phase and then the actual construction phase, which I thought's really cool because it gives you the opportunity to say, Hey, you know what, actually this phase was not enjoyable for me.

I don't wanna work with you, but it's done. And he's giving them a completed product. Mm-hmm. That they can just then pass along to another general contractor. He's getting paid for it. Everybody's happy. They can part [00:21:00] ways.

Joe: Yeah.

Mikki: Um, so I thought that was really cool and I hadn't heard that done by anybody else.

They just kind of are like, oh, here's all the things. But he kind of does, it does it in phases like the pre-construction and then the construction and those are two separate contracts. But that's probably good for

Jess: the homeowners too because if it's, even if he was enjoying working with them, if they didn't Right.

It gives them

Mikki: the out to be like, ah, yeah. We're not gonna proceed. Um, we didn't really like this. Yeah. The, the fact that you eat the same thing for breakfast every day is a little offputting. I can tell, I can tell you eat the same thing every day. Um, so I thought that was really cool. Um, but yeah, a lot of GCs will be, they can be and that's understandable.

They can be, they can be weird about giving you pricing because they have gotten, um, a lot of pushback and so. I

Jess: mean, it's understandable. I was just, 'cause I didn't know. Yeah, yeah. Is that something that we can expect to see or not expect to see? So it's kind of, it's could go either way. Yeah. And you have to just accept [00:22:00] that that's the way that it's going to be.

It

Mikki: doesn't necessarily mean a GC is shady that they don't wanna give you that information. But I will say this, I would feel a lot more comfortable with the GC than just was straight up with how much money they were making.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: I don't know what it is about it. It's just like. Yeah, I'm gonna make this much money 'cause I'm, I'm gonna work hard on your project.

Right. Like, it's gonna take me a long time. Like this is a, this is several months of my life.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: I need to get paid this much. I have a company, we have insurance, there's overhead, all these things. Right. You know, like, so it's like I would much, I would feel much more comfortable with somebody giving me a number, even if it was like, kind of like a whoa kind of number.

I'd rather know it than be alwa, than like in the back of my mind being like, and it. Hmm. Am I overpaying for this? You know, like I just Yep. I wanna know. So, doesn't necessarily mean a, a GC is shady, but they can be very elusive about sharing what their markup is and what they're charging and all [00:23:00] that. Uh, and, and they have good reason for it.

Um. Okay. Some other things. We're gonna move into timeline myths. Ooh, fun. Uh, and this is a good one. The contractor can give me the exact finished day on day. On day one.

Jess: No,

Mikki: no. They, I'm gonna go with No, they cannot. They cannot. That is myth busted

Jess: because I know that if they open up a wall, there is going to be something there.

Shanan will always shena again. That will always. That wasn't, um, in the plan. That's why we have a contingency in our budget. Right. So to fix all the things that a 20% contingency that come from when you open up a wall. Yeah. And then like they also don't know if you order something when it's gonna get shipped, if it's back ordered, like

Mikki: back ordered

Jess: rain.

Mikki: Also

Jess: like, like listen, the exact date Construc love that construction.

Mikki: Yeah. There's no exact date like I was, I was. Talking to these, to all these general [00:24:00] contractors on the, on the call. And I was like, we're, I was asking 'em all these questions and they were like, the one thing that kind of irritates them the most about, um, homeowners, the things that homeowners don't understand is, is no general contractor self performs every single task.

So they're hiring other trades to do this job. Mm-hmm. Because our industry just doesn't support self performance like that. So, no, their drywall guy is not in-house. Their electrician is not in-house. It's not all under the same subsidiary. They're hiring subcontractors the same way I'm hiring subcontractors.

And the same way the huge general contractors that I work for are hiring me as a subcontractor.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: So it is a trickle down, uh, situation when it comes to contractors. Um, and they're definitely hiring them. And the thing about hiring subcontractors, especially in the state of North Carolina, is. I can't demand that you be at the job on a certain day or all of a sudden you're not a subcontractor, you're an employee.[00:25:00]

Mm-hmm. So a lot of subs would be like, yeah, boss be there tomorrow and then tomorrow comes and goes and they ain't there. They're not answering their phone. And while it would be great if we had control over that as contractors, uh, we don't, so there is no such thing as. Oh, I, I, we're gonna finish on this exact date, and that's the exact date we're gonna finish.

Whether shenanigans, all the things are gonna happen, opening up a wall, finding something you weren't expected. No general contractor is gonna give you an exact date. And if they do, uh, I'd be a little worried because either

Jess: the lion, they

Mikki: built your house and they know what's in the walls or. They're lying either.

Either one.

Jess: Yeah. Um, how about, um, I'm not doing a big project, so it'll get done right away.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jess: Um, yeah,

Mikki: no. So what I have [00:26:00] found mm-hmm. Why this is such a busted myth is that the smaller the project, the less the profit margin crazy concept, right? Mm-hmm. But, uh. People are less likely to jump on small jobs because they have less ability to make money.

So a lot of times people will be like, oh, it's just a this, or it's just a that. Mm-hmm. It shouldn't be this hard to find. Actually, the smaller your project is, the harder it is to find somebody that wants to do it.

Jess: Yeah. They're gonna give you that. I don't really wanna do this. Yes. But if you're going to pay me this amount of money, it's called

Mikki: the, I don't wanna do it price.

It's the

Jess: $6 square foot paint job. Yeah. But I don't wanna

Mikki: do it price. Like, thanks, but no thanks. Yep. Um, and then if they, if the contractor, if. Ends up getting it, then they make so much money that it was like, well, it was worth it. I didn't wanna do it, but I got paid. Right. So that is a big factor in smaller projects is one, they're a little bit more expensive because like we've explained before, [00:27:00] guys, people get paid by the day, not the hour.

Mm-hmm. So if your project. Can get done in half a day on for whatever the trade is. They're still charging you for the whole day. So if your project was bigger and they were to work the whole day, you are paying the same amount. On a big project. Mm-hmm. Then you are on a small project. You

Jess: see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Joe: Isn it,

Jess: isn't

Joe: it?

Jess: Yeah. Just get all the things that you wanna have done in your house. Just write a list and then as soon as it's a big project, then go get Yeah. The license down contractor. And do it. Wait until

Mikki: it's big, wait until your budget's big. All the things. All the things. Right. What else we got here?

Sipping, uh, we're gonna move on to quality and material myths. Ooh. Yeah. Higher price always means higher quality lies. Absolute lies.

Jess: I mean, you know this, if you just go to a regular store. Yeah. Like just go, you know, you're walking down the aisle and you're, you can touch [00:28:00] all the, the clothing and the fabric and not always is the higher price one the softest?

Mikki: No. Oh gosh. That like reminds me, as we've discussed on many of shows, I don't watch regular television. I only watch YouTube and I love a good. Like YouTube review a YouTuber reviewing a product.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Uh, and so this one lady that I watch, she ordered and they do like them in mask, like, so every celebrity brand, she ordered a piece from like every celebrity brand within, I think like this, this letters of the alphabet.

Okay. And one of them was a $400 black t-shirt. There was, it was literally a black t-shirt. And so I'm expecting, it's not the one I have on

Jess: today,

Mikki: right? No, I don't think it's that one. No, it's not this one. I'm not sure

Jess: though. I don't know what your, what

Mikki: your budget was for, for the podcast. It

Jess: wasn't a 400 t-shirt,

Mikki: what our clothing budget for the [00:29:00] podcast was.

Um, so, and she was like, this is no different than any black t-shirt in my closet. So that concept is the same as in construction. Um. There are like some, some brands that are known as being very highend, and so people will pay for the, the, the name prestige of the name, right? So I think like Viking is a big one.

Um, apparently all the rich folks, they'd be about that Viking appliances. Now, I don't know if these appliances can, in fact. Navigate. Boats to from, from one place to another. Or if they it, the price tag to start a war, I'm not sure.

Jess: But for the price tag, I'm like, will it just, if I just put the ingredients on it, will it just make, will put them together and make the food?

Mikki: And the [00:30:00] answer is no. Um, my friend, my friend redid their boathouse and they were like, we're putting all the biking appliances. And I was like. Oh, so we're just spending money. Cool. Love that press. Um, I mean, it wasn't my money. Yeah. So I was, I was excited, like, oh, to see all the Viking appliances. Mm-hmm.

Um, and honestly, guys, I mean, they were nice, but like the, I'm talking, we're talking like $10,000 stoves dollars in US currency. No, no. You can buy a perfectly. Of a, a, a luxurious stove for like a thousand bucks. That is a high end stove. But this, this stove was genuinely $10,000. Um, and again, it does, it did not put the food together.

Jess: I mean, for that, for that amount of money, it's gonna have to do more than just cook the food. Like I used to come with a person, do more. Like, I don't wanna have to stand in front of it and cook on it. I, no, I need, [00:31:00] yeah, the person

Mikki: that assembles the

Jess: food, food. It should come with them.

Mikki: Yeah, it should. It should come with a Viking.

It should bike. It should come with a Viking that knows how to cook. Yeah.

Jess: And they

Mikki: can also, and my chef can can, you know, maybe occasionally start a neighborhood war because that's what Vikings were great at. They were great at places. I mean, I dont wanna start a neighborhood and winning stupid prices, prizes.

Jess: I know somebody else is really good at that. Yeah,

Mikki: we, we know a couple, uh, also an inside joke. Um, so yeah. Okay. The idea that material something being more expensive makes it better, is not true. There's a lot of really great quality, quality products out there, and you can go, like when you're picking your child, um.

Find the least snooty looking salesperson there if you can, and just explain to them like, Hey, listen, I'm going for this certain look, but I don't have this certain look budget. Do you guys have some materials that look similar to this [00:32:00] and are of great quality but not that same cost? And literally when I renovated my bathroom, I did that exact same thing and she was like, girl, I got you.

And we found the same look for half the cost. So still great quality, still a great product. Gives me the look that I wanted, but it didn't break the bank.

Jess: Yeah. You got that champagne taste on a beer budget. I

Mikki: do. I 100% do. Mm-hmm. It is a, I sure do.

Jess: I sure do too. And it doesn't matter, like I could not know the prices of anything and I'll just look at something.

Ooh, you're like that one. That's the one I like. And you're like, oh, it's a million dollars. I turn over and it's like, oh, well that's gonna stay right

Mikki: there. That happens to me all the time. Mm-hmm. I'm like, I have the world's most expensive taste. Yeah. This is a fact.

Jess: Um, do new homes, they don't, they don't need an inspection.

Right?

Mikki: Oh my God.

Jess: Yeah.

Mikki: If you buy a new house that hasn't been inspected, don't buy it. Everything needs to be inspected. Um, there are two different building. Licenses. So there is a [00:33:00] residential building license and there is a building license, which residential building means you can build new construction homes.

Building license means I could build an airport. I have the building license. In case you weren't picking up on what I was putting down. I could build an airport if I wanted to. Am I gonna build an airport? Absolutely not. Could I? Yes. So the fact that there is an entire division, uh, within the licensing board for just new construction homes signifies that all homes being built need inspections.

So that is a myth. That is it. And I don't even know who started that, like. Who are you that thinks that new constructions don't know, need to be inspected? Who knows? I'm really scared

Jess: for that. Uh, let's see. Let's go into contractor and processes. Oh, yes, that's, we're gonna, we're gonna slide into there. Um, licensed means guaranteed quality.

Ooh, they need to [00:34:00] be licensed. They do need to be licensed.

Mikki: But listen,

Jess: that does not mean that they're necessarily going to have the best quality. Um. It doesn't even mean they know what they're doing. It just means that they passed the test. They did. Or congratulations somebody, what is it? Qualified their business.

Mikki: Oh yeah. That's another thing. So they can technically not have passed the test, but found somebody who did pass the test that qualifies them as a general contractor. Very long story behind that. We won't get into it, but um, yeah. In those cases, that person's not even really a licensed general contractor.

Their company is licensed and there is someone else who passed the test that is making it so their company is licensed. So I think the thing that really, in this phrase that is quite upsetting is guaranteed quality. I don't think there's anything such. There's no, there's nothing, there's no guarantee.

There's no [00:35:00] guarantees in life. My friends. I'm so sorry. Um, except

Jess: for death.

Mikki: Death and taxes. Mm-hmm. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

Jess: All

Mikki: the good things. Sorry

Jess: to be so

Mikki: morbid. Sorry. Sorry to bring the vibe down, but those things are true. Um, so yeah, we're definitely, you're not getting a guaranteed, uh, quality because you're using a general contractor that is licensed, however.

At least in the state of North Carolina, there is a homeowner recovery fee fund. And so if you are using a licensed general contractor and you have a major problem, there actually is the ability for you to get that work. Redone at the expense of the licensing board so that there's the benefit there where, you know, we're always preaching about using a licensed general contractor.

Part of the reason why is, yeah, it doesn't guarantee that that everything's gonna go smoothly, but you have some things to kind of cover you. Mm-hmm. So that is really [00:36:00] important. Um, if the contractor has insurance, I'm covered. Um, no, no. Covered for what? Like,

Jess: yeah, like what is, what does covered mean? Like, if they put a hole where is not supposed to be when and they have insurance, like what does that do for you?

Mikki: Yeah. And, and, and really, like what level of coverage do they have? Like, you really should be getting a, a copy of their certificate of insurance or a COI. And that will tell you what their limits are. It'll also show you like what all the types of insurance that they have. So general liability, workers' comp.

Here's a fun, fun, little funsie let's say you hire a general contractor who does not have workers' comp insurance and somebody that works for them falls at your house and hurts themself. They then hire an [00:37:00] attorney because, you know, gotta get paid. And the attorney finds out that the general contractor doesn't have workers' comp insurance, which is where they would pull the money for that person's mm-hmm.

You know, medical care or whatever, the time off, whatever it is. So the insurance, the, the, the lawyer that they hired finds out that the GC doesn't have the right insurance. Guess who does you the homeowner. So somebody gets hurt mm-hmm. On your job. Your general contractor doesn't have the right insurance.

Uh, you be paying, you be paying, coming out of your, coming out of your homeowner insurance. Yeah. So not only is this myth not accurate at all, um, there does need to be some due diligence on your end to get a copy of that certificate of insurance. And really, you shouldn't be messing with anybody who has anything less than a million dollars of coverage, uh, for a single event.

Um, and I know that sounds like a lot of money, but if you are doing, if you're building a $500,000 house, $500,000 worth of insurance is not [00:38:00] enough. Um, a million dollars is kind of like the, the, the bare minimum. Mm-hmm. Um, and I know I work in commercial and we work on really big jobs, but again, if something goes horribly wrong, you don't want them to be underinsured.

So that, that's the thing, is not only does them having co. Insurance cover you. It doesn't, but their coverage might not cover all the things. Mm-hmm. So it might be something where when you do have a homeowner or do have a renovation coming up, you talk to your insurance company and say, Hey, is there any additional coverage that I need to cover myself in the event of X, Y, and Z?

Something that I learned about in my gc uh, continuing education. I mean, I've known about bonds. But I never thought about them in a, a residential setting. Um, so you can, A bond is essentially insurance for your construction project. So there's all types of bonds, there's surety bonds, [00:39:00] there's performance bonds, there's all kinds of bonds.

Um, but a performance bond is something that a homeowner could require a general contractor to get, and if the general contractor fails at performing the work mm-hmm. The surety company, which is essentially like an insurance company, comes in and funds the work to be finished. Okay. So I was kind of thinking if a GC didn't like our escrow idea.

How do you feel about a charity bond and or a, about a performance bond and bonds are spicy priced, so I'm like, I'm pretty sure escrow would be cheaper, but if you don't like my escrow idea, how do you feel about and feel about a performance bond? And they're like, I hate all your ideas, Mickey. That's fair.

Stop it.

Jess: Yeah. Um, this is a great, a great myth that, oh yeah. I mean, I love, I love a contract. Um. [00:40:00] Verbal agreements are fine if I trust the contractor. Yeah, no. So listen,

Mikki: I think I, I was just talking to my lawyer the other day about like. The, the, the thing in all, in all business, I think, but definitely in construction, is you get it in writing.

Mm-hmm. So one of like our practices is I'll have a phone conversation with somebody, and these are clients that I love, like I trust them. This isn't about me not trusting them, it's about me covering the rump upon pump. You know what I'm saying? Like, I gotta cover my butt. Mm-hmm. So I'll have a conversation.

On the phone with a GC or with a superintendent on a construction site. And I'll say, Hey, uh, this is what we're doing. Do is this, does this work? And they'll be like, yeah. So then I follow it up with an email. So there's a paper trail and I'm like, Hey, per our conversation on the phone at 5:08 PM [00:41:00] we're gonna do this, this, and this per your request.

Can you just make sure that I have that correct? Um, so a verbal agreement.

Joe: It.

Mikki: No, don't do that. Mm-hmm. Like if you have a conversation with your general contractor and you guys agree to some things, that's great, but then you need to follow it up with an email. So you need to follow it up with something in writing that says, Hey, we just had this conversation.

We agreed to these things. This is the cost that we agreed to. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. And you can word it in a way that isn't like, Hey. I'm making sure that you're not gonna bel, you know, not do the work that you said you're gonna do. You weren't, you say like, Hey, I just wanna make sure I heard this right.

Mm-hmm. I just wanna make sure we're on the same page. Is this, is this what, what we both agreed to? Um, which at the end of the day, if someone has no intention of doing anything wrong, won't bother them at all. No. I find. I kind of use it in, in like construction. [00:42:00] We always do this, so this is always our practice.

Anytime we have a conversation, we follow it up in writing. 'cause that's just company policy. Yep. But there are, there are contractors who, that's not their company policy. So when they start to do that, like, you know, something is a, is brewing, like, there's like, there's like some drama on set that's about to unfold and you're like, Ooh, they do unfollow up emails.

It's about to go down. It's our policy. But a lot of people, it's not until things are about to go wrong and they're like, need to get this in writing. So yeah. And you're like, oh no,

Jess: what's happening? Yeah.

Mikki: Verbal agreements are not. Fine. Mm-hmm. If you trust the contractor, get it in writing. Always. You guys know how we feel about this.

Uh, so now we're moving on to design and function myths. Open floor plans are always better

Jess: For who?

Mikki: Yeah. I mean it, eh, [00:43:00] I know they're very popular. Um, but there are, there are some things that you need to take into consideration, like privacy. If your entire kitchen is open to your living room and your dining room, that means that, like if you're having a dinner party, yo, if you're losing your mind cooking that Turkey dinner

Jess: because you don't have a Viking to do it, because

Mikki: you don't have a Viking, either a person Viking or a Stove Viking to cook that Turkey.

Everyone's going to see the meltdown that you're having in the kitchen. Sometimes a door helps you let the mascara run and then touch it up, move on out. Unfortunately, open concept, you're not gonna have that. Also open concept is noisy. Oh my gosh. Noise travels. My sister has an open concept. Two story, and it's so open that her foyer opens all the way up to like the, oh my gosh.

So she must have an echo. Oh my lord, Jesus. She, she, she's has all the [00:44:00] kids. She's not all the kids, but she's got three kids, which seems like a lot of kids to me. You have three kids, four kids. It's a lot of kids. I'm like, you're like halfway to a soccer team. But every single one of them. Had to like train for sleep because like anything that was happening downstairs, you could hear it at full volume, if not louder, because of like upstairs the way sound traveled, it's like a pin drop and the baby wakes up.

So. Open concept is cool. And if you're into that and you don't mind people seeing you cry while you're cooking your Turkey dinner,

Jess: how many times have you cried while making a Turkey dinner?

Mikki: Uh, that's why I don't cook Turkey dinners. 'cause I'm gonna cry and like something's gonna go horribly. Wrong tears.

Listen, I cry at least once a day. I should be hired to test mascara. I'm just saying we should put that on my resume. Um, I'm a crier. I like to cry. Sometimes I cry while I'm trick. Cooking, literally anything. Cooking makes [00:45:00] me wanna cry. Okay, so here's another one. Um, you can just knock down any wall.

Jess: Oh sure.

Let me get my sledgehammer and get some aggression out on a wall and just like knock it down because any wall is fine. None of them are holding up your house or load bearing.

Mikki: Oh, they

Jess: are? They are load bearing. Don't take a sledgehammer to your wall. Don't

Mikki: do that. So what is, this is not, it's not true. I don't know where these myths are coming from.

Like who started these rumors, but, okay. So. I cannot explain to you in this podcast how low distribution works, but what I can tell you is that like there are certain, your roof has a pitch, which it means it has a top. Unless you have one of those flat roofs, then disregard. We're not speaking to you. And also you're not planning on ripping out your own wall because if you have a flat roof, you have people for this.

Okay? Flat roofs are expensive. The [00:46:00] rest of us, regular people have a roof that has a pitch and the pitch is where is the point? So your load points are gonna be where your roof sits on the side of your house, like here. And there's also a load point that carries the the weight of the top of your roof and that runs down the center of your house.

So a lot of people think exterior walls are the only walls that carry any kind of load. Mm-hmm. Not true. There's actually a pretty significant amount. Of de and also depending on how many floors you have in your house, there's a pretty significant amount of load distribution that's going through regular walls in your house.

Jess: So. There's a lot of ways. I feel like people who think that they can just take out the walls has never needed to make a toothpick house with marshmallows. Oh, definitely not. You do that in school and like you have to make it stand up. Yeah. They've never done a

Mikki: gingerbread situation. Right. Like you

Jess: have to have more than just the outside.

The structural integrity

Mikki: Come

Jess: for reals though. [00:47:00] I mean, yeah. Come on people. Come

Mikki: on, people. A little. Come on people. So listen. Yes. You cannot just take out any wall. Mm-hmm. I actually got into it. Uh, recently on a job site. There's, there, we have a new superintendent. He's 29. We not we being my company, the, the general contractor that I'm working with, he's 24 years old.

And it's not like I have anything about 24 year olds. It's not like I have like a, like a chip on the shoulder, but it's like, I've literally been doing this longer than you have been alive. So I need you to put a little, a little respect in your voice when you're talking to me. You know what I'm saying?

That very infrequently happens. So this kid is like explaining to me how load-bearing walls work.

Jess: No.

Mikki: Right hand to God. And he is like, yeah, you gotta put, you gotta put drywall here and here and here 'cause that's all load-bearing. And I was like, is it? And he's like, it is. And I was like, where in the plans does it show that that's a load bearing?

Well, and he's like, well, I'm, I don't need the, he literally says, [00:48:00] I don't need the plans.

Jess: I can see it with my own eyes. I can see the, that's

Mikki: load bearing. So as I'm sitting flabbergasted by the absolute audacity, audacity of this 24-year-old kid who he can just see. You could see the load. Uh, I can see a load too.

I can see a load, a whole load of crap. The HVC guy walks in, which this guy is also probably in his early twenties, but because he is a man, he's more of an authority than I am. Mm-hmm. And he walks in, he goes, nah, man, that's not load bearing because this, this, that, and the other. And the guy goes, oh. My bad.

Oh. And I go, okay. So I didn't see it like that. So all the drywall you told my guys to put on walls that were load bearing, I can just go ahead and disregard that because they actually weren't load bearing, which is what I literally just said. But because the HVAC guy said it, now you believe it. And he was like, there's a lot of words in that.

But yeah. And I was like, okay. There's a lot of words. He was like, I was like words, words, words and some numbers, [00:49:00] sir. So, um, yes, there are. Random walls running throughout your house, that may or may not make sense to you that they're carrying load. But the best way to to check that out is to hire a either structural engineer to come in and say, yes, this is load bearing.

Or No, it's not. That's a little spicy price, and it might be hard to get a structural engineer to come out to do that because they've got, you know, structural things to do. But a good GC will be able to get up into the attic to see where the load is running, uh, and to know which walls can be removed. But there's a system to that, and I will say even if you have a structural wall, it can be removed.

But there's a lot of stuff that has to happen structurally by a structural engineer in order to make that happen. Mm-hmm. So it can make something open concept. If you want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can just pull out any wall and it's gonna be fine. No. So keep that in mind. [00:50:00] Mm-hmm. Uh, and the last one, we'll just get through it quick.

Energy efficient upgrades aren't worth the cost. I actually think this is and isn't true. So there are some energy, like appliances that are worth the upgrade. Uh, I don't even think they make appliances now that aren't energy efficient.

No. So it'd be

Jess: if, if you're going to upgrade what you already have.

Mikki: Right.

Jess: So, but

Mikki: like there's certain things like. If your house, and we talked about this when we had Ashley on mm-hmm. That owns Wallaby windows. If your house was built in the seventies, you do not need the most energy efficient windows that have ever been made because your house is like a piece of Swiss cheese.

It's leaking air, like it's full-time job everywhere. So no, you don't need to spend the extra money on the most energy efficient windows because they're actually, the ROI is not there. That return on investment is not there. But there are certain things like, you know, [00:51:00] sealing your cross face, sealing your attic.

Like there's, there's certain things where energy, investing in this energy efficiency can really be worth that cost. Mm-hmm. But it's really case by case. So. I would say don't get sold 100% on just because something is energy efficient. It's better. It may be, it may not be. You gotta do your research on that one.

'cause it, it really could just go either way.

Jess: Yeah. And I mean everything that you buy for appliances now or energy efficient. Yeah. And like, it just means that it's going to use less water or maybe it's going to be faster. So you're using less electricity and stuff. Yeah. And it's like. Me,

Mikki: I gotta, am I gonna spend Yeah.

On the appliances? I'm like, I think they're all pretty much the same point. They're all the same at this point, except for the Vikings. 'cause they come with a Viking.

Jess: Um, we're gonna make them come with a Viking. Now, that's

Mikki: Vikings like gonna put out a statement. Our Viking appliances [00:52:00] do not come with a Viking.

He will not cook for you. Despite what these crazy women on their podcast that five people watch, we don't sell the appliances with a vike. Which is very disappointing. Uh, so yeah, energy efficiency is not, um, it's not the end all be all. It could be worth the money you need to do the research. It could not be worth the money.

You need to do the research either way, so. Some things to remember. We've covered a lot of myths here. I keep hitting the microphone with my hand. Sorry about that. I don't know if we're gonna keep it in or if he'll cut it out, but if the key leaves it in, that's for you. Special from my hands to yours. Um, remember three the cheapest bid, never.

Mm-hmm. You're never doing the cheapest bid. Um, don't try to do, add things later and think that it won't cost more. It will, uh, contractors. All charge the same markup. Not true. Some contractors are very [00:53:00] impressed with themselves.

Jess: The contractor cannot give you an exact date of when they're going to finish your project because there are many things that go into it. And if they give you an exact date, they are lying.

Your small project isn't going to get to the front of the line because it's small. Yeah. Okay. It's, sorry. That's, you know, big projects are actually probably gonna get done faster than the little ones because there's going to be,

Mikki: there's more money on, on the table. More money. More money.

Money.

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Um, higher price always means higher quality. False. That is not true. You guys, it is not true. Mm-hmm. Um, new homes don't need inspections. I don't even know who came up with that, that the, the level of falsity there is laughable. All new homes get inspected. Uh, it's, it's kind of a thing. It's even in Texas.

Even in Texas, they inspect new homes.

Jess: Um, license does not. Guarantee quality, [00:54:00] it does not, nothing can guarantee No. The quality you're, there's just no guarantees. You need to make sure that your contractor has the right insurance, and even if they have insurance, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're covered.

Yeah. You know, you gotta, you gotta do a little due diligence there and really make sure that they have the workman's comp, especially if there's gonna be other people than just the contractor in your home doing work.

Mikki: Yeah. Uh, open floor plans are always better. They're not if you have kids or if you cry when you cook.

We've discussed that ad nauseum, um, which apparently I'm the only one who does. Uh, you can just knock down any wall lies. You cannot knock down any wall. I feel like we really hit that, the importance mm-hmm. Of understanding structural integrity. Um, and energy efficiency upgrades aren't worth the cost.

Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. So these are important things to note. Mm-hmm. So we hope this is super helpful for you [00:55:00] as you're kind of like dipping your toe in, if you will. If you wanna do a renovation, if you are thinking about building your own home, if, yeah, I don't know, you need your water heater replaced, you need to know these things.

So we hope you find this really helpful. Please don't forget to send us your homeowner horror stories so you can be a part of the show yourself. Um, in not just helping us create content, but also in helping other people learn from your mistakes or from the mistakes made by your contractor. Um, also I wanna give a shout out to, because we did challenge in, I think, episode 14, general contractors to submit your homeowner horror stories because we do wanna be fair and balanced.

Um, we wanna make sure that we are kind of representing both sides of things, so please. General contractors, go to chicks construction.com and share with us your stories. Because honestly, knowing what a homeowner like nightmare from a general contractor's [00:56:00] perspective is, I think would be so valuable to the homeowners.

Um, I think a lot of homeowners. Turn into nightmares because they don't know any better. So like, Hey, let's use this podcast to educate 'em. So we are looking at you GCs, send us your homeowner horror stories. You can stay anonymous. So if it, if it's something like, oh, I don't wanna, you know, negatively impact my business, no worries.

Jess ain't gonna tell your name anyway. Like she, I never tell anybody's name. She gonna make up your name gonna be Gary. Okay? It's you gonna be Gary. Uh, so please like and subscribe. Follow us on all the socials. Jess knows about those. She, she does that.

Jess: I do all of 'em. So Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at Chicks In Construction podcast and on YouTube where chicks in construction.

Just make sure that you subscribe and like.

Mikki: Follow the things, the comments, all the things it helps with, the algo, all those things. But yeah, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you guys next time. [00:57:00] Bye bye.