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🎙️ I love people. That's why I do this.
Beyond Just Leadership is a show about leading the person in front of you a little better. Not the title. Not the org chart. The human. I'm Steven Allphin, and each week I share the real stories behind how the best leaders build trust, help people find their why, and bring out the best in the ones they're responsible for.
Whether you're a CEO, a first-time manager, a parent, a teacher, or someone who just wants to make a difference where they are, you'll get honest lessons from life, family, and work — the kind that stick.
The title changes; the person doesn't. Lead deeper, lead people, lead well. And remember: it starts from within.
I've let somebody sit in a review and hear something for the first time that I had known for six months. And I had told myself the whole time that I was being kind. I wasn't being kind. I just didn't want the twenty uncomfortable minutes. There's a name for what I was doing, and it isn't kindness.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Beyond Just Leadership Podcast, where it starts from within, and you learn to lead deeper, lead people, and lead well. Here's your host, Steven Alphen.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the conversation you're avoiding right now because you know exactly who it's with. So oftentimes, we sit in these meetings and we think to ourselves, you know, why don't I wanna have this? Why don't I wanna bring it up? And I'm gonna kind of talk about a couple of different things just to just to start, actually. But first, thank you for all the support.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate it. Please share this with your friends. Please subscribe, like, wherever you get your podcasts, please. All the support really helps as as I continue to try to reach reach the one more than anything else and really put myself out there. So why is this so hard?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go to a couple of different things that I think are extremely important as it relates to why these conversations get awkward in the first place. Because sometimes we keep telling ourselves, hey. You know what? I just wanna be the nice manager. I just wanna be the individual that everybody loves.
Speaker 1:And so all of these conversations get really awkward because it's a choice. First off, you can choose whether or not to make a conversation awkward or not, but also, it's really about am I building a relationship with this person? Because if you go into a a difficult conversation and you haven't built a relationship, well, a 100%, it's going to get awkward because they're gonna come across defensive, and they're gonna say, well, wait a second. Do you even know who I am? Do you even know me?
Speaker 1:Do you even know what I've been going through? And so the important thing is is you have to come into these conversations. If you're a mere new manager or, hey, maybe you've been managing this team for a while, but you still don't know them on the level that you should, that is extremely, extremely important. And so a lot of times we we think, okay, being nice. Well, I'm gonna say that that's that's the enemy in all of this, is being too nice.
Speaker 1:When I think of Kim Scott, I I cover her a lot in my trainings, but ruin is empathy. It's it's you wanna be the nice person. You wanna be that good person. You wanna be the person that everybody loves, like I just said. And so you you just try to be nice in everything.
Speaker 1:I don't I don't wanna cause any confrontation. I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings. And so you just come across as, hey. I'm I'm just not gonna say it. But there's a huge cost to that because guess what?
Speaker 1:You're not sparing them. You're deciding by yourself that they're allowed to know about their own career. So, like, think about that from the perspective of, hey. This is their own career that they're going. I don't wanna input something.
Speaker 1:Like, it's their choice. Like, they can do what they want. No. Leadership is more than that, and that this this is where that we make the mistake of not looking at the person as a human being and actually wanting to help them improve. You you truly do care about them, That you're when you're sitting in this conversation like, I think of my kids all the time.
Speaker 1:I give them feedback because I want them to succeed. I care about their individual lives. Leadership is the same thing. If I'm holding withholding information from them in this conversation, I mean, you're that's detrimental to their career because they could have ten years down the road, and in hindsight, if you would've just given that feedback ten years prior, and maybe they're on different teams at a different company, you've just hurt their career, and maybe the next manager won't say it either than the next manager. So the best thing that you can do is because you care about them as a human being is have that difficult conversation now.
Speaker 1:Because every week, I didn't say it. I made it more expensive for that person. It never cost me anything, and that's the part that I got wrong is you have to do it now. You don't wait because that's the expensive part for that person. Like I just explained ten years down the road, that's huge expense of time and things that you could have expressed or helped that person achieve.
Speaker 1:And, yes, it's a difficult conversation. So now here's the thing that I had completely backwards, and I thought saying nothing was the safe option. Well, let me kind of go into really quick because it's on my mind. Before I was actually gonna to record this episode, I was trying to think of of some things, and it really hit me hard when I actually started watching the new Ted Lasso season that just came out. Because this is this is a fascinating thing of and the heart of all of this when you have difficult conversations.
Speaker 1:So there's a scene at in the very first episode of this new season where, basically, Ted is was or maybe it's the second episode. But Ted got asked to come back and coach the women's team, mostly because you think of leadership, everybody kind of gravitates towards good leaders. And so no matter what he's good at, he he didn't really understand soccer in the first couple of seasons with the men's team, but it wasn't about that. It was about him as a leader in general. And so the I guess, the main characters saw this in him, and so that's where they brought him back after he moved back home to be with his family.
Speaker 1:They came and said, hey. How about you come coach the women's team because we're launching this women's team? And so as he enters the situation, everybody has a different thought about the current, I guess you call, manager of the team. It's an individual that nobody really liked, that was very hard, didn't they didn't understand, and came across very cold in her approach. And so Ted kinda gets in in here, and he immediately wants to get to know everybody again that he didn't already know in the previous season.
Speaker 1:So because there's new new faces, new people, this manager, the this assistant coach is what I'll say. And so he immediately starts to get to know these individuals. And then finally, this individual said, you know what? This is my last day because I resigned. He was about to go interview some people, and he came back into the room, and the assistant coach was like, well, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:Why aren't you interviewing those people? Well, he's he basically goes on to say, well, none none of them are who we actually need or want. Who I want, and then he starts describing the individual in the show of who she actually is. From the short amount of time that he was there, he showed how much he cared and wanted to learn about that individual. And so everything he said to her was, well, I need somebody like this, which you are.
Speaker 1:I need somebody who has this type of experience, which you are. And so regardless of how cold she was or or her style, I guess you could say, he saw the potential in this assistant manager and why this team actually needed this individual. And so these difficult conversations are are very similar. We should be looking to see the potential of these individuals at all times, looking at them of who they can be in their career, where do they wanna go, what type of mom or dad or spouse or partner they wanna be with anybody. You getting into their life and who they are is extremely important because it helps you understand how they tick and everything like that, but also how you can then ask them, hey.
Speaker 1:Going back to Ted Lasso, this assistant manager wants to become a head coach, and he knew that. And he sees that potential in this character. And so in that conversation, he always states that. He first apologizes and says outright, like, hey, you're fantastic, but he aligns his goals with this individual too of he's going to help this individual grow into where he knows she can become, which is the biggest thing that in any difficult conversation, if we withhold information, we're withholding their potential. That's the key in everything.
Speaker 1:And so we have to continually think with these individuals, this is really the heart of it, is something that even Brene Brown talks about a lot, and it's it's really just six words that she uses. But clear is kind, unclear is unkind. So having also clear messages to this individual and having a clear communication between them is paramount. The second to thing to this is being specific. Because a lot of times we walk into these situations or walk into these conversations, and we're extremely unclear about it.
Speaker 1:We kind of the phrase a lot of people use is you just beat around the bush. You're not actually getting to the point of it, and so I think that's extremely important. So unclear isn't natural. They build a story out of what what you're kind of saying because you're not actually giving them the information they need, and so they build the wrong story around them. And here's the the truth behind all of this, that nobody has ever been fired by surprise.
Speaker 1:Somebody knew. Somebody always knew. And so in these difficult conversations too, if if you just show up and it shows that you actually don't care and it actually sends the message to the rest of the team you don't care, if it ever came out that this individual didn't receive the feedback they needed and then they were let go, what does that say about trust for the other individuals on the team? And so it's extremely important that each one on one that's why it's so sacred is to have these difficult conversations. Be specific.
Speaker 1:Don't beat around the bush. Be careful of having too much empathy and just being too kind because it can ruin it. It can ruin the trust. It can ruin what what you hold in your hands, which is the the life of this individual, of their job, their livelihood, and so it's extremely important. So here's what I would actually do now, and the first one is just a deadline.
Speaker 1:So for example, the thing that I would do now is not wait. Is so if something happened, yes, there's usually emotions from it. Don't do something immediate, like right then, right there. But what I would do is I would pull them aside maybe in the next one on ones next week. That is being very quick and specific and actually putting a deadline on it.
Speaker 1:If you continue to kick the can down the road, they're not gonna receive the feedback they need. So that time in that one on one when they sit down is you actually call out the issue. So I'll give this as an example. So let's say you have Larry. In Tuesday's meeting, you cut Dave off twice.
Speaker 1:So it's like something very specific that you're telling them that they did that you saw. And so don't get to the conclusion of it. It's basically saying, you're just not being a team player. That is a little bit of you're coming up with a conclusion of they're not a team player instead of you're actually calling out, hey. I noticed that in the meeting, you did this.
Speaker 1:And so you're giving them actual feedback of, hey. Say what you saw, but then take a step back. You named the impact, then you stop talking, and let them speak. And write down what they say because I think that's extremely important as you understand their side of it before any conclusion is made. That is the important part with any type of conversation is, yes, we assume all of these things.
Speaker 1:We wanna interrupt them. We wanna tell them who they are. But that's that's where trust is built is you need to understand. Maybe there was a reason why you cut off that individual. You cut off Dave in the meeting.
Speaker 1:And it could be that it like, maybe you were having a bad day. Yes. Should we be taking out things on other people? No. But those things are all coachable.
Speaker 1:Those things, I think, you can really learn about individuals so that if it ever happened again, you kind of have an idea because you know the person. You've gotten to know them, and I think that's the that's the big thing. So the biggest thing that I would say is in these sacred one on ones, you bring it up and you're very specific, but don't get to the conclusion. Don't tell them who they are. Name the actual impact.
Speaker 1:Name the actual thing they did very specifically, and then let them speak, and and then coach from there. I think that's the extremely valuable. So I'm telling you this because I think you can do something with it. I think that's the other line you can use at the very end is, hey. I'm telling you this because I care, and I think you can do something with it.
Speaker 1:So it it really shows, hey, I trust you. I'm not coming with conclusions, but I trust you that, like, hey, this information is important, and it's gonna make you better for your future, which is extremely important. So I think that's the part that we often miss is is really looking at these individuals like people as I've really built this, like all the previous episodes to this point. And I'm gonna highlight, I think, the biggest thing is when you look at an individual like a human, when you look at what they're doing, and you actually treat them as I care, the whole world changes. And you start this whole example, you start looking at everything differently.
Speaker 1:Coaching is is difficult in this sense because oftentimes, we want things just to happen overnight. We want it to happen right now. Let's fix this right now. Well, guess what? The example that I just gave of Larry calling out Dave or interrupting Dave twice, the the big thing is it does take time.
Speaker 1:It might happen again. And so you leave space for the imperfection. That is the empathy piece. And so not to get confused by being too nice, because you do have to hold these individuals accountable. You can't have a toxic situation where there's always this inner fighting going on, but you do have to call it out.
Speaker 1:And when you do, then you work on it. And then each one on one is a stepping stone of, hey. How did we do this last week? I didn't notice that happening again. But if it does, you know what?
Speaker 1:I got your back. I understand what's going on in your life. Like, those types of things really make the biggest thing. And so you gotta protect those thirty minutes in the one on one. That's the building.
Speaker 1:That's the stepping stone each and every week. And I get it. If you can't do it every week, every other week, at least there is a consistency, and remember, do not push those. So you didn't fight to keep that thirty minutes that you could fill it with a status update. That is extremely important.
Speaker 1:Remember those thirty minutes. It isn't a status update. It isn't just to talk about stuff at work. It is to really understand and give really good feedback to that individual. That is the sacredness of it, and that you can build relationships that last forever.
Speaker 1:And so I know that there is somebody on your team right now who would fix something if they knew it. So please tell them. Do this this week. Do it next week. Do it as soon as you possibly can to give them the feedback to set them up for their future.
Speaker 1:Just as I go back to this episode of Ted Lasso, it it's fascinating because this assistant coach started to then speak up and started to then implement amazing ideas that are helping the team get better because this character felt the confidence of of the leader, of the head coach, and it was all because of the relationship building and all because he was trying to get to know this individual. So, yeah, if he needs to have a difficult conversation, he can because that relationship is built. So I will say this. A lot of things in the world are happening right now. You I see headlines all the time of friends, layoffs, individuals being fired, companies downsizing, you name it.
Speaker 1:What you can do today is you can help that individual grow in their career, help them achieve what they want to achieve by telling them the hard things today. Don't wait. And then if you do have to have difficult conversations, I hope that you've built the relationships necessary so that you can help them through it. They are human beings. They are individuals that their lives are in your hands in so many different ways.
Speaker 1:And yes, you can't control every situation. You can't control what companies do all of the time. But what you can control is how your team operates, how the team feels, the camaraderie that they have. You can make a huge effect on them today or tomorrow. Every day you can wake up and decide, you know what?
Speaker 1:I know that someone on my team needs this. I'm gonna give them this feedback. Do it. Don't wait. And remember to be specific about it.
Speaker 1:Don't speak in general terms, but be specific and ask them, what can I do to help? I say that a lot. What can I do to help? So again, thank you for all your support. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1:The biggest thing that I always say is we have to lead people, lead deeper, and lead well. It's it's huge and paramount. P a t c, it really starts with us, the confidence that we have in ourselves. And from there, once we have that confidence and I know we're not gonna be perfect, and we're gonna run into difficulties as leaders ourselves, but always lean back. You know what?
Speaker 1:I need to have this conversation with this individual, and I feel confident about it. Go into that meeting confident, but also go into that meeting showing that you actually care about that individual and that you truly do wanna make a difference in their career and in their life. So thank you for listening. See you on the next one.