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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
DC: Brand Nerds.
This show is going to be a little different, Brand Nerds. Welcome back to another podcast of Brands, Beats, and Bytes. There are some subjects, Brand Nerds. that are near and dear to my heart. There are some people brand nerds that are near and dear to my heart. In this case, we have both. We have a human, a very dear friend of mine, and also a subject that quite literally, LT, he is the only individual on the planet qualified to discuss this particular subject in the way he is going to discuss it.
So Brand Nerds, hold on to your seats. LT, will you, will you let the folks know who we have the auspicious occasion to have in the building with us on this glorious Friday?
LT: Oh man. So yes, D this is going to be really fun one for us. We have Michael Guth in the building today. Welcome, Guth.
Michael Guth: Thank you. Thank you.
LT: All right. So Guth, we're so happy you are joining us and let us give our Brand Nerds a Twitter version of who you are. So Michael Guth is a truly incredibly accomplished business person and marketer. He matriculated at Harvard where he earns both an undergrad degree in history. Then he goes to work for the New York Mets as a marketing manager before going back to Cambridge, where he earns an MBA in marketing.
He then comes down to Coca Cola HQ working in a variety of roles, including with DC on Sprite, which is a big reason why we have him on today. And oh, by the way, after Coca Cola, he happens to work his way up the marketing ladder and the business ladder, including running sales and marketing, at a place you may know called Madison Square Garden, COO of Opry Entertainment, and now in his current position as CMO of Spectrum Reach. So, D, kick us off further here, man.
DC: Alright, Brand Nerds. Uh, I'm gonna read a couple of things to you all, and, uh, you're gonna be able to guess it. So, I'll read the phrase, and then, Brand Nerds, you all think about the brand. Just do it. We know that's Nike. Think different. Apple. I'm loving it. McDonald's. Melts in your mouth, not in your hands, not in your hands. M&M. A diamond is forever De Beers. We know these, these strap lines, tag lines, because they are enduring. In fact, but for think different Nike's Just do it. Hasn't changed McDonald's. I'm loving it. Decades. M& M's melts in your mouth, not in your hands, more than 50 years. De Beers, a diamond is forever, forever.
Okay, this, this is how long these strap lines have been around, because they are phenomenal. On April 18th of 2024, after a 24 year hiatus, another strap line returned. And that was Obey Your Thirst - Sprite. Launched in 1994 from the creative mind of a gentleman by the name of Lee Garfinkel of Low Lentos at the time.
So that was 1994. He and his team birthed the brand team, uh, the Sprite brand team with that line. When the Sprite brand really started to come to life at a major, major level, not only domestically, but globally, Larry, it did. So not, not only because of the strategy and we had one hell of a strategy, not only because of the way we delved into youth culture, and we were really deep into youth culture and hip hop was a big part of that.
But because the Sprite brand did a partnership with the NBA at a time, Larry, When the NBA was not all that interested in doing a partnership with a baby brand called Sprite talking about "yout." The idea of that came from the, of an NBA Sprite partnership, came from the mind of one man who is in my top three of the most intelligent people I have ever met in my life.
One, Michael Guth. He is my brother, Guth, please tell us what the hell was in your head when you came up with this and what do you think about the tagline coming back?
Michael Guth: So you realize there's anything that I say from this point on is only going to be downhill from that interview.
LT: That's what I was thinking.
Michael Guth: He set you up for me. Nowhere to go for you. There's nowhere to go but down. Um, how great was it to, to get the text back and forth? Uh, when that announcement came out about Obey Your Thirst and reconnecting with so many different people and even talking to people I work with now that are like, Oh, I remember that and can replay the Grant Hill spot, almost to a T.
DC: Yes. Yes.
Michael Guth: Look, I'd say two things. One of which is you said something before, by the way, I'm not going to answer the questions the way that you ask them as nothing's changed. I'm going to answer whatever question I want to answer. So,
LT: so nothing's changed. Brand Nerds.
Michael Guth: So look, I will say this, um, and it was before I got onto the brand, but.
The brand positioning, the strategy behind Sprite is the best positioning of anything that I've ever been part of. And because it wasn't just about obeying your thirst and trusting your instincts, the way the states were, if you remember originally it was images, nothing. Thirst is everything. Obey your thirst.
DC: Correct.
Michael Guth: And why that was so interesting was. Because in countries that was not, we're not as developed from a marketing standpoint, it was only Obey Your Thirst. And it was, it was just the liquid and it was the clean, clear, refreshing. And that was it. And then in other markets, it was. Thirst is everything. Obey Your Thirst, because the mindset was we're going to put you in as hot, right? It was like you're in ski clothes in the desert in a car, and it's all about quenching that thirst. And it was only in other markets where you had images, nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst. And yet it all worked.
It all made sense across the entire globe. And it was the first time, and really the last time that I've ever been part of something that had all those different connections. Um, and so I'd say, so that was so cool. So, so the NBA, so there's the, there's the,
DC: thank you for getting to my,
LT: we're going to make you talk about the NBA.
Michael Guth: So the, there's, there's the strategic answer and the pragmatic answer. The, the, the pragmatic one was I love sports. You know, I had worked for the New York Mets for three years and I, and I sold sponsorships and I understood the value of that association, the value of, um, connecting to some other experience to help further extend that brand's reach.
But beyond that, um, properties like baseball at that time, um, NBA was just starting, there were opportunities to sort of be a tangible representation of your brand that somebody could tap into. And so what I remember back in the, in the day is that we had this new position. He did great. I mean, it, it reenergized the brand and probably did about 7 percent growth, which was, which was nice,
DC: 9, 9%,
Michael Guth: something like something like seven.
And so that's the funny thing, Larry, you know, as well as for all of his whole creative thing, the most quant person I ever worked with at Coca Cola. He knew numbers backwards and forwards more than anybody else period Like scary like savant with with yes with this stuff. Anyways, so the question was how do we get it moving forward consumers liked it But our bottling system didn't like it.
And what's sort of interesting about Coca Cola, as you all, as everybody knows, but, but we're doing the brand marketing, but we're really marketing to a bottler who's ultimately put in the hand of a consumer. And so it's not enough to say we're targeting youth. We have our innovative positioning. It's taking root.
You got to convince them that it makes sense. And it's going to sell more product. And so how do you connect it from a youth position to a bottler who wants to get it into a retail store to get a fourth facing. Right. Let alone a third facing on a cobalt or to be on an end aisle display. So we have to,
LT: and also I have to add this in who really only really cared about having Coke and maybe some diet Coke on the end aisles.
Go on.
Michael Guth: That was it. Right. So how do you, how do you become the third? And so love sports. We're thinking about music is fine, but music. Um, it's hard to, um, merchandise in a store, you know, I tried, I did self liquidating cassettes back in the day, not nearly as successful, uh, uh, brand Coke basketball became a really interesting property.
You know why? Um, there were no helmets.
DC: Um,
Michael Guth: There are only five players on the court. Every single player was an individual. Um, unlike my New York Knicks right now who play a solid team game. Just want to represent the Knicks right now, I feel.
LT: You should right now.
Michael Guth: This is a tough, last night was tough, it was there for the taking.
Uh, Joel Embiid did his thing, but
DC: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the Knicks. Is that the team that's getting ready to lose their series 4 2? That team?
LT: Here we go to
DC: be recorded, right? And this will be played over and over again.
LT: It's going to be played next week. So one of you is going to look really good.
And I'm sorry,
DC: I'm sorry.
Michael Guth: Go ahead.
We're just, we're just happy to be here. You know, one game at a time. Uh, we're going to see it.
LT: Go ahead.
Michael Guth: Um, so look, you had these, you had these, it represented Sprite. There's the individuality. There was a celebration and beyond that, you could actually do deals with players because there weren't as much going on that you could actually create some opportunities.
And so we said, how can we do this? So there was a player part of it, as you recall, but then there was also the backboards and the stand ups and all the other things we did to sort of merchandise brand Sprite in the stores.
DC: Okay. So, so Larry, uh, I love my brother. He's leaving some portions out.
LT: He's totally, will you please, I know he's leaving portions out because he's being Mr. Humble now, please fill in the Brand Nerds of what he really did to like connect those dots. He just gave you the backdrop, which is wonderful.
DC: Okay. It was wonderful. Okay. So he, let me set the stage. The Sprite brand had not grown for nearly a decade. Okay. So first year repositioning and to Michael's point, brilliant repositioning strategy, uh, led by Steve Horn.
Give Steve Horn his due. Give Steve Horn his due. Um, he's the mastermind. And so a brand that had turned around, like a swing at that point, It was probably like a 13 point swing because it was down 2-3 percent before now it's up nine. So what happens is if a, if a kid, cause at that point, Guth was a kid.
So was I. So, uh, what a kid is supposed to come on and go. Let me just ride this rocket ship. This is great. Not Guth. Okay, not not not good. He could have just said, you know, hey, more music stuff, great. Hip hop. Great. We're rolling. And so he thought, no, this is we need to get to the, to the butler piece, but Brand Nerds, there was a problem.
The problem when he came up with the idea of the NBA, Michael did. Is that NBA was a partner of the Coca Cola brand. Coca Cola classic. That's big daddy. Okay. And to that, and up to that point, the Coca Cola brand had never relinquished a property that they did not want to keep. It did not happen. So Guth,
what happened?
Michael Guth: Well, there were, I'm not gonna say there were some throwdowns in the hallways of Coca-Cola . There were, uh, you know, it's a, but there were, it's a classy organization, but it was really that I believe that, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll keep names out, but you know, it was a lot of, do you realize who you are, Sprite, your, your, yes, you're nothing. Yes you are. You know, we do more in growth in a month than you do in a year. So why would you possibly,
DC: yes.
Michael Guth: And, and the answer is, well, that's exactly the point. You're going to do it with or without. And, and if, if you allow the opportunity for us to sort of amplify against this positioning, we're going to see much greater opportunity.
But in full disclosure, that got nowhere. We just kept talking and we just kept complaining until it finally moved up the ladder. And it was Steve. Who was the one, uh, and Steve Coonan, uh, so we got Steve Horn and Steve Coonan as much as we like to take. Steve asked the, asked the question and I was not in the room, so you may have been in the room.
It's now the stuff of legend, which it
DC: is. It is. Yes. So the
Michael Guth: question was at that time, which brand is bigger, Coca Cola or the NBA? And the answer was immediate. It's Coca Cola. There's no question.
DC: Game, set, match.
Michael Guth: And then the second question was what's bigger, the NBA or Sprite? And the answer was equally NBA.
And the third question was, why do you do sponsorships? Do you do it to grow your brand or you do it to grow their brands?
DC: A wrap.
Michael Guth: That was it.
DC: That was it.
Michael Guth: And then it was good luck. All right, let's see what you do with it and see what you're right. But that's really what ended up happening. I think it's an important reminder when people do sponsorships is, is what's the point who's growing, who is the value that you get from it?
And that sort of changed the trajectory. And then we, then, then we started to have some fun. Then we had to figure out, I'll tee this up. Who are we going to associate with? And then, and then how are we going to activate in the local markets to get people excited?
LT: Yes. But before you tee that up, didn't you all, and again, I'm down the hall brand nerds watching all this go on, didn't you also say, Hey, for Coca brand Coca Cola, um, they're going to have you slotted in for like one month, right?
They're going to, you're going to be one month in the year of 12 months. And that's going to be wonderful for that one month. Whereas for Sprite, you guys are going to really be banging the drum for the NBA. The whole year wasn't that part of your argument
Michael Guth: that I had forgotten that part part one was convincing Coca Cola.
DC: That's right.
Michael Guth: Part two is convincing the NBA.
DC: Yes, yes.
Michael Guth: Because, because the NBA, very smart group of people asked the same three questions.
Right. So, so their calculus was it made much more sense to recall the call and we had to say exactly as you said Larry, this is not a game. All Star Weekend, or this is not, this is a 12 month commitment with the brand that so identifies with what your brand is, that we can bring it to life in different ways and really make it part of sort of mainstream in a way that hadn't been done before, but it was a, it was a push.
I don't, you know, you know, better than me, but it was, it was not easy. It was not an easy sell.
DC: They don't want to do it. Um, they, they don't want to do it. Uh, David Stern didn't want to do it. Rest in power. Uh, they, they, and this is where, you know, that's primarily Coonan is, was the interface. Steve Coonan was the interface with them and, uh, eventually, uh, convinced them also in that room where this discussion was taking place that you talked about.
Guth, uh, John Conrad, we got to give a little bit of John Conrad as well. So I, uh, for the Brand Nerds, uh, think about this. This is the point that I admire about, um, about Michael and I would encourage the Brand Nerds who are early in their careers and looking to move up. You, you, you gotta, you gotta determine where you're going to place your bets.
And that means placing your bets on your career. If that hadn't worked. I'm not sure that Guth is sitting in that seat because because he ruffled feathers like together. We ruffled some feathers. And if it hadn't worked, I don't know that anybody gives us a shot to do that again, at least not at the Coca Cola company.
So, but, but as you as you might, as you know, Larry, neither Michael or I have any issues with ruffling feathers. No, no issues ruffling feathers. So
Michael Guth: nor, nor do we have any doubt. We did.
LT: That's right.
Michael Guth: That could have been naive. But this was so perfect and so so obvious to the both of us that our only issue was the ability to convince everybody internally.
Once we got that I don't think we ever doubted it for a moment because also, 'cause we had the data, the other part of it not, it's not just 'cause we, the data had this swagger, we had the data to know that, look in, in a brand environment, when you have consumers loving you at a higher rate than they are buying because they can't get access to it.
That's, that's, that's as good as it gets, right? Yeah. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they think about you aspirationally higher than the way you're delivering in the market. And so we just had to rise to that demand. So we, we knew. If we could get, we knew what would happen if we increased one extra facing in a, in a, in a cobalt, we knew what would happen because we saw what the velocity, wow, velocity, I got chills there for a second back in the day, but we knew, so this was, this wasn't just about, um, strategic alignment and positioning. We had the facts that said, if this happens and we get that take in the market, this is going to fly off the shelf.
DC: Data about this to, to Guth's point, uh, LT repositioning happens just to change in the strategy. No incremental money, uh, 9 percent increase. Second year. Now we're starting to get into some of the, uh, some of the NBA stuff early stages, 17 percent growth. Third year. Now the NBA is starting to see 25% growth. So it's like boom, boom, boom. To to, to goth point. All right, so I wanna make a, uh, another point go. And then I wanna go to this story about Grant Hill and how he came to be . But lemme let, lemme start this. All right. So, uh, so LT, something else that Guth came up with, he talks about the backboards, that sort of a thing, not Oh yeah, it's commonplace now.
Oh, we're gonna redo this cord in the, uh, in the back, in the backboards, right? So Guth came up with this idea of the backboards and then he and the team under his leadership did a, a local market toolkit. Yep. When I tell you, LT, this box, it was, it, it, it looked like a Sprite box. It had a handle on it. Yep.
I remember 'em side of it had all this stuff. That toolkit became the template for all of the toolkits, all of the other brands did because of that tool kit. So Guth
LT: well, look, yeah, but also, but this is important, Michael, and I want to make this point and you guys were so focused on who your consumer was.
So that was going to take the brand, not only from being something that they interface with and obeying your thirst, but was part of their lives, right? Like. To, to get basketball hoops, maybe that they weren't as accessible as before. So Sprite is really experientially part of their life in a full circle kind of way. That was the brilliance of that.
Michael Guth: Well, yes, for sure. But what the interesting thing about the backboards was the consumer there was the bottler and the store owner. Because, because what we couldn't figure out originally is how do we still get those facings?
DC: Yep.
Michael Guth: And so shockingly, if you offer back in the day, if you say there's going, you're going to do a promotion in a store where you're going to give a backboard that's branded Sprite branding, um, and you're going to decorate a whole display with that.
All you need to do is put a couple 12 packs of Sprite on that Coke Diet Coke thing. And guess what? You can give that backboard away. You can keep that backboard. You can do whatever you want. overnight, overnight guarantee installation. In terms of the toolkit, we said we would do these and this was this was redoing outdoor courts that needed to be referred.
LT: And that's what I was referring to
Michael Guth: Putting those backboards and bringing in what we did. That is, we said to the bottlers We have limited ability to do this. So we're not asking you to do it. We're inviting you to put in an entry, right, to ask for permission. And all of a sudden now we create a command.
So now this was something that if we had said we want to do ports in every single market, They would have said we're too busy. We said we're only going to do five. We're only going to do seven. Now, all of a sudden you create a demand. And I think there are two parts to it. One of which is we were consistent with the brand all the way through.
So it wasn't just a Sprite backboard, like those, that graphics and those logos, right? If you remember the graphics were incredible, right? It wasn't just a backboard. It was consistent with the brand. Um, in terms of doing grassroots activation, it wasn't just about grassroots. It was consistent with the brand, just like you were saying, and sort of empowering the consumer or brand, but we were doing in a way that our bottle or a store owner could buy.
LT: Right.
Michael Guth: That was sort of the beauty of it because we created, we understood both consumers. Um, and we, and we tied it together in a way that was consistent from a brand standpoint.
LT: Exactly. Exactly. It was wonderful. All right, D, let's do the Grant Hill. I know you're chomping at this one.
DC: I'm going to go to Grant Hill.
One other quick thing before you go to Grant Hill, again, the data. So as, as, uh, as much as Guth alluded to this, people think about the Sprite brand as all of the creative stuff, and it was highly creative. The strategy and the data is, is, is what led the way for us. And so the reason why Guth LT, you know, this, the brand owners don't know this was so focused on closing that delta of what we call it in the industry at that point, virtual demand, virtual consumption, like up here and a demand.
But, uh, the availability here is because. Our brand had one of the lowest percentages of contribution of people that drank a soft drink three times or more a day. That's your heavy users. We were at 9 percent whereas Mountain Dew and Diet Coke at the highest 32, 33 percent and Coke was in the high twenties.
So we were very low. So Guth was not only looking to close the delta in the demand overall. But to also accelerate frequency of consumption, which could be done by having it more available, particularly in cold locations. Okay. I'm boring. I'm boring to Brand Nerds now. Okay. Let's let's, let's, let's go. Okay.
So that's what's so great about, yeah,
Michael Guth: this is the best.
DC: Okay. This, this, this, this was hilarious. Okay. This is okay. Mr. Mr. Boy Genius over here. Okay. So they bring the, they bring the campaign back, obey your thirst and they bring it back using Anthony Edwards, almost like word for word, frame for frame, what was Grant Hill and Grant Hill?
Grant Hill was in the original spot in 96, actually, not in 94, but in 96. And then also the Olympic year, we might even get into like whole dream team and all that kind of stuff. But anyway, uh, bringing them, uh, uh, bringing, bringing them back. Grant Hill appears, but there was some debate as to whether Grant Hill should be in the original, Obey Your Thirst ads.
Michael Guth: But that's not entirely true. The other, there was no debate, you know, we both talk about, we both talk about data. Um, and very much grounded in this stuff. And so, Darryl, like, I don't, people may not know this, but, but Darryl every year would cut out USA Today drafts, right? And cause a collection of all the players.
So Darryl knew the players inside and out, but Darryl knew everything there was. I understood it, uh, sports in general and, and not as well as Darryl's, but I, I, we all knew, like, we knew. Yeah, we knew who the fans were. We knew who the most popular players and we did all the research and we're like, we got to make a bet.
We got to get it right. Cause we're only gonna get one player. Um, we got to get the right one. We research, we research, we go back and forth. We vet it. We go into Steve Horn's office. Was it Steve or John? I can't remember when I think it was Steve.
DC: Probably Steve.
Michael Guth: It was Steve, right? And it's like, you know what?
We figured it out. We got the player. We've been working through it. We crunched the numbers without any question. A hundred percent. Chris Webber.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
DC: Larry with the same confidence and moxie that we had exhibited on everything else up to that point. Same, same thing.
Michael Guth: Chris Webber. That was, that was the one. Unbelievable. And we're like, all right, we can then for whatever we could get Chris Webber done was like, you know, I forget Chris Webber.
That was a mistake. Crunch numbers again, without question. Without question. Person that most personifies Sprite that's going to take us to that level. Penny Hardaway. Penny Hardaway.
DC: Without question now. Without question, Larry. Before Q scores,
yeah, we struck, we were, our own Q score struck out again.
Michael Guth: So we're like, I know Grant Hill,
LT: And Brand Nerd. One of the great things about this is we couldn't say this at the time. Now you're hearing, you know, now I love worry. This back, back room story.
Michael Guth: We were, Larry, we were, we were humbled. So at the end we're like, we still think we're not. Like we were sure about Chris Weber. We were pretty positive about Penny. Grant, we're like, I think would be pretty good. We're not nearly the swagger that looking back, right? No, because he, he blew, there's nobody who A thought he was gonna be the pro before he got the injuries that he was, but no one thought he would catch fire across the country from a popularity standpoint that he did.
And the fact that he, the fact that he was so just unique in every aspect became the perfect person in an unexpected way for Sprite. And so that one, we thought about the other stuff. We got very fortunate, uh, with Grant and he was also a good actor. Which was, yeah.
LT: Well, Brand Nerds there's another thing here. This is point in time. You guys got. What you're really saying is you're really smart, but you got lucky, right? And there were a lot of things that happened. We don't need to relitigate Chris Webber and Penny Hardaway, what was going on at that time also, and with injuries and some other things that happened off the court with Chris Webber.
DC: Family members. Remember that?
LT: Yes. Right. So grant you guys got that Detroit Pistons, Grant Hill. Who was the man, right? And, you know, and this comes from a North Carolina guy. Like, Grant Hill was just, he was awesome in every way. And, and that was your first sort of, like, stake in the ground pillar to then work off of that, which was really perfect. Um, and let's be honest, too, with his wife being in the music business, like, the whole thing really worked. You know,
DC: He wasn't marry then.
LT: Oh, but they were together, weren't they?
Michael Guth: But that, you know what, that gives us even more. It, it, like, it, it, it fell into place. I mean, I think what was interesting was the Grant Hill commercial, which was in its simplicity, um, and again, you know, I do like the real thing.
You know, I like the original. I, I, I appreciate it, and I think it's actually interesting, maybe we'll talk about it, about why they brought it back just as an outsider in terms of moment of time. I think it's, there's a lot of similarities to it. But, you know, Grant was great, and that whole Grant Hill drinks Sprite and a question mark.
And then it was Grant Hill drinks Sprite and then Grant Hill dunks. And, and then, and then the back and forth was amazing. It took off and really it was great for the brand, but like you said, a North Carolina fan, there's no Knicks, no New York bodega or supermarkets put in Grant Hill standups. Right. It's a Knicks market. And so what we ended up doing after that is recognizing that part of the individuality of basketball is also the passion each market has for their players. And so we ended up coming up with the amount of money that we could parcel out. And it was not the stars of the team
LT: Right.
Michael Guth: It was the up and comers. It was the young players that we had identified that could represent our brand. And I wish I could remember and go back and enlist the players that we had, but we. Had a lot more hit
DC: in the business, the best roster.
Michael Guth: You're the first to do it. And each of those things. So you have that player, you'd have a standup, those standups could go to a local store owner could be given away for promotions.
It would create another reason to build something around it. Um, we created interesting barrel coolers. Everything was sort of put together, but those, but those players became an important thing, but it started our third choice.
DC: All right. So, uh, uh, Brand Nerds. Uh, if you're fortunate throughout your careers, you will find yourself on a project that might be recognized as one of the best in your department.
If you've been more lucky to be considered one of the best in your company, if even more fortunate, it might be considered one of the best in your industry. But on very rare occasions, will you work on something that will transcend all of that and set a blueprint for how all companies start to do marketing, um, and communications and, uh, and data analysis and strategy.
So Sprite was one of those projects for Michael and I still more rare is to look back at it and say, if they removed that, this person would have happened the same way. And I'm telling you all, if you would have removed Michael Guth, and I'm surely, surely glad that did not happen. You do not have the Sprite today, that we all know, that we all know and love. You don't have that.
Michael Guth: You know, you know, I have a very positive sense of self.
DC: Uh, yes, I do.
Michael Guth: The reality of it is, and this is, this is sincere. It was the two of us. Like, we were kindred spirits that came from very different perspectives. And the combination and the refusal to back down is what made it work.
It wasn't It was, it was the combination. It was, it was you, your inherent sort of instinctive understanding of where the world of music was going. It was, it was the intersection that we had in sports. It was, it was the combination of the data that we were both sort of fascinated about, and then the sports background from an activation that I had, it was that combination.
DC: Yeah.
Michael Guth: Really, like, to be honest, like, I think that's that was what the beauty of it was, is because we both were like minded from a strategy, but at different perspectives that we folded together in a way that became really. Something magical and something that we look back now like I remember these things I can't remember last week and I can remember all those different because it was so, um, and this is not 2020 hindsight like this week, exactly the way that we thought it was going to happen.
Not, not, not the Grant Hill Park but all the other stuff was exactly how we imagined it because we kept challenging each other think that way.
LT: D, you what do you think about that.
DC: Thank you, Michael. Um, I, I, I concur. Um, I, uh, I don't know that I have ever had a more symbiotic relationship with someone that I've worked with where It was literally a mindmeld, particularly with someone who I thought to be so different than myself.
And we, we, we were like, uh, we, we were like a, a, that, that version of marketing's odd couple, we were quite the odd couple, but they knew, uh, I think no matter what we were doing together, some folks would say, okay. I might be able to try to battle this one, one dude by himself or this other dude by himself, but these two knuckleheads together, no, I'm out.
Michael Guth: So, so Larry, first time, can I take a tangent? I'm going to take it. I just want to ask first. So the first memories I have of Darryl is a guy who said nothing. I won't do his mannerisms, but we all know, you know.
LT: He's removing his glasses, Brand Nerds, that's definitely one of them.
Michael Guth: Uh, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.
So, he's in his office, piles of paper, terrible posture, just crunching numbers. Like, maybe, like, you remember, is it office space, the guy with the stapler? Like, that was Harold. He was just whispering, And because, because here's why, because he was like, I'll be damned. If there's anybody here, who's going to know more about this business than me.
Okay. And so his superpower was, was not his finger on the pulse of culture. It was, he knew damn more than anybody else about our business. And so he was crunching away. So I go, I introduce, I sort of. We're talking and he's like, let me just tell you one thing. You, you got to make sure you don't get caught up in the numbers and you get caught up in your computer office.
And the next thing, you know, you've missed a meal. You've missed lunch. It's now dinner. You're going to get tired. Like you got to make time for yourself. Right? He's trying to coach me and I was like, Darryl, the one thing you need to know about me. What is it, Darryl? I eat. I eat. That was the first, and that was it. And then we were off to the races. That was it. I eat. I eat. You got Spring Baby, you got DC, and I was II eat.
DC: Oh my goodness!
LT: That's great. Yeah. And I have to tell you, my view of watching you all, like, I would see you all go into meetings, and of course, you know, um, seeing you guys operate, and, uh, thinking the world of both of you individually, but then collectively, I just remember thinking, oh boy.
That's great. This is a formidable duo and, you know, seeing you guys work that NBA thing, I remember having the lunch conversations with you all about as this was in process. And, uh, and so Brand Nerds, what's incredible is that these two gentlemen, the things that they both have, Horsepower intelligence, both of them work ethic in a huge way, right?
And also understanding how to walk into rooms and see what's happening in a room, meaning EQ and when they should exert themselves, when they should lay back. Right. And that's what, that's what you were relating to. Cause D, you know, he will lay back at first to read the room. That's where you were going. And so it was.
Michael Guth: He thought he was so smart in terms of his, uh, uh, uh, and then you knew he was waiting. He was waiting to drop the hammer and you just do it. So I'd watch it. And sometimes you knew how you saw it. Like you just start laughing. Cause like, here it comes. Three. One. Uh huh. Yeah, you know, or, I don't know, maybe, and that was it. Game over. I have, as you can tell, I have far less restraint, which is why we worked really well, because it would be, Mm hmm, Mm hmm, and it depends, and you probably know this, like the over under, if he does more than four Mm hmms, that means he disagrees. If it's like, Mm hmm, Mm hmm, Mm hmm, then you're in good shape. Then you're in good shape.
LT: Oh, good. Oh, he's so he's so right. You know that.
DC: Yeah, he is. He he he knows me better than most.
Michael Guth: The other one is, you know, when, when, when, when a baby, when, when, when a child is hurt and the amount of time it takes for that first whale is like when you know, it's serious or not.
Like when it's like a five sandwich, everyone's like,
then you knew the longer that was, it was going to be trouble as he was doing his time. But, uh, no, those were great stuff. And what's so fun is that I hadn't thought about half of this stuff for a while, although I probably use the stuff I do every single day.
DC: Yeah.
Michael Guth: I don't know what you guys thought. I thought, I think reintroducing Obey Your Thirst, the concept behind it, given where the world is right now, I think is really, really smart.
As much to trust your instincts as much as obey your thirst and think they need to really find that balance what I do Larry
LT: I was gonna ask you because you went right to it. I was gonna ask you all that I totally agree with what you said I don't know Brand Nerds again, if you go on YouTube and check out the spot I'd love go check out the latest spot with Anthony Edwards It's a wonderful spot, but then go back to the Grant Hill spot.
And by the way, I did this, um, my, my son, Jake was in and, uh, as DC affectionately refers to him as his nephew, and he's a real basketball kid. And I showed Jake the original spot and then showed him the Anthony Edwards spot. And there's one thing missing in the new spot that I noticed. And you just said it, Guth, there's no trust your instincts. What do you guys think about that?
Michael Guth: No, that's yeah.
DC: No, you go, you go.
Michael Guth: No, I think that's it. I think, I think that beyond just. The Greenville spot was a beautiful spot from a pacing standpoint.
LT: Yes.
Michael Guth: It was, it was, it was the whole, if you go back to the beginning about the positioning, the positioning of the United States was really images, nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst, which is about trusting your instincts.
DC: Yep.
Michael Guth: It wasn't about obeying your thirst. Obeying your thirst was the payoff of what happens when you trust your instincts.
DC: Correct.
Michael Guth: And so, with Grant Hill, as, They see this and see someone who's practicing and, and, and, you know, outdoor court, rough work and hard paying dues, you know, and then as our, and I haven't seen the spot, but I mean, but I'm not, right.
He, he crushed the cannon and sinks one into the trashcan. Right. And I think I can do this and then doesn't. And it is a lot that you've got to trust your instincts. You can't rely on others, right. You can't do. And so I think, I think it was a little bit, I wanted them to enjoy that in the new spot. I think, I think it's the right position.
I really, I really think it's the right time for that. Trusting your instincts and the mental basis. What Sprite because of the product is, is, is cool, crisp and refreshing. And has that has, has the right to sort of be in that position. Um, I think they have a real opportunity. I think it's really smart and I'm excited to sort of see where it evolves.
Um, it's also great. It's a great reminder to the past, too. So I love that as well.
DC: Right. All right. As Kornheiser would say, we're going to get you out of here on this. Uh, Tony Kornheiser from, uh, Pardon the Interruption. Thank you. Really?
Michael Guth: Does he have to qualify all the time on that? Thank you, Darryl. I appreciate that.
I know, I know who Kornheiser is. Thank you.
DC: This is for the Brand Nerds, dude. This is for the Brand Nerds.
Michael Guth: All right, fine. I apologize. Brand Nerds, I apologize.
LT: No, you know, I'm glad someone else is giving you shit other than me. Go ahead.
DC: He's been giving me shit for 30 years, okay? All right. So, uh, Guth two questions for you as we get you out of here.
One, looking back to then and thinking about your career up to now, if you were giving advice to Brand Nerds in their mid twenties, in their career, seeking to grow question one is what advice would you give to them? And then question two, sorry to stack these questions, questions to question two is given your knowledge throughout your career and your indispensable role on Sprite and love of Sprite.
What advice would you give to the brand team today?
Michael Guth: Oh boy. The first one.
Wow. You know, look, a couple of the, one of, one of which I tell everybody at that age is to be relentlessly curious. Always ask why always sort of, always sort of look to sort of see what's underneath and why things happen and why could, you know, how could they happen in different ways? I think we used to joke a Coca Cola, no one got fired.
Uh, no one got promoted by doing the exact same thing as the person before. Uh, it wasn't always the best. Result it forced you to say, how can I make things better? How can I create value? So being curious is about how you create values particularly in your 20s You're not supposed to be the expert in everything, but where can you create value in a thing?
Uh, the other thing I tell everybody is understand what you're passionate about What is your thing? It wasn't for me It wasn't about working at coca cola. I've always been fascinated by the intersection of of of consumers You With the things that they're passionate about and how I can sort of take complicated things and tell simple stories.
So that's where the New York Mets. And what I found great about Coca Cola was at that time, there was not a water. There was not liquids that would make you better other than having some sugar and some caffeine and other pieces. And so what was the associated equity that would make me want to hold a can in my hand and say, this is me.
And so it was connected to sports and music and entertainment, and that was what I was passionate about. And through my career, it was understanding that intersection. And so that really helped me. Even when I was a caterer in college, I think understanding what drives you so that you can find opportunities to do things that you're passionate about will make you as successful as you can possibly be.
That, and really think about how can I create value. Do not wait. For someone to say, here's how it can be. Look at it. Be curious, ask questions and find your path. So that's what I say. Number one, as always to the Sprite brand team, I love the positioning right now. I think I said, I think it is really, really smart, but I think, um, and I, I, I'm curious to see, I think they need to look at the entire positioning.
Images, nothing, everything Obey Your Thirst was the magic. It wasn't Obey Your Thirst. And so, so, so be mindful, take your time with it. Um, because you know, and I'm curious, I haven't seen what your Obey Your Thirst days are going to be. I've been to the website. I'm sort of curious to sort of see what that means, what it represents, but the idea of understanding that, and then also understanding how that can tie back to.
Your customers, not the consumer, but those customers in terms of what you can do to sort of drive the product off the shelf. And so how do you sort of connect those dots? And so my guess is the obey your Thursdays will help do that. But I think it's, I think it's smart. I think the time is really, uh, is right for it.
And I think they can do some really good things. I think Anthony Edwards is the right player. Uh, he's fantastic. And, uh, uh, I think he's showing that in these playoffs, but I think beyond that he off the court as well. I think he's terrific. So I'm just, I just, I wish them the best of luck and just. Take the whole thing. Don't take one bite. Take the whole, take the whole thing.
DC: Uh, I don't know that there's much more to say with that close, Larry. Uh, I will add this, uh, the director on the Sprite brand is Brian Rogers. So I just want to shout out Brian Rogers, the head of creative on the Sprite brand. Today is AP Cheney. So Brian, AP, rest of the, uh, the rest of the team.
Um, congratulations. You wish you the best. And then, uh, uh, thank you. Um, you intellectually challenged me. You intellectually stimulated me, um, and above all of that. You made it fun. There was not a day that I came into that building. Yeah, I did. I did not look forward to laughing with you and debating with you and.
It was just a blast, man. Just a blast.
LT: Oh yeah. Brand news. They had fun. I watched it, man. I sometimes walk by and they'd be laughing. I'm like, what's going on here? What am I missing?
Michael Guth: That's in a nutshell. I, you know, if you, if you find your passion and you get to do it every single day and forget to never, you know, you never work a day in your life, but you know what, for those years, pretty close,
pretty close.
LT: And, and also goth is finding people like yourself, finding people that you just, you know, connect with and that, that are, are team people that don't care about who's getting the credit. You know, that's just doing what's right for the business. Man. We talk about that a lot and you know, you and, uh, you and D always personified that in my mind.
Michael Guth: Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for
the trip down memory lane
DC: Guth, you're the best brother.
Michael Guth: I got you. Thanks Larry.
LT: All right. And this is my close. Thanks for listening to Brands, beats and Bites. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl D. C. Cobbin and Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbinobb and Jade Tate and Tom Dioro.
DC: The podfather.
LT: That is he. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple podcast, if you were so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.