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This podcast is an avenue to dialogue about the totality of the food experience. Everything from gardening, to preparing, to eating, to hospitality, to the Lord’s Table, with an eye toward how this act that we all have to engage in helps us experience the transformative power of God’s love and what it means to be human.
Episode 15 (Derrick Weston)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp. And in this podcast, we explore the table, food, eating, and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another. And today I'm thrilled to be joined by Derek Weston.
A little bit about Derek. He has long been engaged as a community organizer, focused on growing food and addressing food insecurity. Now he serves as the theological education and training coordinator for Creation Justice Ministries. A documentary filmmaker, producer, and co host of the Food and Faith podcast, Derek is a firm believer in using one's voice and the media to inspire and enact social change.
He's also the co author of The Just Kitchen with Anna Woofenden. He and his wife Shannon have four children and live outside of Baltimore, Maryland. So thanks for joining me today, Derek.
Derrick Weston: Happy to be with you.
Andrew Camp: Yeah, no, it's been fun connect, beginning to connect with other food and faith podcasters and authors.
And, um, you and I found each [00:01:00] other on face or I found you, I think because of your book. And so you've been gracious enough to listen to some of my podcasts, um, which I really appreciate. And so it's, um, it's great to connect and just sort of hear you, your story. Um, so what, let's begin there then, like what, how did you begin into this food and faith ideas?
Derrick Weston: Yeah. Um, it's been an interesting journey. For me, it started with sort of a dark night of the soul period, um, going through some, uh, going through a really hard divorce, going through, um, some, some, Professional upheaval. Um, and during that dark night of the soul period, really found a lot of comfort in gardening.
They found a lot of comfort in having my hands in the dirt. Um, and I'm one of those people who, when I do something, I throw myself into it. I geek out about it. I read everything. I watch everything I can. [00:02:00] Um, and, and so in that, um, I started thinking more about, um, food access and food justice. Um, I at a time very recently moved to Baltimore, which has a pretty thriving urban agriculture scene and, um, connecting with people who are doing just really amazing work around, um, food justice, um, food access.
And I had a light bulb moment where I realized that. All of the justice issues that I care deeply about had some sort of either land or food component, whether that's thinking about agriculture's impact on the environment, whether that's thinking about racial justice and the inequalities that exist in terms of food access, um, even, you know, historically, if you think about uh, Access to land, you know, so [00:03:00] much of our, um, so much of that was rooted in patriarchy and, um, uh, uh, misogyny.
So, so many of the justice issues I cared about just connected to food and land. And then I started connecting with other people of faith. who were having similar conversations. Um, I got the opportunity to be a part of a fellowship at Wake Forest, um, hosted by a gentleman named Fred Bahnson, um, uh, regenerate fellowship on food, faith and ecology.
And in that space, I recognize that there were a lot of people of faith who were having these conversations and they were doing really cool things. Um, people who were doing church community gardens, people who were doing really innovative feeding ministries, um, people who were, uh, Just finding new life in scripture, [00:04:00] um, through the soil.
And I, and I should, I should add to that sort of during the dark, that dark night of the soul period for me, scripture reading was really hollow. And it was one of those times where, you know, if you ever go through a hard period of life, um, Scripture becomes sort of bumper sticker platitudes from people.
And that really wasn't resonating for me. But then all of a sudden I start meeting people who are making the connections between the agrarian writing of scripture and the food justice issues of today. And all of a sudden the Bible became alive again. And that, that was such an important part of this for me, was being able to read scripture again, but read it through a different lens and have it reinvigorate me in ways it hadn't in such a [00:05:00] long time.
So, being able to make those connections, um, was just, uh, incredibly rewarding. Uh, important for me and getting to meet people like Nate Stuckey at Princeton Seminary, who's doing a program called Farminary and recognizing that there are people who are connecting all these dots of, of food and, um, theological education and, and vocation.
As we think about the ways that the church is changing. So just getting to immerse myself in those conversations and, and meet great people. Um, that's a lot of really where it started for me.
Andrew Camp: That's cool. Um, and your story echoes a story, you know, I, um, the episode right before you is with Adam McHugh, who.
is a former pastor who turns to wine, and he also mentions the importance of soil and getting his hands dirty in his own transformation. Um, so what, so there seems to be this core correlation of, you know, we're [00:06:00] former pastors who are going through these hard times and they start getting their hands dirty in soil.
Like, what is it about soil that was regenerative for you, um, and might be regenerative maybe for other Christians or even maybe former pastors who are going through, um, rough times.
Derrick Weston: Yeah, such a good question. And there is something deeply profound about soil. Um, you know, if we even just go to the Hebrew, um, we go to the first, you know, the creation stories, um, particularly the, I guess the second creation stories in Genesis two of Adam being created from the Adamah, that we are at our, core.
We are soil. Um, and the reminders that Adam gets from God that, um, he will return to soil at some point that [00:07:00] working the soil is where his food is going to come from. That in soil, we get to see the cycle of life. Death and new life. Um, if you think about compost, if you think about the way things decompose and become nutrients for new things, we get to experience all of these kind of really big theological issues in this really concrete way.
And I think that's, that's where soil has been so life giving for me to actually, um, find myself being a co creator with God, um, in the garden. to find myself, um, recognizing that, you know, you can know all of the science that you want about gardening and it's still a miracle every time that a seed germinates.
It's still a miracle every time that a flower blooms. It's still a miracle every [00:08:00] time this This cycle, this really pernicious cycle that is very dependent on temperature and rain and sun has sustained life for so long. Um, you, I think one of the spaces where the 21st century church has really allowed us to, has really failed us is in awe.
And one of the things that I rediscovered in the garden was awe and wonder. And I think that was such an important part of the reinvigoration of my faith, was the rediscovery of awe and wonder.
Andrew Camp: No, that's important, you know, because I do, we talk about being awe and wonder struck by God and Jesus, but it feels at times You know, and devoid of the physicality or the embodiedness of which we're [00:09:00] situated.
And so I think that maybe is gardening does help us, you know, like you said, re remember that we are, but dust you were made from Earth. Like, you know, like, um, you know, and gardening is this cycle that we can't control. You know, and I remember once we, you know, this was before we moved to Flagstaff, we had a little garden vegetable garden in, in Utah, and one year we had composted leftover Halloween pumpkins.
And then we used that compost. And then all of a sudden we noticed we had pumpkins growing like . And they were the plants that did the best, not the plants we tried to cultivate, but the plants that were accidentally composted, that we replanted and all of a sudden sprouted and we grouped. Pumpkins, not of our own doing, you know,
Derrick Weston: I've been there.
Andrew Camp: Yeah,
Derrick Weston: I have, I have this long history. And in fact, um, [00:10:00] my, my, my current garden right now is filled with potato plants because I grew potatoes last year and apparently didn't harvest very well. And if you don't harvest all the potatoes, you're going to get new potatoes.
Andrew Camp: Okay.
Derrick Weston: So, um, yeah, but I, but I think that that also just kind of, you know, um, I've had the same experience where the healthiest tomato that I've, I've grown tomato plant that I've grown has been the one that grew out of the bottom of my compost bin.
Yeah. And, um, you know, again, I think part of the other beautiful part of that is it. Teaches us to let go of control that we try so hard to control so many things. And gardening reminds us that we're in control of precious little.
Andrew Camp: Yep. But it requires still intentionality. It requires you can't accidentally.
Yes. [00:11:00] You and I have accidentally grown some things, but. Because we were intentional about composting are doing other things that set up conditions, right? So it's like you can control it. You can't control it, but there are you can't just hope for a garden. Yes. No, no magically appear true. Sure So then to come back then to your to this book You've written on on the just kitchen like what where did this book grow out of and?
Um, you know, what's some big themes from the book?
Derrick Weston: Yeah. Um, so I started, um, one of the great people that I met, um, or reconnected with actually from, uh, the regenerate fellowship was my friend, Anna Woofenden, who started a church in Los Angeles called the garden church. And, um, she and my friend Sam became, uh, started the food and faith podcast.
Um, and I. First came on as podcast [00:12:00] editor, um, because everyone knows who's done a podcast, what a painful task that can be to edit a podcast. And it felt like a thing I could do for my friends. Um, and then I came on as a co host and around the time that I came on as a co host, I had a conversation with Anna and Sam and I said, you know, You all have done a wonderful job of talking to people about where food comes from, um, how it's grown and how we do that in a way that's equitable and, and just.
And, um, and we've, you've talked a lot about what happens at the table. We've talked a lot about the fellowship that happens in the community that's built at the table, but there hasn't been a lot of conversation on your podcast about cooking and what happens in that space between where things are grown and where things are eaten.
So that was, that was like one of the first conversations we had when I came on as a, as a co host, um, then Anna was [00:13:00] approached by a publisher. She has written a great book called, um, this is God's table, which is her story about the garden church. Um, but so, so she was approached by a publisher about this.
Idea of writing a book about cooking and she really just wasn't into it at all But she called me and she tells me about this conversation with his publisher And I'm a person who typically like needs a lot of space to think On an idea before I generate some ideas, but in that conversation I was just like Overflowing with ideas about what this book could be and so over the course of this phone call Anna goes from Definitely not wanting to write this book to wanting to write this book with me.
I'm like, okay, let's, let's give that a try. Um, so what it really became about is this idea of how do we bring our values into the actual act of cooking? How do we [00:14:00] bring the things that we care about? How do we bring our stories? How do we bring our histories? How do we bring the ways that we care about the world?
How do we bring Our theology into the kitchen. How do we bring, um, blessing and prayer and meditation and mindfulness? Um, how do we bring, you know, our environmental consciousness? How do we bring, um, the consciousness of, of power dynamics into the kitchen? Um, since the book has come out, we've done these, um, we've done this exercise where we ask people to think about a kitchen that has been formative for them.
And, um, you know, people think about, uh, usually people think about kitchens from their, their childhoods and I've asked people, uh, in various groups of, of those kitchens and those spaces you're thinking of how many of the people [00:15:00] cooking when you think of those kitchens, how many of them were women and asking, Is that a justice issue?
Is that a conversation that we should be having? Um, so really just kind of thinking about the ways that the way that we cook, and I know that you're, you're a chef. And so, uh, you know, I'm, uh, when you get a chance to read the book, I'd love to have a little bit more reflection from you, but, you know, um, just, you know, cooking can be such a, uh, a mindless chore.
One of the things that happened, um, Around the time that we started writing the book, um, the pandemic hits, right? And my, my wife was, my wife was a pastor and she was going to an office and then she would come home and cook and that would sort of be her transition to, from being at work to being at home.
When the pandemic happens and we're all at home all the [00:16:00] time and our, and our kitchen just sort of becomes this assembly line of, of meals and, and the joy of cooking completely left her. And, uh, fortunately I was working on the book about cooking. So I stepped up and, and thinking about how we can go from making, you know, part of this process was thinking about how do we go from, um, Making cooking this chore, um, to making it more of a ritual, making it more of a, um, a liturgy, making it more of this, uh, of the space where we get to participate in the continuity of life, particularly for the people that we love and care about.
So that's some of what we're trying to do with the book.
Andrew Camp: No, that sounds, yeah, because cooking when you have a family, you know, and if, you know, Both, you know, parents, or if you're a single [00:17:00] parent, like, and you're working, you know, trying to get food on the table can be a, a mindless chore and like, I just came home from work.
Like I got to get food on the table or my five and seven year old daughters are going to just blow their ever loving minds, you know,
Derrick Weston: like,
Andrew Camp: so how do we, how do we then, Because not every day can probably be this joy filled ritual thing, right? Like, much like reading scripture, sometimes we, or in the spiritual exercises, sometimes we just do it to, to do it.
That's right. But what, what did you find are some small things that can help?
Derrick Weston: Yeah. Um, first off, and I'm so glad that you said that, because the first, one of the things that we say at the beginning of the book, we say at the end of the book, and we try to repeat throughout, is We have to give ourselves a lot of grace.
Um, the, the system is rigged [00:18:00] against us and we've got to give ourselves a lot of grace and there's no perfect way of doing this. But one of the things is, you know, for me, whenever possible is to slow down, um, is to slow down the process. Um, and so, um, sometimes that means, you know, giving myself a little bit more time so that, you know, dinner is on the table at dinnertime.
Um, some of that, sometimes that means that like, Yeah, dinner was this the chore that I had to do last night to feed the family Breakfast this morning where I'm making myself an omelet can be a time where I can reflect on the the eggs and the people who raised the chickens that gave me the eggs and the people who Grew the tomatoes that go into the omelette and things of that nature.
Um, so part [00:19:00] of it is pace, right? Some of it is intentionality. You know, a lot of it is, is what I think of it is, is inviting other people and other voices into your kitchen. Like when I'm cooking a recipe, one of the recipes, um, uh, so, so I interviewed, we interviewed a bunch of people, um, many of them through the podcast and, uh, so many people give like family recipes and they, when you talk, when you talk to people about their family recipes, they speak almost as if the person whose recipe they're cooking is in the kitchen with them.
And I, I recognize that that is a, that is a. Really powerful tool, um, that when we, when we cook a recipe that we got from someone else, in some ways, we're inviting them into the kitchen with us. Um, and that can be true of our family, you know, like a mother or grandparent. [00:20:00] But that also can be true of a culture.
If we are, um, you know, thinking a lot, I've been thinking a lot more about, um, African American culture and cuisine and bringing that into my cooking. Um, you know, we, I, we had, um, uh, um, One of our authors is Filipino and thinking about how he brings Filipino and Asian culture into his cooking and thinking about all the ways that we're inviting those voices into our space, um, and honoring their presence in our space, right?
Honoring the gift of having them in our space. I think that's, that's really important. And, you know, again, then we're also inviting the people who grew the food. We're also inviting the people for whom we're, we're ultimately cooking. You know, I often times, I'm trying to be very mindful of the taste of the people for whom I'm [00:21:00] cooking.
And I do that because I love them. And I do that because I care about them. And I do that, um, Oftentimes we'll make alterations to things I'm making because of the health of the people for whom I'm cooking, you know, it becomes a prayer for them essentially in that space of cooking. So, um, that's, that's, that's part of how we do it is, is just, uh, part of it is slowing down and part of it is just inviting, um, inviting other people, inviting other voices and other stories into the space with us.
Andrew Camp: I love that idea of the invite invitation of other stories and. Invitation, um, being both rich and beautiful, but probably also there is that invitation of the pain and the sorrow, you know, because you guys tie it all to justice. And, um, I think one thing I've learned from this podcast and, uh, Somebody just recently asked me and it's like the broken systems we have, like, um, because, you know, for [00:22:00] me growing up and, you know, throughout food and faith and this table and kitchen has always been the sense of joy and belonging and love.
Like, you know, there's a lot of positivity associated with it and there's nothing wrong with that. But there also is something I, I don't have an experience of, of the pain or not having access or not. the justice issues. And so I think how, how do we then begin to cultivate a sense of justice in the kitchen?
Um, for those of us who, who, again, we don't have, that's not been part of our experience, but we want to be aware or want to become more cognizant of, of not just racial reconciliation out on the streets, but even in our own kitchen. So how does that, How do we do that?
Derrick Weston: It's a really important question and there's a couple of different ways that I'm going to answer that. One is [00:23:00] gratitude. I think first it's important that that again, part of getting out of the mindlessness of eating that is often a part of our culture and food as fuel and food as nutrients and really like in some ways devaluing food in our lives.
Um,
part of recognizing the brokenness of the system, I think, is. We take time for gratitude for the things that we do have. We take time for the access that we might have to fresh vegetables, quality meat, people to eat with all of those sorts of things. So I think that's part of it, too. I think just in the ways that we can invite, um, our own story into the kitchen.
I think we can invite invite stories that aren't our stories into the kitchen. When we cook, you know, so many of [00:24:00] the, um, um, Uh, you know, I think a great example of this is, um, Michael Twitty, um, and his writing in general is just phenomenal and has been incredibly formative for me. But I think about his most recent book, Kosher Soul, um, which is both inviting people into the experience of a black man, but inviting people into the experience of a Jewish black man.
Yeah, and and inviting people to experience intersectionality through the food that's being created and and and by being invited into that story, you're also being invited into those struggles. Um, you know, when we when we make the food of, uh, When we replicate the foods that he, like he often does when he replicates the foods of, of the, um, of the South during [00:25:00] enslavement, um, that is in some ways bringing the story of the enslaved into the kitchen.
Um, when we, when we cook the foods that are, um, from the home home countries Migrants who are in the, in this country now, we bring the stories of their migration into our, into our kitchen. Mm-Hmm. . And, and we can honor that. And I think that brings awareness. And I think awareness often then leads us to action.
Um, but I, I think it's, uh, uh, and so that's one of the wonderful things about food. Um. Is that it allows us sort of this, not just a safe entry point, but a really beautiful entry point into what can be hard conversations. Um, and, and, and if we allow it to be that, it can be, um, it can be a real [00:26:00] bridge. It can be a real bridge to, um, Conference confronting some of the really hard parts about our systems and the really hard parts about our culture and the really hard parts about ourselves
Andrew Camp: No, for sure.
And as you were talking, I, I was reminded just of just how important remembering the stories are and you know, I was looking back over some Passover materials and, you know, and that the Passover for the Jewish people to this day is not about remembering something long since past, but reliving and reentering into this story that has defined them.
Um, and that's what the Lord's Supper is supposed to do for us as Christians. We, um, but we've somehow forgotten the story, it seems, or we, we live unstoried, unhistorical lives. It feels like when it [00:27:00] comes to food. Um, and so that's where it's so challenging that food is just this, again, a means for fuel or it's a means of just, Oh, I can go to a Thai restaurant and have Thai food without ever thinking about Thai culture, Thailand or Thailand, you know, or like I can, I want good tacos, but I don't think of what, Has gone into those, you know, Latinos cooking great tacos for me, you know, cause you, you talk about in your book at the beginning that it is, there's so much inequity in the kitchens, you know, and you quote Anthony Bourdain that, you know, most of the food you eat is going to be at a restaurant is going to be cooked by Latino.
Like white Latinos are immigrants and many of them undocumented. And as a person who's worked in the restaurant world, like that is absolutely a hundred percent true. Um, and so how, like as Americans who aren't story [00:28:00] people, how, Is there a way to then think, how can the kitchen then be a place of stories, um, for us and to begin to think about how we are shaped by stories, not just of ourselves, but of many people?
Derrick Weston: Yeah, I think that's such a, such a good question. Um, because I think food in fact becomes, is one of the, um, Easier ways to engage story, I think, again, if we allow it to be right, if we, if we just are going to, um, a part of this is changing the narrative we have about food right now, and that is that food is fuel and that we're, that we're a machine that needs fuel.
And so food is fuel. Um, and that that fuel can be reduced to nutrients and [00:29:00] calories. Um, and that, um, and that food is cheap, right? That food is, is, is inexpensive. I think part of what we have done. done. Part of the destorying of food is, is food being inexpensive. Um, and we don't value the things that, that we don't pay for.
That is just part of our, part of our being as, as Americans, that we don't value the things that we don't pay for. And we, we pay a lower percentage of Of income on food than that, any, uh, than any people in the history of history. Um, so part of what we need to bring back is, um, you know, recognizing that everything comes from a place.
You know, everything comes from, [00:30:00] from, uh, has an origin story, right? That, that we need to start telling our foods origin stories of our, our superhero origin stories of our foods, um, that, um, There's, there's complexity, and there is, there's struggle, and there is journey, and, um, I think that one of the real fears that I think a lot of people have is that there are stories that are being lost, um, that we're, we're not talking to, um, Our, our grandparents, we're not talking to, um, our elders about the foods that often sustained them to, um, you know, again, struggling, um, excuse me, surviving migrations of all kinds of [00:31:00] migrations, you know, thinking about our country, um, surviving enslavement, surviving segregation, surviving, um, Genocide.
If you talk to our, our native, our native and indigenous brothers and sisters, um, that those stories are, are really important and, and that they actually, um, enhance the importance of food when we can sit around and tell a story. I mean, everyone, everyone kind of rags on the idea that You know, any more, if you're going to find a recipe, you on a blog, you have to go through the pages and pages of story.
But I, I, I actually think that behind that is a really positive impulse of reconnecting narrative to food and reconnecting story to food and, and reconnecting ourselves to story. I also think, [00:32:00] and this is, this is, I don't know if this is a uniquely American thing, but it's certainly, um, a uniquely dominant culture thing is that we have to also connect with the stories that make us uncomfortable.
And I think that's, that's really the, the disconnect that we have in this country is that we don't want to tell the stories that make us uncomfortable. And so we'd rather not tell any stories at all. And so I think we, we need to be more intentional about leaning into the uncomfortable stories. Um, and.
And that's going to lead to, um, you know, that's going to lead to awkwardness, and that's going to lead to, um, hurt, and anger, but if we can express those things In the kitchen, and if we can express them around food, in some ways, the kitchen can be a really [00:33:00] safe container to hold some of that hurt and hold some of that anger and hold some of that, um, the things that feel divisive, um, in our culture.
And, um, so I think, you know, part of, part of the restorying is leaning into discomfort.
Andrew Camp: So much there. I want to unpack. Um, cause that's such a good word because I don't think of. We don't associate the kitchen or the dining room table with discomfort. We want it to be a comfortable place, and it can be, but can you give us an example of one area you would like to lean into that discomfort?
Like, what's one avenue or one food that could be a restoring of discomfort for people? Yeah, well,
Derrick Weston: Again, I'm going to lean into Michael Twitty. He, when, when he was, when he was doing his book, the cooking gene, he actually, as he was doing the research and early writing of it, he actually did what he referred to as the Southern discomfort tour.[00:34:00]
Um, and I think a lot of our, our, I think Southern cuisine. Um, and I, and I, I laugh even just, you know, thinking about that word cuisine, right, is that when we elevate something, it becomes a cuisine as opposed to like, it's not food, it's cuisine. Um, and, and, um, I love, I love when things become cuisines. Um, um, you know, thinking about Southern food that we have to recognize that, um, if it wasn't for the agricultural genius of enslaved West Africans, the early colonists of this country would have starved to death.
Um, and, and so when we think about things like okra, when we think about things like, um, uh, watermelon, when we think about things like peanuts, when we think about rice, that the first millionaires in this [00:35:00] country made their fortunes off of West African knowledge of how to grow rice, um, those things should create discomfort.
And they should open the door to new, better conversations about how we interact as people. Um, and I think there's, there's actually, I believe it's in, it's in Padma Lakshmi's show Taste the Nation. Um, I believe that, don't quote me on that, um, Michael Twitty is in, in one of those episodes and he talks with, um, a gentleman who is now the owner Of, of Carolina gold rice distribution, you know, growers and distributors and he talks about leaning into that painful history in his hiring practices and, and the ways that he [00:36:00] reinvesting in African American communities through the proceeds of what he's growing, recognizing that history and trying to think about ways that we do the reparative work of those heart histories.
Um, I, which I, I think is, is incredibly commendable because it doesn't have to do that, right? No, um, no one's, no one's forcing him to do that, but being confronted with those hard stories, um, oftentimes leads us to, to metanoia, you know, that we change direction, that we, that we find a new way to be in the world.
So I think we've, we've, we've got to. Unearth those stories and lean into them and, and hear them and, um, let the discomfort be, and then figure out what do we do with that discomfort? Like, how does it, how does that spur us on to more Christlike behavior? [00:37:00]
Andrew Camp: You know, and Michael Twitty, you know, you and I both love his work and his writings and his, his, yeah.
Um, huge both of, yeah, if you haven't read Michael Twitty, you guys, people need to pick up his books. Yeah. The Cooking Gene and Kosher Soul. Um, both books that yeah, should be required reading. Uh, agreed. Agreed. Yeah. But I love how, where you went with that because that's where I wanted You know, because it's not only about unearthing the stories of oppression and the heartache and the pain, um, but then also then fighting for new systems and working because the system is still not perfect by any means.
It's there's still a lot of brokenness. Um, and so what, what are those avenues, you know, what, Where, where do we begin not to lead to despair, but how do we lead towards change in Christlike behavior with our food systems today?
Derrick Weston: Yeah, it's hard. And I think I want to, [00:38:00] again, I think it's one of the things that we say throughout the book, but it's one of the things that I, I really feel like.
We as Americans are so disconnected from this food system, it is, we are, it is, it is the water we swim in, and therefore we are, we are unaware of it. Um, but I, you know, a few things that I think are, are really important, um, and I think that is, that is getting to learn, um, What are the opportunities that we have to learn our food story?
And, and what I mean by that is, um, thinking of the privileges, you know, for, for many of us thinking of the privilege that we have to get to know farmers, like to go to a farmer's market and get to know a farmer, um, Getting to, [00:39:00] um, think about where our food comes from and trying to have food that doesn't travel as many miles to get to our homes and to get to our kitchens, um, trying to really get to, um, In some ways, just be more intimate with our food, like to be more intimate with a more intimate relationship with, with our, with our, um, again, getting to know growers, um, getting to know ranchers, getting to know farmers, um, also, you know, finding the information, you know, We talk so much about, um, those of us who are in kind of food justice movements, but we talk so much about factory farms and like, that is such a big, scary, nebulous term for so many of us.
Like, what is this [00:40:00] factory farm? Um, and there's, there's a reason. We, you know, don't know where they are. It's because they're intentionally hidden in places that we don't go to. Um, and unfortunately that that's oftentimes in black and brown communities, but, um, really figuring out how do we. How do we divest from that factory farm system?
How do we divest from, um, these big agricultural systems that really are about profit and, and oftentimes profit at the expense of our health? That's the other piece of this is that while there are places where there are blatant injustices happening, the food system as it is currently created is affecting all of our health.
Um, we're all, and again, let me, let me, let me qualify this of, of [00:41:00] if you are an American listening to this podcast, if you are an American listening to this podcast, you are likely consuming way too much sugar. You are way likely consuming way too much ultra processed things as, as Michael Pollan refers to them as edible food, like products, um, you are likely consuming way too much fat.
You are likely consuming way too much salt and sugar, and you are likely, um, because of packaging, um, consuming way too much plastic. Um, that's, I mean, it's, it's, I, I, I laugh. Every time I see, um, the pictures of, you know, grocery stores that have fruit, particularly fruit that has a peel, like covered in plastic, like what were we [00:42:00] thinking there, um, the, the, the casing it came in is perfectly fine.
Um, but I, you know, I think that. Again, we can't, we, we can't resist the system we don't know about. And so much of this is we have to educate ourselves on the food system. We really need to learn more. Um, we really need to learn more about where our food is coming from. We really need to learn about, um, and, and, and actually right now is a really good opportunity because we're about to, um, In this country, um, as of May 3rd, uh, 2024, we are on the verge of, of passing a farm bill.
And most Americans are wildly ignorant of what is in the farm bill. And the farm bill is, is [00:43:00] Typically, the most bipartisan bill that gets passed in this country, because no one wants to be blamed for elevated food prices. Um, and so we figure out a way to work across aisles. Um, but in that, in that farm bill are questions about the ways that farmers are being treated, um, in that farm bill are questions about, um, SNAP and, and food stamps.
In that. Farm bill are questions about food access and food health and food growth. Um, that really can't be ignored. So we have to educate ourselves, you know, um, it's, it's not about, you know, and we're, we're at an age where like good information is accessible, you know, um, there are people out there doing the work, um, but educating ourselves on these things so that we, we [00:44:00] can, you know.
Advocate, and advocate from the space of people of faith that say, Hey, Christians care about this. We care about this because, um, we care about God's, the creation that God has made. And we care about the least of these. And so often where the least of these are found is working in our food system. They're, they're, they're growers and pickers, uh, of, of our vegetables.
They are meat packers. They are in fast food, you know, they are, the least of these are all throughout our food system. And if we care about them, We need to be educated about the system.
Andrew Camp: Um, is there a place if people are wanting to know about the food bill, like is there a place, because I know for myself that trying to read a bill is probably , but like you said, people have done the work, you know, is there a place [00:45:00] to go to learn about the farm Bill?
Derrick Weston: So I will, um, shamelessly self promote. Um, last year, uh, creation justice, uh, creation justice ministries where I work, um, for our Earth Day resource last year, we did, uh, a piece on food. Um, so if you go to, uh, creationjustice. org and, um, look at last year's Earth Day resource, the 2023 Earth Day resource, there's, Actually a really good breakdown of the farm bill and some of the pieces, the components that are in it.
Um, and some of the ways that you can reach out to your legislators. And now it's actually a really good time because this bill is, um, after a lot of languishing finally getting to a point where it might get voted on. So, uh, yeah, I'm just, uh, I would, I would commend. that resource to people.
Andrew Camp: Great. And we'll make sure that's in the, um, show notes and websites so we can, people can easily click it.
Cause no, like you said, there, sometimes it's just knowing where to go to find good information, you know, and, um, who's done the work [00:46:00] to help summarize it in a way that, you know, as people of faith, we can respond in faith and not. As a Republican or Democrat per se. Yeah, I agree. Um, so much here. Um, before we start closing, as I followed you on Facebook, you travel a lot.
And at every airport, you seem to be drinking an old fashioned. And I love a good old fashioned. I actually think it's actually one of the most difficult cocktails to make. Um, it really is. So what is it for you about an old fashioned, uh, you know, I've been wanting to ask you about it 'cause I'm like, I love a good old fashioned, but,
Derrick Weston: uh, I love this question.
Um, so one, it's just, it's just my favorite cocktail and, and it's, and it's kind of a classic, like if, you know, a a a, a bad old fashioned is still better than most other things. Um, and so I, I, I can, I can, um, but I've been, but I've been having fun. as I, as I do [00:47:00] travel around the airports is just like some, some places just make it better.
And, and, and, um, you know, it's a, it's a matter for me of, of do they lean into the sweetness or are they actually letting the bourbon do the work? I mean, cause the other piece of this for me is that I love, I love bourbon. Right. And I have, I have become, um, uh, I'm not, I'm not, I wouldn't. There are experts out there who are are much more well versed on bourbon than I am, but I am developing a bit of a palate, you know, and I'm finding bourbons that I like and so Certain bourbons work better in cocktails than others And, you know, bonus points, if they use a rye for their old fashion, just kind of as a default because that's what you're supposed to do, that's the traditional way.
I don't care about that though so much, but you know, I do, but actually [00:48:00] sometimes some of the better old fashions I've had have been made with ryes and not with bourbon. Um, and it's just, it's one of those things that, um, you know, as I'll speak for myself. Um, when you're in your younger days and drinking is more about sort of the heady feeling of, of, of intoxication.
And then as I've gotten older, it's more about appreciating the quality of a, of a good, of a well made drink, the way that I appreciate the qualities of a well made meal, it's about the company. It's about sipping. It's about slowing down. I mean, that's the thing for me about an old fashioned is that I don't think I have ever once chugged an old fashioned.
Nope. And, and for me, it, it just, it slows me down in a way that I, um, that I need. I need. Because I, I feel like the world is, [00:49:00] is so fast and chaotic sometimes. And, and so just being able to sit back and sip on something and exhale, um, sometimes just the experience that I need to experience, you know, um, my, my, my own presence, you know, my own groundedness.
Um, so yeah, that's, that's been my, that's been my, um, You know, uh, and, and what's, what's been funny is a couple other Facebook friends have now taken upon themselves to report to me of, uh, where they've found good airport old fashioned. So
Andrew Camp: yeah,
Derrick Weston: that's been fun.
Andrew Camp: So what's the perfect, if you could summarize a perfect old fashion for you, what's the balance?
Um, well, first, if our readers aren't familiar with an old fashioned, an old fashioned is, is, you know, mainly bourbon or rye, some orange, some sugar and then a cherry
Derrick Weston: and a [00:50:00] little, a little bit of bitters, bitters. That's right. And, and so for me, um, it's, it's the balance of the sweetness and the bitters that is important for me is that you want to have, you know, Um, you know, a bad old fashioned for me is very sweet and I don't want that one.
That's very sweet. Um, it's, it's gotta have, um, enough sweetness that it's actually accentuating the bourbon and has, you know, again, is, is letting the bourbon do a lot of the heavy lift, but, but has some sweetness and has, has the the bitters and the sugar both kind of will. Cut the burn of the bourbon and, and just kind of gives you a nice extra flavor.
So, um, one where the, the, um, I guess the best way of saying this is, [00:51:00] is one that is. Uh, a heavy pour old fashion is probably what is going to be one that I enjoy more.
Andrew Camp: Nice. Awesome. Um, yes, I do love in a good old fashioned and they are finicky to make. It feels like, um, they
Derrick Weston: are, they are,
Andrew Camp: um, you know, and like you said, a battled fashions too sweet.
Uh, you know, and then the whiskey does make a huge difference because it is whiskey forward. There's no hiding. So, yeah, there's just, it, it's one of those beauty and simplicity things that I think when you nail it, you nail it. Absolutely. It doesn't feel like it should be hard to make, but it, but it totally is, totally is.
Um, a question I'd love to sort of wrap up with, um, With, with guests is this question, um, as we've reflected on this podcast, you've said a lot, um, but to summarize too, what, what's the story you want the church to tell?[00:52:00]
Derrick Weston: When Jesus was at the space where he was saying the most important things to his disciples, is last night, um, he washes their feet and they, and, and, and, In that context of Last Night Together, I'm going to tell you all of the important things. He compares his body to bread and wine.
There's something so, and, and, and, and, [00:53:00] importantly, he doesn't compare his self to wheat and grapes. He compares himself to the great gifts that God has given us through the machinations of human art. Um, wheat gets transformed into bread by, by the divine and the, and humans. Working together. Um, wine gets trans or grapes get transformed to wine by the divine and the human working together.
Mm-Hmm. . And to me there is something Absolutely. Um, there's this beautiful symbol, um, of, of what food can be, which is this divine human cooperation that gives life, that enhances the world that, um, that brings. [00:54:00] Joy, as well as nourishment that brings that, that fills us in a way, um, that leaves us satisfied.
And I caught myself once, uh, in a conversation about my work, uh, having a conversation with someone and said, you know, I don't understand how the church got so obsessed with sex when the Bible is so obsessed with food. Um. I want us to rediscover the divine in food. I want us to rediscover all of the divine dimensions that are in food.
The ways in which it, it can bring us to joy and to lament the way that it can build connections between ourselves and us and God and us and creation. I want us to just rediscover [00:55:00] Food in God's story because food is so central to God's story, and it's so it's, it's almost the primary way that God invites us into God's story.
And so, um, that's a vague, vague answer,
Andrew Camp: but it summarizes your passion and your, your love. And, you know, it ties it back into, you know, the story and what story are we going to tell? And, How food does is so intimately connected with who we are as beings. And so, um, yes, it's a big answer, um, but I wouldn't call it vague, um, because it, you know, it's urinized passion.
Um, and it is so important. Um, and so some fun questions then to end up, you know, um, what's one food you refuse to eat?
Derrick Weston: Beets. Beets. Can't, can't, [00:56:00] uh, you know, can't get, yeah, I, I've tried, I've tried.
Andrew Camp: Okay. Fair. Yep. That sounds good. And then on the other end of the spectrum, what's one of the best things you've ever eaten?
Derrick Weston: When, uh, my wife took a sabbatical a couple years ago and we went to Greece, and, um, everything we ate there was wonderful, but there is a, there is a picture in my favorites folder on my phone of this squid that was, that's stuffed with vegetables. That I ate at, um, uh, on the beach in, in, in, uh, I want to say, I think it was Mykonos?
Um, amazing. Absolutely amazing. Like, the, like, for some reason, When we do calamari here in the states, it's kind of got this gummy, I think it comes from being [00:57:00] frozen. It's got this kind of gummy texture and it's fresh calamari is Transcendent and this was it was it was beautiful to look at beautiful presentation.
Also just Incredibly delicious.
Andrew Camp: That sounds delicious Um, and then finally, you know, there's a conversation among chefs about last meals as if, you know, you knew you had one last meal to enjoy, what would it be? And so if Derek knew he had one last meal to enjoy, what would be on that table?
Derrick Weston: Lasagna.
Andrew Camp: Lasagna.
Derrick Weston: Yeah. And, and, and. Either made by my wife or by my mom and I'm going to name them both because just on the off chance that either of them listens to this. I do not want to declare one better than the other. However, however, um, they both make an excellent lasagna and that [00:58:00] is sort of like my comfort food and like, that's the thing that I would want to like, Remember the, the comfort that food has brought me throughout life.
Andrew Camp: Gotcha. What makes a good lasagna?
Derrick Weston: Oh man. Um, uh, the. Burnt top. Um, I, yeah, you see, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The burnt top and, um, you know, really, uh, good mixes of, of quality cheeses, you know, I think is, is, uh, you know, Yes, ricotta, but good ricotta and not just ricotta, you know, like it's a good, good mix of good cheeses is really important.
Um, so yeah, that burned crust on the top is, is like, I don't, I don't like not too like charred, but you know,
Andrew Camp: no, I know. Yep. As soon as you said, well, it's [00:59:00] funny. Cause we just. Had lasagna with our small group last night, you know, that we, I made, you know, and whenever I make lasagna, I make like four pans.
Cause I'm like, well, it can freeze it. And, you know, you pull it out or you give it to somebody who needs a meal. Like, you know, you, they're just easy to have, but so no, good lasagna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, so great. So
Derrick Weston: great.
Andrew Camp: Awesome, Derek. Well, this has been such a joyful, enriching, like it is just, yeah. Like you're, this conversation has just been.
So enjoyable for me. Um, yeah. And if people want to learn more about you or get, you know, about your work and get in touch with you, where, where can people find you?
Derrick Weston: Yeah. I'm, um, I am on, um, all the socials at Derek L. Weston, not, not a whole lot of creativity there. Um, and then you can, you can follow the work that I've been doing at creation justice ministries, just creation justice.
org.
Andrew Camp: Awesome. We appreciate it. And if you've enjoyed this [01:00:00] episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with others. Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Biggest Table, where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food. Until next time.
Bye.