Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Interested in conversations about the nature of reality, multidimensionality, truth, being, religion, spirituality, life, love, consciousness, and language?
Wondering how to thrive in an uncertain and rapidly changing world?
Do you want to learn about things you've never experienced or heard of?
If so, we might just be for you!
Wendy Frase 0:00
Welcome to Wake-Up Call for the Soul with Bill and Wendy. Hello, Bill.
Bill Frase 0:06
Hi, Wendy.
Wendy Frase 0:08
Well, we are here today with another episode, and usually Bill gives us an outline and does some planning and thinking ahead of time, so we have some talking points. This time we're going to be a little bit more spontaneous, I might be catching him off guard a little bit, because he has no idea what I want to talk about today.
Bill Frase 0:32
Indeed, I have no clue of what's on your radar. I had no idea that you had questions or anything, so I'm very curious to see what happens here.
Wendy Frase 0:43
Okay, well, I am actually going to be leading or co-leading a women's retreat very shortly, in a couple months. I have been a leader in the past, and I just wanted to run a few ideas by Bill today. Our retreat is titled "The Wide Open Spaces of God," so we can go a lot of different directions with this, my co-facilitator and I, but some of our takeaways are that Source or God is inviting us to open ourselves to a bigger zvreator, God, Source, and a bigger life. So I have a few questions for Bill. Maybe he can help me a little bit here, but Bill, what do you think about what comes to mind when you hear the wide open spaces of God.
Bill Frase 1:43
When I think about that phrase, there's several things that come up. Being one is this idea of spaciousness that Source fosters an incredible spaciousness, a spaciousness within ourselves as beings made in the likeness of Source, and it's kind of hard to describe that spaciousness, my sense of it, but it is, it's multi-dimensional in nature, so the spaciousness is not merely like we tend to think of in 3D or 4D kind of space-time kind of coordinate systems, that the spaciousness expands in all kinds of different directions or dimensions, realms or realities, kind of up, down, left, right, within, without, and other things that are really hard for us to conceptualize, because our language and our thinking is so structured by our experience in this material existence that we have, and as it is conditioned at this point in the condition of our material minds with all the programs that they carry. So, there's that, but that the other idea that spaciousness is this incredible freedom, because I feel like a lot of the religious ideas that have to do with Source are ideas of lack of limitation of control, domination, law, do's and don'ts, good and bad, and when I hear you say that phrase, it speaks to me to the freedom that we have as beings made in the likeness of Source, that we have way more freedom than we allow ourselves to experience or to express, because we have compartmentalized our thinking, our feeling, our being, even our physical beingness, like most people tend to think that they exist within their material bodies, like that somehow the skin is the end of kind of where they stop and the world begins, and that's not at all true. Our beingness extends way beyond the envelope of flesh that we wear.
Wendy Frase 3:15
And we've talked about that on some other episodes too, with identity and material mind, material body, all these different concepts that you've brought forward.
Bill Frase 3:26
Yeah, so, but there's this freedom, I mean, because being made in the image of Source, so Source is free. Most people don't understand that source is free, that source does not conform, and I think we've talked about this before. Source does not conform in any way, shape, or form to any human ideas of who Source is, what Source is capable of, how far Source is willing to go to accomplish things, to do things, how patient source is, but also how Source has this incredible sense of time, and given that source has the ability to perceive all of the various cycles and rhythms within the flow of the expression of what we would call free will. Yeah, I just.. there's this huge sense of freedom, and most of us, most of the time, we don't live in this freedom. I don't live in this freedom. It's.. it's not what we have been trained, socialized, and indoctrinated to do as human beings on this planet at this time. So, instead of us responding to various things that we experience from a free state, from a place of real choice, we tend to limit our choices to those things that are familiar, habitual, comfortable, and therefore our experience of life is extremely limited. The metaphor coming to mind is that we have access to the entire cosmos, and most of us live like we're looking through a keyhole. This is what that this is all that's available to us, that we look through this keyhole and we think, oh, wow, that's everything. No, you're looking through a keyhole, you're not seeing 99.999% of what actually exists, what's actually real in this kind of multi-dimensional, expansive, limitless reality. I guess maybe that's part of it too. It's not just spaciousness, it's limitlessness that Source our own potentials and possibilities, all that exists is infinite in its beingness. It is not limited or constrained by human ideas of lack or boundaries or constraints that we're so used to in the human condition.
Wendy Frase 6:36
It kind of reminds me, recently we rewatched the Truman Show, and Truman was in this bubble, and didn't even realize it, because you're just aware of what's going on around you, and it is hard to open yourself up to this wide open space, as you just talked about, because I like that. I'm, we've been exploring themes of appreciating the vastness of source and creation, but that is hard to do, because we're so limited. We have these limitations that we place on who sources, who we are, how we exist in this world.
Bill Frase 7:16
Yeah, your mention of the Truman Show reminds me that there's a key line in there. Someone's interviewing Christof, the creator of Truman's world, The Truman Show, the dome that he lives in, and asks him, well, why hasn't Truman kind of questioned or rebelled against this world that you've created for him? And Christof, you know, in his very wise and patronizing way, says, "Well, we accept the reality that's presented to us." That's kind of the problem with the world right now, is that most of us right now, although more and more of us are waking up, most of us right now are accepting the world as it has been presented to us, but it's been presented to us in ways that are meant, just like Christof is doing with Truman to control, to dominate, to constrain, to keep within certain boundaries, and one of the ways that Truman is controlled in that show is fear. That is the primary mechanism that they use to keep him on his island, so that he doesn't leave. He develops a fear of dogs in that movie, but the big fear is, is that they, they kill off his father, who is an actor, not his biological father,
Wendy Frase 8:29
No, on the show, The Truman Show,
Bill Frase 8:30
Right. Yeah, so it's a show, and they, they decide to kill off his father, because he, he's an explorer at heart, he wants to explore. He wants to go places. This is...
Wendy Frase 8:38
Travel, see the world,
Bill Frase 8:39
Yeah, he just, he, you know, it's almost like George Bailey on steroids, in a way, from the It's a Wonderful Life, because he really wants to do this. I mean, as a kid, and he's always going places, and they're like, no, Truman, you can't go there. So he has the spirit of an explorer, but the way that they got him to stay on the island was they, they quote unquote killed his father in a boating accident, which was intended to create this significant fear of the water for Truman, and we see him addressing this fear. He and they set up scenarios in the show where he has to go visit someone on another island to close a deal. He won't go because he's he's so terrified of the boating accident, the trauma that happened with his father in that episode of his life, and that episode of the show, that defining moment, and and this world is no different. This world is rife with fear. We are programmed to fear all kinds of things: criticism, judgment, lack, war, violence, starvation. Just you watch any five minutes of any news program, you have pretty much most of the fears available, you know, sickness, old age, disease, death, like take your...go down the list, and we have been programmed to be afraid of all of these things instead of to be curious about them, open to the experience of them, allowing them to be what they are without this whole fearful overlay. And so that's that's a massive part of the control that we have accepted from one another, from the power structures that exist, but also that we continue to kind of control ourselves with, and again going back to that line by Christof, we accept the reality that's been presented to us. We've been presented with a fearful reality, but the reality of Divinity is fearless. There is no fear in Divinity's reality, because Divinity is coming at it from a completely different perspective, not one of lack or limitation, doubt or fear, but from love, from love, from truth, beauty, goodness, peace, harmony.
Wendy Frase 10:46
Now those are all wonderful things to think about, and what you're saying, how we try to control people, or at least navigate, at least steer their idea of what reality really is, and it made me think about being in Christian education, because I spent a lot of time in Christian education, and working with children are so refreshing, and the younger the better, because when they ask questions, some of my favorite things to do is to ask back, what do you think? because often as adults we're steering the children into directions, and this doesn't even have to be with Christian education. If a child asks, well, where do clouds come from, asking the child, "Well, what do you think?" is such a wonderful opportunity for even us as adults to open up our limiting beliefs, because unfortunately we have been raised and we're already having a lot of these ideas and beliefs about how the world is when we really don't have a clue with most of it. And I love hearing what children come up with, because I think that that is some of the issues with the wide open spaces of Source, is that we have so many limiting beliefs, and we're not allowing ourselves to open up, and maybe I don't even know how we can do that, and I want to hear how what you think about that, Bill, but I've said so much, I'm gonna let you reflect.
Bill Frase 12:34
Yeah, I mean, kids, kids are closer to Source, and like you said, the younger the kid, the closer to Source they are as they encounter this pseudo reality that we've constructed for ourselves, they start to build the mental pathways, the limitations, they start accepting beliefs that are presented to them as reality, which they're all lies, they're all, or if they're not, right out lies, they're distortions. Usually...
Wendy Frase 13:05
Distortions is a good word.
Bill Frase 13:07
Yeah, yeah. So, right. For example, like, my parents love me. Well, yeah, but you also get to experience the times when they are really challenged in expressing love for you, and so a lot of people will associate things with love that are not love. They will associate the criticism of their mother, for example, with love. When that criticism is not love, it's a distortion. She may be criticizing you because she loves you, but is it also because she needs you to act a certain way in order to support her own projected sense of identity, so that others will see her as a good mother? You know. And the same for fathers, the same for teachers. You know, how many of us in our lives need the people in our lives to reinforce our idea of who we think we are who we want to be and who we don't want to be. I'd say it's pretty darn close to 100% on this planet at this time, and children, kids, right? And there's a passage from the Bible, you know, something I don't know where, I don't remember where it comes from, but you know, "and a little child will lead them," and even Jesus's own teachings, you know, about children, you know, "you must become like a child to enter into the benevolent dominion of your Creator." These kinds of teachings and phrases speak to a lot of the truth that we really, as adults, we really should, to your point, Wendy, listen a lot more to kids, pay a lot more attention to kids, love kids more, accept kids more, and try to see things more their way, because they're usually much more right than we are, because, yeah, they're they're looking at things through their own unique less indoctrinated perception. They, they haven't bought into the stories, you know, and that's the thing...
Wendy Frase 15:07
Or what's possible, what's not.
Bill Frase 15:09
Yeah, well, all those things, they're all stories.,Like the human brain is wired to take in stories, to think about things in terms of stories of something happening, people doing things, actions being taken, emotions being attached to those things, outcomes being achieved or experienced. Like this is how our brains are wired, and kids are much more flexible in how they think of stories. There's a...I have this thing called the Creative Whack Pack, which has 36 cards to kind of boost creativity, and one of those cards, there's an image on it of a blackboard with a dot in the middle, and I can't remember what the card says about it, but the story that's told on the card is, is that there was a teacher who drew a spot on the blackboard and went to, I don't know, like middle schoolers or high school students, and said, "What is that? They're like, "It's a dot on a blackboard," and the teacher was like, "Really, that's all that is. Okay, and the teacher then takes that same image to a bunch of like first graders or something, and says, "Well, what's the dot on the blackboard, and the kids give like dozens and dozens of answers, you know. "It's a squashed bug, it's an egg that someone threw at the wall, it's a peep hole, it's a key hole, it's a, you know, it just, it's a little cloud in a cloudless sky, it's a star, it's the sun," it, you know, whatever, you know, they're just going all off on this thing because they're not, they haven't yet been trained to see things literally all the time, that a thing is just a thing, that if this is this thing that you know kids are much more open to the archetypal, symbolic realm, their imaginations are not as constrained. You know, and that's, I mean, I have huge issues with the so-called education system, because I consider it to be the what the imagination discouragement and intellectual curiosity diminishment system. I mean, it's perfectly designed to kill creativity, to diminish people's imaginative capacity and to control people. You know, again, like, what is more free than than an imagination that can just look around and say, oh, wow, this is like that, and this is like that, what if we put those things together, and what if we do these things, yeah, and our creativity has been so undermined by these these systems, these ideas that you know they don't want people to be more creative, they don't want people to be smarter, because the more creative and smarter people are, the harder it is to control them. And again, I'm not just talking about intellectual intelligence, I'm talking about the full intelligence of the human being. I mean, how many people don't even know what they're feeling, they don't even understand their emotions. In my own way, I think I'm maybe more wired for that than a lot of people, but there's a lot of people who they don't actually know what they're feeling most of the time, like they just, they have no clue of what they're feeling. And we are taught from very early on to divorce ourselves, our minds from our emotions, from our hearts, from our souls. You know, I mean, I'm not aware that the so-called education systems really promote much in terms of soul perceptions or awareness or any of these things. So, I'm sorry, I've really gone off here, but I guess you hit a spot there.
Wendy Frase 18:39
Well, it's also very interesting, and you've given me a lot to think about, Bill, and I wonder, from your perspective, because I know, as we've just said, we put a lot of false self-imposed mental barriers, or these false stories, or narratives that we tell ourselves that really restrict who Divinity is, and maybe who we are, so I just wonder, what would you say is one of the most dangerous or popular of these limiting beliefs that we have regarding Divinity?
Bill Frase 19:23
I mean, the first one that comes to mind, which will probably not come as a surprise if people listen to the prior episodes on this podcast, is the lie that we are separate from Source, you know, this this idea that that we don't come from Source, I mean, there's people in this world who I don't know where they think they come from, I, they come from the merging of a sperm and an egg, and I don't like, but again. Mean, if you want to control people, then cut them off from their source of power. So I understand why people have these ideas. I mean, people who are obsessed with the material and the intellectual, these things can be very appealing or comforting in a way, maybe to them, because it creates this very tiny little box. Well, like I exist because two sex cells came together, and here I am. I am the product of a biological, chemical, hormonal process.
Wendy Frase 20:31
That's a good one, though. The limiting belief that we are separate from Source, because that's really a wide open one, I would say, versus a smaller limiting belief that we often have.
Bill Frase 20:45
Yeah, I mean, well, and to me, every other limiting belief flows from that one, because if I'm separate from Source, then am I separate from other people, am I separate from other life forms, am I separate from this planet, am I separate from other planets and star systems, and I am I separate from the people on all these other planets and star systems? Am I separate from that which I cannot see or perceive with my material senses? Again, we, most of us, have our senses closed down here, so most of us have been trained and indoctrinated not to have perceptions beyond what are called the so-called five senses, or the I refer to them as biological senses.
Wendy Frase 21:25
So, if we really accept this concept that we are not separate from God, Source, Divinity, how do you think our lives changed then, or what would we do differently?
Bill Frase 21:45
Great question. So, what we would do, no, because it's right, because there's the idea.
Wendy Frase 21:49
Maybe I even believe, I think I believe that we are not separate from God, but maybe I don't embrace that fully. So, how would our lives be different, or just even take one individual, say that switch that perspective, or really embrace that? How do you think they would, their life would be different? And maybe you can speak from your own experience.
Bill Frase 22:16
So, let's say that I'm talking to an adult,
Wendy Frase 22:19
Okay.
Bill Frase 22:20
An adult human being on this planet at this time, someone who has up until this moment bought into the lie, the distortion, the story, whatever we want to call it, that somehow this very strange thing has happened, where we got separated from the One from Whom We Come. I'm going to treat that as the baseline reality for a particular individual. All right, so if an individual is in that situation, and maybe they come to doubt this story that they've been told, maybe they want to test whether the hypothesis is supported or not of their separation from this Source, as I like to call it, or Creator, Divinity. Then, because of the conditions on this planet, because of what we have been trained in and indoctrinated with, we have to be different than we've been, and we have to do differently than what we have done if we want to test the hypothesis and not just have it be this mental story that we're telling ourselves. Like, okay, and so for me this is I'm going back to an earlier episode that my practice is to engage aspects of myself that I was not trained or led to exercise in my life until I realized that I, in my own way, had made choices that created a false separation between myself and Source, so that I could then seek to experience more of the truth of my oneness with Source, and so that's where my practice of expressing desires from my deepest aspect to Source, saying, "Source, I desire to experience your substance, your Essence, what we'll call things like Divine Love or Unconditional Love, Source Love, that by expressing these things through regular practice, through the expression of heartfelt, soulful, deep-centered desires, that then I can experience the inflowing of that essence, because in, in my world, there are kind of two ways to be one with source, there's the natural way to be one with Source, where I recognize that I come from Source, and that I possess the natural love, this kind of substance that permeates all of creation, where I can experience that and enjoy a kind of oneness with Source in this awareness, kind of what my soul would have. Experience before its incarnation in the flesh, for example, but for me, I'm not satisfied with that. I want to become more like Source, not to just have it as this kind of...I don't even know how to describe it. It's a different level of perception. I want to know that I'm one with Source, and so in that, then I am seeking not just to be at one through the principles of harmony and resonance with Source, but I desire to be one with Source in substance, in essence, by allowing the Source's Essence to permeate more and more of my being on a progressive basis.
Wendy Frase 25:41
That's great, really, and I'm wondering, too. It just made me think, and maybe this isn't the time to ask it, but you said that the biggest, maybe, lie that we tell ourselves is that we're separate from Source, so does that mean that everyone is connected to Source, or does that mean we can be if we recognize and desire it?
Bill Frase 26:11
There are different forms of unity or connection, so everyone has a fundamental...
Bill Frase 26:17
Free will choice, right?
Bill Frase 26:18
Connection. Yeah, it's like you think about it, I mean, you're a mother. You've given birth. You, you have a child who is seeking to grow and to develop, who is perceived as a unique individual from you, but what I've been told is, is that his cells are still inside your body, like you, you and him, in your own way, are one in a way, even that I'm not one with him, because I'm his father, like I didn't carry him within me, you know, as a child. So, so you guys have a particular kind of oneness that I'm using as sort of a metaphor for Source, that we all come from Source, we all come from the womb of Source, and so we all have this kind of stamp or this imprint from Source in terms of who we are as a unique being made in the likeness of Source, but beings who are born onto planets that don't have the kind of control structures and mechanisms that we have on this world, they can experience a lot of joy and enjoyment of their particular form of resonance with Source, recognizing Source is their origin. But for me there's this other layer or level of oneness, which is okay, that's awesome, and I'm just interested in that and more, and the and more for me is the seeking of this this essence, there are also people born on planets where their whole civilization is based on acquiring more of this, this different or more expansive union with Source, and so that's just what they do all the time, and for them it's as natural as breathing, whereas for us we actually have to engage in what we'd call practices. We actually have to put more effort into it, because we're attempting to overcome a gulf that our species has created over millions of years of our existence on this planet, some of that knowingly, much of it unknowingly. We accept the reality that's presented to us, that we are somehow separate from the one from whom we come, and that takes lots of different forms.
Wendy Frase 28:21
So, this almost, because two, we get very limited from even some of the scriptures in the Bible, and I just want to read a favorite scripture of a lot of people, because it talks about the unbreakable bond of God's Love, and that's from Romans 8:38 and 39: "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height or depth, or else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord." But you're even taking it a step further than that, you're not limiting your belief by that, because it's not just the love of God, it's the unity and connection, isn't that what you're saying?
Bill Frase 29:09
Well, if you go to First John, there's a famous verse in there, "God is love," where in First John the kind of, in a way, the ultimate reality of Divinity is expressed because people have all kinds of ideas about Divinity, they think Divinity is jealous, angry, controlling, dominating, yeah, they have all these ideas, but First John,
Wendy Frase 29:32
God is love,
Bill Frase 29:33
God is love, yeah,
Wendy Frase 29:35
First John: 4: 7 through 21 let wait, beloved, let us love one another, for God is for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love."
Bill Frase 29:50
Paul in Romans and John, and First John, we tend to think of love because we've been taught about separation and have accepted it. We think of love either as quote unquote just a feeling or as even a nice fluffy idea, but what they're talking about, and what I'm talking about, is we're talking about a divine reality that suffuses all of existence in lots of different ways, but one of the ways that that is done is through what we would call Divine Love, the substance that permeates all that exists, but that Source does not force upon us that it is a gift, and so therefore to experience the gift we have to want to accept the gift, and on this planet it's really hard for a lot of people to accept that gift for a whole bunch of different reasons, some of which we talked about here. Yeah, I don't know if I would say what I'm saying is more expansive than what they're saying. I think when we tend to say and read words like love like that, we tend to have more limited ideas about it than the actual multidimensional reality of Divinity's beingness in what we could use as a really paltry word of love in English.
Wendy Frase 31:17
Yeah, so I think you've given me a lot to think about, because I think your whole podcast over the years, Wake-Up Call for the Soul, you have been encouraging people to expand their limited viewpoints and to open up to the wide open spaces that are all around us, in all areas, maybe not just in this conversation, but in all areas. So, I got a lot out of this, Bill, is there anything else you think would be helpful to share with the listeners?
Bill Frase 31:50
I feel like this conversation, in its own way, has been a, you know, a development, maybe, of some themes, ideas, and concepts from prior episodes. Now, I just, I encourage people to, to not accept the stories that we've been told and that we tell ourselves about who we think we are and are not, who we think Source is and is not what we think is and isn't real, because all of these stories and beliefs are limitations, at best, they can point us in the direction of truth and reality, like we've talked about in very early episodes, and at worst, they can lead us away from the truth of who we really are, where we really come from, who we come from, and what the possibilities and potentials are for our existence. And so, yeah, thank you, Wendy, for this conversation. I hope that this helps you with the development of your agenda for your women's retreat. On the wide open spaces of God.
Wendy Frase 32:49
That's true, you know, I go to you a lot of times when I'm working on these retreats.
Bill Frase 32:54
I enjoy that, yeah.
Wendy Frase 32:56
And I love a good question too. So,
Wendy Frase 32:59
You're good with questions
Wendy Frase 32:59
Thank you for helping me with that.
Bill Frase 33:02
My pleasure. Thank you.
Wendy Frase 33:03
Until next time,
Bill Frase 33:05
Until next time. Thank you so much for listening to Wake-Up Call for the Soul with Bill and Wendy. We look forward to you joining us next time.