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Each week, Amanda Campbell interviews amazing people, who will share their inspiring stories of resilience. Amanda dives deep into 40-minute DNM’s with guests, exploring their stories of how they have overcome adversity in their lives professionally and personally.
Welcome to the band like Bamboo Podcast,
where we will explore
the incredible power of resilience,
mental strength and adaptability.
In each episode, I'll be sitting down
with inspiring guests
from business leaders and entrepreneurs
to celebrities and everyday heroes.
We'll dive
deep into their personal journeys,
uncovering the secrets
behind their ability to bend
without breaking in the face of life's
challenges.
Join me as we learn from these remarkable
individuals
and discover practical tools to enhance
our own resilience and well-being.
Together, we'll explore
how flexible of the mind, body and spirit
can help us to reach our full potential
in all areas of life.
Get ready to be inspired,
enlightened, and empowered.
On the Ben Like Bamboo Podcast.
Good morning, Jane.
Live this.
Thank you so much for coming on to the Ben
Like Bamboo podcast today.
That's a pleasure, gorgeous.
Amanda It's great to be here.
Oh, it's great to see you again.
I love your energy
and I love what you do, and I can't wait
to share your story with the world.
Thank you.
I'm excited to talk to you.
It's going to be good. Love it.
Let me introduce you properly.
So Jane is a compassionate family
lawyer with qualifications
in both law and counseling.
She takes a holistic approach
to separation, which I love
addressing legal, emotional
and practical aspects.
Jane provides a supportive environment
where clients feel heard
and valued as individuals,
which is so important
when you go through such
an emotional time in your life.
The legal aspects are important,
but there is the emotional
and it's often forgotten, which is why
I really love this conversation
and what you do.
Your work focuses on guide people
through separation with clarity
and empathy, handling
property, settlements, children's matters,
and the emotional aftermath
of relationship breakdowns.
Jane collaborates with wellness
professionals to support clients
emotional and spiritual needs,
helping them rebuild and embrace
new beginnings with confidence.
Welcome, Jane. I want to know everything.
BE Thank you, Amanda.
I'm excited to talk about it.
I'm really so passionate
about helping people beyond the legal.
I think that's so important
for a family lawyer.
So how did that start?
What how did you realize
that was important?
How did you execute that?
So I guess for me,
I've always thought
that if I hadn't been a lawyer,
I would probably like
to have been a psychologist.
Although now I sometimes wonder whether
maybe I'd prefer to be a kinase ologist
because I love that I love what you do.
But so for me,
what's really important for people is
I mean, yes, ultimately, of course,
you need to have some documents
to finalize the practicalities
of your separation.
But I mean, it's your heart
that that breaks first, right?
Or it's your soul
that needs some guidance.
It's not, you know, let me get a pen out.
So for me, what I love is working
with clients around that emotional space.
And I'm fortunate enough
also to have a fabulous team
who who are good with people,
but also fantastic with the paperwork
and love it much more than I do.
So we've got the minutia covered as well.
But so about 15 years ago, I wanted to
I was a bit torn about whether I wanted
to continue to be a lawyer because,
you know, there were many aspects of it
that I didn't love
and I wanted to find what is it
that's going to reinvigorate this for me?
So I went and did a grad deep
in counseling at Swinburne,
which was the best thing I've ever done
because it was such a joy.
And I just absolutely felt like
I was to it like a duck to water.
And I now really enjoy being able to offer
that additional level of compassion
and, you know,
sensitive listening and reflecting back
and that kind of deeper connection
with clients.
Isn't it interesting how,
you know, obviously your original calling
was law and studying it
and and then you say duck to water
with you know, counseling,
studying, counseling, a whole different,
you know, career and division.
But how they blend so well
together and how, you know,
when you've really found your calling
and your calling is integrating
the legal aspect into the emotional with
with the counseling.
And within moments
before you started the counseling
where you were like, oh, what am I doing?
Is this really wrong? God.
So many moments like including way back
in first year law when I was like,
What am I doing here?
But I always had been like a very kind of
this is the path I'm on,
so I'll stick with that kind of person.
And so really I had years of moments
where I knew
I liked the connection with clients.
But a lot of the
the real kind of
lawyer brand stuff is not necessarily
so much make, to be honest,
do not come to me as a lawyer though,
because I do know what I'm doing.
And I also have a beautiful team
who really love
diving into the minutiae
of being a lawyer.
They love to legislation,
they love the case law,
they love the detail,
they love going through people's financial
disclosure, all of these things
which are ultimately essential.
But I've really come to realize
that there's also value,
and you would know this in the so-called
kind of soft skills and being able
to be a safe place for somebody to lead
and go, my life is falling apart.
What next?
And they need somebody
who's going to create a safe space
for them to talk about
whatever is worrying them.
And ultimately, yes,
we have to navigate them through
the complexities of the legal system,
but they're not going to live
with a percentage.
They're going to live with
what is their new life look like.
And so I'm really passionate
about us helping clients to think about
what is a vision for the future
beyond being stuck
in the quagmire of the legal system.
Exactly.
And that's why when you and I grab lunch
the other day, we use the word
conscious agreement for,
you know, when you rebuild,
you might go into a new relationship
and it's like lessons.
Yeah, like you can create
what's a conscious agreement.
So a conscious agreement for me
is, is the kind of concept
and I feel very Gwyneth Paltrow
even using the word conscious
because of course, when she separated,
she was all about conscious uncoupling,
right?
Thinking about doing it differently.
Will I say that there's a space for
that as well
when people are entering
into a new relationship,
which is a beautiful thing, and often
these days people do that more than once
and may have assets
that they want to protect,
or they've got family
who have given them money
to buy a house or whatever it may be.
And I'm all about
really honoring that space of people
who are starting to live together.
And it's the new love.
It's the exciting time,
but who might want to protect their assets
in the event that they do separate
and getting them to really consciously
think about what's important
for them in their relationship and also
what they might want each person's
future to look like in the event
that they did separate.
Yeah, it's just so sensible
because then you know your exit strategy
and then you can just put that to bed
and focus
on the positive
instead of that uncertainty around, Yes,
you know, what would happen
to, you know, worst case scenario,
I mean we dive into office relationships
with it's going to be fine, whatever.
And we're all romantic.
But once you've gone through the grueling
process of having to separate assets
while you're brokenhearted,
which is why I love what you do,
you know, it's
you do go, oh, hang on a second.
I'm going to make sure I don't have to
put myself through how difficult that was.
And it's not as difficult
if you have all that ironed out,
even just living together
in a new de facto relationship.
Absolutely.
You have a conscious agreement?
Absolutely.
That,
yes, anybody who is entering into a
relationship where you're living together,
being married, de facto cybersex,
whatever it is.
Yes, absolutely.
Everybody can but can and should,
I think, have a conscious agreement.
And I think it also helps people to
consider
some of the complexities
that might arise in their relationship.
You know, often the act of doing this
and this is
why I think it needs to be done
sensitively, can really kind of unearth
perhaps different views around money,
you know,
perhaps childhood fears and complexities
that they're bringing forward.
It might be that somebody you know, being
brought up with a real lack mentality.
And so they feel like
they always have to hold onto their money,
whereas somebody might have come
from a more generous space.
And there's these agreements
when you're entering into a relationship,
can really prompt discussions
not only about what might happen
if you separate, but also about,
hey, how are things?
How are we going
to run our lives together?
Because I think we're so understandably,
so excited.
And there's there's the romance
and there's the passion
and there's all of that.
But sometimes
we don't perhaps
pay enough attention to the practicalities
or to kind of the fundamental alignment
or misalignment of values.
And doing an agreement
can really bring that to light.
Yeah, and it lays into those important
discussions around how do we manage money
and what are our values around
that, and school fees and everything.
Yeah, retirement know.
Yes, yes.
I actually think that there's a place
for yes,
definitely for having those conversations.
And I think also people, particularly
people who are getting married
because that of itself
is such a big moment of celebration
and there's so much emphasis
that's put on the dress, the bridal party,
the venue, that all of these things.
I think it's also good to take stock about
what that means actually
for the relationship moving forward,
because you're not just planning an event,
you're planning a lifetime, you know,
and I think it's good for people
to stop and reflect on that, actually.
Well, technically,
when you get married, what
what what changes what changes legally?
Just,
you know, like a little brief of like.
Well, actually these days, not much.
But in fact, really the certainly
from a family law perspective,
I think that you also it's also a time
when you should speak to a wills
and estates lawyer
about what to do in terms of your estate
if you separate a sorry. Yes.
If is a right
but also if you die of course.
But from a family law perspective,
de facto and married couples are treated
the same when they separate now.
So I really the only thing a marriage does
from a family law perspective is create
a hurdle and a need to divorce to legally.
And the marriage if you separate.
Yeah, right.
And you're de facto one or two years.
You have to be separated for one year.
I'm sorry. De facto, yeah,
technically two years.
But family law is always incredibly great.
So there can still be potential asset
claims in less than two years
in certain circumstances.
But strictly the definition of de facto
is around two years. Yes.
Yeah.
So y umbrella family law, which is
the beautiful name of your business.
Thank you.
So umbrella because in part
because when we were birthing
umbrella in 2018 was driving along,
I can still remember I was driving along
beside the cemetery in Carlton
and it was really wet day and there were
lots of people with umbrellas
and I suddenly thought, Oh, umbrella
because we at a cheesy level, right?
We provide shelter for people
who were going through the storm of the
the act of separation.
And also at a more practical level,
we like to be an umbrella organization
for being able to then
refer people to the other support
that they need
as they're going through separation.
And also we just want it to be something
that's a bit more interesting than Liberty
and Smith, you know, and that has a bit
more longevity and a bit
something that's a bit bigger
than just the two of us.
AS Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Where are you
based? You're in South Melbourne.
We're in South Melbourne,
but really we always say we're based
wherever people need us.
Amanda Because of course
I think that's one beautiful thing
and I know you do work online as well, but
that was a great thing to come from
lockdown.
Our crazy lockdown life in Melbourne
is that it's much more acceptable now
I think, for people to feel comfortable
doing things on Zoom or by phone.
And it's beautiful because it's really
opened us up to be able to assist people
in far more places, hasn't it?
I know that that's true for you as well.
And I see so many more virtual clients
now, which has opened up my demographic
to, you know, rural, international
and to stay.
It's wonderful.
And now even group healings.
And it's fabulous.
It's fabulous.
And I think even just yes, connecting
at a much more deep level and accepting
even like the conversation
we're having now,
we can get right in there,
even though it's online
and we can do the same with our clients,
which is fantastic, isn't it?
Yeah.
So anyone
listening that might be going through
a separation
and you know, they're going through
that turmoil, that emotional turmoil.
What's one piece of advice
that you would give them, you know,
with your expertise and all your knowledge
of what people go through?
What's the one or two things
that you think they might need to know to
to help? I guess.
I mean, there's
probably a thousand things,
but the ones that spring to mind right now
are, number one,
don't be scared
that seeing a lawyer
means you're going into battle.
It just means that you're getting yourself
some advice about
how to work through this next period.
I mean, you need to be careful
about the lawyer that you might see, but
but mostly seeing a lawyer is not scary
and doesn't suddenly
mean you're
going to find yourself in court.
So don't be afraid to get some knowledge
so that even if you then don't
go back to a lawyer for ages,
you're negotiating and moving forward
from a position of understanding
what the options are.
So that's step one.
Don't be afraid of lawyers.
And step
two is know that it will get better.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's really important
because, you know,
I've got a picture in my mind, always have
this gorgeous client of mine who one day
came into my office and she just looked so
incredibly broken, so incredibly broken.
And now we're still in touch.
And I see her years later
and she she for years
now has been absolutely flourishing.
And it's really it's
that moment of separation.
And when you're in the weeds
with dealing with,
you know, trying to sort out your issues,
your finances and time
with your precious children,
it feels like it's never going to end.
But even in the worst of situations,
it does.
And at the risk of using a cheesy umbrella
metaphor, the sun does shine again,
you know, like it does.
And, you know this from working
with people to Amanda, that it's
it feels like help.
But you do come out the other side.
And I think it's important
to take that and hold onto that
that kernel of hope, too.
And you want to know that you did
everything that you could to show up
with dignity and respect
for someone that you've loved and that you
spent a chunk of your life time with
and maybe even share have kids with.
And you want to look back and go
ethically.
And, you know, with my integrity,
I showed up to be the best person
that I could.
You want to feel that.
And almost that's
what I call a conscious break up. And
it is totally possible.
And it can be very healing
for the ending of that relationship,
too, is how you want to handle that
and how you show up.
And that's why mediation is wonderful,
because it is a space
that's not necessarily a battle.
It's a space where you guys can safely
go instead of This is mine,
this is mine, this is mine Not giving.
You could also start
the conversation around
what is it that you need to feel safe
in this separation?
What is it that you need?
And then start
drawing it up on the whiteboards?
That usually happens in the mediation
and you can hug at the end.
Can Amanda Yes, I have to show
that snippet of this podcast to my clients
because that's exactly how I like people
to think and feel.
And in fact, we had a gorgeous mediator,
colleague of mine
speak to our team
just this week about helping people to
safely consciously
and with dignity prepare for mediation
and that understanding around.
Again, it's not necessarily
hanging on to oh, but we need to make sure
that this tiny thing is in the asset pool
and we need to go for a percentage.
It's really about let's create
a vision for the future.
What is it that once we're through this,
you want life to look like
and how can we work through
dividing things that we've had together
so that we can both live in the best
possible way moving forward?
And there's no doubt that
that's always much harder
when you splitting things
in whatever percentage, right?
I mean, that's the thing about the family
law process
for many people from a kind of character
perspective and a sole perspective,
sometimes it's a really positive journey
for them.
But ultimately you're going to be spending
less time with your children
and you're going to be having less of
what was your money.
However you look at it.
And even with the best outcome,
those two things are inevitable
because what was once
whole is now being divided.
So that's going to be hard.
But yes,
I think if people can really feel into
and sometimes it's an opportunity
to forge a much better
new life,
even with different arrangements.
Absolutely.
And as a kinesiology, the other advice
that I can give is when we're stressed,
we usually use more of our intellect
then our intuition and God
and when you can listen with an open heart
more intuitively,
you can hear more
what the other person needs to feel safe.
And if you offer that energetically, then
you're going to receive the same back,
hopefully from the other person.
And that's where it can become more
of a conscious separation. Yes.
And this is where I see a lot of merit in
family lawyers and physiologists
and in particular
you and me working together
to be able to offer people that support,
because I think that sometimes
people don't expect their lawyers to be
the ones that help them to think
in that way and to use the beautiful words
that you've just used.
So to have two people on the team
who can be really supporting them,
but one that's perhaps
dropping much more into the heart space
and in the intuition
and getting them to be guided in that way.
I think it's so valuable
because it's and often to people,
that's the way they've lived
or the way that they want to live.
So it's nice
if it can as much as possible,
also be the way that they separate,
even if they might be the only one that's
holding the good energy
because their partner might be so bound
up, so deeply grieving or so mad,
or just a difficult character.
But I think it's still helpful.
And you would know as well
that one person can sort of work
to change the energy, ideally.
Exactly. It's an opportunity.
It's an sure.
You know, matter what's happened between
your what that other person has done.
What you've done is
you can choose to shift into a new
chapter,
a new radio station, a frequency of energy
to make a change, and to forgive
the past and reset completely.
And it can you can
you know,
it can lead to a beautiful friendship,
particularly
if you've got family together.
You know, it's in everyone's
best interest to develop
a new, strong and intimate relationship.
That's that's just different. Yeah.
And as you're saying
that, I'm sitting here
with kind of the words
and vibe of some of my clients
who are stuck in the trenches.
And I can imagine them hearing
that thinking, Well, not with my ex.
I can't, you know, when I am conscious
that I kind of want to acknowledge that
for some people, however much
we might say, it can be done beautifully.
And and certainly for people
that come to me that come to you.
But but in particularly in loyal
Ed that come to me, I they often like that
I've offered them a way of thinking
that is less combative.
But of course, sometimes
people do end up in court
and they do end up with exes
who absolutely won't budge on a thing.
And it is horrible.
Those people too, will come out
the other end and they also can benefit
from being supported during that journey
from somebody like you so that at least
whatever they're doing is resonating
with their goals and values and
being right.
Absolutely.
But yes, I just kind of
do want to acknowledge that.
Yes, sometimes
much as we would like it to be better.
Yeah.
Collectively, if there's too much
negativity coming from the other.
Side, just not happening,
it can be too toxic,
but we can always choose
how we will respond in that situation.
Exactly. Exactly.
And I think that's what we as a firm
do as well, is that
we don't write toxic letters.
We advocate for our clients,
but we show up in a way
that is still kind of professional
and provides
an element of dignity for our clients
because it doesn't have to be
it has to be difficult,
but it doesn't have to be kind of
nasty, I guess.
Is that why it's important
what lawyer you choose?
Because the law is the law,
but different lawyers
have different strategies of execution.
That's exactly right.
And, you know,
there are certainly some firms
that we get a letter and we just know
that we're going to be in for nothing
less than a battle
because that's the way that they operate.
And I've had a really beautiful experience
lately
where I've met a number of people out
in the profession, other lawyers
who have said
that they they never groan
when they get a letter from Umbrella.
And I'm really happy about that
because it means that my team
are reflecting the values
that my business partner and I have.
And we're doing our jobs,
but we're not doing it in a way
that is nasty and that kind of
makes anybody duck for cover,
which I think is good actually.
Definitely Any energy
you're creating in that entity,
I imagine you're probably, you know,
continuously attracting cases
that don't get as nasty either.
I don't know.
We certainly attract clients
that don't get as nasty,
but not necessarily cases
that don't get as nasty, unfortunately,
unfortunately,
because again, as I was saying before,
sometimes no matter what you put out,
you don't get it back.
Well,
you might have a different view on that.
But from a lawyer
perspective, that certainly. Yeah.
Yeah.
And one final question
I want to ask you is what's the most
inspiring day you've had at work?
It's such a great question.
I'm sure there's so many, but.
I guess a lot of them are inspiring.
Yes, all but actually in recent times
I help this gorgeous, gorgeous man to
whose ex was not letting him spend
any time with his young children.
I helped him through that journey
and that was a court process.
And he and his new partner
and their baby came in to say thank you.
And they brought gifts for me
and gifts for the staff.
And because they'd been so touched
by the way that we'd supported them
through the journey back
to spending time with his kids and for me.
And that was such good people
and such a beautiful family.
And for me that was inspiring,
not because I got gifts,
but because it was so beautiful
to see the impact that our team through
not just, yes, issuing court proceedings
and coming out the other side,
but through providing actual personal care
that had had such a great impact
on that family.
And to see him moving forward
and flourishing with the new partner
and the gorgeous new baby
and and he showed me
he actually brought me a family photo
which sits in pride of place in my office,
because helping families
is what it's all about. Right?
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Yeah, it was great because God bless you.
If you ever say this,
you'll know who you are.
And God bless you and your family.
So many people are going
to get so much out of today's podcast.
I really appreciate your time, Jane.
Thank you so much for sharing that
beautiful wisdom.
Thank you, Amanda.
It's been beautiful to be here.
Oh, my pleasure, guys.
Check out
umbrella Family law dot com today.
You and I'll have all of the notes
and information
of how to find Jane in the blog
and in the podcast.
And thank you all for listening.
And Jane,
I'll see you again soon you say thanks.
Thank you for joining us
for another inspiring episode of Bend
Like Bamboo.
I hope the stories and insights
shared today have sparked new ideas
about resilience, the power of your mind,
and the importance of flexibility
in your own life.
If you've enjoyed this episode,
I'd be grateful if you could write
and share it with others who might benefit
from these powerful conversations.
Whether you're facing challenges
in your health, career, or personal life,
I hope that the lessons we explore here
can help you to develop
a more resilient mindset
and adaptable approach.
If you would like to know more
about kinesiology, my new book
or how the Bend like Bamboo Program
can help you or your team, please
reach out by booking a free discovery
chat on my website.
Bend like bamboo dot com.
Thank you for being part of my community.
And until next time, keep
bending your way to a happy, healthy. You.