Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to
take a moment, a moment in your
day, where you simply soften,
taking a breath in and a breath out.
Breathing in and breathing out,
allowing your entire system to soften,
watching what comes first.
Maybe it's the thoughts, quieting,
breathing in and breathing out.
Alternatively, it might be the
physical body relaxing and melting.
In whatever fashion you find yourself
softening, take a moment to listen.
Watch what's arising
and simply be present.
Breathing in, and breathing out,
let this experience expand.
Continuing to find your focus
in the quiet,
in the softening,
and in the immersion
of your entire system.
Taking one final breath in, and a
breath out, allowing yourself to land,
allowing yourself to feel calibrated,
centered, and coming into grounding.
And with no rush, no sense of urgency,
Opening your eyes to see the room, and
to see yourself a little differently
than when you first started.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics,
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression, to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today I am in pause.
I am in gratitude.
I am in wonderful humor, light.
Adam, you are one of the most special
people on my planet, in my universe.
How are you coming in today?
Feeling more grounded since the
meditation, just cause we're
living in chaos and moving between
worlds of work and introspection.
And so a really beautiful pause in my
day to get to spend time with you today.
You bring up something
quickly before we get started.
That is taking my attention and my love
affair for going down in a wormhole
one of the things I honor about you
and respect about the work we've done
together is your capacity to keep
one foot in and one foot out, right?
The, the introspection, the
reflection, but also like the
concrete sequential, is that accurate?
And how do you know this?
Like we all are looking for the
spiritual, but you really do a
wonderful job at landing things too.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the part that is, The
grounding for me is, my family, and so,
it would be easy, I think, to get lost in
continually trying to, experience the The
cosmos, the, the spiritual side of the
psychedelics and different things that,
if I didn't have the grounding tether of
my family, and it's also the things that
I go into psychedelic experiences to work
on or process or all of a sudden come up
with new things that I'm really wanting
to bring into this world as well as.
Experience this world in a, in
a more healthy way as well as
sort of bring back some of
the so above, so below type of
things, you know, I do know.
And on a random editorial is we're also
in a father support group because when
you say family, what you really mean is
learning the ABCs for the last 20 years
as parents to a large amount of children.
So the second is teaching us how to
manage and maneuver the spectrum of
one years old till 19 years old, right?
Yeah.
And it's that, I think the thing that
I really loved about working with
you is just finding the gentleness
in it, and, and bringing that.
To my kids, you know, and I think one of
the, as you say that, like things that
popped to mind was during COVID we were
building a COVID garden and I come from
a pretty intense athletic background.
And so I'm rounding up my teenage
kids and, or they weren't even
teenagers at that point, but, and
And I'm like, , using my coach voice.
And they all start almost crying and
they're like, you're yelling at us.
I'm not yelling.
I'm teaching, you know, and in it, I
was like, hi, this is like my language.
I, how do I change this?
, this is like what I've grown up with.
This is how I was taught
how to like communicate.
And it's , as I raise my voice, it's
not that I'm mad or, that it's just, I'm
getting the point across or whatever.
And, and it was a little, you know,
there, there was some tension in
the house and my wife's you can't
talk to people that way anymore.
And if I can actually change this.
I was like, it was like, it.
It's kind of scary when you step into that
new space or one that you don't even know
there's actual potential for, , it's like,
is this, do I have the capacity to do this
or to, to change this part of myself and
and so I think in that, I like went in
to, Some like very light journeys, not
even journey work, just a lighter expanded
state and with deep intention to change
those things about myself with support,
you know, and it, within three to four
months, it really significantly changed.
And I, it was, it was pretty shocking.
And also this place of,
oh, you, you can change quite a bit,
and so that was really something
that was very, very profound.
That is extremely profound.
And you are alluding to your medicine
journeys and the devotion you have what
was the beginning of the integration
and the introduction to psychedelics?
Yeah.
So psychedelics for me were a fascination.
I had never done them.
I'd never used them.
I had been kind of following
the research of it.
And thought it was fascinating, but also
terrifying because I was, I'd never used,
drugs and I was also dealing, you know,
like kind of dealing with former, head
trauma and stuff like that from, you know,
Being an athlete and was concerned that,
you know, I was starting to have like
CTE and, and different things like that.
And so just in researching all that, I'm
like, well, if these things can grow new
neurons and pathways and stuff like that,
that can't be bad for CTE or whatever.
And and then at one, and then my.
Wife at the time she died of
a brain aneurysm in my arms.
And and so
I knew that that would be a part
of my journey at that point,
but I wanted to make sure that I
could land, like I didn't want
to lose my mind and not be able
to be there for my kids and.
Different things like that.
And so once I was sufficiently grounded,
I embarked on my own journey with it and
which was beautiful and profound and, and
then within, I think the thing that the
other part that in that was like, I was
doing intense therapy at the time too.
It wasn't psychedelic in nature.
With this, psychedelic
integration person, but that's
what I was essentially doing.
You're saying something profound
and I want to take a moment
to honor you and your story.
and paid deep gratitude for your intuition
and your brilliance to research it.
And what I also heard is your intense
intuition to know that I needed to be
grounded in order to embark on this.
And so often that cart is usually
put before the horse that people
forget to ground or have a skill set.
Or understanding of what they're
walking into and what I'm hearing is
a deep reverence for you that said
I'm going to look at this a little bit
and ground it before I embark on it.
What was that like, knowing what you were
intentionally going to do medicine work?
I don't know.
It was just, like almost like
skydiving, it's like, okay,
I'm going to jump, here we go.
And
and then allowing the experience to
flow through my body and experience
what I was going to experience.
And like, I'd also done kind of so
much research around it that, you know,
like, I was like, okay, whatever happens
comes up and, you know, go through
and so it you know, just
kind of flowed within it and
danced within the psychedelic
space and and allowed all the
emotions and everything to flow.
What's the emotion right now that
you're having in your body and that I'm
witnessing in you as you're recounting
your invitation to psychedelics?
I'm definitely
my nervous system's feeling
triggered a little bit.
You know, and
feeling, you know, like
having those like, not flashbacks,
but little, deep, you know,
it's a deep, deep memory.
Yeah.
Of that experience and kind of like what
my body went through at that moment, you
know, I do know and what I admire about
you and the work that you and I do is
your capacity to be present talking about
it right now and also knowing the trust
you have and being able to process it.
How do once again, you walk with one
foot and feeling that so intimately
and yet knowing in this moment.
It's supporting you in the reprocessing.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the, there was a,
one of the psychedelic I think it
was Rick Doblin said this and he was
talking about working with MDMA and
he said, and I don't know if this
is actually true, but it makes sense
for me, you know that like, when we.
You know, like work with, like with
MDMA specifically, there's this
part where we can experience we're
experiencing the trauma, but it doesn't
have the same emotion attached to it.
And so that when you put that
back into your memory banks, the,
the memory doesn't have as much.
pain associated with it.
And so
when
my wife died
that's an altered state, and
there's lots of, it was, there was
lots of feelings, but then also
I stopped sleeping, started having, what
we would call a manic type of experience.
And so, you know, seven days, you know,
five to seven days after your somebody's
died in your arms you shouldn't be at
like a seven out of 10 emotionally.
And I was aware that I was
in this heightened state of.
Experience.
And so I was like, well, what if I just
process this over and over and over again
and tell the story over and over again
while I'm in this heightened state, maybe
that will transfer over We're
dealing with this later on.
And I think a lot of people
thought it was crazy to do that.
They were like, it was very
uncomfortable for other people.
You know, even professionals to, to,
to hear me do that, but I was like
doing it with kind of a purpose.
And and so I think that that
experience and that knowing that
I could kind of get through.
that emotional challenge
and, you know, this is okay.
This is how you process it.
And like, you're just, I was at
that point just fucking making it up,
you know, or taking all the little
full bits of knowledge and skills
that I had to like navigate it.
Thank you for that.
In this moment, what's
your body saying to you?
Been through a lot.
And I just want to validate
it and honor you in that.
The tremendous.
Honesty that you're presenting
yourself and in this moment what
I hear also is a devotion to the
medicine It's it doesn't come easy.
Does it
no and it's you know those
I think the thing that
that I
don't shy away from is is pain.
From my athletic background and
different things like that, it's like
press into pain, don't avoid it, and
the more you avoid, you know, at least
for me, you know, it's like avoiding
the pain is makes it worse, you know?
And and so Like
going down to my little tiny
house and, you know, call it the
shrieking shack and, getting it
out, processing it out, purging it.
Right.
And do you get the sense to speak
more about intentionality because
of your relationship with medicine?
Are you noticing when something will
come with intentionality, be it healing
biographical trauma, or when There's
invitations from say the universe or
God that has nothing to do with your
biological story Do you when you're
about to step foot into your work?
Do you know this any difference of
healing your biographical story or
honoring what has not taken place yet?
Yeah, I think
now the You know, like there's,
there's just kind of sometimes like
purging, you know, of, fact that
it's like, okay, this is, I'm feeling
this, all this stuff in my body and
it just needs to process through.
And recognizing, I think in that
the, the one thing that I've kind
of realized is the, the larger, more
mystical types of experiences, like
the deeper ones are ones that I.
Want to take on less often because I
want to be here and the larger stuff
is like, you know, dissociative and
it like wants, you know, like it
feels like, oh, well that world is
better than this one or whatever.
And so then afterwards it's
like, You know, for me, I
like, I call it being slippery.
You know, it's like for like two
weeks, it takes me two, three weeks.
It takes me to, you know,
like really land the ship.
And and so to go on that like deeper
spiritual journey is one that I.
Too less often because it's not because
it's makes me want to be somewhere else,
you know, yeah, I do know and Adam I'm
super grateful for this pause in this
moment within our conversation because
what I'm Witnessing a new and evident
with many people that hold medicines
and psychedelic experiences with so much
reverence is they speak very much like
you where they say I'm not going to be
doing big ones because it it does start
to invite in this idea of not being
completely present to the lived experience
and you're Why isn't your intentionality
of integration afterwards I hear and work
with you so often and the preparation you
do acknowledges we do need to be here.
We physically need to be on this
planet to live out our experience.
No.
Yeah.
What do you make of that slipperiness
and what do you do to land?
What, how do you personally integrate
when those big experiences are
in existence or have taken place?
I think it's, it's gotten.
In certain ways, easier because I know
what to expect but the, , like the
first time you go through it, like I,
I didn't know that there's the level of
like, don't make any major decisions,
which, in the first two or three weeks.
Relationship or financial or housing
or different things like that.
And so I think there's a certain
level of I don't know, for me, it
was like a speeding up of like, and
recognizing, oh, you're just, this is.
You landing the ship and you
speeding up is not actually helping.
And so, you know, slowing down
and just really becoming aware
of, Oh, that's a thought.
Let's see what that looks like
in two weeks type of thing.
A great way of saying it.
One of the things I first have to endorse
is your laughter amongst this all is
recognizing, yeah, the quick decisions
of buying the thing or quitting the
thing or doing the thing needs to be
tapered and you can have the thought,
but you don't have to act on the thought.
Yeah, totally.
And I, and I think too, that, you
know, like I recognized within that,
the The safety, you know, like the
safety part of that for myself is that
I think it's a, you know, my response
to like, keep myself safe is to speed
up and to like, you know, like, okay,
we got something needs to change.
I need to like do, you
know, like do, do, do.
And.
As opposed to just being with it, you
know, and how do you work with that?
Because I have that same feeling of the
presence of pace being super important.
So I hear your presence of paces.
If I find something, I
need to do it faster.
How do you like throttle
that or slow that down?
I
think that's in a lot of ways,
actually, the one of the biggest
things I've gotten from working
with you is, is just been that like,
Let's sit with this for a while, let's
sit with that feeling, let's, and then
also like communicate at a high level with
other people that are, that recognize,
you know, that, that know that the, the,
you know, like, and they're like, it can
be all breaks, no gas or no, all gas, no,
yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I'll get a break.
And the intimate partners and family and
friends go, Hey, break pedal, break pedal.
But you do a wonderful job.
And I appreciate your articulation in that
is because you do clearly communicate and
you are you, your presence to your paws.
And that's been, I mean,
that's, that's been a huge work.
Is that communication piece?
Cause it's the scariest part,
you know, it's like that level of
like knowing, you know, you're.
You know, am I going to be rejected for
these crazy thoughts that I'm having
or, you know, and then if, if I, you
know, like push them down and avoid
them and everything else, I end up, you
know, like, It coming out sideways, you
know, and so that level of like, okay,
I either, you know, need to sit down
and write this down and like really
process it by myself or I need to do that
with, you know, somebody that loves me.
Thank you.
And you.
And I endorse all of that with
the exception of, you know,
prepper bunkers we're creating.
We need to do that faster.
Oh, we need to get some extra food.
Tons more food.
Dig deeper.
Adam, I appreciate your levity and
I appreciate your deep seriousness.
What do you owe the psychedelic medicine?
What would you say you're most
devoted to and what it provides you?
I think it's the, the spiritual path
that I had been seeking since the child,
you know, like I had always been on that
spiritual path, but it was like, I didn't
have the, I was always looking for the.
The actual experience of it, the
experiential spiritual experience, you
know, and that's, I think that's what I
owe the medicine as well as like truly
starting to see and love
myself the way I should.
That's fantastic, and I see that in
you, and I see you as an exemplified
person doing that, and for your
children, and your wife, and all
the people that are around you,
a lot of light, a lot of light.
What are you doing to
be gentle with yourself?
I think the,
allowing, like, I think one of the
things that, I'm pretty critical of
myself, and I think over the last, Six
months, really even just, you know, like
I decided to stop digging myself deeper in
a hole by being a real asshole to myself
and, you know, like just loving
those, you know, parts of myself that.
are non functional in the real world at
times and and just, you know, having some,
having more levity towards it of like,
Oh yeah, you completely left your child.
For like an hour after they were surfing
and they're freezing cold, it might've
been more close to two to three hours,
but there's just certain parts of
like, you know, your brain just, you
know, sometimes goes haywire and then
you just love them up and, allow them
to, Process that and be uncomfortable.
I'm like, yeah, I get to be uncomfortable.
I dad screwed up or whatever it
is but not, but, but seeing the
full picture of myself versus the,
the day to day crisis manager.
That's a really brilliant point and I
want to echo it, just allow you to see
yourself for the whole picture and who
you represent and what you stand for.
Adam, I'm super humbled to be on
this journey with you and I thank you
deeply with much love and appreciation.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ryan.