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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we're here to bring you episodes that blend meaningful work with profitable success. Here to steward what I call The Age of Humanity. I believe if we transform the way we work, we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episode and leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. All right, let's get into it, shall we? Welcome to Business is Human, where we explore the intersection of brain, science, the Bible, and business.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:49]:
Today's episode, what do you do when some of your team members aren't interested in climbing the ladder, the fictitious proverbial ladder? They don't want to join the committees or live and breathe the mission statement that you work so hard on at the retreat. They're just there for the paycheck. Here's the twist. Before I tell you the twist, just pause and ask yourself, what was your immediate response to that? We're like, oh, my gosh, what should we do? We need to make sure that they're mission driven. We gotta get them involved. Engagement. Engagement. Here's the twist.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:35]:
It is perfectly okay if people just want to show up for the paycheck. So we're going to talk about how to lead them well, how to honor their humanity and their choices and to help release the shame and the frustration that can often creep in on both sides for the employee and the leader. I think we've pushed this mission driven thing a little too far. Yes. I believe we should make sure that people know the connection of who the business is for who you serve, why it matters. That's good business. But to think that everybody wants to aspire to some fictitious ladder climbing thing, I think that's a little rough. So.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:28]:
And I've. And I hear it. I have, I have people that I've worked with, coached that have said, how do I help my leader understand that I'm perfectly happy in the role that I want, I don't want to be promoted. And. And they think that something's wrong with me. Or worse yet, it's when it's a woman who has children and they think it's because they can't hack it as a mom. And so there's this feeling of they're not as good because they don't want to climb the ladder. And y'all, that gets me fired all the way up.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:04]:
But it also happens with men too, where maybe they've got this, like, creative side hustle endeavor that they love. Maybe they're writing music and doing art or doing something that doesn't make enough money right now, or maybe it never will. They don't want it to be their main vocation. And so they need the paycheck to pay the bills, but it pays the bill so they can go do the thing they really love. There's not a dang thing wrong with that, y'all. And so I want to talk about, like I said, how to lead them well, how to honor them and not have anybody feeling any kind of shame or frustration. So part one. What's the science behind motivation? What's the brain telling us about motivation? Because everybody is wired differently.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:54]:
We're all unique down to our fingerprints. And some people are more driven by purpose. Others are more driven by stability or autonomy or creativity or rewards. Like, everybody has a different motivation factor, but the universal motivation drivers. From a science perspective. Daniel Pink's book Drive outlined this really well. Autonomy, mastery and purpose, which was recircled, recircled, recycled and recycled, I guess from Self-Determination theory. It's just a science thing so you can present it in a lot of different ways.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:37]:
Nothing wrong with that. Autonomy simply means that people want to feel in control of their choices. They want to know that they have choice. Now the buzzword that people are using is agency. They want to know that they have got the freedom and to. To lead their own lives. Some might call it write your own story, you know what I'm saying? So, so to be just, I. I've.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:02]:
I can create my own life. Competence is feeling effective and capable and able to, like, have the skills to do your job. And then relatedness is feeling connected to others. So autonomy, mastery and purpose is how Daniel Pink did it. Self determination theory is autonomy, competence and relatedness. So the relatedness is what I'm talking about when I talk about The Age of Humanity. So that's the shift from the industrial age, which is largely about control, where we've separated a lot of the work out into departments and pieces and parts so that we can control, measure and optimize the smaller piece of the business. That's what's got us disconnected and feeling like machines here.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:50]:
To produce The Age of Humanity is based on connection, relatedness. How does my work impact the greater good, especially as it relates to. Drumroll, please. Humans, people. It's not enough to say we're gonna take this hill and we're gonna increase market share by 30%, nobody cares about that. But if you say, well, the leaders care, the people who get paid the most care, the shareholders care. But if you're connecting people and giving them relatedness, it needs to be based on some aspect of humanity. So, great, increase your market share by 30%, but do it by serving humans, more humans, or serve the ones you got in a better way so they pay you more.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:37]:
But make sure everybody is related to the human aspect of your business. So if somebody's there to get a paycheck that provides stability and safety, a basic human need that we all have, and it needs to be met in order for people to feel safe enough to explore anything else that might even be mission related. And so another fact about this is, if. If people aren't being paid enough to feel safe and live well, they ain't caring about your mission. They're trying to pay for daycare and diapers, y'all. Or they're just making sure that they're not going to get thrown out of their crappy apartment. When that's where you're at, you don't give a rat's patoot about mission. You're just trying to survive.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:29]:
So when you hear people with the rallying cry of, you know, be. People need to be paid a living wage, that's what it means. I, you gotta have enough safety and security that I can access other parts of my brain because I'm not afraid all the time. If someone is paycheck driven, their nervous system might just be seeking that safety so that they can feel okay. And so it's not about, they're not inspired. So don't judge people that you think aren't inspired. You may not know them well enough to know their situation. And that's also part of the relatedness problem.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:09]:
Because if nobody in the business is really connected to know them and their story, then shame on you for thinking that you've got judgment on people that you don't know. Because if that's the case, you probably also have not created an environment that's safe enough that that person feels that they can share what's going on with them for you to know them. And so there's a whole lot involved in what it means to be truly connected. But I can tell you one thing for sure. Shaming anyone for any of that or believing the way that you see the world in the Business is the way that everybody should see the world in the business. That reduces engagement. I hate the word engagement. Talk about that another day.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:53]:
I haven't fleshed it all out to figure out how I'm gonna talk about it yet. It's just in my bones. It bothers me because it feels like a trap. I'm gonna engage you, like, open the gate and put them in there and then shut it really fast. I don't know, it just doesn't. It doesn't feel like choice and agency and freedom. But back to the original point. We have to recognize that we are all unique, down to our fingerprints, on purpose, for a purpose.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:19]:
And expecting people to be like you means there should maybe be some reflection time for you to ask yourself why that is. And I'm not. No shame or shade. We all have opportunities in our lives. I, for a long time, couldn't understand why people didn't see things the way I saw them. I'm not judging you. I'm saying this is part of the. And this is another term I don't love, part of doing the work.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:49]:
It's part of observing yourself, to ask yourself if this is serving you and others in a beautiful way. Kind of in a mood today. Can you tell? But the truth is that the amygdala, your fear center, is activated when people feel judged, pressured, or devalued. When leaders provide psychological safety and choice, the prefrontal cortex then is able to engage. And that is where people can access problem solving, creativity, and ownership. So if you've got a group of employees, frontline employees, that aren't engaging to help solve business problems, like, a lot of times you'll hear about this in the factory. There's problem on the line. Why aren't the people working on the line given ideas on how to fix it or improve it? Well, if they're not being paid enough, they're on the line worried about if they can make rent.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:59]:
And so they're not paying any attention to the way that the line is running. They're just doing what they can do to get by so they can get their little tiny paycheck and figure out how they're going to make the rest of the money to buy food. I mean, that's a dramatic example, but that's real. And as expensive as everything has been for the last few years, people making six figures are still struggling to pay the bills. So this is not about $15 an hour person. This is. You have executives that are trying to figure out how to pay for stuff because they built a lifestyle based on an economy that didn't exist for the last few years. And so anytime we're feeling afraid about our basic human needs and anytime we're doing something as leaders that cause people to feel some kind of way that causes fear, you're not going to get mission driven people because they've got to take care of themselves first before they can really connect and help you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:56]:
Okay, let's move on to a new aspect of this. This part is the big part. You ready? Without requiring them to prove it by joining some committee or wanting to be a part of some development program or get into the leadership track, anytime you want someone to prove themselves, that's fear inducing to that person because you have questioned their identity, their worth, their value as a human by the way that they live their life by thinking that they should want more or they should want what you want them to do. And then you've created disconnection, not connection, because you know what that says, you're trying to control them. And anytime someone's trying to be controlled, they are naturally in their subconscious going to fight that. And it's going to trigger that amygdala fight flight mode. Like I don't want to be controlled. It's not easy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:58]:
Everybody's different. And as a leader, sometimes, not sometimes, all the time, that makes our jobs hard because we'd like to just throw out a strategy that's going to fit for everybody and that just isn't real. So how do you lead? Well, when someone's not interested in this other stuff, the extra stuff, well, clarify expectations and respect the boundaries. Make sure that they know what's expected in their role and what isn't. So be really clear. And if it's not expected for their role and they don't want to aspire to, to doing the other things, you gotta be okay with that. So avoid, you know that term voluntelling. So instead of volunteering, you tell them what they're supposed to choose to do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:49]:
Some people are just happy doing their job. Well, don't guilt trip them for not going above and beyond. Please, please, please, please, please. Because if they can feel safe by just doing a good job in their job, they're going to do a better job, which is in turn going to give you a better outcome as a leader. Then focus your time and attention on the people who don't want the extras. Number two, recognize that excellence where they are matters. Celebrate them. Celebrate the employees who consistently show up, hit their goals and don't cause drama and trouble.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:34]:
For the love of everything holy, don't we wish we had more of them? But you know why we don't have a lot of them? Because we don't reward and celebrate them enough. We're too busy looking for who's signing up for the thing. Not everyone is meant to or. Or wants to move up. Some are the backbone of consistency. And that is holy work. That is a beautiful thing and does not deserve shame and judgment like that gets me emotional because I've talked to those people who say, I wish I could just show up and do a good job and know that that was enough and for the love it should be. Number three, don't assume that they're disengaged.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:19]:
Being just there for the money doesn't mean they aren't committed. Doesn't mean that they don't want to do a good job in the job that they're in. If they're doing their work with integrity, that's engagement. Stop expecting every employee to be the culture ambassador. Some are going to be great. Love them, too. Love them because they are. But don't expect everybody to be number four.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:50]:
Honor their humanity. Engage with them. Ask about their life outside of work. What's going with that side hustle, their music's doing on Spotify, how their art show went, whatever. They're. They're coaching the kids soccer and they're loving it. They're in charge of all the things kids soccer. Build relational trust without expecting some sort of performance uptick.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:21]:
In return for your attention, empower them with the choice. Hey, here's a new project if you want to do it, but no pressure. If not, I'll find somebody else that does. Or maybe it's not a project that needs attention at all right now. Number five, Release shame for you and for them. If you feel frustrated that someone doesn't care as much, that's a great coaching moment for you. Ask what. What that trigger is for you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:55]:
If you want help with that, book some time with me. We don't have to book a full year of coaching, although that'd be super great. Just book a session and say, help me talk through this. Okay, I'd love to do that. I'd love to help you with that. Your job is to lead. Not for you or the company to be. This is.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:15]:
This is. This word's gonna be a trigger. I'll say it anyway because I wrote it in my notes. Your job is to lead. Not. Not for you and the company to be worshipped. For the cult or I want to keep moving because you're probably triggered. If you, if you need your team to mirror your passion, to feel validated, just pause and reflect.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:36]:
No shame, no judgment. I've been there. Like, what the is wrong with that person? Why don't they care more? I'm busting my butt over here. Why can't they? I've been that person. I got no shame or judgment for you. I just got love and the interest and availability to book some time with you to help you do that. It's my job. Our source of worth is God given.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:02]:
It's not based on our productivity or our achievements. And that goes for you, that goes for them, that goes for me. It's not a reflection of your team's enthusiasm. So how about a couple of reflection questions to help you as a result of this episode? Who on your team might you subconsciously, or maybe consciously be judging for not caring enough? And ask yourself what's underneath that judgment? Another one. Are you trying to shape people into your image of what a great employee is? Or are you leading them with curiosity and compassion for who they really are? There's another one. What stories do you tell yourself about people who are just here for the money? And can you flip the script on that story? See it differently so that you can do things differently? So maybe pick an employee that you felt frustrated with. Here's your challenge for the week. Pick an employee that you felt frustrated with and then go have a conversation that really honors them.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:18]:
Ask what they love about their role, what matters to them, what allow what, what do they do outside of work, and then affirm their value based on who they are and the great job that they're doing now. And you know, the best framework for this is VRI, which is my framework that I use in my coaching that I created. Value, Relevance and Impact. Value is who they are, God given gift and talent, how they were wired. Affirm their value, and then tell them how it's relevant and impactful to the role and to the company as they are today without asking them to do more. And just be authentic, be caring, be kind. Ask them what helps them do great work so that you can continue to support them as the backbone of consistency in your organization. How can you say, how can I support you to keep doing the great work in a way that works for your life? Oh my gosh.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:25]:
If you said that to an employee, like, I get emotional just thinking about, if you said it genuinely, you could say, I value the consistency and strength that you bring to this role. Even if leadership or extra projects aren't what you're interested in. You're a key part of this team, y'all. They would go home such a different person by being affirmed in that way than the low grade fever of shame that they carry around. Okay, so what if you're the employee who's just there for the paycheck and wants to stay there but be respected for that? Try this one. See if you can have a conversation with your manager or leader and say, I'm committed to doing my job well and I really do want to am contributing, want to continue to contribute to the team even though I'm not looking to move up or take on more right now. I appreciate your support in helping me grow within my role and that you see the value that I bring and then just consistently show up with excellence in what you're committed to do. Continue to perform with integrity and communicate honestly and know that that matters.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:42]:
Whether somebody else acknowledges it in you or not. I want you to know that that matters. And if you're a prayerful one, I can tell you right now that God sees it. Even if you're not a prayerful one. God saved it. And that's enough every day. And that's enough for this episode, too, don't you think? All right, y'all, till next time. Love you mean it. Bye.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:13]:
Thanks for being here. You can follow us on Instagram, Business is Human or TikTok Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. It's a great way to share some of the clips with your colleagues and friends. All right. Make it a great day. Love you. Mean it.