Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A podcast that explores how AI is transforming careers, businesses, and industries. Hosts Greg Boone and Erica Rooney deliver real-world use cases and actionable AI strategies to help professionals stay ahead of the curve.
Learn more about your hosts:
Erica Rooney, author of The AI Gap: Women, AI, and the Next Great Leap Forward
Greg Boone, author of AI at the Speed of Trust (available for pre-order)
And the big problem with AI, I think, is
if you don't know the answer, everything
looks like magic with AI, right?
If you had no knowledge of math and I gave
you on a phone or a magic box, uh, uh,
a, a system that when you ask a question
gave you a number back in less than a
second, you would think this is magical.
And I think this is where, uh, we, we,
we really need to kind of build more
of that, uh, capability, that knowledge
of h- how the system works, because
amplification and AI as a co-founder
is really where you're working with an
entity that has some capabilities that
can help you augment and a- amplify your
skills, but still operates under your
authority and your ethics and your kind
of own responsibility and accountability.
And I think that's what I
mean by AI as a co-founder.
AI isn't the future.
It's now.
And whether you're in HR, sales,
operations, or leadership, the
choices you make today will determine
whether you thrive or get left behind.
Well, today we're gonna get
started with AI Voice or Victim.
I am the host.
Uh, typically I'm the co-host
with my partner, Erica Rooney,
but today I'm gonna be solo.
Uh, again, my name is Greg Boone.
I'm CEO of Walk West.
I'm an AI strategist and someone
that's really at the kind of the
forefront of understanding and having
these conversations around AI, what
it's gonna do to, uh, the future of
work and to our society as a whole.
Uh, today I have-- I am just so honored
to have a guest here, Arnaud Frade
, coming all the way from Singapore,
I guess originally from France.
That's right.
Um, Arnaud is a global executive
consultant, AI strategist, but now,
you know, you're also an author, right?
You have your first book out, and
so that's what's really brought me
here to this conversation today.
I'm so excited for you.
And so with that in mind, tell
the audience a little bit about
yourself before we kinda get
into o- our conversation today.
Well, first thing, uh, Greg,
thank you very much for having me.
Really appreciate it.
I know it's early for you, so, you
know, it's, uh, it's really, uh,
extremely, uh, nice of you to have me.
Uh, so I'm Arnaud.
Uh, I'm based in Singapore.
I've been in Singapore
for the last 20 years.
Uh, my background is in, uh, building or
rebuilding, um, business units and, and
teams for professional services firms.
So I've worked across, um, uh, the
advertising industry, uh, or-- and,
and the market research industry, as
well as, uh, the consulting industry.
Um, and, you know, today I, I
work with, um, a company called
PureSpectrum, uh, but I also work,
uh, on-- uh, as a, as an author.
I'm also an author of, uh, The
Sentient Startup, um, which is, um,
you know, a book that is coming out
on April 28 with Penguin Random House.
Um, but is a book really
that is, um, almost, I would
say, 10 years in the making.
Uh, so these things don't
happen really quickly.
Um, I started writing on AI in 2016,
initially on a slightly different
topic, slightly different angle, which
was the idea that, um, uh, marketers
were going to have to start to market
to algorithms because those were
powering the search that were actually
delivering products to consumers.
And so the idea of this, this kind
of first attempt called algomarketing
was exactly that, is how do we better
understand the relationship we have
with these algorithms that, uh, power
search and power product selection?
And then I kind of, you know, ran out
of words and never really published
this and didn't know anything about
publishing either, but continued learning
a lot about AI and went down the rabbit
hole of engaging with researchers,
which at the time was really, really
easy, and, um, getting to bet- to
understand better what was happening.
Uh, the advent of ChatGPT or GPT-1
in 2019, uh, you know, the, the,
the rise of that, um, I would say
consumer-facing, uh, kind of set of
tools and, and chat-based, uh, tools.
And then in 2023, um, Altman, Sam Altman
was at a conference, and he kind of
jokingly said that he and his, um, uh,
Silicon Valley buddies were betting on
who was going to be the first solopreneur
to build a unicorn, thanks to ChatGPT.
And to me, that was really a, a kind of
a bit of an epiphany in terms of thinking
about this idea that actually with, uh,
some of these, uh, tools, some of these
capabilities, you could actually scale up,
uh, business activities, not necessarily
as a solopreneur, uh, but really thinking
about how a few people together with
those tool could really build much faster.
And that's the, the premise, uh, for The
Sentient Startup: AI As Your Co-founder.
It's really the premise that we're
opening up a, um, a set of opportunities
For startups, for scale-ups, for
large enterprises to really grow, um,
much faster by rethinking how they're
operating, thanks to some of these tools.
Uh, and obviously within a context of
ethics and integrity, that's a really
big part of what we have to kind of
discuss when we talk about AI, and within
a, a context of human first, right?
And that's also another really
big part of, um, kind of my
beliefs on what we're doing here.
Yeah, I mean, that is, uh, that is
awesome to hear kind of that, that
journey and what brought you here.
I think it's also this moment in time,
I don't know if you've been following
some of this, uh, New York Times story
of the company Medvi- Medvi, uh, with,
uh, Matt Gallagher's on a run rate
for a billion dollars in revenue.
Started as one person,
and he hired his brother.
So when I, you know, heard you, I
was doing some research on you, and
I, I know that that was something
that kind of struck with you.
So I don't wanna get too much into
that, you know, right now, but I
do wanna come back to that at some
point because I was like, "Man, I
thought that was years down the road."
Like, you know.
I think, I think the, the
reality is it's-- all of this
is on a compressed timeline.
Like, everything is happening a lot
faster than expected, or at least
that some, some of us maybe expected.
Um, I think we can talk about
Medvi a little bit later if you
want because I think there's a,
there's a side to the story, right?
Which is really what is
underlying in the business.
There is an FDA investigation into Medvi.
Yes.
So there's a number of things
that are not just on the good
stu- on the good side, right?
That we have to- Yeah.
The, the
headline, uh, does precede some of
the stuff that's going on underneath,
and I'd love to get to that.
But I think it speaks to the, to the,
to kind of the excitement and, and
frankly, like the hysteria, uh, around AI.
And, and I think, you know, w- we're--
there is a propensity to latch onto
these stories because they really
kind of strike the imagination.
Um, but they're also real.
At the bottom o- of the story,
there is a reality which is it
is now possible to scale, right?
It is now possible to scale much
faster than it was before, and I think
that's the important part maybe of
that, that first part of the episode.
So before we get there, let's, let's get
to some of kind of the, uh, your early
kind of entry point into AI, right?
You have the Sentient startup,
AI as your co-founder.
You know, just to kind of like ground
folks in a lot of the conversation that
you and I have had and I've, I've seen
you talk about a lot is like a lot of
people are treating AI as a tool, right?
But then what happens when it
starts to act more as a business
partner or as you describe in
your book, a co-founder, right?
And so before we dive even
further into the book, I mean,
what pulled you into AI, right?
Like right now, like you talked a little
bit about the background What I want
to understand is the learnings and the
education side, 'cause a lot of people
talk at a certain level, right at the
surface, but not a lot of people like
yourself are digging in and trying
to understand what is behind this.
Yeah.
So, uh, it's, it's a great question.
So I think for me, the, the
background is, uh, first my
background is I'm not a developer.
I'm not a, I'm not a
programmer by, by trade.
I'm a, I'm a commercial
and business leader.
And so for me, the, you know, the
early part of trying to understand what
this is about are really deep diving
into the technical aspects of it.
When I start writing kind of this first
idea of a book back in 2016, I'm starting
to correspond with a few researchers.
I'm starting to read, uh, things
that at the time to me are extremely
technical, and it's really about
trying to really understand what's
underpinning, um, the topic.
Um, as we, as we kind of fast-forward,
for me, it's more of a journey of
really trying to, uh, get stuck and
get, get to understand those tools.
Um, I started with, I would say,
the vibe coding phase, right?
Where you start to-- you don't
really understand what you're doing.
You realize that these tools
have massive limitations.
They have huge risk.
There are security risk.
There's, you know, executional
risks, et cetera, and you start
to understand a little bit.
Um, you know, today, um, I've
kind of progressed through that.
Um, I've started to learn more
about the intricacies of, of coding.
I'm working on some, uh, projects.
For example, part of the, the launch
for the book is, um, a panel, a
series of panels I'm going to do with
some fairly well-known companies.
But along those guests, I have built,
uh, an AI panelist from scratch.
Now, that is, for me, an incredible
capa- capability, uh, you
know, in terms of what it does.
It's a completely standalone.
Uh, it, it works off a mini PC.
Uh, it is fully, uh, voice, uh, driven,
so it listens to the conversation.
It speaks, uh, in, you know, perfect tone.
It uses, uh, Claude Code.
It uses ElevenLabs in the background.
And the fact that I could put this
together in basically two days for
$35 is a little bit astonishing.
Uh, when, you know, you kind of--
I, I share the solution with some
professional, uh, developers, and their
feedback was, you know, three, four
years ago, it might have taken them
six months to put that together, right?
Or, or more.
And I think this is where we are today.
We are in an era of acceleration,
uh, and it's really about embracing
those opportunities, right?
There's a lot to learn.
There's a lot of Bad information,
there's a lot of misinformation,
there's a lot of hype, there's a
lot of hysteria, like pure hysteria.
Uh, and there are some,
some very real risks.
Um, but I think it's, it, it falls
upon us to, uh, at least those that
are interested, to try to do anything
you can to learn as much as possible
to really come with an informed view.
And for me, that's the purpose
of the book, by the way.
The book is not, you know,
I'm not expecting to sell,
um, uh, thousands of copies.
I'm expecting that it creates a much
better quality of conversation, right?
And that's really the, the sole
intent of writing it and publishing
it through, uh, Penguin Random House.
Oh, man, that's, uh, that's great color
a- and context, uh, for sure, right?
Like, I listen to a lot of folks
talk about this reality that you
can't have an AI strategy if you
don't first have AI literacy, right?
Totally.
It's like a lot of folks have no
understanding of the capability.
So my background is, uh, my degree
is in computer science, so I used
to write code before I became an
executive, versus like, it seems like
you have been an executive, right?
And now you're becoming
a, a, a coder, right?
I've got a GitHub.
And I do- That's disturbing.
Look, exactly, right?
And yeah, I gotta-- Like, that's
the thing we have to start, like,
um, highlighting with folks.
Like, do you have a GitHub or not?
Yeah.
Right?
Do
you have a repo?
And- Do they have their little-
It- ... little colored square, you know?
Yeah.
So that's- If you have no
repo, you, your hands- Yeah
are not in the dirt, as my
guy Alec Kaufman always says.
You gotta have your, uh, your hands
in the dirt to really understand.
'Cause to your point, you know, it's--
it really is gonna be treated like
a tool or it's gonna be very surface
level if you don't fully understand
the capabilities of what- Totally
you can build.
And not just the capabilities,
but to your point, the risk.
So I wanna m- talk more specifically,
like how did you and I come together?
Because we came over a shared learning
experience kind of at different times
within the kind of the MO- the MIT, uh,
family of, uh, professional education.
So can you give a little
bit of background on that?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, t- to me it's kind of the
same, the same purpose, which is, you
know, I think b- before you, you should
sit at the table, you should have a
better sense of what's being discussed,
how to engage, and what's going on.
And so I wanted to, um, come to
this not just as an author, uh, but
also having, you know, different
kind of learning experiences.
Some I've done on my own.
Um, some I've done through the formal
processes such as MIT or others.
Um, and, and for me it's really part
of the same, uh, approach, which is I
think this is an extremely complex topic.
This is a topic that has ramifications
about, um, how we work, how we
live, how we connect with others.
Um, the future of work is a really
huge topic in all of this, right?
It underpins a lot of things, and
we see some terrible decisions being
made- In the name of AI, right?
That's a, that's a really
challenging part of it.
Uh, and I think you, you, you need to,
again, come from a, a, a perspective of,
uh, humility and, and knowledge, right?
So building your knowledge gradually,
building that experience gradually from
wherever starting point you are at, right?
And, and also some humility in
terms of knowing what you don't
know, trying to figure it out.
You know, I talk to a lot of people.
I mean, I... You know, we're having this
conversation because in the, um, MIT
course we both attended, in the version
I attended, you're one of the use cases.
You're one of the case studies, right?
So I reached out to you.
I thought you had a super interesting
profile, really great achievements, and
to me, that was another step on kind of
learning from somebody really interesting.
You know, learning from somebody that had,
uh, achieved something else in that space.
And that's kind of what I'm trying to do
at the moment, which is connecting with
some incredibly interesting people, um,
building engagement, building conversation
with the sole purpose of augmenting the
knowledge, augmenting the understanding.
And also, you know, when it comes to
talking to companies about strategy, back
to your earlier point, you're spot on.
You can't have an AI strategy
if you don't understand AI, but
there's another dimension to it.
You can't have an AI strategy if you
don't have a strategy to start with.
And so these are the two things
that are really critical,
uh, for, for companies today.
There's a degree of confusion.
Um, and one of the reason I wrote the
book, just to, just to close on this, is
I attended a, a, a corporate event many...
a few years ago, uh, in, in around
2024, just before I, I started
to really kind of dig into it.
And at that event, somebody was
presented, presenting their vision
of AI a-a-and it was frankly,
um, a, a lot of complete rubbish.
It was a lot of nonsense.
Uh, and the problem was the
people in the room, some of the
senior executives, were absolutely
petrified by that description, right?
It was apocalyptic.
It was just a-an exaggeration
o-of, uh, ultimate proportion.
And I think to me, that's also the purpose
is I think- We owe it to ourselves, but
also, uh, to the people we work with and
to the companies we work with to bring
a voice of, uh, reason, a voice of kind
of, uh, caution a- and, and a voice of a
bit of a balancing perspective on some of
the really good things this can generate
and some of the challenges that are
going to come from it, and which we have
to face, uh, you know, head, headfirst.
So that's kind of where I'm coming from.
I mean, that's a good reminder of the
realities of whether it's the hype or
the overselling, kind of the either
the promise or the downside, right?
And you see a lot of this
hyperbole out there in the market.
And similar to yourself and your
background, right, when, when Dr.
Westerman at, uh, at MIT asked, you
know, could they use my video case study
for future, uh, MIT, um, executive ed-
education students, I said absolutely,
because I want it to be helpful.
Like, I don't make any money off of that.
That-- That's not- No, of
course ... the whole purpose of that.
The purpose of it is-- was to show other
folks the art of what is possible, how
transformative this can and will be.
And, you know, um, I have a book
coming out later called AI: The Speed
of Trust, which is in a very kind of
similar vein, and it's just about how
do you get people to understand what's,
uh, the ca- not just the capability,
but what are some of the downside?
How are some of the things-- how are you
gonna navigate some of these challenges?
So getting back to, to your book and
how you're positioned this as AI as a
co-founder, what, what does that mean to
you, and what do you want the audience
to take away from that, that phrasing?
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think
it's really the dichotomy between
delegation or amplification, right?
So for me, one of the books that
I found, uh, most, um, relevant if
you know nothing about AI is, uh,
Ethan Mollick's, uh, Co-Intelligence.
Um, it's-- I think is, is, um, is
a really, uh, is a book that to me
resonated very well because he's a
little bit on the optimistic side maybe.
Uh, but certainly I think his premise,
uh, of, um, AI as the co-intelligence
is really at the heart of my own, uh,
my own view on what, where this is.
And I think if you think about it as a
co-founder, what does that mean to me?
Well, it's the to- it's this
issue of, uh, it's more about
amplification than delegation.
I think at a very basic level, if you
look at AI as a delegation tool, you
think, "Okay, I'm doing this task.
At the moment it's done by somebody else.
I can delegate the task to AI.
I don't need the person anymore."
This is why we see those kind of
absolutely, uh, irrational decisions
of letting go thousands, tens of
thousands of people on the basis of
fake, uh, or faked AI productivity.
But the second part of AI, which I think
is much more important than delegation, is
amplification, is we have a set of skills,
but these tools, these, uh, models can
help us really, uh, amplify those, right?
And, and the big problem with AI,
I think, is if you don't e- if you
don't know the answer, everything
looks like magic with AI, right?
If you had no knowledge of math and I give
you on a phone or a magic box, uh, uh, a,
a system that when you ask a question gave
you a number back in less than a second,
you would think this is magical, right?
But you had no knowledge of the numbers.
So two plus two equals seven, but the
answer came back in less than a second.
It's like magic.
The problem is that's where we are today.
If you don't know the answer,
everything, uh, in AI looks like magic.
But the problem is you really need
to know the answer to understand
what this answer is and whether it
makes sense and whether it's valid.
And I think this is where, uh, we, we,
we really need to kind of build more
of that, uh, capability, that knowledge
of w- how the system works, because
amplification and AI as a co-founder
is really where you're working with an
entity that has some capabilities that
can help you augment and a-amplify your
skills, but still operates under your
authority and your ethics and your kind
of own responsibility and accountability.
And I think that's what I
mean by AI as a co-founder.
Well, thank you for that.
And, uh, as someone who also follows,
uh, Ethan Mollick, uh, a little too
much I'll say, I, I got to see him
on stage a couple weeks back in, um,
Las Vegas at the Unleash, uh, America
conference where he was speaking to-
Uh, a room full of HR executives, right?
And he was showing the
art of what's possible.
He was showing himself jumping out of an
airplane through, like, a, a Sora or, uh,
or a maybe in Veo 3, uh- Yeah ... video.
He was showing the art of what
was truly possible to open
the eyes of a lot of folks.
He puts a lot of the
research and the data out.
His Substack is, is pretty amazing,
and I point people to that.
One of the things I also, I took a
little bit of a, of a, a victory lap.
You know, last year I used to spend
a lot of time when I train people on
AI, I use the startup, uh, example.
I, I show people, like, "Hey, how you can
create a startup from scratch," right?
Yeah.
And as part of an eight-hour
session that we'll walk through.
And then I saw him post something a
couple months ago where he does the same
thing with his, uh, MBA students, and he
was so impressed by how something that
used to take them weeks and months to
come up with, now they were creating in
four days, and they had, like, 80% of
a working actual prototype of whatever
the business or the idea, right?
And that's to kind of the advancements
over the last several years.
And, um, so kind of with that in
mind, right, we-- you talked about
the kind of the what it means
to be AI as a co-founder, right?
What does that mean?
Like, I wanna jump into kind of,
uh, the more human founders, right?
What are the founders right now that
aren't really deep in the weeds of AI
like you and I, what are they getting
wrong or what are they missing, and
what kind of advice would you give them?
When you think about how you
can leverage these things
First, I don't think they're
doing anything wrong.
I, I don't think, you know, it's-- it
doesn't have to be AI for everything.
So I think, you know, there, there are
people building amazing, uh, brands
or, or amazing products or amazing
services, and they don't feel the need,
and they're operating in their own
way, and I think that's perfectly fine.
I think the reality, though, is, um, some
of these, um, uh, models are going to be
incredibly helpful to do things you don't
really need to waste time doing, right?
And, you know, there, there's a lot of,
um, there's a lot of small tasks, for
example, that you can start to automate.
You start to think
about agentic AI, right?
The power of what agents
can deliver for you.
Um, so the, the question is more,
you know, how fast do you want to go?
Uh, who are you competing with?
I think what, um, access to these tools
is going to deliver is, uh, a new breed
of entrepreneurs, uh, much faster, much
more agile, uh, competing with the very
big boys and competing with big companies
in, um, you know, extremely credible way.
And, you know, we--
you've touched on Medvee.
It's maybe not the best example in terms
of what this business really is about,
and I, I'm not, you know, uh, I don't
know enough about the intricacies of it
to really comment in, in great details.
But, uh, there are some, there
are some questions about the
testimonials that he's providing.
There are some question about
the authenticity of some of the
doctors that are providing, uh,
panel information, et cetera.
Uh, but, you know, maybe,
maybe it's fine too.
The point being, um, it's allowed
to scale, and it's allowed to
scale with effect efficiency.
And I think, um, the question would
be, yeah, of course you can do
everything without AI today, but you're
competing against others that are
leveraging it as sentient startups.
Uh, I was on a panel just a few days
ago with, um, OpenAI and a couple of
startups, and both of the startups
on stage, once they had heard about
the way I talk about it through,
through the book title, described
themselves as sentient startups, right?
And both of them are operating like that.
They're operating with, you know, AI
taking some functions of some of the,
um, uh, things that they ne- they as
founders don't necessarily want to
do, and they don't n- need to delegate
because it's, it's more about just
augmenting their own capabilities.
So I think it's, it's, it's not a question
of you have to, it's a question of, um,
this, this is a technology and a, and
a, and a point in time where, uh, it's
really about amplifying your efforts.
Why not?
Yeah.
I mean, that's such a,
it's such a valid point.
I, I love the way that you articulated
the, you know, you don't necessarily
have to, but- You know, what happens
when your competition does, right?
I was having a very real conversation
yesterday, and I was ha- I was-- it
was very refreshing conversation.
Was having coffee with a, a CEO
who reached out to me in, in
kind of the marketing space.
And, um, she wanted my take on AI and
kind of how we were transforming things,
how we were thinking about business.
And we were sitting there, and I
was talking about how it's gonna be
disruptive for every industry, right?
And, and so the, the analogy
or the anecdote that I was
using, and I was describing even
plumbers in HVAC companies, right?
And I was saying, I said, "Look, if I was
to start a sentient startup, right, in
the plumbing space," I was like, "I would
have AI to do a lot of back office work,
a lot of AI SDR, operation-type things."
I said, "I'm gonna be
30% faster, 30% cheaper.
I'm gonna be able to pay the plumbers
30% more." I said, "I am gonna be
highly disruptive." And I said,
"If you don't believe me," I said,
"there's companies like BlackRock
who've gone all in and are buying
these, uh, plumbing and HVAC companies
and, like, these holding companies."
And it was so funny because when
we, we got up, the, the two guys
sitting next to us in suits, they
said, "Hey, if you start that AI
plumbing company, we want in because
we actually both work at BlackRock."
And I was just-- I had no idea.
I was just at a coffee shop.
And, uh- Yeah ... but they were like,
"What you were saying was fascinating,"
but they also acknowledged, like, "Man,
we don't know enough about this stuff."
And they're-- I'm not saying the
people at BlackRock, but I'm saying
not every single person understands
what's going on right now.
But,
but, you know, to your point, I mean,
y-y-even imagine you're, you're a
s- you're a solo plumber, right?
You, y-you, you can work for eight to
10 hours a day, and it's e-exhausting,
back-breaking work already, right?
When you're working, when you're fixing
somebody's sink or whatever you're doing,
you can't pick up the phone, right?
So maybe you have an
answering machine, right?
And that maybe means that you lose
some, some business because the
answering machine, people don't want
to leave a message, or it doesn't
work well, or whatever happens, right?
Instead, you just build an
agent that is basically your
always-on receptionist, right?
That agent, in real human voice,
in, in, in real voice, is going
to, uh, take the messages, start
building a quote right away.
By the time you finish your job,
you already have three updates
on your phone from your agent
saying, "This person has called.
This is what they need.
Uh, this is, I think, the, uh,
indicative quote we can give them.
If you validate it, I can send
them a quote right away." Your
task now is you finish a job, you
want to get a bit of, uh, a break.
All you have to say is, "Yes,
proceed," and the quote is gone.
That alone has improved your
quality of life drastically, right?
And the, the skills to put that
together are extremely, um Uh,
achievable, reachable, uh, for, I
would say, uh, an, an average level
of understanding such as mine, right?
So, so I think this is kind of where--
what I mean is not everything is
about putting, you know, um, a man
on the other side of the moon, right?
Some of it is going to be helping, uh,
the baker, the local plumber, uh, helping
small, uh, small businesses, helping,
um, startups or individuals build their
dreams because they have an idea, and
now they have the capability to really,
uh, amplify, demultiply their efforts,
thanks to a number of tools that are
now, uh, completely within reach, right?
And of course, it's a big leveler.
Uh, how do we make sure that we
provide better education in places
where there is not enough education?
How do we make sure that, uh, people
have access to better quality of
knowledge, pronunciation, learning
languages, et cetera, et cetera?
So there's a lot of very positive things.
The problem, of course, is you've got
the other side of it, which is excess,
you know, the tech bros and a number
of things that are very concerning
and that maybe require more regulation
or at, at least to set a, a better
quality of dialogue within society.
So these are the two balancing acts.
But I think, you know, for, for
the solo plumber, there's a really,
a, a really good model there,
not even working for BlackRock.
Fair enough.
I, I started, um, Mark Bavosoto, a
business partner of mine, and I started
RDU Labs, um, which is a public benefit,
uh, corporation with this whole purpose,
and what we are trying to do you know,
get across is that to your point, there's
gonna be a have and have-nots, and the
person who is doing the maintenance
and upkeep in my home deserves the same
level of access as the big company.
So we're doing this to make sure
that there's a, a community aspect,
that we make sure there's a path.
Because I'm highly concerned about
broad scale AI literacy, right?
I'm speaking next week at a university
where I know there's a subsection of
the professors that don't want the
students to be using these tools.
And it's like, I don't know about that.
You're gonna make them unemployable.
It's like you need to understand
that AI is embedded in every single
piece of technology that we will use
for now into the foreseeable future
For sure.
But at the same time, one of the questions
I have for you, what I love talking
to you about both in this conversation
but even when we were off camera before
having a conversation, is just some
of the ethics and some of the kind
of the decision-making around this.
Are there things that you would
describe that, you know, are decisions
that maybe AI should never make or it
should make less of these decisions?
Like, how are you helping people
kind of navigate that, and what are
your personal perspectives on that?
You know, I, I wrote a whole chapter
called Navigating the Ethical Maze in,
in the book and, and because for me,
you can't talk about AI without thinking
about ethics and integrity, right?
Um, I think we also have to
separate the AGI conversation from
the kind of agentic conversation.
So the, the AGI conversation
is a totally different topic.
Um, this is, um, technology that, uh, is
going to be almost immediately vaulted,
that is going to be extremely powerful,
yet very dangerous and needs to be
controlled within, uh, a, a very strong,
um, official legislative body, right?
So this is one thing that we put aside.
Eric Schmidt speaks about the fact
that the moment AGI comes, it goes
straight into a, a military bunker
somewhere in a mountain, right?
And I think that's true, and I think
that's really where, um, Congress
or National Assembly or whatever the
government structure is in the different
countries we, we know, uh, need to
understand that they are going to
have to legislate on the use and the
access to these kind of technologies.
So if we put that aside, agentic
AI, everyday use AI, right?
Um, there are still some e-ethics and
integrity, uh, aspects to consider.
Is, uh, you know, we've, we've,
we've heard about this example.
Is it fine, for example, to have fake
testimonials because you can easily
create, um, synthetic personas?
No, it's not, right?
It's still cheating, and I think
that's kind of your decision.
In my opinion, ethics is going to
be a huge competitive advantage when
it comes to the sentient startup.
Um, ethics is going to be
how you really differentiate
yourself for the long run, right?
Uh, the companies that have lasted
through histories, they've lasted in
most cases, uh, because they were built
on some strong founding principles, some
strong values, and that's no different.
It's not because you're building a
three, a three-person startup or a
three-person sentient startup with 25
agents that you have to kind of dismiss
the requirement to think about this
with integrity and with ethics, right?
And I think there's a number of
choices that have to be made around
Today we see, for example, a lot
of companies, um, firing people on
the basis that AI and productivity,
um, have delivered more value.
We know this is not true.
There is an, a Harvard Business
Review, uh, study that demonstrates
that in all instances, the reason for
firing has nothing to do with that.
It's to do with lack of strategy,
it's to do with over-hiring, and it's
just to do with maybe just justifying
huge investment in AI and having to
deliver some sort of outcome, right?
And I think that's the reality,
and these are, uh, noted.
Uh, people know that, and
people understand that.
These are not secrets, and I
think this is going to have a huge
detrimental effect to some of those,
um, companies in the long run, right?
So that's really your, your
decision as a business leader.
Ethics and integrity isn't different
because you're managing agents
or you're managing people or
you're managing yourself, right?
These are the same things
you have to play with.
Yeah, I mean, to that point, there's
a lot to unpack there for sure.
I, I've been on stage several times in
the last couple months having this very
conversation, whether I was in Bogota,
Colombia, speaking on this, uh, last
month I was speaking at a, at a local
big, uh, AI conference called All Things
AI, and to-- in an executive track, and
I was calling out the realities, right?
Whether it was the over-hiring in
2021 to 2023 that are now kind of
being reset, whether it's the reality
that some of these agentic, um, uh,
capabilities and workflows will supersede
much of the traditional SaaS kind of
workflow productivity tool, right?
I always tell folks, I was
like, "AI does not care about
your process or your org chart.
It only cares about outcomes," right?
And so, and so whether it's Block or,
um, uh, Atlassian, all, all of these
companies, uh, what I will say is
that there's a reality that if a cor-
company like Block or Atlassian makes
these types of cuts, whatever the
actual rationale is, and the very next
day their stock goes up 15% to 20%-
For sure
more and more are going to do this, right?
Whether we like it or not.
And what I always try to do is
I, uh, people say that I say
the quiet part out loud, right?
And basically what I'm trying to make
sure people understand is the rules
of the game that are being, being
played, and so that you can help.
Uh, I like that navigating
the ethical maze.
I need to think about, you
know, how people are navigating
that from a business context.
That's what I like.
That's what I loved also
about having our conversation.
Let me ask you something a
little bit, um, different.
Like, we've all had our own aha moments,
right, that have gotten us into AI.
But then outside of the aha moments, there
are these moments where it's like, "Hey,
man, this changes everything," right?
What is-- Has there been a moment
in the last six months for you that
you're like, "Wow, I know I'm alread-
already in this, but this thing
here changes everything for me"?
Um, yeah, I mean, there, there, absolutely
there, there are two distinct moment.
One is, um, very shallow, which is
holding the book in the hands, right?
It's like it's real.
There-- That's-- It's here.
So that's a very small, fleeting moment.
The one that I think, uh, sticks, um,
most is, um, uh, I'm coming back to this,
uh, this AI panelist I built, is really
having a conversation with a machine.
Um, the model is called Athena.
Athena because of the word that I
have to use to kind of trigger it.
It's, it's really-- There's a lot
of complexities around that in a
noisy space, so I had to pick up
a, a name that would be easy and
kind of, uh, unique in the context.
But what to me was absolutely startling
is, um, you know, first test of the
system, um, having, again, built this
from scratch by myself and having a whole
conversation about the book, about with
somebody or something in this case, with
extremely strong opinions, uh, with a very
good perspective because it has ingested
a number of extremely kind of detailed
studies and papers and perspectives and
articles and contradictory points of view.
And you realize, wow, this is, this
is really quite amazing, right?
And I think that to me is, uh, is,
is one of those moments where you
really think, uh, you know, this is
not, um-- This is transformational.
Uh, this is, uh, really a moment where,
um, it's only going to get more complex
and it's going to get more exciting
and it's going to get more challenging.
But I definitely want to
be part of that, right?
That's the moment.
That's awesome.
I, uh, I had a few different moments
over the last six months myself that
are, are very similar in some ways.
One was when I first saw the,
um, kind of the, the image of
my book that was coming out.
I was telling my chairman, I played
a little bit of college sports.
I said, "Man, this is the same feeling I
had when I first picked up my jersey and
saw my name on the back of it," right?
And, uh, but on a-- from a more deeper,
like, kind of technical level, there was
two other moments, is when my chairman,
who's never written a line of code in his
life, started sending me apps that he was
building using Lovable and Claude Code.
Yeah.
And, uh, and then to the point where I
had to tell him recently, I said, "You
know that you're burning most of our
credits at the company level," right?
'Cause- He's a, he's a
complier ... he's crankity, right?
But then the other one is, um, and I want
your take on this, is the, the, the Peter
Steinberger moment of OpenClaw, right?
When, um, I've still not personally
actually Uh, leverage OpenClaw.
I'm looking at some of the other
kind of versions, if you will, of
that a little bit more controlled.
But once I saw that and I said, "Oh,
the, the cat's out of the bag now,"
or, "The toothpaste is out of the tube.
You can't put it back." Right?
The big foundation model
companies, Anthropic, OpenAI,
they knew that this was capable.
They were trying like crazy
to not let it happen too soon.
Now it's out there, and everywhere
that I go, OpenClaw, you know,
people have been OpenClaw pilled.
And, uh, even Jensen, who I, I want
to get into that conversation too w-
about NVIDIA, said that every company...
They have Nemo Claw now, right?
Nemo Claw, yeah.
He said every single company needs
to have an OpenClaw strategy.
So long way of getting to the point
of what's your take on OpenClaw,
that kind of strategy, and then
your relationship with NVIDIA?
Yeah, so I mean, I think, uh, f- first,
the, the, the OpenClaw moment is, um,
incredible because I think a few month
back I was getting a bit concerned
that, uh, we would be maybe entering
some sort of an AI winter again, and
that there was, you know, waning public
opinion and shifting public opinion.
And then Steinberger comes out with
OpenClaw, um, 100,000, uh, you know,
gold star on GitHub within, within
a week or something like that.
Absolutely crazy.
Um, and it becomes this kind
of, uh, I would say social
phenomenon in a very microcosm.
So I think the first thing we
have to say is This is super
inner circle stuff, right?
This is not, um... But
it's starting to go more.
OpenClaude was on the front page
of the BBC News just two days ago.
Um, and I think that's kind of starting
to give you an indication that the
cat is out of the bag in that respect,
and it's really moved past that inner
circle and is starting to become
something a lot more, a, a lot different.
Um, what is really interesting
about it is it speaks to the fantasy
that we all have of Jarvis, right?
The idea of that sentient
entity in our homes.
I think at the heart of it is, you know,
the Star Trek transponder, Jarvis, a
number of technologies where we talk to a
machine as we talk to a person, and that
machine does things for us without having
to be instructed or through voice, right?
And I think that OpenClaude in particular,
because it has all of those, uh,
connectors, uh, to Telegram, to WhatsApp,
et cetera, that are so easy to set
up, has really caught the imagination.
Um, now the reality with OpenClaude
is there are some really s-
serious security flaws in it.
Now, it's perfectly okay because,
again, Steinberger did not build
that as a, a product to resell.
He built it as a hobby.
He's, he's somebody that built a
company many years ago, sold it, and
started to produce a number of ideas.
I think he did 40 or 50 projects that
all failed before that one, right?
So this is, again, not something
that has happened overnight.
Like most of us, these are not
overnight discoveries, right?
This topic is not an overnight discovery,
and I think this is really important is
some of us have been talking about this or
learning about this for more than 10 years
now, or, or in some cases 20 or more.
So Steinberger comes to this
with a tool that he knows is not
perfect, is open source, uh, is
fully accessible, and of course,
suddenly it becomes this phenomenon.
Uh, in China, uh, Tencent and others have
organized public events where people from
seven to 77 have turned up to learn about
how to install and set up OpenClaude.
All right?
And I think that really speaks
to this thirst for learning, this
kind of interest in the topic.
People want to understand how this work.
But obviously, the downside
to that is there's not enough
education on the challenges.
Um, and I was talking to someone
recently who was very proudly telling
me they had set up an OpenClaude,
only to kind of shut it down
because it was kind of misbehaving.
And when I said to that person,
"So how did you harden it
against prompt injection?"
Uh, their response to me was, "What
is a prompt injection?" And I think
this is kind of a really big, uh,
uh, issue because you can't jump into
these things without understanding
some of the way they work.
I, I set up, um- uh, OpenClau
on a, on a VPS, but just to kind
of understand the setup process.
But I don't understand enough
about server-side security, right?
And so I didn't c- I, you know, I
disconnected it after having tested the,
the whole routine of setting up because I
wanted to understand how they're set up.
I'm now going to set it up on a
dedicated machine on, um, on, um, uh,
a Jetson Orin Nano, uh, super, which
is a really small, you know, very kind
of dedicated, uh, machine to try to
understand how in a self-contained
environment it starts to operate.
What can I do with it?
What can, what kind of permission,
uh, I can, uh, grant it, et cetera.
But I think you've got to kind
of adapt those tools to the s- to
the level of your skills, right?
Uh, and then you've got,
you know, other examples.
You have people like Nat, uh,
Nat, uh, Eliason, who have set up
a whole business partner, right?
So they have an OpenClau, uh,
called Felix, and it's basically
running a business now, right?
It's writing books and selling PDFs
and all this stuff, and I think that's
really the, the fantastic aspect of it.
You can have a lot of different
people experiencing the technology
based on their own capabilities.
That's got to be a really positive thing.
Yeah, and that's why I would say
that it changed the game, uh, for me.
I mean, as someone who's been in
technology and, and has been on the tech
side, uh, earlier in my career, the moment
it came out and I had buddies come up
to me that weren't as deeply technical,
they were semi-technical, and they
were like, "Yeah, I gave it root access
to this and gave it access to that."
I said, "Oh, no, no, no." I was like,
"You have no idea what this thing
is gonna do." And one of my buddies,
um, he, he, he texted me, he was
so excited about it and, uh, and he
says... Well, first he was excited b-
when it was called Claude Bot, right?
Yeah.
And then they got in
trouble within 72 hours.
Anthropic came out- Yeah
and said, "Hey, you need to change the
name." Then it went to Molt Bot, then it
went to Open Claw, which became like the
most public interview ever for him to
basically sell his technology and go work
at OpenAI, which I thought was awesome.
Uh, but then my buddy
texts me a few days later.
He said, "Hey, man, this thing
now has access to call me,
and it won't stop calling me.
It won't, you know, and it, it keeps
calling me, and then it's spending money."
He's like, "You know, I woke up and I
had like a $200 bill." I was like-- I
mean, I said, "I was trying to warn you.
Like, I don't-" Yeah.
But which, which is wild to me, Arnaud,
is that on one side of the fence, we
have people that are using AI as a
glorified, uh, Google search engine
True.
And then you have people on the
other side of the spectrum giving
it access to, to do anything, you
know, basically rob itself blind.
But the, the challenge is the same
individual has the same access and
quick capability to set up both.
But, but I think this is where, you
know, to back to your earlier point,
this is where Jensen is completely right.
I mean, you need to have, as a business,
you need to think about whether you
call it open CLO, Nemo CLO, or agentic
strategy, it's all the same in, in effect.
But I think you need to really have
your agentic strategy, and if today
you're not capable to articulate the
why and the how of that strategy,
it's really going to be, uh, a sign
that whatever you're implementing
cannot really sustain itself, right?
Because it's going to be essential,
uh, in a context where you can deploy
agents increasingly, you know, in
six month, in 12 month, it's going
to be extremely safe to do so.
At the moment, it's still dangerous.
There are still layers that, you
know, we're not quite sure what
happens there, or there's a lot
of work to do to secure them.
I think as we go forward, we're
going to see, uh, solutions
and implementation models which
make it really, really secure.
And when you start to do that, then it
becomes something we do every day, right?
Agentic commerce is going
to take over, right?
It's going to be very interesting.
Um, it's going to be about, um,
rethinking how we engage with certain,
uh, software or certain pieces of,
um, of technology, uh, which today we
need to spend time engaging with, and
maybe we don't need to do that anymore.
And to me, it's all about that,
uh, amplification phase, which
we're hopefully entering rather
than just a denigration phase.
Um, and, and as such, I
think, um, he's right.
We-- You know, a business needs
to have, uh, an open CLO or
at least an agentic strategy.
Yeah.
And then that's a, a great clarification
and great context, 'cause one of
the things I say a lot to that
point, you know, last year I had...
I talked to several, uh, highly regulated
industries across healthcare and finance,
and they would say, "Oh, we're not gonna
use AI, you know, for the foreseeable
future." I was like-- I said, "Every tool
will have, at a minimum, AI assistant
and copilot in." I said, "The idea that
you're not going to use AI," I said,
"What are you gonna go off the grid?"
Right?
And now you go from 2025, where
everything had an AI copilot, to now
in 2026, almost all of these tools will
have their agentic strategy or open CLO
strategy, where they'll be-- the product
itself will be more agentic in nature.
And one of the conversations I was
having in the last 24 hours, I said,
"What happens when the tools that you
use to run your business flip the switch
and say that you can no longer use the
old workflow, drag and drop, click?
You have to now talk to the machine
and use the agentic way of working." I
said, "You don't have a choice anymore."
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
And that's the thing
that is concerning to me.
Yeah, and completely.
And, and also, you know, the models
that are coming out are becoming
Um, so sophisticated that they're
also uncovering things that we've
been doing wrong for a long time.
I mean, a, a case in point is what has
happened today, uh, with the release,
or not the release, but the, the paper
on, uh, Mythos from, um, uh, Anthropic-
Right ... which is basically is, is
seemingly geared towards cybersecurity,
and in running a number of, uh, tests
has uncovered vulnerabilities in some
cases that are 27 year old, right?
So they found a, a, a major flaw
in OpenBSD, uh, from a, a piece of
software that was created 27 years ago.
So this is a piece of software that has
gone through multiple iteration, multiple
checks, multiple testing, and still had
within itself, uh, this flaw, right?
And, and this is what this,
uh, this model has uncovered.
And I think this is a, a really
kind of wake-up call because what
it suggests is, you know, some of
the tools we're using may not be as
safe as we think they are, right?
Some of the tools that we've been using
for a long time may require to be,
um, investigated through, uh, what,
um, artificial intelligence can do.
And, and so I think we really need
to understand this a lot better,
uh, and, and certainly, uh, leverage
those solutions in a more effective
way, uh, for that purpose, for sure.
You hit the, the, the nail on the head.
I was thinking about this a lot.
I've been thinking about it
even back since December.
I listened to a podcast
talking about the, the...
It was the head of, uh, I guess
at the point, at the point in time
for OpenAI, he became the new head
of, of security and vulnerability.
I can't remember the guy's name.
But he talked about finding how, uh,
the Codex model found, in OpenAI,
found a vulnerability, to your
point, that was 20-something years
old that people thought, didn't even
realize existed, and it found it,
and they were like, "Oh, boy," right?
And now you see the, the leak or the, um,
the mistake of someone in the, uh, kind
of the CMS group or the marketing group
inside of Anthropic with Mythos gets
leaked out, which the i- the irony of it
is the whole point of My- Mythos was about
security vulnerabilities, and then this
get leaked, but it was a human error that
effectively leaked the, the whole paper.
But I think they found something like
millions of vulnerabilities, right?
Yeah,
for sure.
And like, and to your point, and
so we're gonna learn a lot more.
Um, just kind of as we start to kind
of wind down here a little bit, there's
a couple things that I wanna do.
One, I wanna make sure I give you
space to talk more about, uh, how
do you think the book is going to
impact, uh, future founders, right?
But before we do that, we like to do
one little game we call Last Chat.
Okay.
So, uh, it's a little, a little surprise
segment, but we ask you whatever...
I, I never actually ask you this.
I actually don't ask
this question anymore.
Um, I used to ask what AI tools
people were using, but there are so
many tools and I try to tell people
focus on categories, not tools.
Like, what are the things you're trying
to accomplish, not the individual tool.
But I'm gonna break my own rule.
What is your, like, daily- driver
from a, from an AI tool perspective?
Oh, uh, for, for me I'm, I'm, I've
switched completely to using, uh, Claude.
Um, so I, I think that has, that is
delivering, uh, the best in terms of the,
the type of things that I use it for.
Um, they're also... I'm, I'm starting to
investigate the much smaller models, uh,
such as the, the, the Gemma 4 that just
came out over the weekend, uh, or Qwen 3B.
Uh, and I'm interested in those
small models because as part of
the implementation I want to build
on the, on the Jensen, um, uh,
or in Nano, uh, I want to build a
completely self-contained, uh, system.
So I want to be able to have on
that a small enough, a 4B model,
uh, that can run directly and, and
try to see what it delivers, right?
So I'm just really curious about
these kind of edge, uh, edge models,
but on a really small form factor.
That's what interests me at the moment.
So that's kind of what
I'm, what I'm looking into.
Uh, but from a, on a day-to-day
basis, um, I, I use Claude.
I obviously use also things like,
um, Google NanoBanana, uh, for
some visualization sometimes.
Um, but, um, uh, I would say the,
the really Claude has been, uh,
I think extremely impressive.
Um, obviously they're throttling usage.
There's a number of things there
that are challenging, you know.
Um, but For the purpose I, I have
of it, it's, uh, it's certainly
doing its job, at least what I
understand of, of the outcome.
Yeah, I mean, you have the, the
French accent, so right, calling it
Claude or, or- Claude ... or Claude.
Yes.
Yeah.
So when I see people exit, I was like,
"That's always cool." And, and I, I
use Claude quite a bit more now than
I used to for a variety of different
reasons, and I still use ChatGPT, uh,
significantly, but I use all the tools.
'Cause one, 'cause I'm
training people, right?
Yeah.
So I have to use-- Like I even
have to use Copilot sometimes.
I say have to 'cause I have
my own feelings around that.
Yeah.
Mi- Mistral also, I'm, I'm kind
of getting curious a- about it.
So a- again, for me it's about curiosity.
I mean, you use a tool,
yes, because it's a bit of a
default, but I have all of them.
You know, I, I use DeepSeek,
I use OpenAI, I use Mistral, I
use Copilot, uh, obviously, uh,
the, the Google Suite a lot.
So, so for me it's really about
kind of what's, what's the go-to and
then the curiosity you have around
not every model behaves the same.
And I think that's also something
that, you know, is, is incredible,
is you have so many models delivering
so many, uh, I would say niche
expertise or a specific, uh, type.
There are some incredible work
at the moment coming out on,
um, uh, text-to-voice, uh,
or direct-to-voice, right?
So there are some really
interesting things coming out.
Um, there are a couple of topics
that are really big interest to me.
Anything to do with voice
is a huge interest for me.
Anything to do with small edge model is
a huge interest, so that's kind of what
I'm, what I'm trying to learn about.
So that's completely, um,
you know, model agnostic.
It's more about what's out there
and what I can get my hands on.
Yeah, I love the, uh, the edge devices.
I love the idea of, of air gapping
something that you can possibly
put into your pocket or just-
Yeah ... kind of walk around with.
But when we talk about last chat, now
I have to ask you, what is the last
thing that you chatted with Claude
or Claude, uh, that you can share?
And I'm gonna share what
I last chatted about.
A friend of mine is kind of building
a business and was asking me to
test a number of, uh, hypotheses.
So I, I, I was helping him do that
through a couple of, um, um, uh,
exchanges that took place, and we were
testing a, a voice, uh, interaction
and a voice transcript, and that's
what I, I used it for, uh, to help
this, uh, this friend of mine, uh,
trying to kind of test what he's doing.
That's the last thing I did.
Nice.
I had, um, my last chat, I was going
back and looking, uh, this morning,
and it was someone was reaching
out, um, on the HR side, and they're
trying to transform a, a fairly large
organization, uh, to be upskilled in AI.
And they had a big provider that works
with, uh, our, our federal government here
that is cutting edge, doing everything,
you know, mentioning OpenClaw and first
principles and air gap and all these,
this terminology, and they were like,
"Help me unpack and understand this."
So I was like, "All right, I can better
define it and put it in my own words,"
but then I also want to say, "If I had
a high school education, right, what--
how would you convey this message?" So
I was trying to just put it in terms
that made more sense- Yep ... for them
and for their business context of a
lot of this kind of, uh, you know...
We're all, you know, there's a lot
of people that are in this bubble,
like we've, we've talked about,
like, and it's a very small bubble.
Um, and so I use it a lot of times to
convey a message or to kind of, um, make
the complex more simple for folks, right?
Uh, but I, I al- you know, I
build a lot of things with it.
But my last actual chat, and even the
premise of the question assumes AI
basic is what I, I would tell people.
I'd say, "Your AI basic is
showing," because I, I don't
AI search, I AI instruct.
I have it build things,
do things, agentic flow.
So with the last few minutes here, um,
what do you want to tell our audience
about your book, about yourself?
What are you passionate about?
How do they get the book?
Yeah, I mean, I think I, I hope
I've conveyed, uh, enough what
I'm passionate about on this
topic and what I'm interested by.
Um, the book is coming out on April 28th.
Um, I think at the moment it's on
pre-order in Asia and Australia, so I
think it will come to Amazon, you know,
um, in the US and the UK, uh, in May.
Um, I think for me, really, I'm,
you know, I'm not expecting to,
um, uh, sell millions of copies.
What I'm expecting is that this
is a great way to open really
interesting conversations.
So, uh, if you're interested in having
these conversations, you can find me on
LinkedIn, uh, and I'm always interested
to engage on these topics and, um, if that
can help, uh, someone, if it can inspire
someone because they realize that they
themselves can become, uh, a sentient
startup founder, they themself can
build a business that they never thought
would be possible before, then I think
it's mission accomplished, uh, to me.
That's awesome, and I will be using that
term, the sentient, uh, startup, right?
I do
think- You can use it.
I, I relinquish the copyright for this
express purposes to your benefit only.
I appreciate that.
And, and I would like to say to,
you know, to the audience, right, if
you're still thinking about AI solely
as a tool You are behind, right?
There's a lot more that you can create.
And I like, you know, similar to Arnaud,
like I like to focus on really elevating
the quality of work, which then will
elevate your quality of life, right?
If you can do more things that you're
passionate about that are more fun
to you, that are more personal, that
give you more time back to your with
your family, your friends or the
things that you deeply care about.
I think that's what matters in business.
So I appreciate the time, friend.
Thank you for making the time
all the way from Singapore.
Best wishes on the book and hope you
sell a lot more than a thousand copies.
Thank
you so much.
Thank you.
See you, Greg.
Thanks for joining us
on AI Voice or Victim.
If you want to stay competitive
in the age of AI, start now.
Take one insight from today's episode and
put it into practice in the next 24 hours.
Make sure to follow us, share
your thoughts, and subscribe
for more actionable AI insights.
See you next time.