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The Interface Podcast Crew chats with Marcus Manning, Chief Technology Officer at Smart Financial Credit Union.
Interface is a podcast where we connect technology and culture through conversation. Interface is brought to you by EMPOWER at PROS. EMPOWER is dedicated to attracting, developing and retaining Black talent at PROS. PROS helps people and companies outperform by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.
Jennifer Plummer: Welcome to interface
a podcast where we connect technology
and culture through conversation.
Interface is brought to you by
empower at pros, empower is dedicated
to attracting, developing, and
retaining black talent at pros.
Pros helps people and companies
outperform by enabling smarter
selling in the digital economy.
I'm your host, Jennifer Plumer.
I'm here today with Sierra Barnes.
Hey and Matthew couldn't be with us today.
Um, but the three of us are
the interface podcast group.
And today our guest is Marcus
Manning, Chief Technology Officer
at Smart Financial Credit Union.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
Marcus Manning: Thanks for having me.
Jennifer Plummer: All right.
So, uh, we like to start
out with basically, you
know, your, your life story.
Could you share with us how
you got into technology?
Was it something you were into
as a little kid or you kind
of grew into it later in life?
Uh, you know, please share your story.
Marcus Manning: Sure.
So it started out, my dad was a
computer operator for NASA for 30
years and he brought us to his job
one day and we went to a vault.
I'm like, well, what is this dad?
He's like, well, I can't let you go in
there because that's mission control.
But I can tell you that this
is where I work every day.
I said, okay, well, what do you do?
He said, well, I program
the space shuttle.
I'm like, wow my dad has a
really, really, really cool job.
So I decided, you know, since he won't
let me in this ball and let me see me
being the curious person that I am,
I'll just learn how computers work.
So started putting my first
computer together in the garage.
Jennifer Plummer: How old
were you at that point?
Marcus Manning: That was
around, I'd say that was 16.
Yeah.
So, and I want, that was the old 2
86 models and I won't date myself,
but yeah, so I made a buddy of my,
in the garage kind of tinkering and,
uh, we, we built our first computer.
So that was something that
was really interesting to me.
So went to college, studied computer
science, got a degree in computer science.
Um, I can tell you that was
probably one of the toughest things
that I've accomplished, cuz I
see, okay computer science that
really doesn't go together to me.
But once I got in and once I
started, it was like, okay, this is
something that's, it's difficult,
it's a challenge.
But it's something that I
was really intrigued with.
So got a bachelor's degree in computer
science, uh, with a math minor.
And then I started my career
out doing contract work.
So I did a little bit of coding.
I won't tell you what version,
but visual, basic and C and,
uh, some C plus plus with AT&T.
And then I quickly realized
that, you know, Hey, I need
some, some people interaction.
I mean, it's good to write code.
You know, it, it's good to, you
know, produce these nice products,
but the people interaction is
really what I was looking for.
You know, how do I marry the
technology and the computer science
background with the interaction
and the people skills that I have.
So I decided to go down
the service delivery route.
So I went into the network administration,
Microsoft certified engineering role.
So I was network engineer
for about three years.
And then one of my mentors
said, you know, Hey, are you
interested in leadership position?
Now, mind you you know, not necessarily
fresh outta college, but you know,
three years or so outta college.
And I was part of a fraternity in
college, you know, shout out to the bros.
So I was the president of
the organization in college.
So I was like, okay, well, yeah,
I do have some leadership roles,
you know, high school, student
council, things of that sort.
So, um, but managing a team of 35
with three years of experience, it
was again a challenge, but it was one
of those things that I was up for.
So that's really how I got
into a leadership role.
Um, and it just so happened to
be another African American.
He gave me an opportunity and when he
gave me that opportunity to lead the team,
That's really where my journey started
as far as a leader in the IT industry.
Jennifer Plummer: Awesome.
Awesome.
So describe for our listeners, you know,
what does a chief technology officer do?
I know perfectly what it's, what
the CTO does, but for our listener,
please explain kind of like maybe not
day to day or, you know, in general,
what are your responsibilities?
Marcus Manning: Sure.
Yeah.
And, and, and some days, I mean, depending
on what fires I have to put out, I
don't even know what that looks like.
so, but as far as my responsibilities
on paper, I'm responsible for
the innovation roadmap for the
smart financial credit union.
I'm also responsible for the IT
operations side of the house,
uh, for smart financial as well.
So keeping the lights on infrastructure,
data centers, digital experience,
mobile experience, as well as the
day to day operations of keeping
the lights on, as I mentioned.
Also responsible for the digital roadmap.
So as we all know, you know, you, you,
you hear digital transformation, you
hear crypto, you hear Bitcoin, you
hear blockchain, all the nice, cool
technologies that's out there where
the organization is looking at me.
It's like, okay, Marcus, what is that?
Do we need it?
Do we need to buy it?
Is it gonna work for us?
So that's, that's part of
my responsibility as well.
And then on a DevOps perspective.
So we don't have a necessarily, um, a
development shop, but I am responsible
for the hiring of coders when needed,
and then also finding partners
that are needed in that space as.
Jennifer Plummer: It's it's funny.
You talk about being in the
technology industry, but like
almost every business, right.
Has their digital side and
someone needs to be, you know,
driving the goals of that as well.
You know, like obviously like IBM
or Facebook is like, oh, this is a
technology come cause our product
is technology for a bank, um, right.
You know, I'm, I'm assuming that's
a large part of your interaction
with your customers at this point
is through mobile or your website
or, you know, whatever these days.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and we're at a point now
where we really want to, uh, not
necessarily be on the bleeding
edge, but at least cutting edge.
Right.
Because you know, it's all about
the member and if the member is not
happy, there are so many different
other opportunities out there.
You they'll go across the street,
they'll go to wallet or they'll
go to Z, they'll go to SoFi.
Like why do we even need a
financial institution anymore?
There are other technologies
that are out there for me.
So we need to make sure that we're
making that member base happy and be
sure that we're providing the tools
that they need in order for their member
experience to be somewhat pleasant,
and rapid as well.
So, you know, you don't wanna spend
two hours, you know, old school at a
teller line when you can just really
go online five minutes and off you go.
So yeah.
Yeah.
That digital experience and that
innovation piece is extremely
important.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
These days I don't even wanna
go to, to the drive through ATM.
I'm like, this is takes too long.
Like why can't I just,
Marcus Manning: yeah.
Some people's like, don't, don't
wanna to a teller just wanna go
in and see how much money I have.
See if I can go buy the
nice bag that I saw.
Jennifer Plummer: ..So you mention, I
think this is a good point I wanna dive
into is cuz I think the perception might
be that people in technology don't really
have people skills, but you actually,
you took a pivot, you were like, I, I
wanna take advantage of my people skills.
Is there more you can share about
how your previous experiences you're
using today in the role you're in?
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
And that was something that, again,
I, I, I realize early on is that,
you know, I do have strong people
skills and in order for technology to
be of value to any organization, it
has to be appropriately articulated.
I mean, if I talk about the bits and the
bites and infrastructure as a service and
software, as a service, you know, to the
average Joe, you know, to the marketing
executive, even to the CEO like Marcus,
I have no idea what you're talking about,
but if you, if you have the ability to
articulate that in business terms and
help the business really connect the dots.
Then that's when you have that aha moment.
Right.
So I really figured out that,
okay, if I can take, you know,
the bits and bites that I know and
translate it and articulate that
to business outcomes, that's really
adding value to any organization.
I mean, it could be the
grocery store in Kroger's.
If you don't know how to work, the
KIOSK, you can't buy your groceries.
Right.
Well, I can go behind there
and say, you know, Hey, do
control out, delete control C.
And the cashier's gonna look at, like
mark says, I have no idea what you're
talking well, if you go in, if you
do the barcode and you scan this
and then your payment's gonna come
up, that makes more sense to them.
So once I got to that point, I found that
there was a niche because I've talked to
people that on somewhat the cusp of being
very, very, very brilliant, but they
can't hold the too many conversation.
And then I've talked to some people
that were used car salesman that know
absolutely nothing about technology.
So like, okay, there's, there's a niche.
Yeah.
That I think I could feel.
And that's really where I
kind of, uh, hit my stride.
If you will, how do you play
that middle man to where you can
understand the technology and even
deliver on the technology, but you
have the ability to articulate and
connect the dots and really add that
business value and articulate that.
So that's, that's really where I got
the joy out of working with technology.
Jennifer Plummer: Awesome.
Siara Barnes: I had a quick question.
I, I wanna go back a little bit
to your college experience and you
said you majored in in computer
science and minor than math.
Did you find that there were other
people of color, specifically black
people that you went to school with?
What, what was that experience like?
Were you like the only one
or the one of two or three?
Marcus Manning: yes.
So I would say initially I was the
only one and, you know, I, I, I don't
wanna stereotype, but as you guys can
imagine all colors and cultures outside
of African Americans, I experienced,
and I, I, I think there, well, I know
there's a reason for that, but to
answer your question, no, I was, I was
the only one in a lot of my courses.
And as a matter of fact, it's, it's
interesting because the African
American that I did see in my classes,
it was probably my junior year.
His name is James Rogers.
And if he hears this, he's gonna laugh.
He's like, mark, you still remember that?
And that's been several many years ago.
I was like, yes, I'm
not the only one here.
There is somebody else that's
going to this journey with me.
So, no, I, I did not see very American.
I don't even know a lot of African
Americans that have a computer
science degree with a math minor
and has continued along that path.
And I know some people that took
computer science classes and like, okay,
you know, Marcus, that's not for me.
Or they did get a, you know,
network administration certificate
or things of that sort.
So I am seeing that there has been
progress made, but when I went
through college, no, I, I was the
only one in the majority of my classes
throughout my, my entire stay there.
Jennifer Plummer: Did you have a support
system being that way that, that, you
know, some group that you leaned on?
So when you were kind of feeling
like the only, or that, that kind of
every now and then you need a boost.
I mean, but you know, did you have
someone you could reach out to for.
Marcus Manning: And actually it was,
it was, it was my dad at the time, you
know, he, he was still alive and I,
you know, I even went to talk to the
professor, but the professor couldn't
necessarily relate to where I was coming
from and what I was going through.
And I, I could give you and
it's, it's like it was yesterday.
So again, I'm, I'm dating myself,
but I used to have to go to the
computer lab because I, I didn't
have a computer back in those days.
You know, some, some of the other
students did and a lot of the students
that were in my classes, they were
already working in the Austin area.
Some worked for Motorola,
others worked for Dell.
So they would take classes because
their company sent them back.
Well, I'm the traditional 18 year
old college student, you know, wonder
where my next meal's gonna come from.
No, I don't have a computer.
So there, there were times when I
actually had to go to the computer
lab at two and three in the morning
just to go and get my outputs.
And a lot of my peers that I was
socially active with didn't really
understand that I was like, man,
it's three o'clock in the morning and
you have to go to the computer lab.
I'm like, yeah, well, this
output is due on Monday morning.
I don't have a computer here in my room.
So yes, I don't, I don't have a choice.
So luckily those resources
was there for me.
And that's one of the pieces that
was somewhat difficult for me because
I didn't have that support system.
And I didn't have others that could
relate to what I was going through, but,
you know, it was one of those things.
It's, it's tough.
And you know, when the, when
the tough, when the things
get tough to tough get going.
So it's one of the things that I look
back on and say, Hey, I'm glad that I
was able to accomplish that based on
the circumstances, didn't make excuses
of course, but you know, fall through
it and, and got to where I am today.
Siara Barnes: Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
That lends to the whole, you know, there's
some journeys that you have to take by
yourself, we do, there's nobody gonna
be there to, you know, push you along
or people won't understand or relate.
And it's like, well, this is
something that I want to do.
So I gotta make sure that,
you know, I take care of what
needs to be taken care of.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
And, and it sounds like, cuz you, you
did mention, and we're not gonna be
publishing the video part, but, uh,
you did indicate that you were part
of a historically black fraternity.
So I'm assuming, uh, maybe not within
your major, somewhere on your university,
you had, you know, a community to, to
spending your extracurricular
Siara Barnes: what did you,
what did you really wanna say?
Marcus Manning: I did have a,
a, a strong support system and
you can take the word strong.
How, how you wanna see you fit.
Um, yes I did.
From a social aspect.
I did have a strong support community
there, not only with my organization,
but because of the demographics of the
university that we attended, you know,
of course it wasn't at H B C U, and the
population was probably, if I had to
guess, I'd probably say less than 10%.
So one thing that I did, um, notice
is that we did stick together because
there were not a lot of us there,
so we needed to stick together
in order for us to be successful.
And it's, it's interesting.
Just the way of the world is today.
I mean things with the social injustice
and black lives matters, things of
that sort, the crux of what we were
going through at that time is probably
magnified a thousand times more
today, but same similar story, right?
Yeah.
And if you look back even past my days,
if we look back in history, it almost
seems like it's, it's, it's cyclical.
Right.
And it's, it's kind of sad.
Yes.
But you know, it's, it's, it's,
it's where we are and we're,
we're gonna keep on keeping on.
So, but answer your question.
Yes.
I, I did have a very strong support
system and it's funny because my dad
always had a saying, son, if you're
gonna do something, give it 100%.
Said.
Okay.
Well, some of the things I kind of,
uh, I wouldn't say I went overboard,
but when I studied, I studied 100%
when I socialized, I socialized 100%.
Yes.
So whenever you commit to, go all out.,
Jennifer Plummer: well, I mean, and
the lesson is there for listeners
that, you know, maybe headed to school
and they're very focused on this.
And I kind of had the same convers with
my daughter who's in grad school now
is, you know, you need to make time
for your studies and you absolutely
need to stress out, but that is
definitely gonna be a stress need to
have a social life or some outlet.
To, um, you know, to stress relief
or, you know, to relax on the weekend.
I think at work we call
it what recharging.
Siara Barnes: Oh, okay.
Yes.
Recharge days,
Jennifer Plummer: PROS calls it,
recharge recharge days, you know, you
know, find a way to reset yourself.
So, you know, you were having a
lot of fun, but it had a purpose
you might not have made it through
if you had not had this is true.
Marcus Manning: Well, yeah,
that's, that's a good point.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
I like to call it boundaries,
you know, just make sure we don't
go out of bounds either way.
You don't have to study all
the time, but you don't have to
socialize all the time either.
Right.
So let's, let's find a
happy boundaries there.
Siara Barnes: So I always think it's
interesting as a black people, we
always, whatever setting, whatever
setting we're in, if we always tend to
find our tribe, I know that at pros,
we have a group of black ladies who
we have our own little zoom chat and
we kind of, you know, get together.
And if we need to, you know, vent or
we wanna celebrate somebody, it's like
you all we always tend to find a group
of people that we can all relate to
each other, you know, in a way that no
matter how many friends you make, how
well, you know, the other, there's just
a certain experience that we have that
you can't always relate to other people.
And we tend to find it
could be two or three of us.
And that's your little,
your little tribe of people.
It's like, I, I get
where you're coming from.
I totally understand your experience
lean on me if you need to.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
And it, and it's funny.
I mean, sometimes it's intentional,
but other times it's not right.
So I was out at a golf tournament here
recently, and it just so happened that uh,
person I was playing with, he was part of,
and I won't hold him to it, but he's part
of a different fraternity and it ended up,
we were riding in the cart together and,
you know, we were talking and laughing
and, you know, hopefully the others didn't
get offended, but to your points here,
it's just that, I don't know if it's just,
we kind of gravitate towards each other.
Yeah.
Or it's like, okay, well, I have,
you know, kind of a partner in crime,
somebody I can stand shoulder to shoulder
with now I'm not out here by myself.
Correct.
So, and again, it wasn't intentional,
but I thought about it after the
fact I'm like, wow, I spent most
of my time with him and on a golf
course, that's not very common,
Siara Barnes: not very common.
Yeah.
Jennifer Plummer: Well, in our
last episode, Siara's heat check
had to do with codifying and,
and, and, and kind of putting on
that face that you have at work.
And I think it's just having a safe
space where you can kind of relax
and be like, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm
Tru I'm gonna be, you're gonna get a
hundred percent who I am right now.
Yeah.
Cause I need to relax and,
and give that to you instead.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and I can tell you, um, another
friend of mine and I have a lot
of stories, which is a good thing.
We were talking in my office and she
happened to know that I'm in omega and
she was like, Marcus, um, they're not
gonna see that gold boots party you are.
I said, no, they're, they're not they're
somebody could tell I was
having one of those days.
It's good to have somebody
that we could laugh about it.
Could joke about it.
Correct.
And I can decompress and then
I can go back in the game.
Right?
Absolutely.
Jennifer Plummer: You get me, you get you.
Exactly.
Marcus Manning: Yes.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Jennifer Plummer: So I wanna ask you,
uh, what is your definition of success?
Do you think you've hit that yet?
Like when you graduated, you know,
college and you were like, this is what
I'm gonna do, you know, you kind of
said you were inspired by NASA and you
obviously didn't go that route, but.
You are a CTO of a, of a, of a bank.
Like, what is your definition?
Success, have you hit that yet?
Marcus Manning: That,
that's a great question.
Um, in my mind, I would say that I have
not, but I I've always been an achiever.
I mean, I always think that there's
more, you know, not, not that I'm chasing
the dollar, but that there's, there
just always seems like that there is
more so when you, you take one step,
it's like, okay, well I've climbed
this mountain, but there are higher
mountains that are far ahead of me.
So, you know, we'll celebrate this one,
but we need to hit the trail because
there's a bigger mountain to climb.
So there's a bigger mountain to climb.
So what that looks like, um, I don't know
what that next bigger mountain is, but
I can tell you that I'm not satisfied.
I've I've never been a person
that has been satisfied, you know?
Yes.
I've had a lot of accomplishments and
I've been very blessed to have those
accomplishments, but I know that there's
something else and sometimes it's revealed
and sometimes it's not, sometimes you
learn it as you walk that journey or as
you're climbing this mile, you learn it.
Okay.
There's another mile that's coming,
but I need to get this one first.
So, um, to answer your question,
as far as success is concerned, I
think it's, it's, it's three things.
I think financial success
is extremely important.
And I think it's one of those things
that the African American community
has been reluctant to talk about
that I have some ideas why, but I'm
not really sure why it's, you know,
a conversation of, you know, Hey,
let's, let's stay away from that.
Cause I can tell you a lot of the
financial success I've had so far is
because I've listened to other people
and it hasn't been African American.
And when I have these conversations
now with folks in my immediate
circle, I'm having that because I want
them to know, Hey, this is how you
get to being financial successful.
Yes.
This, this is you hone your skills.
You make sure that you're marketable.
You learn about the stock market.
You learn about 401ks.
You learn about RAs.
You learn about money markets.
I don't know about you guys, but
growing up at the dinner table,
those were not the things that
would, that we, that we talked about.
So I'm trying to break that ceiling,
if you will, to start having those
conversations with my people, because if
you don't know better, you don't do that.
You don't do better.
So to me, that's, that's kind of one of
the, the, the key pillars of success.
Um, the second part of that is I
think your morals and your values
need to marry your profession.
And a lot of people wouldn't
necessarily agree with that.
But I think who you are at home is
who you should be at work is who
you should be in your community.
I don't think that we should have to
paint a picture, have to be careful with
my words, but I don't think we should
have to put a mask on when we go to work.
I don't think we should hide the real us.
Of course, you know, we don't want to be
the person that's fitting the stereotype
that people have of African Americans.
Of course.
I mean, we know that we can get a
little loud and we can get a little,
um, let see, what about daughter?
Call it?
passionate.
That's another one.
Passionate.
Yeah.
When you get passionate, you get,
yeah, I like, I know, I know.
I know.
So, you know, those stereotypes that
are put on us, we wanna make sure
that we, you know, try to steer away
from those, but also bring your true,
authentic self and bringing your true,
authentic self with you everywhere that
you go, including in the workplace.
And then I think the
third piece of that is.
I am a big person of
having a peace of mind.
Cuz a lot of times, if you don't have
a peace of mind, then you can't be the
most productive person that you can be.
Now, what that means for you may be
something different from what it means
for me, sometimes a peace of mind to me
is just kind of getting away, you know,
Hey Marcus, we're going to lunch today.
Well, no, you guys go ahead.
I'm gonna go to lunch by myself today.
Nothing, nothing, nothing against a group.
Marcus just wants to be Marcus and
just kind of, you know, regroup,
decompress and have a peace of mind.
So I, I think that's what
success really looks like.
Siara Barnes: I totally
agree with all those Marcus.
Are you an introvert?
Would you consider yourself an introvert?
Marcus Manning: That's a great question.
And it's interesting because I I've
taken, you know, the Myers Bri and
the disc profile and every one of
them, I fall either directly in the
middle, or I'm short on the extrovert
side and heavy on the introvert side.
So I would say it depends.
Siara Barnes: I think Jenny and
I both identify as introverts and
people around us don't believe
us when we tell them that.
Marcus Manning: No, no way.
I'm like, well, it just, it just depends.
Siara Barnes: Yeah.
I'm very much a, uh, I, I
need my downtime to recharge.
There's a lot of noise, a
lot going on if it's chaotic.
I mean, even from my family and
my husband understands, he's
like, okay, my mama needs to
She needs, he needs minute.
I'm like, if I can, if I could
just have 20 minutes, I just need
to bring it down and then I can,
you know, rejoin the conversation.
Um, I think that recognizing those
things about yourself is definitely a
part of being successful because you
can be pulled in a million different,
you know, directions and being able to
say, you know what, I think I just need
to take a minute for my own wellbeing.
That's really important.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Jennifer Plummer: That kind of
goes into, you talked about,
you mentioned Myers Brigg.
Have you done any formal, like
executive coaching to this point,
or would you recommend those sorts
of things to help you with your
interactions with, you know, the other
leaders at your company or your peers?
Marcus Manning: Yeah, here I haven't,
but we did have, um, it was part of
Gallup and we did have, uh, personalized
executive coaches when I was with T DCU.
So I spent about five years with an
executive coach and, uh, I, I would
say that that was a very beneficial
five years for me, because there
are some things that are identified
that we aren't necessarily aware of.
Sierra, you mentioned self-awareness,
but I also think others
perception of you is important.
Not that, not that you're trying to
change who you are, but you need to
know, especially at the executive
level, you need to know what message
you're sending and you need to know
how that message is being received.
And the only way you can know
that is, is, is through feedback.
So that coaching and interaction
with my peers was a good tool
for me to use that feedback, to
understand that, you know, Hey, this
communication loop is not just one way.
It, it needs to be a
sender and a receiver.
And then also too.
I mean, I, I, I have a, a
theory that we learned about
balconies and basements as well.
Right?
So basically what that means is when
you're at your absolute pinnacle,
when you're, when you're hitting
your groove, if you will, what are
those balconies where, Hey, I'm
in my zone and I'm, I'm just, I'm,
I'm, I'm knocking it outta the park.
Well, we also have some basements as well.
Right.
And a lot of times we tried or not
try to ignore them, but those are
things that we don't necessarily want
to entertain, cuz no matter really
wants to hear the bad side right.
Of you.
I mean, none of us are perfect.
Right?
So when those things are brought to
your attention, you know, Hey Marcus,
you could have done this a little
better or Hey Marcus in the meeting
you came across a little brass or, you
know, Hey Marcus, in the meeting, you
know, you mentioned this and you were
very passionate about it, you know?
So it, it's good to know that not
that it would change in behavior,
but it it's it's least good to
know and have that awareness.
Siara Barnes: How do you, um, I don't
wanna say react because that's not, how
do you manage through those basement?
You know, I don't know what to call them.
Marcus Manning: We'll call it situations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, and I can tell, and, um,
I'll just be honest and transparent
because that's just how I am.
There are some people that you deal
with, you know, that we're gonna go to
that basement area, just because it's
Siara Barnes: sounds like
Jenni identifies with this.
Jennifer Plummer: I love that you
acknowledge that cause I think,
everyone wants to be professional.
Right.
And so you're like, well, professional
means, you know, and maybe you're
always thinking the balcony, I'm
always striving you to be the balcony,
but based on that statement and
based on some of my experiences,
sometimes, you know, absolutely right.
We we've, we've gotta dip into this
cuz you know, whatever my goal is
and whatever their goal is for us to
work together we've and to kind of
compromise, gotta go to the basement.
Siara Barnes: Yes.
I identify with that.
It's just, you know, certain people
are certain situations, you know,
and we're kind of dealing with
this now, Jenny and I, um, on a
particular project, but you know, you
try really hard to be, um, cordial.
You try really hard to, you know,
be a team player and then sometimes
it just gets to the point of
okay here.
This is kind of what it is and
you're just gonna have to deal.
We can deal with it after I say the thing
and then we'll just take it from there.
yeah,
Jennifer Plummer: yeah, yeah.
So, sorry.
Sorry.
I, I interrupted
with all my laughing, but yeah, I was,
Marcus Manning: I think we all go
through it and sometimes people try
to sweep it under the rug as if it
doesn't exist or it's not there.
And I'm a big fan of let's call it
what it is and let's tackle it head on.
So if there's a difficult person that
I know back to your questions Sierra,
that I know I'm gonna have to deal with
today, I have to mentally prepare myself.
Yes.
Like, okay.
I, I, before I even walk in the
room, I know where this is going.
So I have to be extra cautious on some
of the things I say and how I say them.
And it gets to a point where.
I have a goal in mind.
What is our goal when we lead this room?
Right?
And if it's to, you know,
achieve a project deadline,
once that's done that, I'm done.
There's no small talk.
Hey, how the kid, none of that.
, let's not sugar coat it.
Let, let's take off that mask.
It's not play games.
We came here to make a decision
decision was made, enjoy your day.
Right.
I'm gonna enjoy my day.
So, so when I have those basement moments,
I, I, I try to be as, as short as I can
and to the point, and, you know, with
all due respect and professionalism, of
course, but the, uh, the small talk and
the chitter chatter that's no, that's,
that's not what we're here to do.
And we're yeah.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
And I'm, I'm like a first line manager.
And one of the, one of the lessons that I
knew, I was like, I have to work on this
is I would wanna fill up that empty space.
Like if you would say something kind
of awkward or like you know, maybe
you're, maybe you're giving someone
some feedback about, you know, their
performance or you're asking someone do
something they clearly don't wanna do.
At first
like, I, I I'd kind of bring it in
like, you know, as an example, your
performance, you know, your performance
was bad and then they just stare at
you and, and I would be like, okay,
well, you know, I try to fill it in.
And I was like, no, no, no, you have
to let, 'em sit with that empty space.
To let, let them know, like I'm
telling you this for a reason.
And, and so, yeah, I guess
that just never goes away.
So
Marcus Manning: yeah, it's, it's,
it's, it's the awkward silence, right?
Yeah.
And, and, and it's funny, because
again, I told you guys, I have a
lot of stories, so, and if my mom
hears it, she's gonna kill me.
But my mom is like the worst when
it comes to awkward silence, she
will try to find conversations.
So how's the weather.
It's fine, mom, how was your day?
It was good.
So how was the weather?
It's
it's still fine 2 minutes later.
But some people are
uncomfortable with that.
Jennifer Plummer: I was so
uncomfortable and I would just be
like, okay, well, yeah, I'll do
the next thing, blah, blah, blah.
But you did, you know, I, and I, you you'd
undercut the message with, okay, well,
that was bad, but I really like this thing
you did, but that, that wasn't the point.
The goal of the conversation
was to be like, no, we, we
need to talk about this issue.
So yeah.
Yeah.
You gotta stay on task.
Yep.
So, what advice would you give to up and
comers who, um, wanna get into technology?
Maybe wanna be a future CTO?
Marcus Manning: I would say number
one, stick to the course, cuz
you know, as I mentioned early on
it's it's, it's not an easy path.
Not, not at all.
I mean, you guys are close to
that circle and you guys, you
know, are in the IT space as well.
You have to consistently learn.
So you, if, if, if you think that,
you know, Hey, I'm an accountant, I
learn accounting practices in 1985.
I'll do this until the rest
of my careers over that.
That's not gonna happen.
So you have to be a, a constant
learner and you have to be able
to adapt to change as well.
I mean, we, we see change in our world
every day and some people are comfortable
with change and others are not.
So I would say, you know, stay
resilient, stay the chorus.
The adaptable to change.
And one other thing that I didn't
get this piece of advice, but I
learned it is try to understand
your business as much as possible.
When I was with the airline Gordon
Baton was the CEO at the time.
And he said that his, his brother
wanted to run a watch company.
And the first thing he asked him was,
was, do you know how a watch works?
He was like, well, no.
It's like, well, how are you
gonna run a watch company?
If you don't know how a watch works?
So, you know, how are you gonna provide
solid technical solutions to a business
that you don't know how it operates?
Right.
So I would say, try to learn the bus.
Not that you have to be an
expert, but try to learn the
business as, as much as you can.
And then another piece of
advice is, uh, it's interesting.
It's kind of our resounding theme
is find that support system.
You know, if, if, if there's a Marcus
out there that you can call and say, you
know, Hey Marcus, what was your journey?
Or these are some of the things
that I'm going up against.
What advice do you have.
I would say, try to find some type
of peer group and they're, they're
much more prevalent today than
they were when I came outta school.
So there there's more opportunities
that are there, which is great,
but I'd definitely say, find,
find that support system as well.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah, totally agree.
It definitely makes things makes
these easier or like, like we said
before, ha ha have your village
that you can go kind of yeah.
Um, reach out to for advice or
just even vent about, Hey, I
was frustrated about this thing.
Okay.
So there's been a lot of talk in
the industry today about diversity
and inclusion and the amount of,
uh, representation in companies.
And I think everyone pretty much
agrees that there should be more
rep representation, but my question
is, what action, what should people
actually be doing to get us there?
Do you have any opinions on that?
Marcus Manning: I do.
I do.
So prior to leaving, uh, TD E C
U, I was part of the DEI council.
I was actually an officer
on the DEI council.
And, um, we, we had these type of
conversations and it's interesting
now because the CEO of T D E
C U is an African American.
Um, he just got appointed maybe
six or seven months ago and he
and I would have conversations.
And one of our board members,
it's interesting out of 12, 15
board members, you only have one
African American speaking of DEI.
So anyway, we, we would have those
type of conversations and the advice,
or not necessarily the advice, but
I, I think action is the key word.
And you mentioned it, Jennifer.
I think action is the key word.
We can give you, I can give you numbers.
I can give you statistics
until the colleges come home.
Right?
I mean, we can put analytics around it.
We can put machine learning around it.
Hey, we predict in, you know,
year 2025, there'll be 5%.
I get all of that.
But what are we doing today?
And you know, some of the conversations
that we've had, I haven't had a lot
here, but in my previous roles, Marcus
walks in the boardroom and I look
around and Marcus is the only one there.
And it's been like that for years.
Not just something that happened yesterday
or Marcus walks in the boardroom and
there is another person across the table.
Then we don't see him
anymore for six months.
But another person of African American
doesn't show up across the table.
It's someone else that has filled
that role or, or taken in that seat.
So when you talk about equity,
If we lose one, then I would
think we should add one, right?
I mean, that's, that's my opinion, but
you know, maybe somebody has some fuzzy
math and they add things differently
than what I do, maybe they do.
But I think, um, taking action and
really putting metrics around what you're
gonna, what you say you're gonna do
and what did you actually do?
Just like, you know, we have
our year end goals, let's make
DEI a year end goal, you know?
Yes.
You know, we have projections, we
have forecasts, you know, we're trying
to meet certain amount of numbers.
We're trying to make sure that,
you know, our retention rate
is at this particular amount.
We're trying to make sure our assets
are growing at this particular amount.
Well, what about our DEI committee?
What about how, how many African Americans
do we have in this particular role?
Or how many do we want?
You know, and a lot of times
it's just conversation.
Well, You put metrics and goals around
everything else you wanna accomplish.
Right?
Why can't we put metrics
and goals around DEI?
So that was, that was one of the
things that we really talked about.
And I think we're making progress
not as quickly as I'd like to
see it, but I do think that we
are making progress in pocket.
So to answer your question, I think
putting metrics around that and
measuring it, just like you do the
rest of your KPIs for the organization.
I think that needs to
be part of that as well.
Yeah.
A second to that is I think there needs
to be mentor mentee programs formal.
I mean, I, I know that, you know, in some
of my social circles, I may have a mentee
or I may have someone that, you know, Hey
Marcus, my son is going through school.
He's having a tough time, true story.
And you know, computer
science may not be for him.
And see, we know, tell me, give me a
call because I, I I've been in his shoes.
I've been down that past and it's gonna
pay off, but you need to persevere.
So in my outer circles,
I think that that exists.
But in the workplace, you know,
if somebody, you guys probably
experience more than I do, you.
We don't have a program.
If I have somebody that comes in fresh
outta college to where, okay, Hey Marcus,
you're gonna be assigned his mentor
or, Hey, you know, your first 90 days,
you need to identify somebody in the
organization that's gonna mentor you.
And I I'd like to see that more of a, a
formal structured program, as opposed to,
you know, oh, Hey, by the way, you know,
we have a junior programmer coming in, he
came from an H B, C U Marcus, can you go?
So it's like, okay, here we go with
this inclusion and thing again.
Right.
You know, Marcus, you're one,
he's one can know each other.
Jennifer Plummer: You
should know each other.
Siara Barnes: No, you know this?
No.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
That's exactly right.
So, you know, regardless of whether it's
African American or not, I, I think that
there needs to be some type of mentor,
preferably, but if not, at least some
type of structured program in place.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah,
Siara Barnes: I think this all
goes back to the conversation
of just be intentional.
I, I understand it's such a
hot topic and like, I get it.
But I think for us who are the black
employees and who have seen, you know,
this mass Exodus, you know, of, of
black people, or just not being able
to see enough of us that look like us
around, it's like, yeah, this was a hot
topic, but what are you actually doing?
Even if I come and bring you a
suggestion, you decide whether or
not you want to take that, you know,
that advice and do anything about it.
So then now I feel deflated.
I feel like, you know, my voice, you know,
isn't heard my, my opinion isn't valued
and then it just repeats this cycle.
And I just want leaders to take
ownership of this and be intentional.
Just be intentional
about what you're doing.
Marcus Manning: Absolutely.
And I, I, I think it takes courage
too, especially being, uh, an
African American executive.
Um, if you're not comfortable in
your own skin and I've seen it happen
before, you're so accustomed to
getting in line and so accustomed
to doing what's expected of me.
Well, you should have
expectations of yourself as well.
And this, again, this is
Marcus's personal opinion.
Siara Barnes: That's a great point.
Marcus Manning: I've always been
the one that, you know, God has
blessed me to be a blessing.
And, you know, even though I'm a
trailblazer, I need to look back
and it's, it's, it's a quote that
we had in my social organization,
um, lifting as we climb.
Right.
So as, as, as I climb, I'm looking
back and seeing who else I can, I
can pull up with me because we're
all walking down this, this, this
same journey or this same road.
Siara Barnes: I love that.
That's very, very true.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah, totally agree.
And things like, um, I mean,
Sierra, you mentioned that the great
resignation, and we also talked
about I introverts vs extroverts
and I think a, a mentorship program.
Right.
I think that would, you know,
obviously benefit everybody.
Like I think everyone.
And I think extra, you know, I'm
not an extrovert, but I'm assuming
extrovert just going up to people
and just ask 'em advice all the time.
You know, and it's a little harder for,
for us people that don't like to reach
out so much to find someone to connect
with and having that structure so that
everyone gets a chance and builds up
that confidence and the re the reason
why people don't think Sierra and I
are introverts is because we've kind of
just keep putting our through experience
the other ways we're like, okay,
well, this is how we circumvent that.
And now we kind of feel comfortable
in those situations, but it
took a while to get there.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, a mentorship
program would help that.
And just really help, you know, as a,
as a, as a development manager, I can
see something that tends to happen
is the person that's really good at
solving a particular set of problems
just kinda, they keep giving
the ball to that person.
Right.
Keep fixing this, keep fixing.
and it could be cuz of time or
whatever, but there's other people out
there that are capable of doing it.
It's just that they don't feel as
comfortable kind of, you know, putting
their hand up or getting there.
And so through mentorship or, or someone
recognizing, or having that conversation
with them, like, Hey, this is how, you
know, I know you're interested, you
know, they can talk about their goals
or where they wanna see themselves in
five years based on that, you know, you
need to get more involved in things.
So, you know, how do you kind of
slowly even conversations, like talk to
your manager about what you wanna do.
Some people, you know, sometimes the one
on ones, people are mentioning things
to me and they're like, yeah, I don't
even under, how did this person do that?
Well, I was like, well, first thing they
did was they talked to their manager
and then, then the manager helped them.
So, you know, people take that for
granted, especially when you you've been
in, you know, you've got several years of
experience, like yeah, of course everybody
knows that, but no, if you're fr you know,
if you're someone who's family isn't in
this industry or you're, you know, they
don't, they, you know, they're not in
technology or they're not in careers that
have this kind of ladder or you're you're,
you know, you're fresh outta school.
You, these are things you don't know.
Like, yeah.
I can't imagine.
I can't, I was pretty dumb
when I came outta school.
it took me a while to
figure out a lot of stuff.
So, yeah.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
And I, I think, I, I think
that's a very important point.
One other thing that I would
recommend is, is, is volunteer for
projects and volunteer for things
outside of your normal scope.
And a lot of times people
don't know that, right?
Because we come in and I
can speak my myself, okay.
This is my job description.
This is what's expected of me.
I'm gonna knock it outta the park.
And I'm gonna just stay in my box
and do this all day, every day.
I'm gonna do great at it, but
that's what I'm gonna do because
that's, what's expected of me.
And I'd say probably
midway through my career.
I didn't really realize that, Hey,
it's okay to start asking questions.
It's okay to start looking around
and seeing what's going on around
you, as opposed to coming in, put
your head down, you know, with your
blinders on doing the job to the
best of your ability then going home.
So I think if you have kind of that
horizontal view of what's going on
around you, I think that helps as well.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
Yeah.
People think, um, yeah, cause
I was kinda like heads down.
I'm just gonna do what I'm doing.
But when I got the confidence to start
being like, why are we doing this?
Like this?
Or shouldn't we do that's really
when people were like, oh,
well yeah, you got opinions.
Okay.
Let's yes.
Why don't you do this?
And why don't you do that?
And then I saw, you know, my
career start to kind grow.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
And I think that's, that's really where
you start showing the value that you have.
Right.
And I think that that's
where the leadership skills
come in at as well, because.
You're not afraid to, you know,
somewhat disturb the apple card, if
there's a better way of doing it.
Hey, Jim, by all means, tell
us, you know, let's do it.
That's, that's what we're looking for.
That's how we got to where we are today.
Jennifer Plummer: So, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and I think about people
on my team where people I've worked
with in the past, you know, it's
like, oh, why is this person, all this
complaining be like, you know what?
They do know what they're talking about.
So let me listen to them or
let's try things their way.
And then yeah.
Obviously the team, you know, grows and
gets better because of those things.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
And I can tell you too, back to the,
kind of the, the D E and I conversation.
I, I think that it's very challenging
for us to educate anyone that's not
African American, especially in the
workplace, because there are some things
that we have gone through that I can
explain it to we're blue in the face.
And some people either they won't
get it or they will pretend like
they don't get it or they'll just fed
out, say, okay, that can't be true.
Well, I, I'm not making this up.
I mean, if, if, if you're willing
to listen and truly listen
with the filters that you have
on, if you could lower those.
And I think it's, it's,
it's deep rooted, right?
Because a lot of times you're
a product of your environment.
And if people who aren't African American
don't interact with African Americans, all
they do is see stereotypes and they watch
YouTube videos and make TikTok videos.
And, oh, this is what they must be like.
Siara Barnes: Correct.
Marcus Manning: That's,
that's a challenge for me.
Uh, especially having those type
of conversations in the workplace
because people already come to the
table with a preconceived notion
of how you're supposed to be.
And when you show them something
differently, then you're the
exception as opposed to the norm.
I'm like, well, no.
Yeah, yeah.
This is how we are.
There are plenty of us, us.
Yeah.
It's, it's not just me, right?
It's not just the error.
It's not just, there are plenty of us.
You just don't give us the opportunity.
And you're not willing to
have those conversations.
So that's, that's one of the things we
talked about, you know, satisfaction.
That's one of the things that I'm
trying to break that ceiling now,
and it's not just a numbers thing
and it's not just an equity thing.
I think there's some things that's
so systemic and so deep rooted.
It's gonna have to take
those tough conversation.
Now, if I get fired, I'm gonna call
you guys and see if you need get.
Yeah.
.In the meantime, I'm gonna keep
trying, trying to break that barrier.
Jennifer Plummer: And
that was really, yeah.
That's that was kind of where the
idea for the podcast came as well.
I was like, there's a lot of black people
in technology, but no, one's really
think, you know, cuz the answer always
is, well, we can't find the people in
technology it's too hard to find them.
So I was like,
Marcus Manning: I'm not,
I'm not buying that one have
Jennifer Plummer: yeah.
So just and, and normalize.
Right.
We know, right?
Yes.
But, um, normalizing to, to America.
Yeah.
Of that.
This is no different than anything else.
Like you're always gonna think
of athletes and musicians,
but no, this, we do check too.
We do accounting.
Siara Barnes: We do everything
Marcus Manning: I told to
have another story for you.
So we're in a meeting, true story.
Here it is.
I'll show it to you.
A guy comes with me, he's like, Hey
Marcus, is that a super bowl ring?
I said, no, it's not a super bowl ring.
It's a computer science degree ring.
Oh, wow.
I mean, it, I don't, I don't think
again, back to that, you know,
systemic, I don't want to call
it racism, but systemic way of
thinking.
Siara Barnes: Yes.
Jennifer Plummer: So UN it's kind of like
an unconscious bias that comes out, right?
Correct.
Marcus Manning: So he, he saw nothing
wrong with asking me that question.
Yeah.
And several people would
probably see nothing wrong with,
with asking me that question.
Another guy told me, you
know, Hey Marcus, you kind of
dressed like tiger woods today.
Yeah.
Jennifer Plummer: Oh really?
Marcus Manning: No.
Yeah.
So some of these board room conversations
that I've had, and it's one of those
where, okay, I hear you , I'm not
gonna address it right now, but we
talking about those balconies earlier.
I'm not gonna address
it right now, but yeah.
We'll have a conversation
after this one, John,
Siara Barnes: you know, it's such a
hard burden to bear also because I
remember when, you know, the UN the
unfortunate death of George Floyd, and
there was all of these conversations
that companies were having with their
employees about how they're feeling and
and I felt, and I know a couple of
friends of mine who one, they were
even in a workplace where their leaders
were letting them openly talk about it.
Right.
The burden of having to either
recount your experience or trying
to educate someone or having to
tell people, like, when you say
this, this is how it makes me feel.
It's like that constant thing.
And I'm just like, I am exhausted.
Yeah.
I want you to go and find an
article to go read about this
or go find a book or something.
I cannot also live the experience and
then also have to carry the burden of
educating you about my experience also.
Absolutely.
That is it's such a, and I don't
think I'm ready for that level.
yeah.
Marcus, I will get there one day,
but right now I'm just like, no,
Jennifer Plummer: yeah.
It's.
It's tough.
I mean, those sort of things
always take me by surprise.
Um, and I actually did a, a presentation
for Grace Hopper or a workshop where it
was like, you just need to be prepared
at some point in your professional career
someone's gonna say something
really inappropriate to you and you
just need to practice beforehand
what you say so that, yeah.
Cause it could just throw you off.
Right.
Cause you're like I'm in this
meeting and it just says something
completely outta left field.
Now I can't even, I'm thinking
about that instead of thinking
about what's in the meeting.
So just preparing yourself for that.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, and again, I don't want
to, you know, inundate you guys
with stories, but these are the
things that stick in my mind.
And some of these stories happened,
you know, 10, 15 years ago.
Yeah.
I remember when Obama was
elected, we were in a meeting.
I, it seemed like it was
yesterday and this guy was pretty
high up in the organization.
He said, well, Marcus, we don't have
any chocolate donuts today for Mr.
Obama.
He said this in a meeting.
And
Jennifer Plummer: oh my God.
Marcus Manning: And, and I, yeah, and I, I
do commend my, my supervisor at the time.
And if he's listening to this, he
knows exactly what I'm talking about.
He came to my office after that
meeting, he said, are you okay?
I said, I'm okay, but I wanna know
what are you gonna do about it?
Because I'm gonna do something about it.
If you got right.
And no, no, no.
Let me, let me take care
of, let me take care of it.
so, um, I don't know what they did to
take care of, but the guy came back to my
office and, you know, he apologized it.
Wasn't sincere.
I can see in the, I wanted to tell him,
get out of my office, but, you know, I
just told him, thank you for coming by.
And the CIO at the time came by my
office, you know, Hey Marcus cause
I heard about what happened, you
know, that's, that's unacceptable.
And you know, if there's anything
you want to do legally, I said,
well, no, I, I don't, I don't think
that's necessary at this point.
But, you know, it, it did make me
feel good that at least my supervisor
had my back and then my supervisor,
supervisor, which was the CIO.
Yeah.
He, you know, and, and maybe
they didn't have my back, but
at least they addressed it.
It wasn't one of those to where we're just
gonna ignore that, come and act like it
didn't happen and, you know, off we go.
Right.
So,
Jennifer Plummer: yeah.
And that, that's a good to, to mention
allyship too, cuz since we, since we, I
think before George Floyd, people weren't
talking about this as openly, right.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And so if something like that
ha had happened at work, I might
not necessarily go to my manager
and say, Hey, you know, right.
This happened to me and
I don't think it's right.
I don't think I would've done that.
So the fact that this is kind of
more of an open conversation now.
Yes.
And you know, based on what I'm hearing,
you know, you know, this is not accepted.
And I feel like there would
be some sort, I don't know
what the process would be, but
like I said, someone's gonna go
talk to someone about it and do
something that, that is the benefit.
And just knowing, you know, you
know, where people stand on that.
And, and I don't think I would've
ever gone to a manager about
something like that before,
you know, less two summers ago.
Marcus Manning: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Siara Barnes: absolutely.
Just another, another thing that
we carry on our back, we just move
on, you know, with your day and try
to act like it didn't bother you.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, you know, again, I
think that support system is very
important and me not having a lot of
African Americans, you know, around
me to have those conversations.
Cause I couldn't have that conversation
with anybody else at the time because
they, they wouldn't have understood.
Even if my supervisor didn't
understand, I wouldn't have had
the ability to make him understand.
Yes, I could articulate
what just happened here.
But what I'm feeling right now.
There's no way I can explain yeah.
That to you because you,
you, you won't get it.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
Any requests here or should
we move on to the heat check?
Okay.
So heat check is where we share something
in the news or something that we were
involved in or experienced that is
exciting us in technology or culture.
So, Marcus, do you have anything
you'd like to share with us?
Marcus Manning: I have some projects
that we're working on, but no,
we, we're not gonna go there.
um, one thing that I am proud
of is that I do commend you
guys for having these type of
activities, forums, podcasts.
Cause I, I, I think it helps.
It helps me and I think it's
gonna help others as well.
Especially the people who are listening.
They're gonna know that, Hey,
I'm not the only one that's going
through this type of ordeal.
So commend you guys for that.
Jennifer Plummer: Thank you.
Siara Barnes: Thank you so much.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
And as far as any publications are
concerned, uh, let's just say not yet.
I, I have a couple of things that,
that, that are in the woodworks
and, uh, you guys will probably hear
something soon, but nothing here
as far as publication.
Siara Barnes: Oh, come on.
We can't get like a first come on.
Could we get a sneak peek?
Heard it here first on
the interface podcast.
Jennifer Plummer: If you wanna
Marcus Manning: y'all gonna get
me in trouble, you know that
Jennifer Plummer: you can let us
know and we will definitely we'll put
that in our heat check for the, the
following episode as soon as we find out.
Marcus Manning: Okay.
Absolutely.
We can do that.
We'll keep, we'll keep
you out of trouble for
now.
Do a good of getting myself in trouble.
Jennifer Plummer: Sierra,
do you have one for today.
You want me to go next?
Siara Barnes: I I'm happy to share.
Um, so mine is very culture and
it's not even technically black
culture, but I'm very excited.
Don't shoot me.
But Adele is back.
Okay.
I, as black people, we can appreciate
good music and my girl is bad.
Jennifer Plummer: I'm still appreciate
appreciating Bruno Mars and Anderson Paaks
Siara Barnes: that too oh my God.
Her, her, she had like a
one night only thing on CBS.
I went out and bought an antenna
for my TV so that I could
tune in to CBS to watch her.
And I told my family.
I am nonexistent for the next two hours
because Adele did it already come on.
It came on last night.
It was
Marcus Manning: last night
I forth of the interview.
It was, it was good.
I'm not a big fan, like
Sierra, but I, it was good.
The pieces that I saw, it was pretty good.
Siara Barnes: I mean the voice and
just her story from her divorce
and how she's, you know, managing
the co-parenting and all of that.
I was just like, thank you, girl.
Thank you.
I'm so glad you're back.
So that is my that's my little
random heat check for today.
I'm excited.
I'm waiting for the album to drop
Marcus Manning: and I, and I know it
was about her, but I mean, do you guys
understand how just magnificent Oprah is?
I mean, did, did you
it was probably interesting coming
from me, but just her personality, her
interviewing skills, just her empathy.
She's just.
Yeah, she's outta sight.
Siara Barnes: Oprah is one of those people
that just, just looking at the span of her
career and how she has taken every lesson
that she's learned and just capitalized
on the, and, and not just even from the
financial perspective, but how she's
been able to help people have certain
conversations, her interview style.
It seems like every interview
now that she's, everybody says,
you're trying to make me cry.
That's like her that's like her key
thing, but yeah, she's, she is sure.
Jennifer Plummer: Show on a regular basis.
I just rather, I just rather watch
ID, just rather watch YouTube
content on the Marvel universe.
that's that's just me.
That's the kind of nerd I am.
Siara Barnes: We get you.
We get you
Jennifer Plummer: hundred
percent respect to Oprah.
I would definitely faint.
If I ever met, met her in person.
Siara Barnes: She's a legend for sure.
Jennifer Plummer: We
should end it on yours.
mine is um, so we talked about a, a few
weeks ago about the cost of computing
and, and, you know, it's actually,
you know, the energy hog it is.
Well, I found an article on
the news stack written by David
Castle, which is which programming
languages use the least electricity.
And they have like statistics where
they, um, they just, they ran the
same benchmarks against multiple
languages to see which ones consume
the most energy, which ones finished
in the least amount of time.
And which used the most data.
So C and C plus plus, and ADA pretty
much rust are all pretty good.
Javas doing pretty good.
And, uh, I, I wrote notes on this.
I did it again.
it just made some pretty, uh, good
points about, um, procedural languages
versus interpreted languages and
how, how they perform on this.
Siara Barnes: So who's the energy hog?
Jennifer Plummer: Pearl,
Pearl is last on the list.
Pythons not doing very well
either is, is looking bad.
So, um, pretty interesting.
And so, and you might need to write
if depending on the architecture of
whatever you're writing and where it's
gonna be, that might be a consideration
about, you know, you how much money
I'm gonna spend on electricity or yeah.
You know, performance is the obvious one.
Yeah.
Right.
We're always concerned about that.
So that one, I was kind of research cause
you, you kind of already know, but, um, I
never had seen a list of this is consuming
this many joules I haven't even heard
anyone mention a joule in a whole oh yeah.
Siara Barnes: I haven't
heard that in a while.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
That's been a long time.
Wow.
Jennifer Plummer: so I was like, wow.
I don't even know really what one
jewel means, but C consumed one joule
while Pearl consumed 79.58 joules.
On this set of benchmarks that they're in.
So it's pretty cool.
Wow.
Marcus Manning: Okay.
So I, I, I do have one now that
you guys have shared yours.
So, um, do you guys have any
Bitcoin as part of your portfolio?
Jennifer Plummer: Not yet.
Marcus Manning: Not yet, yet.
Not yet.
Siara Barnes: We just,
actually, a few episodes back.
We had a guest on who were telling
us about cryptocurrency and
Jennifer Plummer: yeah, we thought
we were gonna talk about cloud
computing and he was like, no, correct.
I wanna talk about bitcoin.
Siara Barnes: And we were, and we
were all like leaned in, like, yes.
Tell us more, tell us more.
Marcus Manning: so we, we were in our
board meeting and one of our board
members seems like, okay, Marcus so
we want you to give a presentation on
blockchain in our next board meeting.
It's like, oh, okay, sure.
not a problem,
Jennifer Plummer: how much
time to the next board meeting.
Marcus Manning: It's in December.
So I, I still have some time, yeah.
IBM has a, a pretty good, uh,
blockchain solution that they're using.
So mm-hmm , but that's, it's, it's
just interesting at this point in time.
So, and like I said, I mean, blockchain
didn't exist five years ago, so we
gotta be on the con continuous learning
curve iPhones didn't exist 20 years ago.
Right.
Siara Barnes: It's crazy.
Jennifer Plummer: Yeah.
And, and then you talk about, so,
and what policies need to be updated
based on that's my, my thing is
like, when, when you start being a,
you know, on the, the verge right
of new technology, but all of
our processes and legislators
kind of based on things that
we, we were doing 50 years ago.
Marcus Manning: Yeah.
Where we're now.
So, I mean, because as you guys
can imagine financial institutions
are highly, highly regulated.
There's mm-hmm.
There's really not a whole
lot of regulation around
cryptocurrency right now.
So, I mean, it's like everybody's
doing what they want to
do, how they want to do it.
And people are making a
lot of money off of it.
Siara Barnes: So is that sort of a,
um, is there a trepidation with going
into these new technologies for someone
like a financial institution, where
again, everything is very regulated.
We've had the same
regulations for a while.
Very few updates.
Is that sort of like tread lightly,
even though they're interested
Marcus Manning: and it is, I think
that's a great way of putting it.
As I mentioned earlier,
we're not bleeding edge.
I would say we're somewhat cutting edge,
but those are some of the hurdles that
we have because we have what's called
examiners and they actually come in,
um, from the state as well as from the,
uh, national credit union association.
So there, there are compliance rules that
we have to abide by in order to operate.
Right.
And if we're not, then they
can come in and shut us down.
So if we come to them and say, you
know, Hey yeah, we have Bitcoin ATMs
and our branches and they're probably
gonna what you talking about?
Siara Barnes: again,
getting yourself in trouble.
Marcus Manning: Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I told you I'd do a good job.
I
Jennifer Plummer: see.
Really, I've seen those Bitcoin
ATMs, like in the local gas station.
I'm like, who is going?
Are people really going
to ATM for Bitcoin?
Marcus Manning: Yes.
People are paying for supplies and
goods and services with Bitcoins.
There was a Congressman I think in New
York said that he wants his paycheck
in Bitcoin.
Yeah.
In Bitcoin.
I don't know if it's true or
not, but I read that article.
Wow.
Yeah it's weird.
Jennifer Plummer: Absolutely.
Mm-hmm I have a funny
story about Donnie Simpson.
Do you remember Donnie Simpson?
The radio host?
Siara Barnes: Yes.
Marcus Manning: B E T Donny Simpson.
Siara Barnes: Hello.
Marcus Manning: So, okay.
We're all.
I'm not showing my age.
Jennifer Plummer: this is how old was I?
Maybe I was 25.
Anyway, he had a contest on the
radio where he was given away
maybe a computer or something.
So he was like, oh, since
this is based on a computer.
I'm not gonna do the 10th caller.
I'm just gonna, you know, whoever calls
in and tells me the first five prime
numbers, I'm gonna give it away too.
Well, first I called in and I think
that one of the first five prime,
like, I don't even know anymore,
but I think, I think they said one,
which one is not a prime number.
And, and Donny said, so was
like, yeah, you get the computer.
Siara Barnes: Why is
your answer key Donny.
That was not, it,
Jennifer Plummer: it was a morning show.
So I was on my way to work.
And I was like, I was like, he this
computer to someone that doesn't
even know the prime numbers.
So, and this is like, oh God, this is
probably like, Year 2000, maybe 2001.
Oh wow.
Somehow I found his email address, which
everyone didn't have email address.
You couldn't just go to their
social media, just put, yeah.
I found an email address or the email
address of the show and I type, I'll tell
you sometimes I get these move and I'm
like, I'm gonna tell this person . And
I was like, I really appreciate that
you're supporting students, you know,
and I, and I'm not by any means saying
you need to take this man's prize away,
but we value basketball players and, and
actors and artists, and we don't treat
people in technology the same
or, you know, scholars the
same way that answer was wrong.
Siara Barnes: classic.
Jenni Plummer.
I love it.
I love to know this
who you've always been.
Jennifer Plummer: I didn't hear the
next morning's morning show, but
apparently he did read the letter.
Oh,
no worry.
Oh, wow.
so it was like, did you send, cause
I think he just used my first name.
He's like, did you send
Donny Simpson an email?
I was like, yes.
Marcus Manning: that is hilarious.
Siara Barnes: Oh my goodness.
Yes.
Jennifer Plummer: I love it.
I'm that kind of nerd?
Did you have any more stories, Marcus?
Marcus Manning: No, I think
that's, that's it for today.
Jennifer Plummer: All right.
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
How could people reach you
if they wanna get in contact?
Marcus Manning: So my LinkedIn, um,
Marcus Mann, you can search me there.
Um, not a big social media person
for, I mean, I wouldn't say obvious
reasons, but me being on the technology
side and on the security side, I
just kind of have to be careful.
So LinkedIn would probably
probably be the best way.
Jennifer Plummer: Awesome.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you to our listeners for listening.
If you wanna reach out to us, you can
reach us interfacepodcast@pros.com.
If I got anything wrong or you wanna, you
know, same way I send her Donnie Simpson.
You do her.
If you don't like
Marcus Manning: something,
Jennifer Plummer: I said, you can
email interfacepodcast@pros.com.
You enjoyed this conversation we encourage
you to go out and find someone to talk
to and have your own conversation.
Bye.