Effekt

00.00.40: Introductions
00.01.18: Old West News
00.11.40: World of Gaming: New Coriolis kickstarts Tuesday; Household (5e and reprint) kickstarts; Reign hard copies arriving; Dragonbane monster standees!; Chaosium’s design challenge
00.31.40: Coriolis - The Pantheon of the Icons including the CALENDAR (and the blog post, oh I see you used my (Jon's) IMAGE for your post, Dave!)
00.53.27: Next time and Goodbye

Effekt is brought to you by Fictionsuit and RPG Gods. Music is by Stars in a Black Sea, used with kind permission of Free League Publishing.
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Creators & Guests

Host
Dave Semark
Dave is co-host and writer on the podcast, and part of the writing team at Free League - he created the Xenos for Alien RPG and as been editor and writer on a number of further Alien and Vaesen books, as well as writing the majority the upcoming Better Worlds book. He has also been the Year Zero Engine consultant on War Stories and wrote the War Stories campaign, Rendezvous with Destiny.
Host
Matthew Tyler-Jones
Matthew is co host of the podcast, as well as writer, producer, senior editor, designer and all round top dog. He was also been involved a couple of project for Free League - writing credits include Alien RPG, Vaesen: Mythic Britain and Ireland, and Vaesen: Seasons of Mystery as well as a number of Free League Workshop products.

What is Effekt?

A fan podcast celebrating (mostly Swedish) RPGs including, but not limited to: Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; Tales from the Loop; and, Alien.

Dave:

Hello. And welcome to episode 227 of Effect, the pantheon of the icons. I'm Dave.

Matthew:

And I'm Matthew. And we haven't really got much to talk about today. No. We we got So it's

Dave:

to talk about. Yeah. So thanks for listening and see you next time.

Matthew:

Now we've got, possibly slightly less news from the, world of gaming than we usually have. Nothing's particularly inspiring us. We've got no new patrons. We do need to do an old world news update. Old

Dave:

world news.

Matthew:

Old west news. That's what I mean. Old west news.

Dave:

Tales of the old west news. Yes. Absolutely.

Matthew:

Actually, yeah, there there could be some fun there. We ought to call it old world news or news Yeah.

Dave:

Okay. Yeah.

Matthew:

Or some anyway, we'll work that out for the next episode.

Dave:

News from the old west. That's that's the one.

Matthew:

And then you, David, have got the article. I'm I've just called you David there. Like, you haven't done your homework properly, but I know you do.

Dave:

So so, Edwin, we we are, unusually, for us, recording face to face in the same location. And clearly, as you can tell, Matt can't cope. We're having me sat actually across the table from him rather

Matthew:

than each other in the eye. We never really have to look at each other while we do this shit.

Dave:

Rather than however many miles apart we actually live, in the in the seclusion of a small room with the door shut.

Matthew:

An hour and 20 minutes apart. That's what I know. Yeah. Thank God it is so far. You've got an essay, the essay you promised on darkness points and the pantheon of the icon.

Dave:

Indeed. But

Matthew:

we will hear more about that in a while. Let's kick off, well, with no new patrons. Let's go straight into our old west update.

Dave:

News from the old west. We should have a little jingle or something

Matthew:

to go about that. We can we can make a little jingle. Yeah. We'll do a little jingle. That'll be our first jingle.

Dave:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That'd be cool. Yes. So progress.

Dave:

My first task in these last couple of weeks has been to finish drafting up the quick start rules, which as, if you're listeners if you're listeners, of course, you're listeners because you're listening.

Matthew:

No. They're not listeners. They just have a song in the background.

Dave:

If you're regular listeners, you'll know that, we're calling that our the quick draw rules. New good news is I finished that. Matt's complained about some of it.

Matthew:

I've complained about quite a lot of it.

Dave:

Very little, actually. I've I've agreed to change a couple of bits. We've added some stuff. Important bits. But we have it's an interesting process, actually, because, we we as a result of that, we have tweaked the grappling rules quite a lot.

Matthew:

Mhmm. And and, actually, that's what I said. We we should probably leave this for the core book, I think, is how I started that. But we've actually done it in the Yeah. Quick start as well.

Dave:

And, actually, making that a little bit more engaging and nuanced than than the original version in the, in the open license text. So that's cool. So it's it's a good process, and that's finished. And I I've written a new scenario, introductory scenario called the last chibilero, if that's the right way of pronouncing it. Chivalero.

Dave:

About

Matthew:

that. Cholesterol. When you listen to this, come back to us and tell us whether Dave's pronounced it right.

Dave:

Yeah. And chivalero is a is a specifically, as it's a specific term relating to the time and to a Mexican buffalo hunter. So you might get a sense of what the scenario scenario. Exactly. I'm now being, like, affected by seeing Matt across the table.

Dave:

Because I might get a sense of what the scenario, is all about. But it's brilliant. I've really enjoyed doing it, and it's great that actually we've we've done it on schedule according to the project plan. We're engaging a very talented editor we've used haven't used before. So better be good, Neil.

Matthew:

We're looking at you, Neil. Yes, Neil. We're looking at the spelling mistakes.

Dave:

Yeah. So that's all going really well. Very pleased with how that's gone along.

Matthew:

And we've got some, our first pictures back from, Malin, our our new artist, as well, and we're reasonably impressed with those. So we will be seeing more of her work in this quick draw. Hopefully, I haven't actually had to reply from her since I sent her a new instructions, but we'll, we'll chase you on that one.

Dave:

Yep. Yeah. So so, obviously, there's pretty some tight deadlines going on here, not only for finishing off the text, which I think is is not the biggest challenge we've got. But getting enough artwork produced and getting the layout sorted out, those are gonna be the big the big challenges. I feel reasonably confident for the quick draw.

Dave:

Yeah. Assuming that Marlon is able to do the the number of pieces we've asked asked of her. Yeah. It might be a different kettle of fish for the final book because there will be a lot more art required for that. But we are we've we've we've we've got we've got a guy, doing our maps for us, and the map's pretty good.

Dave:

Very pleased with those. Not that nepotism is a thing, but that happens to be to be my boy, Dean, who's doing a really good job on those. I've just redrawn, even though this won't be in the quick draw, I don't think. I've just redrawn Frankly,

Matthew:

your sketch is good enough to go in the quick draw.

Dave:

Well, that's very kind. Thank you. So I've just redrawn the map of New Mexico, which I finished yesterday, which is great fun actually. I've it's requiring a lot of a lot of, research. Now I did a I did a map in New Mexico when I started the Yonada Springs campaign because we're obviously setting that in New Mexico.

Dave:

And I did loads of research. And, again, quite often, there'll be towns that didn't exist in 18/73. So I went through all and checked it all. But on this one, I don't know why I rechecked. Think it was because the town was called Angel Fire, and it sounded a bit unusual.

Dave:

So I checked it again. And it turned out that that's a, a ski resort established in 1982. So that's gone. But there is another town not so far away that did exist in 18/73, which has now been added to the map.

Matthew:

So where is that? Which town is that? I'm looking at the map.

Dave:

Elizabethtown is the one that I've added.

Matthew:

It's not quite as cooler name as Angel Fire.

Dave:

It's not. No. It's not.

Matthew:

But, Elizabethtown. Excellent. That's what I'd like to see. And we we we've we've moved a bit. You know, originally, our first playtest campaign, which is still ongoing with one of our groups, was set in Nevada.

Matthew:

Yes. And we I think we're thinking that Nevada would be the core book stuff. But we're enjoying New Mexico so much that we're looking at, new New Mexico being the main location in the core book. Yeah.

Dave:

I think so. I think that makes sense as well. I mean, it's Nevada is great, actually. There's lots of brilliant history. But perhaps it's not quite so eye catching or as good a hook for someone coming to, you know, a Wild West game as as New Mexico, New Mexico being so iconic in the, you know, in

Dave:

the history. And then also thinking that we've got the the the scenario for the core book already written, which is at the moment set in Nevada, but I'm thinking that I'll rewrite that and set it in New Mexico because that comes with a town called Steaming Rock. We've been running the other campaign with Unardo Springs, which again, it's got a town set in New Mexico. And the, the the introductory scenario that I've just done for the quick draw rules is also set in New Mexico, but in the in the northeast of New Mexico. So all these things actually start to build at a good level of content of New Mexico.

Dave:

So I think if we focus on that for the core book and say, here's all this other stuff for New Mexico, That will make a a, you know, a much more fully fleshed and and good gaming location to to to play.

Matthew:

And it's also, as I think, pointing out that we you know, some of the apart from the town, Angel Fire that that only existed from the 19 eighties onwards

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

We are inventing some of the towns for the locations for these scenarios. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because there are some great stories, for example, in Silver City, and and stuff like that, which are historical stories I think we will get on to. But what we want to do with these, these initial scenarios is make sure that we had total freedom not to have to conform to history and to have some terrible people in there that, you know, nobody's great grandchildren were gonna get upset that they're that they're

Dave:

That that person is obviously my great great grandfather. He passed it. Yeah.

Matthew:

So we're we're avoiding that entirely with the initial scenarios, but I think we can unpack as we go on more the history of New Mexico.

Dave:

For sure. And I think my intention with the campaign chapter in in the book will be to have some information about some of the other important towns in in New Mexico, like Santa Fe and Albuquerque and Silver City as well, because the I love I don't know why I love Silver City so much. That that scenario we ran there, just the one. Yeah. I don't know why.

Dave:

I'm you know? Yeah. I don't know. I just love it.

Matthew:

That wasn't my I mean, it was a great adventure. It wasn't my favorite adventure. I Yeah. Much preferred our journey to Albuquerque. I've, actually, I'm we're just editing now, and it's just started, the the adventure that I'm calling Confederate in my editing notes, which

Dave:

With Andy's

Matthew:

is set back in Steaming Rock, but with You're

Dave:

in outer Springs.

Matthew:

So, yeah, in in Outer Springs. But with Andy's character as a central character, I forgot how much I'd enjoyed that playing it.

Dave:

And Okay. Yeah.

Matthew:

Listening to the edit again, I thought, oh, this is it. This is a great adventure, which is every time I edit these adventures for the actual play podcast, I keep going, this is great, which is why you're seeing so much enthusiasm on getting episodes out when I'm also working full time, actually.

Dave:

Yeah. I'll be very impressed with your your rate of production on those. That's,

Matthew:

I I do it in batches, and I've got episodes all the way up to the middle of April now. So once a week they'll be coming out there. And I urge everybody to listen to them, even if you're not a big AP fan. Because part of the fun of it is listening to our arguments over the rules. Because these are play tests.

Dave:

Yes.

Matthew:

And I get pissed off when my character isn't able to do something because they're not getting any faith. And I accuse Dave frequently of creating rules that are not fun. So you get to hear all of that live. Well, not live.

Dave:

Not live. But

Matthew:

but that's part of the development process

Dave:

for the game. Shall we shut up now? Shall we? I'm quite doing talking about potatoes.

Matthew:

Well, yeah. We we've gotta say something for in 2 weeks' time.

Dave:

That's true. That's true. As you can tell, we're both very enthusiastic about this at the moment and really enjoying putting it together. And, yeah, fingers crossed. It continues to go as well as it has done so far.

Matthew:

Okay. So Touhou gets its own new slot, but all the other games in the world

Dave:

Get one.

Matthew:

Get one slot, and that is our traditional world of gaming slot. And I guess the big news for you and me, Dave, is, Tuesday coming up, probably 2 o'clock in the afternoon, GMT that is. It'll be different where you are. The new Coriolis game is launched on Kickstarter.

Dave:

Indeed. Indeed. This might be a stupid question. Are are you gonna back it?

Matthew:

Of course, I'm gonna back it. I mean, there's every chance we'd get it for free anyway from Free League. But, yeah, I'm gonna back it. I may we'll we'll see what the deluxe version looks like, and I'm not gonna go that way.

Dave:

Yeah. I'm I'm I'm gonna back it, of course. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. The conversations we had over the last few weeks about it had made me initially feel, well, it's moving away from some of the things that I love the most about Coriolis.

Dave:

But, actually, the more I think about it, the more excited I am to see what they've done with that. I'm still slightly concerned because, you know, the whole, you know, having having the mechanics of the game make you play a religious character religiously

Matthew:

Mhmm.

Dave:

Is brilliant. I love it. No other game has done that. I mean, back in the day, you you talked about Pendragon Yeah. You know, where all our characters or your character who converted, you know, should be in church every 5 minutes praying and doing stuff for the lord's glory.

Dave:

Mhmm. But that doesn't just doesn't seem to happen.

Matthew:

The mechanics don't encourage that in a way that

Dave:

Right. Coriolis is the first game I've come across that does that. And losing that, I still have a question mark in the back of my mind about it. But, it's gonna be yeah. I'm excited to see what they do with it.

Dave:

Then, you know, I I should have more trust and faith in Nielsen, Costa, and the guys from Free League because they do produce fucking good stuff.

Matthew:

Yeah. And this is interesting. This is sort of I'm not accusing anybody in particular on social media on this one, but there is a general feeling on social media. And this isn't just about Coriolis, but people want to see more for their favorite game from the company. So Yeah.

Matthew:

Somebody I noticed, for example, was talking about, oh, wouldn't it be good if there was a Japanese Versa and supplement? And I said, well, there is a Japanese Versa and supplement by our great friend Thomas, and it's brilliant.

Dave:

Yep.

Matthew:

And, yes, it's inspired by these, wood prints that he was looking at. Yep. And he said, yeah. But what I really want is one from Free League.

Dave:

Free League.

Matthew:

Yeah. Now that's fine. I yeah. Yeah. I mean, Free league, come and talk to our friend Thomas and and let's

Dave:

Yes. And produce

Matthew:

with us or produce with Thomas, a glorious Japanese. I too would love that. But I don't wanna devalue Thomas's work because it's pretty damn good Thomas at everybody who worked on that. Brandon, I know from, Alaska or someone, I think, as well.

Dave:

Yeah. He's

Matthew:

involved. So it is it's a great piece of work.

Dave:

It is.

Matthew:

And it doesn't matter that it doesn't come from Free League. But people like stuff that comes from the main company, the IP holding company. And here is the IP holding company doing new stuff. And now some people are going, oh, but I wanted some more of the old stuff. And I'm thinking Yeah.

Matthew:

This this is their love. They love this game. They own the company only exists because they love this game. Yeah. So Yeah.

Matthew:

I think we should trust them to let them take it in the direction they wanna take.

Dave:

I think it's also a bit different, though. I think fan created content for things like Versen k. I'm I'm I'm gonna argue against myself here. But Well,

Matthew:

Dan, you often do.

Dave:

There is a there is a there is a strong element of, like Thomas, taking the game they love, taking a setting they love, and making that game in that setting. So Japanese version, the US version that someone did. Yeah. And those are kind of like standalone.

Matthew:

Mhmm.

Dave:

They don't affect the whole canon of the game. Whereas if you're fan producing something for Coriolis, it feels to me that that is more likely to affect the canon of the whole Yeah. Environment. So you're not you're not taking Coriolis and Plonkidd into the 5th horizon, doing your own version of it. You are changing

Matthew:

Things happening in the 3rd horizon.

Dave:

Changing the creator's creation in doing that. And I think that's different. Because then when you get fan content doing that, you get no overall control of the direction of of that change. And I think that's probably what people are people are. That's what I think that's probably what I would be looking for from Free League.

Dave:

If they wanted to do more stuff for Coriolis the 3rd horizon, they would then be deciding the direction of that. Now you could argue they've done that in the mercy of the icon campaign, and they've done that in a way that perhaps somebody would disagree with. Exactly. Which is fine. But so I think maybe that's the difference.

Dave:

It's it's it's easier to accept. Is that the right word? A fan created new setting for Veresen. Mhmm. Veresen, Alaska or, you know, Veresen, Iceland or whatever it might be than it is to accept something that is basically changing the underlying story of the whole setting.

Matthew:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And, well, the beauty of arguing with yourself, Dave, is you always win. No.

Matthew:

No.

Dave:

I don't, actually.

Matthew:

But, yeah, I I I'm just I I I think let's let's trust him. I'm sure

Dave:

what he's

Matthew:

gonna be brilliant. And it'll be different, but it'll be brilliant. And I think there'll be enough of old Coriolis in there, to keep my heart beating for it.

Dave:

Wonder where you're going with that. Yeah. But, I mean, it it is interesting because because having having worked on the the essay for today's episode, it's really rekindled. It's reminding me how much I love Coriolis Mhmm. As a game.

Dave:

I'm getting the book off the shelf and having a sniff because it's got a very powerful and unique, unique unique robot. Liking.

Matthew:

It smells.

Dave:

It's brilliant. I love it. And yeah. So it it does make me want to run another campaign of Coriolis, 3rd Horizon.

Matthew:

Well, when we've got this western book out, then you'll have some time to do that. But not at all.

Dave:

I might wanna keep running Tales of the Old West there because I have really been enjoying it.

Matthew:

Yeah. Well, they there'll be people will be asking for supplements and official content.

Dave:

That's true.

Matthew:

Despite the fact the official content is the history of the United States, guys.

Dave:

There is canon there already. Yeah. Exactly. It does require reading quite a lot of potentially quite heavy books. I was gonna bring it down.

Dave:

I've, I'm read the book I'm reading at the moment is called The Restoration of America, and it's written by a guy called Ned Blackhawk. And it's a a history of of the US, but kind of from the indigenous perspective or with a more focused on the indigenous perspective. And it's it's very big. It's very dense. So it's so going, but it's great.

Dave:

I'm loving it. It's really interesting. And it's you know, I've read quite a lot about Native American history largely around trying to, you know, get things right for Tales of the Old West. But this is, again, is is is is teaching me a lot. I'm learning an awful lot from reading this book.

Dave:

And Ned Blackhawk doesn't hold back from being critical of you know, this isn't, indigenous people's fan fest. This is warts and all. Yeah. So you're getting it feels to me you're getting a much more rounded picture. And it's, you know, it's not it's it is a picture that is very, very critical of, you know, the white settlement and colonization, but it also doesn't always paint the indigenous peoples or some of the indigenous peoples in in the the most glowing light as well.

Dave:

There was a lot of internecine rivalry and and hatred between a lot of the tribes, and and some of that comes out. But it's fascinating. I'm just after the the civil war at the moment, and that seems to be a bit of a watershed when the US the union government US government having won that war

Matthew:

Feels it has a mandate.

Dave:

Feels it has a mandate, feels it has the the the bandwidth, to use a modern phrase, you know, or the time to to to attend to what they considered to be the Indian problem. Mhmm. And that obviously didn't go terribly well for the And, the native Americans.

Matthew:

Reasonably large trained military to do it with as well.

Dave:

Yes.

Matthew:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

Right. Should we move on to household? Because this isn't We've

Dave:

gone back to television.

Matthew:

News part 2. Yeah. So, coming up to the world of gaming, I think I am quite excited about having played it only recently for the first time. You've heard me gabble on about

Dave:

Yes.

Matthew:

For his household. Yep. Now they they made an announcement a few weeks ago that excites a lot of people. Actually, the announcement itself wasn't that exciting, and that is they're doing a 5 e version of household. Let's not talk about that, Dave.

Dave:

What's their so this is a a new addition of household. The household exists already? Household exists already. Yeah. In a non 5 years own

Matthew:

It's now in a case

Dave:

now in a that

Matthew:

was kick started, I think, in 2021.

Dave:

Did we have this conversation last time?

Matthew:

I'm not sure that we did. Familiar. Yeah. But but so so there is a version of household. It uses, 2 little mice's rule set We

Dave:

have had this conversation.

Matthew:

But that's a great version. It works really well. I cannot imagine it in 5 e, but I'm sure they'll do quite a good job of adapting it. That's not what interest me though. The Kickstarter, which I honestly can't remember when it starts, but I think it's only a couple of days after Coriolis, which is a pain in the ass because I I would want to invest in that.

Matthew:

Not for the 5 e version, but because they're reprinting the original The

Dave:

old version.

Matthew:

As well.

Dave:

So you get both.

Matthew:

And you cannot get those books for love nor money, currently

Dave:

Okay. Except

Matthew:

as PDF. If it proves to be too expensive or I feel too poor after backing Coriolis, I will just buy the PDFs off.

Dave:

You are loaded now, aren't you?

Matthew:

No. I'm not loaded. I'm working for You're more you're

Dave:

more loaded than you were.

Matthew:

Yeah. But my my wife would still not appreciate me because I remember this household Kickstarter being really expensive at the time. Right.

Dave:

And if

Matthew:

they're distributing for America, we got shipping

Dave:

and tax cost as well. Yeah.

Matthew:

That's gonna put it out of my budget. Right?

Dave:

Yeah. It's funny. I keep telling my wife because, obviously, now I earn a lot less money than I used to. Yeah. I'm not I don't I don't back any Kickstarters anymore.

Dave:

Hardly ever. Yeah. Very rare. Very rare. But then things keep on arriving.

Dave:

Now these are these are tend to be things that I backed a long time ago before I, you know, quit being a civil servant. But still

Matthew:

Thank you.

Dave:

It doesn't support my narrative totally well.

Matthew:

Well, one thing I mean, luckily, Jenny is nowhere near us and can't hear No.

Dave:

Exactly. And she won't bother listening to the podcast, so we can say whatever we like.

Matthew:

One of the beauties I've discovered with my wife is now that Free League sends us free stuff, we can always go, oh, yeah. We got freebie. I'm not I'm not lying and saying it's freebie. I just let them assume it might be something Yeah. For free.

Matthew:

Yeah. It works quite well, particularly with the Coriolis Kickstarter, which she will When you get 2 copies. Yeah.

Dave:

They inadvertently sent me 2 copies.

Matthew:

So but that is a nice segue onto the next item, David.

Dave:

Is it now? Yeah. Oh, it is. It is. So a long time ago, I don't remember exactly how long, but at least a couple of years, possibly even 3, I backed on Kickstarter, Greg Stoltz's Reign game.

Dave:

I'm not quite sure why I did. I think there there were certain mechanics in it that he was talking about that appealed to me.

Matthew:

I think I can tell you why. It's about running a kingdom. It's not about being an adventurer.

Dave:

It's about

Matthew:

being a king.

Dave:

That was it. Yeah.

Matthew:

Some sort of officer. It's a high up.

Dave:

It's a

Matthew:

it's a kingdom level game.

Dave:

Yep. And I having forgotten all about it for many, many moons, got got a notification last week that it's on the way, and I should get it early next week

Matthew:

Oh. In the

Dave:

next few days. So, yeah, that would be cool.

Matthew:

I'm quite excited to see that. Have you had the PDFs or or you you don't read PDFs anyway?

Dave:

I don't think I've got the PDFs. No.

Matthew:

But

Dave:

yeah. So that would be exciting to see that finally arrive. And, again, it brings us straight back to that problem of explaining to my wife that I backed this many years ago, not in the last 6 months.

Matthew:

You wait. We're gonna get western soon.

Dave:

Yeah. I know. That'd be flooding through the door. But, you know, the other the other the other sort of slight bonus for me in that sense is that chances are it'll arrive when Jenny's at work in London. So I can take it out and go out and put the put the cardboard away.

Dave:

Yeah. She'll never know anything else.

Matthew:

Maybe put the cardboard into somebody else's cardboard, which I think.

Dave:

Oh, we have so much cardboard. That doesn't matter. Yeah. That doesn't matter. We've got cardboard.

Dave:

If anybody wants any cardboard, you can have it for free. I've got a bloody garage full.

Matthew:

So, Yeah. Okay. So rain's coming and I'll be very excited to see it. Talking of cardboard, we're segueing like nobody's business. What I particularly love from, Dragonbone, people who've heard me speak on Dragonbane before know that I love the box set with the cardboard standees, which provide everything you need for playing Dragonbane

Dave:

Straight away. Box. Yep.

Matthew:

Now if you buy the bestiary, of course, you don't have any cardboard standees for all those new monsters. No. Except Tada. You do because they've released or they will release. I can't remember when.

Matthew:

I'll put a link in the show notes. Cardboard standees for all the new monsters and, I guess, peoples in in In the beastry. History.

Dave:

So how how do you get those? You have to buy them?

Matthew:

I have to buy them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave:

They don't come to be blue.

Matthew:

But, I mean, they're worth it because they're they're thick cardboard. Yeah. What they don't come with are the little plastic stands you put them in. But, you know

Dave:

If you've got the starter set, you've got You've got the starter set. Handful of those already anyway. Yeah.

Matthew:

Yeah. So I just thought

Dave:

that'd be brilliant.

Matthew:

I love that. And How

Dave:

much is that gonna retail for? Did you notice?

Matthew:

I honestly can't remember. No. Follow the link in the show notes and see what it is. I can't imagine it's gonna be massively cheap.

Dave:

But I was gonna say, is it gonna make people go when they see it?

Matthew:

Compared to the cost of a little plastic figure now Yeah. Given given I don't think you can buy a plastic figure for less than 3 or 4 quid

Dave:

Yep.

Matthew:

To get all those for what?

Dave:

Yeah. 15 quid or something.

Matthew:

15, 20 quid, maybe. I imagine something like that for a couple of sheets of cardboard, which may sound expensive for a couple of sheets of cardboard. But for the play value

Dave:

If you're getting 30 stand ins, maybe it might be worth it. Yeah. I think

Matthew:

I think it's great.

Dave:

And I I mean, slight digression on on the topic still, but the the bestiary is excellent. That book is you know, I I like dragonbane. I think it looks lovely. I've never really had the urge to play it. I quite enjoyed running it at Comic Con last year, But it still felt a bit D and D ish, I guess.

Matthew:

Yeah. It's more.

Dave:

I guess it just Moon partition,

Matthew:

of course. Part of the world. Yeah.

Dave:

Yeah. But But then having had having got the Blue Street, having had a look through that, I started getting a little, you know, kindling of of of something about some of these are these are really nice monsters. These are really well produced. The artwork is, as you would expect, superb.

Matthew:

Of course, our friend Magnus did a bunch of that.

Dave:

He did. Absolutely. Yeah. His story. Didn't Magnus offer to run it again for us?

Matthew:

He did. We should we should

Dave:

go back to yeah. Because the last time we played it, it was great fun. I really enjoyed that. I don't think it's gonna get up the list for me high enough for me to start running a campaign of it anytime soon.

Matthew:

No.

Dave:

But I just wanted to say about, you know, the bestiary is such a good, such a beautiful book that it did get me thinking about it when I hadn't really been thinking about it before. Yeah. Yeah. I mean It's a recommendation.

Matthew:

I think we've got a bit. We love I love Dragonbane more than I love some of the other games that, pre league have produced. But we can only play so many games.

Dave:

Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Matthew:

So I will always do a one off of Dragonbane in some of the offers, but, when it comes to campaign

Dave:

Unlikely to It's it's unlikely. To the table. Yeah.

Matthew:

I'm very pleased to see though that Mohammed in Egypt is running Dragonbane as a campaign.

Dave:

Yes. No. That's that's cool. Yeah. That's really good.

Dave:

As well. Yeah. I mean, he's like, he he does compete with Forbidden Lands. And as we said before, we love Forbidden Lands so much that it's Yeah. It's unlike we're unlikely to be running 2 fantasy campaigns in parallel.

Matthew:

Absolutely.

Dave:

And as it stands, Forbidden Lands wins that wins that

Matthew:

win that fight. Gotta do an adventure for the next time. Maybe I'll look at that best you even.

Dave:

It's not a bad idea. I mean, you could convert some of the things in there if they're not already in the Forbidden Lands. Yeah. Beasts.

Matthew:

Oh, now you're making me think, yeah, I should look at that, adventure book from from the box set of

Dave:

Dragonbane. Dragonbane.

Matthew:

You can drop those in there pretty easily.

Dave:

That would be very easy. Yeah.

Matthew:

Anyway, we're getting we're getting aside from the subject there. Bestiary. Yuri. Oh, the other thing again, I'll put a link to the show notes. I'll put a link in the show notes.

Matthew:

Chaosium are doing a design challenge.

Dave:

I did see that.

Matthew:

Yeah. And that looks quite good fun.

Dave:

I'm kind of torn about the prize money. It's $10,000, isn't it?

Matthew:

Well, yeah. But divided among a number of winners.

Dave:

Was it okay?

Matthew:

Yeah. You know, it's not necessarily knowing what we are spending on maps and art, for example. Yeah.

Dave:

10.10 grand don't go far.

Matthew:

It's not gonna go far. And, well, you know, so if an individual prize winner gets, say, 2,000, you know, it's gonna be hard. It's not impossible, but it's gonna be hard eking that out to put something online. But still, I love that.

Dave:

It would be zenish, wouldn't it?

Matthew:

Yeah. I love the concept, and I urge anybody who enjoys BRP. So yeah. And it's about taking their BRP basic role playing course set of rules and doing something Coming

Dave:

up with something new. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It sounds it sounds fun.

Dave:

Sounds interesting. I mean, I I don't have the time or the inclination, actually, to

Matthew:

to We could quickly rewrite the rules Charles with the Old West to be BRP. We could But

Dave:

not get clearly

Matthew:

do that. Yes.

Dave:

I think so.

Matthew:

No.

Dave:

Having spent 4 years getting the rules to where they are now. Yeah. But yes. No. Good stuff.

Dave:

Good luck to everyone who's, who in who's entering it. I mean, I I quite keen to do, maybe do a zine next year or produce a zine next year on my American football role playing game, which I haven't finished yet. It goes in spurts. I get enthusiasm, and I crack at it for a couple of weeks and do loads, and then it all falls off. But, actually, there isn't that much left to do.

Dave:

Okay. Put it all together in a sensible way, but I think the the the gamer mode excuse me. The game mode is mostly there. I've got some fiddling to do with some of the stats around that. And then the basic the basics of how the the rest of the game would work.

Dave:

I know it in my head. I just need to write it down. Cool. So there isn't that much work left, but let's see let's see how much time I get.

Matthew:

Yeah. Let's get the Western. Let's get you paid.

Dave:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Prioritize.

Matthew:

But it would be fun to do it maybe for next year.

Dave:

Zinc That's kinda what I was thinking. Yeah. Because Zincrest is what? Gonna be February or something?

Matthew:

Something. Was

Dave:

it February this year?

Matthew:

Now that we're like that with Kickstarter because we've got a proper relationship with them, we we'll we'll find out that shit. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew:

Cool. Let's move on.

Dave:

Is that it?

Matthew:

Yeah. That's all

Dave:

of the world of gaming. Okay.

Matthew:

Shall we move on to your essay, Coriolis?

Dave:

Yeah. Indeed. Last time, I accepted the challenge to, as I said in the show, fix darkness points. Now why would I do such a foolish thing? I must have said it in the heat of the moment, a sudden rush of blood to the head, or perhaps inspired by my rekindled love of Coriolis the 3rd horizon.

Dave:

For that is something I want to briefly reflect on. I love this game. And the chance to dive into it again as a GM and with my designer head on has been a lot of fun. Just opening the book and inhaling that gorgeous and unique smell takes me back. And you can just feel the love that Niels, Costa, and the others at Free League have poured into it.

Dave:

But all that said, I'm not sure I can fix darkness points, or if they even really need fixing. But I did promise to take a look at the pantheon of the icons, and give some thought to what they might be like. How they might interact with one another. And how the prayer to the mortals might affect them. And what this might mean for darkness points.

Dave:

So buckle up my fellow pilgrims. This might be a long one. The first thing I'm going to say is a caveat. As we all know Coriolis is renowned for making everything in shades of grey. And, every icon has different sides to their nature Depending on who you are, what third horizon culture you grew up in, and what you believe.

Dave:

So as always, I caveat this discussion with the fact that this is my take, and you don't have to agree with me. I am imagining the icons as a version of the Greek gods. Supernatural entities, but with the desires, whims, and motivations of normal people. They can be pleased, appeased, displeased, or angered by the worship and the prayers of mortals. They can be petty, vindictive, and vengeful, or in the right mood, generous, compassionate, and loving.

Dave:

They also compete with one another. A constant politicking in the heaven like dark between the stars. Taking out their frustrations on the mortals who dare to call for their aid in a moment of crisis. For that's what pushing a robot is all about. It's a mortal human asking for something from the icons.

Dave:

About them demanding help and taking from the icons without something in return. Naturally, the icons are at liberty to ignore that request. And the push roll goes badly. Or gracefully exceed and grant the boon the player character has demanded and the pushed roll goes well. On the other hand, preparatory prayer and propitiation are the opposite.

Dave:

The mortals are worshipping the icons giving their prayers and adulations to them for free, asking, in that moment anyway, for nothing in return. Yes. They receive the blessing of the icons in that instance. So future prayers get priority boarding as it were. They gain a bonus to pushing certain skills based on what icon they've worshipped in advance.

Dave:

But that's a benefit for the future. This brings up an interesting question. Are the icons all equal? If you look at their descriptions, some are clearly held in greater regard than others. But I think their power is seen most clearly in the blessing they give when worshippers get their knees dusty in a chapel and pray.

Dave:

In doing so, the blessing of the icon receiving the prayers gives a bonus to certain skills when those skills are pushed in tense moments. Some icons only bless one skill, the lady of tears, the deckhand, and the merchant. Others bless 2, the dancer, the gambler, the judge, the traveler, and the faceless one. But only one blesses 3, the messenger. Does that indicate the hierarchy of the heavens?

Dave:

I'm going to say that it does. With the omniscient and temperamental messenger holding the best hand of cards in the icon power struggle. And that brings me to the nature of the icons, where I'm going to boil down their nature into 2 descriptors. I've already told you those for the messenger, omniscient and temperamental. But what about the others?

Dave:

I'll start with our 2nd tier icons. Those that bless 2 skills at a time. The book tells us the dancer is the bond between lovers. Or in another guys, the personification of lust. Her dark side is the beast.

Dave:

Perhaps formed by a jilted lover. I see the dancer as a jealous icon. Vindictive if not treated well. So her aspects would be jealous and vain. The gambler is adventurous, curious, a trickster, who hates cowards and those who take no risks.

Dave:

I see him as inquisitive and contemptuous. The judge presides over the afterlife and as such feels to me like he should be the princeps, the first citizen of the icons. But if he's not and the messenger rules over him, the judge is still senior and carries much clout in the pantheon. The judge's alternate side, the martyr, willingly takes shit for the other icons and accepts unjust punishments for the greater good. As such, the judge is authoritative and compassionate.

Dave:

The traveler is the starsinger, the one who spreads wisdom, but is also depicted as Demiurge, the evil cosmic spider who controls the web of travel and transport, and perhaps was the original portal creator. His aspects are wise and malicious. The faceless one is closest to the dark between the stars known as the shadow that brings madness. As such, many see this icon as the purest of them all. So the faceless one is pure, but insane.

Dave:

Now to the lower ranking icons. The Lady of Tears is the escort of the dead, guiding those once mortal souls to the afterlife. As such, and as the judge presides over the afterlife, it feels she is subservient to that icon. But she has an angry side shown in her power over the element of fire. So she is considerate but vindictive.

Dave:

The merchant is depicted as either a fat jolly man or a kindly elderly woman. But is neither jolly nor kindly. Miserly and mean more like, the merchant expects, nay demands tribute, and cares nothing for the mortals who must provide it. And last but not least, or maybe the least actually, the deckhand. He is depicted as a tired boy with broom in hand who blesses the home and hearth, ships, and cargo.

Dave:

He protects the oppressed and downtrodden. And I think that's because he is put upon and downtrodden in the icon pantheon. His aspects would then be protective and tireless. That's all very interesting, I hear you say. But how can that help in game?

Dave:

What does it have to do with darkness points? And how can we use them? Well I have an idea. On page 232 of the core book, you will find the Coriolis calendar in circular form. With the 9 segments in their 3 triads of 3 segments each, listed by the icon that represents each segment.

Dave:

Get your book off the shelf if you can and take a look now as that will help you imagine what I'm getting at. Imagine a version of that diagram which also lists the 2 aspects of each icon along with 5 tick boxes for each icon as well. In game, the players must always nominate the specific icon they are calling out to when they push a role or worship in a chapel. If they've had the good sense to complete proprietary prayer for the divine push bonus, they will have to call out to that icon to get that bonus. Each time they call for an icon's help and push their role, the player marks off one of the 5 boxes next to that icon.

Dave:

This shows how much the player character is bothering that icon. They mark it with a tick if the outcome of the pushed roll was successful, or with a cross if the outcome was poor or a failure. When they've pushed 3 times and 3 boxes are checked, something happens. If the push rolls have generally been successful, I e there are more ticks than crosses, the icon who has been called upon for help is happy. However, one of the other icons is jealous at the attention the player's character is giving to that icon.

Dave:

The GM immediately gains an extra darkness point due to that divine outrage and must spend it against the player character in question. This represents the other icon's jealous anger. And the action resulting from that darkness point should relate to one of the icon's two aspects in some way. So for example, let's say the faceless one has been called upon 3 times and the roles have gone well. The other icons are envious that the mortals have not called upon them instead.

Dave:

The GM decides the gambler with his aspects of inquisitive and contemptuous has been angered and gets a darkness point to spend against the PC immediately. This allows the GM to change the narrative in a fun way based on the aspects of the angry icon. Perhaps a nearby guard, journalist, inquisitor, or neighborhood watch warden becomes suddenly inquisitive into what's been going on and gets involved. Or maybe a friend or important NPC involved in a tense negotiation suddenly takes offense for no obvious reason and becomes contemptuous of the player characters. Now on the other hand, if the pushed rolls had generally been unsuccessful, there are more crosses than ticks, then the icon who has been called upon is not enjoying the attention and gets angry.

Dave:

The GM gets a darkness point to spend on the PC in question, but this time the outcome depends on the specific icons aspects. In our example, that would be the Faceless Ones aspects of pure and insane. Perhaps the PC goes temporarily mad or out of their mind, or a nearby ally or enemy goes bonkers. Alternatively, maybe a bystander sees the icons purity shining through the player character. And they gain an unwelcome hanger on or groupie at a time when they could really do without.

Dave:

At this point, if the icon is unhappy, the checkboxes are all wiped clean. And the PC starts again with no boxes ticked or crossed. However, if the icon is happy, the boxes remain checked. Future pushes fill out the 4th 5th boxes, again with a tick for success or cross for failure. If after all 5 boxes are now checked, at least 4 of them have ticks, the icon is delighted with that character and may become honored of that icon.

Dave:

Being honored brings them a plus one bonus to every die roll from now on. Well, that is until they fail a pushed test and the icon gets bored with them. Then the track is reset to the beginning. But what if a player character is so devout they get honored with 2 icons simultaneously? Well, then they have to choose.

Dave:

They gain the honored bonus from the icon they choose, but the rejected icon is incandescent with rage. Any attempt to pray to that icon at a chapel, during a push, or elsewhere is an automatic fail. Including a pushed role that had successes before the role was pushed. This lasts until the blessing of the other icon expires, and all the icons are back to being equal in the eyes of the righteous. Now, I have no idea whether this would work at the table.

Dave:

But I like the idea of making the icons themselves more involved in what's happening on the ground. We know they exist. You pray to them and good things actually happen in the real world. So why not expand on that a little bit? This way your players would become more intimately acquainted with the icons, would feel like they would get to know them a bit, build a personal relationship with them through their prayer, and the results of that worship.

Dave:

Something that religions do and religious people feel. It also brings some hints and ideas for a GM who may be struggling with a narrative approach to using darkness points. In my opinion, the best use of darkness points. But the hardest for a GM to get consistently right, and keeps the icons front and center in a game that stands on the foundation of the icon pantheon.

Matthew:

Now there are things I like in this, and there are things I don't like. And the thing I don't like will come to that straight away. You recommend that people go to I'm gonna read out the text here because you've given me your notes. Page 232 of the core book to find the Coriolis calendar.

Dave:

I know there is another one. I had it to hand over

Matthew:

There was another one somewhere. You've seen it, I don't know, somewhere on the 3 league workshop.

Dave:

Well, I I did I did assume that we would mention it in this in this conversation. I didn't think you had come out so foaming at the mouth mad about the fact that I hadn't mentioned it in my piece, but there is a fabulous Coriolis calendar produced by

Matthew:

By me? By me and

Dave:

by John Salquist. John Salquist. Thank you.

Matthew:

And it's got beautiful art in it. There's beautiful

Dave:

art in it.

Matthew:

What you don't realize is this whole new horizon may have a bloody different date system, and MacAllan is out the window with this new game.

Dave:

But then you just have to do a new one.

Matthew:

Well, we might

Dave:

have to. Yeah. Again. Yeah. And you've

Matthew:

already set the precedent. Or we just make sure that the Coriolis time standard keeps keeps even in the that's what we'll say. Yeah. We'll we'll make it work somehow.

Dave:

Yes. Yes.

Matthew:

Anyway. Yeah. So that was that was my first thing. If you are playing in the 3rd horizon though, the Coriolis calendar is beautiful, informative, and it lets you organize your campaigns with a proper actual yeah.

Dave:

This is this is like time. So I I I've got on YouTube to watching, an astrophysics, astrology channel where there's a there's a, an astrophysicist called Becky Smethurst. Oh, yeah. She talks about lots of stuff. But a lot of her stuff is, yeah, there's paid promotions in it.

Dave:

And halfway through the, you know, the 20 minute concert, she stops and spends 3 minutes talking about her her her her, her sponsor. And that's just how you started. Just the just going straight back into

Matthew:

Remember, some time ago, I rejected our free gifts from Manscaped. Otherwise, we'd have to be talking about male grooming.

Dave:

Otherwise, I would have the smoothest. Yeah.

Matthew:

Let's move on. Let's move on. Okay. But what I like about it what I definitely like about it is this idea of devotion to individual ones. So Mhmm.

Matthew:

Unpack that for that for me some more.

Dave:

I think the the the key thing I was trying to do was make make the icons more of a thing. Mhmm.

Matthew:

In in

Dave:

in the real world, religious people will say that they have a relationship with their with their God.

Matthew:

Mhmm.

Dave:

But it's not like a relationship where they go and have a cup of tea, or chat about the weather. It's different to that.

Matthew:

I think I think we frequently chat about the weather with God. I mean, he never replies, but I think a lot of us say,

Dave:

oh, god. For fuck sake, God. It's raining again. Yeah. Well, he's not gonna listen to that, is he?

Dave:

So I wanted to make them more real, I guess, but without making them superpowered NPCs. They're not the kind of they're not gonna have a conversation with your character, but the player in going through, you know, gaining greater devotion and maybe becoming honored with a particular icon would hopefully then build up some kind of feeling of relationship or intimacy with that icon, and that would then help enrich the game for them a little bit. As I said in the bit, I've got no idea how this would play at the table. It might not work well at all, but that was kind of my intention behind it.

Matthew:

Cool. No. I love it. I I love the fact you get that plus one. I love the fact that, you know, when you fail a push test, then that shows God's lack

Dave:

of interest in you.

Matthew:

And suddenly, you you've lost that bitterness. I love it all. I think it's great. Cool. It doesn't do what you originally set it out to do, which is fix darkness points.

Dave:

Well, I did right at the start, I said, what a foolish thing for me to have said. Yeah. Because actually, I'm darkness points in the way they are, unless you completely change them, I think probably can't No. And fixed if that's the right word.

Matthew:

Spent the last few years on this very podcast talking about Yeah. Everything. And it's quite it's kinda good because what I didn't want is for you to fix darkness points just before we move away from darkness points.

Dave:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew:

That would've been that would've been gutting that

Dave:

I think, you know, you could fix darkness points, but then they wouldn't be darkness points anymore.

Matthew:

Yeah. And as you say at the end, the narrative approach using darkness points is the best approach using darkness points.

Dave:

Yes. But it's difficult. It can be tough.

Matthew:

I I I

Dave:

think it's

Matthew:

I think it's quite easy. I think

Dave:

Yeah. Okay.

Matthew:

I I think it's easy if every time you tell a bit of story, you drop a dart at this point in the pot, and so it's significant. That's what I do.

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

And then, that's the easy way of doing it. Oh, you hear a strange sound at this point in the pot. Yes. Yeah. Then suddenly that strange sound has significance.

Dave:

Yes. It really. Yeah. You can't do that too often.

Matthew:

No. No.

Dave:

Because otherwise, you, you know, you're a crying wolf. But yeah. And, again, do you see the idea of of of of the icons having the kind of their 2 aspects is basically a, like, a prompt or a trigger for the GM to say, okay. So they, you know, the I one of the icons is pissed at them for being so devout to the judge, which one of these would apply in this situation. And I go, okay.

Dave:

I am

Matthew:

Yes. You

Dave:

know, considerate. Okay. Someone is gonna be considerate to somebody else rather than the player character or, you know

Matthew:

Or, the gambler is pissed off with you, and suddenly the police are interested in your activities. They're inquisitive. Yeah.

Dave:

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So, what I have done, I've done a post on on on my blog RPG. Woah.

Dave:

I know. First time in 3

Matthew:

years. Thanks.

Dave:

Basically, I putting this on there and doing a very quickly drawn on PowerPoint diagram Mhmm. Of the calendar

Matthew:

We'll put link in the show notes.

Dave:

With the

Matthew:

We'll put link in the show notes after we put the link to my fucking

Dave:

calendar. Calendar. Yes. Well, maybe your you could do a new version of the calendar.

Matthew:

Link in the show notes too. For your link to your blog will be really, really small. Yeah.

Dave:

Size is not size is important, Matthew. But, you know, that's there. So you can you can you can print that off from there if you want to give it a go at the at your table. But again, as I was writing, you know, as I was writing this and as I said earlier on, it's it's really got me interested in playing Coriolis again, and I would quite like to try this in a Coriolis campaign. Quite when I'll get around to doing a Coriolis campaign, I don't know.

Dave:

But but we will see.

Matthew:

Yeah. Well, it's the sort of thing that you may find is quite easy to drop even into a new horizon. Possibly. You are inclined

Dave:

to chat. It does depend on how front and center the icons

Matthew:

Yeah. Are in We can make them front and center, though. We can make them front of them.

Dave:

We could do. Yeah.

Matthew:

Remember, there's a bloody free free license now out there for us.

Dave:

So what we do as soon as they produce the what's it called? The the the great

Matthew:

The great dark.

Dave:

The great dark. Yeah. We do

Matthew:

icons of the dark or something as a supplement. Yeah.

Dave:

Yeah. Yeah. We just take their core book, rewrite it with icons in it, and produce it and sell it.

Matthew:

No. I think I think that's probably I think it's probably a

Dave:

thing that's against. Yeah.

Matthew:

But we could do a supplement that's that's got icons in it. I'm sure we could.

Dave:

We could. Yeah. Yeah. The hidden icons or something.

Matthew:

Anyway, that's the end of our recording time.

Dave:

Cool. How long have we been going?

Matthew:

We've been going for 40 minutes, so this should end nicely in about an hour, shouldn't it? When we when we did it altogether.

Dave:

Is that only 40 minutes? 42 minutes.

Matthew:

Okay. Minutes now we've been talking. Oh, that's quite 43 minutes and 3 sec 4 seconds now.

Dave:

The next 20 minutes, are you just like, oh, 40:44 minutes now?

Matthew:

Now let me tell you about an idea I've had for next time and just see if floats your boat.

Dave:

Okay.

Matthew:

We, as we mentioned before, have been looking at the quick start rules, and we had

Dave:

a bit of discussion Let's call them quick rule rules. So we get quick

Matthew:

rule. Yep. But we had a bit of discussion around the the criticals table, which

Dave:

Yes.

Matthew:

We've already discussed. That works a little bit differently to other criticals tables. And we were talking about the odds of dying and stuff like that. And, it made me think, well, have we ever actually looked at what the odds of dying and incapacitating wounds and things like that are in all the different

Dave:

3 league games.

Matthew:

3 league year 0 games and see how their critical tables line up or differ. And I thought I might turn that on for next for the next episode.

Dave:

Yeah. Why not? That sounds interesting.

Matthew:

Yeah. Yeah. So so so that's what we're going to do. How easy is it to die effectively from a crate? Yeah.

Matthew:

In in in all the various games.

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

Yeah. I mean, I'm just something else that made me think about this. I can't remember how the how the crit tables work in Blade Runner, but I recently played in the first episode of Firey Angels.

Dave:

Firey Angels? Yep. Which

Matthew:

you'll see on Raldanash's channel. Cool. And, of course, the crit system is a bit different there. You roll a d twelve for a start, and I got a 12 and blasted somebody's head off, which is great cinematically. Perfect for the narrative.

Dave:

Were you persecuting replicants?

Matthew:

Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, that that's my job.

Dave:

Okay. So some poor replicant had his head shot off.

Matthew:

Well, maybe. I'm not convinced that we're gonna find out he was a replicant.

Dave:

So some poor person.

Matthew:

We thought he was a replicant. We were firm in the knowledge that

Dave:

he's good enough for you.

Matthew:

And not just a replicant, but in a legal replicant that as well. So, you know, they absolutely deserve to have his head shot off at that point, whether that's true by the end of the adventure. We'll find that out.

Dave:

Anyway There's there's there's interesting parallels here. Again, going back to the Wild West with pattyrollers.

Matthew:

What are patty rollers?

Dave:

Pattyrollers were men, I suspect men rather than women, who were paid to hunt runaway slaves.

Matthew:

Yes. Yeah.

Dave:

And they were tended to be very successful because it was

Matthew:

very difficult. Very easy to prove you weren't a runaway slave?

Dave:

Well, it's impossible. Yeah. Pretty much. And actually running away far enough to the point where they can't grab you and take you back is is exceedingly difficult. Yeah.

Matthew:

Yes. I can imagine.

Dave:

Anyway, sorry. A slight digression.

Matthew:

About 12 years a slave is kind of all about that.

Dave:

Exactly. It's all about that completely. Yeah.

Matthew:

So, yeah. That's what we'll do, in our next episode Cool. In 2 weeks time.

Dave:

Excellent.

Matthew:

So I guess it's goodbye from him.

Dave:

And it's goodbye from me.

Matthew:

And may the icons bless your adventures.

Dave:

You have been listening to the effect podcast presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG gods music stars on a black sea used with permission of freely publishing