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Join Christina (CC) and Denise (DeDe) on Emissaries of Renewal, a podcast that explores ethical evangelism through radical hospitality and education. Embrace God’s transformative love through Jesus Christ with us as we share inspiring stories, meaningful conversations, and valuable insights.
And welcome back to Emissary's Renewal. Cece here. And today I'm excited because
I'm also here with Didi and Jessie.
Hey, friends. Yeah, the whole crew is back together again. And it has been a
minute since all three of us got to record an episode together.
It has been a long time, but it
is kind of fitting for all of us to come together at such a time as this.
When Our Lady of the Holler, Ms. Deli Parton, has gone on to glory, as we say in the South.
And we kind of felt like we needed an episode to celebrate how she brings the
gospel to us, her storytelling, her philanthropy, and all of the ways that she
brought a lot of joy and a lot of shine to this world.
So before we get any further, I just wanted to say that,
we wanted to honor Dolly Parton and check out,
and talk about what she did in her life and what kind of marks she left in society
and what kind of marks she left in our hearts as Christians and how she was a philanthropist.
She had a remarkable just welcoming heart and sense of presence and she had
so much grace i would only pray to have so much grace as her and humility right,
and her generosity and she was so funny she wasn't scared to be who she was
that god created her to be and she stepped into that she stepped into that,
fully knowing and aware of god made her to be this amazing woman to give back to the world.
Absolutely. And before we go any further, though, I think we need to say—and,
this is coming from me, y'all—we're not trying to canonize Dolly today.
We aren't saying she's perfect, or she is replacing Jesus with any of those rhinestones.
Though I think, you know, I think Jesus would appreciate a good rhinestone.
You know, don't get me wrong. God did create rhinestones, right?
Amen. Amen. And she owned a lot of them.
Yep. And she actually, I don't know if you saw her nephew announcement from,
you know, he represented the family to announce after she passed.
And I guess one thing she told him was that she wanted to rest in cotton because
she'd worn rhinestones all of her life and they were heavy.
But um so she was wanted to you know be laid in cotton well that's beautiful
yeah which was to be soft and plush at the end of that time,
so leave all the shine behind for the rest of us which is definitely what she
did i mean it's very obvious from all of the,
responses online and all of the attention on news outlets that she meant a lot
not to just the people that were surrounding her and the people from the area she came from but
she touched hearts all over this world by things that she did things that she
said um ways that she was able to represent um.
People that don't get a lot of that grace in mainstream. And she brought people
to the forefront that would be celebrated, I think, like Jesus would celebrate this.
And I think that canonization isn't a crazy idea.
I did hear some people talking about how her feast day is right now occupied
by a very lesser known gentleman in history. And, you know, we change things
up every once in a while. So, who knows?
Yeah, we being the Episcopal Church. We being the Episcopal Church. Yes, yes.
So, there is a movement. There is a movement in the Episcopal Church to talk
about bringing Dolly in and giving her a feast day.
And I, for one, know everybody on this screen absolutely supports that idea.
Yeah. So with whatever little power we have.
Like you said, she wasn't perfect, but she did definitely, I feel like,
take Jesus everywhere she went.
I truly do. Rather or not, she was saying it explicitly.
She brought a lot of joy.
And that takes us to today's topic, right?
About what she taught us, how what Dolly Parton taught us, and how we could
ask of one another, how she stepped into everyday evangelism,
right? And what did that mean?
Yeah, as we know, you know, something I preach on, definitely, and, you know,
through this platform is evangelism comes from what, I've said it way too many
times probably, you and Galleon, the good news, the excellent announcement,
which is my favorite way of saying it.
And we have spent the last two seasons asking how we share that good news in
ways that, you know, it's ethical, relational,
loving, and what, most importantly, what are something I say constantly, never coercive.
And um amen amen it has to be an invitation and and we're here to talk about
what it looks like when it shows up in things like you know,
dolly's giving books to children and all of you know helping out when when things
go wrong that are kind of out of our hands um,
how we learn from each other and what to do when we realize that our actions
or our words may have hurt someone caused harm.
We want to look at a faith that does not have to shame or to exclude people in order to be real.
Yes, but before we dive in, we can't forget that this podcast,
Emissaries of Renewal, is made possible by the Episcopal Evangelism Society.
We are so grateful for their ongoing and continued support.
EES is in their encouragement and their thoughtful, innovative relational evangelism
in the Episcopal Church and for us budding lay leaders and clergy members of
the Episcopal Church. So thank you, EES.
Yes, we say it every time and we mean it every time. We are truly 100% grateful.
Okay, so, Deedee. Yes, ma'am. Remember, the first time I met you,
within, I think, the first couple of minutes of knowing you,
you talked to me about Dolly.
Probably. Yeah, so you have loved her since you were five years old,
so please tell us, why Dolly?
Okay. Why this episode, right? Well, why this episode? So, well,
number one, I don't think anybody who, I don't think any Christian can go on
and not talk about Dolly and her impact on them.
It would be very, and I also think any human being who doesn't know who Dolly
is, you know, Dolly Parton.
But for me, I always like to say that I met Dolly Parton and Jesus at the same time.
Because I was around four or five years old. I was really thinking about this
last night before we did this episode.
And how I was introduced to Dolly Parton was from Dolly had two variety shows on television,
her first one was in 1976 and her second one was in 1987 and that's the one
that most people remember but the one in 1976 would have put me in kindergarten
around four or five years old,
and it was,
they did syndication different back then.
So she, you know, it was probably on even after that, even though it was only one season long.
You probably re-ran after that because I remember watching, it felt like for
years, but, you know, my parents were responsible. So I had a bedtime at four
or five years old, but I do distinctly remember hearing that.
Her voice and it should have been sleeping but i wasn't and so i would get up,
my sister slept through it but i would get up and i would wait in my doorway
because i would hear her sing um,
the the soundtrack for her first show dolly was love is like a butterfly,
though funnily enough is not the song that uh i called the butterfly song when
i was a child because, you know, I was a brilliant child and my parents started
saving up for college almost immediately.
So I would sit there and my mom made the best stovetop popcorn,
just the best in my family to this day, even though she's gone,
they would talk about it.
And so she would make stovetop popcorn and her and daddy would sit and watch Dolly's Variety Show.
And so I would smell the popcorn and I would sit in my doorway of the bedroom
and which I we lived in a small ranch so you know I could be seen and I would
just sit there until mommy would wave me over so I could sit with them.
Eat popcorn and watch Dolly Parton on television,
so Dolly serenaded you yes right out of bed okay right right out of bed you
know um I'd probably not every week but um enough that I had this very vivid memory.
And then she would end the show by singing with her famous signature in the background.
The dolly with the butterflies. And wildflowers all around her.
Which is also another one of her songs. And to this day, it's why I love butterflies
and wildflowers. It's my favorite thing.
And she would play, I will always love you. She would sing, I will always love you.
And that's the one I called the butterfly song because that's where I saw the
big signature with the butterfly in the background.
And my parents never corrected me.
As a child, they never corrected me. I'd be like, she's going to sing the butterfly song, you know? And,
so I have this love of butterflies my entire life,
and Dolly Parton. And it was around that time that we started regularly,
that I remember regularly going to church.
So and building my idea, my image as a child of Jesus.
So I, all my life, I feel like outside of Jesus and my parents,
the person I modeled who I wanted most to be,
was as a human being.
I wanted to be funny like her. I wanted to be kind like her.
Was Dolly Parton, who was the most beautiful woman to me was Dolly Parton.
Um, so, uh, and not just because of her actual beauty, because I know I don't look like Dolly Barton.
Um, I've never wanted blonde hair or anything.
Um, but it's just, I, I, I wanted to be like her.
I wish I could sing and play instruments and be as talented as her.
Um, I can't do any of those things, but, um, Yeah, you just said it right there,
that Dolly showed us how to be beautiful inside and out.
Yeah, I wanted that kindness.
My mother was someone like her, too, was very kind and generous.
And I mean, the thing that, you know, my mom taught me was unconditional love
and kindness. And, you know.
And Dolly, my daddy, taught me humor a lot of times.
And that's and again, Dolly and I are from we're both from the Appalachian Mountains.
Hers is East Tennessee. Mine is East Kentucky.
So we we also had that in common. So that was also, you know,
you know, Dolly going to Dollywood was a much bigger deal and going to the Smokies.
In Pigeon Forge, which we used to jokingly call Hillbilly Las Vegas,
was something that, you know, it was a big deal.
And, you know, that there's a good vacation that you had if you could have one.
So those are all special kind of memories, but just part of my formation as a child as well.
How old were you when you started learning more about, like,
her philanthropic side when she started to do other things?
I was in—I remember being in my youth group and them talking about that.
So it was in church that we would hear about those things.
Because I was active in—you know, I do joke about how I was raised.
But, you know, I was raised in three types of Baptists, but my main church was
a Southern Baptist church,
and I was very active in, like, their youth leadership and their youth groups
and, you know, warriors of, you know, Christ, I'm in the Lord's army and that kind of thing.
And it was, you know, those things were talked about.
And because she was upheld as a woman who lives Christ's mission.
You know, and of course would never want to lead. But did missionary work?
Because that was okay. And she was a local missionary, an idea of a missionary
and things that you can do from home.
Yeah, I think that her actions and her nonprofits and just the ways that she
reaches out to different communities and a bunch of different and unique ways.
Can kind of show that connection to the gospel already. um,
and you know if to think about not necessarily not the gospels but one of paul's epistles in romans um,
a verse a couple verses that that were picked out that kind of can show this
um is i think really kind of resonates with dolly's attitude and actions,
love one another with mutual affection outdo one another in showing honor and
contribute to the needs of the state saints extend hospitality to strangers
i feel like there maybe weren't too many strangers in dolly's life i feel like,
um the upbringing that she came up in and just the the very real and down-to-earth
struggles that she was a part of um,
poverty and even like physical attributes and you know what she wanted to look
like and what she wanted to be like when she grew up and what her community
saw as socially acceptable for a woman, um,
all of that stuff really kind of made her into someone who was very accepting,
not just accepting, not just tolerant of people who are different, but really celebrating,
the, the, the many colors that God paints with and the many different,
you know, scenes and things that we have in this world, um.
When this verse says outdo one another in showing honor, I think that she really
lived that and not in kind of a competitive way, but just in a,
you know, maybe like a personal best, maybe like in a PR way that she just was
always trying to do more and reach more.
And just in a very loving and creative and embracing way, just wanting,
to really truly show the wide brushstrokes that we can see in this world if
we just give time to look and give time to pay attention,
to others around us and to what we can contribute to the world through how we are blessed.
Yeah, she, you know, when people talk about how, you know, What does she want
people to think about her, you know?
Or to, you know, see her as, you know, you know, of course things would come
up about how she looked or,
even, you know, they would talk about her talent and, you know,
because she would get her hands and other things and it just wouldn't be the music business.
And it often would end with her saying, I want to be seen as a kind and caring person.
And nobody was surprised when they would hear her talk like that.
Because she just genuinely was, you know. She's so authentic. Yes.
I think that would be a great word to describe her as well. I mean, I think you got Dolly.
Well, in fact, this is what Jane Fonda said about her when working with her
on 9 to 5. And she says, you want to get Dolly?
You got Dolly. You know, what you see is what you get, no matter where you are.
That's Dolly. You might not think you're seeing her, but you are.
You know, and you see and you hear her through her music.
You know, there's the words that they talk about.
You know, you hear somebody might be a storyteller. Well, she called herself a song teller.
You know, she wrote over 3,500 songs And She.
Often would talk about her own experiences. The funny parts about it is some of the songs she wrote,
sound really like, oh, you know, they'd be a heartbreak song or they would be like two doors down.
It's one of the funniest stories ever of why she actually wrote that song.
It sounds like there's a party going on and she's heartbroken and she,
you know, finds somebody and, you know, and all this other stuff when you think
about that song it's about chicken.
Okay she was on a terrible diet and,
uh it's it's um guys are too young to know what optifast is but it's what um
oprah lost her first weight and the big weight loss on was um it was and it's
just you have to drink shakes you don't eat food,
and she was on this terrible diet and then her she She was on tour,
and her and the bands went through their favorite town, and.
There's a chicken joint that they all loved to go to, and their ritual was they
would go, and they'd get a bunch of things, and one of her favorite things,
on the menu was chicken, and they had fried clams, and everybody,
they would just get all this food when they came to town, and then they would
go up to their hotel floor,
and they'd party and eat and fellowship and have a good time and drink and all this stuff and,
they were so they all did that like they always do every time they went through
this town is go through and get their big order of food and stuff and she had to go back to her room,
and drink her shake,
and she was miserable because they're all down there eating and drinking and
having a good time and eating at their absolute favorite place to eat,
And so they're laughing and singing and having a party. And she can't eat her chicken and clams.
And what is the song? What's the name of the song? It's the Dwarves Down.
I have to look that one up.
That's awesome. They're laughing and singing and having a party. Just two Dwarves Down.
And they're not aware that I'm around. Those are the lyrics.
And it sounds like she goes and finds a guy. and then they go off and stuff
like that. So it sounds like this really great, you know, fun party song.
And she's actually, she wrote it that in the hotel room where they're having chicken.
Maybe the guy she found was a chicken leg where she decided Optifast wasn't
the way she was going to do things anymore.
That's what the song is about. It's on chicken and fried clams.
That's awesome. So, I mean, and it's one of her biggest hits.
And every time you know.
And so every time i mean it's funny every time we hear this song scott changes the words,
i wish i had chicken and you know he's just you know it's just now that you
know the story you can't unhear it but it's it's great she always and it's funny she always has these um.
You know, these tales about, you know, what happens and why she wrote the song.
And sometimes it's from heartbreak, you know, or just a memory from childhood, which she has plenty of.
And, you know, I will always love you.
You know, she wrote for Porter Ragnar. You know, Ollie, there's so much behind
it because she's often, her songs are about telling a story.
There's a reason she does it.
And she gave us that gift. She was always, she shared so much of herself always.
You know what other gifts that she was able to share is the gift of literacy.
And so when she passed and all of the beautiful, amazing ministries came out,
the stories and things that she did, I had no idea about the Imagination Library.
And I didn't know it existed, especially to that scale.
And I was reading that, so when a child gets signed up for receiving books throughout
their life, and when the child ages out, a letter is sent to the child, right?
And I'm going to read the letter that is sent to them.
So they receive a final letter from her, hoping, I read this,
you know, in a news story, Sorry.
Hoping that they would have a great time in school and urging them to keep reading.
And so the letter ends with, you and all of your friends are very special.
There's no limit to what you can do or how far you can go.
Just remember the lessons my family taught me. Dream big.
Dream big dreams. Learn everything you can and learn and care for all those who care for you.
You do all of these things and you can be anyone you want to be you are terrific
and remember i will always love you signed dolly,
Can you imagine growing up as a child and then one day having that? Yeah.
What if you're like, mom frames it, and then one day you go,
look what I got from Dolly Parton.
Yeah, it's,
yeah, she started the library because her father couldn't read or write.
And so she started it back in her hometown of Sevier County.
Which is, the town is Sevierville, which is right outside of Pigeon Forge in Tennessee.
And it was just this, you know, beautifully simple idea, you know,
get books into the hands of children from birth to age five.
And it started there, and now it's global.
You know.
And yes, you see, I, I love that you brought in that letter.
I, I had never heard the letter before. Um, but I love that.
It's not just like some book club, right? It's not just some scholastic book
meet where you can go and you get, you know, Dolly credits or whatever.
It's, it's sent in the mail to this child. It becomes a very personal connection,
a way that like a child can feel honored and feel seen and feel dignity before
they know what any of that is,
from this program that reaches out to them directly.
And I think that's another way that we kind of can bring in the connection of,
our relationship to Jesus and our relationship to one another is that the more personal and the more,
intimate we make it, the more that it's going to have an impact,
the more authentic it's going to be instead of just like, you know,
here's this, you're just a number on a list.
Here's this, here's this, you know, random thing that I've checked off a list
that I've done this, you know, it's this letter that you can hold and keep and remember.
And these really important words, especially if these children,
you know, are lacking anything in their lives, be it, you know,
emotional or educational, or even in their own family of origin.
This was a way for them to get kind of this nourishment that otherwise wouldn't be there.
Yeah, it created community. It created connectedness at one minute, right?
And I just think she just had, she transcended all genders, all socioeconomic levels.
Music threads, right? Another thing that came out in the news is the letter
that she wrote to Eminem congratulating him on getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
And they never met, but she wrote something similar in a similar letter saying,
you are amazing, you're brilliant, keep on doing what you're doing,
and I will always love you, right?
And so I think that that is so gospel-focused, right?
That's what we're called to do as Christians. I mean, what does Eminem have
to do with Dolly Parton, right? But she transcended the divide, and she reached out.
She did that for children you know across the globe and so how can I just think
it's just beautiful that,
that's a long-term commitment of hers to continue to build that relationship
on an individual level right and so we could learn so much from her on,
that ministry and I think about you know as we get started and continue on with
our ministries how does that,
how can we get our churches our communities to think differently,
right to have that paradigm shift that Dolly encouraged and pushed us to do, to have that dignity,
and to be curious, right?
And to be able to connect with one another.
Well, I mean, she shows that, you know, good news is practical.
You know, you can make it practical. It could arrive in the mailbox just by
showing that you're part of the same community that they're in.
It doesn't have to be, you know, you're making it about, like she made it about
the kids and they were getting, you know, something in the mail for them.
But you're also showing them, through the good news, that children are full
members of the body of Christ. And they matter.
And that they, yeah, they matter. They're not just these little props and,
look, we have kids in the church. We're a growing church.
No, they member. They're, you know, they're the image of God, too.
And they're whole little human beings. They're just smaller,
But they have their own personhood And they have their own You know Autonomy,
As little people You know as the little kids So yeah And she saw that,
They all felt like they had an Aunt Dolly,
And that's kind of how.
Her ministry, her outreach, her charity just reached into ordinary rhythm of life, you know.
Most homes, you know, have children. They raise them up.
And that's where stories are formed. And that's where everyday life is lived.
And it's this real earthy kind of,
connection. This, you know, bringing dignity to what is ordinary or what is
sometimes overlooked and not as held in such high regard as a miracle that it truly can be.
And, you know, raising children and, you know, surviving hardship is definitely
a miracle that we need to hold in really high esteem.
And it takes a village.
And we need a lot of Aunt Dolly's to be a part of that conversation, right? Absolutely.
Which, you know, and we'll go back to culture That's how you're raised You know,
in the Appalachian culture Not everybody knows that But you are,
you know Southern culture and Appalachian culture may overlap sometimes But
they also can be quite different And I know specifically as somebody who was raised in that culture,
That she's just expanding Some of the things that she was taught As one of 12 children.
You know That's why her family was a part of everything she did,
They worked for her They worked with her.
So speaking of that, Appalachia, in 2016, there was wildfires.
And Dee Dee, so one of the stories that you share about is how Dolly showed
up for her community, how she showed up for her neighbors after this wildfire
that ravaged communities.
Can you share a little bit more about that?
Yeah, the My People Fund.
And Sevier County was hit by a wildfire in 2016, and it devastated the county.
And what she did was—and that's a place that Dolly still calls home, Sevier County—and.
And it wasn't just some, you know, random, you know, kind of abstract.
It was the land, the mountains were, you know, were harmed, the families, the communities.
They were all, you know, quite devastated. And people lost their homes.
Dollywood, you know, had damage.
But it was really the community, you know, businesses shut down.
There was a loss of stability. You know, they lost the things that make your
life feel like life. They lost everything.
They lost their ability to work. They lost, you know, where they could live,
you know, the belongings.
And so Dolly and the Dollywood Foundation, which is a big part of Dollywood,
created the My People Fund.
And they offered direct monthly assistance to the families whose primary homes,
had been destroyed or were no longer habitable.
And it wasn't just a one-time thing.
A lot of people don't know that it was a sustained monthly stipend that they
received to get through that season.
And then they had a final payout once everything was kind of rebuilt for them
to go ahead and, you know, kind of boost them into getting back into life.
And that was sustained until everything, until the insurance is paid out and
they could, you know, get up and get out and get going until,
you know, FEMA was there.
And so between all of that, they were also getting supplemented by this fund
from Dolly and Dollywood to help them, you know, through this hardship.
Yeah, again, Christianity, evangelism in action, right? That,
in real time, Dolly acted upon a crisis, right? And noticed that what people
needed. And it wasn't just like a one-time thing. It was sustainment. And.
To give people the ability to maybe breathe and figure out what to do next and,
to sit in that space of grief of, right, they lost everything.
That's, yeah, I only wish that,
you know, I came from nonprofit management and that's part of the challenges,
about poverty across the world, the globe, right, is one-time fees.
But how do you sustain people to help get back on their feet,
right? And it sounds like that's what her intent was.
She doesn't leave people hanging. She did the same thing.
She found out in Sevier County that high schools weren't graduating kids.
You know, the kids weren't making it to graduation. So she funded another program,
specifically that if they graduate, they would get paid to graduate,
from this fund and get a substantial, anybody who graduated.
So guess what happened?
People stayed in school. Yeah, they graduated. When they graduated,
and it shot pretty much, I mean, like, they were graduating like 15, 20 percent,
and it shot up to almost 100 percent. Kids stayed in school.
And this raises, you know, this is, we're obviously talking about education
here and we're talking about something in the public sector.
But this raises a great question for our Christian communities.
And that is, how do we meet people where they genuinely have the need and to
do that with dignity and to give them kind of.
The connective tissue and the structure to continue on with the life and the,
offering that their community gives the world instead of doing things that kind
of limit them or that cripple their own growth.
And I think that she was really acutely aware of that.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, how often do helping programs as well as the—and the
church participates in this as well. Let's call it a dollar.
You know, we make them prove their pain.
Do you meet this need? Do you meet, you know, this limit?
Do you have to repeat their story over and over? Do you expect a certain kind
of gratitude? Well, you can come in and eat, but after that,
you've got to go to service first.
Or you're going to stay around for service. Do we attach strings, you know, to our help?
I mean, you know, come on in and eat and then walk out happy.
You know, there's no obligations here, you know, or do we take the time to remember
that every person has dignity?
You know, even in the middle of
loss. And both those examples show us that Dolly, that's what Dolly did,
is she saw there was a problem and she fixed it without ever taking away from
anybody's autonomy, anybody's dignity.
She just stepped in and helped as the need rose.
Yeah, and it doesn't feel like it was very, it was a performative, right?
Because after all the news crews left and everything, as CeCe was saying,
she continued to give and she continued to offer that sustaining help past when
it was sensationalized.
And so, you know, how is it then that we as Christians who want to bring,
the same good news to communities all over the world, either ones that we are
ourselves a part of or we're a part of, or communities that are completely different
than us, how do we show up after that first, you know, that hero moment, you know, that,
one big gesture and instead just be a sustaining force like Jesus was to the community around him?
And he kept going he was he's just kept showing up.
Exactly exactly yeah she would just you know I mean these programs went on for
years and you know it wasn't in a constant news cycle.
Yeah.
She was not looking for fame, that's for sure, from her philanthropy.
No, and it's not like she didn't have fame, but she never sought it, you know?
But there was, you know, plenty to be sought for her all the time, you know?
But it just was just a natural part of who she was. You never knew,
if you're in Tennessee, you never knew when she would just show up, you know?
That's awesome And it was also apparent in how she Related to and interacted
with Other people and individuals In the entertainment industry And she always,
And she always Lifted them up.
You know, she was never,
you know, she was never stingy about that. She was never, you know,
if they deserved credit for something, I would watch her perform because she
would perform with other, you know, she performed with, you know,
famously, you know, one of my favorite albums and continues.
And there were a couple of albums, you know, which is Linda Rodstatt and Emily
Harris, the trio albums.
And she, you know, was always generous with, you know, having their part In fact, she was,
Linda Ronstadt was often, when she premiered at the Opry It was Dolly Parton
that was out there as her biggest cheerleader She's the one who introduced her She was the one that,
you know, was the biggest cheerleader in her corner When nobody knew who she
was And we got Linda Ronstadt from that.
And, of course, you know, I would watch her sing with Tammy Wynette and Loretta Lynn.
And, you know, they always had their moments to shine, you know.
And, you know, Dolly takes over a stage when she walks out, but you wouldn't
know it when she, you know, everybody else is there.
And it just, you know, her collaborations with others always just showed.
And that, to me, is just another marker of how humble she was just genuinely.
And I've never been around her to really know her presence, but just to watch
her, you would see Christ in her.
It wasn't always the rhinestones that glittered.
And shown, in my opinion.
So connecting our theology and reflection here, I think we could look at Deuteronomy, right?
There's a Deuteronomy chapter 15, chapter 15, verse 7 through 8.
If there is among you anyone in need, do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted
toward your needy neighbor.
You should rather open your hand.
I love that scripture. I love that it doesn't say, first decide whether your
neighbor has earned help.
It just says open your hand. Don't be miserly. Don't harden your heart.
And ask, what have you done to pull yourself up by your bootstraps first?
Which, by the way, is nowhere in the Bible.
It doesn't say that. No, no, it doesn't. I mean, even when that was initially,
used as a cliché, it was ironic.
That's not a thing that you can do. And so it was meant to say,
you know, ask for help. Yeah.
You were supposed to help those who need help first, you know,
and if you're able to work, work. And one of the reasons you do that is to support the ones who can't.
That's all that meant. the scripture they like to use for that.
So one of the things that I find interesting about Dolly's professional history is,
her, you know, role in royalties. And like you said, Dee Dee giving other people credit.
I know that you had mentioned her first Variety show. There's kind of an interesting backstory about,
her help for the gentleman that she started out with, the one that she saw as
her mentor, and she wrote the song I Will Always Love You and performed it on
her last time on that show.
That also kind of goes forward into her future as well with Miss Whitney Houston.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Tell us a little bit more about that. Um,
that's a story that always sticks with me. The funniest thing is always when
people discover that Whitney Houston isn't the original person to sing that song.
Um, I do go down rabbit holes and watch people react to I Will Always Love You
for the first time, um, with Dolly singing it.
They're like, she wrote this song? Yes, she did.
And not only that, she, you know, as I said before, she wrote that for Porter
Wagner because she felt it was time to leave and she wanted him to know that
he meant what he meant to her. And...
When the first person to ask to sing it was Elvis Presley, by the way,
side note, was Elvis Presley.
I thought that he was the original, yeah.
Yeah, he was the first one to ask to sing it, but Colonel Parker would only
allow Elvis to sing other people's songs if Elvis got the full rights to it.
And so, though it broke her heart because she would have loved to hear him sing
it, she said no, because it's her song.
And it's a good thing she did um and so it um the other people's have sung like
she said there's so many versions of it out there others have sung it um but
Whitney asked for it for the bodyguard and um,
the movie with her and Kevin Costner and it was,
her version is absolutely beautiful It's different. It's beautiful.
And she made quite a bit of money on royalties for that.
What's not known is that she used the money from those royalties to invest in,
a predominantly Black neighborhood in Nashville.
So I don't want to overstate it or act like this one action solves any kind of...
Solves any kind of the systemic harm, because it doesn't.
But I do see it as a concrete question for all of us when we talk about this,
when we're talking about the good news and the gospel, is when we benefit from
other people's gifts and labor.
Or culture, what do we do with that.
I think, you know, we're talking about all the wonderful things that Dolly does or Dolly did.
I'm still having a really hard time with that, guys.
Y'all know I took to my bed for a couple of days. Um, so, but it,
but when you do, what, what do you do with that benefit? And it's, um,
Something that we should think about, you know, because I do think that she
often, her acts of the gospel, did bring up some of these types of questions.
Yeah, and I mean, this is a really important way to think, especially as a church.
You know, I just recently got back from a trip to Australia,
and they are really, really big on land acknowledgement, which is great.
And I've even sat in Episcopal services where there's land acknowledgement,
especially in churches when I visit back home in Oklahoma.
But as a citizen of the Muscogee Nation, I have to ask myself, and then what?
Do you buy art from the local artists? When you say that this land belonged
to these people, do you say anything about the people?
That was one of the things that while I was, I was in a very urban setting,
to be fair. And so there was a lot of different cultures, but I didn't,
it didn't seem that I saw a lot.
Yeah, because I asked you that question specifically when we talked.
Yeah. While you were there.
You know, I asked if you had a chance to talk with any of the indigenous.
And it might just be that I was in a very, you know, commercial part of a very urban setting.
And, you know, that is that is what it is. You know, you do see kind of a mix
of conglomeration and there might have been some stores and there was one gallery
of Aboriginal art. It wasn't open the time that I had to go and see it.
And so that was kind of disappointing. But but yeah, it just it makes me wonder
what can we do as a church, as a community community?
To do more than just acknowledge, yeah, we've benefited from this land.
We've benefited from these people who were here before us.
So then how do we give back without.
Again, without it being performative or without it being,
just like that initial, like, look at what's happening. Here's a spotlight.
Here's a camera. Okay, now we're done. Now we've checked a box.
Yeah. Yeah, it's something that we have, you know, we were, I think we were
quite blessed at Bexley Seabury,
because they do have a very strong indigenous program there.
And we had Dr. Mary Christ with us,
for so long and got to benefit from her knowledge as well, as,
you know, our cohort had you, too, to help us with all of that.
But you're right, you know, churches, we have resources, we have property,
we have investments, and we have influence, but we also have a dark history.
Um, so we have to ask who, who has helped make our success possible.
How do we share the gifts of God for the people of God? Right.
Who has been, how do we do that? Cause who has been excluded from ownership
and leadership and opportunity?
So does our money stay inside our own comfort or does it move toward repair?
And I think this was a very,
For Dali, this is a great example,
of that.
Not just for us human beings, but it's absolutely an example the church can follow. Yeah.
So let's reflect on this theologically, and I think that we could look towards
Leviticus chapters 19 verses 9 through 10.
So when it says, when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap
to the very edges of your field.
You shall leave them for the poor and the alien.
Yeah and i think i think there's i think there's more here than to just say
you know oh i'm i'm throwing scraps right this is this means that,
i think not only there needs to be room for for actual nourishment but the nourishment
of the truth right and the truth is is that where something is planted,
something else had to have been there.
And I think the whole not going to the edges means an understanding that those
edges are kind of superficial.
And we are not only making room at those edges, but we need to make room at
the table where the harvest comes to.
And this is where we can kind of show love and give back to and be very grateful
for things that were given to us and we were blessed with that had nothing to do with our own,
savvy or our own abilities.
It was truly a gift from God, either through the land or through others or through
the work of others or through infrastructure that has been there for a long time. Wow.
Yeah, another way that Dali showed us how to step into this space of being Christian
and ethical evangelism is how,
something that's especially important to Emissary's renewal is when we learn
that something we have said, something we have said or done,
or supported has caused one of our siblings in Christ harm.
And it was really really poignant for me to learn that she that dolly changed
the name of one of her shows at dollywood dixie stampede to dolly parton's stampede,
and she she used the word dixie because that's the the environment that she
grew up in in the south um and as part of the attraction's name and so,
but she when she learned that that word is associated with confederacy and slavery and it's carried,
heavy pain and suffering with it,
she changed it, right? She changed the name.
Right. And she didn't put herself at the center of that change.
The change wasn't about her reputation. The change was about how it related
to other people and other people's experience and the communities that were
very much harmed with this sort of terminology.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I...
I see what you're saying. She called it like an innocent ignorance.
Was her phrase. And I think that is something we hold carefully.
Not knowing explains why a person did something, but it doesn't mean there is
no responsibility once you learn.
And again, look, she's a person who did something about it.
You know, she's a perfect example, actually, in both of these cases of how to
take responsibility, in my opinion.
And I get that people see me as biased, but am I wrong here?
She said, you know, once you realize something is a problem,
you fix it. It's like a no-brainer.
And it's that simple, right? Like, acknowledge. I did something wrong.
I acknowledge and I want to be better.
Right. Because, you know, church people or actually people in general can get very defensive.
You know, like, well, I didn't know. I didn't know.
When someone says something like that hurt me or that tradition excludes me.
And I don't think your first reaction should be, but we didn't mean it.
My bad. I'm sorry. How could I make it better? Right.
Yeah. You know, while your intention matters, I think that comes through when
you say, you know, that impact, that the impact of what they said matters, too.
And that, you know, I thank you for letting me know.
You know, this is the connotation of the word repentance.
And this is what the the practical use of that word is you know this is not
just about emotions this is about,
this is a turning point this is a place where we get the privilege,
of of amending our actions acknowledging what they've done and growing from
what we what we know now as john the Baptist calls us to do in Luke 3.8.
He says, bear fruits worthy of repentance. And I think that can be kind of a
weird sentence to pick apart.
But John the Baptist was also a weird guy to pick apart. But I think that it
just simply means that we're willing to look at our past words and our actions,
and grow from them instead of cling to them.
We don't have to have that fixed mindset that says, oh, well,
I was taught this way, so it has to be right because that's what I was taught.
Well, no, we're all growing as human beings. It's why law is a practice.
That's why medicine is a practice, and that's why religion is a practice.
We are constantly becoming better and getting closer to that pure love that God is.
And that's okay. That doesn't make us awful. That makes us human.
And it makes us worthy of changing for the better.
Yeah. And if we say we're sorry without acknowledging or understanding why we're
sorry and then making a change to change that behavior, right?
And it's empty. It's empty apologies.
It's I apologize. I'm sorry. I said and did something.
I was not aware. and or maybe I was and I act you know,
I it was not my intense but this is why I'm sorry and this is how I'm going
to fix it and this is why I'm gonna not do it ever again hopefully not right,
and so we have to step to that vulnerability and that humility of saying,
I am with you in this and I never intended to hurt your feelings or say or do
things right and I want to change new I want to repent and be a better person, be a better Christian.
And that's what forgiveness is, right?
We are able to forgive ourselves and forgive one another and step into that.
And she did it, of course, with grace, right? She called herself innocent,
arrogant, innocent, ignorance, right? And she also said, I was being an ass.
I'm so, you know, moving on. This is what I'm going to do, right?
And so I think that we can take.
Heed some of her grace in that and to be able to step into that vulnerable space
to change a course of maybe that might be.
Disheartening to others. And so I think the church can learn quite a bit from this, right?
What can church leaders do to walk away from those decisions and to step into,
a space of grace and love and light because nobody's perfect, right?
We're humans and that's the whole narrative of the Bible, right?
But it's what we do with the knowledge that helps us to be better Christians.
It's all about what we do with the knowledge. It's not about receiving the knowledge.
It's how, you know, you receive the knowledge.
If you need to repent of the knowledge, which is simply what?
To turn around. To do something about it.
If you have to repair, you repair. If you have to reconcile, you reconcile.
You know, it's not about making excuses. It's not about hiding.
It's not about being defensive.
It so um and once you do that you just,
change the behavior you turn around and you change you fix it you change it's
it's what you do and you do that as a human being,
and that's all you are as a christian is as a human being walking like christ.
And you're going to fail at it, because we are human, but then you just get back up and try again.
So, I guess that's the preachiest way I know how to say it.
She was just so full of grace.
Grace, humor, beauty. We, you know, we were given a great example through her. Right.
I used to have Princess Diana up there on the pedestal of grace,
but Dolly was, not to say that nothing, Princess Diana is full of grace, right?
But Dolly showed us, demonstrated, and it was, yes, it's so,
yeah, she will be missed.
But it's, you know, what we can, what, how we can honor her memories,
how we can step into that, right?
What would Dolly do? Yeah.
I've been doing it most of my life. so now i know that i i'm the new kid on
the block but here at emissaries um we have the slsa,
and i i think that this maybe kind of fits into that us talking about how we
repent and and what that kind of looks like,
i could say it yeah i um so,
you know it's you know slsa is kind of like The model we use with our everyday
ethical evangelism, which is we seek, we be curious about the history and the
impact our words and practices.
We listen, we believe people when they tell us something has harmed them. So.
Speak, respond honestly and humbly without making excuses, without being defensive.
And act, which is, you know, the reconciliation. We change the name,
the policy, the budget, the practice, the behavior.
I guess whatever needs changing. So, yeah, it absolutely can fit into that model,
in so many ways. But this absolutely, you're correct.
Yeah, I think that that is really that is discipleship, right?
That is us as students. That is us learning and following, which kind of that
brings me back to talking about Dolly's faith a little bit.
You know, she she she never was shy about the fact that she came from a Christian background. Yeah.
Which is kind of something that could have made her not as mainstream and could
have maybe affected how she was seen by others.
You know, throughout the years, it's come in and out of popularity,
you know, being a person of faith.
Recently, because of all this, you know, we've got a lot of people chiding in
and doing spots on Dolly.
And I kind of just want to give a little bit of a shout out to Mockingbird,
which is another great platform that talks about grace in the gospel.
And they have a great podcast and they also have emails that they send out and
they have publications that you can also subscribe to.
But recently, after Dolly's passing, they quoted and did a run on an article
on Russell Moore's piece in Christianity Today.
And I just want to bring some quotes to life out of this, because I think it
really speaks to what Dolly really focused on and what meant a lot to her.
They say, Parton knew some people would find lots of things about her embarrassing and uncultured.
Her accent, her appearance, her background in mountain poverty,
her religion rooted in Southern revivalism.
What made her different is what she did without awareness, and that was to avoid
even the slightest bit of impersonating shame or resentful defensiveness.
They go on to say, what made Parton different is that she was unashamed,
but she was not shameless.
She could laugh about herself because she knew what mattered to her and what
didn't i mean i think that when we remember dolly physically we see this very um.
Very intentional and very entertaining presence.
Very gorgeous woman, right? And a lot of what I've seen about people talking
about her is like, isn't it funny that someone so beautiful and someone so physically striking,
is still remembered by thousands of people.
By her charity work and by her grace in interviews and how she represented and
hold dear Inheld's face for not only the people,
of her own culture and community that were looked down on, but also other minorities,
the queer community, the Black
community, as we talked about with what she did with her royalties from,
Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You.
You know, she knew what was important, and she also still had fun with who God made her to be.
And because she knew what was important and she had her focus in what was helpful
and what was truly life-giving, that is what shines today as her legacy.
She had said, I found this quote in an ABC broadcast.
That I just really, it just brings a smile to my face. She said,
I've created this and played it up to make up this whole persona,
but this isn't all I am. It's not even most of what I am.
Hopefully people can see beneath and i think that that's just like it's it's
not a fear i think i hear this as a prayer and it's so beautiful as someone
who didn't know her personally to see this answered prayer,
to see that yeah hon this is this is what people saw and this is what they remember
and i just think that that is just such a blessing and just an astronomical um.
Message to what she what she really was to all of us,
and she talked about wanting people to be treated well right and and you mentioned
including our lgbtq plus siblings in christ and,
and i think that's probably i i think i pray,
she grew up on the fringes right she was the most marginalized And she never forgot that.
And so she wanted to make sure that everyone was treated equally,
that they had access to things. And she never forgot where she came from, right?
And I think that's so beautiful. And that's what we're called to do as Christians.
And that is how she showed people to experience the Christian language,
right? That is ethical evangelism at its center core and heart,
right? That's like the keystone of it.
Yeah.
When it wasn't, when it was really lifted down upon, well, still marginalized as a queer person.
But, you know, through the 80s and the 90s, especially with the AIDS epidemic,
which a lot of people don't like to talk about or have already kind of moved on from, but I was there.
So it's different for me. Um,
and, you know, she was out still, she was outspoken,
and she was there for the community and so much so that a lot of people don't
know that her loyal driver through the years was a trans man.
And that she just called her friend John.
And he,
you know, and he worked for her for three, maybe four decades.
You know, and this isn't a well-known fact, but it's true.
And she just saw dignity everywhere she went. One of my favorite stories is
the time that she went to,
you know, she entered a gay drag show, lookalike contest, and lost.
And, you know, she just thought, well, this would be fun. I might actually win it. She didn't.
So, or she joked about the fact that if she wasn't born her, she'd be a drag queen.
You know uh to her it was just normal to love people,
and it's not something you know she never weaponized her faith,
you know and i've said this from the beginning in my life after deconstruction
you know what became clear to me is that you can have faith but it never has to be cruel,
you've never i've never had to dilute who Jesus was,
or pretend that Christian convictions don't matter.
And I've never had, but I don't have to use my faith as a weapon.
And so for ethical evangelism, it means that telling the truth about Jesus,
you can still honor sacred dignity, agency, and humanity of the person in front of you.
And I can do all of those things for myself As well,
And I would be lying if I didn't say that she's Always been one person to give me the courage to do that.
Yeah, as we reflect, I think that theologically we could look at Romans chapter 15, 7.
Welcome one another, therefore just as Christ has welcomed you for the glory of God.
Yeah, and I think that's how we can see that not only do we not have to weaponize
our faith, our faith isn't built to be weaponized. Our faith is supposed to
be the exact opposite. um,
my supervising priest gave a wonderful sermon today about how we aren't supposed
to be pointing fingers at each other that's not the catholic,
and apostolic church that that we believe in it's,
as christ welcomed us so if he welcomed me with all of my bumps and warts and and bruises is,
who am I to say anything about anyone else's regardless of how they worship
regardless of how they live their lives that's that's none of my business because
Christ welcomed me as I am,
with true love for who I am and that is what we're called to it's it's very
simple it's not always easy,
because the way that he put it, you know, there are some people who are a lot
more comfortable welcoming people from outside their church and they don't want
to sit too long with people in their church.
And there's people who are quite the opposite. They want to be there with the
people who are like them and don't want to be around others. And so...
Sometimes that's what makes it hard is because, you know, I can sit here and
be like, oh, well, I accept X, Y, and Z.
And I'm just not going to talk about how A, B, and C really grinds my gears.
But the fact of the matter is, is that love is truly for everyone,
no matter how wrong we think they are, how right we think that we are.
The fact of the matter is, is we don't have the answers and we're not doing
it right. Because again, it goes back to we are all human.
And and this is all just a practice and we're called not to have blinders on right.
So we picked out one last verse to kind of encapsulate what we've been talking
about and to go forth and spread love into the world.
Hopefully, it's empowering for us and we share this empowerment with you all.
So 1 John 3.18, Little children, let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action.
And today we have woven scriptures and reflections throughout this episode, but always we are,
still here with you to kind of come back to that scripture and to see how,
we bring it all home and gather as much as we can in what we were talking about.
And so in this reading, 1 John, he says, little children, let us love,
right? Not in word or speech, but in truth and action.
And so what does that mean for us today? What can we go forth and bring peace into the world, right?
I think that means that what we do matters.
It's not saying that what we say doesn't matter, because it also says that truth is what matters.
So we share our faith much like St.
Francis has been accredited as saying in all things preach the gospel and when
necessary use words you know it's Dolly's actions that we were talking about
mostly today her songs are beautiful but,
what she did to bring love in a very tangible way to the communities around her,
is what really brought Christ into the picture.
But words, spoken or unspoken, still need a body.
Love needs hands and feet. And so it looks like putting books into the hands of kids.
It looks like opening your hands when your neighbor is in crisis.
It looks like examining how your wealth and recognition and resources can then
turn into opportunities for other things like repair.
It looks like learning when someone tells you that you have caused harm and,
being willing to change that.
It looks like welcoming people without asking them to prove they deserve dignity.
And it looks like remembering that everyday evangelism, it's not just a speech
that we prepare. It's not just talking points.
It's showing up. It's the kind of life that we are building.
Valley Story gives us questions worth asking as Christians. Does our faith make more room for people?
Do our resources move toward people in need?
Can we learn and change from what we have done or said in our past?
And does our welcome look anything like the welcome of Jesus?
And do people encounter good news when they encounter us?
So friends thank you for joining us for this joyful rhinestone filled tender
very sparkling conversation,
we really do hope that it gives you permission to pay attention to places where
good news is already showing up in generosity humor repair imagination and also
gives you permission to bring it yourself with whatever creativity and workiness you might have,
We hope it challenges all of us, too. Good news is not something we only say.
It's something we practice.
So may we be people whose love has hands and feet.
May we have the courage to learn, the humility to change, the generosity to
share, and the joy to welcome.
And may our lives become good news in the places God has planted us.
So until next time, go in peace. And keep watching for renewal in the world around you.