Autism Dads Open Up: Marriage, Mental Health, and Raising a Child on the Spectrum

Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott turn the mic over to the other side of the partnership, welcoming their husbands, Eric and Steve, for a candid conversation about what it actually means to be the autism dad. Drawing from their research paper "Fathers as Secondary Caregivers for Autism Families," the four explore the emotional toll fathers absorb quietly, why dad-specific research is nearly nonexistent, how couples navigate disagreements over therapy choices, and why autism fathers often have no outlet for their stress. Honest, funny, and deeply relatable for any parent who has felt like the outside player in a two-person caregiving team.

Key Takeaways

• Research on autism fathers is sparse, and nearly every study ends with "more research is needed" -- a telling sign dads are still an afterthought.
• In autism support groups, women outnumber men roughly 4 to 1, leaving fathers with almost no peer community.
• Mothers tend to report stress tied to caregiving demands; fathers report stress tied to uncertainty about their role and conflicting feelings about their child.
• Fathers often withhold their own emotional struggles to avoid adding to an already-stretched partner -- deepening their isolation in silence.
• Financial strain in autism fathers correlates with depression, substance abuse, and elevated suicide risk, yet rarely gets named.
• Giving dads a defined, owned task -- music therapy, park runs, bike riding -- creates a meaningful role that does not require mirroring the primary caregiver's approach.
• Maternal gatekeeping, even when well-intentioned, can erode a dad's confidence and cut him off from forming his own relationship with the child.
• Proposing a timeline ("let's revisit in two weeks") is a more effective strategy than digging in when parents disagree on a therapeutic approach.
• The team mentality -- even when never said out loud -- is one of the strongest predictors of a couple staying together through the long haul of autism parenting.
• For single parents and two-parent households alike: county respite programs exist, and using them is not optional -- it is essential.

00:00 Teaser
01:00 Welcoming the husbands
02:13 Intro to the research paper
04:11 How fathers experience stress differently
05:38 The quinoa wars and reality checks
07:40 Maternal gatekeeping and dad confidence
09:17 Letting dads own their role without criticism
10:21 Wanting to know everything after diagnosis
12:54 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
14:03 The financial burden that falls on dads
15:03 Finding quiet time: sneaking home early
16:54 Jealousy over work life
17:30 The emotional burden
21:34 Fathers and the long game
23:17 "When we're gone"
27:29 Why fathers struggle to find support
29:08 Friends, empathy, and action
31:06 Moms must recognize dads lack of outlets
33:49 Isolation from friends and family
37:17 Scenario: professional ignores the secondary caregiver
38:23 IEP meetings: strong cop, crying cop
39:29 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies (MeRT read)
40:22 Scenario: parents can't agree on a therapy
41:12 Dads need their own relationship with the child
44:11 Highlights from the paper's to-do list
45:29 Building a team when you are doing it alone
46:10 Division-of-labor appendix from the paper
48:28 What to say to a dad who doesn't know where to start
49:42 Patience grows if you commit to it
50:13 Speed round: superpowers, deplore, and love
53:07 Closing and origin of the name Refrigerator Moms
54:03 Happy Father's Day; go read the paper

Creators and Guests

Guest

Julianna Scott

Guest

Kelley Jensen

What is Refrigerator Moms?

Born from 20 years of friendship, during which they navigated the trenches of autism parenting and advocacy, the Refrigerator Moms is Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott’s way of reaching out to parents waging the same battles they were.  Their purpose with this podcast is to clear the fog, silence the noise, and find a path through neurodivergence for parents that are stuck between bad choices. They tackle parenting topics such as mom guilt, tantrums, pathological demand avoidance, siblings, medication, comorbidities, social media, and much more. 

Kelley Jensen [0:00:00] We talk about autism moms all the time. Support groups, chats, resources. But what about the guys? What about the fathers? This episode is for them.
Julianna Scott [0:00:19] Welcome back to the Refrigerator Moms podcast, where we get honest about what it really means to be an autism parent. Parent. I'm Julianna. This is my co-host, Kelley. And today we have very special guests. We've talked a lot on this podcast about what it means to be an autism mom. Today we're turning the mic over to the other side of the partnership. Our husbands are here. I'm joined by my husband Steve, and Kelley is joined by her husband Eric.
Kelley Jensen [0:00:44] Howdy.
Julianna Scott [0:00:44] And we're going to have a conversation that doesn't happen nearly enough. What it actually feels like to be the dad, the secondary caregiver, the one who shows up, carries the financial weight, absorbs the stress, and still somehow ends up feeling like he's on the outside looking in. Refrigerator dads, welcome.
Kelley Jensen [0:01:00] Hello.
Steve [0:01:01] Hello.
Kelley Jensen [0:01:01] Good to have you here. Thanks for doing this. This is actually a continuation of an episode we did with the siblings, with Ethan and Rosalie, the glass child syndrome.
Julianna Scott [0:01:12] I've heard a lot about that since that episode.
Kelley Jensen [0:01:14] Yeah. And we want to take a brief pause. We are talking about dads.
Eric [0:01:19] I can't be a glass husband.
Kelley Jensen [0:01:21] You can be a good. You can be a glass.
Eric [0:01:23] Absolutely.
Kelley Jensen [0:01:24] We reference dads because that's our lived experience with you being the primary breadwinners and us being the primary caregivers. But this episode's really geared towards the secondary parents. So if that is your situation listening to this episode, it is for the person that is the primary breadwinner, if that's your situation.
Julianna Scott [0:01:43] And also in that same vein, we have, you know, we are in. We are still married to our spouses. We understand that is rare. Very. That is definitely rare in. In our special needs world. And we are grateful that we have you guys. And we totally give props to those who are doing it as a single parent, but that we're talking about our experience here with. With the dads in. In our homes.
Kelley Jensen [0:02:12] So.
Julianna Scott [0:02:13] Yeah. Welcome, you guys.
Kelley Jensen [0:02:14] Welcome.
Julianna Scott [0:02:14] Thank you. And first, we're going to start off, lay some groundwork. Maybe you guys knew this, the research. Shocking. I know. I'm the. Of course, of course. Gotta have the facts so it will not shock you.
Eric [0:02:27] You gotta follow the papers.
Julianna Scott [0:02:28] You gotta follow the papers. Yes. Oh, speaking of the papers.
Eric [0:02:31] Thank you.
Julianna Scott [0:02:32] Yes, absolutely.
Kelley Jensen [0:02:33] What a pro.
Julianna Scott [0:02:35] I know.
Kelley Jensen [0:02:35] This is our latest paper. It's called Fathers as Secondary Caregivers for Autism Families. You can find it on our website, refrigeratormoms.com. Thank you for the plug.
Julianna Scott [0:02:46] So go to the website to do the deep dive into the research. I'm going to give you.
Eric [0:02:51] Well, I will give you guys props right now. I mean, that's your guys research and your papers that are phenomenal. I mean, I think it really puts you guys above the level of autistic moms and or parents. I'm very impressed.
Julianna Scott [0:03:07] Well, thank you. And we're doing what a lot of parents are doing, Googling at night, looking for the research. And we're just trying to help those who are coming after us to kind of do a little shortcut and go to our paper. This is a good place to start. But what you got to know about the dads is that we have, you know, the moms have, we have the support groups. But even when dads have support groups or there are support groups, women are outnumbering men about 4 to 1 in those spaces for support. So the other thing is, when I was doing the research is there's not a lot of research about dads. And the research I did find usually at the end would say more research is needed. So it's like every single one, more research is needed. So that is a massive indicator of how kind of an afterthought the dads can be.
Kelley Jensen [0:04:00] And that's men's mental health in general. It's a conversation that is very slowly changing, but too slowly, in our humble opinion. And so thank you for doing your part to step up.
Julianna Scott [0:04:10] Yep.
Kelley Jensen [0:04:11] Right.
Julianna Scott [0:04:11] So as secondary caregivers, you guys are typically the ones who contribute to the financial stability, the household management and supporting the primary caregiver. And you're usually doing the things that the primary caregiver delegates to you guys in managing our kids. So the other thing we, the mothers are reporting stress tied to the caregiving. Fathers report stress tied to the conflicting feelings about the child and the uncertainty about their own role. Does that resonate?
Steve [0:04:46] I felt stress for a number of reasons. One was I didn't want to do or not do anything that could limit our son's ultimate development. And I also felt like you were doing such a great job and you were struggling as we raised our son. I did not want to do anything that made it harder for you. So I took it upon myself and to try and support you in any way I could and try and make sure that I did not do anything to make it harder on you.
Julianna Scott [0:05:21] Yeah, well, thank you, number one.
Eric [0:05:26] I hope I tried to do that, but I don't know if I did.
Kelley Jensen [0:05:30] You absolutely did. You absolutely did. You absolutely did.
Eric [0:05:33] I mean, I'm all those same things, but I don't know if I was there. I. Hopefully I was.
Kelley Jensen [0:05:38] Oh, absolutely. And you know, the one thing I always remember is that we were kind of talking about this earlier, before we started the Googling. He would have a lot of patience for. I found this. Should we try this? Should we try this? And I remember that he would always be supportive, but he would have to tell me after a while. We had, like, we had the great quinoa war, as I call them, because I was trying gluten free, Cajun free. So after the great quinoa wars, he said, that's it. We're done. We're done with gluten free. That's not going to work for us. And it was like, I really kind of needed the reality check. And so he was always the reality check of whatever crazy thing I was trying.
Julianna Scott [0:06:19] That that was definitely. I know we had that dynamic. Like, sometimes we would. A suggestion would be made and I would be like, yes, like, let's try it.
Steve [0:06:29] We agreed on almost everything. But our. The manner in which we did that was a little different. Yes. You would jump in. And me being a prosecutor and cross examining people for a living, I would want to do a little more research and ask some questions before I was ready to commit. We always ended up getting to the same place.
Julianna Scott [0:06:50] Yeah, we did. We did. But I remember, like, we would, you know, a therapist or someone would be telling us, like, oh, you know, you should try this. And I'd be like, okay. Like, and I would already be thinking about how to implement. And Steve would be like, okay, have you considered, you know, this, this and this? And I'm just like, ugh. I mean, I just want to jump in and try it. And I'm like, okay, I can kind of see where you're coming at from that. But that was definitely part of our dynamic.
Kelley Jensen [0:07:17] Moms have the. Sometimes you're too close to it, you know, you become too myopic. And always the worry. The worry, which everybody has the worry. All parents have the worry, but that's driving it. As opposed to sometimes you need to take a step back and remember, you can't cure this, so you're going to do your best, but you don't need to jump into every therapy. And sometimes I need. I know I needed that reminder.
Julianna Scott [0:07:40] Yeah. So talking about that relationship dynamic. So one of the things that research does support is that fathers often feel their suggestions aren't taken seriously and they absorb their partner's stress. You talk about that unconfident, like not being very confident in their caregiving role and maternal gatekeeping. So, you know, mothers being like, I'm the primary one, I make the decision. You're, you know, I'm going to delegate these tasks.
Eric [0:08:10] In our relationship, I didn't feel that in any kind of shape or form. I think we always came to conclusions on different things with therapists and, or medications and, or whatever that come across. I mean, we always would have discussions. We might disagree at the beginning or talk about when we're going to make adjustments or like you were talking about the one with the gluten free stuff. I mean, I think we both came to conclusion pretty quickly that this was a quackadoo. Yeah. So we moved on from there. And then bless Kelley, that she kept going and going. And then that's when we eventually found MeRT for Beau. And so that was an eye opener for both of us. And so that was one where at the beginning I was the financial guy going, here we go.
Julianna Scott [0:08:55] Right.
Eric [0:08:55] Dumping more money down the drain. How many more hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of dollars are going to put into this? And that was a life changer for us all. So, no, I think we've been. I read that part of your paper and I don't think we had that type of dynamic in the sense of feeling that my voice was not heard.
Kelley Jensen [0:09:17] But so to moms listening, that's very important that husbands feel heard or that what we say in the paper is, he's not gonna do everything the way you're gonna do it. You have to make peace with what you've got. Like, Eric was always in charge of bath time and I couldn't criticize the way he was doing the bath or that was gonna be a conflict. Maybe I smelled cookies on the hands every once in a while, but that wasn't for me. That was Eric's job and I had to let him do the job, even if it wasn't up to my standards. And the suggestion is always a great resource is the therapists, because I think that if your son's having speech or your son or daughter is having speech therapy, whatever therapy they're having, it's a good idea to have that meeting, you know, that team meeting and go through the therapist notes together. And you know, my husband is just having a really hard time with this therapy exercise. And more often not, they'd say, don't make him do it, you know, And I think that's very important. A kind of a referee for those times when, you know, mom thinks dad's not doing it right.
Julianna Scott [0:10:21] Yeah. I can't remember. Was I ever critical of how you were doing things? I'm very reluctant to ask that question. Very reluctant.
Steve [0:10:29] Is this limited to autism?
Kelley Jensen [0:10:31] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:10:32] Yeah. We're staying only here. Yeah.
Steve [0:10:35] So I never felt that. I never felt like I couldn't bring something up. I think initially, I know I seem very calm and easygoing, but I have. But, but, but I am a type A personality. And after our son was first diagnosed and we were kind of settling into our roles, I had a lot of trouble letting go of the day to day.
Julianna Scott [0:10:58] Yeah.
Steve [0:10:59] I wanted to know everything. I was afraid that if I didn't know everything, I would be left behind and wouldn't be as good a dad. I wouldn't be able to participate moving forward. And it took you telling me, look, I just been through this. I can't explain everything to you as soon as you get home. And there was an adjustment to that. But once we kind of reached that understanding, our communication was always great. And I never had any issues with bringing things up to you or anything.
Julianna Scott [0:11:30] Like that was definitely one. I remember that.
Kelley Jensen [0:11:34] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:11:35] We had in-home ABA and Steve would come home and be like, okay, what did they do? And what did they do? I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so exhausted. I can't live through this twice every day.
Steve [0:11:45] So I put cameras in the room.
Julianna Scott [0:11:47] Started recording, which, to be fair, you didn't really look at. I mean, but I think it reassured you that you could look at it if you wanted to. But I don't look at segments. Yes, yes, yes. And we even. I think his speech therapy was recorded. I think she used to do that for us.
Kelley Jensen [0:12:07] Well, that's just a great idea because with the kids, sometimes, like, Beau would look at it and I think he would watch himself and he would get. It would be like a way to milk more time out of that one lesson. Right. Because he'd watch it. So he'd take it two or three times.
Julianna Scott [0:12:20] Right?
Kelley Jensen [0:12:21] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:12:21] But, yeah, I remember. I finally. It's like it was. I understood what he was saying. Like, he didn't want to be left out of the process. It's like he's coming home after being gone all day and what. All of those hours, what's been going on in the house. And I think that communication and figuring out how do I give him that information without taxing myself too much, like, adding to that I'm already stressed out. I have a baby and a toddler yeah. And now I have to basically recite everything that happened and go through the notes and do all that.
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We met this really cute little couple who we have to re-engage. But they have developed an app for reading the notes and tracking progress, you know, because they have to take such copious notes. And I think that's going to be really helpful to your point where you can scroll your app. What happened today? What are the, you know, something we didn't have access to. Ours were all paper.
Steve [0:13:43] You know, when your child gets diagnosed, it's a big adjustment and taking on those roles is part of that big adjustment. And it's important to communicate with your spouse, trust your spouse, and not necessarily divide roles, but understand that both sides are doing everything they can.
Julianna Scott [0:14:03] No, you definitely do divide roles. I mean, there's overlap, but yeah, absolutely. Well, and speaking of dividing roles, let's talk about the financial part of it. The financial burden that often falls on the dads. So that's something that comes up over and over again in this discussion about dads, that the financial strain in men is often correlated with depression, sometimes substance abuse, sometimes a suicide risk. And some of the dads are also coping not just with the strain of having to support a family and a special needs child or children, but they are also not knowing how to cope with that strain, but also coping with working longer hours and just partly to make more money, but partly just to disengage a little bit. Did you ever feel like, you know, driving around the block a few times before coming home and just, you know,
Kelley Jensen [0:14:55] Be careful how you answer.
Julianna Scott [0:14:58] It's been a while, so I forgive you. You were parked down the street.
Steve [0:15:03] So I never stayed late or stayed away longer than I otherwise would have. But what I did do is there were times where I would think about coming home early.
Julianna Scott [0:15:13] Yeah.
Steve [0:15:13] And I would definitely plan that sometimes where I knew that Jules and the boys would not be home. So I would get a couple hours to myself.
Kelley Jensen [0:15:21] That's just good clean living.
Julianna Scott [0:15:23] That's just good mental health.
Steve [0:15:25] You would take the boys to hockey every Friday. Yeah, I'll admit once in a while I would. Time they're leaving about this time I'm going to get home about one minute later and get a couple hours to myself.
Julianna Scott [0:15:37] I do remember there's some news. I would come home a little early and the car would be in the, in the driveway already. And I'm like, huh, he's home early. I see.
Kelley Jensen [0:15:45] But that is good mental health.
Julianna Scott [0:15:47] It is good mental health. You got to take that time.
Kelley Jensen [0:15:49] Those little like releasing of the steam valve was the so important for everybody. For everybody.
Julianna Scott [0:15:55] Right.
Eric [0:15:55] So that was me sneaking off to work on Saturdays where, I mean, I'd get stuff done. Don't get me wrong. I know, but it'd be where things aren't. Worrying about things that are going on since. So that was. I mean, I don't think I abused it in shape or form, but it was code, right?
Kelley Jensen [0:16:14] Code for I need a couple hours. He was code. And you know, that's like I said, that is a good thing that alleviates a lot of stress.
Eric [0:16:23] And your code was, I'm going out to the book club with the ladies.
Julianna Scott [0:16:27] Yeah, that was legitimate.
Kelley Jensen [0:16:33] It was definitely legitimate. Definitely.
Steve [0:16:36] I did feel guilt that you were home with the boys without a break and I was at work whether it was a good day or a bad day. And. And I definitely worried about making sure I was home extra on the weekends and if you needed to get out or do something, have at it.
Julianna Scott [0:16:54] Yeah, no. And I admit I was jealous of you going off to work. I was like, oh, you do get a break. You get this social life outside of the house and you get to have a career. So I missed that. And obviously I am extremely grateful that I have the luxury of being able to be a stay-at-home mom. And you provided that opportunity for me, but I definitely missed out on that part. But did you feel that financial burden of being the sole breadwinner?
Steve [0:17:30] For me, the burden was more an emotional toll. Making sure that I didn't dump what I was going through on you because you were dealing with the boys all day. So I would definitely withhold how I felt.
Julianna Scott [0:17:45] Yeah.
Steve [0:17:46] A lot of times if I was going through something.
Julianna Scott [0:17:48] You mean at work or just personally?
Steve [0:17:51] Or how I felt about the family dynamic at the time, if there was something difficult going on, I was lucky enough to have a stable job. So yeah, finances weren't an issue other than I wanted to make sure we always had enough money set aside if I knew we were going to try a new thing or if something else was going on. But. But it was really more of an emotional toll for me than. Yeah, than financial yeah.
Kelley Jensen [0:18:15] Forget about the vacation slush fund. It was a therapy slush fund. Right.
Julianna Scott [0:18:19] Well.
Steve [0:18:19] And there were no vacations, I was gonna say.
Julianna Scott [0:18:21] Well, fortunately, I guess, I mean, our son couldn't tolerate vacations. Yeah. He did not want to be. Every. Every vacation we tried to take ended with. And then we came home early. Every story is like we never made it a full vacation. We always came home early and sometimes in the middle of the night. Remember we went to Yosemite and we packed up in the middle of the night. We're like, we can't even wait through the night. We're just packing up and going home. Call it. Yeah, absolutely. This is getting no better.
Kelley Jensen [0:18:50] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:18:51] So.
Eric [0:18:52] So I think for me on that I did my real workaholic days earlier in our marriage and early in. In our development in the sense that I, we financially, we were kind of on our way already.
Kelley Jensen [0:19:05] Yeah.
Eric [0:19:05] And then I could do more of kind of the late afternoon. So I'd always do the 3 o'clock on therapies. I'd be the one going around and taking my music and taking them ABA. And to do different things in the afternoon. So I think, I feel that was a help.
Kelley Jensen [0:19:19] Oh, for sure. And it was. We talk about this in the paper. It's your. It was your thing. Like I was not in charge of music. You did music and that was your time with him and that was your thing. And if, I mean, not everybody can do that, but to the extent you can, you know, if dad only has one day, then maybe that one day a week is, you know, and we
Steve [0:19:42] were a little bit different. We didn't have specific roles like that. It was more if I was home and something needed to be done, I would try and jump in and relieve the burden.
Eric [0:19:50] Yeah.
Steve [0:19:51] But it wasn't a weekly or a daily.
Julianna Scott [0:19:53] One thing you did exclusively that I never did was take them to the park because I don't like being outside.
Kelley Jensen [0:19:59] True.
Julianna Scott [0:20:01] I was just like.
Kelley Jensen [0:20:02] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:20:03] And I. I really hated the playground.
Kelley Jensen [0:20:05] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:20:05] Like, that was so boring. When. That's a Saturday.
Kelley Jensen [0:20:07] That's a Saturday thing to do. Yeah.
Steve [0:20:09] Yeah. And teaching them how to drive.
Julianna Scott [0:20:10] Oh. Oh, yeah.
Steve [0:20:11] And with. With older son, it was a seven year process. So.
Julianna Scott [0:20:18] Yeah. That was the long game.
Kelley Jensen [0:20:20] Oh my gosh.
Julianna Scott [0:20:21] No, that was similar.
Eric [0:20:23] Different. But we'll never. Well, I should say never drive, but I mean, teaching to ride a bike took a year and a half.
Steve [0:20:29] Yes.
Julianna Scott [0:20:30] Yeah.
Eric [0:20:30] A total year and a half to ride a bike.
Julianna Scott [0:20:31] To ride a bike too.
Steve [0:20:33] Typically the patience activities.
Julianna Scott [0:20:37] That's the common thread.
Eric [0:20:38] It's amazing. I'm not a patient person.
Julianna Scott [0:20:41] I am not. And I don't like to be outdoors, especially at a playground. And it was great because they had a good time going with Steve because I was never gonna do it. So it's like, oh, this is great. It's like dad time at the park. And I was never expected to go.
Kelley Jensen [0:20:57] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:20:57] So it would be weird if I went to the park.
Kelley Jensen [0:21:00] They would know you were phoning it in.
Julianna Scott [0:21:03] Absolutely.
Kelley Jensen [0:21:04] To this day, to this idea. Yeah. And there's certain gender things. Like, I was like, you are not making me do this. This is boy specific. And you did, of course. But there was just. There was certain gender role things that
Julianna Scott [0:21:18] came with some conversations.
Steve [0:21:21] There were. There was also Julia. Jules was such an involved mom that sometimes she would get involved in things that I thought was guy stuff. I would definitely say, like, look, boundaries. This is something for me.
Kelley Jensen [0:21:34] Boundaries.
Julianna Scott [0:21:34] In my defense, some of those conversations started after, like, I'd be driving him home from hockey practice, and he would tell me about what they talked about in the locker rooms. And I would have. I would be forced to explain what some terminology meant and some other things where I would. I would. Would normally turn that over to Steve. So I had to decode locker room banter. And so, yeah, I would have preferred not to, but he needed answers, so I had to provide those. Yeah, I would have happily delegated that task. So another thing that fathers tend to focus on is the long game. So employment, independence and life skills. And obviously, there's a huge range of what that looks like, depending on where your child is on the spectrum. So when our kids were diagnosed, where did your mind go? Did it go to the short term or did it go like, oh, you know, is he going to get married? Is he gonna have a job? Is he going to, you know, live independently? Or was it more short term? Like, can he. Will we get him to communicate? Where did your minds go?
Steve [0:22:48] So you were so aggressive. And I use aggressive as a positive in terms of figuring out next steps and what therapies are we going to do and where are we going to go next? That definitely freed me to think about the longer term and what does everything mean? And I definitely. Whenever I did anything or thought about anything, it was, how is this going to affect the long game? For sure.
Julianna Scott [0:23:16] Yeah.
Eric [0:23:17] So I don't know if. I mean, our son's in a different level than yours in the sense. So I think I was just going along for the ride, just trying to figure this out, period. I think later now. Yes. My focus is completely on when we're gone.
Julianna Scott [0:23:35] Right.
Eric [0:23:36] And how do I secure his life with our daughter. Yes, that he's secure and seeing how the whole environment works there. I mean it's, it's, it is a huge financial burden if you want them to have a life that you would like to see them have. Of course in a sense. So I mean that's my kind of my most financial focus right now is like okay, we need to get to this nutrition so that he is, he is secure and our daughter's secure in the sense not even have to have that financial burden herself.
Julianna Scott [0:24:13] Right.
Eric [0:24:13] So that's, that's more of my focus now. In the past it wasn't necessarily financial or long term or whatever. We were just going to get to the day what they're. How do we deal with this reaction or this behavior behavior. So it was more of that type of stuff. And now we've kind of like we're later blooming to where maybe you were dealing with when he was a young eight, nine year old and we're dealing now as with was a 27 year old. Yeah. Where. Where the future gonna land. So it's a different dynamic. I think that's probably different through all autistic depending on where they. I hate to. On the spectrum. Where they are on that spectrum.
Kelley Jensen [0:24:51] Yeah.
Eric [0:24:52] Yeah. And how, how those roles are and, and so that's it is or to focus on those things. Yeah.
Steve [0:24:58] And I think if you had not been so on the ball with all of the therapies I definitely would have. I would have focused on those things and done some more short term thinking. But yeah, no way I can keep up with you and your research and your therapy.
Kelley Jensen [0:25:13] So I can't keep up with her either.
Steve [0:25:15] So I gave up trying and I just looked for something else.
Kelley Jensen [0:25:17] Greatest day of my life is when I met her and I was like I could just run this by her. Right.
Julianna Scott [0:25:24] Well I was grateful so we could just laugh about it.
Kelley Jensen [0:25:26] Oh my gosh. It was a wild thing to do.
Steve [0:25:28] Therapy vacation. She takes care of it all.
Julianna Scott [0:25:30] Yeah, that's true. But you know I was thinking about our dynamic in terms of that and also just the ebb and flow of that and like what you were saying Eric about you know at this point we were just thinking get through the day. This point we're thinking, you know when we're gone. I know we felt like we had those like there were definitely moments where we were especially like when you got kicked out of special day class. I mean, when we were like in the parking lot going, like, you know, it's bad when your kid gets kicked out of special ed. And that's when we're like, okay, we need to stop diverting money into a college fund and we need to start, you know, putting more money into. How are we gonna help him right now?
Kelley Jensen [0:26:14] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:26:15] And we, and we were told, you know, he was never gonna live independently, he was never gonna do these things. So fortunately, Steve was on all of that stuff. Like, I was really. Yeah, I was like, you know, doing the day to day battles with the teachers and doing all of that and collecting the data so we could go to IEP meetings and we could do all that stuff. But I think fortunately we were pretty balanced that way. That I was the short term thinker and he was the long term thinker. And the same goes for like the emotional toll, I think. I feel like when I was really low, he was able to kind of pick me up. And when he was low, I was in a space where I could pick him up. And I don't know how that works. If that's just something that you kind of sense, like, okay, I need to be here with this person right now. And so it flips when it's another way. But I feel like there were moments, I think, especially in the early years, that we were both kind of looking at each other, going, oh, my God. And feeling all of the feelings. But for the most part, we were kind of at different points and that allowed us to kind of help one another, if that makes sense.
Steve [0:27:28] Yeah, for sure.
Julianna Scott [0:27:29] Yeah. So let's talk about why it's hard for fathers to get help. So part of it is our society, societal norms. It's a gender thing. That's why there's not a lot of support groups that work. Fathers feel this isolation, even though, you know, there's a lot of autism dads out there. So there is a reluctance to put their needs first. When they have a spouse that's at home that maybe is, you know, having a lot of emotional needs. What is that and how can that help? Like, where did you find support? Or did you.
Steve [0:28:13] So like you said, I think men, men socialize differently than women. And I think a lot of times what I saw is if you saw somebody in a similar situation.
Julianna Scott [0:28:23] Yeah.
Steve [0:28:24] You would, you would definitely reach out to them and form a relationship.
Julianna Scott [0:28:27] Yeah.
Steve [0:28:27] I was lucky enough that I knew two or three men at work who also had children on the spectrum, and that was definitely a comfort. But we certainly did not talk about our feelings or things like that. We might have discussed resources, we might have hung out a little more because there was a shared experience that was always a comfort, but that. That support definitely was not there. And I always felt like I needed to put my energy towards you and what you needed and what the family needed. And I couldn't kind of bring that energy from my -- take that energy for myself. So that was my challenge.
Eric [0:29:08] So, yeah, I didn't. There was no. I didn't have any friends or I had a college buddy that had a daughter with Downs. Yeah. But I mean, I would. That would. We would touch once a year, once every other year, something like that. So there wasn't anything like that. That. That would see. That were like my best buddies. They would see me and interaction with my son and then afterwards, which was positive and negative, like, how do you do it? I mean, so that was like, is it that bad? Am I not seeing.
Julianna Scott [0:29:43] I mean, so do you think that people saw what you were going through and, you know, and just didn't know what to do?
Eric [0:29:51] Right. There was empathy there, but there was no like, hey, how. There wasn't a like, hey, how can I help you? Type thing. It was like, wow, you're going through.
Julianna Scott [0:30:00] A lot of which I think, though, is a little similar because I think that we found other autism moms knew what to do, but a lot of the moms who are outside of the autism community still, I mean, they saw it, but didn't know exactly what to do either. And maybe it's just not connecting with other autism dads.
Steve [0:30:24] So there's also a difference, I think, between a primary and a secondary caregiver in that knowing that I was a secondary caregiver, I knew I had to come home right after work and relieve you. I was not going to take extra time to go out and socialize or do things like that. Whereas you, as the primary, when I got home, you needed to get out, you needed to socialize, you needed to be with someone else. So that was definitely very different. I think also men try to be. Tend to be problem solvers. Right. You don't solve autism, and women tend to be more nurturing. And so I think that dynamic definitely creates this more isolation for men.
Kelley Jensen [0:31:06] Yeah, yeah. But I think that the lesson for moms is to be sensitive to the fact that, you know, yes, it was a long day with behaviors and whatever, but we do have other moms to blow steam off with. We do have a resource. We do have a husband that's going to come home and relieve us. And I think it's important for moms to know too. There can have to be some emotional support for dads too, because you don't have an outlet. You don't have any of those outlets to turn to.
Julianna Scott [0:31:41] I think that that's kind of the crux of the issue because I remember I did feel that Steve lacked that support, but I also felt like. Well, and this is what he's feeling. Obviously he felt it too. I felt like, well, I can't be that for him to.
Kelley Jensen [0:31:57] Yeah, yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:31:58] Like I can't be everything to everybody. Yeah. And. And you know, and I think that that's this bottom line problem.
Kelley Jensen [0:32:07] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:32:07] It's like I. I remember thinking it's like I can't be, you know, your therapist.
Kelley Jensen [0:32:13] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:32:13] And your, you know, person for all and your, you know, buddy.
Kelley Jensen [0:32:18] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:32:18] To blow off steam with. And I end your spouse and our kids' parent and all these other roles. And it's like I can't do all of those things. So, you know, I pick one.
Kelley Jensen [0:32:34] Pick one that you need that day.
Julianna Scott [0:32:35] Right.
Eric [0:32:36] And I think, like, I mean, I was talking early on.
Julianna Scott [0:32:39] Yeah.
Eric [0:32:40] But I do feel, and maybe I'm wrong, that our whole society has grown for people on the spectrum.
Kelley Jensen [0:32:46] Yeah.
Eric [0:32:46] So there is a lot more empathy and support and they're ready to help you right there. I don't want to throw my buddies under the bus because they're a lot better now than they were at the beginning. I'm not having any familiarity. Like, I can't believe that the number of conversations that my son has with my two best friends. All the time. He calls them all the time and they're like, they love it. They have like 20 minute conversations. So they get it.
Kelley Jensen [0:33:14] Your son calls a lot of people all the time. Very loquacious. Everybody's on it.
Eric [0:33:20] I think it's a great thing.
Julianna Scott [0:33:22] But I also think, you know, when our kids were small, a lot of our other our friends had small kids too. And so they were in the middle of their own caregiving and they're in their own thing. And now that, that our kids are all older and maybe they're empty nesters and maybe they have more time or maybe they've gotten to know your son and understood more about autism. They can now understand and relate a little better and understand your experience a
Kelley Jensen [0:33:48] little more or just understand yourself.
Julianna Scott [0:33:49] It does. Right. And in those early days, like nobody really knew what was going on and we didn't really know what was going on. So it was hard. But we definitely isolated ourselves too.
Steve [0:34:00] Well, you know, speaking of kind of putting one person's needs over another, we had a couple friends who. You were very close with the wife. And I went into the husband, and I said, look, Jules is going through a lot right now. She could really use your wife's support. And. And I never thought to myself to say to him, hey, I could use support. And unfortunately, the answer was, sorry, like, she can't. We're enjoying our lives the way they are. We're not. We're not gonna.
Eric [0:34:31] We're not.
Kelley Jensen [0:34:31] We're not reaching out. We're not reaching out.
Steve [0:34:33] Right. And we did isolate.
Julianna Scott [0:34:34] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we. Yeah, we. You get enough of that reaction, and you get enough of, like, oh, I'm gonna go there, you know, go to a park for. For a barbecue for five minutes. He's gonna have a meltdown. Nobody's gonna. You know, he's gonna be empathetic. They're just gonna look at me like I'm a bad parent. So we just did, like, okay, circle the wagons.
Kelley Jensen [0:34:55] Well, you just guard your peace. You just. You're guarding your peace. And sometimes it's like he's calm at home.
Julianna Scott [0:35:02] Right.
Kelley Jensen [0:35:02] So I can read a book for an hour, or I can. You know, I could even go on a date night, maybe with my husband. I just don't want to disturb that peace. It's not worth it, you know?
Julianna Scott [0:35:11] Yeah. Or sometimes we would be invited out, you know, with couples or something like that, or. Or like, groups, and that's when Steve could opt out and say, like, hey, I'm gonna stay home. Yeah. You know, and. And that, you know, that was my getaway.
Steve [0:35:25] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:35:25] I mean, because I'm not.
Eric [0:35:26] I'm not a social person like my wife, so during parties, I gotta get home and check on things.
Julianna Scott [0:35:32] There's no shame in that.
Steve [0:35:33] But I used to be more social, and I actually kind of lost. Lost my edge and lost.
Julianna Scott [0:35:37] You definitely didn't exercise the muscle. Yeah.
Steve [0:35:40] Right.
Julianna Scott [0:35:40] Yeah.
Steve [0:35:41] Definitely kind of was a little stressor in our relationship as we had the opportunity to re-engage a little bit.
Kelley Jensen [0:35:48] Yeah.
Steve [0:35:48] And this. You know, this isn't just support from friends. It's also family.
Kelley Jensen [0:35:52] Yeah. Yeah.
Steve [0:35:53] Not getting that support or that understanding from family members.
Kelley Jensen [0:35:56] Yeah.
Steve [0:35:58] Also further isolated us.
Kelley Jensen [0:36:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. That's. That's brutal. So what would we do?
Eric [0:36:04] We were blessed on that side, as far as family.
Kelley Jensen [0:36:06] Yeah, we were.
Steve [0:36:07] We were.
Kelley Jensen [0:36:07] But then sometimes I feel like it just created confusion later, you know, because as. As he aged, the closeness he had with his cousins, he just got so much. He got more overwhelmed. So, you know, when they were young, we were having all of these events with the, you know, siblings and the cousins or whatever it was running around alone together, he used to say, and that was fine for him. And then they got to be teenagers, and they.
Julianna Scott [0:36:32] The.
Kelley Jensen [0:36:33] It's not really the same alone together. There's no parallel play. And they're all, you know, on their phones or they're talking about things that adolescents talk about. And that's when the reality and the social anxiety set in. And then sometimes it got to be really stressful to have him be around his cousins. And he would be stressed because he would have tics and behaviors and wouldn't know how to act. And so we kind of had that in reverse. And he was. He is very blessed to have cousins that are extremely patient with him. But even now, you know, we have kind of agreed to one or two cousins at a time. Thank God for the phone, because they call him every day. He calls them every day. And that's like a safe space.
Eric [0:37:10] That's why he was safe on the Zoom programs, because he can control that space.
Kelley Jensen [0:37:15] Yeah, yeah.
Eric [0:37:15] Different subject. Sorry.
Julianna Scott [0:37:17] So, as you guys know, in our paper, we do a. What would we do? But we are going to include you guys in the conversation about what you would do for some of these scenarios. So if a professional consistently ignored the secondary caregiver in appointments, if you felt ignored, what. What's your suggestion for that?
Steve [0:37:39] So that did happen to me, for sure.
Julianna Scott [0:37:44] I'm trying to think.
Steve [0:37:45] Not necessarily ignored, but didn't give me the same attention they gave you, even though I needed the information as much as you did. And I was never shy about asking questions and sticking up for myself. And I think if you stick up for yourself and you ask those questions and show that you're engaged, the expert will realize, okay, this person is involved also, and then they will engage you.
Kelley Jensen [0:38:12] Well, I mean, I pity the therapist that went up against a prosecuting attorney.
Julianna Scott [0:38:17] It definitely. Weirdly, it helped in IEP meetings just because.
Kelley Jensen [0:38:22] Weird. No, I don't think it's weird.
Julianna Scott [0:38:23] So it's like. Like, you know, I don't know how. What it is now, but in school districts, there was always this, you know, content. Some often a contentious thing. And like, oh, they didn't want to be. Yeah, and they didn't want to be like, you know, they're. You know, you'd push back and litigate or anything like that. Sue for services or anything like that. So having just a lawyer. I'm like, you realize he's a criminal lawyer. Like, he's not gonna. We're not gonna sue the district. But it's like, if you're really worried about a prosecutor, you've got other issues. But we definitely came into IEP meetings with. I wouldn't say good cop, bad cop dynamic. It was like. It was like strong cop, crying cop dynamic. So I don't know.
Steve [0:39:06] Well, it was perfect. It was like having an assistant in the meeting because Jules would hand me the binder, and I would go through the binder, and I would make the. Calmly make the arguments while she was in the corner crying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She couldn't handle it, and it worked perfectly.
Kelley Jensen [0:39:19] She hands me a binder, and it's just the most wonderful thing I've ever had in my life.
Julianna Scott [0:39:22] Right. Yeah. We would leave those meetings.
Steve [0:39:24] I read the Bible. Yeah.
Kelley Jensen [0:39:26] Oh, no.
Julianna Scott [0:39:29] Oh, no. But, yeah, no, we would leave, and Steve was like, you know, crying really undermines the argument. I was like, it's not like I'm trying to. And there were always tears of frustration, you know? But, yeah, that was definitely our IEP dynamic. Not great. I'm not gonna say it, but maybe relatable.
[AD READ] This episode of the Refrigerator Moms is brought to you by Brain Performance Technologies. Brain Performance Technologies is a specialty mental health clinic that offers Magnetic E-resonance therapy, or MeRT, for autistic people aged 3 or older. MeRT is a transcranial magnetic stimulation protocol that utilizes an EEG diagnostic to deliver personalized magnetic pulses to stimulate the brain and build neural pathways effective in managing autistic symptoms.
Okay, so we talked about this one. If parents can't agree on a therapeutic approach. So what if.
Kelley Jensen [0:40:22] What if, like, if, you know, and this comes up a lot in the chats, social media.
Julianna Scott [0:40:29] I want to do chelation.
Kelley Jensen [0:40:30] I want to.
Eric [0:40:31] Yeah, the marijuana experiment.
Kelley Jensen [0:40:34] We did that. We did a marijuana. Did you guys do a marijuana experiment? We did a marijuana experiment. It was terrible. I do not recommend. I didn't know it, but we agreed when to start and stop. But what if I wanted to do something really off the wall or not so much a chelation or something, you know, really fringe? But there's a lot of times the
Eric [0:40:55] biggest one was the diet stuff. We both came to conclusion on that very quickly.
Kelley Jensen [0:40:59] Yes.
Eric [0:41:00] I think we just saw. This is ridiculous. He's getting no benefit out of this whatsoever. Him personally, I don't want to say about any other kids.
Kelley Jensen [0:41:06] Right.
Julianna Scott [0:41:06] No, I know it can help with people with GI issues. It can help but, yeah, but a
Kelley Jensen [0:41:12] lot of times what comes up in some of these groups is I want him to say this, I want him to do this, I want him to behave this way. The therapist, it comes up a lot in the pathological demand avoidance groups where you're supposed speak in a certain tone, you're supposed to. And those are all, I guess, good things. But if you're the dad, you have to have your own relationship, and it has to be natural and paternal. And if you're not capable of following the rules of the therapist, then I think the therapy needs to be adjusted to what you can do. Right. Like, I'm a big fan of don't tell them what you can't do. Tell them what they can do. And I think some moms are missing out on opportunities to. For their children to form an independent relationship with their fathers, because they don't. He doesn't do it. Right. Is there a right and wrong? He's their father, you know.
Julianna Scott [0:41:58] Right.
Kelley Jensen [0:41:59] Right.
Julianna Scott [0:42:01] Yeah.
Steve [0:42:02] Well, again, we had a great relationship in terms of communication and being respectful and listening to each other, so that wasn't an issue. I can imagine there might have been a situation where I would put my foot down and said, like, absolutely not. I disagree with this. But more often than not, my. My first thought was always, no, we shouldn't do this. And then after talking about it and thinking about it, I would always come around and Jules was so good or great about finding all these resources that I had to trust her. And I ultimately would.
Kelley Jensen [0:42:37] But what would you suggest to the couple where the mom or dad has dug their heels in and it is obvious, if I hadn't come around very quickly to the diet and I was digging my heels in, how would you diplomatically have said, this does not work for our family? What would you suggest to a dad who is watching his spouse spin out of control with something that is clearly not working?
Eric [0:43:01] What would you suggest in that scenario? I'd say let's give a timeline.
Julianna Scott [0:43:06] Let's.
Eric [0:43:07] Let's. Let's lay this out. Let's try this for another week or two. Or come to. Instead of focusing on, let's stop now, give a little, but let's look at it. Can we revisit this in a week or whatever? Yeah, we're a bad example, too, because I think we came across agreeing on most everything. So it wasn't.
Kelley Jensen [0:43:31] There's a lot of people that don't. And so.
Eric [0:43:33] No, I know. So I don't know how to give a good example. I don't know how to say, how to process it through, but to be patient and try to work together on
Steve [0:43:41] it and be as knowledgeable as your spouse. If your spouse thinks there's something there that, that is worthwhile trying and they're digging their heels in and you disagree, research that. Research other things that you can be doing and maybe you provide them with some data if your, if your spouse.
Julianna Scott [0:43:59] Data with data, data with data.
Steve [0:44:01] Or maybe a second opinion or a
Kelley Jensen [0:44:03] research paper from the Refrigerator Moms. Hang your hat on what they suggest. No, I don't, you know, do your own research. But here's a starting point.
Julianna Scott [0:44:11] Yeah, absolutely. So we do have a to-do list in our paper. I know you read it, sure. You guys both read it. But some of the highlights of the to-do list are, again, appreciate that you're not caregiving alone. We talked about the single parents that are doing it, that you are part of a team. I think that's really important. And I think talking about marriage and that partnership, I think you've got to. I think that for us who are in it, have been in it for 30 plus years, I think that is that team mentality that's really important. I know I'm not great at saying we all the time. I have been told I'm not great at that. But I think early on you're kind of like, okay, we are a team, we're staying together. There's pressure here. So how do we make this team work? And even if we didn't consciously say it, I think that was part of it is being that team. I don't know.
Kelley Jensen [0:45:10] Do you guys feel like, remember that there's no I in team and you know, you keep the team mentality going and do what you have to do to keep reminding yourself of that. Right? Yeah.
Steve [0:45:21] I mean, it's all the same things you need to do to have a good marriage. But on steroids.
Kelley Jensen [0:45:25] Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Eric [0:45:29] So, but I mean, going back to the. Because there's a lot of people that are doing it by themselves.
Julianna Scott [0:45:34] Yes.
Eric [0:45:34] So I think you, you gotta create that team with your family if you can, or the caregivers or the relationships with the different caregivers that you're gonna have to do that because you're going to have to. You can't bear the brunt by yourself. So hopefully that they're listening these different podcasts and getting those types of ideas to help them get through that. And there are extremely difficult.
Kelley Jensen [0:45:55] There are respite programs in your county. There are, you know, they might not be doing it right in terms of the style of the therapy that you've been reading so much about. But consistent respite care for all of us. But for a single parent, it's non-negotiable.
Julianna Scott [0:46:10] Yeah, yeah. So a lot of what came up when I was doing that research is that dynamic when there's friction between the two, the secondary and the primary caregiver about one feeling like they're not pulling their weight. And some of that is like, I'm doing all this, he's just coming home, he's not doing anything. Or I'm away, I've got the financial burden and I'm coming home and I need some time off too. And so one of the things that comes up a lot for suggestions is to really look at the division of labor so you can both appreciate what each is doing. And we do have a list, an appendix in our paper this time about all the household tasks so you can have that as a basis of a conversation and maybe see like, oh yeah, that person is doing a lot around the house and I can pick up a couple things.
Kelley Jensen [0:47:06] I mean it is, you know, pages and pages. Because when you really make the laundry list of, you know, the cleaning the shower, cleaning the backyard, taking care of a pet, extended family, siblings, if you like, drill in it, I mean it came, it took us a long time and a lot of different, looking at a lot of different resources. It's just a long list. And I guarantee you no matter how much you think you're doing, you're not doing everything. I mean, maybe there are both spouses.
Julianna Scott [0:47:33] Yeah, both people. And maybe there's some things that are falling through the cracks like we talked about on our siblings episodes and you know, the paying attention to those siblings and I know that was a big part of it. I mean one of the things we used to do is take our youngest, our neurotypical on vacation every summer. Like one of us would, would take them so, so he wouldn't miss out and he would get a parent to do that. And that was always, you know, really fun for us on every level. But you're paying attention to all those areas so nothing falls through.
Kelley Jensen [0:48:10] It was exhausting to look at. Just look back to those days where there's just non stop needing things that needed to be done right and like a little patience too. Like you said, ruthlessly prioritizing what you're not gonna get done right yet.
Steve [0:48:24] Kids coming in at 5:00 or 4:30 in the morning.
Kelley Jensen [0:48:27] Oh my gosh, yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:48:28] Yeah. So what would you say to a dad who's listening right now and recognizes himself in this conversation but doesn't know where to start?
Steve [0:48:39] I think you have to say you're not alone. There are other dads out there, other people out there, maybe even where you're working, who have somebody on the spectrum or know somebody who's on the spectrum.
Julianna Scott [0:48:51] Yeah.
Steve [0:48:52] Reach out to them and form a relationship, whatever that looks like. It doesn't have to be only talking about autism. It can be sports or some just sharing, having a shared experience. And don't be afraid to express your feelings. Don't be afraid to reach out to other people.
Julianna Scott [0:49:11] So are you gonna. Are you gonna do that?
Steve [0:49:13] I'm gonna ignore you and give yourself some grace and give your spouse some grace.
Kelley Jensen [0:49:18] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:49:22] What about you, Eric? Do you have any words of wisdom for those dads?
Eric [0:49:25] Of wisdom? I mean, I think it's just for any type of relationship, even if, you know, it's just, if you see some issues, step up and just say, what can I do to help? Not saying, woe is me. You gotta just step up. That's the only choice you have.
Kelley Jensen [0:49:42] I think you said patience, and then more patience. And patience grows. You can grow some. It's like you put it in the earth. It grows, it sprouts wings. It does all of the things if you just commit to patience. Right.
Julianna Scott [0:49:56] I'm not very good at that.
Kelley Jensen [0:49:57] That's not true. That is not true.
Steve [0:49:58] And try not to take things personally. If you try things and they don't succeed, it isn't because you failed necessarily. Just keep.
Julianna Scott [0:50:05] Or one person brought it up or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't. Yeah, you can't sweat that small stuff.
Kelley Jensen [0:50:09] Yeah.
Steve [0:50:10] It's all about giving your kids the best life possible.
Kelley Jensen [0:50:13] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:50:13] Okay, so we have a. A little mini speed round for you guys of questions we ask. Ask moms at the end of. Of our conversation. So we'll give you a couple. So. So what superpower would you give your child if you could?
Steve [0:50:27] For me, it's always been about being a good person, having compassion, and just recognizing other people's feelings. Because I think no matter what other deficiencies you have, if. If you're a good person, if you have compassion, you're going to contribute to society.
Kelley Jensen [0:50:45] That's true.
Eric [0:50:46] So what do you mean, superpower? I mean, it could be anything.
Julianna Scott [0:50:50] It could be.
Eric [0:50:52] I could see his frustration. So I hope that he could communicate to whatever his. Whatever it may be, whatever issue he has that is his biggest weakness in the sense that it's constantly worked on him. But you could see his frustration, too, in that. So that would be the superpower I wish I'd give him.
Julianna Scott [0:51:11] Yeah.
Kelley Jensen [0:51:12] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:51:12] Okay, so what is the one thing about autism that you most deplore?
Kelley Jensen [0:51:18] Rigidity. Right?
Steve [0:51:20] I'm not going to say rigidity. Loneliness, especially. Even. Especially as an adult.
Kelley Jensen [0:51:26] Yeah.
Steve [0:51:27] We've seen our son be successful in so many different areas, but he is lonely, and that's because he's limited in things. He. In his likes and he's quirky, and that definitely has prevented him from making friends that he wants to have and. And having relationships that he wants to have. And as a dad, as a parent, that hurts. And it's hard. It's hard to watch.
Kelley Jensen [0:51:51] Yeah, that's so true.
Eric [0:51:54] I can echo that. I mean, you can see that in a different level. But, yeah, he definitely has that. That you can catch right away as far as that. And that. That's one of the hardest things about autism.
Kelley Jensen [0:52:04] Yeah, I would agree. And. And, you know, he moved into an apartment this year, and he surprised us with his ability to be there. But it doesn't cure the loneliness. It makes it worse. Almost. Right.
Julianna Scott [0:52:16] No, I think we all share that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then last but not least, what is the one thing about autism that you've learned to love?
Steve [0:52:27] The fact that my son can let things go, not hold a grudge, not take things personally. And in that respect, he's way more easygoing than everyone else in our world.
Kelley Jensen [0:52:38] That's totally true.
Steve [0:52:39] So I love that about him.
Julianna Scott [0:52:40] It's totally true.
Steve [0:52:42] Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing.
Eric [0:52:44] So. Yeah, similar. Just the black and whiteness.
Steve [0:52:47] Yeah.
Eric [0:52:48] It's right or wrong. There's not. There's not a. There's not an agenda.
Kelley Jensen [0:52:53] Yes or no? Yes or no, Daddy? Yes or no?
Eric [0:52:59] That is another superpower.
Kelley Jensen [0:53:00] Yeah, yeah.
Eric [0:53:01] As a superpower, that. It's that, you know, what you got.
Kelley Jensen [0:53:04] Yeah, absolutely.
Julianna Scott [0:53:07] Well, we thank the Refrigerator Dads for coming on. That's right. And. Oh, we got to give Steve a little pride drop for our name.
Kelley Jensen [0:53:14] Yes.
Eric [0:53:16] Wow. We haven't worked on the trademark yet. We gotta get going on.
Steve [0:53:21] Yeah.
Julianna Scott [0:53:22] We were brainstorming names for the podcast, and you offered up Refrigerator Moms.
Kelley Jensen [0:53:26] And, you know, everybody asks about it. So many people outside of autism communities have. Not even people within autism community. Some people haven't heard of it. And it is a conversation starter. It has. You know, we're starting to network more, and people want to talk to us because they want to know more about the name. It's pretty fascinating. So kudos to our super marketer.
Julianna Scott [0:53:48] Yeah, well, it was something we used to throw around as a joke all the time.
Steve [0:53:52] Yeah, the kids too.
Julianna Scott [0:53:53] Yeah, especially the kids. They would often call me a refrigerator mom.
Kelley Jensen [0:53:56] Well, it's an honor. Absolutely. It's an honor.
Julianna Scott [0:54:02] Well, thank you guys.
Kelley Jensen [0:54:03] Thank you. Thank you very much. And Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day to all of the dads out there. And check out our paper.
Julianna Scott [0:54:11] Go to our website, refrigeratormoms.com, like, subscribe, all of the things.
Kelley Jensen [0:54:17] TikTok, whatever you gotta do. See you next time.
Julianna Scott [0:54:20] Thank you for listening to this episode of Refrigerator Moms. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also find episode notes, resources and any refrigerator paper connected to today's discussion on our website at refrigeratormoms.com where you can sign up for our newsletter. We'd love to hear your questions and future episode ideas. Reach out to us on social media or through our website. The information shared in this podcast is meant for informational and educational purposes only. It shouldn't be taken as medical, psychological, therapeutic, legal or professional advice. If you have questions about a diagnosis, treatment, intervention, or any medical or developmental concerns, please consult a qualified healthcare or service provider. Don't rely on this podcast in place of professional guidance, and don't delay getting help because of something you heard here. The views and experiences we talk about are our own and those of our guests. They're not meant to serve as personalized recommendations for any individual or family. Listening to this podcast does not create any kind of professional relationship between you and the hosts or guests. Any choices you make based on the information here are completely your own, and we are not responsible for any outcomes that result from them. If this episode includes a refrigerator paper, you can find all sources and citations along with additional notes on our website at refrigeratormoms.com.