014 | Nordic drinks conquering the world: how to build a local category beyond its borders, bottom-up | with Marcus Pedersen from O.P. Anderson Aquavit (Malmö, Sweden)

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In this episode, Chris Maffeo talks with his ex-colleague Marcus Pedersen.

They use Aquavit, a typical Nordic distillate, to discuss how niche categories can create demand and appeal beyond their borders. They talk about traditional and modern target occasions, how to approach bars, get on the back bar, cocktail menus, and ultimately drive rotation.

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate it and share it with your friends and colleagues.

About the Host: ⁠⁠⁠Chris Maffeo⁠⁠

About the Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Marcus Pedersen

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Marcus Pedersen

Global Marketing | Anora

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For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

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Hi and welcome to them a few
drinks podcast.

I'm Chris maffeo, found the Roma
failed drinks where we provide a

no-nonsense approach to building
drinks brands.

From the bottom up, I will be
your host.

And in each episode, I will
interview a drinks Builder from

the drinks and Hospitality
ecosystem.

In this episode, I had the
pleasure to interview.

Marcos Patterson, we work
together in sabmiller and Asahi.

We built together.
The peroneus Reserve brand in

Sweden and Dubai and the Pilsen
record brand in the The Nordic

region Marcos has an extensive
experience in the drinks

industry.
Having worked with beer and

Spirits Brands.
He has bartender a brand

ambassador, a brand manager in a
country, in a region.

And now in his Global rehmat, I
hope you will enjoy our

conversation.
Hi Marcus, how you doing?

Hey Chris, I'm great, thank you
very much excited.

So where are you?
Are you, are you in Stockholm or

where?
I'm not this stuff martially,

I'm currently based out of Of
the mom are close to Copenhagen.

So there's been some changes
since I last spoke to you must

have been a few years back, used
to be Stockholm.

Yes, so let's give an intro
about.

Why are we speaking today?
Apart from the fact that we used

to work together and we are
friends.

But there is been a message on
LinkedIn some time ago in, which

you reached out to me, and it
was a very pleasant surprise.

Tell me about it.
As you're now, starting out as a

consultant and your device and
proof of concept.

In regards to this, build your
brand bottom up, we have

basically applied it quite
recently in our brand ambassador

universe, so be your brand
bottom up from the bar

backwards.
It's very straightforward

tablets, simple and consistent.
Message to our program.

Managers out there.
Nice.

Thank you.
Thank You, you know that this

part of the episode is going to
be mainly about hunting, so the

beginning of the journey for
drinks brands in the market.

So how do you create demand and
how do you get to sell in the

first bottle and then we'll dip
dye in the next episode of more

onto the, how do you go from one
bottle to one case?

So we both share a common
history in the beer world and

now that you are in the spirits
were like, what do you think is

the main difference after
working?

Beer.
After working with beer where

you calculate more in the
hectoliters rather than cases,

bottles, drinks, or sometimes 92
cases, it's quite a huge

difference to be honest.
But also here you see that going

from bar to bar how it's key to
be on the menu to have a

bartender.
A bar team restaurant owner or

service person to actually talk
about your and for it to be

visible because you are on a
back bar, you might be in a menu

or not with beer.
You were front of house so to

speak because you were lit up
straight in your face as a

customer.
Do you also see that there is

difference at least from my
perspective on like the focus on

the rotation?
I feel that in beard is much

more focused on the rotation of
the product while on the spirits

categories.
Some of the spirits categories

are More fast-moving, few thing
like, Jen or some other

categories.
But then, when you go into very

premium products, like an aged
whiskey, or an aged rum, the

rotation is much slower, and it
makes a bit of a difference in

mindset when you are there to
sell it and to talk about it.

Definitely, the rotation is not
the same as in beer.

Also, some products might have
the only visibility to be on the

Shelf not to rotate than how to
get it to rotate.

Even if you have one bottle
luncheon, for, maybe you have

six or seven bottles on shelf,
just to get the Shelf space

there, you have the brand
visible, but yes, getting the

rotation is also key.
Nice.

And so, you've been working for
Spirits Brands, but also you're

being behind the bar.
You have been doing breast brand

ambassador roles.
You've been doing brand manager

role, you build your career from
the bottom off.

And so I'm very interested in
hearing your perspective on

different things, especially on
how you work on the hunting

part.
So Marcos tell me how do you

create demand for your brand
because aquavit is a very

specific It category, which is
very interesting because it's

very known in a wider region.
So the Nordic countries, but

then when you go outside the
Nordic countries, it starts to

be very, you know, somebody has
heard about it, visiting the

nordics, but is not really
something that connects directly

that they can connect directly
to a consumption occasion.

So to say.
So do you talk about your brand

or do you talk about your
category or do you tap on a

wider kind of Have they agree?
Yeah, so so Chris for offer a

quiet as a category, we need to
build the category and we need

to build it internationally.
As I say it's quite neat and

unknown in certain countries
around the globe.

So we don't go brand-specific,
we rather build the category.

Talking about the brand stories
and also Heritage, for instance

first, but they are also
specific moments with activate

where where you have this
togetherness.

So you have the traditional
serves which are normally shoot

location paired with food for
around Christmas Midsummer

Solstice and and Easter and then
you have the modern moments

where you also can use it as a
ingredient in cocktails for

instance.
We also see an extended usage

where we currently are tapping
into two Trends.

As in low ABV, for instance, we
cannot say accurate since it's

below 37.5 ABB, however, it's a
schnapps as we call it.

That's the the four main
occasions where you have and you

can build the category.
Not the brand specific.

That's very interesting because
it's very similar to what I see

on.
There are categories in which

that the man was not that
established, at least in the

beginning.
And now, they are becoming more

known.
You mentioned the target

occasion, which is very
interesting for me, a clear

moment that is top of Mind, in
terms of deciding what you have.

So, you can have a, let's say a
Prosecco.

You're going to have an
aperitivo, you can have

something different.
And then for aquavit, it sounds

like snaps and the togetherness
on Christmas and the Danish way,

I Norwegian way.
I remember all these kind of

like moments who basically are
you competing with?

Are you competing with shorts or
more white, Spirits overall like

unaged, kind of spirit, like
tell me more and also for our

readers because they may not be
that familiar with aquavit in

general.
We are having multiple comp

sets, of course, from the start
from the traditional service,

it's other a kibbutz in the
Region of course.

And then when you go
internationally, we lose market

share because the activated with
a heavy user is quite old.

So we need to modernize and
premium eyes the category, not

the Brand's itself, but also to
have a wider audience.

It sounds very, very similar to
what has happened with their

motto and the bitters category
in easily and all around the

world, there's always this
traditional consumption, okay?

Asian and modern, I love.
Like the way you said it's very

much in line with my thinking
that there's always some

traditional way of drinking a
product that goes back to the

roots of the products or
similarly, for example in a

motto as a digestive Spirit to
have after dinner.

But then also the modern way.
And you can tap on to this

modern cocktail that you may not
think of having with aquavit,

but then you actually can and
you can use it like the Mescal

of the nordics and love that.
I will, I will write this down.

In terms of you know you can you
can make it twist for example on

a Negroni like a Nordic Negroni
or as we dish Negroni.

You also need to rejuvenate the
category part of that success

for the Amato category has been
engaging with bartenders all

around the world.
So how are you doing that?

Or do you see a trend happening
or tell me about how you think

this can work in the global
sphere?

It's a battlefield out there.
We are using a brand

ambassadors.
We need to start relationships

continuously in order not only
to be top of mind for bartenders

or bar owners or managers.
But also for the product itself,

it's very versatile, but also
how to use it and also talk

about the Heritage.
So they know about the ancient

history, how it was from the
beginning.

How do you select the bars in
which you want to go?

In a new in which you would like
to be sold.

And how do you explain that your
importers Distributors, the

ecosystem that you actually
interact with daily.

I think we all have our goal
where we want to be and what we

want to achieve.
So nowadays when we are

selecting our bars area cities,
we are targeting quite high-end

bars, in order to be featured in
the menu.

Some point of time, but they
start off with one period to

sell one drink at a time.
How is the trade reacting to

these in terms of category?
Like, something that I always

talk about it on LinkedIn on in
other episodes of the mafia

drinks podcast?
That's a category is a broad

term know.
So you can make it very Niche

and specific, or you can widen
it as you want it to be.

No.
So how do you explain it to, for

example, a bartender or your
brand, I was like, how do they

do it?
I can imagine going into a bar

in Milan, people would say,
actually I don't need an

aquavit, I know that aquavit is
a category, but it's not really

a category for Milan.
No.

And they haven't tried actual
product for since it's a niche

product and it's Caraway and or
Dill seed.

So, it is a fantastic liquid,
and it's very spicy and

fruitful.
When you get it into a drink,

when you get the bartender's to
actually work with the product,

you find this.
Symbiosis and great taste and

flavors within it.
So most of the bartender's as

they now currently we have a gin
trained.

We have this tequila Mezcal
Trend here when you have the

something new internationally.
And if you go wide this is very

interesting and exciting for
them to use, we use brand

ambassadors for instance, to
walk into bars to have these

most classes.
Parts of trainings.

Do you use other categories to
help you explain what it is?

So you do use, for example,
genome Mescal, as you mentioned

to explain it to somebody.
That hasn't actually tasted it

yet.
You are tapping.

Other categories to build your
own calories.

If I understand what you're
saying, yes, that is correct.

So it's easier.
Explain that way.

And also not to create too many
new cocktails you tapping into.

Already worldwide cocktails, as
the say, the margarita, you do

the Swedish Margarita, or the
Norwegian Margarita.

Just tapping into these known,
it's a signature cocktail, but

it's more category specific
rather than brand-specific.

I like that approach that in
which basically you're not

Reinventing the wheel, because
what I see a lot of Brands doing

wrong is that they come up with
a cocktail with a signature

cocktail top down.
Like it's usually, Built in an

advertising agency rather than
from actual bartenders and

actual bar people and it becomes
okay, you have to push this and

they give a toolkit to the trade
marketing and to the brand

ambassador and the sales guys
and it becomes a bit of a bad

Soul know because it just like
your can you please do put this

on the menu and then it's just
like it but it doesn't make any

sense.
But if you make it effortless

for them to actually say you
just have to switch gin or you

just have Choose which Mezcal or
tequila, or whatever from that

current drink, then it makes the
foot-in-the-door much, much

easier.
It reminds me when we used to

sell pepperoni together and it
was much easier to put the

bottle of pepperoni.
Into a bar because maybe it was

not available on keg, but nobody
was saying no to a bottle

because it was effortless for
them because we were not asking

them to remove a tap of a
competitor and putting our

bottle in.
So how do you work like you

mentioned like cities and the
approach I guess that you're not

in a stage in which you are
National Distribution in the

countries where you're not in
Focus.

So how do you build when you
enter a country, So what we do

is basically we apply this what
we call a local business area.

So we choose, of course, it's
sitting, or we choose an area of

the city or we use bars of an
areas of its City.

So small go, big and go local.
So you can have a small area

where you want, when you want
your audience and, you know that

your audience after after inside
studies where they actually go.

And you build it from there
again.

Ink by drink bottle by bottle
based on my experience in the

nordics, I remember on trade
plays a huge role there in terms

of brand building.
Do you see that everywhere?

Or do you see that it's much
more important in the Nordic

countries being a dark market,
then Italy, or Spain, or Germany

or any other market May way you
may sell to.

So you mentioned dark markets as
a monopoly markets in the

nordics.
It's very different from open

markets to Denmark, for
instance, where you have an open

market, but the own trades plays
a very, I would say, is key.

Because in Monopoly markets,
dark markets, you cannot operate

with any ATL or anything like
that.

What you actually bring to the
table, what you see?

In an outlet, in a restaurant,
in a bar, that's where you build

your Brand's.
It's very important if you move

outside.
And here, let's say you have the

ratio of 80/20 manipulated and
on trade 20% in volume, not Al

you, and then you operate, for
instance, in Italy.

My work with some other brands,
or in the Middle East, where you

have on trade is like 80 90
percent so it's totally So it's

80 90 % and like off trade,
basically zero.

I was working at one point of
time him atleast and that was

total turning point in my twist
in my head so thick.

So yeah, I'm on trades important
for every Market.

However, for different reasons,
I didn't realize it earlier that

you living in malmö, which is
actually a across the bridge

from Copenhagen.
You're basically experiencing A

dark market and Adnan, dark
Market unit, train trip over a

bridge.
I get challenged a lot by people

who don't know the on trade and
not, let's say so, entree driven

like me or probably you in terms
of what is the actual importance

of on trade while building
Brands.

There's a lot of people that can
say actually like the job that

the on trade does is not that
crucial in terms of building a

Brand.
And they always referred to

Nordic markets as a an example
in which, like when it's a dark

market and on trade is much more
important.

But not when you go outside of
those dark markets, kind of

thing, I would say it's on trade
is still key.

As you said, I'm based in Mama.
It's 20 minutes from door to

door to a new country but also
their you have the opposite

direction also have promo.
So in Denmark at the consumers,

they buy their alcohol during
promo periods, more or less.

So it's I don't know, exact
ratio so forgive me Denmark by

Aquatics. 70% of all Spirits in
off Traders through.

Mo.
But also hence, the more

importance in the own trade,
where you actually can talk

about the products, you have the
more premium, iced coffee

stores.
So consumers are there, they are

in their own tree.
They need to be educated

trained, not only the bars but
the consumers that visits the

bars and everybody else that
absolutely and building on what

you're saying now about the
consumer it leads to my next

question which is what do you
Think about Target consumer and

Target occasion to clarify.
The question when I grew up in

the marketing world.
Like, I always used to think in

terms of consumer when you have
a Target consumer, you have a

demographic, you know, 2240
whatever, legal drinking, age to

36 or you know, 40 to 50 or
whatever that bracket is like a

maid female and so on like
income and ABCD abc1 a be One

and so on growing and developing
my career, my understanding of

the drinks, World up faded away
from that thinking in terms of

consumer and the target
occasion, which has always been

part of my let's say upbringing,
but it has reached a much higher

focus in it.
So for me, it doesn't really

matter how old you are, or who
you are.

It's all about the occasion and
there.

A certain occasion, they may be
more skewed towards party high

energy, low energy, or whatever
like a column or night or around

like a romantic night or date or
a group of friends, kind of

thing.
But for me, I could actually

remove almost totally.
The target consumer in a way and

really focus on the target
occasion.

What's your take on this?
I think it's very interesting if

you take that pivot category for
instance, We in Sweden, it's

well known and its Heritage that
all the universities.

They have these dinner parties,
where they usually in the past,

had a credit for cheering, which
is their location to killer

application with the shot that
Still Remains.

However, what we now see is that
the target audience or the

younger group, the aspirational
audience, we normally say, they

now a still shot during these
fraternity dinners, but they

short in a different way and
they also go low.

So location is still there.
However, the liquid and the ABV

amount is different, okay?
Okay.

Now, which is very interesting
to see like a shot of a, no

alcohol shot like that.
That is a bit of a challenge to

think.
Your foot from bleep.

That's what happens.
Yeah, you're right.

But also not only no alcohol but
also low.

So they go to different
categories.

So they started out having this
activates dinner service big

cheers and then now moving to
Liquors because they want to

have a fruity notes still low.
ABB and note that they drink

more.
More or less.

They might have one or they
might have to but they want to

experience something else in
their taste buds.

Some Apple notes or elderflower
notes or what not.

So let me start with my usual
challenging and polarizing

thoughts.
That one case in one bar is

better than six bottles in six
bars.

What do you think about this?
What's your take?

It's very interesting mindset.
I have to go with this one.

It's of course, better with for
me, I would say one case in one

bar. rather than six policy and
six bars, because we want to

work Very localized and then
expand out from that.

So if we choose a city and area
or one bar, it's very important

for us, asks the category to
work it with it and also to get

rid of the case.
You passed the test.

That was what I wanted to hear.
Now, I'm just kidding.

And when I hear what you're
saying, it's very interesting

because I see a lot of Brands
wanted to expand distribution to

quickly and going more into kind
of like a hunting mode rather

than a farming mode.
But what it sounds from you,

what you're saying is that, you
want to consolidate that piece

of sale.
Is that?

Because of the The peculiarity
of your category that you're

thinking that way.
I think it's what we have

learned back in the days as
well.

Also, working with other brands,
you need to start out small and

you need to be able to walk
before you can run also to

adjust to apply certain changes
and revisions before you head on

to the next stage, so to speak.
And also to work with the bar

and this case in order to
actually get the spillover

effect.
Hopefully, this is what you aim

for That credible even if that
is a high-end bar, if it's

mainstream bar, but this is the
bar where you want to be, then

you work from that, are from the
drink Coke, take and backwards

for me, the very important
factor.

Is that being Aqua bead such a
niche category?

You are at very high risk of
basically being on the back bar

and collecting dust.
No.

Because they're wearing.
Ness or the share of mine may be

strong in the first week of or
so, of the listing.

But then, if you don't get them
to really work it out and really

work the product, then it
basically becomes one of the

tens of bottles that are staying
there behind the bar.

So how do you try to get the bar
from one bottle to one case?

So what we do is basically we
work with them, not only brand

ambassadors, but also the sales
force and the marketing

department could be there
supporting don't trade Outlet,

fool own, because we need to be
not only as a say, in the back

bar, or for activates sometimes
in the freezer.

Fridge.
So the visibility is very low.

So no one is even wondering what
bottle.

Do you have in the back bar over
there?

Because we need to be on the
menu.

So we need to work with the bar.
We need to constantly having the

relation and being close to the
outlet that we are working with,

in order to actually get the
rotation poem.

That's actually very interesting
what you're saying because I

didn't think about it earlier.
Sir, is that especially a brand

that has a not as a key occasion
or there's a key traditional

occasion that the shot then of
course you want to have it cold.

And then it's probably in the
fridge or in the freezer, which

makes it invisible on the back
bar, right?

So what is it?
The practice that you see in not

specifically for your brand, but
in general, these bottles kind

of like a double bottle.
So that there is one in the

freezer and one in the back bar
or Are you get the curse and the

blessing at the same time and
you just in the fridge and then

you are invisible on the back
bar.

Yeah.
So it's very crowded space so

that would of course always be
the aim to be the pouring

Ecuador at not.
So you can actually have a few

cocktails on the menu but also
yes to have it visible on the

back bar is that this golden for
us?

So what we do try is that Yes,
please keep your one or two

bottles, as a stock on the back
bar and then of course, you can

have one in the freezer or
fridge for short occasion, and

then for your menu.
Yeah.

And do you see like whatever
company are working work for and

consulted for?
There's always this focus on the

back button on the menu, any
brand.

And any company is basically
playing on the same field which

is very funny at the same time
because it basically becomes a

zero sum game.
Because everybody thinks they

have the competitive advantage,
to course their competitors.

But ultimately everyone wants to
be in the back by everyone wants

to be in the menu.
Everyone wants to be in the

cocktail list, right?
So how do you convince them to

put you on the cocktail menu?
So very relevant and I fully

agree with you in regards to the
cocktail list and what not.

We also have one additional
thing that we are using in the

nordics for instance since
aquavit is also consumed a lot

food.
Pairings you have on the tables

because you also have to work
with the waiters and not only

bars.
So you have these glass holders

so to speak.
So you can have that already set

on the table for people.
People to have their schnapps or

their short, not the actual
product, but you can show like a

glass wind up.
So you have a collection of six

or four glasses and eyeglass
holder already set on the table.

That is also one key thing for
us to be visible not for Brad

perspective but as a activate
category perspective, because in

the nordics then you know this
place they do sell out.

Covereth.
That's that's very interesting

because that mean you are
creating the awareness of the

availability kind of thing.
North.

That's because you're mean, if I
enter the bar, if I enter the

restaurant, I'm sitting in the
table.

I'm with my friends, I probably
never look at the back bar, or

at least I would, but the
average Joe wouldn't, and then

you create the link to the
moment.

And the reminder of, oh, by the
way, they've got aquavit here

and we can order a round of
aquavit during the meal.

And how Let's say what you think
is the main driver for say is to

actually go from one bottle to
one case if you had to pick the

most important one.
I know it's many different one,

but what's the most important
one for you?

The depending on the venue let's
say for a cocktail bar that

would be of course a referral
from the bartender.

Not only that you are checking
the menu, maybe you don't even

see the menu because the barman
has already approached you and

you say, okay, make me something
really tasty.

And then an accurate cocktail is
what you get because you get it

from.
Referral.

And then the other hand is is of
course if you visit the

restaurant it's with the menu.
So it's also paired with.

So you have these salad or what
not and then you have the

additional to up your salad.
This is really tasty to go to

compliment for your dish.
It's very easy selling that

makes very much sense.
I think that is very

category-specific because not
all categories can have the

luxury of the pairing menu by
going.

In most categories, you would
probably be wine and most

restaurants I would say.
And what is the role for

Distributors?
Because let's say sell out is

built bottom up.
So it comes from the bartender

that recommends the product or
the menu and the consumer has

seen it.
There.

But then, at some point you
basically get to a stage in

which you are Engaging with the
wholesaler or distributor

without going too much into
specific of each country.

But in your experience.
What's the level of importance

of working with Distributors and
do you work with Distributors?

Yes, we work with Distributors
and I would say it's the

relationship that you create not
seeing them as Distributors.

But they are Partners, you need
to be very close and need to

hold their hand and really show
them.

The product that they're
categories, the brands that we

are having in the portfolio, you
need to constantly update and be

there for your partners.
Have you seen like a lot of

interaction between the sales
team or the brand ambassadors

that you work with and they're
wholesaler sales team or don't

not really definitely not only
from the Parker side.

But also from our side, we are
constantly again work.

Going on this as we are
operating in the nordics /,

Europe.
It's not Global, it's under

control so to speak.
So the the traveling has started

postcode there are traveling a
bit nowadays.

And what would you say is The
Challenge on working with

Distributors and how to get them
on board?

The challenge is sold for
activate.

It's challenging since this is
not there.

Their main focus.
Maybe they got the activate

category when they actually
signed the contract and the

partnership with the brand
owners.

So as we are a big company with
more Brands and more categories,

this For most markets comes with
the contract.

Yeah, and that's enough.
That's a very that's a very

great point.
They get it almost as a gift as

part of the portfolio and half
again.

But then it's up to you to
really do the legwork and make

it a priority even though it's
not a priority for them.

Exactly.
And how do you manage?

Because that's an interesting
thing.

That probably like listeners
would like to know more of like,

without telling your secret, of
course.

But how do you manage to
actually build the share of

mine?
And because what I'm thinking,

like, from my experience is that
they get their target top down.

So they say we want you to sell.
X cases of this brand x k.

So this brand and then X cases
of kind of like others.

No.
So in the markets in which

aquavit Falls between the others
then it's a challenge, right?

It is the challenge.
However, that being said, if we

go back to what we said earlier
about the traditional moments,

We do have a CSUN for aquavit
where you can make a proper

selling because it's credible in
the right context.

Since you are selling it in for,
if you do turns yellow or

quarters, you do it around
Christmas or before Christmas?

This is, this is mainly, sold
around Christmas.

We try to deseasonalized it, of
course, cocktails and whatnot.

But in the end, if you working
with distributors, then you set

up the calendar where you have
the accurate system will still

be where it's the most credible
one, because you have these

Nordic people as myself living
abroad, leaving internationally,

living around the entire world
and for them, the after it is

consumed as a short occasion
around Christmas.

So basically what the Americans
call OMD is October November.

December becomes the
make-it-or-break-it of the

Target.
You can say that.

Yes, a short and snappy way very
pretty point.

And which must be a very
stressful way because the know

what's your financial ear is?
If it ends in December 31st, but

then you have to go a step
further during the year to avoid

that ship.
Just waiting for that OMD

season, right?
Yeah, but I try to see it on the

other.
And so I see yes, oh and he's

highly important for the
category, but also for us to

actually steal share of Mind
during summer period, for

instance is easier because no
one is thinking of active, it

does at this point of time.
So for us to steal some share of

Mines, the some volumes during
that period, that is for us FOC.

You've got Midsummer in summer
anyway, so exactly.

But you need to prolong.
Yeah, you can still find an

excuse to to do that.
And how do you convince bars to

put you on the cocktail list?
When it's not really a priority

for them to sell Aqua bit as a
category.

Again it's a very Niche product
and nowadays with a Mescal Trend

and also the tequila is booming
and in most of the world it's

getting easier to get it on the
menu then it was a few years ago

to be honest.
It seen as very exciting

product.
I wouldn't say it sells itself.

However, it's that the selling
is much easier.

Nowadays as the trend is for
these Niche products or less.

And you mentioned earlier that
there are pouring aquavit, how

do you manage to become the
pouring aquavit in a bar?

It's very interesting.
It's about how the outlet is

pushing for it.
So you have these Norwegian

aggravates, you have the Danish
ones, then you have the Swedish

Equity.
It's basically what is right for

my venue, for instance, the
Norwegians they have a lot of

barrel-aged accurate swear
Denmark has two more tough

inaccurate, which is very clear
and liquid quite High ABV and

very Carraway It's only Caraway,
to be honest.

So so it really gives you the
punch.

So if you want to go in that
direction or the other one,

Direction's also for some
Brands, we do a lot of

collaborations so cost finish
collaborations with different

brand, houses around the world
now that you mention it, like

the different nationalities of
aquavit is it linked to the bar

manager or the bartender that
are working.

There, are they trying?
To steer the conversation

towards their home aquavit.
If you have a, let's say it's

British TV DISH bartenders in
Norway or Swedish bartenders in

Denmark, in Copenhagen like the
diaspora of the on trade, seen

across the nordics.
Do you see that happening

somehow?
Definitely, for instance, let's

take the Norwegians.
And in Norway, it's very

localized.
What is your favorite and what

you push for as a poor
Inaccurate in Sweden.

That's where you also take the
national pride, right?

So the Swedish activate, this is
premium.

This is fantastic liquid.
I didn't say that, but we did

some insights and then you have
the Danes and how it served, for

instance, they drink it, the
note for lunch time, we also

talked earlier, we used to work
with be right?

So in the UK, you love your beer
up to the rim and hold the phone

day.
They love their Octopus as a

short up to the rim no foe.
So a little bit like a like a

sucky.
Yeah, exactly.

But it's how its consumed as
well from dusting for dust

America.
So I think we can wrap it up

here and really thanks a lot for
your time.

I will let you plug in your
details here.

If somebody wants to get in
touch with you or find out more

about aqua Of eat and about what
you do.

So, please take a few seconds to
introduce yourself and your

contacts.
So, feel free to just reach out

to me on LinkedIn, or read more
for the Swedish original

activate, that the Opie
Anderson.com.

Fantastic.
So thanks a lot for your time

Marcos.
I don't want to steal more of it

and I hope to see you soon and
enjoy some aquavit together

somewhere in Europe sounds great
thanks Chris.

Thank you.
That's all for today.

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