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Podcast for the Digital Literacies and 21st Century Skills course at Adelphi University's Educational Technology program.
Liberty
Hi everyone. My name is Liberty.
Lina
My name is Lina.
Liberty
We are going to be talking about disinformation today, just going over what it is, um, the most interesting points from the readings, and overall our opinion on the readings this week. So, disinformation is a rhetorical strategy that produces and disseminates false or misleading information in a deliberate effort to confuse, influence, harm, mobilize, or demobilize a specific audience.
Lina
So, the article Producers of Disinformation by Samuel Spies discusses the ongoing issue of disinformation, particularly during the 2020, um, US election. So, while disinformation—except the, the price of social media and declining trust in institutions—has amplified this impact.
Liberty
So, I think the biggest, uh, the biggest point that was made in this article throughout is how, you know, accountability can't just be on people that are reading the disinformation or users of social media. There also has to be some level of responsibility from the platforms or the people that are putting out this information.
For example, in the article, Spies says that Facebook and Twitter haven't really shown that they're willing to make an investment in content moderation. Uh, because the way their business works, it runs on engagement. So, you know, if there are things keeping people on the platform, even if it's not true, these platforms are going to leave it up on their site.
Um, I thought that was an interesting point because it kind of proves that as long as they're making a profit or people are using their platform, these companies don't actually care about what is being put on it. Um, even though they have their guidelines and restrictions, they don't really enforce them that well. And there's plenty of examples about that. I'm sure we've all seen things that we weren't really supposed to see.
So I just thought that was an interesting point that Spies makes.
Lina
Um, I agree with that. Um, I feel like obviously the more attention it's getting, the more they're gonna want it on their platform. 'Cause then the more people are, you know, more people are commenting on it. And how’s that work? Is it like the more likes or the more comments or something?
Liberty
Yeah.
Lina
Kind of money off it or advertising. Doesn't it make some kind of revenue?
Liberty
I don't really know how that works.
Lina
Gotta be something. So, I, I can totally see why they don't wanna get involved per se. What I also noticed was—I put it here—um, a lot of the disinformation in the 2020 election revolved around the mail-in voting.
Liberty
Mm-hmm.
Lina
Wow. You know, narratives about voter fraud amplified by right-wing media contributed to the distrust in the voting process, um, particularly targeting communities of color. I thought that was interesting. Why are they saying it only targeted communities of color?
Liberty
Um, yeah, I think, I think that's a good point. I think, um, like I remember another part of this reading is that usually the disinformation being spread or disinformation campaigns relied on the divides that already exist between us, and they kind of draw on those.
So whether that's racial or cultural, um, they know that that's a hot point for people. And it's something that gets people's attention and gets their engagement. And they're choosing to take those and amplify them or make up some sort of story that's related to that, and that really gets people—
Lina
—more believable.
Liberty
Yeah.
Lina
So, it also highlights the rise of paid social media influencers spreading political propaganda as well as new tactics, like using fake academic journals to promote false information.
Liberty
Um, yeah, I thought, I thought that was interesting because at some point—I don't think it's Spies, I think he's quoting someone else—he says that, you know, both sides of the political spectrum are doing that. They're paying people to push messages or show their support or endorse them in some way, um, on these platforms. But for some reason, in a lot of these articles, even the articles from last week, we're hearing a lot about just the right side in politics.
Um, so I didn't know if you wanna talk anything about that, but I think that's interesting.
Lina
Yes, I noticed that as well. I feel like it's always the right side that's lying, the right side that's making up the fake news. In reality, we all know it's both sides. They all have an agenda. I guess one side does a better job at hiding it than the other. But I find it interesting how it's always the right side. We are always, always focusing on what the right side is doing and all their faults and never the left.
Liberty
Yeah. I'm thinking like maybe in, especially in Spies’ article, you know, the election that was focused on—there was so much attention on the right during that election in general.
And also this election coming up, there's a lot of attention on the right side. I don't think there's as much on the left. Um, so it does make sense that it comes up more. It's also like whatever data that these people have access to—maybe there's generally more right-winged users on a platform or something like that—that also skews the information.
Lina
So, which kind of makes you wonder who is starting the misinformation? Is it the right side or is it, you know, like it just makes it questionable. 'Cause if it's, if we're always talking about one side, then who's really starting the false—yeah, the false information.
Liberty
I think that's, that's like a good point. And that also ties to the special issue on fake news—the Lies, BS, and Fake News article or additional resource this week—that talks about, you know, when disinformation might be okay or necessary. Like, when is a lie necessary? Maybe it's protecting someone or, you know, like, if your country is at war or something and there's something going on, you have to save somebody, and you have to, you know, lie to the public or something.
It talks a lot about when the lie is acceptable versus when it's suddenly disinformation. Um, which I thought was interesting.
Lina
I agree. I'm, I'm just at the point where I just kind of don't believe anything anymore.
Liberty
Um, yeah, I think, I think that's fair. But I think that, um, a lot of these articles say a main source of disinformation is because, you know, people have a lack of trust in government because they've been exposed in lying before, um, no matter what side you're on. And so that leads to mistrust, and it makes it easier even to read disinformation or want to believe it. Because if it's lining up with your distrust of the government or something, then it makes more sense to you.
Lina
Definitely agree with that. Disinformation and the internet—oh, that's still Spies, right? Disinformation in the internet age. So, I also think that a lot of this, you know—obviously disinformation existed. It's something that's always been around, but I kind of feel like the internet and the social platforms are what’s amplifying it more.
Liberty
Yeah.
Lina
Making it worse.
Liberty
Yeah. I, um, I think that’s, that's fair too. Um, I think like the Bulger and Davidson piece—I can't remember what it's called—but they really did a good job talking about the ways to navigate the disinformation in the time that we live now, because it's just everywhere.
Like, they give a brief definition of media literacy, and then they walk through the four different steps that we can take to prevent disinformation from spreading.
Like letting youth actually participate in these platforms in a safe, controlled way so they interact with the platforms but also know how to distinguish disinformation from what's real. Um, as well as training the teachers and providing curricular resources for teachers so that we also are equipped to help students disseminate what is disinformation and what’s not. Along with parents—if the parents don't have media literacy, then how are they gonna know?
Lina
I definitely feel like this is something that should be taught in school at a young age. You know, these kids are on their phones and on the internet at such a young age, and they are just as guilty of spreading false information as adults are. So, I feel like if they are taught this at an early age—like, maybe... Do they still take a, a computer tech class? I'm sure they do in elementary school.
Liberty
Yeah. Yeah. I think it could also just be worked in—like, even if they don't address it in a tech class, they could set aside a day to have a lesson about it, like even within your own class.
Lina
Yeah, that's true.
Liberty
We used to have assemblies for stuff like that, too—safe social media or online safety assemblies.
Lina
We still spoke to assemblies in my school.
Liberty
Yeah. So, they weren’t taking away from instruction time.
Lina
Right.
Liberty
It could just be added into a lesson plan, whether it's writing or something else. And also, it’s not just on students or parents to figure this stuff out. More people should hold companies accountable for spreading disinformation.
Lina
I agree. But it’s definitely easier said than done.
Liberty
Yeah.
Lina
Especially now, where everyone thinks their
opinion is the only one that matters.
Liberty
Yeah. Polarization is definitely a huge issue.
Lina
For sure.
Liberty
So, I don't know if we resolved anything with this conversation, but it was definitely fun. We learned a lot about disinformation this week. Hopefully, everyone listening learned something too.
Lina
And we’ll see you guys in the next episode.