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What's on the menu at Lucid Cafe? Stories of transformation; healing journeys; thought-provoking conversations about consciousness, shamanism, psychology, ethics. Hosted by Wendy Halley of Lucid Path Wellness & Healing Arts.
This is Wendy Halley, and you're listening to Lucid Cafe. Hey there. It's your old pal, Wendy. Thank you for joining me. Well, today, I'm welcoming back Carl Greer, a Jungian analyst, retired business executive, philanthropist, and shamanic practitioner whose life journey has taken him from engineering, finance, and teaching at Columbia to exploring the deeper realms of the psyche and spirit.
Wendy:In this conversation, Carl explores in a very grounded, relatable way how the stories we carry shape our lives, how we can work with dreams and the unconscious, and why small playful experiments can help us create real change. And we talk about how his new book, go within to change your life, isn't your typical self help cheerleader. It's a gutsy, soul stirring workbook for people ready to do real inner work. Dream decoding, ritual, guided visualizations, nature based insight making, and more. So please enjoy my conversation with Carl Greer.
Wendy:Welcome back, Carl. It's good to have you on the show again.
Carl:Thank you, Wendy.
Wendy:So it has been it actually has been, as of this recording, like, four years since you were on. So why don't you start out by reminding us who you are and your background a bit just for the folks who may have not heard the previous episode, or maybe it's been a while since they've heard it?
Carl:Well, I have been fortunate to live longer than most people on both sides of my lineage. I'm 85, I've had some health issues. And as a result of living those years, I've been able to have the various chapters in my life that I might not have had had I had a different health story. I grew up in the Midwest, Pittsburgh. I came from a middle class family that a lot of the relatives worked in the steel industry.
Carl:Summers, I did as well. So a part of me was directed destined traps to just have that kind of a working for a big company and getting retired and hopefully playing golf or something like that. But my story's a little different. Went to school, studied engineering, then went to graduate school and got a doctor's degree in finance and management. Taught at the Columbia University Graduate School of Business.
Carl:Went to Chicago, became a businessman. In my 40s, I went back to school and got a doctor's in clinical psychology and saw patients while still doing business work. Then I became a Jungian analyst and saw patients as an analyst. And around the year 2060, I started to really get interested in shamanism and studied. And that has been a big part of my life since then.
Carl:And I have taught and practiced the shamanic work with other people as a healer. Somewhere in the last twenty five years, became less interested in accumulating things and knowledge and whatnot, and thinking that I wanted to start giving back. And to that end, I set up a foundation. And for more than twenty years, I've been trying to give away a lot of that which I have accumulated. And so part of the work that I do now in the world is to support, in my particular case, 60 some charities and an emphasis on helping kids from disadvantaged backgrounds go to college and get degrees in STEM so they can make a better living than they otherwise might.
Carl:Also, in the last, I'd say fifteen years, I've written some books where the message is we all have a story that we're living. Sometimes it's not working so well for us.
Carl:And if we were going to attempt to change it, what would we like to be different? And then ask ourselves, why haven't we changed? And then dealing with all the issues that we can identify, oh, I can't because of this or that. Are there ways that we can work with ourselves such that we can change stories that don't work for us any longer? So it's more the idea, Wendy, of how do you bring your spiritual practices effectively into your everyday life?
Carl:And if you're not really spiritual, how can you get a more spiritual dimension to your life? So my books have that theme. So I wrote a book about that, then focusing on health. Then some people had asked me a little bit about my story, so I wrote a book about my life. And more recently, I've had some people say, Gee, can you give us some more things to do?
Carl:And so I wrote a workbook that goes deeper into a lot of the things I've just been talking about, with a lot of practices and things people can do to connect to parts of themselves that can help them change. So that's kind of where I am as an 85 year old guy.
Wendy:That's your story as of right now. Yeah.
Carl:Yeah. You got it.
Wendy:Yeah. And that's why you're here with me today is to talk about this new workbook that you that you just released. Before that, though, before we dive into your workbook, it's interesting to me, the people I've known who've been drawn to the shamanic path, because it seemed the amount of transformation that they end up going through as a result of that practice is pretty noteworthy. It's almost like akin to what you hear to me, at least what you hear about people when they talk about near death experiences, that they have a much different perspective after they've been practicing shamanism for a bit, they get this direct experience of the transpersonal realms or the spirit world or whatever you want to call it. And then, yeah, just to hear that you, later in your life decided to pursue that path, and then it led to all of this stuff for you, like writing these books and trying to be of service to others, and then also your charity work.
Wendy:It's pretty cool. So that means that everyone should should practice shamanism. Well I'm just kidding.
Carl:For for for me, it it did all that. And part of it, akin to, like, the near death experiences, My shamanic experiences have kind of relativized my everyday concerns. I realize I'm part of a bigger picture. I came from someplace. I'm not exactly sure what it was.
Carl:I'm here for some purpose, kind of still working that out. And I feel some aspect of me will be someplace after my body's dead. And shamanism has helped me have more of a feeling that's really true and helping me be comforted because of those feelings of thoughts.
Wendy:Yeah. No. Exactly. I mean, it changes your perspective about the nature of reality, I think. It it can, which is not a bad not a bad thing.
Wendy:And therefore, can see yourself differently and then also start to see yours the story that you refer to, the stories that we tell ourselves, you can start seeing it from a a little more objective place.
Carl:Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Wendy:Which is really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you realize, oh, this story is optional. I can start to change it.
Carl:Yes.
Wendy:Alright. So, your new book is called Go Within to Change Your Life, A Hidden Wisdom Workbook for Personal Transformation. And it's assumed it was gonna be a strictly shamanic workbook, but it's not. It's got, like, all different, very creative exercises in it that touch on many different disciplines, it seems like. Include a lot of it, the your Jungian psychology background, which is super helpful and does it does pair beautifully with shamanism.
Carl:Yes.
Wendy:So why don't we just dive into some of the areas that you introduce in the workbook? Like Sure. Let's talk about archetypes to begin with, which is well, first, why don't you define what archetypes are, and then and then why you think it's important to look at those?
Carl:For me to kind of, give you my thought about what an archetype is, I need to kinda give you my cosm ological view about how things work. I mean, believe having experienced this through shamanic work, that there was a place before the creation of this universe. So I call this the place before creation. And that place has energy that hasn't been actualized or directed, but it's pure potential. Something at some point activated that so that we have this universe with energies from this place of pure creation.
Carl:And some of those energies influence how we think, act, and feel. I call those archetypes. And depending on our DNA and our actual life stories, some of them get crystallized and precipitated in our lives more than others. For example, some people are born fighters. They're competitive.
Carl:Some people are more caretakers, and some people are more healers, and some people are more leaders, and some people are more followers. And those energies in roles we adopt are reinforced by what Jungians would call these archetypal energies. And if we're unconscious of that, then we can kind of be caught in webs that give us less freedom of action than if we're more conscious where we can start to make choices and say, I don't want to be this way anymore. I'd like to be that way. And so talking about those things and the roles that we get cast into has been useful for a lot of people when they're thinking about their stories as a starting point for, you know, hey.
Carl:Is this working for me? If not, is there a way I can change it?
Wendy:Yeah. Nice. I mean, because what you're suggesting too, which is is that the archetypes kind of live in the unconscious.
Carl:Yes.
Wendy:And that's a really important thing to know. Right? So then one of the things that I thought was really cool that you addressed in your workbook is that each archetype has can have a positive and a negative expression.
Carl:Yes.
Wendy:And it can you talk a little bit about that? Like, what that means and why that's important?
Carl:Yeah. I mean, you you can be a a wonderful, caring, loving mother or father, but at the extreme, the mother can be so controlling over her kids as can the father that it goes into a negative effect in some situations. And similarly, warrior can be great to defend those who need defending, but it can also, at some point, go into you're picking fights everywhere. And so as you become more aware of the way you really are due to some of these unconscious factors, you at least start to have a chance to think about changing them.
Wendy:Right. Okay. So then how do you approach even realizing what archetypes might be playing a role in your life?
Carl:Well, you can it's a little like I don't know if you ever done chiropractic work where they say everything's connected to everything else. So you can start by saying, Hey, who do I identify in the movies that I watch or in the stories? And who do I like and who don't I like? And what songs appeal to me? And so you start to get a picture of who you are in the world and maybe what some of your roles are by just reflecting on things like I just mentioned.
Wendy:Things you're drawn to.
Carl:Yeah. Things you're drawn to.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly.
Carl:Do like the stories where the underdog all of a sudden takes over, where there's a vigilante justice, or the downtrodden somehow rise up, or what whatever themes kind of appeal to you are instructive if one kinda noodles them to say, hey. How is this theme working out in my life, and would I like it to be different?
Wendy:Yeah. I think it's a really creative way to look at yourself through that lens of, like, well, what kind of entertainment am I drawn to? It's like a safe way to start exploring that territory. Let's talk a little bit about you definitely cover a lot of territory in your workbook, so we can't talk about all of it in our conversation, but maybe we can just highlight some of the areas that you do cover, like working with dreams or journeying, like doing a shamanic journey. So you do have some shamanic suggestions, exercise suggestions in the workbook.
Wendy:What value do you think we can get out of doing dream work, whether it's waking dreams or working with our like with shamanism or our dreams we have when we're asleep.
Carl:One of the things that I believe almost everybody I know at some point in their life is said, gee, why did I say that? Why did I do that? There's some action in the world. And my answer is, Well, because some part of you wanted to do it. And so you might have this dilemma that called ego conscious part, say, Gee, I'm not that person.
Carl:Didn't want to do it, but I did. So how do we uncover those unconscious influences on what we do? And that's the gist of this workbook. By working with these practices that give us glimpses of our unconscious that we otherwise may not have, we gain information that we can use, if we choose, to make changes in our waking everyday life. Dreams are a way to do that.
Carl:And I think she has some ways to work with dreams. And in my other books, go into it a little bit more deeply in some cases, and certainly with journeys. These are ways to access what I would call our inner wisdom. And I have found it, as have a number of people that I've worked with and that I know, find it very useful to start to give them another picture of who they really are and what's operating them. Doesn't make it necessarily, Wendy, in my experience, easier to change it, but at least you've got a starting point where you've got more data as to the way you think about it.
Wendy:Yeah. And what strikes me about that kind of work is that it's kind of bumping up against that more indigenous mind cultural world view that's relational. So it's about it's about discovering. Right? Discovering these unconscious aspects of yourself, but instead of, like, being ashamed of them or trying to get rid of them or it's about diving into them and making friends, at least from my perspective.
Wendy:I don't know if you see it that way too.
Carl:Yes. And sometimes this is as you get into this work, not all of them appear necessarily as friends. And this can be very disturbing to some people. For example, if you find an inner figure that you start to interact with, and I talk about a process called dialoguing, working with inner figures, that are hostile to you and say, Gee, Carl, Gee, Wendy, I'm here to get you. I'm here to hurt you.
Carl:Well, that can be overwhelming for some people until they learn to kind of work with those energies and say the parts of us, like right now that are talking, do have power at the end of the day to say, Hey, interfigure, I hear you, but I don't really wanna be talking to you when we have this mode. I wanna know more about why you have these feelings. And so in every case, if people continue the conversation, they get information that allows them, if not to have a new relationship, at least they have a detached for the moment and then go back to visit. So it's sticking with it. A similar idea is people do work with the plants or psychotropic things.
Carl:Sometimes they get big scaries that come. The wisdom is don't be foolish, but face into them. Somehow, mean, at the end of the day, that's all any of us can do. We have to face into these big scaries in our lives, including things that might ultimately injure us or kill us. Because a life lesson for me in that regard was that song, You Gotta Walk That Lonesome Valley, you gotta walk it by yourself, nobody else can do it for At the end of the day in this lifetime, you can have your spiritual guides, you can have your sense of source, but in the moment to moment, we're alone having to make decisions.
Carl:And that has been a freeing up realization, at least for me.
Wendy:Okay. Alright. It's been interesting over the years of my shamanic practice with folks that what I've discovered is that even those really unsettling parts of us, they seem to have a story to tell, that's why they're trying to get your attention with these kind of maybe not so positive messages that your inner dialogue is playing around with. And that and so we might see those as symptoms. And that if and that once you kind of have if you have the courage to actually hear the story so, like like, you're talking about we all have our stories.
Wendy:So, like, maybe there are many stories that we have unconsciously.
Carl:Yes.
Wendy:You start listening to what these different aspects of you have to say, and maybe why they're so afraid, or why they're so angry, or why they're so vicious feeling or critical or whatever, it can kinda take just give you a a little, I guess, empathy towards these aspects of you, which in turn becomes empathy towards yourself.
Carl:Absolutely. Yes. I agree a 100% with that.
Wendy:Awesome. Okay. Cool. I just wanna make sure I was on the same page as you in understanding what you're saying. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. So it's a it's such a direct way to connect, is by doing this sort of inner dream work, working with this more unconscious material through, well, journeying, shamanic journeying, or working with your dream material, or your dream stories. The tricky part, though, is interpretation, right? Do you find
Carl:that? Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
Wendy:What are your thoughts on why it's tricky?
Carl:Well, I would say a step prior to interpretation is to be a more and you used the word objective earlier in our talk, to be more objective a noticer, just kind of noticing things. And then before we start to put things into catalog boxes as, Oh, this is bad, this is good, we just notice it. No, it's just kind of the wind came up a time I didn't expect it to. It's not necessarily going to be a hurricane, but it just that's what it is. Then be kind of gentle as to the meanings we make, what that is.
Carl:And then do I now have, I Cora or I Wendy, some information from which I can make a decision that might be different than I otherwise would have had I not been patient enough to listen to whatever that voice was or that insight, and had I not noticed it. So I think the practice is it allows us to observe things and then make more informed decisions about how we may or may not want to change the way we move forward.
Wendy:Sounds great. Yes. That sounds like a really a really good way to to go about doing this. Alright. So let's shift gears and well, actually, before we do that, let's dive into the unconscious a little bit more.
Wendy:I'd love to hear your perspective on the nature of the unconscious, why it's important to look at it. I mean, because some people might say, well, let's just I'd rather not. I'd rather not open those doors. I'd rather not look at that stuff.
Carl:Mhmm. Well, what it is and, why I think it's important to work with it, let me kind of I think a lot of psychologists and Sergei Jungian psychology would say we have both a personal unconscious and a collective unconscious. And the personal unconscious would be stuff that, on one level, we've just forgotten. Or it was very unpleasant for us during our life, and we repress it, and we take it out of our consciousness. Let's say people that have big abuse or traumatic childhood household energies.
Carl:You put that out of your mind because it's so unpleasant. The collective unconscious is this world of the archetypes, and that's the energy that I was talking about, that energy before creation. The idea that that one energy is in everything, the one and the many. And the many, each of us has some of that eternal creative energy in us. So that's the collective unconscious that influences those roles and so forth that I talked about, as well as this personal unconscious, all these things that we've repressed.
Carl:Now, our personal unconscious can interact with the collective unconscious to energize certain archetypes more than others. And so we are dealing with this melange of figures and energies and thoughts and feelings that we normally don't bring to consciousness. But when we do, it gives us just a bigger picture of who we are. And my further belief is in all psychologies, in all shamanic work, there's two objectives. One, given that we all have a particular past, which is factually true, but how that lives within us, we have some flexibility to work with.
Carl:So you could have certain things happen to you. The meetings and how that has lived within you may have been a certain way, but you can change how you think about that such that in your current decisions, your day to day decisions, you are affected differently by your past than you were had you not done the work. So that's one piece of psychology and shaman work. The other piece is we all have a future. And there's a certain probability based on our life experiences and our DNA, just genetic inheritance, as to how that's going to turn out, health wise and mood wise and otherwise.
Carl:However, I think within, there's probabilities about how that outcome is going to be. But there's possibilities that go outside of that probability distribution that I think one can lock into by finding a future that between you and spirit or source, however you think about that, is better for you than any other. You're working with spirit to get a destiny that's optimal for you. And by so doing and locking it into that, that will affect the decisions you make in the present as well. So the work, my thought is, is to have a better relationship with your past differently, better different relationship with your future so that in the present moment, you're doing things differently than you would had you not done the work.
Wendy:Nice. I like that. One of the the questions that popped into my head while you were describing all of that was your how do you discern like a possible future path that's not influenced by wishful thinking? Yes,
Carl:that's where you do the journey work, you listen to your dreams. And I spent a lot of time talking about nature. And if you really start to believe that everything is connected to everything else and we're part of this bigger picture, it's amazing, and we're actively involved with nature, that nature is observing us just like we're observing nature. So let's say you are pondering, say, Hey, what's a better future for me? And you trust that there's answers in the universe to that question.
Carl:And maybe you're just sitting on your back porch and you're looking up at the trees and there's a sky that's kind of blue and the light's getting some of the leaves and you can see some plows and things are just floating by. And all of a sudden, you might have some insight around that question. It's not like a direct linear answer. It just says, hey, maybe the message is, there's bright and there's light. Things move and change shape.
Carl:Whatever comes to you in that moment, and that, just by being open to the fact that we're part of these bigger pictures, helps us to, I feel, gain comfort about some of the changes that we're trying to make.
Wendy:Beautiful. Very nice. Alright. So let's shift gears now to one of those topics that I I think is really crazy important, and that is resilience. And you have a chapter on on resilience.
Wendy:Why did you include a chapter on resilience in your workbook?
Carl:I think almost everybody I know is part of the human condition gets knocked on the keister periodically. And as we get older, stuff happens. And at some point, it's easier and easier. You run out of energy, just like you were talking about earlier. Maybe you're not remembering things like you used to.
Carl:What do you do in the face of these changes? So that's just a rhetorical question. I'll come back to that in a second. But one of the things I often would do, Wendy, when I was teaching a workshop, we'd go around at the end of a workshop, and people would just talk a little bit about their experiences and so forth. And then I'd have a rattle that goes around the room, and everybody rattles and talks and passes a rattle.
Carl:It comes to me, and then I might say, and then suddenly, because we all have suddenly in our lives, that everything is good and you know this, and then suddenly something changes. And what do we do when we have a suddenly, That's where I think we need this resilience to say, first of all, have to say, suddenly it's happened. We can do some things through this work that we're talking about to make some of these suddenly it's a little less likely, because we're no longer being guided as much by our unconscious. So we can do some things to make that happen less, I believe. But when it does, there's ways we can realize that even though we may be knocked down, we can get back up.
Carl:And let's say you've been a great athlete and you enjoy competing and this, that, and the other, and all of a sudden you do an irreparable arm to your leg, and you can't compete in the same way. Well, that's a big deal for a lot of people. So how can they get on with your life and not be so devastated? And that just is kind of working, in my opinion, with these inner things, with their relationship to a higher power, and, it having just a different attitude about what should be as opposed to what is.
Wendy:What do you think the side effects of not being resilient can be? Like, what would be some signs that maybe you aren't as resilient as you could be?
Carl:You seem in the eyes of others, and maybe you kind of give up a little bit. You say, Hey, the fight's not worth fighting anymore. I'm just going to hang on. So you start living more robotically, more unconsciously by whatever amount of TV you watch, you watch more. Whatever amount of stuff on your devices, you do more of.
Carl:You tune on. If you're done to drink, you drink a little bit more. If you're doing drugs, you do a little bit more. And any kind of self soothing stuff, you do more of it. Often that speeds up your health deterioration and you die quicker.
Carl:And so you kind of live out your remaining years, however they may be, in a much, sadder, more miserable way than had you been able to do something different.
Wendy:Great. Okay. I think, yeah, that was really well said. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I'm noticing just because the state of the world is a little precarious.
Carl:Yeah. It's
Wendy:so more and more people are kind of turning towards escapism because of the overwhelm and stuff, and the need to be resilient during a difficult chaotic time is probably more necessary than ever. Okay. So did you wanna say something about that?
Carl:But what was trying to say is this too shall shall pass, and we can only do what we can do both to protect ourselves and society. And hopefully by being creative and having a different relationship, Wendy, with our unconscious, I think we have a chance to gain some tools to do things differently than we would had we not done the work.
Wendy:Yeah. No, I agree. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. So let's touch on one last topic before we wind down the conversation.
Wendy:How do you recommend that people go about creating new habits? Because we are so deeply unconscious, and we don't necessarily, in our culture, have a relationship with practices that bring our focus inward. And so as adults, we're older when we're trying to do this work, and we're already so we're trying to create a new we're trying to find ourselves, when we haven't really been taught how to find ourselves. It can make it extremely hard, I think, to to create a new habit. How do you usually guide people around creating new habits?
Carl:So if we're kinda stuck in our old habits, we tend to do things today like we did yesterday. And if we want to have new ways of being, we have to have new actions. So that means, moment to moment, we're going to do things a little differently than we did the day before. So the first thing is just pick a few things that you want to have different. So you take an area in your life, I want to have different relationships with my loved ones.
Carl:I want to have different relationships with my health. I want to have different relationships with, say, my kids or my job or everything. So what can I do, just really a simple little thing to do differently? Now everybody, it's easy to talk about health, but okay, I'm going to have a little less alcohol if I drink. I'm gonna stretch for two minutes every morning.
Carl:So it's little things that I believe change starts at the margin, but you have to consciously decide I'm going to experiment. I'm gonna experiment with changes and see how they feel. So I do little things in all these areas. Maybe you've lost the ability to kind of listen respectfully to your loved one. Alright, so I'm just going to listen a little bit more.
Carl:Or maybe you've had a certain routine way of being with somebody for a long time that it's kind of working, but there's a little friction from time to time. You're just gonna ask your wiser yourself, What might I do a little differently? And then do a little change at the margin. Maybe that's not having the expressions on your face that you're used to. Maybe it's being nice.
Carl:Maybe it's listening a little differently. And my experience is one change can lead to another. And I talk about in the book how you can reinforce some of those changes, how you can layer them on. But it's kind of playing with you. You do things a little differently.
Carl:Let's say you brush your teeth with your right hand, you do it with your left You walk a certain way on your nature walk. You walk a little different way. Maybe you walk side to side and then walk backwards a little bit. You're playing with your routines in a playful way. Somebody wants a I love playing in the fields of the Lords.
Carl:I don't know exactly what that meant, but I love, I'm sure, some literary thing. So you're playing with life in a new way with a light touch, but try to incorporate tiny changes into your life. And I've 100% known that little changes can lead over time to big changes, but you have to be willing to start experimenting.
Wendy:That no, that's that's a that's a great response, because I'm wondering if most people are trying to do the big stuff, and then they get frustrated because they they end up sabotaging their attempts to create a new habit. And so by doing it with this more like gentle, playful, small step approach seems like a really, a really nice way to sort of let your, let your unconscious know, right, we can do this, we can make, we can make changes. See? Yeah. We brushed our teeth with a different hand.
Wendy:Yes. And made made a big mess, but it's okay. Yeah.
Carl:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Carl:Yeah. And play with this, you know, and and then be able to talk to yourself like this. Okay. Change can sometimes, your words, lead to a big mess. Okay, but it's really a big mess.
Carl:What do do? I have to clean the sink a little bit more. Got toothpaste on the sink. What I would call a big mess maybe- so you're playing with some of your preconceived ideas about how things are in a way that maybe could start to free you up.
Wendy:Yes. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. And it's I mean, what your workbook is really inviting people to do is to and it's in the title to access this inner wisdom, because we all have it.
Wendy:But we're just not in the habit of doing this. What I was trying to say before that we're just Exactly. It's just not part of our cultural worldview to do this kind of work from the get go. But it doesn't mean you can't learn it. It just takes a little elbow grease, but it's worthwhile because here's the deal is we seem to be going externally for all of our answers when we got them inside.
Wendy:We can figure shit out.
Carl:Yeah. You said that well too. I mean, we are more and more looking for outsiders, therapists, doctors to tell us what to do to be healthier and happier. And oftentimes that results on a say these 10 affirmations or change these habits or this, that, or the other. But that doesn't really get into these unconscious aspects of ourselves that are a source of both sabotage and also of liberation and wisdom if we relate to them differently, in my opinion.
Carl:That's what the book is about. And that's why I talk about getting ready to dye your bucket list and just all kind of exercises that give you different pictures of yourself in that unconscious part, so that you may have more freedom of action to make changes.
Wendy:I love it. Yeah. And I mean, there is a place for some expertise in our lives, but to to know that you can rely on yourself, and therefore develop that resilience when you do figure out how to rely on yourself, that can't be a bad thing.
Carl:Oh, no, I always stress in terms of health. You go to your Western medicine doctors, a lot of, depending on what branch of Western medicine you're in, a lot of it you're dealing with kind of acute issues.
Wendy:But
Carl:preventive, do how you get a stronger immune system, both psychologically and otherwise? And that's where you get into the integrative medicine and some of those other approaches that are trying to work at a different level with the goal of better health. But so with even within all these fields, there's different approaches to what we're talking about that that are worthwhile exploring.
Wendy:Love it. Yes. Alright. Well, Carl, are you actively working with any folks these days? Are you settled into retirement now?
Wendy:Are you doing any workshops or anything like that?
Carl:I I am not. You know, I'm I'm settled into retirement, and I'm not actively working with anybody. My outreach is my charities, my writing, talking to people like yourself, thinking out loud, and that's kinda where I am.
Wendy:Okay. I just wanted to check-in in case people were curious to know more about you. What would be a good way to do that?
Carl:I do have a web page where I put blogs up periodically. It's karlgreer.com.
Wendy:Wow. That's a weird that's a weird URL. That I'm just kidding. It's your name. Okay.
Wendy:Yeah. I mean,
Carl:that's my shadow. I don't know much about this world. And if you tell me it's weird, okay.
Wendy:I'm No. I'm I'm just I'm just totally to that. Totally being a smart ass right now.
Carl:I hear you. It's like I hear you. I I hear you.
Wendy:Alright. Well, thank you for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Absolutely.
Wendy:And I I wish you well with your health journey. Thank you. And I and your book sales too.
Carl:I I appreciate it. I enjoyed talking to you, Wendy. Thank you.
Wendy:I like Carl. He's a cool guy. If you'd like Carl to be your inner tour guide, please pick up a copy of his new workbook, go within to change your life at carlgreer.com. A link to his website is in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening and for your support of the podcast.
Wendy:It really truly means the world to me. Next time, I'll be back with an amazing conversation with a very gifted intuitive who lives right here in Vermont. Until next time.