Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this episode we sit down with Steve Birkett, EV Educator and Founder of Plug and Play EV. We discuss everything from NEVI Funding to EV Road tripping and how far the technology has come in the past decade.
Summary
Summary
Steve Burkett, founder of Plug and Play EV, discusses his journey as an EV driver and content creator. He shares his experiences driving a Bolt EV in the Northeast, including the challenges of winter driving and charging infrastructure. Steve emphasizes the importance of educating potential EV buyers and offers various platforms for sharing information. He also discusses the changing perceptions of EVs and the need to address concerns about range and charging. The conversation then shifts to the topic of NEV funding and the progress of charging infrastructure development across different states. The conversation covers topics such as the importance of EV infrastructure and marketing, trends and highlights from the auto show, the impact of software on brand loyalty, and the challenges and opportunities for traditional automakers in the EV market.
Takeaways
- Driving an EV in the Northeast during winter can present challenges due to slower charging and reduced range.
- Educating potential EV buyers is crucial to address misconceptions and concerns about range and charging.
- NEV funding is driving the development of charging infrastructure across different states, with a focus on filling gaps along travel corridors.
- The implementation of charging infrastructure involves coordination with utilities and can be delayed by permitting and utility work.
- The perception of EVs is slowly changing, but there is still a need to address concerns and provide accurate information to potential buyers. EV infrastructure and marketing are crucial for EV adoption, and initiatives like the Chargeway Beacon and interactive road trip planners help build confidence in EV ownership.
- The auto show showcased a growing number of EVs, with notable reveals from Polestar and Kia. EV startups like Rivian are finding success by creating their own events and focusing on brand experience.
- Software plays a significant role in brand loyalty, as it allows for personalized and updated experiences. Traditional automakers need to prioritize software development to compete in the EV market.
- Traditional automakers have made missteps in the EV market, but there is still a lot of opportunity for growth and market share. Tesla remains the leader in EV adoption and market perception.
- The EV industry is still in its early stages, and there is much more to learn and develop in terms of technology, marketing, and customer experiences.
Keywords
EV, electric vehicles, Bolt EV, Northeast, winter driving, charging infrastructure, EV education, range anxiety, NEV funding, charging network, EV infrastructure, marketing, auto show, trends, brand loyalty, software, traditional automakers, challenges, opportunities
Creators & Guests
What is Grid Connections?
Discover the future of energy in the Grid Connections Podcast. Join our expert host as we explore the latest innovations and developments in the world of renewable energy, electric vehicles, and sustainable transportation.
In each episode, we dive deep into topics such as the future of electric vehicles, charging infrastructure, and the impact of renewable energy on our society. We'll discuss cutting-edge technology, industry trends, and the challenges faced by those working to create a more sustainable future.
By listening to the Grid Connections Podcast, you'll gain valuable insights and knowledge from industry experts, policymakers, and thought leaders. You'll also have the opportunity to stay up-to-date on the latest developments in the world of sustainable energy and transportation.
Don't miss out on this exciting and informative podcast. Download the Grid Connections Podcast today and join us on our journey towards a cleaner, reliable future.
Good morning, great connections listeners.
Thank you for your patience on this last
two week hiatus.
In full disclosure, I just started a new
job at a flight school in central Oregon
and it has caused me to be able to have
some challenges with recording the last
couple of weeks and I'm hoping moving
forward there won't be as many delays but
just full disclosure that may happen in
the future again.
But today I'm joined by Steve Brichette.
He's an EV educator and the founder of
Plug and Play EV.
He shares with us his experience on
electric vehicles, especially kind of
living in the Boston area now, dealing
with sometimes the winter and cold of
Northeast US can be a challenge for EVs
and how he's been able to really excel and
make it easier and educate others about
the advantages of actually still being
able to go to an electric vehicle, even in
the cold and try to get over a lot of
those misperceptions.
I do also want to share that if you're
listening today on Wednesday, April 10th,
I'll actually be going live today at
5pm pacific on his youtube channel plug
and play ev where i'll be discussing road
tripping in an ev so definitely going to
be a great episode really recommend you
check that out and would love to kind of
get any feedback and thoughts for being on
other channels as well which reminds me i
want to say thank you for all of the great
suggestions for having people on our show
that you've sent to us
One thing worth noting though, if you can
also occasionally reach out to these
people that you're trying to get on the
show, it does help and it makes it easier
for us to get them on.
But really looking forward to some of the
upcoming episodes that we're working on.
And so I just want to say with that,
enjoy.
So thank you, Steve.
Yeah, thank you, Chase I appreciate you
having me.
Yeah, for anyone who might not be
familiar, can you tell us a little bit
more about what you're doing and then also
your company?
So I'm relatively new as an EV business, I
guess, but a long time EV driver.
So I've had about seven or eight years now
driving electric, but kind of came into
the business side of it as an EV content
creator and educator, I guess, about six,
seven months ago.
So Plug and Play EV started live as a
YouTube channel, just trying to kind of
bring the adventures of a lonely or
adventurous, depending on how you think
about it, bolt EV driver in the Northeast.
heading across various trips, but that
kind of evolved into a YouTube channel
that's got a nice little following now and
has slowly moved into becoming kind of a
marketer and content creator in the EV
space.
So I always try and put myself as an
educator first and business second, but
the two align quite well.
So I mean, yeah, a bolt driver, there's
especially in the Northeast with the
different weather and a lot of the
challenges you get up there.
Is there anything you can share maybe just
as a story that makes you a little
standout or a time that just you felt like
being a heavy driver, whether it was the
infrastructure of the car that really kind
of tested your metal?
All of it really.
Well, the Bolt's been a very solid EV, it
has its obvious limitations on the fast
charging side, because it's four or five
times slower than some of the more modern
cars.
But initially the channel kind of started
out of a, I wasn't even sure if it really
needed a channel because there were some
really good Bolt TV content creators, Eric
Way of the News Coolum channel out on the
west coast, was doing a great job from
California.
But I started to realise that charging
wasn't, as we all know now, charging
wasn't particularly great in the winter,
the cold of the north east.
as bad as maybe Canada or all the kind of
Minnesota type winters but it still
affects charging and I didn't see any
videos out there any content on that so I
started to kind of just film the sessions
figure out what I was doing and thought
well maybe that needs to be shared with
other Northeast bolt owners and it kind of
grew from that nucleus but yeah charging
infrastructure has been a big one since
day one obviously it's you know night and
day difference now but certainly still has
a ways to go in terms of reliability and
coverage in
areas but yeah just really starting to try
and get that information out there from
day one as a bolt TV owner to figure out
how we use these cars and what we need to
do to make the infrastructure better.
Yeah, that's great.
I know the bolts are pretty popular.
I'm just curious.
I haven't heard as many people are driving
them in the cold.
And so have there been any challenges that
you've had around just making sure that
the thermals and kind of road tripping or
do you see a pretty big hit when doing a
road trip?
Yeah, you
in the warmer months as it drops down in
New England.
And I'm in greater Boston, so it's not
exactly frigid, but it is below freezing
often enough.
And then you're getting charging rates
that are maybe in half, and the mileage
gets down to that 180, 170 miles.
So it's just about really knowing what
your long trips can then start to drag a
little bit, because you've got the hit of
range, you've got the hit of slower
charging, and that starts to get into a
little bit of drag.
many rip road trips I think you want to
take in the winter right so maybe
Thanksgiving down to Grandma's house
Christmas that kind of thing but January
February March we didn't typically do a
lot of road trips so really only those two
months of kind of the holidays were the
real kind of killers
Yeah, and so I appreciate you sharing that
with me from when talking about being an
EV educator.
And for those who are listening, I'm sure
that's something a lot of people who would
want to know more or kind of see some of
the stuff that you're doing.
And as I mentioned, you have your YouTube
video, but can you share some other kind
of examples of things that you do and
offer to kind of help others learn more
about electric vehicles?
Yeah, so I've got a long background in
content marketing, so I've kind of always
appreciated that using information to
share services.
So a lot of folks who are new to the EV
business world are also very good
educators or could be very good educators.
So the goal is really to take what those
folks do, whether it's myself or other
companies, and just figure out how they
can translate that into information that
connects with the consumers, the people
who are using
who have a little, not very much
experience in the EV side and figuring out
how to best communicate and package that
content to educate their potential buyers.
Could be the YouTube side of things,
videos, whether it's X, LinkedIn, there's
a bunch of platforms, but really it's
about figuring out what the potential
information provider can give to folks and
then packaging it in a way that they can
find it and consume it in the right kind
of length and something
That's right for them.
Yeah, so I'm kind of curious since you've
been doing this now for a while What are
some of the are there any trends that
you've seen about like a lot of people
used to ask about this or have these?
Misperceptions and that started to change
is that something you're saying?
It's almost reverted.
It's strange.
It's, you know, the first wave of folks
were very obviously early adopters and a
lot of people did their homework, you
know, way more than the dealers and people
they may go to seek help from.
So they, that first group of people,
yourself, myself, and a bunch of others
kind of went in knowing what we needed to
know, and probably a lot more that we
didn't.
But then the next wave has kind of, it's
starting to hit the, not the mainstream
exactly, but we're on that kind of tipping
point, right?
And you've got now a little pushback
against DVs, so you're seeing some of the
same kind of conversations you had for
people who were enthusiastic about
electric vehicles, but maybe had some
questions about, as you said, range in
winter, how they perform on long trips,
that kind of thing, and where to charge
them, of course.
That's coming back, and part of it is
because of the kind of media, it's
coverage that is not always negative, but
there's certainly a kind of hint of, will
these work?
Will they destroy the grid?
run out of juice on the side of the road
and none of that really happens to the
everyday you know early adopter certainly
and the infrastructure is getting so much
better that really those kind of range
concerns aren't that much of a real-world
problem but
The media perception is one that you have
to constantly morph and explain why some
things are valid.
People need to know what range they'll
get, what kind of charging speeds, how
many times they're going to stop.
But realistically you're not going to run
out on the side of the road unless you're
in a very unplanned road trip in the
middle of the Great Plains maybe.
Yeah, and it definitely does seem like
obviously there's the narrative and a
little bit of the clicks that drives from
that.
But it does seem like there's almost a lag
in the perception because in some ways,
like especially around the charging stuff,
a couple of years ago, yeah, it was pretty
bad.
And even like 18 months ago, it was pretty
bad.
And now it's definitely gotten a lot
better, a lot smoother.
And it's just interesting that now within
the last six months, you're starting to
see these stories.
So it just seems like it was kind of
lagging some of the perceptions and the
facts of what was actually happening.
And my apologies.
My dog is in the room and I think he's
just leaving.
So if you hear the noises, that's what it
is.
But talking about that, kind of looking at
that, what do you think are some of the
areas that when you have these
conversations, what are some of the things
that when you talk with the person that
they're like, oh,
I never thought about that and that kind
of then reframes the conversation and
starts to kind of get them excited or much
more optimistic and start to see like, oh
yeah, going to an EV really isn't a change
and actually it's a benefit for me.
I think the biggest thing is the gap
between when they'll need to refuel and
how, because the biggest focus is always
on road trips, especially in North
America, you have big dis-fast distances
to cover, those trips that people make
once or twice a year become the first
thing they think about, so you have a
range of 250-300 miles, although there are
EVs that do much more than that now, but
that's kind of the typical spot at the
moment.
People think, well my family's house is
400 miles away so I don't know the first
thing about how to get there.
So that's fine and that's a trip to plan
for.
Certainly it's good that they're thinking
about that.
But what they don't think about perhaps is
the other 50 weeks of the year when
they're not making those trips.
And you know, a lot of people can charge
in their driveway or at home.
You know, obviously there's different use
case scenarios for different residential
areas, but two thirds of the country.
consider an EV at the moment can charge at
home and get that benefit of, you know,
one-time installation of a home charger.
It's not generally that expensive.
Sometimes you can do it off the existing
connections, depending on your home
situation and how old the home is.
But really, the, you know, how much
benefit they're going to get from that to
wait like my car's ready to go now.
It's a 90% sitting there, you know.
just ready to leave the house because I
charged last night.
So you're cutting out that weekly gas
errand, and most people don't think about
that because it's just part of their lives
now.
They just stop for that five, 10 minutes.
But sometimes it's a dedicated errand.
Sometimes you wake up for the school run
and you haven't, you know, a person who
had it the previous day didn't fill it up.
And that's something you're cutting out of
your weekly day-to-day life, which is, you
know, most of the time, most of the year,
rather than this one trip that kind of
people fixate on that they will have to
figure out charging.
Yeah, it's funny you mention that because
I find like when I talk to people about
that kind of road trip misperception, I
think it's Uh, I think the logic and the
concern behind it is understandable But
it's kind of funny.
I now admittedly i'm kind of One of the
few people that does do road trips and
actually fairly frequently but multiple
times i've done About 1200 miles in a day
in an eevee and i've done it in a gas car,
too
And when people hear that, they're like,
oh, so it is even possible.
But then I've just also found right or
wrong.
I started like asking people and kind of
pushing them on it like the last time
they've gone on a road trip.
And for most people, it's not even like
once a year.
It has either been multiple years or
they're like, well, I guess I never really
have.
I usually fly.
And yeah.
right, of how much would you drive?
A lot of people do like to drive and
that's great, but if you'd like to drive
you'll probably like the EV side because
you get to have those nice stops every
200, 300 miles depending on your range.
But if it gets to that kind of, as you
were talking about, you know, if you're
getting to four digits of driving, that's
multiple days trips, you know, and at that
point the time concern really goes out of
the window because the flying parts of it,
unless you really have a lot of stuff to
move.
Right.
and it goes out the window.
So I never dismiss the long trip concern,
but it definitely takes up most of the
oxygen in the room when the local
day-to-day driving and how much driving
you actually do doesn't seem to register
with people, you know.
No, I totally agree.
I just think it's been interesting when
I've started really talking to people.
It just seems like more and more I've
pushed people on that and they're like,
yeah, I guess I really don't do those
anymore.
And I think that just is something they
kind of keep hearing.
And it and once again, I don't want to say
people don't do that.
I know plenty of people who do, but it's
just shocking to me.
Even over like the last five or six years,
when I've started like really talking to
people about that more than I like.
Yeah, I guess I've maybe only ever driven
four to five hundred miles in a day.
Yeah, I think that's all.
into the rare thing where I yell, I'll do
a thousand.
It's a long day, but even with an EV, it
does add time.
But if you're smart about it, it's really
not as big of a difference.
And like you said, it's kind of nice
actually, every hour and a half to two
hours, just to kind of get out for like
10, 15 minutes, walk around, stretch, and
kind of a good mental reboot.
on a road trip.
I mean, there are natural limitations just
to the human, but whether it's the car or
keep going, but the human has to stop,
stretch, eat, all the rest of it.
Exactly and I would definitely run into
those.
And I think that's where you just have to
be smart about it and try to figure out
where you want to make those stops or if
you decide you need to stop sooner.
That's kind of where it's important to
have not only just working charging
infrastructure but like a car with a
really reliable nav system where you can
say, okay, yep, this works.
Hopping out.
Exactly.
Previously we would make these road trips
around the Charger, you know, wouldn't
really gloss over that.
It was, we had to stop where the Charger
was.
So that, I quite often go from New York to
Ohio and that's a fairly well covered
route.
Now we see that changing every time we go
across.
Now you could stop at these brand new
throughway plazas that have four, six,
eight Chargers.
And you know, there's Tesla ones as well,
pretty close.
There's been a regular non-Tesla.
connectors as well.
So you've got the options there now but
that wasn't the case, you know, even as
you said, you know, 18 months maybe two or
three years ago certainly.
There was much more organization around
where the charges were than now when you
can start to get off the, you know, most
of these service platters, at least along
the routes that I travel.
Yeah, I think there's quite a few trips
I've done kind of through the Midwest, and
that is where you might get a little bit
more challenging, but like you're saying,
it's becoming more common to find these
things.
The actual infrastructure itself has been
more reliable for me at least.
And then the documentation, even if it's
not the car, just even the amount of apps
now that are pretty effective for planning
and finding these stops is made it a lot
easier.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's kind of that's what's going to
keep changing.
The big focus in the middle of the country
is really building out those travel
corridors with the funding that's going
through at the moment.
So if you look at the amount of changes
every week, but it was about last time I
checked, 56%, 57% of that funding has gone
to gas stations and truck stops, because
that's where those, when you think about
what's off and exit at most of these
places on travel routes, that's what's
there.
So a lot of these loves Flying J, Travel
Senses of America,
quite a lot of funding to put these things
in so that people really don't have to
think about it that much anymore.
Yeah, and I think that is an area that's
kind of especially I've noticed with a lot
of the public traditional public fast
chargers really struggled with putting in
some of these fast chargers were always
sometimes actually fairly far off the
road, especially if you're looking at
highway or interstate.
You really have to do a detour.
And it's really kind of good to see
whether some of that's the traditional
fast chargers.
But it does seem like more just the actual
traditional gas stations.
And.
large companies like the pilots and the
flying J's of the world, they're actually
making the investments themselves.
And so I think once again, just the more
visibility people see of electric vehicle
chargers, the more they realize it's a
actual possibility and the less of a
change it is to what they are now.
Because I think having to drive like 10
minutes off the highway to go find and
park in a Walmart definitely isn't the
most ideal experience for a lot of people.
And there being now enough EVs on the road
and interest around in general that
competition is forming and really pushing
the traditional, I guess, fueling
stations.
and those others in the space to really
either have to get their heck together or
just actually figure out a way to stay
competitive.
But I guess that kind of brings up one of
the things I know you wanted to talk about
a little bit today was just around NEVI
funding.
So I'd really love to kind of get your
thoughts on it.
We've definitely had a few guests on the
past that have shared kind of updates
around it, but I would really love to hear
what you've been seeing and what you want
to discuss with us today, Steve.
Yeah, so it's kind of interesting the
Northeast has received.
the most nevysites in the world, at least
the ones that are energized.
It's still in the single digits, but we
have a few in New York that have received
some funding.
The first Tesla federally funded Tesla
site went live last week, I think, in
Maine, which is a visit I have to plan at
some point as the weather improves.
But so a lot of the, I think the first in
the nation was Ohio, then we went to
Pennsylvania, there's one out in Hawaii.
So you're starting to see a little spread.
Obviously these are very different
locations.
here.
maybe the up in Maine.
But, you know, the biggest piece is, I
think, that these are starting to make...
other networks, maybe outside of Tesla and
Electrify America, which were kind of the
first two to cross the country and make a
strategic nationwide network for all of
their limitations perhaps in Electrify
America.
The one thing they did do is build out a
very large nationwide network across two
or three routes fairly quickly.
And what you're trying to see the NEVI
funding doing initially is filling in
those gaps and say, for every 50 miles of
interstate along these alternative fuel
corridors that have been designated in
each state.
so that they have exactly what we've just
talked about, is locations within a mile
of the interstate exit and somewhere that
even if one is busy, you can roll onto the
next one and know that you're gonna be
good to fill up your EV.
So I think it's interesting that has kind
of driven a lot of these states and you
see the gaps in preparation now because
states like New York and Ohio, which had a
previous plan, they were already working
on this at the state level, whether it was
through power authorities or departments
of transport, they've started to say,
got this map, existing map, that we wanted
to fill.
Now we've got federal funds coming in to
help us and they can start to drop the
pins in places that they really need to
fill in those gaps.
Other states are just scrambling and on
the back foot to be like, I don't know
where to put these things, we've never
been through the process of sighting, you
know, looking at a map, figuring out where
the power is, trying to contact the right
site hosts, all of this stuff that goes
into the long, long...
process of getting a charger in the
ground, which I don't think people
appreciate can be 18 to 24 months is quite
reasonable for that from an initial
conception to actually energizing a site.
So there's a lot of work that goes into it
and I think the states that are leading
that, you can see that they've had some
kind of planning ahead of time.
But the end result is going to be the
country, if the states get their plans in
place, covered with at least four chargers
of 150 kilowatts or more and having that
capability.
ability to just roll off the site, roll
off the end state, keep going once you've
done your whatever you do on a rest stop.
Yeah, I think it's great to finally see
some of those funds turn from just kind of
projects and announcements to actually
things people can go and use and kind of
hope to see that accelerate further.
I know some of the states have kind of
been slow to adopt it and some of that
also has just been due to all sorts of
changes along the way.
Not just obviously part of that is
announcements by automakers kind of moving
towards the North American charging
standard.
But it also just seemed like there was a
lot of questions even around how to.
define and read and what some of these
requirements actually stood for.
I know a big one was the variance in
voltage.
And now we're trying to, we're finally
seeing a lot of this alignment happen.
And now that these projects are on the
ground, I'm hoping that for those states
who have kind of been laggards or just
kind of waiting to have them, the more
clarity that now that they're seeing that
the funds are being made, this isn't being
kind of on hold, it'll be kind of what
gets the momentum for these other states
to get their projects online as well.
Yeah, there's quite a few.
I know Wyoming is one and there's a couple
other states where more charging
infrastructure on the interstate would be
awesome.
They have been lagging a little bit with
that implementation.
Yeah, there's certainly some of those
states that really could have benefited
from it.
It's not, you know, it seems to be a
political divide thing sometimes, but
you've certainly got, you know, your
Ohio's and Texas seem to be trying to
forge ahead.
And about half the states, pretty close to
half of the states now have, you know,
announced some kind of funding and
they've, usually when they announce the
first round of awards, that means sites,
you know, they actually identify where the
sites are going to be.
So that is pretty, you know, then you're
just into the construction phase, which
is, you know, depending on the location.
It could be 50, 60 days or on the upper
end, closer to three months.
But it's fairly quick turnaround.
That's why you'll start to see a bunch of
these rolling in.
The initial chikrin has been that it's
been two years or two plus years since the
legislation was announced and they really,
how does it take this long?
Well, probably three quarters of that was
just the plans, getting the plans in
place.
So you see the early States starting to
move.
And as you said, I think there's going to
be a little bit of neighborly rivalry of
my next door neighbor.
once CVs hit that kind of tipping point at
the mainstream, people will be saying, you
know, why is that state so good, you know,
well covered and why can't I drive, you
know, down the road to my local kind of
family in West Virginia or Wyoming or any
of these places that have kind of left
things a little bit late.
Yeah, it's also been really interesting
looking at, you talk about some of the
delays, and I think for the Nevi funds and
some of the IRA funds, a large part of
that was the actual kind of definition of
getting that clarity around what these
will be.
But I think one of the common things I
hear from people who are a little confused
as to like announcements around charging
and.
even when it's not, and it's why it takes
so long, is just the implementation and
what needs to be done from the utility
side.
I think even the other day, Tesla's kind
of been famous for that they've now been
building their charging sites almost
essentially pre-fab, and then they just
almost just drop ship them and it's ready
to go, and they just said they set a new
record with doing that in four days.
And so I think a lot of people see that
four day, like, oh my God, this is great.
This is gonna make it so these can be done
all the time.
I might be able to go one place, and then
next week
the actual site live and is that possible?
Sure, but I think the biggest challenge
that's been facing getting more in the
ground outside of even that funding,
that's in some ways it slowed a couple
things down but now we're kind of just
seeing that more cohesive building of it
has really been around the permitting and
getting the work from the utility and
trying to get that.
moving faster because that alone to itself
can sometimes mean a site takes up to a
year to get approved or getting the new
transformers, other site improvements that
need to be done actually by the utility
before the charge point provider even
shows up and puts something in the ground.
So I'm curious if there's any thoughts you
have around that or if you've as an EV
educator worked with any utilities to kind
of help them highlight ways that they
could be doing
seeing if there's ways they can kind of
speed up that.
Yeah, I haven't worked with anyone
specifically on the process itself, but
certainly the communicating out where
they're going and how these sites are
going in is a big piece of it.
So I was down in the New York
International Auto Show last week with the
New York Power Authority, sorry, week
before now, with the New York Power
Authority.
And that was really insightful to hear
what their challenges have been, because
they've been through it, as I say.
They were doing this two or three years
before the NEDD funding was really there
because
this stuff out and we're literally the day
after the eclipse here.
And a lot of those sites that they had the
foresight to put in that weren't along
these major east-west routes which is
typically commonly what you've seen in
other states, they've built out into these
more remote areas like the Adirondacks
which go up to the New York and Canada
border down in the southern tier of the
state which is kind of mid-state I guess.
So a lot of these places that people want
to access in an EV in a relatively high
adoption state,
those authorities knowing that they needed
to put that in was a big piece of it.
Then you obviously have to communicate out
where these things are, how people can use
it.
So the piece of the auto show was a very
large booth, you know, by the EV test
track, fittingly.
So they could hear, you know, EVs, they
could go and have a really, you know,
exciting test drive, get all the kind of
bums in seats parts of the EV adoption
piece kind of checked off, and then come
over to this booth and see right on a
practical level
how do I charge the thing?
Yeah, I know it's fun.
Yeah, I know I like the vehicle.
But to your point, where is the
infrastructure?
Is it looking good near my house?
Is it looking good 200 miles from my
house?
So for New York State specifically, stuff
like the Chargeway Beacon that they use,
which is an app that you can have on your
phone, but it's like a very big kind of
kiosk version of that app.
So people can literally stand by the map
and then move around with an
in their state and beyond, plan road
trips, that kind of thing.
So getting those kind of marketing assets
out there is really, really valuable
because that's much more of an interactive
piece, right?
So someone can tell you the vehicle has
300 miles and that's great, but then when
you look at a road trip planner and see,
right, this is what that road trip of 500,
600 miles looks like, that's quite a big
educational piece of getting people
confident that they can make this work for
them.
Yeah, definitely.
And that's great to hear that Chargeway
had one of their beacons there.
We've actually had Matt on the show before
a couple of times and definitely big fans
of what they're doing, trying to help
around that education, make the charging a
lot simpler for people.
I'm curious, being at the Yacht-O-Show,
were there any things that you, I guess
one, were there any EVs or other new cars
that you saw that you liked?
I'm curious if there was any other...
just kind of interesting trends you were
seeing in general since you had both
combustion, electric vehicles, I guess
also hybrids there as well.
Yeah, hybridization is a big piece for
some of them.
Obviously Toyota will always lead that
kind of side of things.
And they always have a massive, massive
booth.
A lot of these things was Electrify Expo
in New York a couple of years ago.
They had pretty large showing.
But just in general, I kind of go dip in
and out of auto shows.
But I'm certainly seeing a lot more EVs on
the floor.
I think it was somewhere between 40 and 50
electric vehicles that were on show.
they would have been maybe five to ten.
The big reveals were actually
you know, for most of the brands seem to
be either plug-in hybrids or, you know, a
new version of something that they had
previously produced, which was combustion.
So maybe the big reveals weren't electric
this year, but we had Polestar 4 was
unveiled there and they, or at least they
showed the North American version, the
pricing.
So Polestar CEO Thomas Inglath was, you
know, there on site to kind of push EVs.
And obviously Polestar as an EV only brand
is going to, you know, take a lot of
attention for electric vehicles.
Kia EV9 won a couple of awards, not just
the World Electric Car of the Year, but
also the World Car of the Year.
Hyundai IONIQ 5N won the performance car
of the year, which I don't know, put a few
noses out of joint I think for people who
want to hear a roar of an engine when
they're performance vehicles.
But just generally every automaker, even
GM, which in the past has disappointed me
because they kind of, you know, they had a
lot of all GM promises, but only really
the next gen vehicles weren't really on
display, weren't delivered.
We had the Silverado EV, Blazer EV,
Equinox EV.
So I start to get to a point where I can't
remember all the models.
That's a good sign that the automakers are
doing a good job.
Good job.
And then with that, I mean, there are
obviously a lot of people there.
I'm kind of just curious what, the big
thing has always been Tom bad.
And I have found it effective, just
getting to know butts in seats and people
driving cars.
I'm just curious if there were any other
things that you've seen that's really
effective to get people kind of over that
initial hump or kind of confusion around
EV and just what you found as far as maybe
just the tone and.
thoughts from people at auto.
I just feel like auto shows, they've been
struggling honestly for a long time and
especially since COVID.
And so I'm just kind of curious if you saw
a lot of just normal people going there to
check out cars in general or was it more
of a press announcements with a personal
connection, a part to it.
I'm just kind of curious to learn a bit
more about the tone and anything that
stood out to you.
because I went on the media day, so I
really only saw the people.
They were doing their unveils, you know,
so it was much more of a kind of big
splash trying to make headlines, that kind
of thing.
So you got some of the flavor.
But most of these people are inside
baseball.
They know, you know, they're either
pro-EV, maybe not so much for EV, but
whatever they were, they knew their stuff.
Day to day, I think, I mean you're right
on auto shows in general, I think there's
a lot less buzz around them than there
used to be.
There still were some decent
announcements, but you know, it's not what
it was in terms of this is where
everything will happen.
I think you're seeing, like for example,
you know, Tesla wasn't there, so
immediately that's, you know, more than
half of the EV market in the United States
not covered.
Although I think they did then a couple of
days later, they must have known that
there was a crowd in town because they
were in town with a cyber truck dragging
around a Tesla Model Y in a
case around Manhattan so there's
definitely some activity around that.
Rivianne actually down in their showroom
down there in the meatpacking district had
the R2 on display.
I don't know if the R3 was there.
I didn't get a chance to go down but so
you I think you're seeing around when
there are these big events and they know
people are in town they will
put events around it, but then not the new
automakers, the new EV only automakers,
other than Polestar, were trying to find
other ways to do these big reveals rather
than the traditional auto show.
And as far as people go, I think, it's
still a nice family event.
I think if you can go out and spend an
hour or two looking at the cool cars,
that's great.
But I think for pure EV adoption, you're
probably looking at more of these, like
the month we're in right now is Drive
Electric Earth Month, right?
Stuff like that, the kind of grassroots
level, people being able to go to these
events
have an actual test drive, because even
the test drives weren't really, there were
ride-alongs at the auto show rather than
actual test drives.
So stuff like Electrify Expo, which is in
a bunch of different cities this year,
those have actual test drives and slightly
bigger tracks.
And if you go to these events that are,
you know, just EV owners taking their
vehicles because they're early adopters
and they kind of, you know, want to show
them off, you get a lot more of these kind
of real world stories, I think, so
they'll, and they'll tell you, you know,
most EV owners aren't shy about saying,
this journey was a nightmare, this was
perfect.
These are the ones that, this is where
it's gonna have a problem.
Pretty much, yeah.
And I think that's kind of that EV
educator piece again, right?
It's not really, this isn't a particularly
old industry if you take it as the modern
kind of mile marker, starting with the
Nissan Leaf and then the Tesla Model S.
And for five years, we really didn't have
that much activity.
I didn't come into it until that bolt kind
of 2016, 2017 point, so it's not.
very long in the toothless industry.
There's a lot of stuff to learn still, and
it's all changing every month.
There's something new happening in
charging, in the models, in the technology
most months.
So you really just have to stay on top of
it and then pass that knowledge on to
people who are coming into it just from a
complete blank slate, I think.
Yeah, I think that's some great points
about just it seems to be most effective
when it is more of a grassroots thing than
by current owners.
I do want to take one step back though,
because you mentioned something that kind
of was interesting around like how Tesla
and Rivian more of the I mean, I don't
think you really call Tesla startup
anymore, but they've always had definitely
count at least a startup mentality in
their business approach.
And so I was just curious when you see.
I think it kind of goes back to what I was
asking earlier about just like the current
state of honor shows and it's very
interesting to see that in Rivian doing
their own things, taking advantage of some
of the buzz of being in town and people
there, but also just kind of like, yeah,
we're going to do our own thing instead of
having to pay for it.
Is that, I'm just kind of curious of your
thoughts of that strategy because
obviously we're talking about it.
It is creating buzz.
And I had seen some headlines, I had been
kind of busy, so I hadn't really fully
appreciated that those were all both
around the time of the New York Auto Show.
I'm just kind of curious on your thoughts
if those are the ways that maybe more
traditional auto companies need to start
thinking more to really be positioning
EVs, to kind of stand out and do things
that are a bit different to get that
interest.
I think so.
I mean, it's, you know, from a broader
marketing perspective, you know, you
either put your marketing kind of efforts
into somebody else's hands with an auto
show to an extent.
I mean, obviously you have the design and
the creative, but you're also putting
yourself into a very loud environment.
So yes, you can probably come out and
maybe that's part of the awards.
You know, I mean, I don't know how many,
how much people really put stock in these
awards, but they certainly, you know, all
the band.
Manufacturers will make big noise about
these things, but it's only one piece of
maybe four five six other automakers with
big announcements So you're competing for
that attention and there's only so much
writing and so many articles that people
can put out, right?
So Rivian having a presence in New York
for that was smart, but then they did the
big reveal for the R2 and the R3 I think
it was probably three or four weeks before
and that
Yeah.
bubble, we hear all of this stuff anyway,
it's never gonna pass us by, but they
certainly, you know, for the size of the
company and how much presence they, you
know, don't have a massive presence in the
US just yet, but that took a lot of
attention, you know, it's the R2 being in
a relatively affordable, you know, family
SUV and not being launched at one of the
biggest auto shows in the country at the
time of its launch, you know, is notable.
And I think they get to define that then,
they get to own that experience,
It's true.
in Laguna Beach, they're trying to push
this kind of adventure or kind of
outdoorsy family adventure brand vibe.
And you can still do that.
Super is a good kind of contrast because
they have that and they'd always have a
really good booth.
It's an experience and they define that.
But they're only a piece of the wider show
in that, whereas Rivian completely owned
the launch of that.
And I think you go back and see an
automaker, traditional automaker doing
The ID Buzz is a good example, right?
They did the kind of Surfside California
thing to kind of launch the ID Buzz.
you know, give it that brand value for the
surfing kind of beach side atmosphere.
And you wouldn't get that as an auto show,
or if you did, it would be very kind of
fake and artificial.
So I think that real world define it,
choose your timing, you know, do it on
your terms is going to be valuable for,
and then EV is a chance to do that.
You know, it's a chance to reinvent how
you do the vehicle, certainly, but also
how you market, how you sell to people.
So I think it's an interesting way to kind
of change things up and maybe
things that worked in the past but are
kind of going by the wayside now.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think it's interesting when you
using the example of Rivian, just looking
at the I think it's interesting everything
you just said, but specifically when you
reference Subaru, because I think so much
of the buzz in the comment section after
the
Rivian announces like, oh, this is going
to kill Tesla or this is all this is going
to sell millions and millions of copies,
which who knows?
It might it looks like actually a pretty
awesome car.
I know a couple of people who already put
down reservations for him.
But I think in practice, once you actually
get into reality and out of the comment
section online, I think what you said
about server is really interesting and
pretty accurate.
As someone who's owned a couple of servers
and know plenty of people that still do
like.
I know some people who went to Tesla, but
in a lot of ways it's a different kind of
psychographic if you wanna look at it as
for like the buyer and stuff.
And there really hasn't been as great of a
focus or niche for that kind of lifestyle
or building those products, especially in
that price point.
And so, while I think a lot of media
narrative and the comment section is
always talking about, oh, this is gonna.
It's either Rivian versus Tesla, which I
don't think it is at all.
To me it's more like if you're a legacy
automaker, especially like a Subaru who
has had a niche, but overall is actually
pretty small volume in the US, but it's
one of their larger markets still as an
automaker.
That's really the concern is to see a
brand like Rivian that's getting those
people that have been kind of your tried
and true so excited about EVs and so
excited about a new product that really is
focused on them that.
I it's just been interesting to see that
with the other.
You can kind of say that with Tesla when
they first got into the space around the
traditional premium European automakers.
And now they've even kind of come down a
little bit.
Well, I would still say it's a premium car
in a lot of ways.
Their price point and what they offer kind
of makes them competitive with like a
Honda and Toyota and their volumes and as
well.
And so it's.
I'm curious if there's anything that
you've been seeing that the way that the
new EV startups or startup mentality has
been pushing automakers and why you don't
think that there has been more concern or
outward expression by like the legacy
automakers, especially if you're the CEO
of Subaru, what are you doing after the R2
was just announced?
long term, a pretty serious long term risk
to them as a company.
Yeah, it's interesting, you know, long
term versus short term, right?
Because I think, you know, you're still
going to sell a lot more.
Toyota's than you are Rivian's or Subaru's
even than you are Rivian's but that brand
loyalty only goes so far I think you do
see it translate a little bit That's why
stuff like the VZ4X from Toyota and the
Subaru Salterra will sell even though
they're not particularly great EV from a
nerd kind of point of view don't charge
fast don't really do anything that special
There's a brand loyalty that will extend a
little bit, but you're right long term I
mean these are you know Rivian is a brand
that is forging it It's really well done
everything they put together is well
crafted as an outdoors package.
So it's not just the R2 that they launch,
it's a tent.
Whether it comes to fruition or not is
another thing because everybody wanted
their camp kitchen for the R1-2 but that
doesn't seem to be coming.
But they still have accessories, they are
kind of geared to putting together an
ecosystem.
So I think the other side of it that is
maybe pushing traditional automakers is
software.
and leading with that kind of piece of,
you know, the car will do a lot of the
work for you or the infotainment and the
software regularly updating itself, having
a vehicle in the driveway that is not
going old by the model year, you know,
it's getting updated as you go.
I think you see a little bit of that with
Ford.
They've probably been the most prominent
US automaker at least that has kind of
started to drop a lot of updates.
You know, there's a lot of power-ups that
come through and they've led obviously
with the...
transition to an ACS with the adapter.
Part of that is software as well.
There's a lot going on behind the scenes.
People couldn't get that vehicle charging
on, you know, Tesla superchargers, even if
they had the adapter without that software
update.
So you have to have that system in place.
So it's not trivial, you know, Tesla has
been building this for years and has just
led with it as a software first kind of
company.
Rivian is taking that to a similar kind of
level for the outdoor stuff and tweaking
your vehicle for, you know, being able to
adjust ride height,
for towing all these kinds of things that
maybe manual before, you're starting to
see them come as not just software that
comes with the vehicle, but software
updates over the air.
And I think that's challenging a lot of
the traditional automakers, certainly
iDrive and IONIQ 5, and it's not.
It's night and day difference.
I do get over the air updates, which was a
step up on my Bolt TV, but they are once
every half a year, I think, and usually
it's something like the icons change and I
get a new map interface or something,
other manufacturers or EV startups or EV
first companies are dropping these things
with all kinds of new features and things
that actually affect your ownership
experience.
Yeah, I think especially around the
conversation with like long-term and when
you look at like kind of brand loyalty
that the software Is I think been kind of
the biggest Achilles heel and maybe not
fully appreciated I think a lot of people
even still kind of like oh, yeah, that was
cool We
put a lot of money into it, but it's just
turned out to be such a big hassle and Ken
has now dismissed it.
But like your time out with Rivian,
especially, like I think that is a huge
component while there is a lot of their
marketing and the hardware and the camp
kitchen and all these sorts of things that
they've kind of tried to put a focus on to
even reinforce that alignment.
I think
the people who actually buy the cars and
then that day-to-day experience and become
those kind of grassroots and other people
like pushing it, the software makes a huge
difference in that experience for them to
kind of feel like they are having a fine
tailored experience unlike what they would
have gone from driving a Subaru or
something.
And don't
I think it's just really interesting to me
that software is a big component, I think,
of that long-term brand loyalty.
And I know that me personally, that's been
a big thing for me, and especially when
you are going, as we started on, like long
road trips, like if you're gonna, it
almost seemed like for a while that you
had Tesla.
I think Porsche had a little bit, but
unfortunately it's not like they're a very
accessible EV, but those are two cars that
had pretty good route planning and that is
once again such a big part of the EV
experience and that is driven by software.
And so I'm curious to see how, and Rivian
obviously is now kind of gone up and
they're sending a lot of these updates
very frequently.
And I do think that when you look at the
long-term strategy for these
EV focused companies that is probably
going to be the big one of the big three
things that makes them the companies that
will be taking so much market share long
term from the traditional companies is
that software that leads to a much more
engaging and kind of personalized
experience.
I'm curious if there's any other things
that you've seen that have really impacted
the brand loyalty for EVs or things that
have kind of made.
you either loyal to your both or now kind
of more loyal to the Ionic as just like as
far as these kinds of special things that
stand out for you.
No, I think actually it's almost the
opposite.
It's done a kind of reset on brand loyalty
for a lot of, at least early adopters, I
don't know how their early mainstream will
kind of position themselves, but I think
the reason I chose the IONIQ was purely
the new platform, the 800 volt platform
and the charging.
So it's been, you know, we've gone from
40, 50 minute stops to 20 minute stops.
for our charging needs.
So, you know, it gives a little more
flexibility on travel, but I don't think
other than being quite impressed with that
EV technology, that I'm a Hyundai or Kia
or any other kind of loyal customer.
And that wasn't the case.
I've kind of loved the Bolt actually.
It was a really good car that I'd happily
have again as a kind of second EV.
But again, GM has made some missteps.
And in terms of the software kind of thing
that we're talking about, Hyundai hasn't
really pulled up any trees in delivering,
you know.
regular updates and kind of system that's
probably the weaker parts of the car.
I don't think any of them have really,
including the new, the new manufacturers,
you know, there's Tesla has its following,
of course, you know, that's, that's a huge
kind of driver in the industry.
But even them, I think you're seeing how
do they crack this mainstream?
You know, there's a whole pool of people
out there who are brand new to electric
vehicles, and there are some kind of
segments that will stay with a Subaru,
that will stay with Toyota because they
know it and they have that brand value.
But I think it's splintering and
fracturing to a point where you say, well,
yeah, Toyota can build an excellent,
reliable combustion car or a hybrid car.
But I don't think I think everybody has a
track record to create now with
electrification.
And I think you're seeing brands like
Hyundai and Kia.
trying to kind of reinvent themselves.
Like their design side has gone
completely, you know, in the opposite
direction.
And a lot of really taking advantage of
the form factor of EV is being able to
stretch out that wheelbase, make more
space inside the car, you know, take away
the tunnel.
There's a bunch of different things that
are kind of going into this transition and
it's an opportunity for a lot of
automakers to start to really move.
I think what you're seeing though is, you
know, some
Some automakers, traditional automakers,
fumbled the ball a little bit.
Nissan being a good example, you know,
we've talked about them starting the
movement with the Leaf and then just kind
of going off on a weird side track, kind
of failing to deliver their Nissan area at
a time when it would have been pretty good
EV and then launching it at a time when
it's basically, you know, one of many,
many crossover SUVs in the market.
GM, another good one, you know, came to
market pretty before, you know, Tesla
really with the Model 3.
They had the Bolt TV doing that 250, 300
miles, you know, before Tesla had that
Model 3.
But again, just kind of the switch to
Altium has been really kind of...
Fumbled a little bit, you know the
software side seems to have been a problem
They haven't managed to ramp up production
as quickly as they wanted So then
discontinuing the bolt as a you know, the
most affordable EV on the market You just
see these kind of semi
the missteps that, you know, they could
have built both of these manufacturers,
General Moses and Nissan, very different,
but they could have built quite a loyal
base of EV followers and adoption, and
then build from there to prove that
they've got the kind of chops to become an
EV only, or at least an EV primary
manufacturer.
But I think it's just a big opportunity
for everybody.
You know, there's a lot of, a long way to
go.
Nobody has really convinced everybody,
except for Tesla, that they can make and
market EVs, you know, that are compelling.
consistently.
So it's kind of early days, even though it
seems like we've been here for a long
time.
It's a lot of road ahead of
Thank you for joining us today and a big
thank you to Steve for sharing his
experience and thoughts on the EV industry
with all of us today.
I really appreciate everything that people
have been doing to send feedback as well
as share recommendations for guests on the
show.
I also hope that it wasn't too obvious
that I recorded this episode at 5 a .m.
my time, but some of these things that
we've had to do kind of on the fly with
the new job, but hoping to kind of get to
more of a...
rhythm that should make it a lot easier
and kind of get back to where we were
previous to the little hiatus there.
Once again remember this evening I will be
on and this evening being Wednesday April
10th I will be on Steve's podcast as well
talking about EV road tripping at 5 p .m.
Pacific.
Once again thank you and until next time
this is the Grid Connections podcast
signing off.