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Barney's Tavern is a corner booth for people who care about this country.
Chris LaBossiere sits down with thoughtful, interesting Canadians — and take the time real ideas deserve. Generals. Entrepreneurs. Policymakers. Artists. Creatives. Builders. People shaping Canada in visible and invisible ways.
The goal isn't debate. It isn't performance. It's curiosity.
My guest today has spent twenty years asking the questions that make powerful people uncomfortable. I'm Chris Labossiere here. This is Barney's Tavern, Conversations with Interesting Canadians Doing Interesting Things. Pull up a chair. Vassy, welcome.
Vassy Kapelos:Hi. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Chris Labossiere:Thank you, and I'm going to try to do my best with probably the best journalist and anchor in the country who does ask the toughest questions. I'm not even going to try to compete with any of that. So hopefully we just have a chance to have a conversation. Let's Swift Current Saskatchewan. You chose that.
Chris Labossiere:Nobody ends up in Swift Current by accident as far as I know. Tell me about that.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, I chose it through great fortune, I would say now looking back on it. I basically had started My only journalism experience was this post grad program. So I had gone through my undergrad and master's and sort of decided at the end of that, that this is something I wanted to kind of take a leap and try. And I knew I wanted to do TV journalism because I consumed a lot of it growing up. And I did this post grad program that was like four months all day, every day for five days a week at a college teaching you how to be on air, to video, how to and during that, the course of that course, the teachers constantly said, like, you just can't walk into a big market.
Vassy Kapelos:You can't just go on TV and breakfast television in Toronto here. Like you need to go somewhere and learn the craft of doing this. And I took them literally. And so I made two applications toward the end of that program. There was a job opening in Swift Current and a job opening in Prince Rupert, I believe.
Vassy Kapelos:And Swift Current replied first. And I did like an over the phone interview, like there wasn't even FaceTime or anything then. And I got the job and I literally packed up with my sister and we flew to Calgary, I think. And then we were going to fly to Regina and drive from there. And she had like an ear something happened to her ear.
Vassy Kapelos:So we couldn't so we had to take a bus and arrive at Swift Current at like 3AM with all of my life's belongings. And that sort of was the beginning of everything. So I ended up being there for about a year and it was my first job and it was one of those like all encompassing you shoot, edit, you do. I did six stories a week for this sort of like independent news thing that also aired on the public television. It was like the biggest learning curve ever.
Vassy Kapelos:And I'm so fortunate that I mean, like I look back on it with, I mean, I didn't feel it at the time, but I look back on it with great fondness.
Chris Labossiere:What, what, like, what, what, did Swift Current teach you that Ottawa, where you are now as an example, never could have? Curious.
Vassy Kapelos:Everything. Humility, first of all. Like I said, I had my master's and you kind of think you're hot stuff in a way, right? Like I am an expert in something. It was absolutely ridiculous that I thought I could bring anything to the table there compared to what experience gives you in this industry, in its profession more largely.
Vassy Kapelos:And so I think, you know, right away I was doing stories like, how long is this crosswalk? Is it too long for the seniors and steak slizzler luncheons and the blueberry festival? And I just really was, brought back down to earth in a way that apparently I needed it to be. And it made me appreciate that actually what people make look easy in this business is anything but. And it's instead the product of like learning how to, in that case, I was a reporter.
Vassy Kapelos:So I had to learn how to write, how to put together clips, how to pick good clips, how to do interviews, how to like multitask all that stuff and make it make sense for a wide audience and condense a lot of knowledge into a small amount of time. Like so many different things that I just took for granted, I think. So it taught me like what was necessary to actually like become a reporter. It taught me a lot of humility. And then more broadly, it exposed me as someone who grew up ignorant in the middle of Downtown Toronto to what people in rural Canada think about.
Vassy Kapelos:And that's not a generalization. It obviously depends on a lot of things, but people who live in smaller places in rural places in Western Canada, all things that had I just gone from Toronto to Ottawa, I would have probably remained ignorant for years and years. And ultimately all these years later, I think greatly informed the approach I take to a whole myriad of subjects and interview subjects.
Chris Labossiere:The idea of moving even just to get a job, and particularly as it's your first job, my previous career I probably moved nine times because that was how you, that's just essentially how you rose through the ranks and it doesn't feel that people are willing to do that today. Like I think it's something from the past, you know, you'd have to go and, you know, do your time as you And say, many industries like banking, I remember my uncle, you know, he'd moved from bank to bank to bank to branch and they weren't allowed to stay at one for too long and all that. So kudos for you, I would agree, like we have a farm in Southern Saskatchewan just very much very close to The US border near what's called the Big Muddy Valley, and know, it's a different world. The perspectives, the people, culture and how people interact with each other and just a real amount of sincerity and honesty that you don't interact with normally and it feels strange for a while. We go down there and we're there for a week and it's, you know, it's just a very, very, very unique part of the Canadian identity, I think, rural places and particularly the prairies.
Chris Labossiere:So, well, kudos for you. You know, to go through your career, know, one thing that I'd love to understand is just as a lay person who doesn't understand your industry perfectly, you know, so you start as a reporter in Swift Current and then you become a journalist and then you become an anchor like, but you're still a journalist throughout all that, right? But what's the progression of your career in your space?
Vassy Kapelos:So it, it really depends on everybody. And I, like, I, I, all I knew going into it was, and this is sounds so obnoxious and nerdy, but like, I wanted to host a Sunday political show. And I knew that from the minute I decided to go into, into journalism largely, like I watched the sun like, I watched the American Sunday shows. I watched Question Period of Climb, mom and dad. We were all super politically like, I just grew up like that.
Vassy Kapelos:I don't know how else to explain it. And I, you know, I was naive to even articulate that, I guess, at some point or to to think it so specifically or whatever it was. But I knew it was my objective. Not to say I knew it would happen for sure or that it would happen in a certain amount of time. I didn't care if it took thirty years, but I had that kind of crystal clear, like this is my objective.
Vassy Kapelos:And then I could govern myself kind of accordingly along the way. And by that, I mean, I knew I had to pay my dues, a, in a smaller market, but B also what we call covering general assignment. So most people who are on air start off as reporters. And when I started getting into reporting, it's like, it is in and of itself, like an amazing, amazing job. To get good at it takes like ten or fifteen years, like the best of the best.
Vassy Kapelos:My God, they are, it's a craft. Like it doesn't look that way sometimes because they make it look so easy, but like it is, you know, from the writing to the composition of the pieces that are to the questions that you ask, all that kind of stuff, it's like its own skill set. So once I kind of got into that in Syfkrit and then I was in Saskatoon and Edmonton, I was covering general stuff. I was learning how to go live. All of these are like different types of skills that you get over time depending on the size of the market.
Vassy Kapelos:And particularly when I hit Edmonton, like it's when I was at Global Edmonton, was a beast. Like it was eleven and a half hours of live news a day and live trucks everywhere. And I was able to sort of be live all the time to compose stories. And, because I had articulated what my end goal is to my boss there, like eventually, you know, not too long after that, I was like a nightbeat reporter there covering a mat leave. He's like, okay, we're gonna have an opening covering politics.
Vassy Kapelos:And he knew I was a reporter to cover politics exclusively. Like that was my goal. And I'll do whatever it takes to throw myself into whatever happens before that. But that was my goal. And so finally, the the ledge reporter position open there.
Vassy Kapelos:And that was it. Like one day on the job, the first day on the job was Ed Stelmak's resignation. No joke. I'm in the like, he announces his resignation. I'm chasing Raj Sherman around the site.
Vassy Kapelos:Like, I remember like it was yesterday. I was like, in that day, I was like, that's it. I'm done. I know that what I thought I wanted was exactly what I do want.
Chris Labossiere:Is it the truth seeking? Is it the accountability journalism?
Vassy Kapelos:All of that, but it's the front row seat to history.
Chris Labossiere:You certainly did that yesterday. I asked that again. Was we were talking when we joined in terms of your opportunity to, looks like moderate a panel with our prime minister and I think he's the president of Finland. I'm not
Vassy Kapelos:sure
Chris Labossiere:that's So president of you've obviously reached the very, very top of your industry as well. I guess I got to know you as you were in Edmonton, as a personality in Edmonton. So in some of my preparation for the conversation, I was reminded of one of your stories and that's the Alison Redford severance story. Broke that story. Someone's career ended.
Chris Labossiere:Since I know that someone fairly well and you probably do too. I did see him. Now I like him well. Yeah. We're talking about Stephen Carter and he, he, you know, he's texting everyone and trying to get to take over the liberal party as we speak out here, like for some advertising strategy.
Chris Labossiere:So he's, he's a fascinating guy, but it was a, it was a, you know, it was a, it a, it was a big story. You broke it. He lost his job. What does that feel like the morning the story runs? Something like that.
Vassy Kapelos:So that experience was definitely the first time I broke a big story and, there's a sort of, know, now I look back and I recognize all of the things associated with it. And it was one of those stories. Was actually Edmonton was such a unique experience because I was able to Global had a massive audience at 06:00 at night and people of all ages tuned in there. And it allowed me, like I was able to benefit hugely from that because I would be on every single night at six reporting on what happened in the legislature. And so people very quickly became like, oh, I could talk to Herb if I have a tip or whatever.
Vassy Kapelos:And I was inundated with like literally brown envelopes. So somebody somebody sent me documents essentially, I think if I recall correctly, like with documentation showing the story of the severance and like, I'm still pretty green. I don't know. I know I have to confirm it. I know the basics of this stuff, but like I'm kind of on my own trying to figure out how I go about that.
Vassy Kapelos:I can't remember to be honest exactly how I did, but I was able to enough. And you want to throw up the entire time basically because you're always worried, what if I'm wrong? What if I'm It's a feeling you grow accustomed to the more you do it. But obviously at that point I wasn't. And now I look at it and it was just a very straightforward story.
Vassy Kapelos:Right? Like I probably wouldn't even have had I don't know if it would have the same impact now. Was a very different time. There was a lot of scrutiny on the Redford government and sort of a lot of different things. Right?
Vassy Kapelos:The context was sort of unique. Like, of course, someone gets a severance. Right? You know what I mean?
Chris Labossiere:Yeah. An executive, particularly as you know how executive funding agreements are structured, there's usually some form of guarantee there.
Vassy Kapelos:I think they
Chris Labossiere:have to. But it also just feels angel activity versus what we're seeing in the world today. I mean There's no comparison. Like, that wouldn't even register. Blatant.
Chris Labossiere:Obviously, America has a world record holder, I think, for kleptocracy with President with Trump. Things that rattle people, meaning the public and the citizen, I think we just have too much to process, so it's hard to rank what's really bad and what's really good.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah. It's a totally different environment. And I would say at that time, like there's a big focus in Alberta. Like we were nearing the end of a forty year dynasty. Right.
Vassy Kapelos:And so there was a huge amount of people in the bureaucracy who were witnessing what they viewed as abusive taxpayer money, levels of, you know, corruption of some sort. Like they just, which happens like this isn't necessarily ascribed to just one party. Any part, imagine another party in the country at forty years in power, like what kind of stuff would be on earth? So, there was like a heightened level of scrutiny
Chris Labossiere:on everything. To remind you that I ran in 2015 on that forty third year and luckily, I'm very thankful for it, I didn't win that election. I didn't have to become a politician. But, yeah, I can recall, you know, industry I'm person, an entrepreneur and a business owner, so I really technically haven't had a boss other than my board and our shareholders for a very long time. And then to march into the culture of the party.
Chris Labossiere:I remember particularly, I remember the candidate preparation at the Red Deer College, and so all the candidates and the infrastructure people and obviously the campaign people were there. My number one memory that immediately told me I was making a huge mistake and I was stuck in this process already was, but the strategist, and I won't say his name, explaining, there's a little classroom for the new candidates, people that have never run for office before, and so, you know, and basically the instructions were, you're not gonna talk to the media, don't tell anybody anything, don't do any debates, don't say anything. So, you know, for me personally, that that was antithetical to what I believe, you know, good governance includes, but you know, it's fascinating. It's a fascinating.
Vassy Kapelos:It's rampant now. It's rampant now. Find many debates where locally every candidate shows up.
Chris Labossiere:You know, I and it's funny. And obviously, you have probably the world's best seat for this, but like I I I really would love to get your perspective on the media savviness of Prime Minister Carney.
Vassy Kapelos:Of him specifically?
Chris Labossiere:Yeah. Like his what we've learned about him since we've got to know him as a politician.
Vassy Kapelos:Oh, that's an, interesting question. I guess there's a couple of different ways to look at. So I've only done one interview since he became prime minister with him. And it was, you know, right after his cabinet was sworn in. I'll tell you an interesting kind of funny story, a backstory about that basically during the leadership.
Vassy Kapelos:So I used to have him on question period before he was a politician. And everybody thought he might run or whatever. But as former Bank of Canada governor, just as I have Mr. Politically on all the time. Right?
Vassy Kapelos:Like, you know, there are, you know, interesting people to interview about the moment we find ourselves in economically. And certainly he was active within the liberal party and, you know, it was always a chance to say, Hey, are you going to run? And so, so I had communicated with him in that respect before. Then obviously since he had decided to run, I didn't even think to. So, I was anxious to get an interview with him and I had his cell phone.
Vassy Kapelos:So I called him and, he didn't answer. And so I sent him a text message and I said I kinda made a joke, like, because he had gone on with, John Stewart. And I was like, know my hair isn't quite as great as John Stewart, but I too have read your book. And I I too would like to interview as would Canadian journalists. Like, hey, Canada's still over here.
Vassy Kapelos:Like I said it lightheartedly. And then he did call me. And essentially, you know, in that conversation, I sort of took a leap and, I don't know if the right word is barter. That sounds crass. It wasn't crass, but said, you know, I'd like the first interview if you are successful.
Vassy Kapelos:And, he said, okay.
Chris Labossiere:And I you don't know.
Vassy Kapelos:Gotta take it while you can kind of thing. Take your chances. That's the one thing in this business for sure. Can't be afraid of anything. And so then I sort of let it go on and thought, oh my God, like, I don't know this person well enough if I can trust their word or anything like that.
Vassy Kapelos:And then. Basically I, we reached out again right after and we're like, Hey, remember when you told Vassy and blah, blah, blah. And he, and we got the interview and he kept his word. And so that, that's how we ended up with the first interview, Canadian TV interview he did after he became prime minister, which is kind of crazy.
Chris Labossiere:He seems to have this ability to kind of shed the partisanship in the moment and transcend it somehow, like kind of an apolitical force when he's at a micro podium or when people are, you know, he really is an interesting person. I wonder, you know, how much the experience he has in other roles he's had has obviously probably prepared him for this opportunity, but it's been fascinating to watch. I'm curious when you kind of, when you moved to the anchor chair, which is quite different, what did you give up and what did you gain?
Vassy Kapelos:So it was sort of an easy transition, like not easy is the right word. It was like a multi pronged transition in that I didn't just become an anchor after being a reporter. There was about a year to two years where I did both roles because a couple, so I had worked at Global in Ottawa as a natural reporter there. Jacques Bourbeau was the bureau chief, and Tom Clark was the host of the Sunday political show there. And Jacques Bourbeau left to take another job in Toronto.
Vassy Kapelos:So then I became the bureau chief there. So I'm still reporting, but also managing the bureau. And then six months later, something like that, Tom Clark left, to take a role in the private sector. And so then, eventually that became my job as well. So that was only one day a week.
Vassy Kapelos:And then the rest of the days I was reporting and sort of managing the bureau as well. And so that provided a great, I think ground to like hone my skills, while, while still reporting, in like take that time to get better. And then once I moved to CBC is when it became full time hosting And that was sort of like, you know, bath by fire or whatever you wanna call it. Like it was a huge, huge, huge change. And it was a very abrupt change from reporting, a very different change of like my life, every everything, and a real learning experience as well that like took me years before I felt really comfortable.
Chris Labossiere:I I I just having to go through this process, learning how to do a podcast. It's it's really a personal challenge to, you know, push myself. You know, luckily, you know, my producer, Bryn, is very experienced, as a media person and, but mostly radio and audio. And for me, it's, it's, it's, it's really intimidating and challenging to, you know, to, to be on the spot where you have to produce interesting questions and content for people. And especially because in your world, I'm sure there, you know, people are walking in with their talking points and they just won't deviate from them.
Chris Labossiere:So I wanted to ask you a question on that, like this idea of kind of unfolding or finding the truth under pressure in a moment. And this kind of came to my mind and the thinking is, you know, the question for you would be, is there a version of objectivity that becomes its own kind of dishonesty? Meaning, you know, when someone's kind of lying demonstrably, like, and the format requires the platform, you know, are you serving truth or are you undermining it, do you think? Have you ever thought about it that way? Like, because it's getting almost feels like extreme, the ability or inability for people to answer a question.
Vassy Kapelos:Like am I serving it? Mean by
Chris Labossiere:Well, I'm just curious if that objectivity is actually serving the ultimate cause or purpose is, you know, like when do you get like, listen, I don't think I'm and do all the time.
Vassy Kapelos:I just say it and I yes, exactly. Just I would say like, don't misjudge my demeanor as undiscerning. You know, just because I'm not saying you're full of shit doesn't mean that I'm not conveying that through a different means. And I would say like objectivity is the way I characterize objectivity is not like two sidesing or both sidesing everything. It is, finding the holes in the arguments that are being put forward, but finding those holes, like based on an entire, like library of knowledge that I have accumulated through covering this stuff for as long as I have plus research.
Vassy Kapelos:So like, it's not just out of the blue, you know, I'm just not devil's advocating everything. I'm I'm really like thinking about what is the line of accountability here that serves the interest of the people who are watching that is really like based in this is bullshit. It's not just me inventing bullshit.
Chris Labossiere:It's really good way to look at it. So on behalf of your viewers, you're trying to cut to that. Yeah.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah. Very much so. And then the other thing is like, yeah, they may come at you sort of, without answering or with talking points, but I'm very used to pointing that out and following up in a way that makes it evident to the viewer that like, I tried my best and that I'm not going to stop trying just because they aren't willing to play ball. So I think as long as I'm like, you know, my line of questioning is, is, is informed by reality and by research and by a whole bunch of things and not just me, like I'm going to play devil's advocate today. Plus like me pointing out to the audience when someone isn't answering and following up even when it's uncomfortable for them because they haven't answered.
Vassy Kapelos:Like I hope in the aggregate, all of that sort of does serve a purpose, that isn't just platforming, you know, stuff that makes you feel depressed at the
Chris Labossiere:end of the day. So like maybe a different way to answer that question is like, have you ever looked at a story and thought I got played? Like, that, does that, has that ever happened to you? No. Oh, that's, so that means that you're just pushing on this question.
Chris Labossiere:And obviously you can tell when you just run out of time to keep asking the same question and anchor, you know, you have that, that you've got to continue to move on. But it does seem like a bit of a rampant problem in the sense that the nature of electoral or partisan politics really means media is just being used to project to your base. That's what it seems that I way I
Vassy Kapelos:think that's a great observation. I think that's why it's harder and harder actually to do this type of journalism because I don't think that they're using all media that way. I think there's so much more media that is not even striving for objectivity anymore that they can easily use those mediums to do exactly that, to be unchallenged, to just get their point across. So why would you come be grilled by me for twelve to fifteen minutes, substantively on like whatever it is, the policy that you've decided is the best one to pursue when you can just go out there and say whatever you want and someone just nods and says, like, great. Yeah.
Vassy Kapelos:Great point. Great point. And I think that is the, if I were to like identify one of the biggest challenges moving forward, like I don't think it's all media. I don't think, I don't think like an organization like mine is being, you know, quote unquote played. I certainly don't feel like I am.
Vassy Kapelos:It's the problem is that the expectation, like politicians used to feel like we have to do things like this. We have to do accountability. We have to defend our ideas. I don't think all politicians feel that way anymore, and they can get away with not doing that.
Chris Labossiere:I actually do think a lot about accountability journalism. It's kind of something I remember when blogs were a thing. I wrote a long blog post on accountability journalism, what think would be an approach to resolving the issue that's there. Ultimately accountability journalism is really shrinking and particularly locally. I wanted to ask you, who benefits from that?
Vassy Kapelos:Well, people clearly who hold power and who want to keep on holding power. And I'm not, I'm, I'm not one who likes to ascribe nefarious intent necessarily off the rip. Like, I don't know if I've met a lot of really well meaning politicians and I'm not really an inherent cynic at all, but I do think like, you know, of course politicians want to implement their agenda unimpeded and they want to be able to hold onto power as long as possible so that they can do that. And I don't know what it is, but I have noticed even the course of the last, over the last twenty years, that there's just a less of a expectation of themselves to defend their ideas. Cause that's essentially all I'm asking them to do.
Vassy Kapelos:I don't get on and ask them, Hey, did you have an affair? Did you do this in your office? Like, I'm not asking any. I'm literally asking about policy and that's it. And there's, have this feeling like they're always looking not to, if that makes sense.
Vassy Kapelos:Like, it's like, it's sort of, I just think that they, everything is easier when your ideas are untested, when you don't have to defend them voraciously. And the kind of culture of politics that we've brought in is one where that is the preference over, like, are some politicians who love it. Do you know what I mean? Like, I still have like a handful who come in here who they love the fight. They wanna defend their ideas, and that's that's how it should
Chris Labossiere:be. Yeah. I I've I've I've I've found it interesting just curiously to watch the reemergence of Jason Kenney's voice politically in Canada that on Twitter. Twitter is the is the platform I use, unfortunately, maybe too much. And and and I do appreciate the thoughtfulness and the the dialogue that he's willing to have with people who object with his his way of thinking.
Chris Labossiere:And and honestly, lived in Alberta as him as the premier, I wasn't inspired by his leadership. Would be honest. I'm trying to be non political in this sense because I try to ultimately support the governments that run our institutions and our you know, but seeing this side of him where you get more long form feedback on how they think or what they think is that's a game changer. Someone said to me today, they think that politicians are going to eventually have to have podcasts. For them to get their message
Vassy Kapelos:out. They'd love to have that.
Chris Labossiere:But is that a restriction? Did you like, that's interesting. I never thought of that. I didn't even respond when that person said that to me
Vassy Kapelos:say two things. I used to love interviewing Jason Kenney when he was premier of Alberta. First of all, because he would do the interviews. He would do them even when he was facing a ton of criticism, not just on days when he had things to announce. And I always like I always always sort of measure how much I enjoy interviewing people by how prepared I feel like I have to be, how much of a challenge.
Vassy Kapelos:I I know it's like, I have to think of every possible thing they might answer. And I have to really think out, my line of questioning and sort of what facts I'm gonna use, double like, you know, I'm very, very meticulous about it. And I always like you inherently, like in your gut, you know, all this one's like a level A and B. He was always one of the ones where I was like, I gotta be ready. And you may disagree and I understand completely with the ideas that he was promulgating or what he was, you know, his policies or how he governed himself as premium or whatever, but he definitely took questions.
Vassy Kapelos:And I probably did like at least 20 interviews with them during that time. And never once was there any sort of, pushback to how, you know, I could go as hard as I possibly could and he could take it. I think, I think politicians would love it if they only had podcasts. If they could just get up on a microphone and tell everybody, you know, like Gavin Gavin Newsom does, for example, you know?
Chris Labossiere:That I mean, his strategy in response to dealing with Trump by re trumping him
Vassy Kapelos:is pretty,
Chris Labossiere:pretty ingenious. Whoever thought of it.
Vassy Kapelos:I'll say like, I have some sympathy. I'm not actually like against any of that. I just don't think that that should be all you have to do. I think you should have to face accountability journalism. If you are paid by the taxpayer and you want to represent Canadians and you want to implement policies that you feel will benefit them, you should be able to defend why you think that's the case.
Vassy Kapelos:I don't care if you also do podcasts and you also, you know, you also have your own vehicles. I just, I just don't think they should supplant defending your ideas.
Chris Labossiere:Well, have a whole theory on what I think is going to, it's going to take to fix accountability journalism in the country, but that's a long conversation and I certainly don't want waste any time I get the chance to talk to you. I'll read that blog. I can't even find it anymore because that's one of my frustrations, I am concerned about that. Ultimately, there's simply no economic model where it's profitable. And so to give you a sense for what I ultimately believe is I think something like the Pew Foundation or PBS might be a different kind of example where I think we're going to end up with what I would call like an accountability trust network and ultimately, know, regional editorial boards, local editorial boards, those would be a mix of citizens and you know, that agree to comply to certain standards.
Chris Labossiere:I think that infrastructure is funded by government, by corporations and by the public, like through subscriptions and stuff and then, you know, because otherwise without that, you know, in every community and my gosh, the smaller the community, the worse the problem could be. You know, in terms of there's no economic valid reason to necessarily create and invest in investigative journalism in your small community. So I do think it's a real challenge. Misinformation seems like a whole another challenge and then AI seems to have aggravated that. So it must be almost impossible for you.
Chris Labossiere:Like Actually, one thing I'd love to ask is, again, I'm a bit of a Twitter addict, but the one thing I can say about Twitter that I've always believed and it's still true and it's actually more true, is that I feel like I'm about three to five days ahead of my friends. Like the news that I consume, and I particularly am also interested in politics, macroeconomics, politics, and the kind of geopolitical reality that the country's facing and the world's facing right now. That's, and and and on Twitter I can go right to the battlefield. Like, mean, I've got lists I can curate, could watch activity in the Ukraine or Ukraine. And that that's interesting to me because I find that I'll bring a news item up to my friends that hasn't come out and it'll take two or three days for it to come out.
Chris Labossiere:Like, how do you sort through that to decide? Like, if you you're seeing the same thing I'm sure on Twitter when you're there and and everybody sees it, but as professional journalist, you you know, the the your responsibilities are are greater and how do you pick and choose which of those kind of things that look really fascinating that just happened five minutes ago? When does when and how is the process to get that on the nightly news? Because I really find that interesting right now.
Vassy Kapelos:Well, I certainly use Twitter as a news aggregator as well. We kind of call it like a wire service now. Like it's what the wires were fifteen years ago. So it's like often where you see the you know, as you as you put it, like the first of a lot of stuff. And I actually find it, pretty easy to discern there because there's so many official sources of news, both from a reporter perspective,
Chris Labossiere:but also from an organization perspective. So I I keep it pretty limited to to stuff I rely on. There's a
Vassy Kapelos:good example recently of like in the terror bomb by election, they were saying Gilles Doucette, leader of the former leader of the block was endorsing the liberal leader. Like you could see there was quite a bit of movement on that,
Chris Labossiere:but no official sources to it. And it turned out
Vassy Kapelos:to be fake. So like, there there is, I think, ways to discern even on Twitter, even though it's like so much at once.
Chris Labossiere:Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you've you're astute to it, can you can can sort through and understand and you can start to trust accounts. And that's what I'll only share in content that I think I can trust from an account that I feel is competent, the average person unfortunately may not approach it that way and it's steering the cultural, you know, like the outcomes that this has on society. I can't even imagine, but, it feels like a transformational thing. Then AI has changed everything.
Chris Labossiere:So does that mean, do you have a truth social account? Like, anybody have a Truth
Vassy Kapelos:Social don't account? Even use Twitter. Like, I just I just absorb it. I just use it as a news aggregator. And then I I like as you were when you were mentioning sort of like, what's the process for figuring out, like, what you basically cover?
Vassy Kapelos:It is a huge amalgamation of many different things. So it's, it's, it's what's, you know, Twitter is probably the last thing I look at only because I'm kind of, that's something that's on all day, but I start my day very early and I consume, you know, literally like 20 to 30 different sources of, of news. And I, I, I kind of give myself thirty minutes in the morning to mine. I'm lucky I'm a speed reader, but I'm like to mine everything. And then I start being more deliberate and I give myself another thirty minutes to fashion like a chase list essentially.
Vassy Kapelos:So I have a two hour radio show every day, and then I have a one hour TV show and I structure it. And then I have a Sunday show that airs too. So I sort of structure my, my list in the morning to send to all the producers after doing all that. And that's the beginning of it. And then I get into work and I meet with radio first and we sort of, and then it's, it's, it's a combination of like, who's available.
Vassy Kapelos:What's the subject. What else is happening later in the day? Because the thing is you're also trying to gauge, like what's the most relevant when you go to air. Because something that I feel at 5AM is a big story. 90% of the time by 04:30PM is not.
Vassy Kapelos:So you constantly have to be on top of it so that you can evolve with the news cycle of the day. And then, you know, it's radio first. Then I meet with the power play team. Then I go to radio things, transform over that time too often. Like there are changes made on the fly.
Vassy Kapelos:Then after that, meet again with power play. Okay. Where are we at based on what was the case three hours ago? And then we make changes again. And then we kind of keep monitoring things and often you're doing a pre tape or you're studying in those three hours between two and five usually Eastern and then at 05:00 the show airs.
Vassy Kapelos:And then you're sort of you've got your lineup built in, but you also have to contend with, well, what if other stuff is going on? And how do you incorporate what happens live? What do you take live versus what do you monitor to turn around? Like all of those, there's like 300 decisions in an afternoon, but I'm very used to it now. So it sounds like a little bit more complex than it actually is, but you're just, you're never off.
Vassy Kapelos:You're constantly making decisions about the question that you ask basically, like, what is the thing that I need to put And to it's not a static thing. It's not like at 2PM I'm like, well, I've made my choice. Often the biggest lesson I learned early on hosting the CBC show is you have to be forceful in being prepared to throw everything out when there's hardly any time. Like you can't be like at 04:30, well, the show's kind of locked in. I've only got thirty minutes.
Vassy Kapelos:You have to be like, no, we're throwing it all out and we're doing this instead, which is like take some practice to feel confident in.
Chris Labossiere:I I as like, I'm curious. I'm just always trying to relate it to the business world that I work in and, you know, in a kind of tech culture entrepreneurial, you know. So I know when my team has a win, we have a win, we have a good day, we have we win an opportunity or something like that. Can really, we can, we can, you know, celebrate it and understand it. And I'm curious with your team, like as you guys, you know, you're putting a show out every day, you're putting up other forms of content.
Chris Labossiere:What, what has to happen to make it it feel like a win? When do you guys all high five each other and go, that was amazing?
Vassy Kapelos:Well, we had a great night last night. We interviewed the Finland president and we were pumped for a couple of reasons. A, that we got him. B, that we were happy with how the interview from a production perspective look because we had a huge amount of challenges in the room that we ended up shooting in. It took like three hours.
Vassy Kapelos:Anyways, it's a very TV thing, but like it's part of it. And three, we got news out of it and we really like the actual content. Like we felt like it was good TV plus substantively was interesting.
Chris Labossiere:So undermine or unearthing something. Sorry that For that is
Vassy Kapelos:me making news is like king. That news one is of my old bosses says news is our currency. Right? For all of the people who say mainstream media is dead or the this is dead or this is dead. Like, you're still gonna read breaking news and people always do.
Vassy Kapelos:So making news, like getting news out of somebody is always something that I feel good about. And and there are many nights when you don't feel good when you're like, like our guests, the guests were better on the other network or we why can't we get this person? Or like, it's, but I've really, really, really learned how to navigate my way through that. I don't like to lose. I'm very, very competitive.
Vassy Kapelos:And so it's been a hard thing to get my mind around, but I've had to because the one thing I realize is this job is very unique in that the next day you have a 100% opportunity to do to make right all over again. So like, you're really only as good as last night or And as so if I have a bad Wednesday, I you know, part of what I think I now bring to the table hopefully with our team and everything after all these years is like, I'm determined this day the next day to bat it out of the park. And like, I'm gonna be creative. I'm gonna you know what I mean? Like, I'm I'm I'm never willing to lose two days in a row.
Chris Labossiere:And and so when you when you have to double down like that, is it is it is it energy? Is it research? Or is it confidence? Like what do you have to draw on when you need that?
Vassy Kapelos:I think it's like I have a good night's sleep. I wake up in the morning. I go, okay, that one's done. Now what am I gonna do to make this? And I think to myself, okay, like what are outside of the box chases, for example, that would land big?
Vassy Kapelos:Are stories that I think I might be able to confirm that I could lead with or that we could get the bureau to break today? Or what are like, Chase is a big part of what we call chase is a big part of it. Like, what's another thing that we could administer we could request that maybe doesn't seem obvious, but I could get something out of that would be advance the narrative or advance something that people aren't thinking about. So I just start being really creative about it. I'm at the beginning of the day, so I have time to like get my mind around all of that, you know?
Vassy Kapelos:And then I sort of and by no means is this an individual endeavor, as you know, like, you know, that's sort of somebody has to be the positive influence and then everybody else comes along. And I'm I work with an amazing group of young people who are unreal. And like, I mean, I I have two producers only for, the TV show, one producer for radio, one and a half producers for the Sunday show, and they do a phenomenal job. Absolutely phenomenal. They are the heart of it all and they come with me a 100% in anything I'm trying, anything, you know, like they execute.
Vassy Kapelos:And I think, we all want to win, like collectively. It's very much a collective experience, but like mentally, I'm speaking more individually. I had to really get over the thing of letting a loss sort of like make me feel crappy for three days.
Chris Labossiere:Well, sounds very similar to I think, first first of all, obviously the sporting world, but, especially, and including the business world. So, I I just find I find that interesting because I I I I've learned that obviously you are part of a team and it's complex and and moving everything's moving at lightning speed and and you still gotta have a show produced every night. So that that's fascinating. Yeah. I I wanna switch gears a little bit.
Chris Labossiere:And So I'm a father of daughters. I have two adult daughters and actually four grandkids. Wow. Both my daughters have sorry, kids.
Vassy Kapelos:Congratulations, that's And
Chris Labossiere:you know, clearly, well, surely, what's been most enjoyable to me is to be part of developing two unique, you know, individuals who have found their own self and voice. You know, that's, that's, you know, I didn't necessarily get that luxury growing up. And so, you know, I've read a little bit about your father. I'd like to ask you a question. You know, somewhere I read, you said your father was the most important person in your professional life.
Chris Labossiere:I'd like to ask you, what did he see in you?
Vassy Kapelos:He saw in me someone who was capable of anything. And and I'll I'll say both he and my mom. My mom passed in 2010, right when I had started at Global Edmonton, actually. And she had the same level of faith in me, but my parents made me feel, and my dad continues to, like nothing is out of the realm of what is possible for me. And the most illustrative example of that is when I wasn't Swift Current, I was really, really struggling.
Vassy Kapelos:I was living alone in a basement apartment and I had a rocky relationship with the people who were employing it. Like it was a very challenging situation and I wanted to quit. And I had taken out a line of credit in order to be able to afford to fly home because I made such little money at the time. I flew home to see my family and my my dad, dad, who's a Greek dad, like we're not particularly emotional or anything. I went out to dinner with my parents and I said, I just don't know if I can do this.
Vassy Kapelos:And he said, my dad didn't even want me to go in the first place. He was so upset at the idea of me not living at home and or living in Toronto or whatever, but close by. And he said, of course you're always welcome home, but I'm going to write you a letter and I want you to read it when you get back to Swift Current. And it was a long letter. Essentially he had run-in politics and he had lost at the start of his career.
Vassy Kapelos:And he said, I thought I, cause I was struggling at the time thinking I'm never going to, I'm never going to get another job. I had been refused from so many by then and nobody wanted me to Regina or in Saskatoon or anything. And he said, you know, I thought at the time, like it was, I was done in for, I would never be a success. I had failed at the first big thing I tried. Later he's a lawyer.
Vassy Kapelos:He later he said, you know, what it actually materialized into was that all this, the platform I had at the time running ended up, I met so many people that they turned into my client base and ultimately they formed the foundation of like, at this point now, a fifty five year long career. He's still a practicing lawyer full time at 79 and his own practice. And I read that letter and it's like, he's like, you're going to surpass this. You'll get by this. You'll surpass it.
Vassy Kapelos:And one day you'll look back and this will be the foundation of any success that you have. Basically like, it was enough and I, and I stuck, stuck it out. And if I hadn't, and I turned back, I would have missed out on this entire wonderful career. Like basically ever since then, and ever since my mom passed, my dad has. You know, be my greatest champion.
Vassy Kapelos:He doesn't miss it. He has not missed a single episode of any show I have ever been on. He knew every story in Edmonton, like the back of his hand. Works to this day till 09:00 or 10:00 at night would come home and watch the PVR. He knew every anchor in Edmonton.
Vassy Kapelos:He knew every story I did on Alberta politics. He then knew everything about Ottawa and he has never, never missed a single show that I've ever done. And like, I don't know if I would have had the balls to say, oh, that's the thing I wanna do in twenty years when I said at the beginning of my career, I wanna host a Sunday show unless I had the parents that I had and that that I have a dad and mom who believed that that was possible for me. Like, I'm just a product of their faith.
Chris Labossiere:So, you know, what he saw in you then, have you become the person that he saw?
Vassy Kapelos:I mean, I'm not always the best version of myself, but I think so. I think, and this is gonna sound weird. A lot of what my dad saw in me was my mom and my mom was like a very much more ballsy than me, sort of like she had a really tough life and she just like didn't dwell on negative things. She was just tough and sort of, but had a big heart. And I think of her, I conjure her a lot when I'm like feeling like, oh God, I have to do something really uncomfortable, which is like three nights a week, right?
Vassy Kapelos:Where you're just like, I know this isn't going to be pretty, but And so I sort of think that in a way my dad thought I was capable in the same way my mom was capable of so many things. And so I do feel capable. I do feel ballsy a lot of the time. Do like not in a cheesy way, but like I conjure up the way that I know she wouldn't be like afraid to call the prime minister and say, I want the first interview, if that makes sense. That doesn't come naturally to me.
Chris Labossiere:No, understand that. It's actually a really elegant answer. I really do appreciate that. And you are, of course, I think what that is, what you've become in Nayra's vision clearly. I think you're probably one of the best questioners that I've seen in terms of as an anchor or journalist.
Chris Labossiere:I love watching those tense moments where you're still trying to chase the answer out of somebody that seems to want to try to avoid answering the question, I think you're very good at it. You have a son now. What do you want him to see when he watches you work?
Vassy Kapelos:Well, right now all he sees is if I'm wearing pink or not because that's his favorite color. He gets very excited. Yeah. Well, I want him to see somebody who places a lot of value in the work that they do and who doesn't sort of think of things as nine to five. And that's a hard thing to reconcile because it also means less time with him.
Vassy Kapelos:And it also means feelings of, I don't know if guilt is the right word, but just like opportunity costs always. Like I I if I were a multimillionaire, I wish I could be with him all the time, but I I also have all this ambition and love of what I do. And
Chris Labossiere:Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't seem like it's just the money. It seems
Vassy Kapelos:No, obviously not at all.
Chris Labossiere:It's the pursuit of this truth.
Vassy Kapelos:Yes. And I love it. And hope that he does something he loves. And I hope that for him, like he places a lot of value in work and working hard. I think one of the best things my parents imbued in me and my sisters is the work ethic that they had.
Vassy Kapelos:That like, I'm entitled to nothing, if that makes sense. And that you know, whatever you're able to achieve should be on the back of your hard work first and foremost. And I hope he's like that through example. I hope he sees me do that and I hope he takes from me what I took from my parents in that vein.
Chris Labossiere:Wow, I'm sure he will, but that was a great answer. Thank you very much. Let's talk about Canada. So you kind of enforce neutrality every day. That's kind of what I guess I see what you watch you and what you're doing.
Chris Labossiere:But you're also a Canadian raising a Canadian child. What do you actually think is happening to this country right now?
Vassy Kapelos:In what way?
Chris Labossiere:Well, I guess maybe what should we all be watching for or what, what shape are we taking? You know, I guess it, it's, to me, and I think to many people it feels like a tumultuous time for sure, but also, you know, a realignment of certain things in Canada's identity, you know, plays a part in that just because of the issue with The United States. But I guess, you know, like maybe to reword that, like you have a you have a voice in being a Canadian citizen and you have a Canadian child. Like, what what do you think we should be worried about then?
Vassy Kapelos:Well, I guess I'd preface it by saying, like, I'm very proud to be Canadian. I'm very proud to be raising a Canadian child, and I'm very proud to be working in Canadian media. I love covering domestic politics and domestic issues. And I think like there cannot be enough of that just as you worry about sort of like the local, you know, the derision of local investigative journalism or accountability journalism. Like I don't want that to be the case at the national level either.
Vassy Kapelos:I know that it's easy to be like subsumed by everything going on in The United States. Right. And to sort of think those problems are so huge, like they're worthy of focus, but there's a lot of challenges in this country that are worthy of focus too. And I think when you say like, what should we be worried about? I don't know if I necessarily have a clear answer to that, but I do know that I find it very interesting right now that we're sort of in this period of like trying to figure out what our identity is vis a vis the threat from The United States and sort of the economic war between our two countries right now.
Vassy Kapelos:And I often find myself thinking like when that finishes, because I sort of believe, I don't know why, but at some point it will, sort of not necessarily in a good or bad way, but like maybe it's twenty years, maybe whatever it is, like what are we left with in terms of our own identity? And I think about that question a lot. I don't have an answer, but I think like there will become a moment where we're like, how do we define ourselves if not in contrast to The United States? And then as far as challenges go, like I'm sort of, I think about two things and the first is more esoteric and it's around, but maybe relevant to your audience. And it is really important.
Chris Labossiere:I don't have a lot of audience yet, so we don't have to worry
Vassy Kapelos:too I mean, people in Alberta insofar as like, I think my experience at West has informed a lot of what I pay attention to and what I think about. I worry about the unity of the country. And I'm not saying, I'm not ascribing, you know, you're wrong or you're right to, to any of the sides, but I think we always sort of feel like we're on the cusp of something in Quebec or in Alberta or in Saskatchewan. And I don't know what the solution is, but like, it's, it's definitely going to be a challenge and it continues to be a challenge right now. And then on a more granular level, I am sort of inundated on the flip side, you know, outside of the West, in urban centers and in particular with knowing so many people I grew up with in Toronto, I think the idea that people in this country feel like they could have achieved the most success they would have dreamed of twenty years ago and still not be able to feel secure is a big deal.
Vassy Kapelos:Like I think that people who feel gainfully employed, like they focused on their career, like they've saved money and they still have total economic insecurity is a bigger problem than maybe is reflected in the media because it may not be represented in the media. You know, like, don't know necessarily why that's the case, but I just feel in my real life, I am surrounded by people my age. A little bit older and a little bit younger who work a ton and feel like they're like, what's why am I not?
Chris Labossiere:They're moving backwards.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah. Yeah. And it does not. And it's one thing for that to be the case. It's another for it to be so different than what you expected.
Chris Labossiere:I have some pretty strong opinions, about the, you know, the way that, you know, the economic system, you know, it's basically inspires inflation. The reality is, is it's essentially, it's essential in the sense that the debt that the governments have on their balance sheets need to be repriced in cheaper dollars. And that and the deficits and the debt that each, know, the Western countries, most of the countries in the world frankly have accumulated, it hasn't gone away and it's and it's and it's gonna drive the cost of debt up and that's gonna drive the economy down and that's gonna possibly deflate the value of, you know, what the and it has. Like, I mean, has. Inflation is essentially the degradation of the value of the dollar, at least the purchasing value of the dollar.
Chris Labossiere:So, I think that's a fundamental problem for the world. I, I, I, you know, how it gets resolved is, is going to be messy. And what that means, like how it gets resolved between countries and how it gets resolved, in the capital markets and in, in, in the, you know, the, the, the businesses that grow and, we need to grow and, again, ultimately how it affects the average person. You're right, I actually agree. I think that it probably is the biggest issue because having studied it and really focused on it, there there is no easy solution.
Chris Labossiere:Right. There's there's three ways for the US government to deal with a $40,000,000,000,000 debt load, and none of them are good, you know. So I I I it'll be fascinating to see how it plays out, and it's good answer though. Would say on the identity sovereignty side, this idea, well, at least this is my opinion, the sentiment about Canada internationally seems to have remarkably changed, and our response to the challenges that we've been faced with. You know, the economic tariff war is a challenging issue.
Chris Labossiere:We'd be one of the biggest trading partners in The United States, if not the biggest, of course. So, do you feel a sentiment change in terms of how the world sees Canada?
Vassy Kapelos:I'm not sure I'm necessarily like best poised to answer that just because I used to go particularly during the Trudeau years when I was reporting on him, like we used to go cover him and his trips everywhere and spend a lot of time outside of the country. So I would be able to like ascertain what the reaction to him was better there. I can certainly see like in international media, there is a popular perception of the prime minister. I would only add this caveat that, I lived through the first year and a half of Trudeau. And I can tell you that it was Trudeau mania around the world.
Vassy Kapelos:Like we forget because of how, how much things, you know, were how different things were at the end of the ten years. But I was actually looking at this chart the other day from Nick Nanos about preferred prime minister. And at the height of his popularity, Justin Trudeau's popularity was even a few points higher than Mark Carney's. So I say that only because having lived through that, I'm a little hesitant to sort of buy into the international media narrative. I think there is a change And for example, President Stubb, I asked that about, you know, a lot of countries are looking at our defense spending and that is one discernible thing that has had a very different reaction around the world, in, in things like that.
Vassy Kapelos:But I just, I think it's too early to know. And I really feel like it's my job to, observe the positives, but also sort of like focus in on there's some major promises that have been made. Like the prime minister characterizes his own ambition as like the most in generation. So I'm very focused on the execution of that and holding the government to account
Chris Labossiere:over time. Yeah. Well, is exactly what's needed. You know, it is interesting in my role as a CEO and in the innovation sector, you know, parts of groups where we constantly go to Ottawa and try to, you know, inspire the government to, you know, to build Canada's innovation industry by partnering with Canada's innovation industry. But it definitely feels different in terms of the feedback I get.
Chris Labossiere:I got back a feedback from a deputy minister that I was meeting with in Ottawa where he described the biggest change in in his life is that, you know, there's been this transference of you're accountable, but you're empowered, which, know, in government is, you know, hard to imagine. So, so it'll be interesting to see. I I I also think that with the prime minister's business, you know, call it outside of politics experience that he has a unique perspective and I fantasize that I think most politicians should have a lot of more or at least hopefully more real world experience. And I actually quite am charmed by many like the small market local poll, you know, people that run for office that we, you may or may not say are even remotely qualified, you know, but yet it's their passion that I think is inspiring and it's their authenticity that I think is inspiring. So I'm going to watch it with interest too and absolutely like the promises have been large.
Chris Labossiere:The defense investment, the defense industrial strategy that was released by the government. Someone said to me who's very close to, you know, the senior levels I guess of the bureaucracy, is that if you want to understand the vision of the prime minister and his vision for Canada, read the background or that was released as part of the defense industrial strategy. And, and I did that. So I actually did, I actually did that and, and it is quite revealing I think of the vision for the country to be more self sustaining and, and more create value more here if possible. So we'll, we'll see.
Chris Labossiere:It's an interesting experience. And I also expect in the Trudeau sense, this fades. It doesn't last forever and it can't last forever, and and it shouldn't last forever. So we'll we'll see how it goes. On the Trudeau front, I have one anecdotal story.
Chris Labossiere:I'm a I'm on the board of the, Juno Beach Center, which is at the Canada Second World War Museum in Normandy, France, of course, on Juno Beach. I remember seeing Prime Minister Trudeau there on one of the big anniversaries. It must have been last year, the eightieth anniversary of the invasion of D Day. And there was literally twenty, twenty five young people, mostly women, like fan like going crazy over him. Like the following him down the beach trying to get pictures with him and and I found that fascinating.
Chris Labossiere:Like I I really do find that fascinating and so I I will, you know, we'll we'll hope we'll hope for the best. That's kind of how I feel regardless of the government, regardless of the party. Okay. You know, I'm, I'm certainly an Edmontonian and an Albertan and a Canadian, all those things collectively together and I cheer for them every day and it's, you know, but watching the impact of government and the impact of leadership, particularly right now, where like literally leaders are talking constantly every day to each other about things that, you know, materially affect the future of regions of the country. It's pretty fascinating.
Chris Labossiere:I imagine interpersonal skills and all those things that you need at that time, it probably has a big impact on the future of the world. So when you say you'd like to be at the front row to watching history happen, I don't think you're going to be able to get up from your seat for the next little while.
Vassy Kapelos:It feels like that. It definitely feels like that.
Chris Labossiere:You know? So, great. Well, let's one last question. And I hope this one is not too hard to spin around too. Maybe I'm being too esoteric, but you're the interviewer.
Chris Labossiere:You are one of Canada's best interviewers, if not the best right now. And I think what I'd like to ask you is, what question do you wish someone would ask you on record that nobody ever does?
Vassy Kapelos:So you were very kind to send me this in advance and I've been thinking about it all day, and I can't come up with a good answer because I don't find myself interesting at all. I'm flattered that you even wanted to talk to me today. I I can't think of anything that, I would want somebody to ask because I feel uncomfortable talking about myself, to be honest.
Chris Labossiere:So I'm sorry. Is that a is that a is that a modesty thing or is that a professional standard? No. It's just so I
Vassy Kapelos:just feel uninteresting, and I don't wanna bore anybody. So maybe no. I think all the questions you asked already were great. I love
Chris Labossiere:Well, yeah, that wasn't the reason. Was just genuinely curious. Like, it must be hard. Like, I'm I'm a I'm a director style a type personality with know? I mean, if I don't get an opportunity to project my opinion in the places and rooms where I am regularly, I can't go a few minutes without it's hard.
Chris Labossiere:I start to get itchy.
Vassy Kapelos:I think the one good thing about this job is you really get used to taking yourself out of it, if that makes sense. It becomes sort of like habit almost. And so I'm just so used to thinking about what I wanna ask and sort of how to remain my how for my own thoughts to remain out of it versus like ones that are based on analysis. Does that make sense? So that's why I don't
Chris Labossiere:Well, I'm but Vassy, the person, you know, the citizen, opinions and probably would like to share them. That that was kind of maybe the basis behind the question, and you're gonna be you're not gonna answer it. That's a that's what did.
Vassy Kapelos:I thought about it all day, and I was like, I don't know.
Chris Labossiere:So you're evading the question, and that's fine. I I've seen lots of people do Not that
Vassy Kapelos:on your evading it. I I'm telling you genuinely, I can't I've I mean, I can think of lots of uninteresting things like, you know, what kind of cake did you make your son last night? What do you, what do you like to do outside of this? All that kind of stuff, but it's really boring.
Chris Labossiere:Don't think anybody wants I'm to know sure that's not true, but you're not answering the question and I'll accept that as an answer. So, Excellent. Well, I, again, I really do want to thank you. Has been interesting to me and that's the goal here. That's the point is to have interesting conversations with interesting people doing interesting things.
Chris Labossiere:So, you know, Vassy, I want to say thanks.
Vassy Kapelos:Thank you. It's been such a pleasure. I appreciate the invitation in the first place and it was just such a joy to talk to you and I appreciate it. Thank you.
Chris Labossiere:Great. Vassy Kapelos, spent twenty years making sure Canadians hear the truth from the people who shaped this country. I'm glad she came to Barney's Tavern. I'm Chris Labossiere. You can find new episodes on barneystavern.ca and all of the podcast channels.