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Ever wish you had a mentor to help you become who you were meant to be? Crystal Ware is redefining what it means to become your best self, in business, life, and love and sharing everything she she knows to get YOU there faster.
Are you stuck? Feel like you are meant for more but not sure how to breakthrough? Every week, we will explore all of your questions on building a path to true happiness, achieving success and creating our dream life. Brick by brick, we will work through the issues and mindsets that keep us stuck, dive into finding our passion and how to take ACTION. Clarity (vision) + Confidence (Owning your worth) + Courage (to live life on your own terms and become your own CEO) propels you to your destiny. And the good news it: its all within you!
Each week, host, Crystal Ware, will bring you all of the practical wisdom to grow every aspect of your career and life including mindset, vision, goal planning, social media management, financial acumen and so much more. You'll also meet top business leaders, entrepreneurs, mompreneurers and innovative thinkers who invested in themselves and found their way success and happiness by leading on their own terms.
You were made for more, so start living like it today. Join us as we take action, grow together, and get inspired to reach for your dreams.
The Enneagram in Real Life & Love with Stephanie Barron
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Get Clear with Crystal Ware podcast, the place where we get clear on our goals, own our worth, and learn to be the CEOs of our own lives. I'm your host, Crystal Ware, lawyer and former Fortune 500 corporate leader. Who found the confidence to say goodbye to a lucrative career and start my own business.
Now I'm opening up the playbook and sharing everything I've learned to get you there faster. It may not be easy, but it will always be worth it because you are made for more. So put on your big girl pants, jump on board and let's reach for the stars. Are you ready to get clear?
Crystal Ware: Hey, Hey, everybody. Welcome back to get clear with crystal where I have another amazing, amazing guest on today to illuminate who you are, bring out the best in you and make sure that you're on track for ultimate growth. It's Stephanie Bering Hall, who has an amazing Instagram nine [00:01:00] types co an amazing website, and we'll soon be launching a really, really awesome book for us. And we are going to touch upon how Enneagram can improve your life, improve everything, that you go through in your daily, in your work, in your love life, all of those things. So welcome to the show, Stephanie.
Stephanie Barron: Thanks so much for having me.
Crystal Ware: What I like to talk about as like just an outset, as the beginning entry point for people to get to know who you are. is where you came from and how did you get into this? Because what I really think is interesting for women, especially in the modern day, where we are is kind of figuring out an alternative career.
Like how did people get into these unique positions to do something that they really love that affects people's lives in a positive way. So, tell us a little bit about your educational background, work life experience, and how you got to be, an imaginative, creative, helpful, not a guru, not a psychologist, but [00:02:00] so many pieces of those things.
Stephanie Barron: Sure. so ever since I could remember, I was really interested in personalities. I grew up the middle of three kids actually in Dallas, Texas area. and I always was kind of curious about, I'd have these little books that would say If your favorite color is orange, it means this about you.
Or if you, you know, dot your eyes this way, it means this about you. And so I was just like, what can we discover about ourselves and our personalities? And then I would ask people in my family and be like, Oh, I'm different from my sisters in this way. Or, all those sorts of things. And so when I went to college, I knew I wanted to study personalities and I knew I wanted to study psychology.
and it's interesting. A lot of things in my life are very all over the place. Like I have all these different passions and all these different kinds of, random things that I love, but there are a few things that have remained consistent from literally elementary school and being interested in personality is one of those.
And so when I was an undergrad, I [00:03:00] remember thinking, It would be so cool to use personality frameworks as a team building project, basically. and so I studied psychology. I had an additional, area of study, which was like intercultural studies. So understanding different cultures and, how we communicate differently, based on the cultural context that we are originate from.
So all of those sorts of things really interested me. And after. undergrad, I was like, okay, I just need a job, right? Like that's, that's where we're at. So, I, I started working at this day program for adults, developmental disabilities, and on staff there, our management team, we used something, a different personality framework called, total SDI.
And now it's something different. It's like strengths, development, inventory, something. Anyway. It was motivation based and I loved that concept. and so I saw how we could use this framework [00:04:00] within our management team and how for us as managers and in the leadership, it really helped us communicate better.
And then I was able to use it with some of my, team members as well. So then I got really burned out. which is also a big part of my story is going through these cycles of burnout. and I just was like, I'm going to do something totally different. Yeah. So I went and worked at a, tech startup type of company, and I ended up doing a lot of like data analysis and trend forecasting and all that sort of stuff.
So totally different. And even though I liked some of the pieces of that job, I was like, I hate this. Like I feel like an island every single day. And that's not an experience that I particularly enjoy. and. I liked the numbers and the insights I could glean from them, but then I was like, But so what, like what impact does this have on people's lives?
You know what I mean? So I thought back, when was I really [00:05:00] fulfilled at work? And it was when I was using that personality framework and in the intervening years, I'd also gotten really into the Enneagram, my husband and my older sister, both were like, you have to get into this. You will love it. And at first I was resistant.
And eventually I ended up loving it. So, with that real interest in the Enneagram, I was like, what if I went back to school and learned how to use a tool like this, with teams? So I went back and got a masters in organizational communication. and. Used all of those learnings with my learnings, from the Enneagram.
So I've done, several different certifications in using the Enneagram tool at this point. and yeah, that's kind of how all of this started. And during that entire time, I was also just writing about it online. And so that's kind of how I, I grew my Instagram, and how people learned about me and I started a podcast and all these different things, but I'd say my real passion is.
Working with teams in particular and like going into these corporate spaces [00:06:00] and helping people understand themselves in that way.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. And so when you are doing this, I want to pause and reflect on something that I think is really important for people to hear is that one, you're multi passionate. you know, I feel like we're in a space where it's be niche, be niche, be focused, be focused. And I think that that's positive in some ways, but I also find it really challenging You know, for some people like myself, I know you also, I think I read somewhere that you really love books and you read a lot of different kinds of books and maybe you posted about that on Instagram or something.
And I was like, that caught my eye too, because I, I read a lot. I talk about writing. but I think it's good for women to hear that you can be multi passionate. and you can kind of focus on all these different things in your life once you have a stable outlet for how you're going to build a career around your life. so I thought that was really interesting that you shared [00:07:00] that because that obviously is important enough for you that it was, you know, at the forefront of your mind. but also I heard that, you took several pivots along the way to get here, which I think is really important for people to stay open minded to. and I was curious how you see the Enneagram fits in with people as they age or if, cause you know, in some of the other personality tests, you know, if you take one and then five years later, you're in a different life space or a different season, you may come out with a different, personality type based on theirs. Is Enneagram that way where it shifts or are you usually always going to be kind of defined in the same way because it's motivation based?
Stephanie Barron: Sure. So, yes, the assessment result will shift. Okay, but that doesn't mean your type shifts. So that's one thing I really encourage people when they take an assessment is to really dig in and see, okay, what really fits for me? And I actually take [00:08:00] an approach that looks at all 27 subtypes. So not just the nine core types, but there are 27 distinct subtypes.
and that's going to give you the most accurate understanding of who you are. but your type does not change, is the theory. Your entire life, you're the same type. And I think sometimes people don't like that because they find it to be limiting. we want to believe that we can change. And I believe that people can change, that we can change.
We grow, we develop, but that doesn't mean the core of who we are changes. we simply are not bound by those patterns that forced us in a certain direction. So, The way that I think about it is that we have a specific lens, especially we'll see our type most clearly ages 20 to 25. and that's when it's like, Full strength.
You know, we haven't gotten a lot of feedback yet. We haven't learned a lot of things about ourselves and about the world. we haven't been knocked [00:09:00] down that much. I mean, a lot of us have been knocked down, but, but perhaps not in the working world and as an adult and learned how to cope with all of that, you know?
and so when we are so set in our personality patterns, it's like looking through a pinhole. And the growth work that we do is like widening the lens. So you can just see more and more and more and more, throughout life. So it's not to say that you are, you know, changing, in the sense of changing who you are, but that you're just growing and changing and becoming different.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. And so how do you see that would play out? You know, if, if a woman came to you who was struggling, balancing it all, figuring out like, how can I really love my job more? How can I find more fulfillment? You know, do I need to take a step back? Do I need to forge forward? Should I take a career pause?
Like all these, you know, big concepts that happen and [00:10:00] I see. Pretty routinely in women, let's say 28 to 40, I see these kind of big questions start bubbling up of what I thought and I was so gung ho and ambitious and I want to, conquer the world when you're getting out of college and then life happens and all these things shift and you just have different priorities maybe that are competing with one another. That doesn't mean you're not ambitious. Okay. I always hate to say that is do you have a different season in life? It doesn't mean you're not ambitious. But you just have competing priorities. So how do you think, that leaning into the Enneagram and doing some deep work on And this could help somebody in that situation kind of gain clarity, figure out what might make the most sense, maybe prioritize in a way that will help them move easier through life.
Stephanie Barron: Yeah. So I think that really identifying what the driving forces are, which is what we call motivations in the Enneagram space. I [00:11:00] think identifying those is what actually helps us to see, okay, this is the story that I am believing, must be true about me or about myself or about my life or, you know, about my career.
and what if this is not the only story? so I could, run through all nine types and just give some examples of how that might play out. Because I think that that's kind of might illuminate things a little bit better.
Crystal Ware: Great.
Stephanie Barron: okay. So this is another caveat. when I talk about the Enneagram, I start from the intelligence centers.
So there are three centers. We have the body, which is types 8, 9, and 1, the heart, which is types 2, 3, and 4, and the mind, which is types 7. So I'll start with the body types, which means I'll start with type 8. So 8s are motivated by this need to be against, and it's not against in the sense of just to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but really to say, Hey, I'm going to push back.
I'm going to [00:12:00] show you a tough exterior. I'm going to be decisive and, strong so that you can't overtake me and, make me feel vulnerable or make me feel weak. And eights tend to have kind of that tough exterior, even though they tend to be very soft and kind people, beneath the surface.
so. Something that I've seen AIDS do in this scenario is they think, I can't change direction now. That'll seem wishy washy. That will show that I don't know what I'm doing. Andthat will leave me vulnerable. That'll leave me open. AIDS really feel secure when they know I'm doing the thing that I'm supposed to do.
Now, AIDS are very bold though. So a lot of the time they can pivot when they feel like they want to. but it might feel like weakness at times to decide to pivot. And so that can be a challenge for them. for nines, they are motivated by a need to be at peace internally and externally. And so they really create this calm, [00:13:00] peaceful space for themselves.
by tamping things down, and kind of repressing a lot of stuff. And they are very warm and diligent and fair individuals, but, they can also struggle to really know what they want. And I find that sometimes when they're, especially, women in their thirties, especially if they've had kids and their kids are starting to, go to school and they're like, Oh no, what do I do now?
You know, what is my purpose in life? I've been going along to get along and now all of a sudden it's not fulfilling anymore. What do I do? And, so it might be really challenging for them. They might face difficulty in pivoting because they're thinking, well, I'm going to rock the boat. And they don't want to do that.
That feels really intolerable for nines, but it's a really important part of their growth process. And so you can see for both eights and nines, there's a way that they have to step out of their normal pattern, right? And this is how it is for all nine types. We have to step out of the normal [00:14:00] pattern and do something different.
And that's what kind of opens things up for us. So let's talk about one to that. I want to hear a little bit of your, feedback so far. So ones are motivated by a need to be good, right, and correct. And it's not good at things. It's to be a good, moral, ethical person. And they have a really strict moral code.
And ones, they are very determined, and once they make up their mind, it's very difficult for them to change it because they can be so black and white and because a lot of the time they've decided I've found the right and correct way to do this and changing, can confront that. They have to be willing to say, okay, I am going to change direction and I'm willing to be uncertain, which is really, really difficult for most of us, but especially for ones, the uncertainty can feel like they don't know what the next right step is.
And that's really, really hard. confronting in the sense that they think if I make a mistake here, I'm a bad person. I'm [00:15:00] wrong. I'm corrupt. I'm doing something for my own selfish gain instead of for the betterment of the world, that sort of thing. so that's where ones can struggle.
Crystal Ware: Yeah.
Stephanie Barron: do you think about these three so far?
Crystal Ware: Well, I think it's really interesting. And when you hear, and when you see, and you take time to pause on that and reflect on Ooh, who do I know that fits in that category? That makes sense why it might be difficult for somebody to do X, Y, and Z or why, they may all of a sudden be showing signs of something different. and I think it's really interesting, cause I know before we got on, we were, I was talking about, I have not yet gotten to take the other test. but the test that I had taken, I guess it was about a year and a year and a half ago. I was an eight. And when you were saying that I was like, Oh my gosh, that is. I mean just that is Very much, what I would say if you didn't tell if I didn't hadn't taken a test I would have guessed that that is me. so [00:16:00] I think
it's really interesting and so you know, my, my follow up question would be that, once somebody kind of dives in and starts doing this work and tries to start seeing where, in, how can they use that feedback to right the ship or allay some of the fears they might be having or some of that wishy washy feelings. what, what is your experience and how people work through that with the knowledge?
Stephanie Barron: Yeah. It's really difficult to give like blanket advice because it's so different for each person, but I think part of the concept of zooming out is helpful because you can start to recognize, Oh, this is the story that I'm telling myself. This is what I'm telling myself. It will mean about my life or about myself or my personality or my career if I make this change.
But what if that's not true? You know, what if there's a different [00:17:00] way that I could approach this? I think that's a really good question. I think a lot of the time for most of us, we need to tap into a different intelligence center than.so I just went through the body types. eights are generally pretty aware of their gut instinct and they have a really hard time going against it.
Nines and ones need a little bit more connection to their gut instinct, but it's still there if they can learn to listen to it. eights, nines and ones, a lot of the time need more access to the heart center. so being able to access that and being like, okay, let me settle in. And, Not only feel what's going on in my gut, but what are my feelings telling me?
what data can I get from my emotional side? that's really useful. Twos, threes, and fours, which we'll review in a second, I find can actually benefit a lot from getting more in touch with their body, taking a little bit more action or feeling, what does my gut say about this? If that feels really easy, then connecting with the head center, asking some [00:18:00] good questions and, asking things like, do I have capacity for this?
That sort of thing. and then the head types, a lot of the time, and they don't need both, but they can access emotions easier through going through the body or the gut center first. So again, like taking action, feeling their entire body, not just feeling like I'm just a head on top of a body, but like I am, I am a full body and I have a full body.
So, feeling what it feels like to be in the physical world can be helpful.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. How are, how, I know you've done a lot of work on the corporate level and with, companies and, intimate groups or bigger groups of people. And this is one that I have not experienced having worked in corporate for 12 years or so. this was not one of the ones that I ever saw come up or people were utilizing.
Is this something that has grown in the more recent years?
Stephanie Barron: Yes, it's definitely been, growing, I'd say, and a lot of the companies I work with are really, really large companies, [00:19:00] that have some leadership who has recognized There is a lot of research about different things like how, intent to turn over is decreased when people feel known and understood by their managers, or things like emotional intelligence and the importance of that in the workplace and how it's really expensive to replace people.
So let's try to help people feel really happy and connected and fulfilled in their work now. And taking that more holistic approach. So I think as companies recognize that, that more people want to do this type of work, but it's still vulnerable, which can be a challenge. especially, you know, when we're in companies that don't want to go into the vulnerable spaces, or their company culture is such that they feel really divorced from any sort of personal experiences at the workplace.
So I think that those things are relevant.
Crystal Ware: Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, [00:20:00] on my end of the spectrum, that's what I've seen. I mean, it's, it's obviously known in the numbers and the, data that, retaining is much cheaper than, attracting and hiring new people. but we are in a space where, you know, burnout is so vast for so many people.
I know you referenced that in your former jobs as well. Like women are feeling so overwhelmed, so overworked, you know, pulled in so many different directions, but you can get back centered when you feel at peace and happiness. And happy with your role. That that's what I believe. and when you do this, you know, I'm thinking of all the ways that like a company could use this and realigning what teams look like and, getting people on a path to what kind of, role might be a better suited role or what kind of work works for somebody.but having worked at a company of over a hundred thousand people, I also You know, on the [00:21:00] back end, are you seeing companies really forging forward in this and like really getting people on a plan? and taking the next steps that really will take it from, this is a project, this is the work that we're doing in the moment, in the presence, but taking step two, three, and four to really shift that culture and help the employees, find a sense of satisfaction,
Stephanie Barron: Yeah. I mean, It really depends. I've certainly had companies that are all in, they're invested, they put their types on Slack, like they have really leveled the playing field, in the sense of, it's not just some teams get this or just the leadership gets this training, but everyone in the organization does.
And I find that to be really useful. But, you know, it's challenging. It's an expensive thing to do. And, I don't really like to force people into doing this type of work necessarily. Right? So, I don't think that's going to be [00:22:00] useful either. So, I think of it as more of, you know, we do a session and then it's kind of an invitation into doing deeper work, self work.
there are some things that, you know, you can't require people to like journal, you
Crystal Ware: course.
Stephanie Barron: or that sort of thing. Absolutely.
Crystal Ware: for sure. But do you see like if somebody really is looking for a role that is going to be such a good fit for them and really help them come alive or at the end of the day, if it's just a nine to five and you're like literally going to leave the work at home, right? Like you're just trying to find a job that, is functional, that's going to pay you and you, it doesn't take away from your life. But do you see that if somebody personally was working on this, they could equip themselves with maybe some of the right questions, maybe some of the right evaluation of a role in advance. So like taking more personal responsibility on it, then going into an organization and expecting we're going to do all this work together.
And then suddenly it's going to be, a big change.
Stephanie Barron: I think, it can be really helpful to do that on a personal [00:23:00] level because, it helps you know yourself better. So for you to recognize, Oh, it's not just This work that I like, this is what I liked about this work environment. This is what I liked about the type of work. or I really like to be challenged.
I really like to have independence or I really like to work closely with somebody else. I really like to have somebody to bounce ideas off of. These are all just ways of knowing ourselves and being able to articulate what I know about myself, in whether that's in a job interview or you can read it.
something and say, Oh, I actually know that I'm not going to like that type of thing. I don't recommend ever that people use the Enneagram like in recruitment to select the quote unquote correct types of people. but I do think it's helpful for somebody looking for a job to say, okay, what do I know about myself that will make me feel great?
so example, a type three is probably not going to a job that has no sense of [00:24:00] Feedback, metrics, results, anything like that. Those are three things that threes really, really thrive on. So even if it's not metrics, which, so I'm type three. So whenever I was working in that data field that I mentioned earlier, I loved the metrics, that was really exciting for me, right?
Because I could see, Oh, here's my sales goal. And I met it because I was able to finesse things like push these things forth. Et cetera. So that was always really fun for me. it wasn't so fun because the entire team wasn't as competitive as I was. So I was like, all right, cool. It's Stephanie.pull back, don't get so crazy about this.
but maybe it's not that sort of role where there are direct metrics. Maybe it's a role where, you get feedback from your boss. if you are somebody who wants feedback, And you don't get it, that's going to be difficult, right? So looking at things and, and noticing, what makes sense. I guess on that note, I should give [00:25:00] an example, a space where I've, I've seen some threes struggle as being a teacher because
you don't actually get feedback from other people around you who are doing your same job.
Crystal Ware: Yeah,
Stephanie Barron: So occasionally, right. Somebody will come in and say. They'll observe your class and they'll tell you how you're doing, but you're not getting the day to day like, Hey, you're doing a great job here. Hey, how, here's how you can improve here, et cetera. And I've seen some threes really struggle with, with the isolation of that.
Crystal Ware: yeah, that's really interesting feedback. and that's important for people to understand. I mean, I think about that all the time. You know, you kind of like, I don't want to say meander, because I have not meandered in my life. You go through life and if you had that right mentor or a parent or the teacher or somebody like early in your life that really knew you and could kind of help ask the right questions of you early on, [00:26:00] are you able to get on the path? to finding something, you know, that is going to really light you up and works for you and, pays you what you want and all those kinds of things earlier. instead, I think in our culture, we just focus on what's going to pay the most, that used to be doctor and lawyer.
And then, we had, the tech boom. and then it's like social media influencers. And as my kids who are in elementary school,even though I limit their YouTube, somehow they know all about YouTube and they're like, what is Mr. Beast? Or what is the perfect gamer? I don't know all these people's names, but they think that somehow that's a really viable job option of just like making all this money. and I just wish there was like some way for us to steward young people into, a path that would, evolve, but maybe in a more simple way. So I always think it's interesting, like getting in tune with yourself, really knowing the job market and what's out there. and I love helping people.
I mean, I just love [00:27:00] talking to women about like how you can get, find yourself in a position to make whatever kind of money you want, whatever that is. but that works for your life and your personality, because I just think it's really, really important to not be stuck in a job that you hate because that drains your life force in a major, major way
Stephanie Barron: Yeah. I mean, I hear what you're saying. And also part of me pushes back on that because I'm like, but isn't it part of the process of finding yourself to meander a bit?
Crystal Ware: that, that is very true. Yeah.
Stephanie Barron: There's nothing wrong with Having to be like, well, that was not the direction I wanted in question. And to build the self trust of being able to say, okay, like thinking back to that moment where I was, I remember still when I was in a parking garage walking to my car and I was like, when was I last really thrilled in my day to day career and having to be like, I'm [00:28:00] going to make this big pivot.
Like I'm going to have this conversation with my husband about going back to school and like having those decision points I think that there's something that really builds us when we trust ourselves in those moments.
Crystal Ware: No, that's absolutely correct. And you're right. And I think about that all the time of you know, I know you're on the West coast, I'm here in Texas still. And there was a point where, I had gotten this kind of crappy job out of college. And I knew it was just a holding place.
Cause I was going to go back to school at some point, but right before I was making the decision, somebody that I knew that was living in Oregon had offered me a position, to be a consultant at what would have been, like a huge. Salary for me, I mean, in today's world, it wasn't, it's not really that huge, but at the time it felt really huge.
And to make that decision of what if, what if, what if, what if, but I'd already kind of like set my eyes on going to graduate school of some sort. And I said no to that. and certainly maybe that would have been the path of least resistance in some [00:29:00] ways, but yeah, I think back to those kind of, inflection points in your life and think to myself, you know what?
I wouldn't trade anything because I absolutely love my life. But when I think about that, like of how we can guide people better, it's for the people that I see truly that are stuck, that don't have the courage or, the boldness or, they're held back by fear or whatever that may be. and that just makes me so sad, is people that, you know, kind of get stuck for whatever their, whatever their reasons are, and don't move forward and just kind of like. live in a career that is sucking their life out of them. I don't know how else to say that because but I do think that people are in the wrong position. Their life, it's like sucking the lives out of them. but
I do, I do agree with you that there is some beauty in the journey of, of getting to
where you're meant to be.
Stephanie Barron: Yeah, even though it's very uncomfortable
Crystal Ware: It definitely
Stephanie Barron: I go shall I run through the other three or the other six types
Crystal Ware: Yeah, absolutely.
Stephanie Barron: [00:30:00] Okay, so heart types now. So two, three, and four, twos are motivated by a need to be loved and, to feel really positive rapport with other people. So it's not just like they want everyone to fall over and be like, Oh, you're so amazing.
But they really want to feel that positive connection and encouragement and mutual, kind of just warmth and affection between it.and so they do whatever they can to cultivate that and one of the challenges that to sometimes feel is they feel ones, twos, and threes, all three feel over responsible.
about everything about everyone else and to feel really over responsible about, other people in their lives. And so sometimes that's a struggle that they can have if they want to make a pivot because they're thinking, how is this going to affect everyone else? If they have to leave a job, they're thinking about everyone else.
They're not thinking about their own flourishing. They're thinking about what about my coworkers? Like what about these other people around me? [00:31:00] It's that conscientiousness that comes out. Threes have a hard time with this as well, to an extent. so threes are motivated by the need to be successful. And success is really about not just.
accolades or that sort of thing, but it's about other people telling them, Hey, you're worthy, you're valuable. I admire you, you're impressive, those sorts of things. So they want to do whatever they can to be impressive to other people, because from an early age, they've been told your worth is in your productivity and in your performance.
And that's a big part of the unlearning that we have to do. and so threes can feel like, what, how does it look if I change careers now? How does it look if I, if I leave this business? How does it look if I, leave this illustrious career? I had somebody on my podcast recently who was a three and she's a lawyer.
And, she left to become a novelist and everyone was like, are you kidding me? [00:32:00] Right? But she was like, I hate practicing law. And so that was a challenge. So that's a difficulty three space when making a pivot.
so fours are motivated by this need to find and express their true ascent of self, and that can seem a little bit woo woo or, Like whimsical for people, but four is, I think, really get it because they're like, they think there's always something more to know about themselves.
They're very introspective. They're always looking inside. and I think a lot of the time fours get really stuck because they think I'm not worth it. Like I don't deserve this change or they dream and dream and gaze about. oh, I could do this. I could do this and they dream about it and they don't actually take action because they kind of daydream themselves out of it and sometimes they think The worst thing might happen and then what will I do, you know?
So they kind of get stuck in that then we have our head types five six and seven. fives like their neighbor type four are also very introspective. but fives are really motivated by this need to be [00:33:00] capable and competent and self sufficient and fives tend to get really stuck in thinking through things.
They, they want to know the answer before they begin. And so, Again, like it can be difficult to pivot because they have to go into the unknown and they might have to ask somebody for help. and fives really don't want to do that because it opens them up to feeling really depleted because it takes away their emotional energy and their mental energy and their time, space, all that stuff.
so that can be a challenge for fives. which a great five to listen to about this is,
Kelly Thompson, author of, yeah, Closing the Confidence Gap. She's a five and she talked about that on my podcast. If you want to listen to that as well, I can send you the link. but fives have a really hard time going out into the unknown because.
They just want to feel certain. and sixes are similar. So sixes are motivated by this need to be secure and to feel stable. And they have a lot of fear. so [00:34:00] sixes do everything that they can to avoid experiencing fear. So they think ahead, they plan ahead. They think everything through to the end, like what will happen.
What if this happens? What if this happens? What if this happens? They process all of that. Some sixes are willing to just dive right in. They're still driven by fear, but they seem quite eight ish, in a sense. so they're willing to just confront the f the scary situation. this is kind of a silly example, but I've heard it tru be true so many times.
sixes who are afraid of heights. Go skydiving. so some sixes are like that, whereas other sixes, move away from fear. So they like to feel like they have alliances, like they're not alone and they have other people around them who can, kind of work with them and they can be together.
They don't like to go out on their own. And so making a change is really, really, really challenging for sixes. like fives and sixes, both can be [00:35:00] Can find it really advantageous to shorten their timeline. I've heard a six say something like okay Well for q1 i'm going to work on my resume and then q2 I'm going to work on my cover letter and then q3 i'm going to practice my interview skills and then q4 Maybe i'll apply for jobs.
So that can be a real challenge, because they need to Speed that timeline up. And then finally, we have sevens who are motivated by this need to be free to explore the world and of possibilities. And they just believe that there's something behind every corner. and something who, something interesting or exciting or fascinating that they could find.
And so sevens actually are really, really fantastic at pivoting. Sevens do not stay in things longer than they should. they tend to be people who are like, well, I will either accept this or I will change it. Like I'm not going to be miserable. but pivoting can be hard at times because sometimes sevens believe a story about themselves that [00:36:00] they are flaky or flighty.
And so they'll force themselves. No, I have to just find the positive in this. and just keep finding the silver lining because if I don't, then I'm going to be flaky or something like that. And it's helpful for sevens just to recognize their own emotions. And. and to, to recognize that they're not feeling great, in that moment.
those are all nine types. and there's so much more to them. even if you're listening, somebody might be thinking that didn't really nail how I experienced it. that's because there are so many more expressions of the type. We all have these different layers of ourselves. but that's just a brief overview.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. And you know what I, find really interesting every time I look at the Enneagram, every time I hear about it, every time I think about, how we could apply that to work and our lives and to improve things obviously is how does that overlay with relationships and love. And I know you also had another [00:37:00] book.
You have a book coming out. in the next few months, but you also have a book on how to apply the Enneagram to love. And, so I'm sure that was like thoroughly researched. You know, what are some big takeaways that we, you can share with people who are going to go figure out their type? How valuable is it to go through the book or work through your type with your significant other or your spouse?
Stephanie Barron: Yeah, it's really useful because we don't recognize that we apply our motivation to other people's behavior all the time. We try not to, but we do it anyway. So for example, if I'm the type of person, this is not me, but if I were the type of person who I get really quiet when I'm angry, and I shut down, I go to a meeting or I see my partner and I'm like, Oh, there, this other person in this room is being really quiet.
So I start assigning my motivation, which is anger, to their behavior, which is [00:38:00] them being quiet. So, they could have any other number of things. They could be thinking, they could be sick, they could be tired, they could just be having like a chill morning and not really have a lot to say. but, If I start to interact with them as if they are angry, and I assume that, then that's when we get a lot of miscommunication and challenges, interpersonally.
So that's why the Enneagram can be helpful because I can start to see, Oh, you're not, you know, angry. You have something else happening. what's happening for you today? Like, how are you doing today? And we can ask more questions and be more curious about each other. And so I find that to be really helpful.
it's been really helpful for me with my husband as well, where I'm like, Oh, you're not doing this. You know, like you are actually having this other experience that has nothing to do with. This conversation right now, this, you have a different experience that's having to do with something else. you're bringing a lot of fear to the table or these different things.
so seeing that can [00:39:00] be really, really helpful. and that's where I think it's the most important part of it. and I hear all the time, people saying,
and if it doesn't, that's also fine, it's okay, but,
Crystal Ware: But it's certainly not going to hurt it
Stephanie Barron: And unless you, you use it as a weapon, which I really don't recommend.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. Well, I think it's just so fascinating because every time, I mean, you'd learn about all these things, you have a relationship and that's what's going on at home with yourself or with your, close family friends or, you know, your parents. And as you're doing this kind of work, which usually comes up, for people, the average person, I would say at work, this is where you're exposed to personality. you know, research and thought and, in, in an effort to make a good environment, but I cannot help every single time I think about this or talk about this with people is how to apply that, to your, your love life and to your interpersonal relationships at home with family and [00:40:00] friends. and that the more you can do to be self aware, to have growth, to understand yourself, that the more all of your other relationships are going to improve as well. And I think when we can elevate that, then that just brings an elevated sense of satisfaction and happiness in our lives. And for me, that's like why I do everything that I do is, because I'm very happy. I love my life and I just want that for other people as well. And so when I saw that, you wrote that book also, and I was like, this is exactly what people need.
I mean, for 20 or people you can learn and dive into so much. that can help illuminate all these kinds of things that you probably have talked about before in your corporate life to, whoever it is that you are desiring to be close to, to have a good relationship, I'm sure you can work on it with your friends, your parents, if you have, trouble communicating with your [00:41:00] parents or a history of miscommunication there, and of course with your spouse and, and also with your children to some degree. and I think that, doing this kind of work will just bring total transformation that is, beneficial for everybody. So I just love it. I appreciate it. I'm so glad that you could come on and talk to us about this. and before we jump off, I would, you know, what else do you want people to know?
What else is something that comes up for you a lot in this space?
Stephanie Barron: Hmm. I mean, I think that the question I hear the most is, are there certain types that are most compatible? And the answer is no. there are, there might be certain types that are not compatible for you as an individual, but it's not like astrology where people are like, Oh, if you're this type, you have to be with this type,
it's more open than that. And it really is about learning and growing
Together, is my perspective. And I'd say the other thing that people get really hung up on is they take an assessment one time and then they're like, this is my [00:42:00] type. And assessments are good at looking at your behavior a lot of the time, but they're not always that good at looking at motivation.
So. I just really encourage people to go deeper, to not just look at the surface level, but go beyond that and, read, investigate, watch YouTube interviews, listen to panels, anything you can, to really find your, your core type. that is probably the most important thing that people can do.
Crystal Ware: I did have one other question that somebody, And the audience had asked about before, which was an interesting and fun question. I did a really quick search, but I was like, Oh, let me see if Steph has anybody that she knows is, are there any celebrities that we might know that you can think of that have talked about Enneagram and, or shared like what their Enneagrams are?
Stephanie Barron: Sure. So, actually, Amy Poehler went on Seth Meyers show and they talked about the Enneagram. [00:43:00] and so Amy Poehler talks about her type, which is type eight. And I loved that because if you watch the show, Parks and Rec, which I love, I think that, Leslie Knope is a social too. So that's the subtype social and then type two.
but I think she is what it looks like when an eight plays a two.
Crystal Ware: Hmm.
Stephanie Barron: there's all of this like intensity behind it that a lot of twos don't necessarily have, but eights do. So, eights have that, that grounded intensity behind a lot of things. And then Seth Meyers said he's type three, which I also really think makes sense.
Crystal Ware: Wow. That's fun. Yeah. I was like thinking when they, when they sent me that, like certainly Oprah has had to have talked about this or come out about this, but I couldn't find anything about her or anybody else like that. So,
Stephanie Barron: The other person that I know who has is Chelsea Handler and she's type eight.
Crystal Ware: okay. That's fun. Do you think there's like a trend when you see this like bold, loud, kind of funny [00:44:00] ladies that it makes sense that they would kind of like be the same thing?
Stephanie Barron: sort of. I think that I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of, actual, stand up comedians are ones, fours, fives, sixes. Those types are super, super observant. And I think stand up comedy is a lot about observation, right? and anxiety, so those types have a lot of that as well. but I, I wouldn't be surprised if there's like an abundance of, of threes and eights, in that type of business.
Crystal Ware: Yeah. Is there one? I mean, is there one or two just in general that are smaller population or larger percent of the population? Wow.
Stephanie Barron: So I don't have a ton of data on this, but I did see something that said that nines are about 17 percent of the population, which, if all things equal, you know, each type would be, 11 percent and change. So nines are kind of a bigger segment. whereas fives, [00:45:00] fours, and eights are smaller. I don't have a good sample size because people who are into the Enneagram tend to be like nines, fours, a lot of fives.
I know a lot of fives. so anecdotally, I don't have a good sample size, but that is some data I've seen.
Crystal Ware: That's interesting. Well, many blessings to you for coming on, for taking your time, for sharing this with us. We will post links and definitely follow Stephanie on Instagram and be the first to know about when her new book is coming out. And if youa few months and that's going to be Enneagram in real life.
Find your type, understand who you are and take steps for growth, which is what you guys know I'm all about. So I can't wait to hear more about that. And like I said, I'm just so fascinated about how this works for love and relationships that I I'm definitely going to run out and get her book on love and we'll link that as well.
So thank you so much for being on here for all [00:46:00] the work that you do. And I hope that the rest of your week is great.
Stephanie Barron: Thanks so much for having me. This was fun.
Crystal Ware: Thanks.