7. Patent Costs from Start to Finish

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Patent Pending Made Simple is a podcast for inventors who are looking to learn more about the patent process

Samar Shah: Hello and welcome to the
Patent Pending Made Simple podcast.

I'm your host, Samar Shah, and with
me on the line is Jamie Brophy.

Jamie, how are you?

Jamie Brophy: Hi, I'm good Samar.
How are you?

I am doing all right.

I think we recorded an episode last week
about the different stages of the patent

process and what everyone can expect.

And we talked about pricing
a little bit last week.

But I was hoping that we could record a
follow on maybe a short podcast episode

about the pricing by itself Because it
can get a little muddy when we're going

through all the different Options and
trees of what could happen in a patent

application, maybe we can just keep it
simple and give people a price expectation

so that they can get into the patent
process with an understanding of the cost.

Yeah,

Jamie Brophy: I think that's a great idea.

I know we definitely talked about how
expensive it gets for international

patents, but I don't think we really
talked about the price for each stage.

So I think that's a great idea.

Samar Shah: Great.

So I'll start this one off.

And I would love to get your input on
this, but, if you're going to file

a provisional application, I think you
should budget between three to 5, 000,

usually, depending on the invention.

For a non provisional application,
you typically want to budget seven to

10, 000, depending on the invention,
and then, if you get a rejection

from the patent office, you should
budget anywhere from two to 4, 000

for responding to that rejection.

And then, if you get your patent allowed,
there are some additional fees there.

Jamie, how is that for a general kind of
cost expectation or pricing expectation?

Jamie Brophy: Yeah, I think
that sounds about right.

And, there's a, there's quite a
range because it really depends on

the complexity of the invention.

It depends on how many different
embodiments or permutations

of the invention you have.

So there is quite a range usually, but
yeah, those prices sound reasonable to me.

Samar Shah: Great.

And then the timing piece of this for the
cost is if you were going to start with

the provisional, I would say budget three
to 5, 000 for the provisional on day zero.

If you're going to convert that into
a non provisional, I would say budget

anywhere from six to 10, 000 for the
non provisional on day 365 or year one.

And then typically you get
a rejection 18 to 24 months

after the non provisional date.

So year three or four budget
about anywhere from 2, 000 to

4, 000 for your first rejection.

And then if there's a second one,
this would be four and a half years

or so from your provisional filing
date, another 2, 000 to 4, 000.

So, hopefully that gives you a
timeline along with the cost as well.

Jamie Brophy: Yeah, and you
know what just occurred to me?

We did talk about the fast track
application at the provisional

stage and how there's an extra
cost associated with that.

Can you talk about the extra cost
for fast tracking your application?

Samar Shah: Yes.

So, the fast track fees, we
as the attorneys, we don't

charge anything extra for that.

I don't know if that's true for
all attorneys, but there's a U.

S.

government fee that you had to pay
to fast track your application.

And that's going to be about a thousand
dollars if you are a micro entity

or 2, 000 if you are a small entity.

And then it's 4, 000 if
you're a large entity.

All right, Jamie, there's one additional
thing that maybe we should talk

about, which is the search process.

Can you give everyone a cost
expectation with the search process?

Jamie Brophy: Yeah.

So for sure, before you file your non
provisional application, we strongly

recommend getting a search and a
patentability opinion before you

proceed with, all those costs with the.

Provisional and office action
responses and all that stuff.

I would say the cost for a search is
usually between 2, 000 and 4, 000.

Again, it depends on the
complexity of the search.

And again, for the timing, recommend doing
that at least two to three months before

you file your non provisional application.

Samar Shah: That's a good point.

You will sometimes see a lower
quote for the search process.

I get bombarded with emails and
commercials about searches for 400 bucks

or 800 bucks by foreign practitioners.

I always get a little nervous about that.

I don't know what kind of
protections I have with somebody in

a different country if they decide
to disclose or run with my idea.

I'm not saying they're bad.

I think a lot of practitioners and
inventors have had good luck with

foreign searchers, but I always get
a little bit nervous about my ability

to have some recourse if something
went wrong in that relationship.

Yeah, that's

Jamie Brophy: a good point.

We here at our firm use professional
searchers and they're all US based

and we've been using them for
a long time and they're pretty

Samar Shah: reliable.

I agree with that.

Jamie, what about patent illustration
fees if you're gonna file a

provisional or a non provisional?

Is that something folks need
to budget for separately?

For the

Jamie Brophy: provisional, no.

It's fine to have super informal
drawings in the provisional.

For the non provisional, yes,
you typically need to have

formal drawings prepared.

And I would say that the preparation
of the formal drawings is included

in the price you quoted, Samar.

But what do you think?

Is there, do you think they're
normally charged separately

for the formal drawings?

Samar Shah: Yeah, for us, they're all
inclusive and are flat fees, but I

would say majority of the practitioners
I know will bill for the illustration

separately beyond the attorney's fees.

Jamie Brophy: Yeah.

So the prices that we see for formal
drawings, again, it depends on the

complexity, it depends on the number
of drawings, but I think they're

usually around one to 200 per page
of drawings is what I've seen.

Is that what you've seen, Samar?

Samar Shah: That's exactly right.

For U.

S.

based illustrators, you are looking at
100 a page to 200 a page on the high end.

Foreign illustrators will do it
for typically 20 to 40 a page.

So there is quite a bit of
difference there, but we like U.

S.

based illustrators because you have the
same kind of confidentiality concerns

that you would have with searchers.

But if cost is really an issue, that's
something to think about as well.

Jamie Brophy: Yep, that sounds good.

I think that covers it all.

Was there one more thing you
wanted to talk about, Samar?

Samar Shah: Yes, I get this question
from prospective clients or folks

who call into the office from time
to time and they say, But why is

the provisional costing so much?

I saw on Google that some
attorneys or practitioners could

do it for 200 bucks or 300 bucks.

What's up with that?

And the answer is, I don't know.

If you think about it, an attorney
and a patent attorney in particular,

we're typically billing 400 an hour.

So if somebody's quoting you 200 bucks
for a provisional, I assume they're going

to spend 30 minutes on your application,
or more likely they're going to spend

zero time on your application My guess
is that those 200, 300 provisionals are

you submit something to them and they'll
just turn around and file it for you.

I don't love those because it potentially
leaves a lot of claim scope and

potentially is dangerous to your patent
process as we have discussed in some

of the other podcast episodes, Jamie.

So I would think twice about
those and make sure you're

getting good value for money.

We also have a kind of a shameless plug
here, but we have a software tool that

is also called Patent Pending Made Simple
that uses AI to help you draft the high

quality provisional patent application.

So if cost is really a
concern, we encourage you to

check out our software tool.

If you're looking at some of these
other ones that will do it for

a few hundred bucks, I would try
to understand what you're getting

for those few hundred bucks.

Yeah.

Jamie Brophy: A few hundred bucks.

Barely covers the filing fee.

I don't know what the filing fee for a
provisional is these days, but I think

it's usually at least a hundred dollars,

Samar Shah: right?

Yeah, and maybe they're
billing them separately.

I just don't know.

I just can't imagine getting much
of anything done in 30 minutes or

in a couple hundred dollars of time.

Yeah,

Jamie Brophy: definitely.

All right.

Well, this was a shorter one,
but I think we covered everything

as far as pricing for the whole
process of obtaining a patent.

I can't think of anything
else that we missed.

Do you have anything else, Samar?

Samar Shah: No, I think this is good.

We set out to have a conversation
that's fairly short about pricing

over the lifecycle of a patent.

And I think we accomplished that.

If you guys want to learn more about
international pricing expectations, I

would check out our last episode on the
patent process from start to finish.

And then if you guys have any other
questions, let us know one way or

another, and we'll get back to you or
try to address them in a future episode.

Jamie Brophy: Sounds good.

Thanks Samar.

Samar Shah: Awesome.

Thanks everyone.

Thanks for listening.

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