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A Lot of Words is a conversational deep-dive podcast hosted by Pastor Brett Schoeneck and Pastor Matt Smith, created for listeners who want biblical clarity applied to real-life questions. Each episode pulls apart the questions people actually ask—not the ones theologians wish people were asking.
From tough topics like anxiety, AI, politics, prayer, sexuality, and suffering to practical questions about how to read the Bible, how to think Christianly in a digital world, and how to follow Jesus in a noisy culture, Brett and Matt aim to give listeners honest, pastoral, and intellectually serious answers.
The show blends theology, humor, cultural analysis, and pastoral insight—inviting you into a conversation that is purposeful, biblical, and surprisingly entertaining. If you’ve ever wanted a podcast where you can actually get your questions answered, welcome to A Lot of Words.
Today we're talking about
crunchy Christianity is
granola, the food of the God.
It's basically, it's nutritional Marxism.
I think self-righteous people in,
in every category are, are in sin.
If you're spending your time being a
vaccine crusader, I wonder how many people
you share the gospel with that week.
There's people in our church that they,
they were like, don't do that podcast.
You're gonna get murdered.
Anyone that disagrees
with me, come talk to me.
My ears clogged up.
My eyes are watering.
I don't know what to, I'm
allergic to greatness.
This is why I'm glad Chauncey
started doing those like intro.
Hey, this is what's
coming in this podcast.
'cause no one would still be listening.
What's up everyone?
Welcome back to the a lot
of words podcast thumb.
Brett Shanik, join with me as
always as Pastor Matt Smith,
senior Pastor Bras Road Church, and
Chauncey Green on the ones and twos.
The guy who puts it all together.
Who's building this house?
The wizard of what we call Oz.
And what are ones and twos?
What is that?
Uh, it's like a, like on the, uh, boy,
you don't, you, you know, I, I'm doing
a pretty eloquent introduction here.
I'm sorry.
I just wanted to know
what that was and I have.
It's like a turntable,
like running ones and twos.
It's like, what'd you refer to?
Like, uh, anyone doing audio or video?
Yeah, but running the ones and twos.
That's what Dr. Gray, is it
like a line on the thing?
Um, it could, yeah.
Like channel one, channel two.
If you know what ones and twos are.
I'm not calling you out.
Please validate me.
You just, when I talk, tell me this
is gonna be, what's that word mean?
I'm like, do that to you.
This is gonna be gack all over me.
Uh, also before Matt shares
this video, he is very excited
about, um, uh, wig, wig wigwam.
If you know what wigwam socks are, it's
not, that's a, it's like an Indian tent or
something that's a Native American tent.
Um, Christopher Columbus said they
were Indian, so there's no offense.
Native American, uh, there's
none of them are listening.
Um.
Yeah.
Wig.
I said Wig, wig barn.
Someone's people are tuning in.
They're like, what is this show?
We're debating what the
name of these socks are.
It's a lot of words.
Do you already say all that?
Yeah.
Okay, let's do it.
Okay.
Now share your video.
Well, no, last week we were
talking about the Russian video
with the bear workout video.
Mm-hmm.
And I just found it.
And so Chauncey's gonna put it right here.
Is that, I'm assuming it's
playing while I'm talking.
Is it the upper third?
It'll be right here while I'm talking.
And so just while the like look
at this video, is this gonna be,
there's just two bears tested.
He's going over then punching, going
over his head in the Bears in the
background is pushing up and down.
And it is real.
It is not ai.
This is before ai.
This does not make sense.
It's pretty amazing.
This is better than you touching the bear.
Yeah.
This is better than anything.
I mean, this is, I
would've loved to be there.
I would just wanna be there.
That is, uh, awesome.
That's amazing.
So we fi figured the bear thing out.
We figured the bear continuity out.
We got wigwam socks, we got the bear.
Uh, we did a show that all came out.
'cause we're wearing the same shoes today.
Exactly.
Yeah.
We're wearing the exact
same shoes I bought.
We're not sponsored by the, the brand.
Red Wing.
Red Wing.
Not Wigwam.
And, uh, we're not sponsored by them yet.
No, but if you work, we're
not sponsored by anyone.
If you work for Red Wing,
please, you can be first.
Give us endless boots.
I think they have a lifetime warranty.
You're still offended that
my laces aren't leather.
It's really terrible.
And you missed a, a hole.
No, I, I skipped that one.
I broke it off.
That could be a Hope episode in itself.
How this, how, how, why is
anyone tuning into the how My
Laced shoes bother you so much.
All right.
What are we talking about today?
Uh, today we're talking
about crunchy Christianity.
Oh, right.
Okay.
Crunchy Christianity is granola.
The Food of the gods.
Is this from that question
last week about the Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanted to do this like three weeks ago,
but then another podcast that I listened
to came out with the exact same thing.
So I didn't wanna look
like we were copying it.
Um, I think I'm allergic to something.
My ears clogged up.
My eyes are watering.
I don't know what to, I'm
allergic to greatness.
But this is why I'm glad Chauncey
started doing those like intro, Hey,
this is what's coming in this podcast.
'cause no one would still be listening.
All right.
Well let's get Well, let's do it.
I don't even know.
So I'm gonna start with a question.
Technically.
I'm gonna start with a shout out,
um, a new section called Shout outs.
Uh, so shout out to Tim Osborne.
Okay.
Um, do you just name people and shout out?
I'm, I'm, yeah.
Well, so someone's this recently, I'm not
someone who's like, man, you're, you're
great at that podcast hosting thing.
And I said, I learned everything I knew.
From Tim Osborne.
So here's a shout out to Tim Osborne.
That's probably not that true.
Uh, he recently got super fired from
his job, and so if you're looking for
a growth marketer, um, contact me and
I'll get you in touch with Tim Osborne.
I, I, I make my shout out to Jesus.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
Mine's not as good as
that, but he's great.
Do you remember the, it was, uh,
no, Clarence Larkin who made the
Larkin charts in Revelation Uhhuh.
He, the intro, if you can
go find this internet.
Clarence Larkin.
Yeah.
He dedicates his book to G Oh my God.
It's great.
It's like a football player.
I love it.
I wrote your forward.
And then he is like, this book
is dedicated to Jesus Christ.
Amen.
I need to dedicate, go
check out Larkin charts.
Uh, they're amazing.
If you wanna understand Revelation.
Uh, Matt also preached through it, so
we're gonna do crunchy Christianity.
So then it's okay.
What does that mean?
Uh, crunchy Christianity.
I knew you would ask that.
So I asked Chad BT to define it.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
Wow.
There's a definition.
It literally says, gimme the definition.
I know in the panoply of things
that, you know, this definition is
probably not gonna be one of them.
Um, crunchy Christianity.
I'm gonna start, actually,
I'm running the show here.
I'm gonna start with a question.
Oh, okay.
And then we'll get into
crunchy Christianity.
Okay.
So this question I wanna
get to two at the end too.
We'll see how it goes.
But I know if I get going on this,
I'm never getting to the question.
So we'll start with one,
have one at the end.
Okay.
Um, leads into my popcorn question.
Matt, did you ever watch Barney as a kid?
The big purple dinosaur.
I was too old for that.
You told for Barney.
I was born in 1979.
I mean, you could, Barney was
cool if you were in high school.
No, I don't think Barney came.
He out a black belt in Kar.
When did Bar Kar come out?
I have no idea.
Wasn't he a black belt in karate?
I think that's legendary.
I think I told you that.
Is it?
Wouldn't it be a Le Legend?
Yeah, but I don't think
he's, but my kids watch Kate.
My oldest kids watch Barney, so.
Oh, I watched Barney.
You're younger than me.
Well, that as you're like,
you're a lot younger than me now.
I, I thought Barney was awesome.
How old are you?
Um, I'll be turning 43.
I mean, so I'm 4 47 turning.
Am I 47 right now?
I have no idea.
Yeah.
I'm 47.
I'm not 48, so Yeah.
I'm only four years older than you.
So I don't think you watched it as a kid.
I think you were, maybe you were
in high school watching Bardy.
I very well could have been.
We had, we had, we didn't have
like a, a television with a
clicker until I was in high school.
We, uh, we had to run
up and turn the knob.
Oh gosh.
But it was whatever was on channel two.
All right.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Um, yeah, it's old.
We were poor.
But this comes from Carson.
Okay.
Um, he says the Christian
response to dinosaurs.
That's why I talked about Barney.
That's perfect.
Um, what is, what is a biblical
response to the argument of
dinosaurs contradicting the Bible?
And thanks for your question, Carson,
and if you have any questions, please
go do a lot of words podcast.com.
Click the big button that
says, ask a question.
Yeah.
Um, dinosaurs contradicting the
Bible, like as if, like, I think
he's saying like, like thesaurus
Rex, like, that's not a good word.
I mean, what is a, what, what,
what would, what would be
contradictory about dinosaurs?
So the, let me unpack that.
So the, the age, there's like
a bunch of assumptions here.
Let's just, yes.
There you tackle.
There you go.
Yes.
Um, nothing in the Bible would
be against dinosaurs in any way.
The conflict isn't whether
there were dinosaurs.
The conflict is whether the
earth is billions of years old
or whether it's a younger earth.
Um.
The, okay.
There are a couple things like,
so job refers to dinosaurs
clearly at the end of job, right?
Yes.
Um, 40 to 42 basically.
And he talks about Leviathan and behemoth.
And so you have the two basic views
is Leviathan certainly looks like.
So, okay.
Let, let me give you the most
sort of like, I don't know,
what do you wanna call it?
The most skeptical kind of view Yes.
Is that these were animals
that were a hippo and like
a, an alligator or something.
I think they say a platypus.
There's no pla.
So, so, so the, but Leviathan was, it
describes a, like a giant creature with
scales and teeth for doors and armor.
And then it says when you rattle the saber
and, and the spear doesn't do anything.
So it says a few things.
It also says he lives in the marsh,
that when he comes down his, you know,
smoking like fire from his nostrils.
And so you have a few things.
First of all.
We don't know a lot about dinosaurs.
Like we say, we, we know,
we, we assume quite a bit.
We can build, um, skeletons.
I think dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Um, I think they, they're awesome.
I love dinosaurs.
I'm a big Dino fan.
However, um, if you ever look at
those videos or pictures of what
if they were fat and furry, like
they, they, you can make 'em cute.
Like if you look at the skeleton
of a dolphin, it's terrifying.
Or if you look at a skeleton of an
elephant, it's a really scary skeleton.
And imagine not knowing what an elephant
looked like and imagining some ginormously
powerful, uh, strong, uh, muscular
looking creature with fangs or something
like, you know, in other words, what
the animal looked like with flesh on it.
We have some ideas, um, but lemme go back.
The picture in the
Bible, dinosaurs existed.
And then secondly, one of the fictions
that we have to address, and maybe I'm,
I don't wanna go out too on a limb, I'm
just not prepared to be articulate here.
That's why it's a lot of
words, not articulate words.
Um.
Is Jurassic Park.
One of the things I love is we
forget, like in the book, when
you read the book, one of the big
things in Jurassic Park that's
fictional but interesting was whether
dinosaurs were warm-blooded or not.
And so when you watch the
movie, you kind of forget that
that was one of the premises.
But in general, most people would
think dinosaurs would be cold-blooded,
like reptiles, like giant lizards.
Right.
And the reason that Jurassic Park
premised that for the plot was maybe
they're related to birds, was that
they're warm blooded because that
means they have a high metabolism,
which means they move very quickly.
When you have a high metabolism, you need
to eat a lot and you need to hunt a lot.
Whereas like an alligator can eat
like once every six months or whatever
it is, and just kind of chill out.
And they sit still for a long period
of time and they can move quickly.
But you know, you can be on a golf course
with a dinosaur called an alligator,
and you can just see it and just.
Walk by it.
Like it's not chasing you everywhere, but
so, so you couldn't even imagine that.
So like if you imagine dinosaurs as
reptiles, I do, I think it's less
fun because you could have these
giant sort of relatively alligator
like creatures that would be giant
and scary, but not running through
everything like velociraptors and rexes.
And then secondly, did
dinosaurs and man coexist?
I absolutely think they did.
The Bible seems to indicate
that, um, most is dinosaurs
would've died out in the flood.
Um, but you know, you still
have alligators, you still
have different things.
So that's my basic view.
I think the earth is
younger than we think.
Um, we've recently discovered like DNA
and bones of dinosaurs, so we have to
say, well, hey wait, that's interesting.
We've even found dinosaurs with
actually skin on it and whatnot.
So clearly dinosaurs exist.
They are talked about in the Bible
and in every ancient culture describes
dragons and different things.
Um.
As like a normal occasion.
So I just think that all evidence
points to not only there being dinosaurs
obviously, but that they were often
called dragons or serpents or whatnot,
and that they lived among people.
And so that's really comports with what
we see in the Bible and the fossil record.
Um, I think what really is at stake is
whether the, I'd call it the mythology
of sort of, you know, long earth
evolutionary idea, uh, where you had
dinosaurs existing as a, as an epoch
of time, separate than other things.
Um, yeah, I don't think that's true.
So, yeah, I dunno if that
answers the question.
It does, yeah.
I think most people don't, don't
realize that job speaks about them.
Um, but I think the cold-blooded
thing's interesting.
Very interesting.
Also like lizards.
Like reptiles don't stop
growing till they die.
Yeah.
So if you have things living for
a long time, not stopping, like
well that's kind of imagine an
alligator living for 500 years.
Like that's mm-hmm.
Especially pre entropy.
Yeah.
So, anyways, there you go.
No, that's good.
Yeah.
Carson, you can also go to
answers and Genesis has a ton
of, uh, literature on this.
And also you can watch a good
film, a good movie called is
Genesis History And Jurassic Park.
And Jurassic Park.
Yes.
And you could look up furry dinosaurs.
That's a fun, yeah.
And or Barney, who is also a
dinosaur, he is a, he's a purple one.
He's friendly.
Alright.
Crunchy Christianity.
It's so crunchy.
Yeah.
What is the definition of it?
Um, well, I'm gonna read that right now.
Thank you for asking.
Yes, you're welcome.
Sometimes I have the answers too.
I, I still love how ridiculous you love.
You just hand me the paper jerky neck.
I, I keep trying to do it.
It is, it is the joke that
keeps, keeps on giving.
So what are we doing?
All right.
Uh, crunchy Christianity.
I'll give you the definition
that chat, chat GPT gave me.
There is no other place you'd
find the definition, um, in chat.
No.
Yeah, there's the crunchies define
themselves as crunchies, and I refuse
to go to any of their Reddit threads.
Um, I just can't, I can't.
There's people that call
themselves crunchies.
Yeah.
Oh dear.
Yep.
Is it like the furries?
Okay, whatever.
Keep going.
What is it?
What is it?
I, okay, we go.
I don't know what it is.
It's like, no, no, no, no, no.
You don't Let me.
Okay.
I got the, you're gonna have to just
hold your WA there for a second.
All right.
Crunchy Christianity is a mindset
among some Christians that emphasizes
natural living skepticism towards
modern systems, especially in food,
medicine and institutions, and a desire
to return to what is perceived as a
more God designed or pure way of life.
It often includes preference for
organic whole and minimally processed
foods, interest in natural remedies,
supplements and alternative health
practices, skepticism of big pharma,
government, and large institutions.
A desire for simplicity,
homesteading or older ways of living.
A strong emphasis on personal
research and individual autonomy.
That said, I'll ask you my first question.
Well, before I ask, lemme just tell
you what I think about the definition.
Basically, it's nutritional, Marxism.
Because it's not saying unpack.
Yeah.
That's, that's first of all.
Amazing.
Well, you, like this is, this is
the whole point of the show, right?
Is we can see how to think
worldview in real time.
So the things you said there, if
you look at that definition and
everyone think about what you just
said, is the, the, you said things
that are very sort of uninteresting.
Oh, you prefer to eat good
food and you prefer to, okay.
None of those things are controversial.
It's the reference to read again about
the systemic it, the, the, the systems,
uh, there and then personal resources.
So essentially it's, it's conspiratorial.
It's built on the idea that there's
a systemic sort of oppression.
Big pharma, there's always a, so remember
in Marxist thinking, you're always
thinking of some kind of oppressor.
And the problems that you have
is that there's some sort of
oppressor and conspiracy really
helps be the mechanism to push this.
And so now you have big
pharma, it's big sugar.
And look, there's, as I'm saying this,
there's people getting really irritated
with, oh yeah, right this second.
Oh my gosh, don't you know,
and there's somehow related to
the Epstein files, I'm sure.
So.
The, the big issue is no one's debating
that there's, you know, financial
incentives and structural institutions.
No one's saying any of those
things are problematic.
The problem is once we start using the
language of like a oppression oppressor,
that you're being nutritionally
oppressed and you need to basically free
yourself from the matrix essentially
and find the stuff it takes on all the
same structures of sort of cultural
Marxism, the same ones you see about,
you know, critical race theory.
And then you see in sort of the stuff
in the, the Stupid No Kings rally
where we, I agree we don't have a king.
That's great.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I just think that that language,
everything structures, whenever you hear
that word Q whenever it's structured,
oh, there's that person's racist,
like, no, no, it's the institution.
I'm like, well then you can't, that,
that word is always about de destroy
destroying institutions of the west.
It's revenge of the losers.
I'll just answer everything right now.
We can stop the show.
Eat what you want, crunchy Christianity.
If you wanna be healthy, be healthy.
What?
What?
I don't.
These people.
Sorry.
No, that's good.
Yeah.
If you're a crunchy person, you subscribe.
You're welcome.
Sorry to blast you.
This is the first episode
where we lose subscribers.
Yeah, I know it.
Um, I'll, I'll break apart.
Those are the guys that
like our alien episode.
I'll break apart a little bit.
So, um, is it un then, you
know, ruling out, is it sinful?
Is probably not the, is it
sinful to eat processed food?
Lemme go.
Is it unwise as someone who is a steward
of their physical body to eat processed
food, could like processed food?
Uh, McDonald's, taco Bell?
Yeah.
No, I just want burgers, but yeah.
Um.
So we said this last week,
just a kind of refresher.
Um, some people, the question last week
that's prompted this was did, uh, is,
you know, if our bodies are a temple,
you know, we, we remind ourselves
that's a reference not to nutrition,
but to the fact that y'all's body is
the plural, is talking about the church
being the set apart temple of God.
And that what we do individually is
part of parcel of affecting the whole.
Um, it's not a reference to our physical
bodies, particularly in our health.
Uh, that said, we are embodied souls.
We, our bodies matter.
The things we do with our bodies matter.
Um, but the category of food.
It's talked about in the Bible and
it, it is, it is not a moral category.
And so you're, when you mentioned
wise, that's a really key thing.
I'm just catching everyone up.
Um, of course the people watching this
episode probably watch all the episodes,
so I don't need to do that, but, um, which
is why you should watch all the episodes.
But, uh, no.
So the, the question you're
asking was what again?
'cause I had to kind of, I wanted to
kind of, I wanna make sure you framed it.
Oh, wise?
Yeah.
Is is it, is it unwise knowing
that we are, I'm not saying
our body is a temple as Yeah.
Scripture refers to the church.
I'm saying that since we are stewards
of our physical body, is it unwise to
fill your body with processed food?
Yeah.
Well, is it unwise to walk around without
a helmet knowing things might fall on you?
I mean,
like, is it, is it that that's
the whole process of like, let
me, let's do COVID for example.
The, that's so funny.
I was not, was not
prepared for that response.
It was so good.
I think I just nailed it in one second.
Like, the question is absurd because it,
we don't make decisions about something
being wise or not in a zero sum game.
We don't say.
Is it wise to not get sick?
Of course it's wise to not get sick.
Is it wise to wear a mask all day and
live in a bubble so you don't get sick?
No, because there's more factors
than just not getting sick in life.
Like we make all sorts of risk assessments
when we do different things, right?
So if I wanna drive my car,
is it wise to say driving cars
can cause you to crash and die?
Yes.
It can cause you to crash and die.
So is it wise to not drive cars?
Um.
I don't know.
It's up to you.
I think that there's sort
of a cost benefit here.
Um, there's a risk that you sort
of ascent to in the, uh, in the,
in operating now, is it wise to
drive cars when you're drunk?
No.
You know, so there's, there's
a whole scale of things.
So I think those people
ask these questions.
I think moral categories is, the reason
people like them is that it gives them
the ability to make absolute statements.
But when you ask if something's
wise, there's lots of
things that come into play.
So I'll give you an example.
Is it wise to spend money?
You don't have to eat food that's
hard to get, that's perishable faster
so that you might be more nutritious
and now you're spending all this time
doing this when you could have just
been working out and being relaxed.
But instead you're like giving
yourself an aneurysm, trying to find
the food you're gonna eat all like,
so if it's convenient to eat healthy
and choosing healthy, that's great.
Um.
And if you have like an
allergy or something.
Okay, I get it.
You know, um, if you want to try a
diet, like I'm totally all for people
saying, Hey, I wanna try this thing.
It's just when we wanna weight
the decisions as if there's
an embedded aught and a should
that we have to watch out for.
And I'm, I'm really big on this.
I love to push my preferences
on people because I love them.
And what I mean by that is if I have
a preference for something, it's
because I think it's the best thing.
And it'd be, and I tell people about
that preference 'cause I want them to
have it because I think it's the best.
I mean, look, we're wearing the
same shoes, although, you know,
so, um, I bought these first.
Yeah, I'll say it again.
Okay.
Let's just go back.
So my point is, I'm not gonna debate this.
Um, I ride a motorcycle,
that's why I have boots.
Oh yeah.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
Ride a motorcycle, not just for show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't, I like your show boots.
You're like a show pony.
Uhhuh.
That's true.
I am a show pony.
I don't go fight people all the time.
That's, but I still do juujitsu.
But anyways, what were we saying?
Also ridiculous.
It is ridiculous.
Yes.
Um, it's just aggressive cuddling.
Um.
You told me that I'm not fun to cuddle.
And so I guess, let me, let me stop there.
I said, you're not fun to hug because it's
like I gave you a hug one time because
you were having a rough day and you're
like, you are not a fun person to hug.
I feel bad for your wife.
Yes, that's what you said.
That's exactly what I said.
Like hugging a just rocks,
like there's no give.
That stayed with me.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, so I just think it
the wisdom word, it's just too, it,
it's, it's too, uh, weighted, right?
So it can be wise if it, it barring
if you have a menu and you can
choose things and you add price,
money, time, uh, the rest of your
lifestyle, um, yeah, it makes sense.
Like to choose good foods.
Now there's genuinely things
where people say, no, these
things are poisonous for you.
Right.
There's endocrine disruptors,
there's microplastics, there's, yeah.
Um, and so like you can just say, Hey,
I'm gonna stop wearing microplastics.
Right.
Uh, son-in-law's wearing
cotton shorts and like, amen.
It's become a fun joke, you
know, like, but they're like
receipts when you get a receipt.
Did you know those thermogenic paper?
Oh yeah.
They actually put warnings on 'em now
that like, it's an endocrine disruptor.
So, you know, I got rid of, um, you know,
the air fresheners in your car, same
thing as endocrine disruptors and stuff.
So they, there's, we are living in
an environment that's certainly kind
of toxic to us in a lot of ways.
And so, yeah, it makes sense to
acknowledge that and to do stuff, but
I just think we gotta be really careful
about how, like what are we aiming at?
Um, you're not gonna live forever.
Um, you know, these things
aren't moral categories.
Uh, they're basic things where you
might prefer one kind of shoe over
another because it's better for you.
Uh, but yeah, I don't think you need
to be doing research like big time.
Like just make good decision.
Like if you want to get into
it, fine, but Lemme say this,
I'll, here's a good one to say.
If you're researching.
Like the chemicals in things, and you
can't tell me what Romans is about.
Your priorities are messed up.
If you're a Christian and you can tell me
all about the properties of the endocrine
disruptors and X, Y, Z and you don't know
what the book of Romans is about, and I
say to you, what's Romans three about?
What's Romans about?
What's John about?
You don't know that.
I wanna be honest to you.
Um, you are making a terrible
investment of your time, first of all.
But as a Christian, the idea that you're
scrupulous about this thing would, would
be kind of affirming, oh, because I love
God so much, my body wanna be so great.
I'm like, if you did, you would certainly
know the word at the very least.
And they say, oh, I know the word.
I'm like, really?
You know the word, the way you
know about these chemicals?
And what I find is the folks that
are researching this stuff, perhaps
they're really in the word, but
usually that sort of scrupulosity in
these categories doesn't come with
somebody who's very heavy on this.
And I think that's a pretty
damning statement, right?
Because I mean.
If that's you, I'm not
being a mean to you.
Maybe this is God just saying to you, Hey,
you gotta check your motives a little bit.
So yeah.
Speaking of motives, do you
think it's more, do you think
it's more driven by fear or by
wisdom to eat healthy and stuff?
I think yeah, like the obsession
with like, if you're that
scrupulous about it, is it?
Yeah.
Is it is There's this weird built
in like, I wanna live forever.
Yeah.
I don't see, like, I
think people have that.
I think there's really a fear of death.
Mm-hmm.
That's again, as a Christian
Christ conquered death, like Right.
So that's, but I think there's just a
general anxiety and I think people are
bored and they want a cause and I think
they have anxiety about everything.
Thinking that, if I can, if
so here's the sort of, uh, the
gnostic kind of dream, right?
Is that okay?
Man, if I could just.
Feed my family.
And so, especially women, they're placed
under the stress all the time with like,
you better feed your kids the right stuff.
Oh, that has red dye.
This, there's a mm-hmm.
If you feed your kids the right
stuff, I mean, it starts right
when you're pregnant, right?
Take the right vitamins, feed
your kids the right stuff.
Make sure you have the
right, you know, family time.
Make sure you balance this how, make
sure you have the right real estate.
If you get all this right,
you're still gonna die.
And it's all gonna go away.
It all of it and it's gonna decay.
And so, and then you still see
super healthy people that die.
And so it's not to say, don't do anything,
it's just you're not in control and you
have to accept at a certain point, you're
a creature, you're not the creator.
Your days are exactly numbered.
So the real reason we have a skull
isn't because we named them Larry.
That's not the reason I like the
skulls, is that the religious
symbols, they're mento more.
It reminds us of our death,
which is a sign of wisdom.
It reminds you that your days are limited.
And so normally, um, what so much of
what we do, so much of the anxiety
and the problems are derivative of
the main problem, which is death.
And death affects everything.
It's the shadow of everything we do.
It's the reason why when you go on
vacation, you get sad when it's over.
It's the reason why these things
are happening is that death is the
main problem that we tend to ignore.
We forget, we try to ignore that
we're gonna die, which is why we're
always surprised when someone dies.
And it's the main thing that Christ
accomplishes in, in conquering.
And he defeats death for us.
Well, so for most of us, death
affects us in things like fomo,
fear of missing out, and anxiety.
Well, there's a, a great book,
remember, death by, I don't know,
Matt, something or another, not me.
Um, I wish I wrote the book.
And in it he talks about this idea.
But one of the premises is that
with, with death, it, it makes
us have this fear constantly.
Like dads, we talked
about this with the kids.
Man, if I'm working or if I do
this, what if I miss that game?
Or what if I miss this thing?
We're all stressed out constantly
about not missing these moments.
And there's this sense of like,
'cause they're going away and
they're precious and hold onto 'em.
And it's true.
But they're not just
ending like in the Bible.
The, the best ex example is that if you
knew that this was the end and the last
meal, you man, you gotta try to make sure
you don't eat too much of this or that.
'cause you wanna fit it all in.
Like when I go to the, uh,
Brazilian steakhouses, right,
you don't wanna have any carbs.
You wanna save all of
the room for the meat.
Because you, this is your last chance.
But if you just found out that
you're going this amazing meal, and
this is just the appetizer, right?
And so that's kinda the whole point
of Jesus in this first miracle
of, of turning water into wine.
He's like, this is just the appetizer.
The best wine is still to be, to come.
Like this.
Life is an appetizer.
And so if you miss a little bit, if you,
if I don't make it to the bacon wrap
shrimp, uh, you know, the main course
is gonna be coming and it's awesome.
That's what I'm here for.
And so that's still to come.
And so for a lot of Christians we're like,
I gotta get this right and that, right?
I don't wanna miss out on this.
I don't.
It, it is, again, it's
antithetical to the Bible.
The, the, the promises of God are
to give us joy to rest in him.
So we're not afraid of death.
And yeah, there's unhealthiness and yeah,
you might die, but you're gonna be, if
you're a Christian, when you die, you're
instantly with the Lord and it's awesome
and you're gonna have a, a glorified body.
So remember the same way I wanna push
back against people trying to manufacture
Christ's kingdom here on earth.
Christ is coming to bring his kingdom.
It's gonna be perfect.
It's the same thing that
happens with people's health.
You're trying to manufacture
a glorified body.
Well, Christ is gonna, you
already have one waiting for you.
So stop trying to manufacture,
like, that's good.
I'm starting to preach, gonna stop.
But that's no go.
Yeah, that's the basic issue.
I don't know what motivates
people ultimately.
I think there's all sorts.
It's the same thing that motivates
us to do a million things.
Like, you know, the, there's
people that are experts on.
Uh, like what motivates someone to, to,
you know, go to Pokemon conventions?
Mm-hmm.
Or what motivates someone to do,
you know, does, do you think it,
you know, you're a cigar smoker.
Yeah.
I know People take issue with that.
Do you think that steals from like,
I love the appetizer 'cause like I
think you, you can have a McDonald's
cheeseburger to the glory of God.
Absolutely.
And so you can have a
cigar to the glory of God.
Do you think people in like pushing
crunchy Christianity, Christianity
on people removes their ability
to have glory in all things?
Yeah, and it's also stupid because, let me
just remind ourselves like people like we,
we don't have all the facts all the time.
So first of all, nutritional things,
it's not that we can't know things.
You can know a lot of things.
Like if you talk to somebody on
Survivor, someone's starving, a
McDonald's cheeseburger is a net good.
They need the calories, they need the
fat, they need the nutrition in it.
And, and so we're focused on, because
we're a fat culture that's overeating
on the things that are bad for us.
But in general, we forget
that food is, is, it's.
It's not just bad or good, right?
Um, it's not like this is bad food.
This is good food.
All food gives us calories and nutrition.
If you're starving, you need that.
If you're in a calorie deficit,
you need the nutrition.
So I'm like, what about the trans fats?
I'm like, if you're starving, it's
more healthy to have food than not.
And so, for example, um, even when I
was rowing, like sometimes like if you
looked at like, uh, protein bars, you
know, Snickers, they put one in there
just for fun in one of the studies.
And it was like way up there,
like top, I don't know, three
or something of, in other words,
like what we think we need now.
We, I think we're more
educated somewhat in society.
Like there's more access to information,
but it's still so confusing.
We know, um, you know, there's, there's
so many different ways and there's
always quacks that are making money.
Uh, you know, like, oh well if
your blood type eating, that
was a thing a few years ago.
And then I, I'm a big fan of try
out whatever you want, but try to
remind yourself what your goals are.
If your goals are, I wanna do this 'cause
it's better, that's not a good goal.
Like the goal needs to be, I wanna
lose some weight, or I want to get
buffer, or I want to get leaner.
But then you still have to ask yourself
what's what that's worth, right?
If you have to be the person that
wants, if you're not a bodybuilder and
you're like, I'm not gonna have that.
Go to my birthday, eat the
birthday cake with my kid.
You know, like, what's your problem?
Like, there's something, it's,
it's outta balance again.
And so, um, and most, a lot of
people's dreams are outta balance.
Like you say you wanna do this
stuff, but you're not gonna
do the workouts that you need.
You're not gonna plan
your life to do this.
And so, um, making good
decisions is boring.
It really is.
And nobody wants to see it.
And there's no group called the
Making Good Decisions group, right?
Like the, the neck tattoo that says
Make reasonable choices, you know?
Um, that's not exciting.
So it has to be, instead of make
reasonable decisions about nutrition,
it's the system is out to oppress us.
And so, again, I know
the bread lobby and the,
you know, I get it.
It's just.
I am talking about nutrition.
I just love your Ill time cough.
I know, I just, I have a,
I'm, I'm obviously like my
eyes are watering my ears.
There must be an endocrine
disruptor in here probably.
Um, we should cast it out.
I have a, some of my favorite times during
COVID was watching you lose your mind
on Tuesday nights talking about civics.
Yeah.
And it, I don't even remember what
you said, but if you wanna go back
to the Bravos Road Church website in
bravos.com 20, mid 2020 to 2021 and
watch the Tuesday night, the 2022 too.
Yeah.
Matt is losing his mind
talking about vaccine mandates.
So with that said, I know in our
church we, there's so many, we
have organic growth everywhere.
There's just a million
babies all the time.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But this vaccine issue is huge.
I, and I hear this, you know, if
anything is wrong with a child.
There's just instant whispers of ah,
it's 'cause they got the vaccine.
So with that said, our vaccine's a wisdom
issue, freedom issue or a sin issue.
And where we, where do we place that?
My advice, if you're a Christian,
lemme just give you this when it comes
to food, vaccines, all that, this
is my best advice I can give you.
Enjoy having strong convictions,
like enjoy the freedom to
decide you like things.
When it comes to making those convictions
moral, where you're saying that
people ought and should to do them.
Like if someone's having a baby
and they're not, they didn't ask
your opinion, shut your mouth.
They like give them respect
to make their own decisions.
They're not asking you.
Like, in other words, people are very
opinionated and you sound stupid.
And here's the thing, a lot of people
were speaking that way during COVID
about things, and I don't, I haven't
got any apologies from anyone that
said the stupid things they said.
So don't be that person.
The Bible says, be quick
to hear, slow to speak.
And you know, James talks about the
tongue being a, the words we say
matter and the, and when people jump
from one extreme to the next, like,
and we, we copy people on the media
that do this, they say extreme things
the next year they say the opposite.
Um, don't be like that.
Right?
So be more, more.
Reasonable when you speak.
So if you don't want to get
vaccines, don't get 'em.
That's great.
It is a totally noble, virtuous thing.
And do your research and
you're like, I did my research.
It's great.
Awesome.
And you wanna tell people, 'cause
they asked you, they said, you
know what, you seem really awesome.
Tell me about your vac.
Okay, great.
But that's not it.
That's not usually what happens.
It's not, um, it's, it's the person like,
Hey, make sure you do X, Y, or Z. And
I'm like, well, they didn't ask you that.
And so God lets us have kids.
God lets us, you know, raise them.
He lets us have bodies.
He gives us freedom to do stuff.
We want to be good stewards of it.
But this idea that, well,
you're doing it wrong.
And I'm like, if I can point
to you a bunch of people that
did it right, they still died.
Would you shut up?
Hmm.
Because it's, you're oppressing people.
It's, it's similar to when Paul says
to Timothy, not, don't get caught up in
genealogies and endless dis dissensions.
It's, it's not beneficial.
So, again, I wanna go back to it.
If you're spending your time being a
vaccine crusader, I wonder how many people
you share the gospel with that week?
I wonder how many people
you read the Bible.
So, again, it's not that you can't have
convictions, it's that they're, it's the
centrality of those convictions to your
identity in your life that demonstrates
that you're way out on a limb.
And someone would argue the
people that wanna argue with me
right away and say like, yes, but
there's two logics for it, right?
The first one is, who
gets to enforce stuff?
So like, there's a government logic
when we say things should be illegal.
And like this ca this came
about, I mentioned the soda ban.
I always ta use it as an example.
But in back in, I don't know, 2018
or 17, they were talking about
maybe doing a, a ban on soda cups
in New York that were larger than
16 ounces or something like that.
And I use this as an example.
In one of our discussions, we
were talking about it and the.
The same thing kept happening.
The argument isn't, I would
say, this is a stupid argument.
We shouldn't ban soda cups.
And the next statement would
be, yeah, but soda is bad for
you and diabetes and sugar.
And I'm like, time out.
What does that have to do with
whether the government has the right
to enforce how much soda you drink?
The moment we say that they do, um,
you've given them the ability to en
enforce that you can have that much.
So that's what the, the debate is about.
The healthiness, the debate is about
your freedom and if the government
has the ability to enforce that.
And so the fact that we would move
to, Hey, should the government be
able to ban sodas and we move to
whether it's healthy or not, well
that is changing the question.
Who cares if it's healthy?
The government doesn't have the right
to tell you what you're gonna do.
Um, and that, that kind of
comes in with some nutrition.
'cause people say, well, hey, this
is bad for you or Good for you.
I'm a little bit more a, a big fan of.
The government regulating such that people
can't lie to you in their advertising.
They have to be honest about things.
Um, if someone's selling you
something that's a known poison, it
needs to be kind of acknowledged.
Like, if it's not food, we
shouldn't label it as food.
Um, and I get it.
I mean, like, I would like to see
our food healthier and I would like
to see not having microplastics and
endocrine disruptors in everything.
I would, you know, I'd love to
see, um, men not having lower and
lower testosterone every year.
And, and so there's something wrong.
Um, but I, I guess I just,
the conspiracy game is just
too, um, it's a waste of time.
It's just a waste of time.
I, I, I really, back in the day,
people lived and they ate bread
all the time, and that's okay.
Right.
And there's no one's gluten allergies and
I don't know, if you go to the Africa,
nobody's lactose intolerant, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So we, we create a lot of problems.
Yeah.
What would you say to someone
who is trying to follow, like.
Israel's food laws.
You know, I've heard before the,
not from anyone in our midst,
but, uh, like a Christian.
Yeah.
Like, like, well, like God
made Adam and Eve vegetarian.
I feel cl like this vegetarian
is closer to God's design.
Yeah.
If you say that you're, um, if you wanna
be a vegetarian 'cause you like it, great.
If you wanna do it because you
find health reasons that you
think it's good for you, fine.
If you say we should someone, again,
someone ought to do it or should
do it because it might make you
healthy, even then I'm like, okay,
I think you're wrong now I disagree.
But if you say God wants us
to do it, you're, you're wrong
and you need to be quiet.
That is a dangerous thing.
You're putting upon someone a burden.
The Bible doesn't put upon them.
Um, not only that, um, you know, God told
Peter, rise, kill and eat after the flood.
God told Noah right after he gets
off the ark to that to eat animals.
And so the argument, well, God
had, so here's how I would say if
someone said to me, you know, Adam
and Eve ate ve ate vegetables.
I'm like, cool.
So you like the Bible.
They say, yeah, I like the Bible.
I'm like, great.
So then after the flood when God told Noah
to eat, animals we're after the flood.
So are you gonna eat animals now?
Well, no.
'cause Adam and Eve, I'm like,
that doesn't, so just stop
pretending you care about the Bible.
Mm-hmm.
If you're gonna pick and choose, like
there's a, an an arc, a storyline.
And so Anakin Skywalker isn't, oh,
you know, later he is Darth Vader.
So you can't be like, I like
little Anakin like that.
The arc in the story is
what we're having to say.
So in the beginning, yes,
God says, vegetarian's great.
And then after the flood,
make sure you eat animals.
And so we're after the flood.
And then if you're in Ju Judaism
and you're following the, the
kosher food laws, I get it.
But then you have Peter being told in
acts before Cornelius, Hey Peter, all
these foods are, are good to eat now.
So if you're a Christian and you're
saying, Hey, I wanna follow Jewish
food laws, again, you, it just, some
things you can just be wrong about.
And that's something
that you're wrong about.
Like vehemently you are incorrect
about what the way you're reading
the Bible in that subject.
So if you just want to eat that way.
Have fun.
Do not give it any sort of
divine, um, authenticity.
Yeah.
What, so with that said, what do, what
do you think of like the Daniel diet
and the churches, churches that go
on these, like, all right, so I think
anyone, it's like boomers that do that.
Um, the Daniel Diet.
Okay.
First of all, uh, like Ezekiel Bread.
Yeah, exactly.
EI want Ezekiel bread.
Eel bread.
Yep.
Yep, yep.
Well,
like his Ezekiel bread like,
is so funny about this.
It's what, what is it?
What, why do they call it Ezekiel bread?
It's like healthy.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
Well, in the book of e Ezekiel,
God's like, make your food over hu
human dung to like teach about the,
make your bread over human dung.
He is like, well, no.
Can I at least use animal dung?
He is like, okay.
Like, I don't know why you'd name your
bread after bread that was supposed
to be cooked over human feces.
Like, doesn't sound like
a good name for bread.
The Daniel Diet was so funny.
Here's the premise of the Daniel
Diet, Shadrach Mach and a minute ago,
uh, were taken into slavery, right?
And they didn't want to eat the non-kosher
food of the, you know, the Babylonians.
And so what happens is they said,
well, can we just eat vegetables?
And here's the key,
here's the miracle of it.
They ate vegetables and they got fatter.
That's the miracle.
They, they didn't wanna look
like skinny refugees, and so they
looked like more plump and awesome.
So if you're being honest to the Daniel
Diet, the argument is, Hey, you can
eat vegetables and get fatter too.
I don't think that's what
most people are doing.
So again, as people borrowing
biblical terms to give credibility
to their ideas, that God's somehow
in it as if there's a secret diet
that's gonna help you get healthier.
Again, it's just trying to se
separate you from your money and
your time and your intelligence.
It's just not wise.
You can make good decisions.
You can do these things without
all the, with dress up the
cosplay that you're somehow holy.
And keep in mind, this is an ancient
heresy, is the way we use food
and this and that to like, make
us wiser, better, what have you.
Um, the bible 100% is overtly freeing us
from that, that sort of, uh, oppression.
And so.
Being.
Now, let me caveat all this.
Being healthy is awesome.
It's great to be healthy, but how
you get healthy for people is not
a zero sum game for many people.
They just need to move more.
They need to like, they need
to start lifting weights.
They need to get a coach.
Um, they need to eat less and move more.
Um, most people, I'll give
you my advice if you want it.
Like it's, it's from the Lord.
Do you want to hear some advice?
Go for it.
Here's my advice.
So all the nutrition people can disagree.
I think that if you wanna be fit and
healthy when it comes to diet, that
what I like to do is I like to pay
attention to my general calories.
And the only macro nutrient I tend
to want to look at is my protein.
Those are the two big things I like.
How much protein am I getting and
how much calories am I getting?
That's it.
If I have too many calories,
I'm gonna get fatter.
If I have too little protein,
I'm gonna lose muscle.
Those are two things I care about,
and the rest of it I just eat.
So that seems to be a good way to do that.
Um, you can get more complicated than
that, but that's a really easy, those
are, those are really a easy basic thing.
Um, I'm not, no one's asking me that, but,
um, and there's, you can get all complex,
but it, it, it rules people's lives.
I can do all those things and still
read the Bible all the time and still,
you know, pray and focus on the Lord.
I just, you didn't, you don't need
to have a nutrition degree mm-hmm.
To be able to eat.
Yeah.
How'd you, I had a missionary.
One say that, you know, gluttony
is the overlooked sin of the West.
How would you, would you agree with that?
Like, now are we supposed to, you know, I
think you've said before in sermons, like
the weightiness of sin, we have all these
organizations for pornography, but no
one's like, no one has the slander club.
Like let's all help people with slander.
Yeah.
Um, well, okay, so there's two things.
One, we had, there's a big cultural
movement we've just come through on
the left, which was happening in the
transgender movement, which is also
the body positivity movement, right?
So it was like the dove soap and the,
and the idea was to show people kind
of outta shape and their normal bodies.
And there's, there's a positive to
that because there are unrealistic
standards in of beauty and it can be
unhealthy 'cause it makes people unhappy.
But I'm kind of, of a mind that
I still wanna see beautiful
people in advertisements on tv.
I don't, that's the whole point that.
You just don't have
average Joes on the tv.
Um, but we live in a culture, you're
right, where our food and our habit and
our lifestyles generally make us fatter.
And people have all sorts
of hormonal issues and that
make it hard to be in shape.
I just, there are societal reasons.
There are big reasons to get in
shape, you have to do it on purpose.
Like nobody worked out
back in the olden days.
It wasn't until after like essentially
like the enlightenment that people
would start working out as a thing.
Like it just you people,
what do you mean work out?
You gotta lift weights.
Like you just did manual labor and
so you might work out if you're an
athlete in a, in something, but it's, it
wasn't, you know, just to be in shape.
So I think in general now gluttony and
these sense, we can sometimes, yeah, it's,
it's un it's super unhealthy to be fat.
Like it's super unhealthy to be fat.
And we live in a culture where
it's really, really easy to be fat.
Like our homeless people
are fat, you know?
And, and if you stop and
think about that, that's like.
Kind of the issue when you look at
real poverty in the third world,
it's not, no one's overweight.
Um, so we have people that are
overweight, we have people that
are dealing with that, and that's
really, really bad for you, right?
To be overweight.
Um, I'm really hesitant
to make it a sin category.
I just, I think we get out of our limb.
I think self-control is a
category in the Bible, but
that's true for a lot of things.
Um, I don't think glutton has even
mentioned directly anywhere in the Bible.
So I just, it's kind of comes from
the Catholic seven deadly sin idea.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I don't, I just think
leave fat people alone and just.
But don't promote them
as beautiful either.
Like, it's not something we want.
Does it make sense?
Like we can, if something's
beautiful, it's called beautiful
and being overweight, beauty
standards change over time.
But like, if you're overweight, you
should fix it because it's bad for you.
But you don't have to fix it.
You can live it up and be cool with it.
Just, you know, what's it like
Lizzo is not the same as like a
Victoria's Secret model or something.
Not that you should be like,
but you know what I'm saying?
Like there's mm-hmm.
There's categories here, like, and so
we gotta be careful that we're, we're
like it constantly during this whole time.
Like a bearded man at a beauty contest.
You know, the whole idea is
to make you ignore reality.
Objective reality is a thing.
And so being outta shape, you
know, in our culture is so normal.
Um, so there's a sense because you kind
of have to embrace like your normal, like
most people are not as lean as they say.
Most people that are in the movies and on
the TVs are taking like actual performance
enhancing drugs for that one scene.
And, you know, when they were getting
outta bed with their shirt off or
something like that guy did weights
right before that scene, got pumped,
had good lighting, you know, did
a diet and a cut for that scene.
And then you think to yourself, why
don't I look like that when I get it?
You know?
Um, so yeah.
What would you, how would you
respond to someone who, um, is
currently like feeling self-righteous
about the food that they eat?
Like what would Yeah, that's, that's,
that's kind of what I've been addressing.
Like self-righteousness is terrible.
Like if you're self-righteous about
anything, uh, you're, you need to repent.
You're an unrepentant sin.
Like that's the, that's the main person
the parable Jesus gives about coming to
save, you know, the, the, the one versus
the nine nine quote unquote righteous
people that think they need no repentance.
Like if you're the, if that's you,
you're in a dangerous, dangerous zone.
Um, if you eat cer, like it's easy to
feel satisfaction to like conquer a goal.
Amen.
I love that confidence comes from knowing
that I set a goal and I like reached it.
I think that's great too.
Um, but anybody that's.
Done that also knows that it's
hard and helping someone take the
first steps if they want, is great.
And there's a process and sometimes
you just aren't ready to do that.
You know, like you have, you're just
not ready to really make a change.
And so you, you gotta be patient
with people during that time as well.
So I think self-righteous people in,
in every category, um, are, are in sin.
So I guess that's the best way to say it.
So if it's about food in particular, I
think not only is it about, not only is it
sinful, it's also super ugly and annoying.
Like, I don't know,
because you're not, yeah.
Anyways.
No, you can put it, beauty
is vain, it's fleeting.
You're gonna be saggy
and ugly at some point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, why do you think this topic
creates like this specifically?
There's just so much judgment
and animosity amongst Christians.
Yeah.
Well, there can be judgment
and animosity on every subject.
Particular there is, but
this one is very particular.
Yeah, so much so that there's
people in our church that they, they
were like, don't do that podcast.
You're gonna get murdered.
Well, I, anyone that disagrees
with me, come talk to me.
I like what I'm saying is so much
like, if you think, if someone
comes to me like, oh, no, no, no.
You gotta understand the
lobby of this is so big.
I'm like, just take your conspiratorial
thinking and just be quiet about it.
Please, I beg you as your pastor, if
you're at our church and as your pastor,
if you come to me about this, I'm
gonna ask you about your Bible reading.
Mm. That's my, that's my first statement.
Like, and there's like a
real come to Jesus moment.
Like, God knows what you, you're
accountable for what you hear.
Like, let's, let's,
let's talk serious here.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you, if you, if you're serious about
all this and you're not serious about
the word, you're not a serious person.
That's, that's, that's.
Y you know, I dunno what else to say.
And like the divisive,
the, the divisiveness.
The divisiveness, uh, sound
sounds smart and say divisive.
Uh,
there's a lot of reasons.
I think that our self-image and the, the
sort of, the, the things we're aiming
at, I think for most people's salvation,
so to speak, is to be this, the be the
person they envision themselves to be.
Um, and so the good life, the, the, the
story of the good life we tell is when
we're in shape and fit and going here
and sleeping well and spending time with
the family, listen, we're all desiring.
That's heaven.
And there's a glorified body awaiting us.
And so what we're arguing when
we argue about these things is
like miniature little worldviews.
And it's, it's all sort of idolatrous.
Um.
Uh, it, like, there's, there's
a lot like the image of God.
We are image bearers of
God, and so we, it matters.
We care how we look.
Mm-hmm.
Like we care how people look.
And so it gets twisted though, right?
So instead of seeing the beauty in
things, we either ignore reality or
we just deify everything, you know?
And so I think this is just a
category where we're visual creatures.
We're image bearers.
There's a lot at stake.
It does matter, um, that we look good, but
we're fallen creatures who are decaying
because of the fall, because of Adam.
And so we basically, it's just fig
leaves and we're essentially arguing
about who has a better fig leaf and.
The debate is, well, my fig leaf
is better than your fig leaf.
And Christ like, God,
God had to sit killed.
The first death in the Bible is
God killing an animal to cover
Adam and his private parts.
And the reason that was so
significant was because they knew
every baby born was gonna be born,
separated from God because of them.
And so that their shame
was in those parts.
And so God killed an animal.
And so all of this body po
a body debate and stuff is
literally just their fig leaves.
We're just trying to deny
the decay that we see.
We're trying to deny, well,
this will dress us up.
It's the same with fashion.
Like there's good things and it
just gets overweighted mm-hmm.
To a certain way.
And it's all just fig leaf covered.
It's where words like righteousness,
that's where words like
systems, they're all fig leafs.
I'm like this because the system,
I'm like this because it's, oh, if
I wore this fig leaf, I'd be better.
Um, again, the answer is put it all
aside for just a moment, just put
it all aside and get into this book.
And make this the central thing.
Get to know this God.
Well, and if you're a Christian
and you're focused on those
things, it's consuming your time.
Again, I keep saying it, get back to this.
You're missing something,
something's way off.
And what, when you put everything tuned up
in the right place, those things can still
be fine, but they'll be weighted properly.
I think it was GK Chesterson who said, you
know, you don't need the Bible to know how
long a snake is like to measure a snake.
But you do need to know the Bible to
know whether to worship it or kill it.
Like how to treat it like you
don't need the Bible to know
if something's nutritious.
But you need to know the Bible to know how
important that needs to be in your life.
And it sounds like a lot of this is
people that are completely like a leaf
tossed to and fro, because this isn't
central, and I'm just saying this to you
no matter what side of the, the aisle
you want or these things, if you're,
if anyone's super strongly offended
one way or another by what I'm saying.
I guarantee this isn't the center.
I'm just being honest.
That's straight up.
That's well said.
That would be a great place to end it.
But I have, oh no, two more questions.
Um, involving mere membership
in the community table.
And so Ashanti will now bring the
book to the front of the podcast.
Yes.
Membership.
We haven't plugged it at all, uh,
but both sides of the communion line.
Um, are churches capitulating
to this when they say.
F We have gluten-free wafers
in sugar, in sugar free juice.
And on does, does anyone say this?
Yes, 100%.
Okay.
We have, we have had people in our,
and, and on the other side, we have
had people, hopefully not now, but
have come through our church that's,
that have said, I don't take communion
because it's, it's not sugar free juice.
So what, what would you say to the
person who's like, I, I ha I can't have a
gluten wafer and I need sugar free juice.
And do you think a church is
capitulating to, well, isn't,
aren't all wafers gluten-free?
I, by definition it's noted.
We, we used a triscuit cracker, so
no, but no, but, but in general,
everyth thing should be glu.
It's unleavened.
I in general, yes, but there's
churches that use like saltines
and they shouldn't do that.
So the, the, the, but so we'll, we'll
stick to the juice, the sugar, free juice.
Someone who doesn't wanna have sugar,
I think it should be alcoholic wine.
Yeah.
I love that you just, lemme
just Trump card this right now.
Yeah.
Like I just, that's what, whatever.
Okay.
Regardless, is a church
capitulating a crunchy Christianity?
Yes.
It's, it's the same stuff as
before, but here's the problem.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
But I, I would say this, there's
a funny thing that's happened.
Our church is relatively large-ish, right?
So we're, I'd say, mm-hmm Like at this
stage of this filming, we're between
like six and 700 on a Sunday let's say.
Right?
Sure.
And I didn't know this because this
is the only church I've ever really
served in, you know, or been in.
So this is just my church.
And we'll always have people come out
and for years, for years and years,
be like, this is a really fit church.
Now this is an interesting
dynamic 'cause I wouldn't see it.
Mm-hmm.
But I've been told that,
and it's a funny thing.
I'm not advertising our church
saying you should come here
'cause it's beautiful people.
But we just happen.
Everyone's in good shape.
There's a lot of healthiness,
there's people of all shapes
and sizes, ages, and everything.
But my point is, if you're, if you're,
the church is like, you gotta eat, we're
having this kind of this to attract you.
I'm like, one of the things that's
interesting about seeing so many people
is you'll see some people that are really
scrupulous about stuff, but some people
that are eating hamburgers, like I bet
when I was a personal trainer, I used
to love, I mean, I loved eating donuts.
That's my favorite food.
Going into the Olympic training,
I had four donuts a day, every
day for four years straight.
And I was the lowest body fat.
I was the lowest.
I liked, I loved it.
And it was just nutritionally I
was not getting enough calories.
I needed it.
I liked it.
I could have it.
Um, if somebody's so concerned like
that, you're playing into a really
unhealthy obsession, that's all.
Could you have those things?
Could a pastor say, Hey, we have the
option to order sugar free or not?
All right, fine.
But if you're advertising it,
if, if someone asks you about it
and you say it's sugar free, they
say, Hey, I can't have sugar.
Then maybe you have some
for that person, I guess.
But like the idea that we put
these things front and center.
It's basically like virtue signaling
that we're so health conscious.
And so I'm like, we're health conscious,
but not, we don't virtue signal it.
Does that make sense?
I don't know.
It just, I just think it's stupid.
I think it's so, so ridiculous part.
Sorry if that, I just, I can't
believe no one does that.
They do that.
Yeah.
I can't believe that that, that's okay.
You don't have to believe it.
Uh, anything else on this topic?
Are they like, are they like hipsters?
Like who does that?
Hipster churches do it.
Oh dear.
Yeah, for sure.
Hipsters do everything.
Um, all right.
I guess, man, I'm just
living in a cave over here.
I have no idea about that.
That's crazy.
Why are people so weird?
Can't she just, can't she just be normal?
Like it's just annoying.
Like, I always tell my kids this a
great, don't be the person that's voted
off on Survivor 'cause you're annoying.
You know, like, that's annoying.
That's great.
Don't you think that's annoying?
That's you.
Like, that's good advice.
You're the guy like, yep.
It's not very godly
sounding advice, is it?
Like, no, I used to tell my kids this.
I'm like, which one of you in
the room would get voted outta
the room right now in Survivor?
I'm like, that's who the problem is.
I'm like, oh man.
That's great.
That's good.
Well, Matt, thanks for your
thoughts on crunchy Christianity.
If you have more questions on this
topic, go do a lot of words podcast.com.
Click on the, I have a question
button, answer a question, whatever
the button is, it's big and blue.
Click on that, send in your questions.
We're gonna end with, uh, one more
question that was sent in and it, it's
a good one from Levi s He writes, uh,
what are your thoughts on two Christians
feeling called by God to marry, but
they're, they do so despite not having
the blessing of the bride's parents.
Lemme just pull this grenade and chuck it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, let's, all right.
Two Christians want to get married.
Two Christians wanna get married.
They are both Christians.
They're both Christians.
The, the man goes to the wife's
parents and he says, Hey, I
wanna marry your daughter.
Dad says, no.
What should he do?
All right.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Way to go.
Great question.
Um, when I saw that I was tickled.
I was like, oh, man, I love, all
right, so here's a, there's a couple
things we could do to talk about this.
First of all, let's get, let's get
some brute facts outta the way.
The basic premise of asking a,
a dad for the hand of the bride
isn't, isn't just a cultural nicety.
The idea was in ancient 'cause.
Weddings are an inherited, an
inherited institution from God,
and in that inherited institution,
the, the Bible says a few things
about husbands and wives, right?
The, the husband is the
head of the wife, right?
Evens Christ is the head of the church.
But before that, the fathers are
the head of the household, right?
There's the, there's the
idea here, so, mm-hmm.
That's why when a man.
Gets married, the father of
the bride gives, walks her down
the island, gives her away.
That's why ostensibly, the last
name changes from the dad's name
to the new husband's last name.
It's now joining this new family.
And so in the Old Testament, in
particular, in, in the early first
century, if you were a bride,
it's not like you just had jobs,
you lived past a certain age.
You were usually married off
and you were under the father.
So you didn't, there wasn't like, and
if you were gonna get married in that
environment, you'd have to run away.
You know, you, the, the dad was
the protector provider, the legal
representative of his daughter
until she was married, essentially.
Mm.
And so.
Getting the blessing of the father
wasn't just like a formality,
it was a necessity essentially.
'cause he was the one that
was over her in that way.
Um, in our culture, what happens is
people have delayed marriage so long
that I guess I'd say a few things.
How old is the, the couple, like if
the woman is in her mid twenties,
30, even 40, and the hus, the
father's not giving the blessing and
the person's an actual Christian.
Um, it might be the problem of the parent.
I think having a pastor in
churches help out in that moment
might help you have some wisdom.
Um, in general, we ought to
try to respect our parents.
We ought to try to, um, but sometimes
what if the parents aren't Christian?
What if the parents are being sinful?
What if it's, it's never just a
it, this or that type of thing?
We ought to do the best we can within
reason to live peaceably with one another.
And that means, in general, we would
like the blessing, but it's not,
if the person's not like 18 years
old living under their parents'
roof, it's not as simple as just.
Yes or no?
Like parents have a duty to like
support their child and at a certain
point when that child is now an adult
living on their own, um, well that
like approval is a little more of a
formality and you want it, it's a good
thing, but maybe they're not giving it
'cause maybe the parents are in sin.
Maybe the parents are crazy.
So in that case, if your pastor is saying
it's good if the people around you like
it and then the parents aren't, usually
the parents can talk to the pastor.
It can help.
But I'll say this,
sometimes you're diluted.
Sometimes the pastor's like,
Hey, I'm not sure about this.
Your friends aren't saying I'm sure about
it, and the dad's not sure about it.
You're like, we wanna do it anyways.
Well, everybody says you shouldn't.
So that's not wise either.
So I think it's just, like we said
before, it's one factor among many.
In an ideal world, you
get the approval first.
If they're not giving approval,
there's probably a reason
you should know what it is.
And it's not just they've
got it out for me.
Sometimes it's a reasonable thing to
say, Hey, they don't want it because
they want the husband to have a job, or
they want the husband to do this or that.
Well then that's a reasonable thing.
And so you say, okay, well here's.
Here's what we're doing.
You know, what, what would this be?
But sometimes they're unreasonable.
And so, I don't know, you know,
like, I think it's better than
living in sin to be married.
I think there's a scale that that
can change during circumstances.
And so my answer is, I guess
the circumstances dictate that.
That was a lot of words on that question.
That's best I got, I mean, like, yeah.
Think good.
No, I mean, 'cause sometimes you
have a parent that's not a believer
saying No for good reason or, yeah.
Yes, very true.
Yeah, that does happen quite a bit.
Uh, thanks Matt.
I'll save the other questions
for next week, but I do want
to get to, does it slap?
Oh yeah.
And so that seems to be,
this is this high priority.
Yes.
Um, we, yeah.
We had a question about, I
actually used the word slap
the other day because of you.
Yeah.
And I was almost disappointed in myself.
I was like, that slaps.
And I'm like, what the, I'm
trying to start a movement.
Yeah.
And um, all right.
It's slowly working.
All right.
The smell of gasoline.
I think it slaps.
I love it.
Yeah, I love it too.
Yeah.
This is, this is a continued
list from Big Brad, by the way.
Oh, this is, he had so many, okay.
The smell of guessing.
I love that.
Um, I already know your answer
to this next one, Speedos.
I love Speedos.
Yeah.
I wore Speedos for year.
I was a white pole player.
I, although, yeah, I, I kind of
Chauncey do not ai our image of me
and man Speedos don't, don't do it.
Um, Speedos are great.
I just think they're so,
they're so European and silver.
They're very European at the same time.
I just think if girls wear bikinis,
and I don't, I don't know, I think
Speedos are, uh, I think short
shorts for men for like swimming are
better like than the long baggy ones.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
But if you're, if for sports.
If for sports, I get it.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm Antis Speedo now.
Unless you're Tom Selleck.
If you're Tom Selleck, you
can do the short shorts.
That's the way you should do it.
Yeah.
No, I mean, that's the proper
length of shorts for men.
If the men were to wear shorts,
but they shouldn't wear shorts,
we said, all right, slaps.
If you're Tom Selleck.
Potential slap if you're not.
Well, no.
Tom can wear Speedos either.
Oh, he's gotta be like 80 now.
I don't, I think athletes that
are doing sports that require
Speedos can wear Speedos.
But I think everyone else,
you're European, and that's
kind of a weird thing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, remember we were playing volleyball
and that one Italian guy comes up
in the Speedo to play volleyball
with us, and it's very awkward.
Oh, I remember that very vividly.
Yeah.
Or if you're a bodybuilder
and there you're posing trunk.
Uh, and then kind of tying into that,
uh, well, we talked about earlier,
uh, zis or other nicotine pouches.
That's, you're like, why
wouldn't you just have a cigar?
So does, yeah.
I don't do nicotine pouches.
Mm-hmm.
I don't, but do they slap?
I don't know.
I bet they do.
I bet they slap that.
But that's the problem.
Like, yeah, that's fine.
Nicotine has some really great
benefits if you wanna talk about it.
That they're, they're actually, yeah.
Does that sound crunchy and crazy?
No, not at all.
I was given, I cannot tell the cops,
I don't wanna go down on this RO road.
No, but I mean, I'm a, like,
I smoke a lot of cigars.
I love them.
I, I was, and the people that don't.
Okay.
The people that are against me smoking
cigars, I'm probably healthier than them.
Is that a rude thing to say?
No, that's, that's a true thing.
So I'm like, it's, it's, I don't
wanna get into big assessment.
My zen story is pretty funny,
but I don't, what is it?
A zen story.
My zen story is I had never had one
and it's this little pouch, right?
It's a little pouch.
And I, I know, I know
the benefits of nicotine.
I understand it.
It's similar to a cup of coffee
and I in, for my stomach, I did not
want an afternoon cup of coffee.
And after Sunday I was kind
of dragging and I'm like, I
gotta go into my small group.
It's 'cause your hormones.
So I'm sitting
microplastics, microplastics.
So I'm at the connect desk and
another small group leader in
our church who I know has them.
He's like, I have a Zi.
It's like a low powered Zi.
I was like, all right.
And so in my, I was like, why?
I was like, it's, it's coffee.
I'll just take it.
And so I'm talking to this couple, I
just, the room just starts spitting.
And so I was like, I'm sorry,
I have to spit my gum out.
I just like threw it in the trash and
I was like flying till like 5:00 PM and
I was like, that sounds like it slaps.
But I don't know the, the people like it.
And I think that if you were into
it, you would do it all the time.
Yeah.
Big Brad.
Big zen guy.
That's why he asked that.
I think that it's probably, I wouldn't
recommend your first time to be in church.
I don't think that.
Yeah, I think stuff like that,
you have to have balance and
sense of like knowing Yes.
How to use stuff.
I was told it was low power.
I don't even wanna know
what the high power is.
Goodness gracious.
Yeah.
Uh, Matt, thanks for another episode
of, uh, does it slap, there's
only a few things we did well.
What should the people do?
Smash that subscribe button.
Mm-hmm.
Or you're in sin.
Just kidding.
No, you're not.
Exactly.
And they should also, yeah.
Mere membership.
Yep.
By this book.
Larry has nothing to add,
dad, but speaking, I think he
called ma speaking about that.
Uh, it's Larry, it's close.
It's the American version of Maury.
Uh, you mentioned remember death?
Uh, the Surprising Path to Living Hope.
It's by Matt McCullough.
Oh, yeah.
That's one of my favorite books.
That's why I got a giant
tattoo of a skull on my arm.
So that's a shout out to that book.
Matt, if you're listening,
uh, share a podcast.
Chauncey, anything to add?
I don't even know if, if the
guy's cool, keep shouting.
Oh, probably not.
Keep giving, uh, shout outs
to Shanti in the comments.
Uh, keep giving comments.
Yeah.
Send in your questions.
Send in your questions.
Hit the big blue button.
Buy books.
Buy a mug.
Buy a shirt.
Buy a hat.
Yeah.
Tell And the crunchy stuff.
If you wanna get all mad,
just don't get all mad at each
other in the comments, maybe.
Exactly.
Or do it if it makes us,
they should duke it out.
Don't, don't do that.
That's silly.
No.
What?
But it is the vaccines and the aliens are,
uh, we'll see you next
week after Easter, uh oh.
Come to Province Road Church.
This will be after Easter.
Oh, come the, I'm preaching the
week after Easter too, and then
I'm preaching the week after that.
Don't say that.
So come in two weeks.
Yeah.
Alright.
All right.
We'll see you.
Hey Matt.
You know what really slaps what
our subscribers, the people who
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