ADHD Nerds

ADHD Nerds Trailer Bonus Episode 13 Season 1

Mikah Sargent: Brain Scans and Technology

Mikah Sargent: Brain Scans and TechnologyMikah Sargent: Brain Scans and Technology

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This is episode 13. And today I'm talking with Mikah Sargent. Mikah is a podcaster, journalist, tech enthusiast, and dog enthusiast. You may know him from the TWiT network, where he hosts several podcasts, including iOS Today, Tech News Weekly, Hands-on Mac, and The Tech Guy with Leo Laporte. Or maybe you listen to another one of his podcasts. In true ADHD fashion, he hosts more podcasts than I can count. Mikah is definitely a fellow ADHD nerd, and today we're going to talk about his story with ADHD and how that has factored into his passion for all things tech.

Show Notes

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and get your free ADHD Strategy Guide:

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Guest:

Mikah Sargent

Sponsor:

Freedom

Links and show notes:

Creators & Guests

Host
Jesse J. Anderson
ADHD Jesse

What is ADHD Nerds?

ADHD Nerds is the podcast for Adults with ADHD to learn more about their unique brain through the stories of others. Learn tips and strategies for managing or hacking your ADHD brain and have some fun along the way.

ADHD Nerds is hosted by Jesse J. Anderson, an ADHD Creative with a passion for writing, teaching, and raising awareness about ADHD. In 2017, he was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 36, and has made it his mission to help others better understand what ADHD really is.

This podcast is a great place to learn more about Adult ADHD, whether you're officially diagnosed, self-diagnosed, stuck on a waiting list, or just want to know more about how your loved one's brain works.

Mikah Sargent: From that point
on then I had, uh, you know, one

of the beautiful powers of ADHD.

I know a lot of us just
love to learn new things.

And so I could really just devour
a bunch of information about

ADHD and, at that point go.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

All of these things are exactly who I am


Jesse J. Anderson: Hey,
my name is Jesse J.

Anderson, host of the ADHD Nerds podcast.

The show where we talk about living with
ADHD, and have some fun along the way.

This is episode 13.

And today I'm talking with Mikah Sargent.

Mikah is a podcaster, journalist,
tech enthusiast, and dog enthusiast.

You may know him from the TWiT network,
where he hosts several podcasts, including

iOS Today, Tech News Weekly, Hands-on
Mac, and The Tech Guy with Leo Laporte.

Or maybe you listen to
another one of his podcasts.

In true ADHD fashion, he hosts
more podcasts than I can count.

Mikah is definitely a fellow ADHD nerd,
and today we're going to talk about his

story with ADHD and how that has factored
into his passion for all things tech.

But first I want to thank
our sponsor, Freedom.

Freedom is the app and website
blocker used by over 2 million people

to reclaim focus and productivity.

Control those distractions
and focus on what matters.

Freedom works on Mac, Windows,
iOS, Android, and Chrome.

You can just schedule your focus
time to block distracting websites

and apps and get stuff done.

Just go to adhdnerds.com/freedom to
start your free trial, and use Freedom

to stay focused on what matters most.

Hey, Mikah.

It is great to have you here today.

How's it going?

Mikah Sargent: It is going well.

I'm so excited to finally,
uh, come on the show.

I, I remember whenever you were
talking about launching it and,

uh, I was pumped to see that there
was going to be a show like this,

uh, out there that's specifically
it's it's ADHD and nerds combined.

It's it's a great, it's a great concept.

Jesse J. Anderson: absolutely awesome.

Well, I'd love to start
with, uh, your story.

Like how, how did you first find out
or, you know, think you might have ADHD.

What did that look like?

Mikah Sargent: Yeah.

So I was in college and I,
I grew up very religious.

Right.

And one of the, the things with, uh,
the religion that I grew up with, uh,

sort of nondenom Christian, but sort of.

Taking many of the most extreme
aspects of the other denominations

of Christianity and sort of grouping
them into one thing, um, was that

mental health was not a real thing.

Mental health issues
were not a real thing.

And if you were ever experiencing anything
like that, uh, depression, anxiety,

Essentially, that was just the devil.

And so if you prayed and you, you
know, yes, God for help, then that

would be, uh, all you needed to do.

So growing up that way, I obviously
believed that for a long time.

Uh, and it wasn't until
I went to college that I.

Had the sort of space and time,
uh, to truly sort of solidify

my own beliefs surrounding that.

And, uh, I was struggling with what I
came to find out was depression, um, and

went to a doctor and, you know, talked
to them and got all that figured out.

Uh, and then later on,
I, uh, Got a new doctor.

And to this day, I just love this woman.

She was fantastic.

And, um, Dr.

Wong shout out to Dr.

Wong.

Um, I had talked to her about some
of the concerns that I was having

in, uh, in college and sort of.

In a very light way because I was
listening to a podcast, eh, um, with

one of my now dear friends and he was
on the podcast and he was talking about

how, uh, as an adult, he was diagnosed
with ADHD and it came about because

his two daughters who, uh, are both
on the autism spectrum, um, the, his

two daughters had, um, ASD and ADHD.

He had this realization, uh, in
going through the process for

them that he may have it as well.

He went to see a psychiatrist and, uh,
discovered that he had it and hearing

him talk about how in school he never
struggled and, you know, elementary,

middle school, he never struggled.

Um, and how he was an A student and
didn't exhibit any of these sort

of stereotypical signs of ADHD.

Then that, uh, kind of
shielded him from it.

And so I.

The there's so many of these things
that, that, uh, he's talking about.

And so many of these things that
I've experienced, that don't have

an explanation that I've never
been able to understand about

myself and what he's saying really
aligns with what I'm experiencing.

So I went to, uh, my doctor and
said that and she referred me

to a neuropsychologist, which
as you might imagine, combines

neurology with psych psychiatry.

Wait, was he, he was a neuropsychologist.

Yeah, not a neuro psychiatrist.

So, uh, psychology and neurology together.

And, uh, he.

brought me in or I, you know, I went
to him and essentially the, the process

started where it was kind of talk therapy.

And so he was just asking me about myself
and I talked about how in school, I,

you know, wasn't a student that talked
too much and you know, my teachers

always had nice things, especially in
elementary school to say that they'd write

on the little grade card or whatever.

Um, and I was in the gifted program
in middle school, um, and high school.

Still did a pretty good job, but started
to struggle when it came to kind of

extracurriculars in particular sort of
stuff that existed outside of classes.

I could do just finding classes, but, um.

I was in speech and debate for
example, and I had a heck of a time,

uh, going to, uh, debate tournaments.

Once I got there and did it, I was
fine and had a lot of fun, but it

was just like all the preparation
involved and all that kind of stuff.

And looking back on that, you
know, it's like, oh man, why, why

did I have such trouble with that?

And, uh, why does it feel like I can't
kind of, commit to things like I want to.

And so then, um, he had me do a
series of kind of written tests

that were just little evaluations.

So I think there was an English portion
and a, a stuff to do with math and problem

solving and all that kind of stuff.

Um, And then the final process for this
was to after he got some history as well

from, uh, my family was to do a EEG,
an electroencephalogram, and, uh, for

folks who don't know, uh, basically they
are looking at the electrical impulses,

electrical signals in your brain.

And so you get this kind of shower cap
put on your head and the, the shower

cap has these holes in them all over.

So if you've ever done a home
hair dye, uh, you may remember,

uh, pulling your hairs out.

I've never done it by help
my mom with them in the past.

So I can remember doing that.

You pull the hairs out through the
little holes in this case though.

Um, they put these little probes into
each of the holes and they put this.

All over the probes as well.

That's kind of, it's, it's gel mixed
with bits of metal so that it does

a great contact with your scalp.

And so it's, it's not painful,
but it's a little uncomfortable,

but, uh, straps that to my head.

And then this was the weirdest thing I sat
in this room that was kind of like a no

stimulation room was the purpose of it.

And so it's a, I think
there was pretty dim.

There was a screen in front of me.

And he said, stare at the
screen, uh, for the next, and

I don't know how long it was.

I think it was like 15 minutes, but it
felt like an hour with nothing on it.

I just want you to stare at the
screen for the next 15 minutes.

So I just sat there, staring at the
screen going, oh my gosh, hold on on.

Uh, and then after 15 minutes they
put something on the screen and it was

probably reminiscent of a wallpaper or
one of those like iTunes visualizations.

Um, and then the whole time
they're running the E E.

So I left, uh, after that appointment.

And then he said, you know,
whenever we call you back, then

we'll have, uh, the answer.

He and a, uh, team of
neurologists looked at my scans.

Um, and I came back in and he, uh,
sat me down and he pulls up this sort

of visualization of a brain and shows
how, uh, the, the, the different

colors, um, it was like from cool.

To warm.

So blues to reds and
reds were high activity.

Portions of the brain and blue were
low activity portions of the brain.

And he's like in a neurotypical
brain, you're going to see

either all blue or, or.

Mostly blue or mostly red, basically,
there's a balance that exists in the

entire brain of the brain activity.

And he says with yours and he shows me
that this part of my brain was blue.

This part of my brain was red.

What's happening is that you
have, uh, sort of different.

Activations in different parts of your
brain and that's, what's causing, you

know, these, these issues for you.

Um, and so then he went on to explain,
you know, the different methods that

one can use to have help, and, uh,
talked about how stimulant medication

essentially what it's doing,
what they believe it helps to do.

Is it excites the part of the brain.

Um, To to whether it's like low energy
to an extent that it helps to kind of,

it makes your brain sort of balance out.

Uh, so it kind of stops that one
part, one portion of the brain that's

that's red, uh, from being that, and
it kind of balances everything out.

Um, and that was very helpful to me.

Because, yeah, I'm a, I'm a huge nerd.

First of all, love to learn new things
and very much into the science of,

of how any of this works and the
understanding of how any of it works.

But there was an extra layer to this
kind of actually for me, a few extra

layers to this I, this was while I was
in college and I lived in a college town

and I knew a number of people, uh, who

regularly took stimulant medication
who were not diagnosed with

ADHD and took it recreationally.

And I also, as a person of color,
as a black man, um, knew that there

would be stigma associated with that.

And so I wanted to have, what I felt
for me was definitive proof so that it

was a situation where I could say, I.

You know, I went to a neuropsych,
I got these brain scans, even I've

gone through the whole process.

This is as real as it gets for me.

And so that was a very helpful, uh,
thing where there was, I was wor

I, I kind of was preparing for my
brain to be guilting me if I didn't

go through that whole process.

Um, just because of the way that I am.

Yeah.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah, I
can totally understand that.

I feel like a lot of times people will,
you know, read some of my content or

some other content about ADHD and then
have that first like, oh man, is this me?

And then sort of look into it more.

And then a lot of time they'll
ask me, like, what's the

point of getting diagnosed?

Is it just to get meds?

And like, yeah, meds can really help.

I know a lot of people wear
meds, like change their life.

Uh, for me, I'm currently not taking
meds, but I know, I know people where

it's been like super effective for them.

And so like, yeah, you can't get
meds without a, I mean, well, I

guess, except for your college town

Mikah Sargent: if you do it in yeah.

In not great ways.

Jesse J. Anderson: You can't legally
get, get the meds without that diagnosis.

Um, but the other thing kind
of what you're referring to is.

Having that evidence of like, no,
no, this is real because otherwise

my brain is gonna want to say like,
no, you're actually just lazy.

Like, it's gonna go
back to those messages.

I heard as a kid of like, no,
you're actually just lazy.

You're actually, you know, whatever,
whatever those negative labels were

and just sort of like tear myself down.

So for me, I didn't, I didn't get
go the brain brain scanned way.

I mean, I.

Now I'm like, man, that
sounds fascinating.

I, I mean, other than
the 15 minute room, like

Mikah Sargent: yeah.

. That was torture.

Jesse J. Anderson: I can just
sort of like, imagine like what

the brain must be doing for that
like 15 minutes just staring.

Like, I, I can, I feel panicky
just like, thinking about it.

Mikah Sargent: yeah.

Thinking about a hundred things
is what I'm sure I was doing.

I don't, I don't quite remember
just sort of the discomfort of it.

And, um, you know, I, the, the
kind of shocking thing at the

time was the, the neuropsych
was not covered by my insurance.

and it was enough for
me to want to do that.

What I at the time felt was the
right way for me to pay out of

pocket for that whole process.

And I don't regret that to this day that
I, that, you know, I still went and did

that because, it gave me an, it gave
me enough of a bridge between who I am

now and the acceptance that I have of,
of the things that I deal with, uh, and

the person that I was at that point.

And.

Not having that acceptance.

I could sort of rely on that more
physical representation of, no, this

is me when I needed it, as I sort of
bridged the gap and learned more about it.

Because from that point on then
I had, uh, you know, one of

the beautiful powers of ADHD.

I know a lot of us just
love to learn new things.

And so I could really just devour
a bunch of information about

ADHD and, at that point go.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

All of these things are exactly
who I am and just go, okay.

This suddenly makes so much sense.

And then I don't know if you've had
this experience, but we, um, sort

of when we look at things from an
evolutionary perspective and I mean, so.

We as humans in the way that we live
now is such a very small portion of the

larger extent of how humanity has lived.

And so this whole new world that we
have with, uh, artificial lighting

and microphones and everything
is just us a blip on the radar

of what humans are and have been.

And so when we look back at
our hunter gatherer past.

There's ongoing sort of an ongoing sort
of belief that, um, among the tribes,

the folks who were the ADHD, uh, folks
were often the ones that were the.

The hunter gatherer types, but who
were also like Scouts, uh, they were

the curious ones who would go out.

Um, and in some cases be a little bit
away from, uh, other, other members of

the tribe to make sure that the next area
that they were going to was safe to eat.

And so there's that sort of, you know,
there's that joke about squirrel, but.

It is sort of evolutionary evolutionarily
built into us to have that nature of

always being aware and where ADHD, uh,
in that sense was kind of an extra bit

of, of, um, of the senses that we had.

It was, it was an addition to the senses.

And so all of that's to
say a lot of it is genetic.

Um, and given that a lot of it is genetic.

I don't know if you've had this
experience, but I've talked to other

people with ADHD who then look back
at their family and go my brother, my,

because I've got a few members of my,
not all of my family, but there are a

few members of my family who I'm like
these things that you're struggling with.

I know for a fact, it's
ADHD and, you know,

encouraging them to, to get the,
um, whatever it, whatever it takes

to, to sort of take that next step.

And also.

Being able to define things and help them
understand kind of the, uh, aspects of,

of the way that we respond to things.

So don't respond to things is helpful.

Jesse J. Anderson: Right.

Yeah.

I had the experience of, I think
a lot of the symptoms of ADHD were

like, like growing up, I looked at
those and I knew, I was like, well,

there's something weird about me.

Like, there's these things I could
tell that were different, but.

I was like, well, my dad does that though.

And my brother does that though.

So this is just like one of those like
Anderson quirks of family quirks, where

we just sort of act these, you know,
think about things in a certain way.

And yeah, so I had the same experience,
like I got diagnosed and then

it was like, Pretty immediately.

I was like, oh, so clearly my
brother and my dad have this

and my sister probably has this.

And actually when I think about
it, my mom probably has this.

And so like my parents, you know,
they're from a different generation.

They're, they're not interested in
being diagnosed or anything, but to

me, it's it's yeah, it's pretty clear.

Like you said, it's genetic and.

Pretty much entire family has it.

And we were, uh, just recently we were
talking to, uh, my grandfather who he's,

you know, he's, he's, he's pretty old, uh,
these days, but we were explaining to him

how I, I had been diagnosed with ADHD and
sort of telling him a little bit about it.

And he was, he was like, he emailed us
back and said, well, I looked into this

more and I guess this is definitely
something I've had, cuz this was like, you

know, explaining my 80 years had no idea.

So, yeah, so I had a, yeah, definitely
coming kind of both sides of my family.

I think it just kind of
went hidden because of that.

It just was just like, well,
these, this is how we all are.

And so we, it didn't seem like something
worth, uh, looking into, which is a

bummer because I sure wish I had known
earlier than, you 36 years for me.

Mikah Sargent: Absolutely.

And see, that was the thing, uh, too,
the, the neuropsych and I sort of roll my

eyes at this part a little bit because,
well, first of all, I'm Midwestern.

And so anytime someone says something
nice, I'm like, oh, no stop.

But the, the specific diagnosis that
he gave, because he said, I have had

to give this specific kind of diagnosis
before was what he called high IQ ADHD.

And it's essentially a way to understand
why when you, when you ask yourself

or when someone else asks you?

Well, how come you didn't?

How come they didn't catch it?

When you were a kid?

How come, uh, it never showed up
then why is it only showing up now?

And he said, he likes to use that
terminology because there are people whose

intelligence quotient is able to do so
much of masking of the symptoms and where,

uh, a, a teacher might not catch it.

And.

I honestly, so I, I grew up in Missouri
and I had, I wasn't until much later

that I had the realization, um, of the
aspect that I think race played in,

uh, that not being caught because I
was, you know, I, I would get my work.

I, I remember, uh, KJ Miller
talking about it a little bit,

like the, doing the workbook, uh,
and being done with it in no time.

I would, you know, get all my work
done and, and, uh, do just fine.

And yet it wasn't until sixth
grade that one of my teachers

who, um, my lived across the
street from my great grandparents.

So we knew her personally
a little bit more.

And so she paid more attention.

I think it wasn't until
then that, uh, she was.

Have you been, um, evaluated for the,
what we called the gifted program and,

uh, I had not, and she's like, I'm sorry,
we should have done that a lot sooner.

And it's like, yeah, maybe
you should have that.

Would've been great to, do that.

But I was, I was glad to be a
part of it in middle school.

And I think that it did,
it was something that I.

I think that ADHD could have started
to rear its head in middle school.

Had I not had, uh, that gifted program
to, uh, sort of fill in where I was

feeling sort of bored with things.

Um, so yeah, I was glad for that, but.

It's, you know, going back to looking
around and seeing all of your family

and having that realization, but more
importantly, you know, I want them

to know about it earlier and know
about it sooner so that they don't

have that experience where it happens
later and later and later in life.

And you go suddenly I can not, I
don't think any of us ever truly

stop blaming ourselves to an extent.

It, it exists even in a miniscule amount.

But releasing a lot of that guilt,
um, and at least contextualizing

our behavior can be so helpful.

And going, I can give myself room
to breathe now where, before I

thought it was just a moral failing.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah, it's so funny.

I mean, I mean, not funny, it's
so tragic almost, like I hear

that story time and time again.

The.

called gifted as a child.

And so I made it into the gifted program.

And then at some point I failed out
of the gifted program or like whatever

happened, like it's, it almost makes that.

that self blame even worse because
it feels like, well, now they're

telling me, like, I'm not just like,
I shouldn't ju just be doing normal.

I should be doing above normal.

I'm like gifted.

So it's almost like the
bar gets raised even more.

And so when you, you know, for reasons
you don't understand, you can't

find motivation to do certain things
or you can't complete tasks that

you get, you know, so far into and
all those sort of things that come

up in school, when you have ADHD,
it makes it like that much worse.

And there's nowhere you're looking around.

Something like, what, is there something
around here that is the cause of this?

I guess it's just me because everyone else
is saying that it's just me and it's just

my lack of willpower or whatever it is.

And so it's like, it becomes, yeah,
it's so tough because you, that, that

gift, you know, being told you're
gifted just sort of becomes like a curse

hear that word and it's like, oh yeah.

You know, wanna roll your eyes?

Like, yeah, gifted, but I
can't, you know, I can't finish

this paper or whatever it is.

Yeah.

It's brutal.

Mikah Sargent: asking yourself exactly.

Like you said, what I
thought I was gifted.

I thought that, you know, everyone
is telling me all this stuff and

yet I'm, I'm struggling to do that.

And that's what, uh, college
was, especially for me.

Um, because up until that point, uh,
everything was pretty structured.

And, um, for the most part, I, I didn't
have those issues when it came to school.

I, I think I went from being like a
straight A student up to like freshman

and sophomore year of high school and
then junior and senior year, uh, then,

you know, C's B's and A's was what
I ended up, uh, with, because that's

where it all started to rear its head.

It was just all too much at that point.

And, up to that point, I could, you
know, just read something right before

a test and then go in and take the test.

And not an issue that point then
it was like, oh, studying what?

Oh, this is hard.

And I mean, I can even remember
freshman year of college.

Um, my professor from, uh, freshman
year of college never listens to this.

Uh, there was a, there was
a test that we had to do.

And part of it was like, we had
read the, read a book and you had to

write an essay about who knows what.

It was like a comparison between,
uh, the values of Quakers and, um,

what it was like living in a whaling
village at that time or something.

And I remember, it was, it was like right
before I was supposed to write this essay.

Um, I had just finished, uh, reading
the book and I went in and, and did

the, the test and did the essay.

And, um, my professor was like,
uh, he emailed me as he did with

everybody, with all the results.

And he's like, um, you're
a really good writer and.

That's uh, not easy to, I can't
remember exactly what he said,

but it was something really nice.

And it was like, I wanted him to
not say that because it was further

reinforcing this behavior of like,
I can just do something right before

it, you know, it's time to go.

And it's fine.

I had done that so much, but at some
point then that all did catch up to me

and it, I, I couldn't do that anymore.

I couldn't just, uh, wait
till the last minute.

And so that's yeah, that's when the
struggle came in, that's when I had that

realization of like, I'm doing these
inhuman things of putting together a whole

video presentation, uh, you know, two
hours before it's time to go and present

it in the class and it's going fine in
terms of grades, but it's not going fine

in terms of the impact it's having on me.

I gotta figure out what
the heck is, is up.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah.

It's like, you can almost, or you can
only use like stress to motivate you.

Mikah Sargent: Yeah.

Jesse J. Anderson: you got, you have all
the, you have plenty of time to prepare

for it, but then you don't do anything.

And then it's like, oh, only once
it's like, there's no way to do

this without incredible stress.

Then I can like jump into action.

And I mean, the, the problem is,
like you said, I can do that.

And it, the result is pretty

Mikah Sargent: Is yes.

Yes.

Jesse J. Anderson: like, and it's kind
of what you were referring to earlier.

Like the, uh, hunter, you know,
potential hunter history of ADHD

where like pretty much everyone I know
with ADHD is pretty good in a crisis.

Like, of like thrive in that,
like, oh, there's a panic sort of

environment I'm gonna do better than
most people in that sort of situation.

And kind of like the reverse?

Uh, I think like when I think when I
have gotten started on like a project

early, like I have a long runway,
I feel like once I get to the point

where I can see the finish line,
all my motivation like goes away

Mikah Sargent: same,

Jesse J. Anderson: and so there's, there's
almost like a bit of like subconscious

like strategy of like, well, if I do
it last minute, there's no time for me

to even recognize that there's a finish
line because I'm just like in panic mode.

So I.

Rushing.

Yeah.

Rushing to get it done.

And so that's, yeah.

I feel like there's like these
tricks we learn, uh, to make stuff

happen, but the there's a big

Mikah Sargent: There's a cost.

Yeah.

Jesse J. Anderson: yeah, that's hard
to, uh, recognize when you're just

like, I'm just trying to do anything
that can be successful right now.

yeah.

And then later you're like, okay,
well, how can I do it without jumping

into a panic every single time?

Mikah Sargent: Yeah.

And as that's it's I was a journalist,
um, who at like a, I don't know,

ever whatever to call them because,
uh, now I'm a consumer tech

journalist, but at the time I was a.

Quote, unquote, general journalist.

Uh, we covered all sorts of things
and the breaking stories and all

that kind of thing did super well on.

Uh, but when it came to these
like longer term reporting

things, it was just such a slog.

And so yeah, you, you know, something
happens around the world and we're

like in the moment getting, getting it
figured out all of that went super well.

Um, and that was just again at, this was
while I was in college that I was doing,

um, journalism and, and news anchoring.

And, the news anchoring part
where someone would write, uh,

someone else was the writer.

They would write the script and
then I would just stand in front

of the camera and just present it.

And it would be the, you know,
the first time that I read that

script and that was, of course
it had that bit of urgency to it.

So that felt really, uh,
exciting and kept me engaged.

Um, versus the, the longer reporting
stories where it's like, that

I identify is not a job for me.

that is for someone else,
because I just I couldn't do it.

I would just wait and
then try to do it then.

And, uh, yeah, with personal projects
or other things like that, I think.

You can, I can still make it to
where it's what I want it to be.

But when it came to those kinds of
projects, there was, there would

be a clear difference between if
you had taken the time to do all

of these things at different times.

So, yeah.

And it's still, you know, to this
day, um, When it's small things, I

will find myself waiting until, uh,
I, I feel that stress to get them done

versus, you know, these bigger projects
where I've had that realization.

It's like, you can't do that anymore.

Jesse J. Anderson: Right, right.

Yeah.

I'd love to.

So you're real big in kind of the tech
podcasting world and kind of all of that.

I'd love to maybe transition and
talk a little bit about that.

Like how has ADHD sort of affected that?

I think, I mean, part of the reason I
call the podcast ADHD Nerds is because

I find, so many people with ADHD are
kind of drawn to nerdy things, and

that, that is different for different
people where their nerd-dom goes.

Um, and yours, you know, seems
to be kind of in the tech world,

which is similar to me, uh, you
know, you're on the TWIT network.

And that was like, where I very first,
you know, I followed Leo Laporte way back

when he was on, uh, tech TV, you know,
the original G4 and all that sort of

stuff happening and the original TWIT.

So I've been sort of obsessed with
the tech world for a long time.

And it's cool seeing
you a part of that now.

Yeah.

How has ADHD sort of affected
all that world for you?

Mikah Sargent: Yeah, I think, um, I think
the reason that I got into technology

in the first place and found an interest
there is because of how much everything

is changing and how much you can learn.

And I think in particular, how much
it results in sort of a physical

manifestation of your, of one's
interest, um, you know, people

may be super into history and.

I guess if you are able to afford
to travel to the different locations

where historically these things have
happened, then that is where it can be a

physical manifestation of that interest.

Um, but a lot of, a lot of stuff kind.

Exists in in non-oral space.

And so with this, for me, this interest
was, um, I can have a computer in front

of me or whatever it happens to be.

And not only can I make things
with it, but I can also fix, uh, if

something's broken, I can fix it.

Uh, ever since I was even a little
kid, I loved, um, fixing and, and,

uh, creating and building and.

Uh, all sorts of stuff.

Uh, my grandparents were they'd
buy houses and flip them.

And so I learned a lot of
construction and woodworking and all

sorts of that kind of stuff, too.

Uh, and still to this day, it's one
of my favorite non-tech things to do.

But what I'm saying is the
variation of, of tech and the

way that it's always changing.

Honestly the way that it's always
breaking is interesting to me too,

because I do enjoy, um, tackling a
problem that someone brings to me and

they're, you know, they're saying, uh,
my phone is not doing this and now I

get to say, okay, when you say it's
not doing this, what does that mean?

They explain more.

Uh, and then we dig into all of
these different troubleshooting

things and it's not.

and let me be clear here.

If you are a mathematician, you're
going to groan at what I'm about

to say, but let me get through it.

It's not as simple as math.

And when I, when I say when I mean or what
I mean when I say that, is that with math?

Almost always.

Uh, maybe I should say it's not as logical
as math cuz with math one plus one always

equals two, but sometimes when you do this
troubleshooting step, it results in this.

Sometimes it results in that.

And sometimes it can just be, wow,
we really did just need to turn it

off and on again, but there's so many
different things and learning how these

things go wrong, looking for trends.

Um, seeing how a bunch of people who get
a new thing are using it and, uh, what the

common issues are that they experience.

All of that is just so fascinating to me.

And then you get to like pair that with,
um, seeing how things change over time.

And.

Being able to be there at the,
you know, the early adopters

of the, of this new technology.

And I mean, every aspect of
that is just so exciting.

And, and so whether it's coding or,
uh, you know, I originally went to

school to be a graphic designer.

Um, And advertiser.

It was a special program, um,
at the university that I went to

called strategic communication.

And it was specifically tailored
to folks who wanted to go into

PR or go work at an ad agency.

Um, and I always said I wanted
to be Don Draper without the

womanizing and alcoholism, was what
I had originally planned on doing.

Uh, but it was then that I got into
journalism because I realized that

I could help people more that way.

And that for me is actually a really
rewarding aspect of what I do.

And I find that if another person
is involved, then it also helps to

kind of soothe the part of my ADHD.

That's a little bit, um, Uh, you know,
a bit of a struggle I guess, uh, cuz

it's like the angel that is ADHD and
the devil that is ADHD and being able to

help another person in doing something
kind of makes the devil be quiet.

Jesse J. Anderson: right.

Yeah.

I think you really hit on a couple of
things that are really key for why.

So many of us like lean into and
really love, uh, tech, like one,

as you said earlier, like so many
of us, we love to learn people

with ADHD, often love to learn.

And with tech, there's
always new stuff to learn.

And like, even if, even if technology
wasn't constantly pushing forward,

there's just so much that exists.

Cuz like I'm.

I'm a developer.

So I'm in that world and there's
so many languages that I have

no idea how they work at all.

Like I could spend without
anything new happening.

I could just spend like hundreds
of years trying to learn all the

stuff that currently exists, but
there is new stuff coming every day.

So that makes it even more exciting.

There's always new things coming out.

And so, yeah, there's that, that
love of learning, there's just

sort of like an infinite, well, of
knowledge that continues to grow.

Uh, and the second thing, I think
people with ADHD often love to

solve, uh, problems or solve puzzles.

And so, like you saying, like it.

Like it's frustrating when something
doesn't work, but then there's this whole,

almost like adventure of like, how am I
gonna figure out how to fix this problem?

Uh, and kind of the same thing
sort of happens with like

figuring out optimal workflows.

And that's something people
with ADHD love to do too.

Like how can I create a
system that's gonna make?

And maybe I'll spend way more time on
the system than it actually saves me.

But there's something about that.

That's so like fun and
thrilling of just like, how can.

How can I build this like perfect
little like, box that solves

the puzzle for me, going forward
and yeah, it's just so much fun.

Mikah Sargent: Oh man.

I, I agree.

I agree.

And, um, the, I mean, with the specific
work that I do, one of the shows that

I I do every week is called iOS Today.

And on that show, my cohost Rosemary
Orchard, and I talk about apps, um,

and sort of different features and
services that exist, but getting to try

out new apps and more importantly, find
the ones that work well for me, um.

It is, is one of the benefits that I get
out that I personally get outta that show.

And so, uh, Due, uh, an app that I use as
my, it, it bugs me and keeps telling me,

Hey, you need to do this thing until I get

Jesse J. Anderson: D U E

Mikah Sargent: Yeah.

DUE.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yes.

Love

Mikah Sargent: Uh, I, I would not
be where I am today without Due,

because that app keeps me on track.

Um, I.

my next sort of, uh, tackling is trying
to, uh, remind myself about the watch

that's on my wrist when it comes to
needing to remember something, because.

Right now.

And I'm sure everybody out
there, or many people out there,

uh, can identify with this.

You'll have something that you were
supposed to do and you didn't do.

And so you in the moment go, oh, I
need to remember to do that next time,

but you forget to remember that you
need to remember to do that next time.

And so you don't ever
write it down or something.

And I can just think to yesterday, when
I, I was, I remember that I was in the,

uh, bathroom standing at the sink and I
had this, uh, I remembered something and

I go, oh, that's something I need to do.

And then I said, but I will remember it.

So I don't really need to, I,
but I tell you right now, I don't

remember what that thing was.

So apparently I won't remember it.

And in that moment, what I wish I
would've done was spoken into my watch,

cuz it didn't have my phone with me.

I wish I would've spoken into my watch.

And so I'm trying, that is the next thing
that I'm integrating into my workflow is

being more mindful of this on my wrist.

And then remembering that I'm using it
so that I check, uh, cause I use an app

called just press record that I check
that just press record app and find those

things, uh, because that's where I go.

I, I, I wanna ask you a question,
uh, flipping the script here

and then I'll answer afterward.

What do you use to, uh, as a, sort
of read it later or link gathering

service, uh, assuming that you, you
know, you find stuff online that

you don't read at that moment..

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah,
so it's kind of a mess.

Um, so in the past I've used
like I've used Insta paper.

I used Pocket for a long time until
I eventually just was like, I never

read anything that I put into this

Mikah Sargent: literally nothing.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah, put
hundreds of things into and

I've never read any of them.

Um, so a lot of the time, like,
honestly right now, what it is

is just like open tabs in safari.

I have like 480.

I don't know if you know, but
the max you can have on mobile

safari on an iPhone is 500 tabs.

It let you create anymore.

And I, I can, I'm real
close to it right now.

so, and sometimes I, similarly
I use in safari, I have, there's

like the re uh, I forget what it's
called, but there's like a, oh,

Mikah Sargent: oh, reading list.

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah.

Sometimes I'll use that.

But similarly, I, I just have, I, I
have so much optimism for like future

Jesse that he's gonna just have this
time to like, sit down on the couch

with a cup of coffee and just read for
hours and catch up on all these links.

Mikah Sargent: gonna feeling like doing

Jesse J. Anderson: yes.

Yeah.

And then it just, that, that
scenario never, never happens.

Mikah Sargent: oh, I'm
glad I'm not alone in that.

Um, I will be honest with you, even
though I am a techy person who knows

about at least 15 different apps that
are out there that could do this.

I send text messages to myself.

I have an iMessage chat with.

Me.

And it's funny because the iPhone iOS
does seems to not be keen on this.

And so anytime I'm in a situation where
I need to, especially on the Mac, um,

if you try to share on your Mac with
the share sheet, uh, if you type in

your name, uh, it almost always suggests
my email instead of my phone number.

And so that's annoying because.

If I had started a transcript
previously with just my email, then

it'll send to that instead of my actual
transcript that has all my stuff in it.

So I have to physically type in
my phone number in order for it to

recognize that's where I wanna send it.

But yeah, I just, and I just scroll
back and I love, uh, spotlight

search for on my iPhone, on my Mac.

And so I can easily find those
things, but yeah, if there's

something that I need to remember.

That is a link or is an image
or a, a document almost always.

It ends up there.

And then secondarily, I do have,
um, a service called keep it.

And, um, I used keep it for quite a
while, but then I fell back into the

habit of just texting myself again.

it's, it works for me,

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah.

Sometimes the simple solutions like
that, where it's just like just the

raw native app in the most basic form.

Like sometimes that's
really the way to do it.

Um, cool.

So we're, we're kind of leaning into
shiny objects territory anyways.

So why don't we go ahead
and jump into that.

So other than the ones you've, uh,
mentioned already, like what, what's

a shiny object, what's something
that you've been digging lately

with some sort of recommendation.

Mikah Sargent: So, uh, as a person
with ADHD, I love to be able to

immerse myself in something, but still
be able to get other things done.

Uh, I'm a huge knitter and crochet.

I love to, uh, make my hands do
those things, but then also do dishes

and, and do a bunch of other things.

Jesse J. Anderson: wait,
you like to do the dishes?

Mikah Sargent: If, if I'm listening to my
shiny object, is, uh, I have, uh, Audible.

And I'm a huge audio book listener,
and I'm currently listening through,

um, a series called Mother of Learning.

And Mother of Learning came from, um,
a it's kinda one of those online places

where writers will just write and
write and write and write and write.

And, uh, they.

There's a, a service, um, or a
publishing company called podium.

And they pick up a lot of
these fantasy books because

they end up being quite good.

Uh, so then they make
their way onto audible.

And, um, mother of learning is this
story and I'll, I'll quickly, uh,

summarize kind of the, the basic.

Basis of it, um, is the story of a
young wizard, um, or ma I guess he's

called in this book who ends up getting
stuck in a time loop and has to keep

reliving out about a month of life
and, uh, what, how to get out of that

time loop and why the time loop has
happened and all that kind of stuff.

And so this is a really fun
book that has lots of different,

uh, characters in it, but.

Listen to so many audio books.

I a huge audio book library
because I just eat through that

while I'm doing other things.

And like, that is how I don't mind
doing dishes is because my, the part

of my brain that would otherwise be
going, oh, why are we doing this?

I'm so bored gets to not be bored.

So, yeah, that's uh, my favorite shiny
object, I guess it's, um, a ringing

object since of a sound a sight.

Jesse J. Anderson: I, I find that for
me, I always have to listen to audio.

If I wanna do anything, like doing
the dishes, taking out the trash,

any sort of chore sort of stuff.

And, uh, because of that, I also
have the, like, if I wanna listen

to a podcast and I don't have like a
chore to do, then I'll do just like

sudoku on my phone or like something
that's kind of mindless that I'm doing

something while I'm getting to listen
to whether it's audiobooks or podcasts.

And it's almost like, I'm sure it's not,
it's not a one-to-one, uh, comparison,

but kind of like before, when you were
talking about the brain scan where it's

like one part activated one part, not
it's like there's two parts of my brain.

Where one part of my brain wants, you
know, wants to listen to this thing,

but I need more, I need more than just
listening, like sitting and listening.

I need to be doing something else.

And so like finding, getting kind of that
double connection allows me to do dishes.

And so a lot of the time I will.

If I need to do the dishes or I need to
take out the trash, my first step, like

my, my, my task initiation is starting
the podcast that I like, I can only listen

to this favorite podcast of mine or this
favorite audiobook when I'm doing a chore.

so that's like kind of the initiation.

Uh, that seems to work for me.

Um, yeah, so I'm actually, you
mentioned like the spotlight search.

So for my shiny object, I'm gonna
say, uh, Raycast is a new app that

I've been using and I love it.

So it's very similar to the spotlight
search that's like built in on a

Macintosh, um, and a Macintosh, using
really ancient language here for

Mikah Sargent: I wasn't
gonna say anything.

I was gonna let that roll by,
but you called yourself out.

So

Jesse J. Anderson: Yeah.

Like I

of an old, an old hat in the tech days.

Uh, yeah.

So I used to use Alfred a lot,
which is like a replacement

for that spotlight search.

And I loved Alfred.

I've used it for like 10 years,
but recently Raycast it just sort

of, it's very similar to, Alfred,
but it kind of lets you do a

few extra things really easily.

So like creating shortcuts
for things that I do a lot is.

Very user intuitive and I've been a
big fan, so it's very, very nerdy app.

But if you're into, like, if you've
used Alfred before or, you know, way

back in the day, there was Quicksilver
and other apps like that, uh, highly

recommend checking out Raycast and I
believe it's, I believe it's totally free.

There's like a team plan thing,
but if you're just using it solo,

it's free and it's fantastic.

I highly recommend it.

Mikah Sargent: man.

like now the third person who's told
me now I'm gonna have to try I just,

so I've, I've tried Alfred in the past
and I just so love spotlight that it,

it, you know, it's always done what
it needs to, but, uh, I got, I still,

again, it's a new shiny, I gotta try it.

Jesse J. Anderson: yeah.

Yep.

Mikah Sargent: you've convinced me,
does it, what, what, uh, Mac do you use?

Jesse J. Anderson: Well, I actually,
uh, what I was gonna do for my

shiny object, I just got, I, I, I,
I splurge and went for the big one.

So I just got the 16 inch, uh,
MacBook pro and I got, I got it, out.

I have the M1 Max.

And I have 64 gigs of Ram and that's
my new, like video editing machine

that very, very excited about.

So yeah.

That's, that's my, yeah, I, I had,
I had the original M1, the, the

smaller, like 13 inch and I had, I
got it with eight gigs of Ram and oof.

That not work

Mikah Sargent: Yeah.

Jesse J. Anderson: I was like, my
goal was that it was just gonna be

kind of a writing machine anyway.

And even with that, like the
eight gigs just did not hold up.

So I'm very happy with, uh, yeah, my new.

16 inch Mac.

It's good.

Mikah Sargent: All right.

I was curious if Ray cast worked well
on, uh, apple Silicon, so sounds like it

Jesse J. Anderson: yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

It's good to go.

Cool.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much
for being here, Mikah.

This has been, uh, this has been amazing.

I love it.

Mikah Sargent: Yeah,
thank you for having me.

It's uh, fun to get to talk more directly
about ADHD and be nerdy at the same time.

This is great.

Jesse J. Anderson: absolutely

That's our show, thank
you so much for listening.

I especially want to thank our VIP
patrons, Charise Carlson, Dan Ott,

Jessica Cherry DePaul, Luce Carter,
Richard Stephens, and Todd Barnett.

Your support helps me do this show and
the other work I do so thank you so much.

If you want to support the show,
you can go to patreon.com/jessej

that's J E S S E J.

And you can always support the show for
free by leaving a review in Apple Podcasts

or the podcast player of your choice.

Full show notes and transcripts
are available at adhdnerds.com.