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Open Wounds. The NSFW podcast where we explore trauma of every shape and form. Join us as we hear from everyday people about their lives and learn from each other to move from surviving to thriving.
Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Open Wounds podcast. I want to welcome our guest for today, Kimberly Rose Pendleton. I should say doctor. It's very important to acknowledge all your hard work. I know.
Candice:It's You know? So frustrating for I at least my opinion. When somebody's like, I went to college for 8 years. I'm earning that title, doctor. So doctor Kimberly Rose Pendleton, she is a coach.
Candice:She is an author. I know she, has a large, you know, Instagram following, and she is an expert in a couple different areas. But I wanna let you tell everyone what you feel like, you know, like a little intro about yourself.
Kimberly:Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. So happy to be here. I am, it's true, a doctor. I got my doctorate in women's studies and didn't plan to turn that into a coaching business for women.
Kimberly:But looking back, it kind of all feels like it makes sense. Like it was bigger than me. But I, yeah, I run an intimacy coaching business called Uncover. That is just such a joy of my life. And the first book that I ever wrote, Get Uncovered, is kind of the like, do it yourself version of all of that intimacy coaching.
Kimberly:And I do feel like a big part of my work ended up being what I had studied in school, but then like combined with the tools of coaching, which just take it all to the next level. So instead of it just being like that academic setting where you're like reading and like maybe thinking a little bit about it, it's like, I feel like coaching brought it all down into the body. It was like, okay, like we can actually apply some of this. So I'm just so so happy at the way that it's all ended up. Now I'm here with you, and I feel like, I wouldn't get to do this if I were a professor like I had planned.
Candice:Yeah. The, the other thing too I noticed and how I like, my friend, Loyola, connected me with you, is because I have, like, a lot of, history with Christianity and evangelicalism and deconstruction. And so I was like, yeah. This is what, you know, I like to talk about. And she's like, oh, you should talk to Kimberly because, like, that's, like, in her wheelhouse.
Candice:And so I know that, like, a lot of your work focuses on pleasure, which just as a general rule, that's kind of a taboo topic even in non Christian circles. Totally. But even more so in Christian circles because I mean, I don't like I think most people associate pleasure with sex. But even if you look at, like, pleasure from, like, just an enjoying life standpoint
Kimberly:Yeah.
Candice:There's a lot of stuff in religion that is very, like, that's a sin. Right? Even to just enjoy lying in bed or something. Right? So can you talk a little bit about, like, how you landed on pleasure and why that was something you felt was so important to focus on?
Kimberly:Yeah. Thank you. I mean, really, I think you nailed a huge piece of the puzzle, and I do have a Christian background, like you said, and it kind of makes the pieces more obvious, but it's true that even with my clients who are like, no, I like have never set foot in a church. And yet I feel so guilty taking time off or ordering dessert or enjoying something sex or anything, you know, I think you really hit the nail on the head, but there is like this feeling that it's bad. And this feeling that, you know, for me, the language was often like it's sinful.
Kimberly:You know, it felt like anything you want is probably bad for you.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly:Which is just such a complicated thing to teach, especially women. So what I found is that the pleasure work really unexpectedly for me came out of trauma healing and starting to put a piece together that I still think feels a little edgy to talk about around how if you've taught like a whole generation of women that what feels good to them is bad. They are like so susceptible to trauma. And like, well, how would we even know? Like, what could consent even mean?
Kimberly:What could desire even mean? Cause like anything in us would have been like, oh, if it feels good, it's bad. If I want it, it's bad. If I don't want it, maybe that's good. Like just so complicated.
Kimberly:And so my research was about trauma and sex trafficking in particular and kind of like the ways that trauma impacts women in particular. And I started to see like pleasure as this like really understudied, but like kind of minority voice path of like healing and helping, especially like women who were overcoming trauma, kind of like learn to trust their bodies again. And I started to see like, oh my God, like there's so much even like societal trauma and so much going on for so many of us where we were just taught like so much about sex and enjoyment and all these things that are leaving us feeling, like completely confused about like who we are and what we want. And it started to feel like pleasure was this like missing piece, like this medicine that could really help. And it's crazy because, you know, for most of my clients and for me, the littlest things were like feeling scary already, like dressing the way we wanted and eating what we wanted for lunch.
Kimberly:I had a client once literally say, like, she felt guilty because she was bringing so many different pens with her to journal. Like, I should only take one. I mean, it's just crazy the things that are in us like that, let alone the, like, big desires, like, you know, I wanna go to Paris and I wish I could, like, do this and that. And it's like, oh my God, we have so much fear. And I think a lot of it is because we were taught to.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah. You hit on 2 different things that I'd like you to talk a little bit more about. One is the intersection of, like, complex PTSD and pleasure because Yeah. I know for a lot of people who have complex PTSD, it could have came from childhood abuse or sexual abuse or domestic violence.
Candice:So there's automatically, like, this very twisted relationship with it. And then, also, the societal thing of, like, women not being able to trust our own knowing and our own internal desires. Like, you said, oh, that makes you a slut. That makes you a whore. Or, like, you're just a gold digger, or you're just you know what I mean?
Candice:Like,
Kimberly:greedy or, like, what they any bad things.
Candice:Yeah. Basically, I remember when I was, like, a kid, one of the my friend's moms would be like, champagne tastes beer budget, Candice. Like, just shaming me for wanting things. Right?
Kimberly:And so 13. Like, yeah. None of this makes any sense. Yeah.
Candice:Yeah. So if you could talk more about, like, both of those, like, how you see the interplay and how people can get, like, hung up on those things.
Kimberly:Yeah. A 100%. I mean, I relate, first of all. And I do think it's interesting that, you know, all of the things to me, at least it seems that are like so damning to call women, have this connotation of like excess or like kind of unruly, like it felt like, yeah, being lazy, being slutty, being greedy, having just too much, wanting too much, kind of like of anything was really, really looked down upon. And when I think about, like, well, who does that serve?
Kimberly:It feels like there's this smoking gun, like, pointed at the patriarchy and, like, pointed at society that there would be, like, yeah, a lot of benefit to everyone else to keep women, like really questioning what they want and not trusting themselves. We're like so much easier to control. We're so much easier to sell to and to convince we're not good enough. And, you know, I ended up creating this body of work on intimacy and healing intimacy wounds, which is like one of the reasons I was so such a yes to the podcast. And they really correspond, you know, this feeling so many of my clients have of like I'm too much or I'm not enough or I'm unworthy.
Kimberly:I'm just gonna be left, you know, all of this fear and all of this hurt that really feels like it tracks back to, like, I was taught not to trust myself. Yeah. And I don't even necessarily mean by, like, one specific person who, like, spelled it all out. You know, one of the things that I like to say is even if we didn't buy into it, so much of this had already bought its way into us. Yeah.
Kimberly:So there's just this, I think, detox thing that we have to do, that we get to do, that I know you've already, you know, been engaged in for so long of just like, wait a minute. Like, do I really where did this come from? And like, is this really mine? And then I feel like the next step is really starting to imagine like, okay, well, what would, what would it look like for me to start following my desires more as breadcrumbs toward the life that I'm meant for? What if my pleasure is actually an indicator of things being on track, you know, that like, okay, this feels good.
Kimberly:I'm gonna follow it instead of this feels good. I better like get it away from me because it might like send me straight to hell. And what I found is that this is what has led women in my world to like the relationships that feel really healthy, the work that really like brings out their true calling, the life that feels good to them. I just have not seen anything bad happen when women start listening to what they really want.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so true because it's like you said, the pushing away of, like, oh, no. I shouldn't be going into this direction. And I do think it's, like you said, a mechanism for control, and that reminded me of that, I can't remember.
Candice:It was a documentary I saw a while ago about how, like, basically, there's an entire $1,000,000,000 industry focused on making us feel like shit so that they can sell us diet pills and weight watchers and beauty creams and all this stuff. Right? And so, yes, there is a component of, like, people are making money off of us feeling bad. Right. But there is also a component of, like, the structural hierarchy of, like, the family systems and government and things like where they depend on us staying in this role so that they can continue to do what they wanna do.
Candice:Right? A 100%. But, yeah, I think too, like, especially when when you're dealing with, like, trauma and this undercurrent of constantly being gaslit from not just your partner or your parents or your teachers or society of, like, oh, you shouldn't do that, and you start to question yourself, and then it, like, makes you feel like you're crazy. And so then you, like, you are, like, oh, I must be wrong. It must be me that's wrong here instead of, like, focusing on how if we do start to listen to ourself, people are gonna get pissed off.
Candice:Gotcha. Now we're not complying, and it is kind of like a rebellion of sorts, right, where we're kind of taking our power back, and it feels very, like, little scary, and it also feels very much like we're kind of bucking the system.
Kimberly:Yeah. You know, it's so good that you're bringing this up. And I also feel like it's so important to say, like one thing I've noticed, and I really went through this myself, was like, when you follow all the rules and you think like, okay, I'm like doing what they said to do, and then it still doesn't work. Like, there's almost no greater freedom. Like I felt so betrayed by kind of like my discovery that like trying so hard to be the good girl and doing everything right and not doing the things that I wasn't supposed to do and being like, okay, like, desire's bad.
Kimberly:Okay, great. I'm not gonna think about it. Oh, pleasure's bad. Not even gonna I couldn't even order the peach pleasure smoothie at Jamba Juice. I was like, oh, shut down, like just terrified of it all.
Kimberly:And I ended up in this marriage with this guy. We waited, we like did everything we were supposed to do. Didn't do every everything we weren't supposed to do, I guess is more like it. And like, in a story that I know is so familiar to so many, it just it was the wrong it was just such a wrong match, like, in so many levels. And I'm not really, like, allowed to say too much about about it, but it just it was like, I had I was like writing my journal on my honeymoon being like, oh my god.
Kimberly:Like, something's wrong. And, like, it started to set me free. I didn't see it at the time. I was just so pissed and upset. Like, we were talking
Candice:about like, where's my justice? Right. I made
Kimberly:everything right. And, and instead looking back, I'm like, oh, that was the beginning of you being so free because it was like, I did everything I was supposed to and it didn't even work. Yeah. I can't believe it. And now that I've worked with so many clients, some with a Christian background, some in other religions, some not it's like, there is sort of this moment of like, I followed all the rules and you know, my husband left me anyway, or the job that I was supposed to get, like, fell apart and I had, like, you know, given up everything for it, whatever it is.
Kimberly:And it's like, well, now I might as well see, like, what it does it look like if I follow my own rules instead. And it was so freeing, you know, and I've, I've talked with a lot of people about how for me personally, like, I didn't really feel like I needed to leave my own faith. I did feel like I needed to leave the church that I was. Like, the rules and the structure that felt very like the human side. Mhmm.
Kimberly:But, I actually felt and still feel like getting closer to my own desires and, like, my listening to that, like, inner voice more and more, it felt like it was bringing me closer to God and, like, closer to an experience of the divine. But yeah, I got kicked out of a couple of Bible studies. It was some drama for a little while there when I when I first started that process. And I know that that that can be so scary for anybody listening. Who's kind of like, what?
Kimberly:I don't know if I could like handle that. Like, I mean, you know, I, I was really like afraid. And now some of those girls from Bible studies secretly buy my courses because it's like, you know, of course, like nobody taught them about pleasure either. So it's like, well, let me tiptoe back in here.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because I definitely had that I feel like I was, like, right around 34, 35 when I was like, oh, this isn't there's no payout. It's not coming. There's no payout.
Candice:Yeah. Coming.
Kimberly:Such a good way to
Candice:do that. I I was like, I did this and I did this and I did this and I followed all these rules. And I was the good girl, the good girl, and I was always giving, giving, giving, helping, helping, helping. No boundaries. Like
Kimberly:Right.
Candice:Just like the con like, very much, like, conforming to what was expected of me. Yeah. And I was like, this sucks. Like, if this is what life is, doing the right thing, I don't wanna do the right thing. And I I probably swung a little bit too far in the wrong direction for a while, and but I kinda came back to equilibrium.
Candice:But even, like, getting a tarot card reading felt like I was being so satanic. Like, there was these little things I had to do to kinda break it. I had to, like, step out and challenge all the things I had been told to be like, oh, well, that wasn't bad, like, they told me, but I also, like, didn't love it. And so to
Kimberly:me, like Yeah. Like experimenting and being like, okay. Not quite. Not quite. I often joke, and it sounds like you might resonate.
Kimberly:Like, too witchy for church, but, like, too churchy for witch. Like, I so get it. Like, we're
Candice:in that
Kimberly:in retreat.
Candice:It's funny too because, like, you're you're told so many things. And even if it's not about religion, if it's about, you know, your gender roles or your your, you know, your role as a community member or whatever it is, And then when you start to be like, I don't think that is true. Like, there's there's nothing there's no reward on the end of this conformity. It's just suffering on my part. Right?
Candice:And so, I thought like like you said, once I started to question things and really be like, what do I want?
Kimberly:When
Candice:I said that I truly want and get quiet and listen to myself and start to take steps towards that, things just became so much more worth living. Like, literally, you know, there's I think especially if you're in that role of, like, I need to do what's right. I need to make Yeah. It is a lot of people pleasing and a lot of, you know, behaviors like that. And you're you're not satisfied and you're not filled because you're not listening to what you need or what you not want.
Candice:And then once you can start, like, stepping into that slowly, you can realize like, oh, well, no wonder I was miserable because, like, I was denying everything I needed to myself.
Kimberly:Yes. Oh my god. Completely. Completely. Yeah.
Kimberly:Yeah. There's a feeling of, like, freedom. It's also free fall, but you're like, okay. I can also, like, create this. And, you know, one of the things that it felt really beautiful to me was starting to develop a relationship with my, like, inner self and what now I would say, like, with my desires as one where I could trust her.
Kimberly:You know, I think one of the harms that I didn't even know I was experiencing with that way of thinking that, like, your desire is bad. And if you want it, it's bad. If it feels good, it's bad. Is it led me to really think, like, I can't trust myself. And it sounds like, you know, you resonate.
Kimberly:I know a lot of my clients do too. It's like that feeling that at our core, you're not the voice you can listen to. And that is just such a that's such a dangerous thing, you know, and it did start to feel like, oh, I'm like reconnecting, maybe connecting for the first time ever with like an inner me who I can actually trust maybe even before anyone else. You know, I feel like so much of that good girl conditioning is like, listen to outside authority, teachers and pastors and parents, and it's so different to be like, you are the authority and other people can help. And that's so great to get feedback and advice, but, you know, that is like a different, totally different ballgame.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that, like you said, we are so conditioned from childhood to, like, you have to listen to the teacher. You have to listen to your parents. You have to listen to the, you know, whatever.
Candice:The rules. Follow the rules. And so, yes, there's a balance to keep kids safe, but also teaching them, like, what do you internally want? And it's so funny because my 9 year old I'll be like, well, what do you wanna do today? And you're like,
Kimberly:oh, I don't know. Like, because there's Yeah.
Candice:So many choices. Right? And so it can feel overwhelming when you're first starting to do this work to be like, what do I really want?
Kimberly:Yeah.
Candice:And then, you know, I think you touched on, like, a little bit of, like, sometimes it's, do I want a new career? Do I want different relationships? Do I wanna set boundaries? And some like, for me, what I've kinda run up against too was, like, I want, a level of life that other people are gonna be upset about. Right?
Candice:Like Yeah. Like you've mentioned, the Paris thing. There's a lot of, like, guilt that comes with this and, like, scariness because if I'm really honest with people, they're going to judge me. They're going to say things to me because when I've tried in little ways,
Kimberly:like I
Candice:bought that $400 purse or whatever, and then the person was like, oh my God, I can't believe you bought that purse. Right. And so I think that's, there's another component to, of like stepping through fear and then also like a guilt aspect that comes in.
Kimberly:Yeah. Oh my God. I could not relate more to what you're saying. And it's true. Like I would even go so far as to say, like, it felt kind of like I would die if people knew, like, a, what I really wanted and then b, if they, like, saw me going for it.
Kimberly:I I don't even know where in some ways, like, where that came from. Like, obviously, we're talking about how, like, book comes from everywhere. Like, it's just like it's the air you breathe in, but I even wonder if for some of us it's like ancestral and like way back, like women who stood out, women who spoke up, like, what did we do? You know, it feels kind of like that fear. It's like, well, I'm gonna be not only disapproved of, but that that disapproval might mean I'm
Candice:dead. Banishment or, you
Kimberly:know, being cast out. Right. Like, it's not just gonna cost me, like, an eye roll from somebody. It could cost me, like, my whole community.
Candice:Yeah. You
Kimberly:know, I think that that's so deep and it can feel so dangerous in a way that, you know, not everybody understands. It's like, why can't you just buy a purse, go to Paris, like, whatever. It's like, woah, you don't get it.
Candice:You don't get it. Yeah.
Kimberly:I'm gonna, like, die. Yeah.
Candice:Yeah. It does feel very especially if you've had, like, a lot of people in your past, when you're younger shaming you or rejecting you or alienating you and you becoming, like like people were like, oh, you're so prissy. And now it took me, like, I really shadow banned that part of myself for a while. Like, I remember a decade where I wouldn't even wear the color pink
Kimberly:Right.
Candice:Because it was too prissy, and it had to be, like, hard or whatever. Like, it was very weird until, like Please. Just recently in the last 5 years, I was like, oh, so what if I have a, like, a Hello Kitty cup? Like, who gives a fuck? Like, this is my life.
Candice:Right? Okay.
Kimberly:I'm so glad you said that. Absolutely. I completely hear you. And I just had a baby daughter a few months ago, and I've been letting myself kind of, like, under the guise of shopping for her. But, like, first she's like 4 months old.
Kimberly:She doesn't know like what's even in her room, but I'm like, it's such inner child feeling to be like this pink thing and this like swan and ballerina stocking, like, and it's so for me, because it's so similar to what you're saying that like that part of us that was maybe, Yeah. Like just considered way over the top, you know, like what if she got to come out? And I often have thought, you know, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who then are like celebrating different milestones and it's like really popular in our industry to like buy a fancy purse, which I love a fancy purse. I so support this for people. But every once in a while, there's something else that is like the American girl doll that they like Oh
Candice:my gosh.
Kimberly:Have as a child or the like Yeah. Pink frilly dress that, like, their partner would never have loved or, you know, something like that that really is even more aligned with, like, what part of me was not allowed to come out.
Candice:Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's so true. And, also, like, you were talking about the inner child work is such a integral part of our healing. Nice.
Candice:Because, like, just for example, recently, I was at this Vipassana meditation retreat, and I was not going well. And I, like, sat with myself and because I've done, internal family systems work before.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Candice:And so then it's like, okay. There's all these little kids in me, like, different ages and stages. And I was like, what's going on in here, guys? And, like, there's the part of me that's, like, really angry. Like, we don't wanna be here, and we want out of this.
Candice:And, like and so, I think, like, working with your inner child can be so therapeutic, and it can also, like, bring up a lot of, like, judgment from people. So
Kimberly:Yes.
Candice:You know, if it's easier to take baby steps and do it in a way where you're not gonna be, like, putting it on social media or whatever, which you can still have that fun. Like, I recently got really into bath bombs.
Kimberly:Wow.
Candice:And I was like, this is so silly, and it seems so frivolous, but it brings me so much joy. And I just don't, like, loving just that number 1, like, acknowledging my inner child is really having fun with this. Yeah. But, also, it's combining, like, a nurturing aspect and, like, a a Yes. Aspect of, like, taking the time for myself to not rush through a shower.
Candice:I'm, like, sitting in the bathtub, which I know you love bathtubs
Kimberly:because you're, like, always posting bathtub pictures. Speaking my language, but no, you're so it's so making sense. Yeah. And to be like, there is an element of like, playfulness and delight in here, but also it is like a deep confrontation with, like, that part of you that maybe was like, okay, hurry, you know, like rush be onto the next thing. It's like so different to just get to soak in your own luxury and, like, inner child healing moment.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Candice:I think too that's, like, the intersection of, like, pleasure and joy, which I think a lot of people confuse joy for pleasure as well because they are kind of, like, you know, it's okay to be happy, but don't be too happy. Right? Like, it's okay to have fun, but don't have too much fun. Right? Like, there's Yeah.
Candice:That's another part of it where joy and pleasure, like, interchange a lot for us. And I think it's another area where people get, like, shamed or they feel guilty about it or Yeah. You know, they they wanna be taken seriously.
Kimberly:Right.
Candice:So I don't know if you have, like, tips for people on how to integrate that more.
Kimberly:I love that question. You know, I think that one thing that you already spoke to so wisely, but just to circle back to around, like letting pleasure be kind of like liberated from being just about sex and sensuality, like that can be so helpful and like giving ourselves kind of permission to find it everywhere. And I, I have really found the senses to be kind of like a good guide where it's like, okay, like what can I, what can I like see and touch and smell and feel that would like feel pleasurable or like feel good, especially if I'm feeling kind of like overwhelmed or I'm having a moment of just like neurodivergent, like executive dysfunction, you know, having kind of like a, okay, like, can I like come back to my senses and like burn a candle and drink a coffee and wrap myself in something soft? And there is this like pleasure as experienced, you know, that like has been really grounding for me. And I find joy to be kind of like the outcome, you know, building that more and more into my life and getting more fluid in the language of my own desire and pleasure.
Kimberly:It's like, oh, joy becomes this baseline. It's actually so moving to think about this, and I haven't really before. But you know, 10 years ago, before I was doing this work, my baseline was like terror at like much more just like, oh my God, you know, somebody is going to like, first of all, find out like how bad I am inside, you know, that really felt like such a strong current. And I think that that is so instilled and then, like, capitalized on within, like, really high control religion. Just that sense of, like, you know, deep down, you're bad.
Kimberly:Yes. Life is about managing that badness from like not letting more of it come out like, oh my God. I mean, like teach it to children. It's like so intense. And so, you know, I think I really felt nervous all the time and like scared and that feeling of like, Oh, if anybody knew like what was really going on in here, I would like be so unloved and, like, unworthy.
Kimberly:And it's so interesting and, like, amazing, honestly, to think, like, my baseline now is gratitude and joy and, like, life feels so good. Yeah. When I think about you know, I think like all entrepreneurs, you know, I, like, run this $1,000,000 business. Sometimes I'm like, what do I do? Do I do anything?
Kimberly:What do I do? Yeah. I'm like, even just this conversation and, like, reflecting on that change and, like, it's as simple as, like, I used to feel terrified all the time and now I feel joy and, like, pleasure was the path. Mhmm. That feels, like, clear enough, honestly.
Kimberly:Yeah. The next time I'm freaking out, feeling like I don't do anything real. I think I'm gonna relisten to this episode. Yeah.
Candice:I it's so funny. You touched on 2 really good things. The the first one is, like, the I'm, at my true core, gonna be evil, which is so funny that you say that because I was like, maybe this is just me. But the, when I started doing the to be mad magnetic shadow work, that was my thing. And I read, the dark side of the light chasers by Debbie Ford, but I was truly and I'm I'm 99% sure that was because of the religious stuff, was that I believed at my very, very core, I was pure evil.
Candice:And then if anybody found out about it, like, it's game over. Right? And so as I started to do the shadow work Wow. And work with myself, I'm like, wait a minute. Yeah.
Candice:Pure evil? Like, yes, I I get angry sometimes and I, you know, wanna beat somebody up or whatever. Right? Like, whatever comes up. But at my true core, there it was like this monster that when I really brought it into the light and started to shed love and compassion on it, I was like, there's nothing really evil here.
Candice:Like, why am I it was just this fear that I was evil. And when I really looked it in the face, I was like, oh, I'm not evil. And so it was so liberating. And then like you said, like, the other part of it is when you're living from that state of, like, fear and anxiousness and worry and dread and misery and suffering, and you start to move into the joy and gratitude and peace and pleasure state, number 1, it disrupts a lot of people around you. Like, they're gonna be, like, irritated by it.
Candice:Yeah. But it also is, I think, so taboo to live from that place. Right? Like, especially when you get into, like and I try to, like, balance this, but when you get into that, like, social justice warrior, like, woke culture where it's like, how can I enjoy my pleasure and my joy when Gaza is happening? Right?
Candice:Like, there's all these things that were it's so difficult to kinda, like, integrate. Yeah. But, also, I can't like, there's a couple different people that have said it a couple different ways, but, like, you suffering isn't gonna stop them from suffering. Like, you can't get poor enough to help the poor, I think, was a windy eye or thing.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Candice:So it's like, you know, how do we metabolize that? Like, I want to feel good all the time, and I wanna live a life where I feel happy to wake up, and I feel like I can enjoy my day Yeah. And not be burdened with guilt and shame and all these other emotions. You know?
Kimberly:No. I think it's really important to that we're talking about that, and it is tempting to skip it sometimes and to just, like, leave out that part of the equation because it it can be complicated. And I think it's completely fair when people are like, you know, how, how does this all work together? Because it's not just about each individual person, you know, feeling better. But at the end of the day, I think you're absolutely right to say our own misery doesn't tend to be that helpful.
Kimberly:And when I look at my past and think about those times where, you know, I was more in my own fear, my own anxiety, I was so self absorbed by that, that like, there wasn't much to give from. Yeah. And when I think now about, especially kind of like the success piece around my business, what I've been able to do and this kind of feeling of being an overflow and being able to give from that. And I think there's probably like an even more, abstract version that's more like with my attention and with my focus, but I mean, even just like money, you know, it's like, oh, the happier I've been, the better my life is, the more I have literally, like, the more I've been able to give. And it has led me to believe, like, okay.
Kimberly:Do I think it's an easy answer? Like, absolutely not. But am I noticing that, like, the more and more of my life is filled with pleasure, I'm able to give and receive a lot more at like a much higher level? Like, yes. And that does feel worth noting.
Kimberly:You know, it's, I don't think it's a perfect solution. Obviously I have so much privilege. I have so much access. I know that that's not true for everyone. And it does tend to land me in the place of feeling like, yeah.
Kimberly:And the best thing I could do with that is turn it into something that feels good so that I can like create and give from that place.
Candice:Yeah. Yeah. I agree because I feel like the more I try to leave the the constant, like, suffering, misery, I feel like shit all the time Yeah. And move into that state of, like, joy and gratitude in meeting my needs first, which Yeah. Seems counterintuitive that if we focus on ourselves, we would have more to give, but that really is what I found the way it works.
Candice:Like, the more I take care of myself or nurture myself and love myself, the more overflow I have to give back to my community. Or, like, if if we're looking at money too, like, if you're in a shitty vibe all day long and you're, like, broke and you don't have enough money for gas, you don't have money for groceries, you can't help the homeless person.
Kimberly:I know.
Candice:You can't go buy that McDonald's meal or something. Right? Because Right. You don't have enough money for your own gas tank. So if you can elevate into another, like, realm for your finances, your power to be able to give back is so much magnified.
Candice:You know? I think
Kimberly:Yes.
Candice:That's something I've been working on a lot in the last couple years is, like, figuring out how can I move the needle? You know what I mean? So that I'm operating from a place of, like, overflow and abundance and increase in income. And I like that you said, like, that pleasure was your path Yeah. Away from, like, the academia and, like, all these things you were supposed to do.
Candice:You started, like, bucking the norm and being, like, let's follow the the pleasure trail. Yeah. And then suddenly, like, money is flowing. Like, I can you talk more about, like, how those are connected?
Kimberly:Yeah. Like, wait a minute. Is there, like, a piece missing here? I mean, I think a couple of things. And one is that, like, I did end up taking what I had been through and turning it into like courses and a coaching program that I thought could help other people in charging for that.
Kimberly:And so that's why I called my business uncover. Like it felt very like, okay, like this process for me has been like kind of stripping down and like figuring out like who I really am. And I do now believe that we pretty much all have that. Like we all have something we did that was hard for us. Or maybe not, maybe it was easy and we could teach other people and get paid.
Kimberly:And it just kind of changed my life to think that, like, not only could I have been through this, but maybe I could help other people too. I've even now added a twist to the last year where I've been like, I feel like you're getting paid back for all of this stuff I
Candice:went through. That's I wanna latch onto that because I'm like, oh, I want some, what is that called? Like, residuals or something, like back payments?
Kimberly:My god. Residuals. You should talk about this. Yeah. I felt like I was getting kind of, like, a refund for my, like, for the trouble that I've been through.
Kimberly:And so if any if that's, like, a helpful paradigm for anyone feel free and obviously like the flip side of it, that's like maybe even a little sweeter to talk about is like, yeah, like I went through this. Can I make someone else's version easier? Someone else's journey a little bit better. Like my, one of my very first courses was about like reclaiming your body basically after like sexual trauma or religious trauma or just like all those things we've been talking about about just feeling like you're bad, pleasure's bad, like really hard to have an orgasm, like from that space. And so the thought that like it could shorten someone else's time span that I could receive money for this and that we could be creating kind of like a new paradigm even of like, what is business?
Kimberly:What is money? Like, what is all this for? What if it's actually about like supporting women as they, like, tell their story and change the narrative for other women? Like, it just felt really radical to me. But on a less literal level, because that was, like, literally, like, I'm using pleasure and selling it, basically.
Candice:Yeah. Well, I mean Yeah. It's been done for ages except to to the male to the male gaze. Right? Like, if we look at the pornography industry Right.
Candice:It's all majority focused on male pleasure, and Right. The star of the show is the guy, and it's all about what he wants. And so even just that, that's a $1,000,000,000 that people make money off of night and day. And so Yeah. What's what's the difference between yeah.
Candice:Our side. Yeah.
Kimberly:100%. Like, why not our version about healing and empowerment? And for anybody who's like, okay, I don't wanna be a coach or a course creator. That's fine. I do still think trusting, like learning to trust those pleasure breadcrumbs and like follow them toward the thing like we are supposed to be doing is, like, still the path, you know, even if it, like, lands you somewhere else, it's slightly less terrifying job.
Kimberly:Yeah. But, yeah, there is something something in me had to really shift because even yeah. Of course, academia, It was, like, coming at me from all sides. Church, academia, like, liberal, which I'm very liberal, social justice y stuff. It was like, oh, yeah.
Kimberly:Anything good is bad. Yeah. In, like, all of these realms. Mhmm. Like, and no Paris for any of them.
Kimberly:Yeah. You know, just, like, very strict. Mhmm. And this idea that, like, okay, I've gotta deprogram from this idea that, like, the only way to be good is to be, like, miserable and sad and, like, in a library basement, like, having everything in the light of day. Yeah.
Kimberly:And instead start to be like, what if, if it feels good for me, it's good for me. And what if the more I do that, the more I can like trust myself and what if I can trust it? It's like leading me to, you know, the people I meant to be with, but also the work I meant to be doing.
Candice:Yeah. I think that's true. Like, if we go back to even just, like, the the social justice work is if your work reaches more women and more women become empowered and are able to trust themselves and to grow their own personal pleasure and joy
Kimberly:Right.
Candice:It's a societal effect. Right? It's a ripple effect. Right? Because it's gonna like, what's that?
Candice:The rising tide lifts all of Jesus kind of thing. Right? And so this isn't just about you being greedy and wanting to make 1,000,000 of dollars. It's also because you're you're helping people in the process. Right?
Candice:Like, you're empowering other women to to listen to their own inner voice and take the steps that are gonna work for them. Yeah. But, yeah, I think that there's again, like the smoking gun you talked about, there's a reason why they wanna keep us all miserable. They wanna keep us all, like, depressed. And Yeah.
Candice:It's funny you talked about orgasm because I think that's another aspect too is, like, there's so many of us on, and I'm currently not on, but, like, antidepressants and antianxiety meds. Yeah. And one of the side effects of those is, like, not being able to have orgasm or not being able to, like, have, like, sexual you can't like, you're numb. You're numbing not only your emotions, but you're numbing, like, your other stuff too. And so name.
Candice:I feel like, you know, if we look at, like, what's the root cause of all this suffering and how can we step out of it each in our own way and empower each other to take those steps even though, you know, it may feel kind of scary or weird or may we may have guilt over it. But Right. And I know we only have, like, 15 minutes left, and I know you love Gilmore Girls. I've been watching Gilmore Girls lately. I'm, like, in season 6 now.
Candice:And so, like, to wrap it out, I wanted to be like, who is your favorite character on the show? Uh-huh. Who's, like, your least I know there's a complete departure from what we were talking about, but
Kimberly:I wanted to ask. No. My Gilmore Girls advent calendar is like right here. I'm like so ready for this. I love season 6.
Kimberly:So I this is a good question though, because I really have thought about, like, you know, growing up watching it.
Candice:So I just wanna acknowledge that the recording cut off abruptly. I thought we had got it all, but, apparently, we lost, like, the last few minutes of the recording with doctor Kimberly Rose Pendleton. And so, basically, to reframe, she was sharing with me that she really loved all, you know, Rory and Lorelei and Emily Gilmore as the seasons progressed and as she saw that their, you know, trajectory of their personal development in the show. And so we talked a little bit about, like, the character she didn't like was Kirk because she saw him as, like, flighty, but then someone compared her to Kirk, and it was, like, really offensive to her. But, anyway, I'm rerecording this part so that the podcast doesn't seem kind of random me rambling.
Candice:It was me talking and no one else on the last, like, 10 minutes of the show. So it didn't make any sense for me to leave it like that, and we were unable to regain the recording that we had. It's just, like, lost in space somewhere. So I did want to wrap up with saying, if you wanna dive into doctor Kimberly's work, you can find her on Instagram at doctor Kimberly Rose Pendleton. You'll, see her picture.
Candice:I think she's wearing, like, a pink dress. I also have linked all of her stuff down below in the show notes if you're wanting to go to her website. She has free materials on there about recovering from purity culture and regaining control of your pleasure. She also has, something happening right now online where you can sign up and get some free content on the good witch, I think, is the one that's out currently. But you can go to her website that's also linked below and, follow her work, learn more about how you can integrate pleasure in your own life and make it your own in your own daily practice.
Candice:So I hope you all enjoyed this episode. Have a great day. Thanks so much for watching and listening.