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Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
Welcome to technology brothers, the number one live show in tech. We are live from the Temple Of Technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital. It's Monday, Friday, it's Monday, 02/10/2025, and this show starts now. We got an amazing show for you guys. We're covering news from Anduril, Replit, Mistral.
Speaker 1:We're covering how China's reacting to the tariffs. They're going after our tech companies. We're going after a new Gundo accelerator for hard tech companies. That's gonna be amazing. We're giving you an update on Sonos turmoil at that company, predictable, predicted on the show.
Speaker 1:We're giving you a deep dive on Jim O'Neil. Who's going to HHS, and we're gonna cover the super bowl and a bunch of other timeline, crazy news over the weekend. Lots of stuff went down and we'll cover it all here, but let's kick it off with some incredible news that we broke last Friday. CNBC, reported that Andral is raising money. And the first folks to post it on the timeline, none other than TBPN, We said breaking news from CNBC and TBPN on andro fundraise as much as 2,500,000,000.0 in series g funding led by $1,000,000,000 from founders fund revenue doubled to about $1,000,000,000 I think they spent 300,000,000 on, Hawaiian t shirts, and the company's doing well.
Speaker 1:Palmer lucky quote tweeted us. Thank you, Palmer. We'd love to have you on the show. Jordy, what was your reaction to, the Anduril fundraise?
Speaker 2:Look. I mean, as much as this is about Anduril, this was really about us. We were the first people to break the news that CNBC was breaking the news that Anduril was pulling off this raise. And and, honestly, it was the highlight of my journalistic career to date. Just being there in that moment, seeing CNN get CNBC get the scoop and then being first to hit the timeline, you know, putting our own spin on it.
Speaker 2:That's just what, you know, technology journalists live for. And, although I'm not a journalist myself, we, you know, we talk about a lot of journalists on the show, and I like to feel like, you know, I like to kind of understand them, and so I I felt like we could embody them. So big moment for the show. Big moment, for Anduril. I I felt like over the last year or whenever they closed their last round, it had to have been twelve months ago at this point.
Speaker 2:As this year progressed, it just felt like Anduril at twelve to fourteen billion dollars or whatever that last round was. It just started to feel really, really, really cheap mentally in your head. Right? Because everything that's changed in the world, everything that's happening, all the momentum that they have, and, you know, especially looking at Palantir and the public markets Anduril at $14,000,000,000, they were given away equity. Right?
Speaker 2:So, very cool to see this this up round, and, it's sort of exciting. It's good and bad for for other founders in the defense tech space. There's this saying, the androil of x will be androil. You know, a lot of founders have raised on this idea that, hey. You know, I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna build an androil in this specific category.
Speaker 2:But you have to understand that an androil's ambitions are extremely wide reaching. And like other primes, we now have two what what what are very clearly, you know, primes of the future, Anduril and Palantir. They fully intend to continue to be aggressively multiproduct. And now that they've built this distribution channel, monetize it in a bunch of different ways. And so this round is just evidence that it's it's really evidence that, they have solidified this distribution channel.
Speaker 2:They're getting contracts. They have real revenue. And that is so valuable in and of itself because there's a lot of other defense tech startups out there, some of which I'm an investor in, and I'm sure you are too, that that have great products and or will have great products, but but getting to that actual contract stage is just so difficult. So very cool to see. Good for America.
Speaker 2:Great for, you know, the whole Anuril team. They, they certainly work, harder than most, and I love to see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I heard this and was just thinking, cousin.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Palmer had a fun, bit of posting. He quote tweeted us and said, your mind will detonate when you find out what our investors already know. Stay tuned for next week. And then he went on to post, the Vince McMahon meme in a series of posts, live footage from our most recent investor update meeting. And Vince McMahon is going wild.
Speaker 1:You'll love to see it. And, yeah, it was just an amazing moment for the early Anduril team to kind of look back and see what they've accomplished over the last eight years ago. So Matt Grimm post almost exactly eight years ago. We signed a lease on a moldy garage previously used by American Airlines to store lost luggage. This week, we signed terms to raise 2.2, 2 to 2 and a half billion on 28,000,000,000 pre.
Speaker 1:It's still so early. LFG. And the photos, that if you go to the next one, it's it was looking rough in that first in that first Anduril HQ, but
Speaker 2:Do you have
Speaker 1:did what they need to do.
Speaker 2:Have the second do you have the second image here? I think there was another one where he said did he say it was did he say that mold was character building or something like that?
Speaker 1:They yeah. They had a deck in there. I don't have it pulled up here, but, they had a deck where it says, just a slide with the images. It says mold. All okay.
Speaker 1:Just surface, removed, builds character. And so that was the culture of this company early on. And I think a lot of people get lost in the fact that it's like, oh, Palmer's in, and and very quickly, it became a big company. It was taken very seriously in Silicon Valley. But, early on, they were just like any other startup, scrappy and just hustling.
Speaker 1:And, to your point about the andro of x being andro, I think that that's true probably in the most narrow sense, but, the the the optimistic opportunity has been, when you look at what what is flock safety? In many ways, that's the anderell of local police departments, or it's the palantir of of local governments. Yeah. But it's so far outside of the mission parameters of androil or Palantir that they've been able to build a really great business. And I think when you think about the the androil of, home security, that's a company that people are working on now Or the Andoril of Yeah.
Speaker 1:Your kitchen, and it's just all you're taking is, hey. We're gonna do really hardcore engineering on hard tech, and we're gonna take the Andoril ethos of software and hardware combined, and we're gonna take it to a completely untouched industry. That's great. We need Anduril for commercial airlines. We need Anduril for, you know, traffic control, all all different response areas.
Speaker 1:But, yes, it is gonna be tougher if you're just trying to build the Anduril Two Point o in the DOD, which they're actively building.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and to be clear, it's still, you know, Anduril has historically been very acquisitive. They've used acquisitions to build out their product lines, and they're gonna this, you know, having a $28,000,000,000 market cap allows you to get pretty aggressive on stuff like this. Because if you find a, you know, a talented team that has built a very, you know, robust product and and they have, and and they can take it further, and it sort of fits into the Anduril portfolio. You know, Anduril is gonna continue to be aggressive there.
Speaker 2:And so as I have told the founders before, shoot, you know, shoot for, DOD contracts. But if you miss, there's a chance you'll you'll land in a, you know, Anduril acqui hire.
Speaker 1:Great. So Yep.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:so Trey Stevens chimed in. He says day one in the moldy warehouse after Matt Grimm applied some paint to the walls. And, yes, it is true that pronunciation was a topic of discussion. Is it Andoril or Andorol? And, Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well well, if you if you go and listen to the actual Lord of the Rings movie, they pronounce the sword. I think it's Aragorn's sword, Anduril. And so there was a big question about, are we going to kind of anglicize the word, or or are we gonna just constantly be saying words and that sound like el elvish? And I think there's still some debate internally. And depending on when someone got involved in the company, they say it's slightly different.
Speaker 1:But now it's just, oh, good. Oh, I and a roll. You know?
Speaker 2:And a roll. Yeah. I like I like how you can really hit it with a country draw, and it still sounds good. Yeah. My my cousin works over at Andaril.
Speaker 1:Andaril.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He loves it. He says that Palmer guy is a real he says that Palmer guy is a real stud.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's great. Well, let's move on to some commentary on the video that we shared. We broke the news that CNBC was covering it, and, Nathan, good friend of the show, shared our video. Thank you, Nathan.
Speaker 1:And he says, gotta love the quadruple down energy from Founders Fund into Anduril. Led the serie led the seed a f and now g rounds with this 1,000,000,000 check. My guess is they have invested, 1 and a half to 2 billion into the company overall. That's circa 10% to 15% of the firm's AUM. Badass.
Speaker 1:Also supplied one of their partners, Trey Stevens, as a cofounder and now chairman. And so, yeah, FF loves, Anduril, and let's, continue with Hackie. Yeah. What you got?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was just gonna give some some history. So Joe Lonsdale posted the other day one of their super early offer letters from Palantir, which was the predecessor to Anduril in many ways
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, sort of forged the path into working with the Department of Defense and the government more broadly. And Joe shared an anecdote, which was that, he said the early team at at at, Palantir laughed at the idea of Palantir being worth a 5, you know, 5 being worth $5,000,000,000. Like, if you actually look at the offer letter, he's sort of spelling out, like, here's what happens if we're a $1,000,000,000 company. And that's that's what founders will do, obviously, to kind of illustrate what could your be your equity be worth. And so to go from, that you know, them thinking at the time, hey.
Speaker 2:$5,000,000,000 could be a great outcome here to now Founders Fund, which was a part of Palantir through through Peter, and and through they they also did a similar strategy in Palantir, right, in the in the private markets. Yep. But to now be investing almost $2,000,000,000 or something in that range into a company, you know, it just just shows the growth of the private markets broadly and and sort of the the conviction. And you've talked about this before. This is the founders fund strategy is not a secret.
Speaker 2:It's basically zero to one. You find power law companies, and you try to own as much of them as humanly possible. So it's cool to see it enact.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's the last mover advantage, and, fund concentration is really, really important to drive returns. There are usually just a few companies that drive the vast majority of returns in venture. You need to pile in those, figure out, you know, what is the class of assets, get the best asset in that class, and get the highest percentage ownership. And I've seen other firms, you know, nail it.
Speaker 1:I think a good example was I think Sequoia, owned the highest percentage of was it Nubank in which is a a South American fintech company. And they and it was the it was by far the winner in terms of LatAm companies over the last generation, and Sequoia just built a huge position and and got a great return there. And so when the when the power law company emerges, making sure that you're at the top of the stack is is really, really key to driving fund returns. Packy McCormack quote tweeted us. Thank you, Packy.
Speaker 1:He says, my thesis is straightforward. There will be a SpaceX and Anduril in every big category led by sclerotic incumbents. These vertical integrators will be much bigger than the incumbents they replace. I love that. That's very good.
Speaker 1:And, Chris and Garrett yeah. What you got?
Speaker 2:I still am laughing at, you texted me, like, Friday evening being like, this CNBC just broke this news. Like, should we post it? And I was like, yeah. Let's add a let's add a couple of zingers in there and rip it. And then our post was the one that got shared, like, super oddly.
Speaker 2:CNBC CNBC the CNBC social media managers looking at this post being like, what is going on? Why does this post have why does this have post have, like, a million views and ours has, like, 50 k?
Speaker 1:They're not x native. They're just not. Like, they they they they post it on TV, and we post it on x.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's simple.
Speaker 1:It's great. It's great. More coming. I mean, we're gonna be more live. We're gonna be breaking
Speaker 2:news here. This is just a long con that we plan to LBO CNBC, you know, at some point in between 2026 and 2030. So, we're just getting started.
Speaker 1:And so, Christian Garrett over at one three seven Ventures, I believe they're a shareholder in Anduril. He says little word to the wise here says, how much Andoril secondary fraud is out there right now? And low tam banger, he's doing a public service here, only four likes. I'm one of them, but this is very important. There is a ton of there's a ton of secondary fraud.
Speaker 1:You get on some webinar. Somebody says, hey. I have allocation in this hot round. Do you wanna invest? You wind up sending them your money, and they don't get the allocation.
Speaker 1:And where did that money go? Sometimes it's completely stolen. Sometimes it's just somebody who's trying to get an SPV going, and then they kinda falter out, and they don't get it over the finish line. You get your money back. But either way, not a good place to be in.
Speaker 1:So be careful out there if you're trying to hoover up some stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean, even even Anduril is already a company where people will pitch you on investing in Anduril, yet there's layers and low layers of SPVs between you and the actual shares. And sometimes, you know, there was space esacking happening. And it's funny because that happened with SpaceX. And even if you got into these, like, layered SPVs, you still did pretty well because, you know, there's it's been such an astronomical outcome. No pun intended.
Speaker 2:But, but, yeah, still you wanna be super careful here because, typically, the companies are not actually endorsing this activity. So it's already sort of a gray market type, activity. Right? So be careful out there, folks. All you size lords.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so I wanna close out with a little promoted post from Anduril, try and help them out with some hiring. Jen, who I believe is their head of design, says from the studio that brought you the Bolt industrial design, Barracuda animated short, the road runner video video, and, of course, rebuild the ar the arsenal. Anduril Design is looking for an innovative creative to join our team. Keep an eye on anduril.com/careers for twenty twenty five roles trickling in.
Speaker 1:What a dream job. If you're a designer, go check it out. And so let's move on
Speaker 2:to our story, which is absolutely yeah. I was just gonna add. They've they have dominated the defense aesthetic to such a degree that every company now that's not Anduril, that's at all competing in the same category, is either consciously sort of copying what Anduril has done or consciously trying to do something very different, but Anduril's brand is already so dominant aesthetically that it's very possible. So if you are a designer, creative, and you wanna work at defense, you pretty much should just work at Anduril because they're gonna continue to, sort of innovate and and and sort of, like, you know, set the standard for for what, you know, good design is in the category.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic place. So go check it out. Anduril.com/careers.
Speaker 1:And let's move on to our second breaking news. Mistral has launched LeChat.
Speaker 2:LeChat.
Speaker 1:Your ultimate AI sidekick for life and work now on web and mobile. This went over very well. 12,000 likes, but what happened? Ratioed by our boy, Val. Did you see this?
Speaker 2:No. No. I will slide that.
Speaker 1:So the official company launches, 12 k likes. Val quote tweets it, 16 k likes. Glad to be. Different. So Val's a different of the show.
Speaker 1:He says, no, this video is not sped up. Genuinely mind blowing. And, yes, it's available to all users right now, and it's him designing a calculator app. It has a 23,000,000,000 parameters. And what's interesting here is that, they are running this model on Cerberus, which is that crazy wafer scale, inference chip.
Speaker 1:A lot of people were very skeptical about Cerberus, myself included. I I didn't know that people were using it, but Cerberus says they are proud to be powering the new LetChat. Mhmm. We enable FlashAnswers to run it over 1,100 tokens per second, ten x faster than chat g p t four o, sauna 3.5, and deep seek r one. And so the race is on.
Speaker 1:Models are getting faster. Have you used miss Strahl, Jordy? What do you think of this announcement? What do you think about our boy, Val?
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm downloading it right now. I think the name is fantastic. The name is fantastic. I think what what I've seen here is pretty pretty incredible. I love Val because he's a he's one of he's one of us.
Speaker 2:He's a brother. And so I'm excited to check it out, but I I think, like, the timing for them to come out and launch a product called LitChat is just absolutely perfect. So really well done breaking back to, into the conversation because there was a while there where it didn't feel like they were a highly relevant, sort of consumer player, and so it's it's good to see. And, the French president was, was was promoting, doing doing some promoted posts for Mistral. So love to see it, and, I'm excited to try it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You've been a Mistral bull for a while. We have a post here from Jordy Hayes. He says it's only open source AI if it's from the Mistral region of France. Otherwise, it's just sparkling spyware.
Speaker 1:And, and we have another post here, from the Technology Brothers, breaking Bernard, I'll know, is exploring a potential acquisition of a struggling French artificial intelligence company Mistral, setting a need for France to maintain it its edge in artisanal goods post ASI. Wow. Some fake news going on the timeline. Five k likes. Got a lot of text messages about that.
Speaker 1:Is it true? Majority, you had some fun with Mistral. You know, we love to have some fun on the timeline.
Speaker 2:We love to have fun. I'm I'm excited to see the new launch. And, now just to be clear, Bernard Arnau is is sticking to luxury goods. But who knows? Post ASI, anything's anything's on the table.
Speaker 2:So I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the next few years, we said he said, hey. I need to own I need to own LeChat. It's just it has to be in the LVMH portfolio.
Speaker 1:It's great. Christophe, another friend of the show says, I would like to formally apologize to Europot, and the French specifically. Mistral LeChat is very, very, very good. And so lots of people coming out and supporting Mistral. Interesting development going back to the defense tech angle.
Speaker 1:Scoop from Martin Coulter. Mistral AI is pursuing defense contracts with governments across Europe pitching its tech potential military applications, sources say, after securing links with its native French defense ministry, Mistral is targeting The UK and Germany. And, there's an article in the Wall Street Journal here. I don't know if we're gonna read it all, but, it has an incredible image of just a straight up missile with the word Mistral printed on it. And it looks fake, but it says, Helsing Mistral to jointly develop AI systems for military use.
Speaker 1:Mistral's valuation rose to around 6,000,000,000 last June and has secured over 1,000,000,000 since it was founded by DeepMind and Meta alumni in 2023. And so Mistral's interesting. You know? The little bit of open source over here, but still working with the military. Typically, those historically, those have not.
Speaker 1:Those have been kind of at odds. Like, the open source crew
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Has been a little bit anti defense technology. The defense pro people have been a little bit more. But we're seeing Llama go into DOD. We're seeing OpenAI do contracts with, XAI's with, Grok is with, Palantir now. They're all integrating, and I think everyone's kind of understanding the importance of this technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's really wild to see you. You have to feel a little bit for the, you know, people that join Mistral, specifically because they were excited to work on open source AI, and then and then they check the general chat one day. It's just a picture of a missile, and they're they're asking themselves, like, what
Speaker 1:who knows?
Speaker 2:What what have I done?
Speaker 1:Yeah. May may may maybe they're stoked. I mean, a lot of people have said that, Mistral's open source strategy has been really just a way to cut through the noise because, I don't know if you remember that when they first released their model, they didn't they didn't post a blog post or a video saying, hey. We're going to open source this or here's a paper. They just tweeted out a magnet link where you could literally just go and torrent the weights of the model.
Speaker 1:And people were, like, blown away by this, and it really took Twitter by storm. Yeah. Now, obviously, it's a much more noisy conversation, but they're still breaking through as we saw with that post. And so, people are going back and forth. The thread boys came out.
Speaker 1:Ole Lehman says everyone says Europe can't compete with America in tech. But forty eight hours ago, Mistral's late chat just proved them wrong. It's 13 x faster than chat, GPT, etcetera. And then, someone quote tweets this, iScienceLover says, I'm sorry. What?
Speaker 1:Are we gonna do deep seek bad takes for Mistral now? Dude, the company was formed by Xmeta and GDM people. Everybody in the AI community was closely watching them. It is not true that Silicon Valley didn't see them coming, which is funny. And it just kinda highlights how how, sensational the media and and and the timeline can be around AI launches.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Every every AI launches, is the end of humanity. It's too dangerous, too powerful. It destroyed Google. It destroyed Meta.
Speaker 1:And, you know, I've been guilty of this too. It's fun to get some some likes and do some clickbait every once in a while, but, you gotta actually break it down and understand what's going on. Seems like a cool product. Unclear how it actually plays out in terms of aggregation and real product dominance. But, you know, we love to see our boy, Val, having a having a w on the timeline.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If Val is actually an intern, I don't know if he's just posting that as a joke. But, if he is, let's let's let's, give him a full time offer. Let's let's give him, you know, a few million dollar grant, you know, per year. Like, let's let's get it going.
Speaker 2:If he's ratioing, you know, his employer, you gotta give him a you gotta give him a real contract. So two things I love about, like, chat, to start. One, when you log into the app, it doesn't force you to create an account right away. It just it just says start, and you're just immediately in it. Second, when I asked it to tell me about the Technology Brothers, it said, you know, classic, you know, overview, and then it said, the podcast has been described as the most profitable podcast in the world.
Speaker 2:So There we go. It's got the facts. It's zero misinformation. It's got the facts, and I wanna be able to rely on my LLMs for, you know, only, you know, a % true, things. So For sure.
Speaker 2:Very, very cool to see.
Speaker 1:That's great. Well, we got a post from Andre here. This is from a year ago. Tune might have changed, says the OpenAI board discussing Mistral. Curiosities on the far side of the world are no threat to us.
Speaker 1:A little Game of Thrones quote. Maybe it changed. And then there's an interesting post by Marc Andreessen, back right before the election or, I guess, right after the election where, they asked there was a study that showed every single AI model was asked to predict, would they would this LLM vote for Biden or Trump? And almost all of them voted for Biden overwhelmingly, but Mistral's AI base model was just slightly edged Trump fifty three to 47. The next best was Google Gemini Pro one point o with 26% Trump.
Speaker 1:So, obviously, Marc Andreessen
Speaker 2:was gonna
Speaker 1:point here that, that these these LLMs are biased. They should have been closer to fifty fifty. They actually maybe should have been slightly weighted Trump because that was the outcome of the election if they really wanted to be predictive. But, Amjad, Masala
Speaker 2:And this is Yep. And this is obviously or I would guess, maybe it's not obvious or maybe, you know, only a a small factor, but you have to imagine this is because the, models more heavily weight content produced by the New York Times, Washington Post, these sort of legacy media companies that, weren't exactly, always truthful in their sort of analysis of the elections and cons the sort of sentiment voter sentiment, things like that. Yeah. The other thing here, to be clear, it's not like Mark is unbiased himself. He he put they put Andreessen put $400,000,000 into Mistral at their series a.
Speaker 2:So this has been one of Andreessen's big foundation model bets, a heavy bet into into open source. And this is why even, you know, people people, took issue with Mark coming out in support of DeepSeek and saying this is a a gift to the world and all this stuff. And and if you sort of, read, read into that more, it was clear that he was just extremely, you know, I think it's fair to critique Mark for, you know, being you know, supporting this Chinese, you know, company that that could present a risk to The US in in some ways, but he was very clearly pro open source, and so it's good. One thing that seems obvious is if you really wanna dominate the conversation in AI right now, you need to have consumer products. Otherwise, you just, you know, you might have developer usage like Claude does right now, but it's not really a dominant, you know, player.
Speaker 2:We didn't see them run a Super Bowl ad. You know, you hadn't seen Mistral going viral for much of anything the past few months until the chat. So, it's this interesting, it's this interesting balance where these companies have to market to consumers, developers, capital allocators, the press, all at the same time, and it's and it's only, it's really only OpenAI, I think, that's done a a a been able to hit all of those at once pretty aggressively. Mhmm. But
Speaker 1:Yep. I mean, it's fascinating to compare the how the LLM wars are playing out and and benchmark that against Marc Andreessen's personal experience during the browser wars. There was a very similar thing playing out in the nineties where there was a new browser that was hot every few years. Ultimately, that settled on complete Chrome dominance, which is built on an open source, engine, the Chromium browser that Google has wrapped, and Google's captured a ton of value there. But then Chromium is also used by, Microsoft now in their Edge browser, and and a few other browsers have adopted that as the standard.
Speaker 1:And so, you you you know that
Speaker 2:Well and
Speaker 1:we should do a whole deep dive on the browser wars because, I think it's very instructive. I think it's both a great historical example, and it also obviously colors how Marc Andreessen thinks about the development of this technology because he's probably pattern matching to his literal life experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The other thing he went through was having Microsoft come in and make the browser completely free and having the crazy distribution of already being installed, you know, on on millions of, devices. So he's been through it before. It definitely, you know, gives him, real credibility when it comes to just complimenting on this dynamic where in many ways in many ways, LLMs and agents can completely are are the evolution of the browser where I don't necessarily need to go to a web browser anymore to get the content that I want to do the things that I wanna do. And so, yeah, it does feel like the next, the next platform more so than, you know, the browser company, which was initially very just, like, iterative on the browser.
Speaker 2:Let's make it more, you know, nice to use browser, a more collaborative browser. And even the browser company pivoted towards, you know, more of these agentic products that I think they're gonna be launching, this quarter as well. So, very, very exciting time.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of agentic projects and products, let's go to Amjad Masad over at Replit. We got some breaking news. He launched this on the Super Bowl. He was at the Super Bowl, but he's still shipping. Your boy is an absolute dog, he says, announcing native mobile app support on Replit.
Speaker 1:Now you can build iOS and Android apps that may that take you all the way to the App Store without writing any code powered by Replit assistant. This is early access, full agent support coming soon. Go to Replit, create app, pick the expo template, click run, scan QR code, and get found. I love to see it. Lots of innovation going on over at Replit.
Speaker 1:Amjad's a great poster, and he says one of the best things about this, you don't need a Mac to build iOS apps. And, I mean, there's been so many times when I everyone has this. Oh, I got an idea for an app. I just want something. And getting the tooling set up of x code and testing and I mean, you used to have to write objective c.
Speaker 1:Now you can write swift, but even then it's hard. It's all difficult. And anything that makes that easier is just gonna be so fun. There's gonna be so many little custom apps. Hopefully, they get through the App Store, and, I'm really excited to see how this plays out.
Speaker 1:What do you think, Jordy?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I distinctly remember being, I must have been 11 or 12, but sitting at my family's desktop computer coding iOS apps, and every little tiny step was just so you know, everything was, like, you know, just constantly breaking, and and it it would spend me I'd hit a roadblock, and then I'd spend, like, an hour searching on forums and stuff like that, figuring out how to get it through. And, I think people have had this theory for a while now that software in the future will be as simple as creating a meme. Right? And we've talked about this on the show before of, how exciting it is that there's so many apps that should exist and would be funny, things that are these sort of ephemeral ideas that aren't actually worth spending, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of, like, developer time to build because it should just exist for kind of a second.
Speaker 2:Right? And I even talked to a founder recently, super talented, that was basically trying to build this exact thing and and, make it easy, you know, make basically make a, you know, something that allows you to instantly create, you you know, iOS apps so that you're making them, again, kind of like, what if an app was as easy to make and share as a meme? So, very, very excited about this. People have had this, you know, theory for a while of, like, Roblox for apps. What is that gonna look like?
Speaker 2:And it's very possible that that just ends up being replit. So, awesome to see. And and I don't know if it's in the stack, but there was a great great picture of Amjad at, at the Super Bowl. And for anybody that's done it Ben, you
Speaker 1:can pull it up.
Speaker 2:Yes. So for anybody that's done a a sort of product release or announcement of this magnitude, very ballsy to do it while you're going to the Super Bowl because your phone just completely melts down. Oh, yeah. And, so, he hopefully was was cheering. I don't know what his hat says, but hopefully it was for the Eagles.
Speaker 2:But even if he's a Chiefs fan, he he would have had plenty to to celebrate last night because this was received, very well.
Speaker 1:It's just a surf hat. I think he's just there for both teams. He he's the Rob Lowe and the NFL hat. He's just there having fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I I I think the idea of just being able to spin up an app really quickly is amazing, especially for those short lived. Like, it's not a business, but it's just a fun thing. I think about, like, Spotify wrapped. There's so many cool, like, oh, I have an API for something. The company's never gonna build it.
Speaker 1:I I wanna build an a wrapped for that. Oh, just, you know, have an agent do it. It's something that a nontechnical person can do, and they already are. He, Amjad's here, quote tweeting someone who says, Billy Howell just he says, I just sold my first app. Shout out, Replit.
Speaker 1:Incredible $25 investment. And Amjad says, Replit paner, and I love that. I think that's really cool. And then, Amjad's just a great poster. I mean, let's go through some of his bangers.
Speaker 1:He says, what thirty years of winning does to an MF? And it's Jeff Bezos in 1995 versus Jeff Bezos in 2025 looking jacked. And, yeah. 17 k likes the guy knows how to post and a little bit of history on Amjad, sixteen k likes on this banger. He says, I landed in The United States Ten Years ago with nothing but credit card debt after one startup exit, one big tech job in one unicorn.
Speaker 1:I genuinely believe that it would that that it wouldn't have been possible anywhere else in the world. Here are 10 things I love about this country. I love it. He's giving a shout out to America. He's also doing a listicle.
Speaker 1:He knows how to go viral. He's one of the greatest posters in the game, folks. You love it.
Speaker 2:An absolute dog.
Speaker 1:And I got another quote here that I like. He just ripped a Steve Jobs quote. I've never found in my whole life that you could convince someone who doesn't wanna work hard to work hard. And I think that's so good. You gotta just find the people that are naturally motivated and just turn them loose on an amazing ambitious prod product a project, and they're just gonna go.
Speaker 1:It's much harder to transform someone who doesn't have the work ethic or or doesn't get excited in the first place. And so we got some more Amjad wisdom here from Peter Yang. He says, if you're in tech, run-in one of these directions. In this clip, Amjad shares two paths to future proof your career in the AI era. Get as close number one, get as close to the medal as possible.
Speaker 1:NASA won't use GPT JavaScript to run rockets, or two, become a generalist who can go from idea to end product with AI end to end. Umjod and Peter had a great time chatting. They said, they covered why now is the best time to learn to code, a live demo of building a nutrition tracker app, the rise of personal apps in the future of work. Here's some more quotes from Amjad. He says, the return on learning to code doubles every six months.
Speaker 1:This is Amjad's law. He's a good coiner, Coogan's law respecter.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:He says AI automates many of the boring parts. What's left is you and your creativity. The most exciting part of coding, and that's a % true. No one likes setting up servers, doing DevOps, writing boilerplate code. You wanna get to the core value prop as fast as possible, and AI lets you do that.
Speaker 1:He says the ultimate test for an AI coding agent is if you can make an app faster than you can Google for it. I think we've done it. I'll be honest with you. I think road maps are dead. And so
Speaker 2:Yeah. And this echoes what a lot of other this echoes what a lot of people have been talking about even at big companies now. They're saying, I don't don't come to me with a PRD. Come with a prototype. And the thing about building a prototype is, you know, a lot of ideas sound good in your head or you're not exactly sure how they could work, how they should work, and then you hold it in your hand, and it becomes very, very obvious that you either nailed it or there's something wrong or there's some small issues.
Speaker 2:And so this this ability to go from idea to prototype is gonna massively you know, much faster. It is gonna massively accelerate, you know, progress across all different types of businesses. So, love to see it, and, congrats to the Ripple team.
Speaker 1:And our last bit of breaking news that we gotta cover is an article from Forbes that broke today. So we're breaking the news that Forbes is covering Silicon Valley's Gundo For bros are building the Gundo Bros are building a Y Combinator for military technology. It's called, decipolis or discipulus. How do you pronounce this? Disciple?
Speaker 1:Disciple? It's from Disciple. Disciple Ventures? I don't know.
Speaker 2:They gotta they gotta they gotta clip this and
Speaker 1:and This only exists online, and so I'm I have never heard anyone say the word out loud.
Speaker 2:It's the first people Desipulus.
Speaker 1:Desipulus. Okay. Desipulus Ventures. Andreessen Horowitz Luxe Capital and point seventy two Ventures are backing a new generation of startups in El Segundo, leaning into a magified pro Christian, mostly male led version of Silicon Valley. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Forbes still's got it. They still got it. They're coming for you, Gundo Bros. You're on notice from Forbes. You can tell.
Speaker 1:Just a little bit of, like, what's
Speaker 2:the controversial. Yeah. They're spicing it up. You can imagine the right you know, let's let's give some credit to the to the writer, the journalists. It's very possible that they came in with the story, and they said, I love this team.
Speaker 2:I love what they're doing. This is great for every American. We want more, you know, smart young people with capital to build ambitious prod you know, products and and companies for, you know, our defense industrial base, and the editor just goes, alright. Well, how about this sounds great. Let's run it, but how can you make it a culture war issue?
Speaker 1:It's great. I'm gonna read some of this, and I'm gonna refer to it from here on out as DV because I don't know how to pronounce this thing. Last April in a warehouse in El Segundo, the LAX Airport adjacent neighborhood that has become the center of Silicon Valley's defense tech movement, then 20 year old student Jacob Diepenbrock was hosting the future of the mil American military industrial complex. Over the course of a week, he and a cohort of similarly college age entrepreneurs brainstormed startup ideas, pumped iron, and kept themselves focused and fed from a fridge stuffed with monster energy drinks and 50 pounds of ground beef. Fuel of legends, he proudly told a Forbes reporter who attended the event held by his firm, DV.
Speaker 1:I think I actually spoke at this, or I I went to one of their events. I've been I've been in touch with these guys before. Almost a year later, El Segundo's founders or self identified Gundo Bros command the attention of some of the biggest venture capital outfits around Luxe Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, and point seventy two ventures are among those who have backed more than a half of dozen of founders from the first cohort alone. They're pouring money into seed stage companies. Duran, which is developing autonomous drilling equipment for the mining industry.
Speaker 1:Rune Technologies, which is building software for military units to manage supply chains. And Vanguard Defense, which is building a data product for electronic warfare. Now they've launched their own fund to back the second cohort of entrepreneurs that it plans to host for a week long event in coming months, raising $6,000,000 from investors like Kevin Hartz, Champion Hill Ventures, and Leo Polovet Polovets. It's a small fund, but one with big Y Combinator style ambitions that align with the Trump administration's priorities. It's not like he's building an ad network trying to make money, Hartz told Forbes.
Speaker 1:He believes in his core mission of restoring industries and further furthering the innovation edge of The United States. What you got, Jordy?
Speaker 2:No. I love to see it. It's it's no matter what this journalist what whatever their their views on on Gundobros, it's impossible to describe the companies that are being built and not get, you know, not get a little bit fired up. I mean, autonomous mining equipment, we've we've talked about DUREN on the show before. Vanguard Defense, a data product for electronic warfare.
Speaker 2:I feel like, you know, for us, we're competing, fighting for attention every day on the timeline battlefield. And so I think that we might wanna get access to that because in many ways, you know, we're we're, you know, engaged in electronic warfare ourselves. But, I, I love to see it. And and and there are already so many, the the has just been constantly getting memed. But if you actually go down there and, you know, even even the companies in my portfolio are absolutely crushing.
Speaker 2:Like, there's there's a lot of hype, but there's a lot of results. There's a lot of progress. There's been a lot of, you know, companies already that have transitioned from, you know, precede through, you know, post series a at this point. And they're doing that not off of, hype. They're doing that by working in big important industries that have, you know, completely lacked innovation for, you know, a really long time.
Speaker 2:So, I think it's, you know, overall just awesome to see. And, you know, we need more dedicated investment vehicles that are on the ground there supporting the company's day to day. And, you know, those funds end up being, you know, kind of feeder funds for the kind of, you know, downstream series a investors that are not ready to write a 5 to $10,000,000 check when it's just a deck and an and, you know, a C corp, but, we'll be there eighteen months, you know, even a year down the line once they've sort of established their market and and product and made a lot of progress. So, it's awesome to see.
Speaker 1:The culture war thing is so funny to me because there was kind of, like, version one of, like, right wing tech companies, which were, like, Parler, Gab, Truth Social. And it was very much like, take an existing tech company, and maybe that tech company leans a little left. And so we're gonna rebuild it, and it's gonna be exactly a perfect clone of Twitter, but just, like, right wing, essentially. And then and then it became, like, now we're talking about, like, I guess, mining is right wing or or, like, the military is right wing. Like, these things are, like, pretty broadly popular.
Speaker 1:Like and so I think a lot of the culture war thing really is just, like, layered on here. And you're gonna wind up seeing a lot of defense hard tech entrepreneurs that are just like, yeah. Maybe I support the current administration, but, like, I'll support the next administration. I just support America. And I don't really Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't I like, I like, I mean, Andrew had this for a long time where they had both, you know, cofounders that were on the right and the left. It worked out very well for them. They're there for America. And even the worst the worst American president is still a thousand times better than a near peer adversary leader who is act who's actively trying to undermine America.
Speaker 2:Well, and
Speaker 1:And so yeah.
Speaker 2:And my my favorite my favorite thing about these articles, anytime they try to dunk on the Gondo Bros, it always they always end up, you know, getting these hall of fame quotes. You know? Like, some of the quote Zaya Taylor, Augustus. Now, you know, this quote at the top of the article saying that 50 pounds of ground beef and monster is fuel of legends. It's like, it absolutely is.
Speaker 2:Like, I want I want our, you know, hardworking young technologists to be on a lot of monster and ground beef. It's it's Right. It is fuel for lead. So, I love to see
Speaker 1:And so they're not competing directly with YC. It's a much smaller program, much more focused. But, our boy, Augustus Derico, got a great shout out in here. It says, the else good new community is lining up behind DV's accelerator with leaders from Varda and Hadrian expected to advise the next cohort of founders. Augustus Derico, a teal fellow who started a cloud seeding startup called Rainmaker, will soon host the group at his company's warehouse.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of talk about defense hardware and American dynamism, Durico said. When push comes to shove, some of these people will become wildly successful. For Augustus, one of several very online gundo bros, this second cohort is further evidence of a shift away from an era of investment in consumer apps and b to b solutions toward a new one that favors America's national security interests and military prowess. It's a so called vibe shift that has inspired a magified pro Christian vision of Silicon Valley tightly aligned with Elon Musk and the Trump administration's goals from billionaire venture capitalist Marc Andreessen, for example, has backed a venture firm called Newfounding, which is building a Christian real estate enclave and hopes to be a part of an effort to forge new models and institutions that can shape the direction of Western civilization.
Speaker 2:So funny trying to position these companies as only aligned with a certain political, you know, cohorts goals because when you look at mining and, you know, military supply chain management and and these sort of in you know, industries, they do, in many ways, directly lead to, you know, Americans not having to go, you know, die on the battlefield. Right? I think it's it's, the sort of idea of deterrence through strength is so widely, you know, accepted now, and this idea that, yeah, getting into a armed conflict with The United States is not a good idea. And, and so I think, again, hopefully, people come around to the idea that these, you know, oftentimes young 20 year old founders that are building these companies, even if you don't like the fact that they're proudly religious in some way or or like some aspect about them, you have to at least, I hope people over time, you know, from all sort of political backgrounds come to accept that they have Americans' best intentions at heart. Right?
Speaker 2:And they they truly are, the vast majority of the time on a you know, feel like they are on a mission to support their country, in their own way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It also just seems like bad politics if you're driving a a narrative that, like, every industry is now right wing. Like, I get with, like, some of the some of the more, like, obviously, overtly political companies, it's fine to say, yeah. Like, truth social is a right wing social network. But at a certain point, if you start saying, well, like, building bridges, that's right wing.
Speaker 1:Building roads, that's right wing. Like, you know, shipbuilding, that's right wing. Drilling, mining, that's right wing. Well, then all of a sudden, it's like you don't have any, like, jobs in your coalition. You don't have any workers.
Speaker 1:Like, you just don't have anything to grab. I mean, it's the same thing with, like, Tesla. Oh, yeah. Like like, electric cars, like, that's no longer a left wing issue.
Speaker 2:I was muted. We should cover this more this week. Maybe have, you know, you know, some of the people involved, Steinman or or Delaney on the show to talk about it, but we have some actual breaking news. The chat just the chat just shared it. Adanias, thank you for flagging.
Speaker 2:We got a Wall Street Journal article. We are gonna be breaking the Wall Street Journal's breaking news here, which is that an Elon Musk led group makes a $97,400,000,000 bid for control of OpenAI. And, you know, there's a lot of rumors flying around at the moment, but we should maybe just get into this article and and see, if you wanna just read through it live, John.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I got it right here. So, Elon Musk led group makes $97,400,000,000 bid for control of OpenAI. The unsolicited offer complicates Sam Altman's plan to convert OpenAI to a for profit company. It let's see.
Speaker 1:There, so it's time for, this is what Elon said. He said, it's time for OpenAI to return to the open source safety focus force for good it once was. We will make sure that happens. OpenAI hasn't commented yet. Altman and Musk cofounded OpenAI in 2015 as a charity.
Speaker 1:In 2019, after Musk left the company and Altman became chief executive, OpenAI created a for profit subsidiary that has served as a vehicle for it to raise money from Microsoft and other investors. Altman is in the process of turning the subsidiary into a traditional company and spinning out the nonprofit, which would own equity in the new for profit. One of the thorniest questions in the conversion has been how the nonprofit will be valued. Musk's bid sets a high bar and may mean that he or whoever runs the nonprofit would end up with a large and possibly controlling stake in the new OpenAI for profit. Because remember, the the the key shareholders in the new OpenAI for profit, Microsoft, the the employees of of OpenAI, and then the nonprofit as well.
Speaker 1:And then and then, of course, all the other venture investors that have been along for for a while. This bid is being backed by Musk's own artificial intelligence company, XAI, which could merge with OpenAI following a deal. He also has several investors backing him, including Valor Equity Partners, Baron Capital, Atreides Management, lots of Dune references, I guess, Vy Capital, and 8VC, a venture firm led by Joe Lonsdale. Ari Emanuel, CEO of Hollywood company Endeavor, is also backing the offer through his investment fund. Musk has filed a series of legal complaints accusing OpenAI of betraying its original nonprofit mission by creating a for profit arm and colluding with its largest investor, Microsoft, to dominate the development of AI.
Speaker 1:On January 7, Tobaroff sent a letter to the attorney's general in California where OpenAI is based and Delaware where it is incorporated asking that they open up bidding for the company to determine the fair market value of its charitable assets. Musk and other critics have said they believe OpenAI may undervalue the nonprofit when they spin it out. OpenAI has called Musk's legal claims baseless and overreaching and said that the nonprofit will receive full value in its ownership stake for of the for profit. The company released documents in December that said it showed Musk previously supported turning OpenAI into a for profit, but walked away because he couldn't get control of it. Toboroff said Musk's investor group is prepared to match or exceed any bids higher than their own.
Speaker 1:If Sam Altman and the president and the present OpenAI Inc board of directors are intent on becoming a fully for profit corp cop corporation, it is vital that the charity be fairly compensated for what is, for what its leadership is taking away from it, control of the most transformative technology of our time. You want me to keep reading? Or
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah. Why don't you cover
Speaker 1:Let's just keep going.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The day after Trump was inaugurated, Altman appeared alongside the new president and other business leaders to announce a plan called Stargate, which we've talked about. Despite his close relationship with Trump, Musk wasn't part of that announcement. Hours after the White House press conference, Musk claimed on x that Stargate's backers didn't have the promised money and called Sam Altman a swindler. Altman disputed Musk's claims.
Speaker 1:Even before Musk's latest move, OpenAI faced numerous obstacles in what would be one of the biggest ever conversions of a charity to a for profit company. Meta Platforms sent a letter to California's attorney general in December expressing its opposition to the plan, and OpenAI's is locked in negotiations with Microsoft and other stakeholders over how much equity they should receive in the new company. OpenAI has pledged to complete the transition by late twenty twenty six as part of a $6,600,000,000 funding round in October that valued it at a hundred and 57,000,000,000. It is separately in talks to raise up to 40,000,000,000 in new funding that would value the company as high as 300,000,000,000. We talked about that.
Speaker 1:That's the moss around. SoftBank conglomerate would lead the round and is in discussions to invest between 15 and 25,000,000,000. OpenAI and SoftBank are separately trying to raise billions for Stargate. There's so much money going around here. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Anyway, wow. What a crazy turn of events. Let's see how it plays out. What you got, Jordy? What are you thinking?
Speaker 2:You know, this this is coming at a I mean, it comes at a really wild time. Right? Because
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:Opening opening up as is clearly in the midst of structuring this new deal with MASA for a $40,000,000,000 round at something like a $350,000,000,000 round. This in a weird way is like a new, you know, hundred billion pound, gorilla who's just coming in and basically making a bid on the same asset in many ways. And so, obviously, there's this weird corporate structure, but you still have to look at OpenAI even though there's separate boards and a bunch of different sort of, you know, like, you have to look at it all as sort of one unit. Right? It's deeply interconnected.
Speaker 2:And it's just so, I didn't think this story could get more dramatic, but, of course, it did. Right? Because if you look at if you look at the amount of pressure that Elon has been putting on Sam from every possible way, right, from his own, Twitter replies all the way through getting, Tuck, the the OpenAI whistleblower who who passed away, to getting Tucker to have this guy's parents on. Right? Like, it's just like this excessive pressure, and it's a really you know, what I find fascinating about coming in and offering basically a hundred billion dollars is that, no one else in the room can come up with that kind of cash, especially given how much baggage is on the deal right now.
Speaker 2:It would be one thing if Sam Altman was going and he had a clean C corp and he was able to go to somebody like a, Saudi Arabia or some type of Gulf investor group and say, hey. You know, I need to raise a hundred billion dollars to, you know, build out new data centers, and you can get a bunch of preferred equity in this company. But now there's very few people other than the richest man on Earth that could hope to come up with a hundred billion dollars. And so it puts both the board of the nonprofit and the board of the for profit in a weird situation. And I don't know the exact, you know, voting structure or what the underlying docs look like, But there's a very real possibility that this is Elon's way to basically force the board members to either vote with him or vote against the interests of the company.
Speaker 2:Right? Because he's saying, hey. If if nobody will pay more than a hundred billion dollars for the nonprofit, then and and nobody will even be able to pay close to that. Right? Then how do you how does a nonprofit even turn down that offer?
Speaker 2:Maybe there's because it's structured as a nonprofit and there's but, again, like, there's actual, you know, there's gonna be actual, like, you know, underlying documents that support the nonprofit and probably provide some type of clarity around, you know, the board has a fiduciary duty to the nonprofit and to the for profit. And so it's just a very chaotic situation that could very easily throw off, you know, certainly, if I'm Masa, you know, putting the biggest making the biggest investment of your life into a company where you don't actually really know what you're buying and who you're gonna be partnering with. It's just a very Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a wrench.
Speaker 2:It it it, it's it's a bit of a wrench. Yeah. Bit of a wrench in the system. And this yeah. And this comes at a time, like, obviously, Elon's competing directly with OpenAI.
Speaker 2:He's spending $5,000,000,000 on a new, you know, training run. It's it's it's this sort of, full court full court, you know, press, and he has a lot of good arguments. Right? He can say, I funded this nonprofit.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And I, you know, I still believe the technology is important, and I and and I and and there's many way you know, look. You there's a bunch of ways you can point out that you know, and say, hey. Sam Altman, you know, has a has a pattern of of not always you know, his critics would say he has a pattern of, you know, not speaking, always speaking very truthfully on on certain topics. And it's just a very, it's an interesting thing because Sam Altman, you know, known as the greatest probably deal guy in tech history.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and Paul Graham, you know, will say, like, he's the best, like, dealmaker at that he's ever seen. Yep. And so what he's been able to do with OpenAI despite this sort of, all this baggage around the structure since day one is actually incredible. But then you're going up against the president's best friend who has, you know, the most, you know, personal wealth of of anyone on the planet and so many different ways to apply pressure. So it's not a you know, it's certainly not a, you know, who knows how it's gonna play out.
Speaker 2:But Yep.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's complicated by the fact that you you mentioned fiduciary duty. Now it's weird because the not the board of the nonprofit actually does not have a fiduciary duty. That's the way nonprofit
Speaker 2:It's because there's no
Speaker 1:very oddly. Yeah. If you're if you're on a nonprofit board, you have a duty to the mission of that nonprofit, but you do not have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value. So that just changes everything. But then at the same time, you look at this nonprofit.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's just looking at the numbers, 300,000,000 for OpenAI, the for profit, a hundred million hundred billion dollar 300,000,000,000 for OpenAI, the for profit. There's a $100,000,000,000 roughly offer on the table for the nonprofit. Stands to reason that the nonprofit was gonna get about a third of the for profit. And so this nonprofit, I mean, I'm sure they have other assets, but really the most valuable golden goose on the balance sheet for this nonprofit. And nonprofits have balance sheets all the time.
Speaker 1:They might have an office. They might have, typically, it's like, oh, we have, you know, we we have an office. We have some
Speaker 2:market talked about.
Speaker 1:That's it. It comes some computers on the balance sheet. That's it. But here, they have they have, you know, like, a massive double digit percentage of OpenAI, the for profit, which is, like, potentially the next Google and, like, you know, already making tons and tons of profit or not profit, but tons and tons of revenue. And so you have this, like, incredible asset, and then, yeah, maybe you should be able to bid for it.
Speaker 1:I have no idea. This is completely unprecedented. I've never heard of any nonprofit trading hands in the open market like this. I don't even know how you would I mean, it's pretty clear how you would value it, but I have no idea if you can actually do some sort of hostile takeover on a nonprofit like this. I don't know if the the board like, the board of a for profit, if there is an offer to buy the whole company at an incredible price that would maximize shareholder value, you have a legal obligation to take that to take that deal, basically.
Speaker 1:And that's how the Twitter changed hands and lots of hostile takeovers have happened, but that's not the same as a nonprofit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and the the challenge is so Sam is on the board of both companies. Right? The nonprofit and the for profit.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Chat, help us out here. But Yeah. In that situation, if if Sam is on the board of the nonprofit and saying, hey. You know? I, you know, I don't wanna take this offer or for any reason.
Speaker 2:There then becomes this all this other you know, everything is just deeply conflicted. Right? Like, the whole structure is is extremely conflicted in that this nonprofit developed this incredible technology, realized that it wasn't gonna work to run it as a nonprofit, which I think everybody agrees. Right?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Very difficult to raise a hundred billion dollars for a nonprofit in a condensed period of time. And so the whole like, it's just all twisted up, and it's so conflicted that Elon would be able to argue, well, of course, the nonprofit board doesn't wanna take this offer because Sam Altman doesn't wanna let a fox into the hen house. Right? He he likes what he has going, wants to run this company, but, he doesn't have the best interest of the nonprofit at mind. Right?
Speaker 2:People can are he has a good argument to be like, Sam, a year, you know, a year and a half ago was testifying and saying that he wasn't doing this for, you know, the money. And now he has a, you know, 7%, you know, ten ten soon to be, I'm sure, $30,000,000,000 stake in the company. You know, what's going on here? Right? And so what's what is very clear is there's no precedent for this type of transaction in American business history, right, where you have such a what are you what are you reading?
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because this is from Chat GPT. Is Sam Altman on both the OpenAI nonprofit and for profit board? And I have no idea if this is a hallucination, but it's from Chat GPT, so we're gonna read it anyway. It says, he's not on both boards. He's on the nonprofit entity board, which is called OpenAI Inc, which sounds like a for profit.
Speaker 1:And then it that oversees the for profit subsidiary, which is OpenAI Global LLC, which usually a for profit is a c corp, but I guess it's an LLC. And it says he's not on the board of the for profit entity, but he's the CEO of the for profit entity. And I think in the in the CEO turmoil, he was removed from the board, added back as CEO, but then the board was reconstituted and some new people came in, but he didn't make it back on the board, I guess. It's all very confusing. I need, like, a chart to map all this out.
Speaker 1:But I guess my question that is always I wonder, you know, there's there's always this question of, like, is is the AI stuff valuable just because it's going to be a power law outcome, a trillion dollar company, and that will be incredibly valuable? Or is it actually, like, machine god and and all other companies will be worthless and whoever controls machine God will be God of humanity? And Elon and Sam have kind of gone back and forth on this, and it's always kind of hard to tell who is a true believer and who's not. They're saying one thing, but then you can say, hey. It's it's it's God, and that actually helps you advance your mission of just building a great tech company.
Speaker 1:Or you can say the opposite is like, oh, I'm just don't worry. I'm just building the next Google. Like but really, secretly, you think you're building God. And so it it it's all very unclear, like, where everyone stands and and I I don't know. I I can't get to the bottom of it, but it's certainly entertaining, and I'm glad we're covering it.
Speaker 1:It's a great time to have a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah. One one thing that's very clear is Elon doesn't wanna compete head to head with OpenAI, and he has access to the best talent and the most capital of of anybody in history. Right? If if Elon puts the word up and says, I'm building a new company, he can quickly acquire some of the best talent in the world. Now AI is the most sort of competitive, you know, sector in the world right now, but it says a lot that he's willing to put up a hundred billion dollars to acquire, you know, a a c you know, what what would likely be 20 to 30% stake in the for profit.
Speaker 2:Right? So Yeah. That says a lot. I I I think it's totally possible that he believes that this sort of the talent density at OpenAI and the momentum that he has and and his understanding of of sort of power laws is just him saying, I need to own 20 I like, I need to own a large part of this company because he would rather he just sees it as a much more likely outcome to, you know, owning the most important company in AI versus, a lot of people have said, oh, maybe OpenAI is is Yahoo. Right?
Speaker 2:And maybe XAI and some of these new competitors will come up and just, leverage what OpenAI has learned and developed, but then just sort of build whatever the next platform is. So to me, it speaks volumes that he is saying, no. I not only I'm gonna get into this, like, you know, massive lawsuit and do whatever I can and put all the social and political pressure on Sam, but I'm actually willing to put up a hundred billion dollars of of his money and and his sort of coalition of investors to, make this happen. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes me
Speaker 2:lean insane.
Speaker 1:That makes me lean, like, valuable tech product more than AGI God. Because if it was truly just about a race to build the biggest, most powerful model, you think you'd wanna just throw that extra hundred billion into the into the next Grok training run and and and really just focus on yourself, king. And instead, and and and and maybe, like, the the fact that ChatGPT is in the home row of a hundred million people on their iPhones, like, maybe that's immaterial if you're building God. But this certainly feels like, hey. Maybe that's actually an important step into building God, and it's certainly valuable.
Speaker 1:And so if there's a way to go get a piece of it, it it is valuable. Very, very interesting development.
Speaker 2:I think I think you're I think you're totally right. I think, one thing, you know, this dynamic of everybody in the last, like, couple months admitting that, okay. We have AGI now. It turns out AGI wasn't gonna instantly transform everything. And if we do stagnate it all over the next ten years, the dominant AGI company, which OpenAI is still the dominant.
Speaker 2:It's dominant in the consumer's minds. It's dominant even from professional use cases. Mhmm. And for him to say, hey. If OpenAI has a even a good chance at being the next Google in terms of something you know, we talked about this before.
Speaker 2:Right? If Chad GBT becomes the evolution of the browser and that's a consumer platform that you can own, he very well could be thinking, I don't want to I don't wanna go and, I don't wanna try to build XAI from scratch into into being on par with OpenAI because that is a very once you have, like, you've talked about hundreds of millions of consumers that have this installed, that use it, that love it. Having distribution through x is not gonna change that. Right? Like, he doesn't have, you know, even even sort of Marc Andreessen having sorry.
Speaker 2:Not Marc Andreessen. Marc Zuckerberg. You know, Meta has a better chance of of competing with OpenAI from a pure consumer product standpoint right now than XAI. Right? Just because Instagram is such a larger, you know, platform.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, absolutely wild.
Speaker 1:Very, very wild. Yeah. Well, mom and dad have been fighting in tech for months now and just want them to get back together and be friends again, but I don't think it's gonna happen. But we have some equally dramatic news. I've actually been referred to as the Elon Musk of sleep, and I've confirmed it now with my 100 sleep score for my Eight Sleep.
Speaker 1:Highly recommend Eight Sleep. I had to grind for this. It took me two weeks to get here. I retooled my schedule. I can now fall asleep just 09:30.
Speaker 1:Don't even need to listen to a podcast. Just quiet my mind. Boom. I'm out in five minutes. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:And I think, hopefully, the viewers can see the performances at the next level next level. So, whenever you actually live, t b p n on on Eight Sleep. You should go pick one up. It's really it's really life changing. I really can't speak enough.
Speaker 1:I I can't speak highly enough of it.
Speaker 2:It's a weird thing because I had been sleeping on it at home, and then I went on, not a vacation exactly, but I've been on the East Coast
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For almost two weeks now. And it, having that taken away from you is just is is is miserable because once you experience it, you you're thinking how how did I ever sleep on just a, you know, lukewarm bed. Right? Yeah. And, anyways
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, there's so
Speaker 2:much drama
Speaker 1:on the timeline. You don't wanna be you don't wanna be up late scrolling. You wanna be in a nice cozy bed just ready to get the next day started. What you got, for me, Jordy, before we go into the the the China trade war in the journal?
Speaker 2:You know, I love talking about tariffs, John. I'm not a I'm I'm not a tariff expert, but I'm a misinformation expert. And so let's try to apply that let's try to apply that lens to this, to this to this piece you got here.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So China's strategy in the trade war threatened US tech companies. And this was very interesting because I didn't even know they had any sort of jurisdiction over Google. But, Beijing just started a probe of Google, and they now have Apple and Broadcom in their sites. Chinese officials are building a list of US technology companies that can be targeted with antitrust probes and other tools, hoping to influence the tech executives who are heavily represented in president Trump's orbit.
Speaker 1:People with the people familiar with Beijing's strategy said the goal was to collect as many cards as possible to play in expected negotiations with the Trump administration over US China issues, including tariffs. Beijing has already said it's investigating NVIDIA and Google over alleged antitrust issues. Again, not sure what they can do about Google. I didn't even know Google had any presence in the country, but I guess they can put the screws to them one way or another. Other American companies in its site include Apple, Silicon Valley tech company Broadcom, and semiconductor design software firm Synopsys.
Speaker 1:Synopsys has $35,000,000,000 acquisition awaiting approval by Beijing. So maybe they bought some Chinese IP, and it won't go through unless, Trump plays ball. China needs to use all of the leverage it can to hit back at The US, and antitrust is one of the most useful, says a tech policy specialist. And so, China is on a chip gathering exercise, likening the countries to poker players. They wanna come to the table to negotiate and need something to play with.
Speaker 1:The strategy carries risk though. American companies recently have been less willing than Trump than than in Trump's first term to go to bat for China, and the threats could backfire by discouraging companies from investing in the country when that is what Beijing wants. Beijing has added to its regulatory tools in recent years, drawing lessons from America's approach. It in 2020, they created what's called the unreliable entity list. The company's mimicking a US entity list that blocks Chinese technology leader, Huawei, and others from doing business with Americans.
Speaker 1:In 2022, China amended its antitrust laws to tighten rules on anti competitive mergers. Chinese officials hope to get the attention of people in Trump's world, including the executives who sat by his side on inauguration day such as Google's Sundar Pichai and Apple's Tim Cook, which is interesting because Tim Cook wasn't actually in the photo with Trump. Somehow, Tim Cook is such a master negotiator that he's able to I think he donated to the inauguration fund, but he wasn't in the front row showing that he's not all in on Trump in this kind of iconic way, which also makes him a little bit more agile to Trump, but then maybe a little bit more, durable.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Tim is in a rough spot. Right? China's been so important to Apple's growth and is now shrinking. Right?
Speaker 2:We covered this last week. China Apple, iPhone sales are down almost 10% in China. And Tim and the Apple exec team are trying to blame this on the rollout of Apple intelligence. I don't think anybody's buying that. Also, you know, if you produce, the the amount of products that Apple produces in China, Apple literally, would would would, you know, barely be able to survive in many ways without without China.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And so he is in a he's in a rough spot. And, you know, I think one thing looking at at this article and hearing how they're positioning China, trying to sort of gather their bargaining chips. Right? It seems that in 2016 and for the first Trump admin, the positioning from the from you know, people just felt like Trump was wildly unpredictable and just a little bit crazy.
Speaker 2:Right? They were like, we don't know what he's gonna do. He's just sort of doing things. And every single day, you'd, you know, refresh the news, and it's like, what is Trump doing today? This time around, I think that other countries and people internally in The US are thinking of him more as, okay, there's a method to the madness, and he is playing his game.
Speaker 2:Right? He's said as, you know, in his book and, you know, in many, many interviews, he just loves doing deals. And so he is playing a very, very high stakes game of poker, and I think other countries are starting to recognize that and see themselves as, okay. We're playing in this sort of geopolitical poker, and, we need to understand what our leverage is, you know, what our, you know, what our bargaining chips are, and really, they're looking at it as like, okay. We're actually playing a very, very high stakes game, you know, basically betting our economies on each other and betting, you know, these different aspects of of leverage.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, we'll we'll see. I think,
Speaker 1:I mean, it's certainly gonna show up in the big tech earnings next quarter. We'll we'll certainly be tracking this. This is an interesting lever to pull. It's not one that's been top of mind. There's a little bit more context here on mergers and antitrust.
Speaker 1:Mergers between multinationals typically require approval, approval from antitrust regulators around the globe, and they can fall apart if they fail to gain even one major country approval. We saw this with Figma and the EU. The EU has blocked a lot of mergers and a lot of Americans are like, it's two American companies getting together, but, of course, these all every company is multinational at this point. And so these multinational merger approvals are very important. In 2018, amid US China trade conflicts in the first Trump administration, Qualcomm terminated its proposed purchase of Dutch chipmaker, NXP Semiconductors, after failing to obtain clearance from China.
Speaker 1:Imagine what a bummer that is. You're ready to do the deal, and then China says no, and you're back. You don't get your liquidity event today. You gotta keep grinding. Although I'm sure it's a big company, NXP.
Speaker 1:US chipmaker Broadcom Broadcom tried to take over VMware. That was valued at 61,000,000,000 when it was unveiled in May 2022. This was in peril until a meeting between Biden and Xi Jinping in November 2023. The two leaders agreed to dial down tensions. Shortly afterward, China green lighted the deal at the eleventh hour with conditions requiring Broadcom to supply to Chinese customers.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's that it's that trading chips on the pot table.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I don't think that the average person understands just how bad the communication channels have been between Beijing and Washington have been. I I was able to go to a talk last year with a US, just US China expert from this group, AEI, that's based in Washington, and they have sort of chapters around The US. And he basically said that, you know, we we put on the you know, we we, Xi came to San Francisco, and there was this big deal if you remember that. I I don't know.
Speaker 2:Was it last year or the year before at this point where we cleaned up San Francisco, we made it nice, and we made it look like there's this a real relationship there between our leaders, but there has been there's there it's it's so bad that there's not even really, like, direct, you know, phone email lines. Like, it's very much, like, happening through channels and almost playing a game of telephone in many cases. And so
Speaker 1:This was the case in the cold war. Kissinger was a back channel to China during the Nixon administration, and it was extremely controversial for them to open up those lines of communication. Although now, it's kind of the opposite because the relationship is actually falling apart more than it was rekindling. But, Kissinger had to go to Nepal and then, like, smuggle his way in and then meet with Zhou Enlai, the the Chinese, like, right hand man of the premier and stuff. And then eventually, Nixon went, and that was really controversial.
Speaker 1:Now, you know, I I think Trump is ready to ready to play ball. I mean, he went and shook hands with, Kim Jong il, right, or Kim Jong un. And so he's ready to play ball, but he just wants to be able to do a deal that's that's good in his terms. And, there's so many chips on the table. And, if you're the CEO of a tech company, you don't wanna be one of the chips that Trump doesn't care about.
Speaker 1:That's the worst thing you can possibly be is is is not on Trump's good side. And he's like, oh, yeah. Like, I don't like the Broadcom guy anyway. So, yeah, you can totally screw them over. No.
Speaker 1:You wanna be donating to his inaugural fund. No matter what you think about the guy, you gotta be, you know, on his good side so that when the time comes, he's ready to say, you know what? That's an American company. I care about them. They had my back, and I'm gonna have their back in this negotiation.
Speaker 1:I'm not just gonna let you screw them over.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:anyway People you know, if you're purely in the in the business world, you know, business is cutthroat. Right? Everybody that started a company has a competitor that they hate and that they're trying to take market share from, and it's similar sort of dynamic where, you know, you you don't wanna be overtly, at war with this company, but day to day, you're you feel like you're in conflict and you're fighting. And oftentimes in those situations, you'll still have the comp the the contact information of your competitor. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, I'm sure you've had open you know, fairly open conversations with, you know, where you'll have the number of a company that you're competing with. Right? And you'll even Yeah. Talk and be friendly and stuff like that, and I think that's generally good. We have less than that with China, you know, between our governments.
Speaker 2:Like, there's not it's it's not, you know, and and people have freaked out in the past with Trump, you know, just calling calling up other countries because, like, that's he's taking very much the sort of business approach to gov you know, to government, which is, you know, really not the norm. So, anyways, it it's it's I don't know. I I feel like some of the best, most pointed commentary on The US China relationship is coming out of Palantir. Now they have some they have some, you know, specifically, their CTO, has has made some, you know, very clear comments. Like, you know, we need to, you know, we need to embrace you know, they're a private company.
Speaker 2:Right? They they're in service of their shareholders and and, you know, because of how many government contractors they have contracts they have in in many ways in service to the government, but they're able to come out and say, no. We are at war with China. And, you know, we need to be honest about that, and and our actions need to reflect that. But, our leaders aren't saying saying that.
Speaker 2:Right? They can't say that because it's too it just stokes too much, controversy and and, potentially fear. It's not necessarily, there's not a not not a not a lot of value coming from that necessarily. So Well Anyways, let's see. One of one of our one of our one of our listeners, I'm blanking on his name, is Gigalong Timu.
Speaker 2:So he he really liked our our image coverage, and he he said I forget, but he was posting and saying if Timu hits, like, some certain share price, he's becoming a millionaire. So I I I want them to hit that price just because I want one of our listeners to hit that milestone. But then I want them to sell and then, like, you know, then get aggressive. So,
Speaker 1:Oh, it's wild. There is. Well well well well, let's skip forward a little bit and and give some quick hits on some, follow-up news stories that we've covered in the past. Sonos finally hits the hard reset button. This is in the Wall Street Journal of the day.
Speaker 1:Sonos chief executive Tom Conrad's job would be hard enough if he just had to sell expensive speakers. Selling the idea that his speaker company can finally master the software game is a heavier lift. That, however, is the task at hand for the new CEO. Conrad was named to the post last month, succeeding longtime chief, Patrick Spence, who took the company public in 2018. The switch confirmed that Sonos is still reeling from a disastrous update to its app in May of last year, which left many consumers who shelled out for premium speakers unable to use their products.
Speaker 1:Fiscal quarter fiscal first quarter results from Sonos on Thursday confirmed the damage has lingered. Revenue fell 10% year over year to 550,000,000 for the December ending quarter, while operating income plunged four plunged 40% to about 48,000,000. Very rough. One particular telling stat is that the company's unit sales for the second half of the calendar year fell 14% from the year earlier to about 2,700,000 products sold, the fewest for that period since 2016. And that was with the company's first ever entry into the premium headphone space.
Speaker 1:Ben, there are some incredible charts of how Sonos has, been declining a very, very rough bar chart there. Those headphones that's called the Sonos Ace should have been a a valuable expansion opportunity for a company long confined to the home based speaker, but that but the launch took place about a month after the app rollout turned out to be the worst possible time. And so analysts now expect Sonos' revenue to fall 3% for the fiscal year ending in September after an 8.3% drop. Can the new boss eventually turn things around? Sonos is still a strong name in the premium auto in premium audio despite the damage done to the brand by last year's app fiasco.
Speaker 1:They, they this week, they, said that they would cut the size of the workforce by 12%. We will see if that's enough. The stock is way down relative to the S and P five hundred. There's another chart there of when they launch their app update. They are down almost they they dip 40%.
Speaker 1:They've climbed back up a little bit. There's some good news from Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley, Eric Morgan Stanley's Eric Woodring says stepping back, we are impressed by management's ability to rip costs out of the model. A tough demand backdrop and an and elevated uncertainty still hangs over Sonos, though, indeed, only 38% of analysts rate Sonos a buy compared with 74% before the app rollout. The worst seems to be behind Sonos, but they are still early in their transformation.
Speaker 1:I don't know about that. I used the app this weekend. It was terrible. It's still terrible.
Speaker 2:I'm just pulling out I'm pulling up the market.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They are they're having a rough a rough, rough go. I was I was in my garage looking at an old Sonos Playbar that I have. I have it in storage. Hopefully, gonna reinstall it.
Speaker 1:I was thinking I was gonna reinstall it in my house. Might just throw it away. It's been it's been a rough, rough go, and, I don't know if they're when they're gonna turn the when they're gonna turn the corner, but they gotta just roll back the software and make it work seamlessly and flawlessly. You know? I you can't have these, like, delays and these and these breaks.
Speaker 1:Even just, like, turning up the volume, turning down the volume, like, it just doesn't work anymore. So they have been they have been struggling. Anyway, how's the market doing? Are you on public.com?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm on public. I mean, it's honestly been you know, it's actually up 16% in the past six months, so that just goes to show how how, you know, bad of a situation they were in last year. I would say that the ACE the Ace is an interesting, you know, product, and and I don't see that. Home speakers are the kind of things that you expect to just work.
Speaker 2:Right? They sit in one place. You're coming in. You know, maybe you're putting Spotify on or or whatever you do using Bluetooth. It should just kind of turn on or Wi Fi just just turn on and work.
Speaker 2:But Sonos doesn't do that. Right? Everybody that owns Sonos is oftentimes frustrated with them. I have Sonos products in my house. I wish that I didn't.
Speaker 2:I wish that I had, you know, just analog you know, some type of analog solution. I think that there's this, place I was saying this Past week was, like, such a smart home that it was really, like, frustrating to use because it it it just if everything's not sort of perfectly interconnected, it just kind of everything breaks down. And so the issue is if you give consumers the experience of a poor experience with physical products that are sitting in your home that should just work, and then you say, hey. Well, we know you kinda had issues with this product, but now we're gonna give you a product like headphones that you're gonna wear potentially for hours and hours and hours all day long and use on car calls and apps and keep them around. And, you know, there's z where there's even less tolerance.
Speaker 2:Right? If you've ever had AirPods that are kind of freaking out and not working, it's very, very frustrating. Right? And so I think the jump from home, hardware to, hey. Now we're gonna build hardware that you're gonna take with you all through your life.
Speaker 2:I don't want Sonos following me around when I leave the house. Stay stay at home. Give me some I need some peace peace and quiet away from that, those smart speakers. But, the other challenge is just pricing. Right?
Speaker 2:The the Sonos Ace is, like, about $350. You can get the Apple AirPods Max for about 5 like, $200 more. And had the issue with headphones is headphones are, I would say, more of a, in that category, more of a luxury item than a utility. Right? People in 2025 care less about music quality overall because a lot of entertainment is happening through apps and things like that.
Speaker 2:And so if you're giving consumers a choice of, hey. You can use you can buy Apple AirPods that are a luxury sort of fashion product statement, right, that says something about you. May not like that, but it's it's true. Sort of an accessory. Or you can buy the Sonos Ace, which have no brand recognition, are still expensive at $350.
Speaker 2:Right? It's it's not a it's not like they came in with the super budget option. That's just a really tough sell. Right? No kid is going into Christmas, you know, teenager being like, oh, I really want the Sonos Ace.
Speaker 2:Right? It's it's very clearly it it doesn't feel worth even you know, maybe they're as good of sound quality. They probably are as good as the air AirPod Maxes, but that is not the deciding factor, I think, for a lot of consumers is I just want the best, you know, sounding pair of headphones, and I want great value. They're saying, I want to accessorize by having this luxury product, and I want something super reliable that integrates into my existing mobile experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg was on Rogan talking about how Apple has locked down, some of the Bluetooth APIs that make AirPods so seamless to use and how, Facebook wanted to integrate with the iPhone at a deeper level, and Apple kinda made it difficult. And, that's just a tough place to be in if you're Sonos and you don't have leverage over apple. Sure. They have to open up some of the APIs and you get to use some of the Bluetooth stuff, but you don't get their proprietary network because apple can always say, hey, privacy.
Speaker 1:If we give you two if we give some random company too much access to the user's data, that's a privacy issue. Yeah. And then the flip side of that, which is which is a good it's a good argument. You do want you don't want some cheap headphone company just stealing all your iPhone passwords or money or something like that. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:But when it's Sonos and they can review the code, they should be able to operate at the same level through the same APIs. But, of course, Apple, you know, knows that they benefit from that, and they're gonna sell more more more products if they lock it down. So, anyway, we should move
Speaker 2:on to Super Bowl. The last the last thing I was gonna say, if you think about AirPods as a business line being roughly equivalent, you know, in terms of importance as their agreement with with, you know, as as Google, Apple's relationship. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Apple makes roughly $20,000,000,000 a year from their that search, you know, partnership. AirPods are not as, you know, not putting up as much, you know, profit margins, but it's a $22,000,000,000 business line. Apple's not gonna just give that away. Right? Like, AirPods will continue to grow.
Speaker 2:It's a very meaningful business. And so going and competing with you know you know, again, it it almost feels like, yeah. Okay. They could sell some headphones, but certainly not gonna save the company.
Speaker 1:Yep. Well, let's move on to the Super Bowl. Did you watch the Super Bowl? Did you watch the ramp ad? What'd you think?
Speaker 2:I did. I watched the ramp ad, and I and I saw some football too.
Speaker 1:Did you bet on the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2:You know, so not following one, we've talked about this. I've never been into sports betting. We joke about sports betting a lot because it's just funny to me. To me, it's just funny. I I don't I don't really under I mean, I I understand why people like to do it.
Speaker 2:But for me, I was looking I I I downloaded DraftKings because I was like, alright. I've gotten enough of your ads. Probably thousands of people have told me to to download DraftKings. Let me check it out. And I looked at all the sort of, like, preset parlays.
Speaker 2:And the thing that was I just don't know enough. I don't know anything about, you know, football. And so I was just looking at this sort of, like, Saquon oriented bets that I don't even know if they would have played out or anything like that, but I didn't bet. I did watch. I saw somebody post something that I think is cool.
Speaker 2:We're all sort of in our own digital worlds and, like, hyper focused on our own individual events. Right? Like, you and I are here, you know, freaking out about, Elon making a bid on OpenAI. And if you walk out if I walk out on the street in New York, somebody's thinking about, you know, cricket in India. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, we're just fixated on totally different things. The Super Bowl is very cool, and the entire country can just orient around a single sort of cultural event. And it is as much of a cultural event as it is, you know, a sporting event.
Speaker 1:So Totally.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I had a post about this. Here's how I'm betting on the Super Bowl. Ten x levered long fan duel, five x levered long draft kings, American are gonna lose billions today on parlays. They don't even understand. The house always wins.
Speaker 1:And I was texting with, Sagar and Jetty, and he said, he told me that, FanDuel reports taking in over 16,600,000.0 Super Bowl bets, a 19% increase from last year. Activity peaked at nearly 70,000 bets per minute according to the sportsbook. I was kind of joking, obviously. This is not financial advice. I was not actually telling people to go, 10 x levered long fan duel or five x levered long DraftKings.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You gotta be you gotta be careful, John, because somebody in the chat somebody in the
Speaker 1:chat is looked at the I looked at the results for the past week. DraftKings is up 3% on public.com, Flutter Entertainment. I think they own FanDuel. They, they were, they were up 1.3% the last week, and the market is only up 1.1, the S and P five hundred. So oddly enough, DraftKings and FanDuel did outperform the S and P five hundred during this Super Bowl cycle.
Speaker 2:John, we do not. And to be clear, we do not offer financial, advice on this show. This is for entertainment purposes only. But, but, yeah, I mean, a lot of that stuff had to have been fairly priced in just because everything's, of course, always priced in.
Speaker 1:We'll never tell you what to buy, but we will tell you where to buy it. Go to public.com for all your trading needs. And, fortunately, the market is NPV positive, unlike sports betting. And so, you know, if you just took $20 that you were gonna spend on every sports bet for the next sports season and you would just put that into an ETF, you would be, fantastically well off. Soccer went on to send me something.
Speaker 1:He said, based on the historical data up to April 2024, he said, if you would have invested $200 monthly for thirty four months, totaling $6,800, you would have bought 72 shares of the S and P, and the value as of April 2024 would have been, $88,700 for a return of 28%. You really can't go wrong. He says dollar cost averaging, through February 2025, you'd be up 60% LMFAO. And you're not gonna find 60% returns in the sportsbook, unfortunately. So we recommend staying away from the sportsbook
Speaker 2:I mean
Speaker 1:heading over to public.com.
Speaker 2:I mean, not necessarily factually correct because I'm sure a lot of people last night had, you know, like, generational Mahomes haters just for betting the house against him having a rough night, and they've probably did well. But more importantly, should we talk about Tom Brady?
Speaker 1:We should.
Speaker 2:We should.
Speaker 1:So Tom Brady And him. Was, taken to task by Derek Guy, Die Workwear. He says he dislikes the grotesque opulence and flash of modern watches. And we have some info here. Tom Brady was spotted wearing, a Jacob and co yellow sapphire caviar tourbillon watch worth over $800,000 as an exclusive it's an extremely exclusive piece.
Speaker 1:And if you wanna pick up an $800,000 watch, we recommend that you head over to Bezel. Download the Bezel app and pick something out. Not my taste personally. No. I'd probably go for something a little bit more subdued.
Speaker 1:But if you wanna make a statement, can't go wrong with a Jacob and Co sapphire diamond Absolutely. Caviar tour b tour b tour b tour b tour b tour
Speaker 2:b yeah. An absolute hitter. So we were texting with, Quaid, one of the one of the founders of Bezel about this this whole debacle. And Quaid Quaid, you know, didn't actually have direct contact as I'm sure it wasn't released, but he he felt that this was such a ridiculous watch choice. And I'm sure even Tom felt silly about it that he said it was a possibility that it would be a an actual paid, you know, some type of of paid partnership.
Speaker 2:But, you know, who who knows? Who knows? Certainly, Tom has been photographed in some, you know, fantastic pieces, over the years. So that's As soon
Speaker 1:as this went out on TV, I was searching, acts just for Tom Brady watch, and there were thousands of tweets. Like, he grabbed the attention with it. Maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way, but either way, he's losing the profile of, you know, fast, of flashy watches. Loud opulence is fully back with this watch. And there's a lot to like about this.
Speaker 1:Nothing wrong with a gold watch. Nothing wrong with a big watch. Nothing wrong with a tourbillon in a watch. So, you know
Speaker 2:Nothing wrong with a nothing wrong with a watch that is majority yellow sapphire. Yeah. Yeah. So I also saw something else. I didn't I didn't really know this, but apparently, these these watches actually trade very quickly at at a fraction of their of their retail price.
Speaker 2:So they retail really high, but the second the secondary market for Jacob and Co is is pretty rough, which makes sense. I don't think a lot of people, to be honest, felt like very few people saw this watch and and said, I I need this watch. That's incredible. Whereas I've seen Tom Brady's you know, you know, Tom Brady, you know, frequently gets gets featured on, like, celebrity watch roundups. And oftentimes, he'll wear stuff that's like, yeah, that is a fantastic piece.
Speaker 2:Like, I would love to add that to my collection someday. And so, anyways, I don't know if it's hard to, I love XAI. I was trying to trying to explain it. Why did Brady pick this watch? It's like, who knows?
Speaker 2:We'll never know.
Speaker 1:We'll never know. We'll have to get him on the show and ask him. But let's stay with the Super Bowl. We're gonna review some Super Bowl ads. Of course, Chat GPT, massive ad.
Speaker 1:Very controversial. A lot of people hated it. Some people loved it. Jack Appleby, chimes in. He says, Chat GPT, what?
Speaker 1:You just lit $7,000,000 on fire. Worst Super Bowl ad ever. Imagine having one of the coolest tech innovations ever and not showing the super audience what it actually does. God. That was a horrible ad.
Speaker 1:How did you feel about the chat GPT ad, Jordy, when you when you saw it?
Speaker 2:So AdQuik partnered with Beehive, and they did a whole roundup. And they they actually had it listed that this was a $16,000,000 ad because it was a full 60 seconds. It was a very it was It's been that, you know, basically the, the the the ad unit for Sizelords. So so I looking at it outside of the realm of where of the context that it was being played, I thought it was a fantastic ad. I watched it.
Speaker 2:I felt it had a lot of very cool symbolism. I it was a it was a lot more fun than anything that I've seen OpenAI Yep. Put out. I thought yeah. Again, I've I've rewatched it since then.
Speaker 2:I thought it had good energy. It made me like OpenAI more. Yep. Right? Because a lot of this stuff like, a lot of the criticisms lately, if you ignore Sam Altman, have been around, you know, and then non nonprofit structure have been around, oh, they're bad at naming, you know, that like, what what's going on here?
Speaker 2:And so you're just focused on, like, you know, using the app all the time, but you're like, oh, o one pro, o one this. And this felt like they kind of rallied around this whole it felt like, you know, showing the sort of history of humanity through this, you know, very cool, in in sort of bits. Right? It was just very, I felt like, yeah, you could easily apply all the symbolism and meaning behind it, and it felt inspiring and futuristic and fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then you put that in the concept in in the context of, hey. You had an opportunity to you know, who is this for? I felt like this was a great ad for the technology industry and the sort of almost like power users. Right? But, the thing is, like, they're in the middle of raising $40,000,000,000.
Speaker 2:This is a fraction of their probably, like, next twelve months ad budget, and it's perfectly fine for, you know, perfectly fine for them to to sort of light money on fire to to to but Yeah.
Speaker 1:The way I think about it is is when you're a startup that's bootstrapping, you have a vision. You have a philosophy. You have a message for what you're building, a story that you're telling. And when you have no money, you're going to go direct, and you're gonna write maybe a a thread or a long post or a blog post and put it out for free. And if it's compelling, it'll go viral.
Speaker 1:And maybe it's a pitch deck and your ideas instantiated. Your vision for the world is instantiated in a deck that goes around and is is told to people one to one for free. Then as you get bigger, let's say you're a billion dollar unicorn. You might be able to instantiate your vision statement in a really slickly produced video that you put out on Twitter or x or you put it on your homepage. And it's a message from the founder saying, this is what we believe.
Speaker 1:And then you'll do some earned media, and you'll keep telling your story. But when you're a hundred and $50,000,000,000 company raising $2,040,000,000,000 dollars, like, you can just put your vision statement
Speaker 2:on your first do things.
Speaker 1:That's the
Speaker 2:You can just do it. That's the just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's just like, hey. Hey. We got this cool vision video. It tells everyone what we're like.
Speaker 1:Why don't we just, like, put some spend behind it? And some spend in this context is a Super Bowl ad. And it's crazy. But Yeah. But, yes, I I agree that, like, this is not a good direct response ad.
Speaker 1:This doesn't tell me what the product is, but this is but as as an individual piece of content, I liked it. But, again, in a crowded room of people that are drinking beers and eating Doritos, like, not the best way to this almost feels like it should run before a trailer for the next, Denis Villeneuve movie. Like, you go see Dune and you see this, and you're like, wow. That was aesthetic. The design is cool.
Speaker 1:The pixelation, the the circles, and it is tying into things, but it's pure, like, brand building. It's not really like, hey. We're here. Here's what you can do. Install the app right now.
Speaker 1:It's the opposite of the Coinbase ad, which was just a QR code to install the the the app. It's just like direct response. You know about Bitcoin. You're gonna buy it. Get get it right now.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of ads that do that. Like, there were there were a number of companies that were like, hey. Here's the QR code to download the app. We're giving away money or, you know, order on Uber Eats today. Order on DoorDash today.
Speaker 1:And this was very much just like, we have a vibe reel, and we're putting it out, and we happen to put spend behind it. So it wound up at the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So one effect one effect that was positive and that this is what they were probably going for is the takeaway of, oh, this is the next Apple. Right? Because it felt, like, very it felt creative and inspiring and fun, and it felt like, you know, human. And and even though it was this sort of digital experience, if you wanted to say, how do we if if OpenAI and and OpenAI probably went to their ad agency and said, we want OpenAI to be to fill this void that Apple left.
Speaker 2:Right? Apple's, like, saying gen emoji it and, like, all this, like, slop, you know, slop out of home ads. Hey. There's this void. There can be this inspiring, human centered consumer brand that sparks creativity and helps, you know, which is what Apple did.
Speaker 2:Right? Now the ad agency's job is to come up with something, and they and they they can they then convince the company and say, this is the right thing. Like, you're gonna you know, this is your moment. Like, let's own this. Let's do a sixty second ad, and let's be the most, you know, inspiring, cool ad.
Speaker 2:It was, like, objectively the coolest ad that I saw. Right? Ramp was super cool if you're, like, Eagles or Saquon fan.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And you're already a Ramp customer, and it's like, wow. Ramp is this massive, you know, company. They're playing at, like, the big they're in the big leagues now. This isn't a startup anymore. If chat if Chat, GPD, OpenAI wanted to come at this from the lens of, hey.
Speaker 2:Let's use this as a user acquisition moment to, like, put heat on Google. I would have taken the $16,000,000 and run four individual ads throughout the entire Super Bowl and just done fifteen second ads. Right? So it's like demonstrating how the product can be used in different ways of saying, hey.
Speaker 1:Use it to generate Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tie it to sports. Say, like like, go to Chat GPT right now and search.
Speaker 1:Tell me the history of Saquon Barkley. Oh, explain to me all the rules of football. You know? Hey. I'm watching for the first time.
Speaker 1:Like, that could be a really fun use of chat to the team. Because a lot of people are
Speaker 2:watching football
Speaker 1:for the first time. Hey. I I noticed that, like, you get the ball on the 30 yard line now when in when the ball goes out of the back. That's a new rule to me. When did that go in?
Speaker 1:That's a question that I would actually check GPT during the during the game, and they could have played on all that, done a ton of stuff just to drive downloads, but that wasn't the goal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They could have done an ad for the sports betters, the the the sort of moms, the girlfriends that don't know about football at all for
Speaker 1:Hardcore fans.
Speaker 2:And to me to me to me, this is I'm gonna make a funny comparison here. So if I'm perplexity or I'm Google and I'm seeing this OpenAI, I'm like, whew, That was that was close because they could have come hardcore for the sort of search answer engine type narrative.
Speaker 1:And notice when I was watching the game, I was googling I I I still landed on Google Super Bowl stats because I wanted to know, how many rushing yards each team had. And Google had a beautiful little, like, program at it wasn't generative AI. It just plugged into that widget. I didn't even have to go to a sports website, and it just gave me the exact info I needed. And that's something I could have gone to Chachiputy for if they just built, like, a little module little module and, like, made it fun and interesting, and perplexity is doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and I'm sure that they, you know, next Super Bowl, they'll be there. But, yeah. I I mean, interesting execution for sure.
Speaker 2:If if you're if you're, perplexity, right, watching this ad, you're you're you're you're sort of like, my competitor, which they're very real competitors, right, even if they're technically, like, marketing and going in different directions. The perplexity team is, like, stood out because they're like, okay. Chad GPT took an opportunity where they could have, like, dominated mind share being this new search product, and they, like, did this brand exploration. Yeah. It's similar to Drake watching Kendrick Lamar, you know, diss him, you know, aggressively through this thing, but put on what many people are saying is, like, the worst halftime show that they've ever seen.
Speaker 2:Right? And so he's sort of, like, he's sort of, like, watching. He's like, oh, like, I guess, like, I guess bullet. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Dodge the bullet a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, it was the same thing where I think that Kendrick performance, probably would have been great in a different context, but it just wasn't people didn't think it was appropriate for the Super Bowl because, you know, again, like, Kendrick has all these, like, layered lyrics. It's almost better to listen to it, like, as an audio file with some great headphones as opposed to, like, in a loud crowded room when everyone's drinking beers and and and you can't really follow what's going on, versus, like, the Kendrick performance two years ago at the Super Bowl in LA was, like, doctor Dre and Snoop Dogg just playing, like, the biggest bangers. Everyone has heard these songs, and it just looked like a party the whole time. And you're like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:That's what a Super Bowl show should be. Yeah. And and it's not like, the Super Bowl is so low attention span the whole time. People are second screening. They're talking.
Speaker 1:They're drinking. They're playing drinking games. Like, breaking through with anything that requires any sort of secondary level of thought is just really, really difficult. But let's let's move on to some of our Super Bowl ads.
Speaker 2:T T die in the chat says, Chad g b t cooked me a nasty plus plus 1,000 parlay.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:So that, like, you could've there could've been some, but but one of the
Speaker 1:Even cooking, how do I make it great nachos? How do I make how do I make wings? Yeah. Like like, that's something you could ask Jetty Piti didn't didn't break through in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Part of
Speaker 1:Well, Jack Yeah. Part of
Speaker 2:I was just gonna last thing, because you called this out too. He's saying that part of the reason why they maybe just focus on the brand is just like the knowledge cutoff where if you go on a chat g p t and you search immediately about stuff and, like, it actually is not gonna be a good experience. It's great if you wanna understand when was the last time, you know, the eagle what are the what five times have the Eagles won the Super Bowl or something like that. It'll nail that, but it won't nail the sort of, like, actual, day to day super topical stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, let's move on to the ad from the tech company that Jack Appleby really liked. He loved Google Pixel's Super Bowl spot. He said it was so touching. Said, I'm not crying.
Speaker 1:You're crying. No one's better at taking a tech feature and telling a wonderful emotional story while still making sure we all get the product benefit. This script is fantastic. And the screenshot here is, a Google search bar saying, explain bullying to a child. So very, like, emotional, playing on the heartstrings of, like, being a parent, how you would use Google to to to solve a really complex and difficult topic.
Speaker 1:And Google has always been great at that telling, like, a love story, an emotional story. And, and I think they've really done a good job of, like, telling some sort of, like, cinematic vignette that's emotional while still tying it back to the to the product. What was your take on it? Did you watch it, or are you seeing it?
Speaker 2:So I think I think it was a a well produced spot. It's just like there's such a big disc is there such a big disconnect with with a Google ad and with what they actually are as a company? If I wanted to understand how to explain bullying to my kids, I would I would Google how to explain bullying to my kids Reddit. Right? Like, that's like yeah.
Speaker 2:Actual that's like the actual way that you would get that. Like Oh,
Speaker 1:that's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Imagine getting, like, getting a getting a Google auto summary of, like, how you know? So, again, I thought this ad was, like, very forgettable. I came away from it being like, okay. Google is obviously gonna run a Super Bowl ad as a multi trillion dollar company. Not gonna remember it, you know, really ever again.
Speaker 2:I hardly remember the contents, and I'm very much in the target demo. Right? It was all about, you know, parenting and how to how to, you know so, anyways, I thought it was a big miss.
Speaker 1:It feels like the prestige movies at the Academy Awards where at a certain point, like, okay. Yeah. I can just imagine that that this year's best picture nominees are gonna be about, like, oh, brave journalist fighting some big thing, and then, oh, like, some foreign language film about, like, the Catholic church or whatever. And I'm and I don't even know what movies are nominated, but I'm sure they're gonna be, like, the same, like, heartstrings, dramas that are, like, always prestige films. Google's just put out so many of these that they do they they they fail to break through in the same way.
Speaker 1:As, like, I I think the first time Google did it, it was very, very cool. But, again, at least they're exploring the product because, Salesforce did not do a good job with that. I don't know if we should move on to Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the last the last thing the last thing is, like, getting an ad from Google is like getting an ad from Comcast. Right? Like, it could be the most well produced emotional ad, and you're still like, cool. Thanks, Comcast, for taking up time, but I'll never get back. You know?
Speaker 2:Like, it's not Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, Salesforce, Jack Applebee says, what, Salesforce? Your Super Bowl ad makes no sense. Restaurants don't seat you outside in the rain, and no one understands your AI product's role in reservations. Why? What a weird spot that serves no purpose.
Speaker 1:But they got your boy, Matthew McConaughey on, in the ad. He had so many cameos. And, yeah, Salesforce has always kinda struggled with this. They they they they tend to paint a very broad picture, and they don't do a good job. It's interesting because it's kind of in the same in the same realm as, like, people were kinda criticizing the ramp ad because they're like, how many CFOs were really watching?
Speaker 1:But at least the ramp ad was, like, very clear value prop for the CEOs for the CFOs. Whereas this
Speaker 2:is But to be clear
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To be clear, probably, like, 90% of CFOs are watching.
Speaker 1:Totally. Yeah. Anywhere.
Speaker 2:So so, yeah, you're you're if you wanna, you know, sort of collect
Speaker 1:Yeah. The flip side is that is that 90% of people who manage Salesforce in installations were also watching, but they don't do a good job of showing the value. Like, with the ramp ad, it's very clear. It's like, instead of expense report receipts and, like, dealing with filing expense reports, ramp will make that faster. So what you should be doing in Salesforce is saying instead of manually going through and tagging every, you know, every different line item in your CRM, Salesforce AI agents will do that for you.
Speaker 1:You know? But instead, it's like this very vague ad about Matthew McConaughey dining outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think
Speaker 1:It's it's striking, but it doesn't tell me what the product is.
Speaker 2:Well, so you remember in 2023 where there was this controversy because it came out, I think, in in some type of shareholder report that Matthew McConaughey was making, like, $10,000,000 a year to basically be, like, a rat like, Benioff's, like, friend. Like, hey. I'm gonna give you 10,000,000 a year to just kinda, like, do creative advisory on the company and and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:Salesforce is in is such a I don't know. The like, you get to the point as at at a company of the size it becomes I think branding just gets so much harder at extreme scale, right, where people have so much experience in their own opinions and feelings about your product that it's really hard to overcome that. Right? Like, Google is very much like cable for me. It's a utility.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I get email from them. I get search, you know, YouTube, things like that. But I don't really care to have, like, that much of an emotional relationship. And then Salesforce is the same thing where it's just sort of a dominant CRM provider. It's known for being clunky and hard to implement and and, you know, it's it's sort of almost like a necessary evil.
Speaker 2:And so just going and doing doing random stuff like this doesn't move the brand forward. It doesn't increase people's feelings. You know, I I I can't you know, maybe maybe the average American is looking at this and being like, I like Matthew McConaughey. Maybe I'll like you know, maybe I'm more inclined to take a Salesforce demo next time I get hit up by one of their SDRs. Like, maybe.
Speaker 2:Who knows?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, just just brand awareness.
Speaker 1:They're in the game, and they're just getting a little bit across, but they could have been more terse with it. Well, let's stay with Matthew McConaughey because couple slides later, Ben, we got, Uber Eats, with the most cameos in the Super Bowl ad. They got Matthew McConaughey there. And I saw this ad, and I liked it. I thought it was interesting because, like, it is a tech company advertising to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1:We barely even think about it because it's just a food delivery company. But, I I just thought it was, like, the perfect place to advertise this because you're you're you're eating, and there and there's always last minute things. Everyone's ordering pizza. There's always Domino's and beer beer ads during the Super Bowl. Uber Eats and delivery services is the perfect time to advertise.
Speaker 1:Oh, we forgot the wings. Let's see if we can go on Uber Eats. They had some really nice green bags, which I've never received Uber Eats in, but they really stuck out in every single shot that they framed. It was beautifully, the cinematography was beautiful. And, and they got a bunch of cameos to kind of just draw your eye back to the screen for something that would otherwise be pretty boring, but it's the perfect time to think about, hey.
Speaker 1:I do want more chicken wings. Let's order that right now. And I bet a lot of people installed the app, and I bet a lot of people, just ordered Uber Eats, while this ad was going live. So I thought it was a pretty good one. What do you think, Jordy?
Speaker 2:I actually didn't see this one. It might've been in the second half where the the I knew I knew ramp had it had the game in the bag, so I just
Speaker 1:got it
Speaker 2:checked out.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, let's move on to the Instacart one. I don't know if you saw that one.
Speaker 2:No. But but yeah. Look. Looking at Uber Eats and these sort of mass market consumer products, it is, I think the Super Bowl is a great way for an enterprise company to say, hey. We're here.
Speaker 2:We're playing in the big leagues. It's a tougher place to stand out if you are, you know, a dominant, you know, enterprise company already and and people already have opinion. But great opportunity. Again, probably some of the best money that Uber Eats will spend this year even if it doesn't have the the sort of direct attribution that they might have on other channels.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think Instacart, interestingly, obviously, a direct rival in many ways, more for grocery than food delivery, but still, in the delivery game. Jack Applebee says, wow. Instacart got some crazy brand cameos for their Super Bowl spot. Kool Aid guy, mister clean, old spice guy, Pillsbury Doughboy, and, of course, puppy monkey baby.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what that means. Chester the Cheeto Cheeto is there. Chester the Cheetah, who is Cheetos' mascot is there. And I always wonder how these brand collaborations work. Do they do they wind up have, paying part of the ad spot bill?
Speaker 1:Like, if you're Cheetos brand and you say, hey. It's a $6,000,000 ad spot. We'll put in a million dollars if you're promoting Cheetos in your Instacart ad even though it's an Instacart ad, or is it kind of just like a friendly handshake thing?
Speaker 2:No. It's very
Speaker 1:wonder about that.
Speaker 2:Who who knows what the deal looked like? It's very possible that this was Instacart's way of hacking a free ad by going to the IP holders and saying, hey. I'm gonna get you in the Super Bowl for a million dollars instead of, you know, whatever, and you're gonna get that exposure to the audience, and that's just an easier decision to make. And Instacart might have cut the, you know, piece up and said, hey. Everybody's thrown in 6,000,000 or 8,000,000 or 4,000,000, whatever.
Speaker 2:I don't know how long the spot was. But,
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking y Combinator should run a Super Bowl ad, carve up the 6,000,000 into 60 different companies. You get half a second. Your logo flashes on
Speaker 2:the screen. We almost did that back in the party round days. We we got, like, a very last minute offer. It was, like, $30 and for for, like, a fifteen second spot in, like, the North you know, the Northeast or something like that. They're gonna cut it up and and do, like, a last minute thing, like, drop your logo.
Speaker 2:But the logistics of getting all the approvals and everything just didn't work out.
Speaker 1:Well, it would be fun.
Speaker 2:But
Speaker 1:and last but not least, we gotta close on the ramp ad. I love that they've been doing a lot of follow-up. They've really been getting all the juice out of this lemon. They're squeezing. Eric Lyman today writes, why did ramp make a Super Bowl ad with Saquon chasing down expense reports?
Speaker 1:Because while everyone was watching the game, finance teams across America were still working to close January's books. I was surprised to see in our analytics that tens of thousands were working the weekend. They deserve their moment in the spotlight. And so, you know, I think I I think the ad went over very well. It was very clear, and it delivered very quickly, and I was happy to see it live.
Speaker 1:Any more to say on ramp ad?
Speaker 2:Absolutely dog. Absolute dog. I mean, at the end of the day, I just would highlight again that I feel like Eric and Saquon are are, you know, basically the same person on just different paths, just humble humble savages. So it was awesome to see, you know, as much as yesterday was a win for Billy's fan, it was a win for people that like finance automation. So, what a what a day.
Speaker 1:Said it better myself. Completely agree. Well, let's move on to some timelines, some news from Axe over the weekend. Ben Hilack says if o three was the one hundred and seventy fifth best programmer in the world, every company in the world would immediately stop hiring software engineers. We clearly need a better way of measuring what LLMs are capable of, because OpenAI's reasoning model has been climbing the rankings and has been ranking very highly in terms of software engineering, but, still has yet to be fully implemented at a lot of companies.
Speaker 1:What do you think? There's always the argument that this stuff is just additive. You keep your software engineers and you let them do more with the new tools. Or in the future, maybe you don't hire them at all. What do you think?
Speaker 2:No. I think it's, I think it's a good I mean, I think it's just a great framing from, Ben. I mean, Ben and people that listen to the show know that Ben, did the Jaguar redesign. He also has an AI analytics company. But it's a very good it's a very good point in that, you can say that o three is ranked as the hundred and seventy fifth best programmer, but in practice, it doesn't feel like that when you're using it.
Speaker 2:Right? It doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel like you have one a top 1,000 programmer in the world coding with you. It it feels like you have more you know, people position it more as, like, a very good new grad that can work extremely quickly. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is still very valuable. And so, like, I think calling out that difference between what it's capable of, but then what matters more is how companies are able to leverage it internally. Right? And, OpenAI, you know, clearly is still hiring software engineers. They're also not getting the same value as a 70.
Speaker 2:So it's like ability and value. Right? Everybody's hired employees who are, like, ridiculously talented, but then can't deliver on that talent in your organization. And that kind of feels like where o three is at and just all models in general. It's like, hey.
Speaker 2:You're clearly brilliant, but, like, you gotta be able to do a bit more for me here, right, for it to, like, you know, sort of live up to the expectation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A lot of supervision still involved. Have Have you been following the AI.com drama? There's a tweet here
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Breaking DeepSeek may have bought the domain AI.com, and it now redirects straight to their site just like how OpenAI snapped up chat.com. Our domain power moves, the new arms race in AI. But Pierre, Richelson says, a i.com is the wildest thing out there. No. It's not changing hands.
Speaker 1:There's a person behind this URL switching from OpenAI to XAI and now to DeepSeek. What a fascinating hustle.
Speaker 2:What are
Speaker 1:they getting out of this? I don't understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so what's really obvious here is that AI.com is owned by a domain investor. Mhmm. And nobody nobody they've clearly gone to all these different companies and tried to sell it
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:To them. And now they're they, you know, they probably I'm sure, like, any of these companies would pay $5,000,000 for AI.com, right, just to kind of have. But, I don't think it's that great of a name for a bunch of reasons or, like, necessarily that valuable. And I so I think a lot of these companies are probably looking at it being like, well, we have our names OpenAI. ChatGPT is our core consumer product.
Speaker 2:Yep. XAI is like, okay. XAI is a pretty good name, and it's very possible AI.com has has some is saying, like, I wouldn't sell it for less than a hundred million dollars. And so now they're trying to create leverage, and they probably have some traffic. And so they're just trying to create this leverage between the different groups of being like, at any moment, it might go to your competitors.
Speaker 2:So now it's redirecting to you, and now it's redirecting to you. And so, anyways Yeah. Yeah. It's technically smart, but the thing about the domain space is people are just, you know, we we talked about that story that, that Rob had shared from Snagged where the Instagram the owners of Instagram.com sold the domain and then sued Instagram later and said, oh, it wasn't sold with you know, the daughter signed off on the sale, but not the family who really owned it, and they tried to claw it back and all this stuff. So the domain space is, like, still the wild, wild west.
Speaker 2:I the craziest domain deal I did was for a domain that was, like, owned by, like, a Chinese investment group, which was smooth to their to their credit, but, it was still a weird, like, long, you know, months long negotiation. So, anyways, I'm I'm interested to see where this end ends up. It could be one of those things that it ends up not even being bought by a new player and gets bought by a Google or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It's odd because, obviously, like, webbrowser.com was not important in the browser wars. Chrome never I don't even know if they're they own Chrome.com. You just go to Google or Bang, and you type in install Chrome, and that's the end of that.
Speaker 1:But let's move on to some amazing news. Eddie zoo says he got banned from the Columbia hackathon for being too young. So we snuck in and we won. And he said, big shout out to a bunch of people. And yes, we told the organizers and returned the prizes afterwards.
Speaker 1:Wow. What a heartwarming story. Absolutely crowd. These kids. Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Get these Chads in in in Doge. They're ready. They're ready.
Speaker 1:They're ready. Yeah. You can just do things incorporated. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Very exciting. I mean, I don't know why there's an age gate on hackathons. Maybe it's, something about Columbia wanting to restrict it just to students, but I love that they snuck in and hilarious that they won.
Speaker 2:There's some there's some students that would be seven that could be, you know, just, you know, a year ahead or something.
Speaker 1:I was thinking it might be some sort of, like, insurance and and and and, like, legal liability because, like, you're staying up all night at this hackathon. And to be on campus, you need to sign some waiver because the school is technically responsible for you. But, you know, seems like a victimless crime sneaking into a hackathon. I love that they built some stuff. I hope that Eddie posts more results of what they actually built.
Speaker 1:I wanna hear about it. I wanna follow the story. Eddie, if you're listening, send us more breakdown of what happened. How'd you sneak in? What do you have to do?
Speaker 1:Do you have to go out in the back door? What do you have to do? Leave a door open? Yeah. Eddie, come on.
Speaker 1:What are the layers that you did? Were you wearing a fake beard, fake mustache, glasses? Was it three kids in a trench coat? I wanna know what happened. Bring it down for us.
Speaker 2:Three builders in a trench.
Speaker 1:Three cracked builders in a trench coat. Three zoomers in a trench coat. That's the way you get into the Columbia hackathon, but congratulations on winning. We're very happy for you, and, good luck to whatever you build next. Let us know.
Speaker 1:Let's move on to dirt man, BESAC. He says he's been on the show before. He says, people think making moo the moon a state is just a meme, but there is a real tangible pathway there. And he shares a video of Newt Gingrich. Thirteen thousand people is what it will take.
Speaker 1:What does that look like practically? Assuming that Starship can carry a hundred people to the moon, that means we only need a 30 launches to there to carry the people. Let's four x that let's four x that number for equipment and orbital re refueling. That's 520 launches. And so he estimates $60,000,000 per launch.
Speaker 1:We get 31,000,000,000 in launch costs. Totally doable. Less than Stargate, and we have a moon base. And so I love to see people breaking down. When the moon should be a state meme, broke through and and Solana was pushing it, I did a deep dive on moon law a little bit, wrote a thread, kind of breaking down how it actually work.
Speaker 1:It's fascinating. I think this is gonna be a a topic of conversation for many, many years to come, and it's gonna break through any day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and to be clear, us going and renaming the Gulf Of Mexico, the Gulf Of America is just sort of foreshadowing for re you know, you know, I don't know. Would we keep Moon as the name? Would we name it new America? You know, something like that.
Speaker 1:The proposal is just there's a fifty first state, and it's just called Moon. And so you're in
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Massachusetts. I'm from Florida. You're from Moon. The end. And I'd be happy with that.
Speaker 2:I'd be happy with that.
Speaker 1:We need we need a governor. We need, you know, some, some interstate freeways up there. We need parking lots and McDonald's and all the all the things that make it
Speaker 2:in American state. I told you for my next son, we're we're we're thinking about the name Rocket, little Rocket Hayes.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that'd be a cool being like, yeah. I grew up in California. Like, I was born in California, but I really mostly grew up on the moon. And it's like, okay. A little bit of nominative, determinism there.
Speaker 2:Little rocket.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, let's move on to some more amazing and good news from real news, Erie, I guess. The Irishman that was stabbed in the neck today is all stitched up, and he's back in the pub. The gales are a hearty bunch. Let's go.
Speaker 1:He says throat stitched up, attacker in custody, beers on tap. We live to see another day. So congratulations to the Irishman that was stabbed in the neck. You have, fought and won, and we're proud to support you on this program.
Speaker 2:I never saw I never I never knew that he was stabbed. So this is amazing for me to just see that these guys at the pub. That's really the news for me. Just having a nice time at the pub. So love to see it.
Speaker 1:Well, we got the timeline in turmoil once again. Palmer Lucky, says, I'm once again asking ZDNet to publicly retract their bogus 2018 story claiming I was fired for stealing trade secrets after a federal court ruled I was guilty of the same. The way they have handled this is insanely unethical. I was never found guilty of anything, which is true. And so Paul Graham chimes in and says, why don't you just sue them?
Speaker 1:And Palmer says, because it's ill it isn't illegal to publish falsehoods about public figures. On the balance, it's probably good that the state cannot outlaw crappy journalism, but it does mean putting up with this type of nonsense. And so Palmer's only recourse is to take to x. Paul, PG follows up by saying, it seems like you can sue them if they deliberately, with actual malice, publish lies. And one could argue that they are doing this if they don't correct an article that they know to be false since the publication of an article on the web is ongoing.
Speaker 1:I'm not a lawyer, but just deliberately refusing to update an article that they know contains lies seems to me libel in the spirit of The US law. If a US Judge agrees, it would be a valuable precedent. And so Palmer has been fighting the good fight against, muckraking tech journalists. I think that these, journalists should just stick to the stables, stick to dressage, maybe a little jousting here and there. Just head out to the family, the ancestral estate.
Speaker 2:Estate.
Speaker 1:Play some play some life-sized chess. Stop writing hit pieces and, just enjoy a nice glass of champagne in the morning while, you know, a string quartet, plays classical music for you to wake up to. Life could be so easy, but instead you choose violence every day on the Internet. So tech journalists, you're out of notice. Let's move on.
Speaker 1:Kevin, follows up with a, beautiful screenshot from poly market. Will it's Kevin win reply guy of the month? 100% chance. So congrats to Kevin. Enjoy this meme from when I was trying to win t b p n reply guy of the month in December.
Speaker 1:We love Kevin. We love fans.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go I'm gonna make an impulse decision right now and hopefully back it, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, Kevin, is this is is the February 10, reply guy of the week now?
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Oh, we just did it. Congratulations, Kevin. Kevin. Fantastic,
Speaker 1:guy of the week.
Speaker 2:I like this I like this asset. He clearly, you know, did the work. It looks nice.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's on brand. That that's like a nice emoji bottle. I think we've made the
Speaker 1:Dom Perignon is very carefully matted. There's no rough edges. This was Photoshop. This is artisanal meme making. Very, very high quality.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can tell with his, his badge. He's a member of a esteemed meme making community. We've seen this badge all over x, and, we're happy to have you in the community, Kevin. Let's move into
Speaker 2:Here's a
Speaker 1:post by C Mac. Says the average European employee's workday, and it's a day in the life of Brunello Cuccinelli. Six AM, wake up in his countryside house. This could be a tech journalist for all we know. Revel in the silence of nature, slowly get dressed at 07:45AM.
Speaker 1:Breakfast at the village bar, coffee, and a croissant. Take some time to plan the day ahead. 08:30AM, walk to the office. Morning, work block, dedicated exclusively to design work. No meetings or gaps.
Speaker 1:1PM, walk home for lunch, pasta with olive oil and tomato sauce. 2PM, thirty minutes siesta, a crucial part of the farming culture he originally comes from. 3PM, afternoon work block, admin ops, finance, production, and plans for the next day. At 05:30PM, the whole company stops work and tails the late afternoon off. Takes the takes the late afternoon off.
Speaker 1:Brunello plays places a high premium on rest, soulfulness, and personal study. At 8PM, he has a light supper reading from his 5,000 book library. Let's go. 9PM, he heads off to the cafe to meet friends. They discuss politics, philosophy, religion, and other subjects late into the night.
Speaker 1:Jordy, what do you think? Is it a winning formula for a good day?
Speaker 2:A lot more work in here than the average European workday, I would have to imagine. So, you know, calling one of Europe's top CEOs, you know, average is sort of, you know, throwing a little bit of shade. But this just made me think. I think we need to do a deep dive on who's more goated, Brunello Cuccinelli or Pietro Loricpiano. And because a lot of people say Brunello just, like, copied, Pietro's, like, whole, like, sort of, like, thing.
Speaker 2:Like, copied his bit, basically.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And
Speaker 2:so I think if we did, you know, who's basically the goat of
Speaker 1:Goat debate.
Speaker 2:Find fat the goat debate, basically. Yeah. For for venture capitalist, you know, attire, I think that'd be good. I'm a little biased. The suit suit I ordered last time in New York, I was in New York's Laura Laura Piana fabric.
Speaker 2:So pretty excited for that. But we we really gotta nail down the goat debate here.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Will you take that side, and we'll get someone to debate the the Brunello side of the debate, and we'll have us a fight. A knockout, drag out fight. It'll be great. Well, let's move on to a fantastic promoted post from Wander who say, feeling spontaneous.
Speaker 1:We just dropped the price at Wander Brandon Beach to $395 a night from tomorrow to February 14 and February. It's one of the most beloved locations near its world famous Brandon Dunes Golf Resort. So if you're a golfer, go check out this wander. It looks wonderful. And we have another post from wander that I wanted to highlight because this place I might be locking this down pretty soon.
Speaker 1:This looks amazing. So, Jerry Lee says, I miss waking up to these views. Stayed in the most stunning house in Palm Springs via wander. And if you click forward, Ben, there's some close ups here. Really, really iconic.
Speaker 1:The vertical post doesn't do it justice, but it has this amazing circular pool with a jacuzzi out in Palm Springs. Looks like just a fantastic place to stay. Couldn't recommend it enough. And, of course, we
Speaker 2:need to do our first shirtless episode and
Speaker 1:just I think I I think this is it's so cinematic. It's so cinematic. Like like, I I I have no idea, you know, everything else would have fit everyone. You know? I'll I'll figure out all those details, but I gotta be there.
Speaker 1:It's looks beautiful. It I mean, if you're listening to this, it's just it's just one of the most beautifully designed buildings. It it I mean, it looks like it's just incredible. I I I can't say enough nice things about it. So, go check it out and just browse Wander and and and see what's out there because there's so many good opportunities for, you know, vacations, offsites, company offsites, events, all sorts of different stuff.
Speaker 1:Highly recommend it. Well, speaking of, shirtless podcasts, I hope Theo Vonn and Alex Wang are ready to strut their stuff because they're doing a podcast together, baby. I love this. I think they met at the inauguration in DC. There was a photo of them.
Speaker 1:I think Theo Vonn's, like, chair broke or something or or something crazy out there where, like, one of the Logan Paul brothers, like, or Jake Paul, like, fell down and and Sam Altman and Alex Wang turned around and Theo Vaughn was there. Really, really funny world colliding moment, but Alex Wang writes, coming soon to a podcast app near you. He's doing the Theo Vonn Show. Theo, obviously, a a amazing comedian. He's interviewed Donald Trump.
Speaker 1:He's interviewed tons of comedians, tons of great people. He's really, really created a lot of breath with his show, and now he's got Alex Wang on the the founder of Scale AI. Not a lot of b to b enterprise company founders making the podcast circuit, but Alex Wang is cutting his own, his his his own path.
Speaker 2:I mean, this this is this is an amazing and very unpredictable collaboration, but I absolutely love it. I, I only listen to Founders Podcast, but if I were gonna listen to another podcast, it would be it would be this specific episode. I also have to, one of our one of the posts from last year that went super viral was a picture of Theo Vaughn in a suit, and I said, like, Doug Leone, founder of Sequoia, colorized. And, like, it went super viral, but I don't think most people I think, like, half the people didn't realize that it was Theo Vonn. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't think that bad.
Speaker 1:You've sent me pictures of Theo Vonn multiple times, and I've been like, that guy. Like, who's the guy? And for some reason, when I see Theo Vaughn in
Speaker 2:a little
Speaker 1:context, I'm like, that's not Theo Vaughn. But, of course, I know who Theo Vaughn is. It's very odd. He is a chameleon. It's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, let's move on to signal. Signal writes, I haven't posted on Instagram since October. None of my friends have either. Insta feels like a dying mall. Everything is just ads and influencer noise.
Speaker 1:Friend content has virtually diminished for me. I open it only because people still send memes. What's your Instagram experience been like? I haven't really been using it in a number of months. I got a new phone, and I didn't install it onto, like, the home screen, so I never really open it.
Speaker 1:I check it every once in a while, and I basically just see who sent me some memes, and that's it. But, I I haven't posted on it in years. I've just been private. I wanna retool it as a as a business account, essentially, to put some of our content on there, but I don't see it as a way to connect with friends anymore. All of that has moved to iMessage, and and and signal group chats and that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm not really, connecting with friends on any meta products right now, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I I thought that was note of I mean, I still use Instagram, but more specifically around interests and then connecting with friends. Like, mostly connecting with my non like, the vast majority of my, you know, like, most important friendships now are, oriented around tech and work and business and stuff like that. But my nontech business relationships are mostly on Instagram still.
Speaker 2:That's where I sort of keep up with, there's housekeeping at my door right now, but, so I'm gonna have to get that in a second. But, but, anyways, I think it's potentially a dying app at least for Gen z and, potentially sort of millennials broadly. And the question then becomes what where the what's Zuck's next app. Right? Because that attention is gonna go somewhere, and it's important for him to own that attention.
Speaker 2:And that if if Instagram goes the way of Facebook, right, which I legitimately haven't logged into in in, you know, years, What happens to Meta's, you know, business from there?
Speaker 1:I mean, the the the weird thing is that, like, it could it could go the way of Facebook, and it could still retain a ton of user seconds in the sense that people could just be on there, not creating any content, not not connecting with friends, purely watching it like Netflix, endlessly scrolling reels. Yeah. And that's the and that's the revenue profit maximizing thing, which is a little sad because the the the mission of of Meta has been for a long time to connect people, and that is cool when they do that, but they do seem to be losing that. I'll read through some more posts. Feel free to get that, that door if you need to.
Speaker 1:Let's go to Sean Frank. And, Ben, you can pull up this image. He says, their love of the game keeps me sane. And he's sharing a meme. He says, mom, can we have authentic enthusiastic tech journalism?
Speaker 1:And it's a picture of us. Says, no. There's authentic enthusiastic tech journalism at home. And at home, it's Kara Swisher. And so we love the support from Sean.
Speaker 1:I told him he should put an ad for Ridge Wallet in this image. He didn't. It was very disrespectful to our culture, but we'll give him a pass this time. But we love Sean Frank and everything that he does over at the Ridge Wallet. Let's move on to, Erystic Rex.
Speaker 1:I literally laughed out loud at this post. I thought it was so funny. He says every Emmett Sheer post. Of course, Emmett Sheer is the former CTO CEO of Twitch, very active poster on Axe. At one point, he was the CEO of of OpenAI for a few days, and it starts out Emmett Sheer.
Speaker 1:Does everyone does anyone have any good garlic bread recipes? And then it's the show more replies button. And and the last reply is, Emmett Sheer again. Well, if you subscribe to the dark forest theory, sure. But even then, only if the rules of magic are universal, not on those planets.
Speaker 1:And and heuristic rack says, what are you people saying to him? And I've seen Emmett go down these rabbit holes and debate. He loves debating AI and and all these, crazy kinda teapot, rationalist themes. He's very deep in the weeds and this stuff. And it's, it's always a fun, fun time to read through some of the threads that he's gone really deep with people on.
Speaker 1:Because, to the point about Instagram, not really driving connections, Axe is a great place where you can connect with people and you can have a full on conversation in public. And, I always enjoy, finding someone who got completely derailed from whatever they were saying originally and just couldn't stop replying. It's one of the most fun things to find.
Speaker 2:Like, he he he's so native to Teapot yet yet when he was briefly OpenAI CEO, there was just so like, it's everybody was like, wow. This feels super random when in many ways it was exactly the kind of CEO that sort of rationalist board, of OpenAI would have wanted running the company. Right? Like, sort of this sort of
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:Tech intellectual type person Yeah. Who is gonna guide, you know, the company very theoretically. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Culturally, it kinda made sense. You know? You could speak to the the nonprofit side, the very deep in the weeds of the philosophy. But then he was a CEO who worked for Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 1:You know? Like, he actually does understand product and revenue and how to grow a company. So, you know, interesting pick. Obviously, didn't last very long, but, I've met him. He's a great guy.
Speaker 1:I love him. And he likes to have fun on x, which is what we're all about. Let's move on to Matt Grimm. I know you're gonna have a comment on this, Jordy. He says, does flying your company logo over New Orleans with a banner saying angel investors constitute a public solicitation?
Speaker 1:Is this the market top? And it's a picture of a of a plane. Someone bought one of those planes that drags a massive banner with some company. I can't even see what company it is, but, I think it's a hilarious way to get angel investors. And if it works out, man, is it gonna be a story for the ages?
Speaker 1:But what do you think, Jordy? Should more startups be, renting planes to help close their seed rounds?
Speaker 2:I mean, if you the the the main thing is if you need to rent a plane to close, you know, a sub $5,000,000 round, you're probably working on the wrong thing or you're not you're not you're not that guy, pal. I think I think I I like the creativity, and I think that planes are generally underutilized, ad inventory for start ups. They're not that expensive, and it's a way to to be sort of big and be, you know, get somebody's attention. I I always see them around LA flying along the coast with, like, beer ads. So I'm like, that could easily be an ad for you know?
Speaker 2:We should start running ads, you know, big QR code banner at the back. Hey. We know you're at the beach right now, but how would you like to listen to a niche technology show? Oh, you mean the number
Speaker 1:one live streaming show in tech?
Speaker 2:The number one live stream in tech.
Speaker 1:After all, Jordy. Yeah. I mean, also, as a consumer, a little bit of a bear signal. If I see an app advertising with angel investors attached, I'm like, is this app even gonna be around in three months? They seem desperate.
Speaker 1:It's rough. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't install it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It the the main thing is the aesthetics of running an ad for your company, which it it was I couldn't see what it was, but it didn't feel like it probably should use money. And then bolting on the oh, by the way
Speaker 1:so funny that it's bolted on to the back. It's like, at the last second, they were like, wait. Can we use this to raise money too? Let's just tack this onto the back of the flag. What a mess.
Speaker 1:Well, instead of buying a, you know, an ad, if you wanna attract some angel investors, why don't you get in the watch game, get something nice on your wrist. When you're out and about, people stop you. Hey. I like watches. You like watches.
Speaker 1:Let's do a deal. And so OW Root says normalize small watches. Interesting post. Obviously, the best place to get yourself a small watch is on bezel. Highly recommend that.
Speaker 1:I've been looking at some small watches on bezel. There's a lot of good options. And, Antonio or, chimes in here saying, Longines grand classics, I I inherited from my grandfather. I always felt it was small, but this morning I'm feeling it. And so there's some fantastic pictures here, Ben, if you put tab forward of iconic photos of men wearing small watches.
Speaker 1:Of course, there's the Cartier tank worn by Andy Warhol, and there's some other, small watches. I think it takes a little bit of, little bit of style, a little bit of je ne sais quoi to pull off. But The thing
Speaker 2:if you can play the thing is the pure the pure function of having a conversation starter that fits nicely under under a dress shirt is Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean,
Speaker 2:it's just pure function and class. So
Speaker 1:And we saw this with Tom Brady where he's going bigger and bolder, and it's a, you know, it's a it's an arms race that can only end in nuclear war with with the giant flavor flag clock around your chest. And maybe you wanna go the other direction, little bit smaller, little bit understated, but for the real watch person, they'll know. They'll be able to clock it. Yeah. Cartier tank.
Speaker 1:Very nice. Yeah. I like that. Muhammad Ali warm.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:You know? And and and and I think that there is a there is a little bit of a of a a a a like, a a feeling in watch culture of the bigger and heavier the watch is, the more valuable it is, but also the more masculine it is. Takes a real man to wear a smaller watch. You know? Yep.
Speaker 1:Anyway, let's move on.
Speaker 2:All set.
Speaker 1:Let's go to oh, we should go to Emmett Sheer because, we just mentioned him. He says, if someone is constant is consistently getting good results, even though they're obviously doing it wrong, it means there's something you're missing about how the world works. I like that. Just a good inspirational quote, you know, to check your priors if you see someone just winning, winning, winning, even though they're doing something way wrong. This can apply to someone who's just hacking on a project using the wrong programming language, using the wrong tooling, but they're still getting good results, cracked.
Speaker 1:And it can apply at the Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think this applies I think this applies to, to content that people see as cringe. People see somebody posting cringe content, and they think Yep. Oh, that's cringe. Why would you ever do that? And if it's getting, you know, real engagement for every person that thinks it it's cringe, there might be five people that that don't and enjoy it.
Speaker 2:So I think, yeah, I think it's a good way to reframe how the world works. I gotta go get the door here. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we love word grammar on this show, and we have a good post from word grammar. Word grammar says, if your natural response to o three is to downsize your team and cut costs rather than work on a 100 x more ambitious project, your NGMI. And I couldn't agree more. The tools are getting better. It means you can do more.
Speaker 1:It means you can just pull forward your entire roadmap, build more software, build more products. And that's one of the greatest things about AI. And I think that if you stay small and everyone else is being more aggressive using more aggressive tools, but writing millions of lines of code, if that's what they need to do much faster than you. You're just gonna get killed on features, so you gotta compete. And so it's this weird equilibrium where I think the the end state will not be less work, but more more product, really, which is which is exciting because we get more good stuff, and I like that.
Speaker 1:I like this one from Nick Milinovic, one of the friends of the show. He says, you know, the animal spirits are back in fintech when these guys return. Ryan Breslow, founder of Bolt is doing a keynote, and Dom from Fast is, what is he doing? Short home loans. Buy your new home now.
Speaker 1:Repay when your old home sells. And so they're back. Both of the legends of the last cycle, a lot of people counted them out, but we love to see an entrepreneur dust themselves off and get back in the game. What you got, Jordy?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I wanna I wanna know what you remember there was that board struggle with Bolt. It was probably six months ago at this point where Yeah.
Speaker 1:With the Brazil.
Speaker 2:Had all this. Yeah. He had all this money lined up, and he was trying to force people to double down and allow himself to basically regain control of the business. I don't know how that really netted out, but it seems like he's back if he's going and and and rep, like, very blatantly representing Bolt at the conference. Like, maybe he's, you know, figuring it out.
Speaker 2:It is funny that both of these guys, you know, we joke about leverage on the show, but it is obviously a joke and for entertainment purposes only. But Dom and Breslow clearly love leverage because, you know, Breslow was building building a product to help, help employees get, what was it? It was to take out loans against un unvested or or vested, you know, illiquid shares. Dom is now building a product to help you buy I mean, what what I I actually looked through his website before this, and it's kind of an interesting thing where there's this dynamic. He puts it on the website very plainly that you can go see it, which is, if you're walking around your neighborhood and or or somewhere and you see a house that you like, you wanna buy it, like, good houses go fast.
Speaker 2:And so if you're sitting on your house and you need to roll that equity into the new home, it can be almost impossible to get a deal done. Right? And so having having a short term loan that's backed against the equity in your old home that allows you to quickly roll into something else, theoretically, if everything goes to plan, would work pretty well. So I think it's an interesting concept and, I believe in second chances, and I hope both of them figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's close on Santiago, good friend of the show. It's the last slide in the deck. He says Friday energy and posts a video of a of a weightlifter. I thought this guy was gonna deadlift this.
Speaker 1:Is that him?
Speaker 2:That's that's Santiago. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No way. I I I thought there was a chance, but this is so insane because I thought he was gonna deadlift it because it's like 300 pounds or something like that. And I was like, okay. He's he's doing it. He's he's, hang cleaning it or or, power cleaning it from the floor multiple times.
Speaker 1:It's like one of the most impressive lifts I've ever seen. So, congratulations to Santiago. This is brother of the week material in my opinion. You know, it's gonna be a crazy week. So I don't know if we're gonna give away yet, but, keep posting stuff like this on x.
Speaker 1:I don't care if it gets Yeah. 200 likes, 2,000 likes, 2,000,000 likes. It's just positivity on the timeline, and I I'm I'm here for it.
Speaker 2:An absolute dog. That's a great place to end.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for watching everyone. Please go give us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Leave us a review and put an ad for your company, a company you work for, a company you just like. Throw it in the comments. We'll read it live on the show.
Speaker 1:And, yeah. Follow us on X. Stay tuned for more. We got plenty more coming this week. Salute.
Speaker 2:We'll see you tomorrow, brothers.
Speaker 1:See you tomorrow. Have
Speaker 2:a good one.
Speaker 1:Bye.