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If you're enjoying The Work of Warriors, I'd love to invite you to The Red Heart Collective, a live membership for people who are ready to better understand their nervous systems, increase their capacity, and create lasting change.
The podcast is where we have conversations about mental wellness. The Collective is where we do the work.
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What happens when the person who always helps everyone else loses everything?
In this episode of The Work of Warriors, Kim Rapach sits down with comedian, entrepreneur, and creator of Stand Up Comedy Sit Down Yoga, Stephen Campbell, for an honest conversation about resilience, grief, burnout, trauma, and rebuilding your life after everything falls apart.
Growing up surrounded by the opioid epidemic, Stephen learned early how to survive loss and become the person everyone depended on. Years later, after building a successful social impact company, he unexpectedly lost everything and was forced to confront the same question so many high performers face: Who am I if I can no longer save everyone else?
Together, Kim and Stephen explore the relationship between nervous system healing, emotional resilience, therapy, self-awareness, and the daily habits that create lasting mental wellness. They also discuss why healing isn't a quick fix, how humor can become a powerful tool for connection, and why sustainable success requires taking care of yourself before taking care of everyone else.
Whether you're an artist, entrepreneur, leader, or someone navigating loss, burnout, or personal transformation, this episode is a powerful reminder that healing isn't about perfection. It's about continuing to show up, one day at a time.
The Work of Warriors is the podcast where artists, creatives, entrepreneurs, and high performers learn how to succeed without sacrificing their mental wellness.
Because success shouldn't cost you your peace.
Thank you for listening to The Work of Warriors.
If this episode encouraged you, please consider following the show, leaving a review, and sharing it with someone who could benefit.
To learn more about private coaching, The Red Heart Collective, speaking, or upcoming retreats, visit kimrapach.com.
Until next time, keep doing the work that helps you become a stronger, steadier warrior.
Creators and Guests
Guest
Stephen Campbell
Stephen Campbell is a comedian, entrepreneur, speaker, and social impact innovator on a mission to make mental wellness more accessible through laughter and human connection. He is the creator of Stand Up Comedy Sit Down Yoga, a groundbreaking live experience that blends stand-up comedy, storytelling, yoga, breathwork, and meditation to help people navigate stress, burnout, trauma, and life's everyday challenges. After building and losing a successful social impact company, Stephen rebuilt his life with a new perspective on resilience, mental health, and sustainable success. His work combines humor with honest conversations about grief, identity, healing, and the realities of personal growth, reminding audiences that while the work is hard, no one has to do it alone.
What is The Work of Warriors?
**Success shouldn’t cost you your peace.**
Welcome to *The Work of Warriors*, the mental health and wellness podcast for the entertainment industry—created for the artists, creatives, and industry professionals building extraordinary careers without wanting to lose themselves in the process.
Hosted by former therapist and nervous system strategist Kim Rapach, The Work of Warriors explores the human side of working in entertainment: the pressure to perform, the uncertainty between opportunities, the demands of creative careers, and the challenge of staying grounded in an industry that can ask so much of the people who make it possible.
Through honest conversations with actors, musicians, filmmakers, comedians, producers, executives, entrepreneurs, and other industry leaders, we explore what it actually takes to thrive personally while building something meaningful professionally.
Together, we’re changing the conversation around mental wellness in entertainment by:
• Normalizing honest conversations about mental health and the realities of creative careers
• Exploring practical tools for nervous system regulation, emotional resilience, and greater capacity
• Challenging the belief that burnout, self-abandonment, and constant hustle are simply the price of success
• Redefining success to include well-being, healthy relationships, boundaries, authenticity, and sustainable careers
Whether you’re navigating burnout, anxiety, rejection, creative pressure, career uncertainty, life after a big project, or the complicated relationship between your identity and your work, The Work of Warriors is a place for conversations that remind you: You can love the work without losing yourself to it.
Because a healthier entertainment industry starts with healthier humans.
When artists are well, everybody wins.
Thank you for being part of the conversation, and for helping create a healthier entertainment industry, one brave conversation at a time.
Kim Rapach (00:00.174)
echo cancellation or whatever. Turn it on. I guess I turned it on. Mine was on, yours was off.
Stephen Campbell (00:06.498)
Well, actual recording is higher quality. Gotcha, gotcha. Let me turn this bad boy on. Do not disturb. Get it out of sight. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm just.
and cannot have the phone anywhere near me. just like, I would always just like, you know what? It's here, it's on the desk. But then it's just, just the little rectangle, the existence of the rectangle is distraction in itself.
Kim Rapach (00:33.326)
Yep.
Kim Rapach (00:42.294)
I totally hear you. Well, hello and welcome. How are you, Steven?
Stephen Campbell (00:48.022)
I'm doing well, Kim, thank you so much for having me.
Kim Rapach (00:50.9)
Absolutely, thank you for saying yes. I was intrigued by all that you have going on. So you are a comedian and you have something really cool going on that's very unique but contributes to people's wellness. Do you wanna talk about that?
Stephen Campbell (00:59.799)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (01:12.278)
Yeah, so we're running a show called Stand Up Comedy Sit Down Yoga. And so it meshes stand up and storytelling with breathwork, yoga and meditation. And so the whole show is formatted in a way to help people with specific mental health struggles. anything from, you know, it's this combination, right? So it's so I will write out these hours of comedy that then I will work with Sam Pullen, who's a yoga therapist.
to put together these collaborations where one of the shows is discussing how overwhelming the wellness space can be. I think that a lot of the discussion around wellness is like, all you gotta do is go to a therapy session and boom, you're good. All you gotta do is do breath work. All you gotta do is, it's always this silver bullet that once you do that shit.
then you will be good. And a lot of people feel very alone when they go do it and they don't get better. Right. And so the first hour, that's kind of the overarching theme of like, look, I tried all of these different things and they worked with varying levels of success. Right. Like
therapy, for instance, I have some horror stories with therapy, right? Just because somebody is allowed to pilot your brain doesn't mean that they should be the one piloting your brain. And, you know, and try to navigate that hour of comedy in a way that's like, this is my experience. Therapy does work for some people and there are great therapists out there.
but it feels really shitty when you're in a world where everybody's like, you gotta go to therapy. only thing, you know what's wrong is you haven't gone to enough therapy and then you go and it's like a, you know, I guess we're in a podcast format. the short version of one of the stories was that I went, I was very, I grew up,
Stephen Campbell (03:38.32)
in a area that was hit very hard by the opioid crisis and I was one of only ones not on heroin. Yeah. And so what that meant was I had to help very often. Right. And so we almost got this TV show made at the beginning of twenty twenty three called The Eulogist. It was all based off of my life. And what the show was about was somebody's rise to becoming the best eulogist of all time. And
that comes from me having to be the one that gave all the eulogies growing up because I was the only one not loaded on heroin. Yeah. And so what that kind of created was this, when shit got bad, I would be the one that would have to go help, you know, that was making dinners for the families that was, we, I just.
16, 17, were shoplifting for the funeral after parties is what we called them because we didn't have a word for it. And so then that persona keeps on snowballing. You build in like the only one to make it out alive and you build in like all these different things. And so.
where that eventually got me was starting multiple companies to help a lot of people and working with a lot of nonprofits and raising a lot of money and doing it all in a way that was the cup was not overflow with thing. You know, it was very much pouring out every drop that was in that cup. And so got to this place
where the last company I was running before this one, it was all using comedy shows as a conduit for corporate giving. so using comedy shows as a conduit for corporate giving. And so we would do a show for Salesforce with comics from HBO and Netflix to raise money for American Cancer Society. Right. And so like that format, you know, we worked like 500 or so companies.
Kim Rapach (05:29.368)
Can you say that again?
Kim Rapach (05:35.278)
Mmm.
Kim Rapach (05:46.434)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (05:51.025)
and so,
that.
it won't go too far in the weeds because it brought on a person. And we were working on a project together and that person was suffering from borderline personality disorder. And short version, she extorted me, destroyed the whole company and all that. And so...
All that to say that was kind of where I was like, okay, I've lost everything. Kind of really tied my personality and my identity around being the one that would help and being the one that like, you know, we're about to give all these Ted talks and discussions on like how we can change economic structures by creating business models that are around artistic pursuit and social impact. created my own masters in social enterprise and all this sort of stuff. And so
when I lost everything. There was a...
Stephen Campbell (07:03.946)
a rebuilding process, you know, and kind of like very much a starting from scratch, right? I lost everything. And so...
And I guess if you thought it would be hard to get information out of me for the podcast.
Kim Rapach (07:26.114)
That wasn't going to be my question was the how you got here, I mean.
Stephen Campbell (07:29.548)
Yeah, So when I lost everything, there was very much a, you it's one of those things that in retrospect, you're like, OK, well, it was good that that happened. Because there was a, you know, I was going in a direction, things were very successful. And, you know, from a comedy standpoint, from a social impact standpoint, everything was moving. But there was zero attention put.
towards taking care of myself. Everything was how do we help as many people as we can, how do we maximize as much as we can, how do we productivity, et cetera, et And then you lose everything and you're kind of licking wounds for a while. And so that was like, you know, kind of starting to explore therapy and.
gratitude and I've been doing yoga but more so from a place of like fitness then it was like a mental health tool and started getting into breath work and all this way of stuff because your boy had some free time you know and so so yeah so the first hour of comedy is kind of going through that time span and what
Kim Rapach (08:31.694)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (08:55.808)
utilizing some of these wellness tools and utilizing therapy and utilizing like all of these different mental health tools. Call it a Yelp review of wellness, so to speak, right? Just some of the stuff that works, some of it didn't. And so that is the not so short version of the short version of one of the hours that we're going through. But...
after losing the company was doing a lot of like non-profit consulting and like doing
Brand partnership type stuff and event marketing and stuff like that for nonprofits. so November of last year was kind of when I was back in a mental head space to be like, you know, I've been doing comedy for 11 years throughout that whole process and kind of this thing of like, okay, well, if you're going to make this comedy thing work, you've got to take all this business infrastructure and all these things that you've learned throughout the years, put it behind this one show.
and also back with the mindset of like, do we make a positive impact and how do we maximize that impact? And so the whole foundation of what we're trying to do with this show is move more people out of a place of fear towards a place of love using the show. No, thank you. And so doing that through laughter and making people feel less alone and helping people relate and see.
Kim Rapach (10:18.998)
I love that.
Stephen Campbell (10:29.654)
that they're not alone in that struggle of trying to get better. But then also by making a lot of these mental health tools more accessible, breath work, yoga and meditation, and doing it in narrative fashion so that people are actually utilized.
Kim Rapach (10:45.506)
That's amazing. I love that. I think your story is so important because we live in a world that says if you hustle and if you build and if you succeed and if you make money and if you make an impact, that you'll be okay. And it's really anything can change your entire life. And it can be another person. And it can be something that you never expected.
Stephen Campbell (10:47.756)
Thank you.
Kim Rapach (11:12.614)
And, your story on top of just, you know, the realities of life that tragedy can happen and illnesses happen and accidents happen. and then this is a whole nother ballgame, right? Like a whole nother person just has, and I think, you know, it's so relevant in today's world that one person can have that kind of power and negative power.
And so I mean, to share your lived experience, I think is really important. And I appreciate you sharing that. You know, we have a, we have a lot in common. You know, you were saying like you were building and building and building, but you weren't taking care of yourself. Right. And so I built a therapy practice that I had for 10 years. I was, I don't even know if you know this, but I was a therapist. Yeah. Okay. So I had a therapy practice and it was very successful.
Stephen Campbell (12:02.744)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (12:08.746)
And it did very well. And I was very happy until I wasn't because I just thought, you know, I could, as long as I could just keep having an impact and as many people as I could help them, you know, the more people I could help, the more impact, the happier I would be. And there just came where there was, there just weren't enough hours in the week to help enough people to satisfy what I was actually running from. Right. you know,
What I think where we struggle because you said you've had a lot of horror stories. think a lot of therapists, we tend to be, I won't say everybody, but we tend to be codependent. And so we do regulate our nervous system by helping other people. And we don't realize that we're doing that. Right. I mean, I think the cliche is therapists are the ones with the problems and they're avoiding their own to deal with everyone else's. I won't say I was avoiding my own, but I didn't understand the nervous system.
and I didn't understand what I was gaining deeply from my work until I couldn't do enough work to feel happy. so...
Stephen Campbell (13:17.41)
Can I ask from like a micro level, what does the mindset look like where you're like, my God, life is blowing up in my face. Today was horrible and my patients coming in five minutes and I need to get my game face on. Like, what does that process look like?
Kim Rapach (13:43.406)
That's a great question no one has ever asked me that. It's a great question.
Stephen Campbell (13:46.956)
That's all I think about when, because yeah, nevermind. But yeah, please.
Kim Rapach (13:51.746)
Yeah. So I will say I tried very hard to make sure that I was living in integrity and that I was not bringing anything obviously to my office, but there were, you know, a few occasions where I was like, I don't know how to help people now. Cause I'm so frustrated or mad or sad. and so I, I feel like had I known then how to regulate my nervous system, I could have, been more fluid in that.
I always had a little practice before I saw each client. I would just take, even if it was 30 seconds or a couple of minutes where I would reset and kind of let go of the previous story and then, you know, make space for the new story. but when you're dysregulated like that, I think if you are someone, if you are a therapist who has say a lot of trauma or complex trauma, you are a master likely of compartmentalization. And so you.
you know, you're there to serve. Like most people who have a lot of trauma learned very early on how to take care of other people and how to dissociate almost from their own emotions. Does that answer your question?
Stephen Campbell (15:03.5)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. And one thing, know, so much of this is just balance, right? I think that sometimes we over-therapize if that's, do we say therapize? Is that the word? And I think that one of the things in that conversation about balance is sometimes I try to figure out what is the correct balance with that.
compartmentalization. Because like one of the things with comedy that's great is I can just go up on stage and be like, this horrible shit happened to me today. And I'll talk about it in front of strangers. And during that period that we were just talking about, anybody that even dared ask how I was doing, was like, how am I doing? I just lost my whole company. And I think that, you know, I'm like, I
haven't cried in 10 years and I don't know what that's all about. And I would just like, got all of it. And so there's, and there is that added thing when you are a comedian and that is like kind of like the job description and something that I do find therapeutic value in. But before, granted like, know, take some stuff to stage, but I was
really good at compartmentalization and I was really good at just the worst shit in the world would happen. I'd be like, okay, that sucked. Keep it moving. And I think that like right now, like you see like kind of in the world in general, there's like, you know, my, my wife is CEO of a mental health nonprofit. And did you hear
kind of how the conversations move in that space. And it's almost like sacrilege to bring up the idea of resilience. You know what I mean? it don't, you know what I mean? Like in a lot of like, sometimes the answer is buck the fuck up. You know, sometimes you're right, you know, and, and, then.
Stephen Campbell (17:25.56)
Sometimes it is, you know, like, let's feel it. Let's get in those feels. Let's talk about it. And finding that balance, you know, sometimes, you know, like in running the business, kind of running it through like a call it a lean period, just paid for a wedding, just all this sort of stuff. And like that takes a little bit of like, okay, we're going resilience. We're going frugal. We're going like, you know,
we don't really have room at the moment to be feeling all the feelings type thing. And so I, if, and I don't even know if this is like, this isn't a very well-formed question, but how do you typically talk to people about finding that balance between resiliency and.
feeling the feelings and compartmentalization.
Kim Rapach (18:26.572)
Yeah, that's such an important, yeah. It's an important question. It's an important concept. And as a former therapist, I have a bit of a different perspective. So you said, you know, maybe we over-therapize, you know, if we're making up words, but I definitely think we over-diagnose people. And I think that does a great disservice to...
everybody, you know, to diagnose everybody to having depression and anxiety and generalized anxiety and OCD and ADHD, like, I'm not saying that those things don't exist. But when you are giving a diagnosis to everyone, or nearly everyone, you're disempowering people's lived experience. Right? When you go through some shit, whether in childhood, adulthood, when you experience something traumatic,
Stephen Campbell (19:13.496)
for sure.
Kim Rapach (19:22.752)
our mental health system says, okay, well, here's what's wrong with you. Right. And I take more of a perspective of here's how that experience landed in your body. And then we're going to teach you how to regulate your nervous system, because healing from trauma isn't about not ever feeling negative emotions. We know how to do that. But it's about experiencing joy and experience the highs of life, experiencing that resiliency, that power, that hope that maybe some people have never even had.
Stephen Campbell (19:32.93)
Hmm.
Kim Rapach (19:52.94)
Right. And so, and then the second thing when we're over diagnosing people were, I mean, you know, the mental health system very well. It's hard to create. It's hard to find good quality care for people who truly, truly need it because the system is overloaded. Right. And so I take more of a perspective now in if we were to teach everyone how to regulate their nervous system.
Stephen Campbell (20:10.072)
Mm.
Kim Rapach (20:21.816)
how to get into their breath, how to get into their body, how to not be afraid of the painful emotions, but to also teach them, I think the balance that you're asking me about, I would say is how to feel all of your emotions and how to not get stuck in any of them. And so how to move through. So if you're experiencing grief, you move through the grief, not that grief ever goes away, but...
know, if you're angry to move through it, instead of just shutting it down by numbing out or dissociating or, you know, partying it away or whatever. And then so that you can also experience the days there's like, my god, impressionate life is amazing. Because what happens is people numb and this is a Brené Brown thing. That's not it's not mine. But when you know, you can't numb selectively. And so if you're numbing the painful emotions, you can't experience the good ones.
You just kind of go through life kind of meh, kind of flat. And so I think that balance is like, yeah, I can feel the depths of my emotion. And also if I go through them and I practice taking good care of myself, I can also experience like the magical sunset of life, right? So I think it's more the waves of going through all of it.
Stephen Campbell (21:41.366)
Yeah, I, that, so, so that event that we were talking about was definitely a catalyst to like, to like really start taking it seriously, but kind of the first time that I ever like dabbled with therapy, was, this thing of, I hadn't, I didn't know how to cry. I hadn't cried for over a decade. And, I was, but I understood.
that that just meant that I was living in this low wavelength of emotion, right? Because also joy wasn't really the best things would happen to me. I just went, cool. That was kind of the extent of the response. so it was kind of this thing of trying to dig in and be like, OK, well, let's learn how to cry.
with the thought that I think that will allow for the peaks to be a little bit peakier as well. Which, still not great at crying. And it is funny that I view it that way, that I'm just like, I've seen better criers. Okay, good, look at us. We're evening each other out. But it's something that I have to have like a
Kim Rapach (23:01.87)
I'm a really good one.
Stephen Campbell (23:10.018)
really focused. Like I have to be like something really sad will happen and I have to be like, okay, hey, that was a really sad one. So let's, let's like, have to try and I can't cry for long because if I do ever start crying, there's a voice in my head. It's like, look at you. Look at you crying. That's so impressive.
And then pretty quickly I'm just like, okay, well now that's been replaced by patting myself on the back. So I'm not crying anymore. But yeah, I know when I feel it, when it happens, I'm just like, God, I wish I could tap into that more often. But I just don't, I don't know how to tap into it that often. It's a thing that I...
Kim Rapach (23:46.574)
Crying is so good for you though. It's so good for you.
Stephen Campbell (24:07.106)
talk about on stage, but I had this therapist and she would cry during all my stories. And she would just cry. She would tell me how messed up it was that happened and nobody should ever have that happen to you. And she would just cry during all my stories. And every time all I could think was like, wow, I am so good at stories. Like I'm fucking killing at therapy, you know, right?
And so then I would just like, I have joke notebooks everywhere, right? And they just got to the point that I would only jot sad stories when I thought of the sad stories because I was just like, this is gonna kill with Vanessa tonight. know, like I'm like, she's a Kleenex box back your way Vanessa. And so, but what that did, unbeknownst to her, was it.
Kim Rapach (24:36.942)
Eugh.
Stephen Campbell (25:04.066)
did kind of like start to create those neural map or pathways or whatever you want to call it where.
you know, this huge portion of stories had kind of been lock and key shut down. And so in that process of like jotting down and kind of mining for sad stories, it did kind of start to like change the mindset a little bit. And it kind of got me more to this place of closer to the place of being able to cry.
Kim Rapach (25:40.3)
Were you allowed to cry when you were little?
Stephen Campbell (25:43.512)
It was definitely a I will give you something to try about type of response Not that my pops was abusive just that you know, an Irish family. That's just how that shit was dealt with But yeah crying was definitely seen as a weakness thing
Kim Rapach (26:05.772)
Isn't that interesting though? Like I'm so fascinated by how the nervous system works and how developmentally we pick up survival mechanisms, right? And so if you're little and you, know, whether directly or indirectly pick up like, okay, well, dad's going to look for something or, know, give me something to cry about and or crying as weak, right? Like as an adult here, you sit going,
Stephen Campbell (26:11.48)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (26:35.744)
I just can't tap into it, right? Like, who's gonna go looking for something to cry for cry about? Because you learn so little, like, we don't need to find anything. It's fine. I won't cry. Right. And so it's translated, you know, decades later. And so yeah, I don't know. That's just what comes up for me. Like, I feel like it's, you know, I don't mean to coach you, but I guess I am.
Stephen Campbell (27:00.012)
Yay, Coach Away, Coach Away.
Kim Rapach (27:02.7)
Give yourself permission. It's safe now, Stephen. It's okay. It's a strength, I promise.
Stephen Campbell (27:05.964)
Yeah, and I think I, not only have I given myself permission, I was actively like trying to figure out how to do it, but it is a thing that.
Stephen Campbell (27:23.362)
The amount of death that we're talking about is child soldier levels of death that I was dealing with. To the point that literally when I was in college, one of the child soldiers from Uganda, I believe it was, came and spoke in front of the school and talked about how many friends he had lost. And I just remember being like, this is rookie numbers. Just being like, that's not even close. And so when that level...
and you constantly have to be the one taking care of everything for the funeral from 16 to 22 years old. The layers of onion that have to be peeled back to get to that onion scent that will make you cry, it's a lot. And so, you know, I've in...
Kim Rapach (28:01.367)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (28:08.589)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (28:15.148)
Yeah. Well, what came up for me is like the layers of the onion is like layers of armor, right? Cause you were like living literally having to be prepared for the next death, the next overdose, the next funeral, right? And so of course you just armor up. Yeah. That makes so much sense to me.
Stephen Campbell (28:33.602)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, and there is, know, and I've less this mindset, but there, when kind of starting that process, there was the fear that you're just like, you know, if you open this all the way up, like, you're not going to be able to be a functioning human being for quite some time. You know, and it's also. Yeah.
Kim Rapach (28:56.705)
You know that is such a common fear for people who wrestle like I don't if I start crying I may never stop.
Stephen Campbell (29:04.342)
Yeah, yeah. And it's also this funny thing, because we wrote the TV show and I created this TV show and we were going to move out to LA to get it made. But the show was all about that time. And I think the jury is still out to know if that was therapeutically good or therapeutically bad for me personally. Because you live in that.
Kim Rapach (29:27.67)
If it was, okay, there you go.
Stephen Campbell (29:33.438)
you're constantly writing and editing and having to have discussions with like TV executives where you're just, they're like, Hey, what if you edited this part out? I'd be like, no, that fucking happened. They're like, people would say like, that part is going to be a little rough for the audience to take. And like, and you'd have to fight for like, no, that happened. And I'm not watering down the story kind of a thing. And when you're doing that all the time, you do, there is an arrested development type.
situation that kind of happened because you'll find yourself kind of in thought patterns from that time when you're rewriting dialogue that people said at the time and having to put together pitch decks of like what was this place like how how did it feel what did people look like what you know what did they wear so yeah and so now it's kind of this thing of like
Maybe it's not... When people are like, well, you try to pick up the TV show again. It's kind of nice to not have to relive that all the time. But it would also be really nice to make a TV show. So we're figuring it out.
Kim Rapach (30:44.174)
Sure.
Sure. Maybe a different TV show.
Stephen Campbell (30:51.53)
Yeah, maybe indeed. it's also this thing that like...
Stephen Campbell (30:58.172)
It is a story that I would like to be told.
because they're all dead and I'm kind of one of the only ones that can tell that story and tell it in a way that when we're talking addicts specifically the way that they're portrayed on television are usually pretty dehumanizing right it's usually some version of you know the
Kim Rapach (31:15.542)
Hmm.
Stephen Campbell (31:34.712)
crackhead on the street that assaults a lady or the heroin addict that's stealing from this person and taking copper out of walls from a meth head, know, like that sort of stuff. And the way that we tell the story is much more like through a comedic lens. And it is this thing of like, this is what it looks like to be the only sober person.
the heroin addicts as people start developing that addiction.
Kim Rapach (32:11.448)
Sounds pretty powerful. Where are you located?
Stephen Campbell (32:12.664)
I am in Austin, Texas at the moment. Yeah, what about you? Okay. Yeah, we're trying to bring the show up there soon. Yeah, yeah, we'll for sure. Yeah, we the goal is to help 10 million people with the mental health do the show. And so we part of that is through corporate
Kim Rapach (32:17.102)
Okay. Chicago, the suburbs. Yeah.
Well you better let me know.
That would be amazing.
Stephen Campbell (32:40.778)
events. So we're doing a lot of corporate events and helping that way. Growing the Ticketed Show and trying to rekindle some of these conversations with like the Netflix's and the Hulu's to see if we can get the special recorded that way. And so there will be a much heavier PR marketing push probably towards the end of the year beginning and next. This process right now is just like really getting the show down pat.
and making sure that it's resonating the way we'd like it to resonate and that it's making the impact that we would like it to make. But yeah, we'll definitely be touring it soon. Right now we're kind of in the lab trying to make it great before we start traveling too much with it.
Kim Rapach (33:16.696)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (33:27.79)
Sure, sure. So Stephen, to switch gears a bit. you had, I mean, you were winning, right? Things were going well, you were building, you were having a great impact, and then you lost everything.
Stephen Campbell (33:42.742)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (33:46.584)
How would you describe your darkest season?
Stephen Campbell (33:51.864)
Darkest season
Kim Rapach (33:53.698)
Like if I was a fly on the wall, what was your darkest days of that?
Stephen Campbell (33:59.218)
think that I didn't.
I think that I didn't know what my darkest was until retrospect, like I kind of got past it. Darkest was right out of college. I started right out of college. I started a new job and I moved up to Minnesota. I was...
Kim Rapach (34:09.528)
Sure.
Stephen Campbell (34:26.558)
small company, five people. I was the youngest by about 30 years and they had me traveling like 80, 90 percent. The week before, buried one friend. The day before, buried one of my best friends and then red-eyed from the funeral to this place and
Dude I was working with that was showing me around was just like extreme racist. And we were in the car for six, seven hours, like twice a week, almost every single week. And so no real friends to speak of, because I was traveling all the time. No real time to get over, because I was in meetings within 48 hours of.
of burying my friend and then we just kind of started going. So there was pretty much like a two year span where there was no social connection outside of friends that I had from like college and elsewhere that like I would go to music festivals and was very much like the small bright spots in a rather dismal period.
But yeah, mean, and a lot of it, there's a lot of fun, like funny shit that comes from the darkest times, right? Like there was this guy. So like I moved in to my own place right out of college and immediately it was like, is, I have no social life at all. Like I should probably move into a place and like find roommates.
And so I move into this place in Minneapolis and I cannot tell you how I even found this place. And there was two roommates and one of them, I show up and I start moving my shit in. He's chained smoking cigarettes on the porch.
Stephen Campbell (36:31.512)
And, you know, doesn't lift a finger, watches, watches me do it. And as I'm like closing up, you know, I was going to go back to the other place, sweep up and finish up or whatever. And he just looks and he's just like, hey, I'm making spaghetti tonight. Flicks his cigarette like right, right at me. And he's just like, you should come. I was like, OK, well, I live here now, so I'm probably going to be present for spaghetti time. And
So I, you know, whatever, get a bottle of wine and like, it's literally just spaghetti with like ragu sauce poured on it, right? Like no shade, but why are we making a big deal about this? And so sit down with him afterwards and he, we're eating and we're like coffee table eating and
The conversation's like, you know, it's very insane. But then he. This like the the second, like like the half of second that he has finished and put his plate down or put his fork down, he just looks at me like, you clean the fucking dishes or what? And I was just like, OK. And I was like in such shock that like and also you're like in this place of like. You know, needing to make connection in a place that you don't know anybody and so like kind of like just like
on the ropes, so to speak, a little bit. And so he told me he's like, you're clean the dishes or what? I just kind of like started getting the dishes and like, I didn't get to the kitchen before I was just like, no, what are you doing? Like, why did you just let that guy talk to you like that? And so I was like, whatever, it's not a big deal. Literally it was ragu and spaghetti. It's not like there's a lot of dishes that need to be cleaned. And two minutes into...
cleaning the dishes, he comes in, he's like, hey, I'm gonna need 40 bucks. that's just like, you know, at this point in time, I've kind of like recalibrated and I was like, no, I'm not gonna give you that. And he was like, look, I need the 40 bucks. I owe somebody else 40 bucks. And so I'm gonna take your $40 and pay him off. And then as soon as I can find somebody to give me $40, I'll give you.
Stephen Campbell (38:59.352)
that $40 back. And I was just like, no, I don't think I can do that. And then he just blows a fucking gasket. He's like, I made you dinner. I've made you dinner. I need the $40. And so this is like, we're four hours into living together at this point in time. And I was just like, oh, god damn it. I was like, and so he that night,
Kim Rapach (39:19.3)
my god.
Stephen Campbell (39:27.316)
I go out and like, was trying to like go to meetup groups. I was trying to just like try very desperately to like get some sort of connection. just like, it just wasn't happening. And I remember this was like kind of in the heyday of like people were dying at a very alarming rate. And so a friend had committed suicide the day before that I moved in. And I go to this meetup and I'm sorry this is so depressing, but I guess you did just ask like what my dark is.
and yeah, yeah. And so, I go to this meetup group and I'm bummed because, the whole suicide thing and we, this, this lady, yeah, there was grieving. didn't like, didn't know what grieving was because I was just kind of in a constant grief. And, we get there and this lady.
Kim Rapach (39:58.158)
I set it up. It's okay.
Kim Rapach (40:12.682)
I'm
Stephen Campbell (40:26.296)
Her cat had died like two months ago and it was like a bowling thing and she stopped like nobody was bowling. Everybody was just like, Mary Ann, tell us more. Tell us about. And then so we just sat there and listened to this lady like wax philosophically about her dead cat that died two months ago. And I just remember kind of just sitting in the back and being like, no, this isn't it either. This isn't it either. And so I come home to this house.
and it's pitch black and I look left and the flame is on in the stove, right? And I turn on the light and this dude is just standing at the stove in pitch darkness making more spaghetti and it's any, do you ever see step brothers? You know how they like freak out when
Kim Rapach (41:22.05)
Yes.
Stephen Campbell (41:25.304)
like how they look when they freak out when you're there sleepwalking. Yeah. That when I turn on the lights, I was like, Oh, you okay? I was just, I was just making spaghetti in the dark and I was just like, Oh, okay. That's not normal, but you're saying it like it's normal. And he's like, I was just making spaghetti in the dark. I'm a spaghetti in the dark. He's like, do you want any ambient? And I was just like, no.
I'm okay, thank you though for the ambient offering. And so then I walk out, he turns the lights back off and continues making spaghetti in the dark. so then the next morning, I like opened my eyes at like seven o'clock.
and his head is just in the door crease of my room. And I wake up pretty quickly at that. also envision, envision the bloated corpse of all the Beatles merged into one person. don't.
Just like he's not doing well, right? And cause all he does is eat spaghetti and ragu all the time and eat ambient. And so he, he's just like, he just keeps his head there. It doesn't say shit until I finally am like, Hey, you, are we good? And he's like, he's like, I want to take you to McDonald's. And I'm like, Oh no, he says, I want to take you to breakfast. And I was just like, okay, well, I'm gonna.
kind of sleep a little bit longer. You know, I think it was like Saturday or whatever. He's like, no, no, no, you got to do it early. Let's go. Come on. My treat. I'll bring you breakfast. And and I was like, again, there's like some red flags that you ignore when you're just so desperate to be like, OK, well, let's connect with humans. And this is the human that lives with me. And I was like, all right, let's do it. Let's go get breakfast. Where are you thinking? He's like, we're going to McDonald's. And I was like, OK. And he's like,
Stephen Campbell (43:48.012)
get your stuff on, I'll get the car started, I'll give you a ride. And I was like, okay. Keeping in McDonald's is across the street. Like it is, it is like, we're on a college campus, it is a 20 minute, or 20 step walk away from our place. But it is winter in Minnesota. And so, I...
He's like, I'll give you a ride. And I was like, I don't think I need a ride. He's like, no, I'll give you a ride. Don't worry about it. Come on. Like, I'll give you a ride. I was like, OK. And so I get my shit on and I go in and he's like chain smoking cigarettes in the car. And it's just like hot box with cigarette smoke. And I'm just like, oh, this is OK. So let's just let's go. And so we get into the drive through. He orders like enough to feed a small army. And then he's like, hey, you got this since I drove. Right.
Kim Rapach (44:30.67)
Thank
Stephen Campbell (44:43.54)
And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so at that point in time, I'd already developed, I was like, there's something sincerely wrong with this person. That night, you could hear him making noises as he's sleeping, really guttural noises. So I had that lease for six.
Kim Rapach (44:45.23)
No he didn't.
Stephen Campbell (45:10.814)
months and I stayed at the apartment six nights and I asked my boss to just be like every trip I'm I will go on every single business trip that you Need no matter what country no matter what place like and so like he saw it as like wow Look at this employees so proactive, but I was like no I can't be at my house because I might die And so so yeah, so that was you know
There's levity in those darker times, but he was just very representative of just like, was just like, fuck, I just can't win. But yeah, being in Minnesota was probably the darkest.
Kim Rapach (45:56.29)
Well, and I would imagine at the time you're just trying to survive, right? Trying to stay alive, trying to not make this guy lose his shit. Like in retrospect, I mean, how do you think you felt like now looking back, like, were you terrified? Were you frozen? Were you dissociated?
Stephen Campbell (46:14.232)
there was definitely always a level of,
Stephen Campbell (46:26.52)
physical indicators that I was not doing well that I didn't really see as those physical indicators, Like clenching my jaw like crazy to the point that I was like driving some of my teeth like through my gum. Like I was just, and there was different, you know, at that point in time when we were talking about sleep was not happening.
you know, and I was in hotels all the time and I was just like in, I'm sorry, I was just in middle of nowhere, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, we're always in like Sheboygan, Wisconsin and stuff like that, which beautiful place, no shade to Sheboygan. I don't need all the, I know, but we don't need the Sheboyganites all coming out.
Kim Rapach (47:09.632)
Well, who doesn't love to say sheboygan?
Stephen Campbell (47:16.886)
That is actually where the Kohler facility is. So anytime you see a Kohler faucet, it came from Sheboygan, Wisconsin. And so I forgot why I saying that. Sorry, what was the question? I I was just kind of rambling.
Kim Rapach (47:24.494)
You
Kim Rapach (47:36.172)
I was just asking you, looking back how you think you were feeling, said there were physical indicators.
Stephen Campbell (47:40.024)
Sure, sure. And I was drinking, know, especially like when you're on these trips, you're by yourself, you have a company card, and you're just in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do. So I would just be like, just drinking with a bunch of good old boys all the time.
Kim Rapach (47:46.221)
Gotcha.
Stephen Campbell (47:59.766)
You know, we'd always stay at the Holiday Inn Express that had free Miller Lite happy hours in Wisconsin. Pro tip, if you're ever in the middle of nowhere Wisconsin, stay at a Holiday Inn Express. They will give you cheese and Miller Lite for free. yeah. yeah. Well, I mean, it's good marketing. I remember exactly where to stay. And so, yeah, there was
Kim Rapach (48:08.782)
you
Kim Rapach (48:18.2)
Keep them coming back.
Kim Rapach (48:26.35)
That's right.
Stephen Campbell (48:29.59)
A lot of drinking, you know, like I said, I was going to a lot of these music festivals, which I will say that was very much a saving grace. I've met a lot of incredible people, was exposed to a lot more open minded people than I was in like work and where I was living and stuff like that. There was a lot of drug use, you know, and usually in a
way that I would consider therapeutic, although that wasn't really what we were thinking. you know, it would be taking mushrooms in a way that you're kind of like seeing a more understanding and empathetic outlook on the world and stuff like that. So.
Stephen Campbell (49:28.511)
The idea or the thought of any sort of wellness at that point in time was just really outside of the scope of what I even thought of, considered, anything like that. I was playing rugby and I think that before these kind of concepts started to materialize or even be presented to me, contact sports with
lots of physical release was kind of the main healthy therapeutic thing that I did. You know, because I say healthy in quotes because that also included like usually a lot of binge drinking when you're playing rugby and lots of dudes. When you play like a really intense contact sport, it's usually a 50-50 split of people on your team that some...
the most well adjusted people in the world and this is just the place that they keep that aggression. The other 50 % are that person always in every single aspect of their life and it's like scary type person. And so, mean, that's also that's what ended up getting me into yoga because I had fucked my shoulders up to such an extent that I like wanted to start to work the shoulders out. And like I said, it was first, it was more sore.
sort of a fitness thing before I started to realize like kind of therapeutic stuff. So it was like going to the music festivals kind of started to open me up to this like other way of looking at the world from an empathetic way from just open-minded in general. Like when you go to these things, there's just like lots of people walks of different life, et cetera. And
Also, while I was growing with that company, the company started to pivot a little bit into like military contracting type thing. And so I got started making very good money because I was getting these contracts and kind of, I know that time is short, but so short version was ended up the
Kim Rapach (51:36.11)
So, have a time.
Stephen Campbell (51:44.907)
International Symposium of Ballistics. And so that is a symposium with all the top explosives experts in the world and all of the representatives from each country. so India is kicking it with Pakistan. Japan's kicking it with China. And that's when they were beefing over some islands. And all of these dudes that on the geopolitical stage are worst enemies were getting drunk and having the best
Kim Rapach (51:58.478)
Mm.
I'm to figure out.
Stephen Campbell (52:14.456)
time, China hacked the US's presentation and gave the presentation. Everybody was like, it was like, it was like what I would imagine the Illuminati is like, where these people are making very big decisions about very large amounts of weapon deals. And so while I was there, we started bombing Syria, the US started bombing Syria. And you would have thought it was everybody's birthday.
Kim Rapach (52:21.599)
my God.
Stephen Campbell (52:42.328)
Everybody started popping bottles. They're all ordering top shelf. They're just getting shithoused and I had this like realization where first I was like I cannot believe that these people are this way and I was like dog you're in the room too and so that was kind of like you have all of these processes and
life experiences that we're working through and trying to deal with grief and then deal with like, my God, is this what life after college looks like? Is this what, you know, what adults are like, you know, and that sort of thing. And like, I'm so alone. And then it's like, shit, now I'm like dealing with it. You know, we were working with the CIA, the FBI, like all this like sort of stuff. And so then it was just kind of this thing of like, okay, well, do you need to get the
Kim Rapach (53:25.614)
Hmm.
Stephen Campbell (53:39.928)
walk out of this. Right? know, this is as much of a...
Stephen Campbell (53:51.512)
Even if the moral North Star or the highest self, whatever you want to call it, it was layered under a lot of shit for all the reasons we were talking about. But it was streaming at this thing that you're just like, you know, you got to get out because you're also the youngest person in the room by 30 years. Everybody would talk to you and talk about you like, this is the dude that's going to be.
Kim Rapach (54:05.059)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (54:19.34)
And I would see the guys and they're all cheating on their wives. They're all just like kind of just, just a moral at best type dudes. And so then that was like when I created my own masters and started figuring out like what social enterprise was about, which is like, how do you use business to make a social impact?
Kim Rapach (54:27.362)
Yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (54:43.224)
help people and that's when I started like doing a lot more in like the food space and like food justice and that sort of stuff. And yeah, and so kind of have M. Night Shyamalan Dia a little bit with the different moments, but you know, it's kind of how we got to this place. Yeah, let me...
Kim Rapach (55:05.39)
Well, I want to bounce again. If you have time.
Stephen Campbell (55:12.191)
Yeah, I do.
Kim Rapach (55:13.676)
Okay, so I just want to ask you, growing up where you did with the epidemic around you with the opioids, what was it about you that you didn't get taken out by that? How did you make it through that? How did you not fall into that when your entire community was taken out?
Stephen Campbell (55:32.567)
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (55:37.144)
I... my...
Kim Rapach (55:39.426)
Hmm.
Stephen Campbell (55:45.826)
way we did with who we did. There was not a big value put on schooling. Not from my parents where they put quite a value on it, but just kind of, you know, when you're at a school where there's gang violence at lunch and all that sort of stuff all the time, like it's just not that important. So I only made it into one college.
Kim Rapach (56:05.004)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (56:13.458)
And the only reason I made it into that college was my dad made me apply to this one college. was Northern Arizona University. And it was a saving grace because
when I was getting ready to leave for college, which I didn't want to do and told my parents that I wouldn't do, and so my dad was just like, you're out, you're kicked out of the house, and you're not welcome back. You have to go to college or you don't have a place to sleep. And so, and he didn't know the extent to which things were going, right?
but understood that this isn't the place for you to grow into an adult. And pretty much as soon as freshman year college started was when opioids and heroin really started pouring into the city. And so the people that started dying the fastest were the ones that I partied with the most back home.
that privilege and that event is very much what is the reason that I am able to be here talking to you right now. And so there is more of a...
Kim Rapach (57:40.856)
Hmm.
Stephen Campbell (57:46.936)
It's less of a guilt than it was, but you know, people talk about being the only one to make it out kind of a thing. It is an interesting thing that being the only one to make it out, not because of my own perseverance and termination and resilience and all that sort of stuff, is like I just was forced out kind of right at the same time that if...
I was right under the wire, you know, because, you know, I was a shithead teenager and we were partying and we were doing whatever was in front of us and what would have been in front of me very quickly if I had not gone to school like that and coupled with potentially getting kicked out of the house at the same time. It would have. It would have been a bad outcome for.
me.
Kim Rapach (58:48.079)
Well, I appreciate your honesty.
Stephen Campbell (58:51.144)
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I mean it it's very much a would love to paint it as a picture of I Just was this
unscathed by all of the, you know, but no. I mean, where I grew up, people did fucking drugs and people did it a lot. And it was gangs and it was drugs and it was violence and it was, you know, and I was there. And then when I left going to college, I would start telling people stories about back home.
and you would see the insane amount of recoil that when you talked to people about commonplace stories and I was just incessantly introduced to the idea like, hey, maybe that was really fucking crazy what you were just doing. And I hadn't put any thought into that. just would be, And you know, people would be like,
Kim Rapach (59:57.454)
Isn't that wild?
Stephen Campbell (01:00:02.232)
talking about how difficult senior year was and I was just like, I was like, we ditched every day. Like we just didn't go to school for a whole year. And they were like, no, that's not normal. It's like, oh, I thought that's what seniors did. He's like, no, you don't. And then like, know, ditching school meant that there would be these huge parties going on where it was...
lots of illicit stuff happening at M-word 17.
But yeah, just like that sort of stuff, talking about the frequency of fights, the frequency of stabbings, the frequency of shootings and stuff like that. And just understanding that like, that's like, got to the point that I just stopped sharing anything about back home because I was just like, it seems that I need these people to tell me what a normal childhood was supposed to be like. And the more you hear about it, the more you just be like,
Okay, maybe this wasn't it. And then so the more you get exposed to that other way of life and that other type of being, the more you, when you go back home...
And you get it in these snapshots, right? First Thanksgiving, people are actually doing like, isn't that synthetic heroin? Then there's Christmas. And you're like, OK, well, it seems like everyone's doing it now. It's like then there's like whatever. You come back for whatever break and you're like, OK, so you guys have gone from synthetic to actual heroin? Just like, OK. And then, you know, then you come back and this person killed this person because of a fight over an Xbox that they were selling because of heroin. It's like, OK.
Stephen Campbell (01:01:41.728)
And then so you would just see, I was lucky to be able to see it in snapshots and be able to see it from this third person's perspective as opposed to being in it. And was very quick. Since I saw how quickly it sucked everybody in that I was able to be like, that shit's something I'm never gonna touch. Because you would see what it would do to people's...
Kim Rapach (01:01:46.926)
Hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:01:59.31)
Thank
Stephen Campbell (01:02:08.49)
outlook on life or lack thereof, how freely they would rob and steal and hurt people, all that sort of stuff.
Kim Rapach (01:02:18.754)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (01:02:26.072)
I don't think there's enough time to put enough nuance on it, but I don't want to say like, as soon as you do a drug, you are a piece of shit type thing. it, it was just, that was the experience that I had and was able to see and be like, okay, I never want to do that. And I'm doing this school thing, which was very quickly alienated me from my friends back home. Cause there was very much like, you think you're better than us type thing where that kind of like,
Kim Rapach (01:02:41.315)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:02:55.427)
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (01:02:56.258)
you you couple that with watching everybody turn into drug addicts, then you start to get a little less close.
Kim Rapach (01:03:07.702)
Yeah. Yeah, I can I can relate to a certain extent. I grew up in a small town got myself into share trouble. But I saw an uncle fall to heavy drugs and saw what it did to him and you know, just how much it hurt to watch. And I just swore I'll never do that. So I never did hard drugs, just because it scared me not because
You I was better than anybody. I was just scared. Like, I don't want that to be me. I did plenty of other things to get myself in trouble, but yeah, I totally, I totally get it. Yeah. So, okay. So I know I've kept you quite a bit, but you're newly married, right? Congratulations. what are, you know, one, two, three things that you do to practice mental health, mental wellness, keeping yourself vertical.
Stephen Campbell (01:03:40.212)
Cheers.
Net.
Stephen Campbell (01:03:48.524)
Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Stephen Campbell (01:04:04.088)
Stephen Campbell (01:04:08.216)
Definitely the basic ones are just just exercise and eating well. Like for instance, the last like, since the wedding, so we're like a month and some change from the wedding, sugar intake has been way higher than it typically is like almost every day. And there's a very considerable mental and physical drain that that have. I make sure to do yin yoga.
at least twice a week, usually Monday and Friday. Currently on a nine day insight time or streak. I don't know if you know insight time or it's like a meditation app. You know, it's always a balancing thing, right? I know that I do best when there is no alcohol in my life ever. Sometimes I drink.
Kim Rapach (01:04:49.326)
Yep, sure do.
Stephen Campbell (01:05:06.84)
And almost always, for the next day or two, everything just feels shitty. Just my brain, my body, everything. So I have way more no drinking days than drinking days. You know, probably on pace to get to a place where it's just, alcohol is just kind of cut all the way. Doing this show.
I write every morning, you know, so typically the morning routine is wake up, do some small yoga poses with some pushups, just kind of get the blood going. Then I'll do 10 minutes of cleaning because my brain is not online and I'll just kind of putz around the house and just put things in the trash and stuff like that. Then I write for an hour and then I will work out for an hour.
And I have to get all of that done for the day to be productive afterwards. And even though that means that the day is probably going to start a little later. Otherwise, I spend all day being like, you really need to get to writing and when you're to get to writing and all that sort of stuff. And likewise, if I don't get the workout in, then my brain is just kind of a little foggier. So.
Kim Rapach (01:06:12.226)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:06:22.35)
Thank you.
Kim Rapach (01:06:30.766)
Mm hmm. I feel like if I don't work out, I spend the day very busy, but getting nothing accomplished because I can't focus. And I'm just like, well, maybe I'll do the checkbook and maybe I'll write something and it's just but if I just get up, get it done, start the day out with my morning routine. It's just the day goes and it's not like we have to be productive every day. But it's more like I just feel like I'm living my life.
Stephen Campbell (01:06:46.018)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:06:58.838)
in doing the things that I want to do, whether it's being productive or, you know, even taking a day off, but a productive day off, meaning proper rest, not scattered, disorganized, you know.
Stephen Campbell (01:07:07.832)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think what is a game changer, but also kind of heartbreaking is just coming to terms with the fact we're just programmable monkeys. You know, just coming to terms with the fact that we're just programmable monkeys. You know, just like, like, okay, yeah, sheer will will get me to this thing and I should be able to just work my way through this and I should be. But
Kim Rapach (01:07:21.368)
Say that again.
Kim Rapach (01:07:25.912)
Yes.
Stephen Campbell (01:07:38.776)
I just understand that whatever it does to my brain, the working out in the morning, I need to get the writing out of the way. I need to get some cleaning done. Otherwise that all day I'm just going to be like, the kitchen is gross. Like, I just know that these things are the way that my brain reacts to this thing. so, um, yeah. And it's also this thing that like running a company around the show and that is stressful as buck. And also I should have asked up top of them a lot of the
and cussing without asking. I'm sorry. But it is this interesting thing that you go and you get on stage and you talk to people about their mental health when you are stressed the hell out about the company that you are starting to help people with their mental health. And so there's a little bit of like imposter syndrome type of thing that happens with it but the show all kind of come from this perspective of like I don't know. And there's a lot of comedy in trying to figure that
I have a yoga therapist and her name is Sam Poon and she's a G at all of that sort of stuff. But that is her role is to really provide expertise. Mine comes from a place of the shit is hard. This is really difficult and I'm trying to figure it out. And here's comedy from the trying to figure it out process. So, thank you. And in all that to be said,
Kim Rapach (01:08:39.81)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:08:45.058)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:09:01.592)
Hmm. I love that.
Stephen Campbell (01:09:08.6)
Talk to me in two weeks and ask me the same questions about what I'm doing with my mental health. It depends on how locked in I am. It is this funny thing that if you were to actually do what the morning routine is that all of the powers that be say that you should be doing, you would do your morning routine until you fell asleep. You would do your morning routine until you fell asleep. There's just so much.
Kim Rapach (01:09:31.628)
Do you what?
Kim Rapach (01:09:36.133)
sure.
Stephen Campbell (01:09:39.512)
so many things that you need to do. like, even in that morning routine that I just talked about, that usually doesn't get me started with my work day until like 10, 45, 11 o'clock, you know, and that's tough. And most people can't do that. And so I do, I meditate much more than I have at any point in my life. But it is a thing that yoga,
typically, and then gratitude. I try to do every morning where I think of five things that I'm grateful for. And that was kind of the first thing that like dug me out of the whole, after the like whole extortion thing was in the company, was I had nothing. There was no reason to get out of bed. And so all I was fixating on was all of the horrible shit in the world and all the reasons to be upset and all this different stuff. And so like I had to like, kind of make that switch of just like...
Kim Rapach (01:10:26.392)
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (01:10:37.592)
Okay, well what is good? Fingers. Fingers are tight. I love those. And it would just kind of be like slowly, and like I just wouldn't allow myself to get out of bed until I had five. And that was the saving grace really to kind of start to dig out. so, gratitude's still high up there. Try to do visualization stuff. Try to kind of layer in as much as I can.
Kim Rapach (01:10:52.908)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:10:57.868)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:11:05.025)
Yeah. Well, I love that. And you know, I mean, everything we're talking about is mental health. And, you know, you use the term like powers that be. And I just, again, as a former therapist, I just think that mental health has been way it's been, well, it's been ignored. It's been condemned. And it's been way overcomplicated. Right. And I, know, what you're at, what you're saying is nutrition.
exercise, my chores, doing something creative, doing my writing, and moving my body, and practicing gratitude. Like, it's not, I mean, even somebody, you've had a lot of trauma, but it's re...
rewiring what's necessary. Like I know you were joking and you know, we're programmable monkeys, but it's like it's those routines. Because I think every part of those routines are, I love myself. I matter. I have I'm here for a purpose. I'm here to have an impact. I'm here to share my experience in a way that hopefully helps someone else. Yeah, it's very I mean, I love what you're doing.
Stephen Campbell (01:12:22.348)
Thank you. Yeah, and I think that kind of the overarching thing that people won't talk enough about is it's really hard. It's really hard work and we.
Kim Rapach (01:12:33.261)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (01:12:37.82)
simultaneously have a world where we are over diagnosing everything and we have to talk everything mental health this that the other and that comes into a world that's also everything needs to be as easy as possible right to my door as quick as possible and people want there to be a bisection or intersection between those two worlds it's just not right and so like so many people and I and I I don't like to
Kim Rapach (01:12:54.67)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:13:01.166)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (01:13:06.871)
Talk poorly about therapy because I understand that it really works for people. I have not had great experiences with it, but also a lot of people treat therapy as that silver bullet that I don't have to do anything to work on myself ever as long as I go to that therapist once a week. And it's like, okay, well, you know, how many hours in the week are there? If you've spent one of them talking about your feelings.
Kim Rapach (01:13:23.947)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (01:13:34.968)
That's not going to do it, but it is the thing that especially like during the 2020, 2021 period, therapy was treated like this mystery drug that if you just did some therapy, then everything will be better and you don't. And it doesn't even matter that you're addicted to everybody. Like, you know, because you went to therapy and the amount of people that would like start talking therapy talk.
where they're just like, I just like to maintain my boundaries. It's like you bombed Yemen, right? Like, you know, just like, like that, like you did horrible things, like, and you just said therapy talk while you did it. And now I'm supposed to be like, look, he fixed himself. And I say all that because the answer is it is hard work and nobody wants to hear that. And if you try to tell people that.
they, the people that want to get better the most and the people that need to get better the most, those are the ones that are most likely going to block you out when you start saying, it's like, yeah, when, when somebody asks like, how did you start to get better? And I have horrible days still, right? Always. when somebody asks that question and then they're coming from a place of like, I would really like to learn because I am not doing well.
Kim Rapach (01:14:50.392)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (01:14:58.488)
When I started saying it's all of these things, you can see their eyes gloss over and they're just like, we were, was really looking for like an app that could just make me better. Like, okay, that's not the answer I'm going to give you. And it's not the answer that anybody can give you outside of the dude that's selling a masterclass for 9.99, you know, like you're paying a thousand dollars a month just so this guy can tell you how to get better. And you pay that money because in your mind,
I found the thing. I found the easy way out. And so like, you know, I get those YouTube ads all the time, just like come to my math class and I'll make you happier and more loved and all this sort of stuff. And you're just playing on people's need for easy solutions and need to be loved. So.
Kim Rapach (01:15:51.32)
Yep. Well, I am hosting a master class on May 1st.
Stephen Campbell (01:15:55.64)
Hell yeah. Well, and some of them work. And that's the thing. It's just like therapy, right? It's just like therapy because some therapists are the best therapists and they are groundbreaking stuff. But there's also just like a lot of not. And the masterclass is the same world. Like I had a coach that was like groundbreaking, like just like really, really helped, like did more for me than like therapy. like 99 % of coaches.
Kim Rapach (01:16:00.09)
Stephen Campbell (01:16:22.624)
You know, they're just peddling some shit. And so I don't I don't believe that that is what you're doing. Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:16:28.864)
No, it's not. It's not. But it's funny. The masterclass is it's my first one. I've never done it before, but it's called Welcome Back Warrior. And it is this understanding like, it's not outside of you. It's in you. And it's it's a roadmap to help people return to themselves. Because I think that very like, is there an app? Who's the best therapist? Who's the best coach? What's the best masterclass? What's the best but the next book, the next pastor, whoever like
We're looking for someone else to save us and they're not coming. And so you have to learn how to have your own back. You have to learn to get up and move your body when you don't want to. And it is hard and you are absolutely worth every ounce of effort.
Stephen Campbell (01:17:16.354)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I appreciate that.
Kim Rapach (01:17:18.574)
Yeah.
Yeah, I know. And I quit smoking. I tried like eight times before I succeeded. And it was because I kept waiting for the time. This time it's going to be easy. This time I got it. And it was never easy. And it was just like having to go through it hard and suffering for a minute and being like, this is hardest thing I ever fricking did. And then I got on the other side, like, look what I did. And that's, I mean, I feel like this is the same. It's really hard to get up at 5 a.m. and go to the gym. It's hard to sit and force yourself to write every day. It's hard to do your chores.
Stephen Campbell (01:17:51.832)
My hard one that I am trying to find the balance right now is just trying to find the balance between being informed and not going down death spirals with the news and finding that balance. Cause all of it, they've created an addictive algorithmic way to make you watch the news, make you feel scared and then make you keep.
trying to do it. And so it is this thing of like, I'm trying to figure the best way to do it. But there's just such a remarkable difference between I went down the rabbit hole for like two hours in the middle of the day. I think it was, what's today, Thursday? I think it was last Thursday, I think. And I just remember being like, I was not well.
Kim Rapach (01:18:40.056)
Huh?
Stephen Campbell (01:18:50.36)
And then just being like, you're not allowed to look at news for a couple days. And just the insane shift in seeing, you know, it's kind of a nice day outside, hearing the birds chirping, all that sort of stuff, as opposed to just being like, you did what to who all the time, and just being like, how to get into an escape pod and all this sort of stuff.
Kim Rapach (01:18:56.844)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Rapach (01:19:08.869)
you
Stephen Campbell (01:19:17.9)
You know, and there's a balance too because you got to be somewhat informed. You want to know who he's sending to Salvadorian prisons. So I don't know.
Kim Rapach (01:19:33.218)
But even with that, when you learn how to regulate your nervous system, you can learn how to set boundaries with technology and with news and, know, just focusing more on trust in yourself in like what feels true, but also like, how do I want to feel? You know, if I don't do my morning routine, I know how I'm going to feel. That's, that's what shifted me being able to go to the gym consistently was how am going to feel if I go? How am I going to feel if I don't?
Stephen Campbell (01:20:01.538)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:20:02.636)
And it was just, it doesn't matter how I feel right now, right now, I'm not gonna wanna go, right? I'm in Chicago and when it's winter, it's not winter now, but like it's hard in January to get up and leave the house before the sun comes up. But it's harder when you don't and then it's noon and you haven't moved. And so.
Stephen Campbell (01:20:12.748)
Yeah, darkest house.
Kim Rapach (01:20:22.094)
Paying attention to your body, taking care of yourself is huge. I'm so grateful you've spent this much time with me. Thank you very much and thank you for sharing your story. I'm so glad that you are here to tell it and that you're using your experiences to make a difference.
Stephen Campbell (01:20:37.366)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate all the kind words, appreciate the time. And yeah, I guess on, look at that, the light turned off right when I said it. Maybe, I don't know if this is weird, having heard all of the things, if in theory you were still a therapist, you still possess all of most of the toolkits.
Is there are there any parting words you would say to me as a? Therapist that just got all that shit dumped on them
Kim Rapach (01:21:18.422)
well, I don't think it's shit. So it doesn't feel that way to me. I feel honored to, you know, hear your story and to get to sit in it. You know, the one thing I always say to everybody and not that, you know, I don't want it to be unique, but I really believe it's, it's important to learn how your story is still living in your body. And to really learn how to regulate your nervous system by
Stephen Campbell (01:21:21.666)
Okay.
Kim Rapach (01:21:48.152)
having compassion for previous versions of yourself that endured so much and to give your, know, simultaneously give yourself permission to take care of yourself today and to, you know, the only way through is with self-compassion, like radical self-compassion. I've tried all the other ways, by the way. I've done the research for you.
I just know that the only way through and the only way to evolve and to really grow is through regulating your nervous system and having radical self-compassion.
Stephen Campbell (01:22:25.74)
When you, okay, so when you say radical self-
that is just a radical love for oneself and forgiveness to oneself? Or like, what is that broadly?
Kim Rapach (01:22:39.916)
Yeah. Yeah. So it's not this idea of like, okay, I'm all that and I'm better than anyone else. It's if I make a mistake, like, okay, I accept that I made a mistake, it is human to be imperfect. And if I made a mistake 20 years ago, I can see why I was behaving that way. When I look at my environment, I don't talk down about myself anymore. I don't put myself down. And you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, you know, you
what you think impacts how you feel. And so if you're going to think that you're a POS, you're gonna feel like a POS. And so only self-compassion. There's internal family systems. I'm not trained in that by the way, but it's all about, like there's no bad parts. Dick Schwartz wrote a book called No Bad Parts. And it's all about how we all have these parts that are on our behalf, but they, you we have judgmental parts and critical parts and protective parts and managing parts.
There are no bad parts within us. They're all just trying to survive. so self-compassion is staying curious. I feel this way. Well, I wonder why I feel this way. What would be a logical reason why I would feel this way? So just constant compassion with the intent of moving forward with more compassion for not only yourself, but for the world.
Kim Rapach (01:24:07.288)
that make sense?
Stephen Campbell (01:24:08.62)
Yeah, just kind of jot a note. Yeah, I think that there's...
Kim Rapach (01:24:11.52)
Yeah.
Stephen Campbell (01:24:19.064)
Part of me, I would say two out of, two to three out of seven weekdays, I am on it, I'm killing it, the most productive, getting all the things done. Two of the seven days, I'm in medium productivity and the other two to three days.
I am getting very pissed at myself because I am not at level one. And it's tough because you're trying to build a company and you kind of like need to be on almost always. And so yeah, the self-compassion part can be...
Kim Rapach (01:25:09.304)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Campbell (01:25:14.71)
a little difficult because it is also this thing it's like you don't want to come to terms with the facts like okay well do you only have two or three big days in you a week like does that mean that you have like you need to be resting two days a week so that you can really get those three days out of you and so finding the balance between that acceptance and being like no there's more like you've got more in the tank and so
How do we access that? I don't know. I struggle with that part of it because you can't be running a company and only be on three days.
Kim Rapach (01:25:46.583)
Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:25:55.096)
Sure. Yeah, no, I get that. And I get the need for productivity when you're building something and especially when you're building something big. And I would also say there's a strong pull in most of us who are driven, like you are to tie our worth to our productivity. And so I think what happens is we, we hustle and we grind.
And if we are not self aware or not self attuned or self compassionate, it's kind of like what I told you about with my practice, right? It was just go, go, go until there, you couldn't be productive enough, right? Because I guarantee once you achieve that goal within your company, you're not going to just be like, whoo. All right. I'm going to ride it out. Now. It's like, no, what do I do next? Like it's something internal tied to your worth. And you just want to, you're to want to be very careful with that.
And it might not be okay, I can rest three days a week, but it might be okay, I'm gonna rest on Tuesday and Fridays, and I don't start my day until two and I only go till six, you know, I only do half days, two days a week. And it's really I think the bottom line is listening to your body. Because your body may be communicating things that you may be more productive.
in shorter stints like you know people who have ADD or you know I use a tool called the Enneagram, Enneagram 7s like they just need a different schedule right they're more productive but in a smaller in a smaller canister you know did you ask me
Stephen Campbell (01:27:32.374)
Yeah, there's a pretty, yeah, there's a pretty extreme amount of ADD happening over on this side of the screen. But what is an Ennead room?
Kim Rapach (01:27:40.398)
So an Enneagram is an integrative tool to help you identify your personality traits and it highlights where your strengths are, not just your strengths, it identifies your desires, your core desires, as well as your core fear. And it helps you identify what your red flag behaviors are and it shows you based on where you've come from. So it kind of ties it all together. So for me, I went from being a therapist
to using a trauma-informed enneagram coaching approach while teaching people how to regulate their nervous system. And it's like a fast track. For me, my experience was, which is why I created this, but more of a fast track through therapy. It gives you the why, but it doesn't say like, okay, here's your story and here's what's wrong with you. Like, I'm not about that. It's here's where you've been. Here's how it's impacting you in ways you're not even aware of.
Stephen Campbell (01:28:24.216)
Okay.
Kim Rapach (01:28:37.612)
And here's where the freedom is. And here's where you can go and here's what's possible.
Stephen Campbell (01:28:41.984)
Okay, where can I find one? Is that an online thing or is that something I have to do? Yeah, hit me with the Enneagram. Okay, I do have to bounce.
Kim Rapach (01:28:45.976)
I can send you a link. Yeah.
Kim Rapach (01:28:54.286)
Yes, I'm going to stop recording. I'm going to say goodbye and I'll cut this part out. But thank you so much for being here.
Stephen Campbell (01:29:01.236)
Of course. Thank you for having me.
Kim Rapach (01:29:03.702)
Of course.