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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
James Browning: Hello, and
welcome to F G squared.
Steve Gladen the global pastor of small
groups from Saddleback church polls
from his over 25 years of experience.
To encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen and learn together.
Derek Olson: All right, we
are back in the mailbag.
We're calling this the greatest
small group mailbag of all time.
Q& A.
Not really, but uh.
Man, the first seven questions were
great questions people asked from the
lobby gathering 2024 earlier this year.
Uh, all kinds of different questions about
small group life, small group ministry.
Now we're going to get into
the next grouping of questions.
And so Steve, I hope you are fresh and
ready to give us your Lifetime of wisdom.
Are you ready?
Steve Gladen: As long as you're
going to help with yours too.
I'm, I'm game.
So let's go down the road.
Let's go.
Derek Olson: Okay.
Number eight.
The question is who is
doing ESL as a small group?
Steve Gladen: Uh, this is
what I love about questions.
Sometimes they are, First off,
ESL is English as a second
language, so it's actually a
very good ministry to have going.
It's a, it's a great outreach program.
I know at Saddleback, you'd think being in
Southern California, the primary audience
is Hispanic people, but believe it or
not, there's a lot of people from all over
the world that are in our ESL classes.
Uh, so it is a great outreach thing.
Um, what I love about.
This question is someone is
trying to figure out, uh, how do
I, how do I reach more out into
my community and help them out?
And so, uh, it's a great piece of is
find out people who are doing ESL.
So whoever sent this question in,
we are doing it at Saddleback.
I'm almost sure that in your community,
in your state, there are people who
are doing ESL as a great ministry.
Uh, especially if you, uh, you know,
go on your search engine and look
into, uh, how to do an ESL ministry.
Uh, there'll be all kinds of
resources that will come up.
Some of them actually have, uh, benefits
from the government helping out.
And, uh, because they're looking to help
people assimilate into the United States.
So, uh, that's a great,
great thing that you can do.
So I would a applaud you for doing it as
a, as an outreach piece, but I think too,
it could be a good question for each one
of us is how are we caring for the people
that, um, maybe new into our culture?
that don't know English and how
can we help them feel at home?
Let the government do what the
government's supposed to do.
But what believers are supposed
to do is take care of the people
that God cares the most about.
And that's people all over this planet.
So, uh, you may not be able to afford,
afford a mission strip, but there's
a lot of people in your community.
You can do a mission strip with.
And one of the things that breaks down,
uh, trying to figure out people, uh,
and help them feel comfortable with you.
is, you know, always food.
Uh, Derek brought it up in one of
the earlier questions, but, uh,
if you have them bring food from
their culture and share it with each
other, it could be a fun, fun thing.
So, um, not sure if I answered the
question, but to answer the question
I said, we are, uh, and I know others
are doing it in their community.
So Derek, I know you're up in
Oregon, uh, or yeah, Oregon, right?
Washington.
It's one of those places
Derek Olson: How dare you?
Steve Gladen: I know.
Oh, Oregon's your other
team that you love so much.
Derek Olson: I don't like even
stepping foot in the state that
is home to the Oregon ducks.
Okay.
Okay.
Steve Gladen: of duck hunting.
So I think he probably, you know, but
Derek Olson: That's like me saying,
didn't you, uh, go to college in Michigan?
Steve Gladen: Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Derek Olson: Well, I'm just glad you
had an answer to that question because
I was sitting here going, what's ESL?
Steve Gladen: They're showing ESP.
Derek Olson: Number nine.
It says, I wish I had known the importance
of having the right coaches in place.
Dot, dot, dot.
Any tips?
Steve Gladen: Okay.
Um, one Derek and I did an episode and
maybe we can put this in the show notes.
Uh, Derek, we're gonna have to write all
these things down because I'm just like
going, Oh, let's put this in the show.
Nuts.
We did a podcast called reimagining
coaching and, um, Uh, if, uh, if
we can put that in the show notes,
it'll, it'll definitely be there.
If you look on the, the, uh, channel,
it's going to be somewhere in there.
But I would encourage you to listen
to that and get to know some of the
things because I walked through the
history of what we've done in that.
But as you're looking for coaches,
one of the things that's important
is you got to look for two things.
You got to look for capability.
Do they, do they, can they be a leader
of leaders and do they want to do that?
The next thing is, do
they have availability?
One of the biggest mistakes was I found
tons of people with capability, but they
didn't have any availability in time.
And so, uh, you know,
they would feel guilty.
I would feel frustrated.
And so you have to find people
that meet both those criteria.
I found out a lot of times they were
people, um, even though I'm one of them
now, uh, but, um, in my early stages of
ministry, I leaned into a lot of people
who were retiring early or they were
empty nesters, uh, because, uh, through
life they had a lot of capability, but
the beautiful thing is they weren't
tied down by kids or young, young kids.
And so they had availability.
sometimes with all of our young
adults, they're willing to help too.
So I would look at those two things.
I think one of our biggest
learnings were is that not every
group does need equal care.
And so part of one of the things we did is
we broke our groups up into four buckets.
And if you have my book, small
groups with purpose, chapter 14, I
talk a lot about this, but we put
groups into four different buckets.
Uh, that is groups that are new.
And they get a different form of care
from our, uh, what we call community
leaders, which are the coaches
that it's in the questionnaire.
So we have new groups that get, uh,
much more, uh, focused, uh, care.
We have seasoned groups who have gone
through our new host training and that
are involved in our leader training one.
Uh, we have, uh, veteran groups
who have already gone through
our leader training too.
And so they get a
different amount of care.
And then we have our persistent groups,
or our stubborn groups, and those are
groups that You just don't understand
sometimes why they're at your church,
but they love your church and you're not
sure why they, they just don't want to
listen to you or do anything with you.
So, um, so we break because each one of
those buckets, and it doesn't matter if
you have three buckets, five buckets,
we have four buckets of delineation.
But getting to know that the main
thing is that different groups
get different type of care.
And so how you break those up
is going to be important for
your coaches to live well.
The, and that helps us greatly too,
because, uh, there's a lot of books out
there that say you go one to five ratio.
The problem is, is if I've got five
groups and I'm taking care of and
three of them are veteran groups that
really just need a phone call, one of
them is a, you know, a stubborn group
and they won't return my call back
or, you know, any type of that way.
And one of them may be a season group.
I'm in it for people.
Uh, but I just don't have many
people I'm dealing with because the
majority of my groups aren't there.
So we went to a one to 25 ratio.
You can read about that in
small groups with purpose.
But, um, the main thing is, is that,
uh, listen to the podcast on re imagine
coaching, and that'll kind of help you
get a lot of the nitty gritty details.
And, uh, Derek, can we put that in there?
Yeah, thanks man.
Derek Olson: So just click the
link in the show notes to be
redirected to that podcast.
And yeah, coaching, it's a critical key
piece that just adds that other layer.
And really the key word is care.
It's just, it's a better way to
pastor all your group leaders
and groups and them more healthy.
Steve Gladen: Yeah, Derek, I'd also
you kind of helped me think of a couple
other things with that is one is think
about how you're caring for them to,
um, you know, when I was in my first
church, I had groups, we only had five
groups, and Lisa and I were there.
the, we were the pastors and we were the
coaches and they were the group leaders.
And so, uh, but as you know, I, as
I was in different churches with
different size and scope, um, how
I cared for my coaches also helped
determine the health that was there.
So there's a lot of playbooks in there.
If you're an all access member to the
small group network, Um, you can get
access to our pathway for, uh, training
our coaches and we have a deliberate
pathway to walk them through just
different things that can help them
understand how to be more effective at
doing what, what you've called them to do.
So not only recruiting them is important,
which I spent a lot of time on and
how to care for the groups, but how to
care for them too is super important.
Derek Olson: Well said.
Okay, number 10.
This is a fun question
to hear Steve answer.
So get ready.
It says, what is the
biggest mistake you made?
Steve Gladen: Um, having
Derek as my friend, uh,
okay.
Okay.
Um, okay.
Um, I think one of the things
I would say is, um, probably
not reaching out to mentors.
I think when I was early on in
ministry, I kept thinking people
would come to me wanting to mentor me.
And I think if I could say one
thing, if you don't have those
people coming to you, go to them.
And that's one of the things I wish
I would have done was reach out
more, uh, to them and, um, and just
gravitated towards, um, you know,
trying to get the wisdom from people.
Um, I love it.
Uh, we always tell our interns when they
come on, there's not one pastor that
would say no to having a coffee with you.
Um, Uh, because we're in
it for the people business.
No one's gonna say they're too busy.
They may not be able to do it right away,
but they'll always have a coffee with you.
So reach out to people and
try to get some of their time.
Another thing I would say is, um, I
would work on one of the things I wish
I would have done or a mistake I made
was trying to figure it out myself.
Um, there's lots of great resources
on groups and from many different
churches and I would consume knowledge
and reach out stronger with that.
Um, for me, reading was hard and,
you know, as things became on
audio books and stuff like that,
that was much more easier for me.
Um, but again, I would, uh, try to reach
out, uh, and learn as much as I could.
Um, I think another thing I would wish
I would have done was take more risk.
I think younger in ministry, I
was, um, uh, one of the things
that is one of the things I'd
love to do is be a people pleaser.
Um, so, um, that's not good or bad.
You just got to realize what it
can mean if it's in a bad zone.
But I think I wish I would
have taken more risk.
Obviously you can take risk, risk.
better when you, you know, talk to the
people that you're working with to be able
to say, Hey, how do you feel if I do this?
Sometimes it can stop you from
blowing up the machine, but there
are times they don't know either.
And they'll just say, Hey, try it and
to see what happens with one or two
groups or whatever your idea is and try
to figure out what you're going to do.
So Derek, um, how would
you answer the question?
Derek Olson: You know,
I made so many mistakes.
I'm not even qualified to answer this one.
No.
Oh, man.
Yeah, I would just say,
um, looking back, I would.
I would just, again, I go back to
the care piece and the relational
piece, just setting that as top
priority over the checklist, the
next event, the next meeting, um, as
important as all those are, right?
Trying to prioritize just
those relationships and
health and building people.
Over building a ministry.
Steve Gladen: You know, as you're, as
you're talking about the relational
side too, I think one of the things
that kind of spurred into me right
there was, um, a mistake I did was
not balancing myself well enough.
Um, I'm so driven that sometimes I can
miss the people that are closest to me, i.
e.
my family or my kids.
And so probably one of the mistakes
I did was, you know, learning
those lessons the hard way.
And one of the things you don't want to
do is put your family on the altar of
small group ministry and sacrifice them
because you're doing great work for God.
So I think balancing that aspect is a
good piece that you're bringing up there.
Uh,
Derek Olson: This is a good one.
What's the one thing you would
tell yourself as someone new
to ministry regarding groups?
Yeah,
Steve Gladen: uh, with that, um,
Derek Olson: so
Steve Gladen: I, let me just take this
more from the mechanical side of being
a small group point person and not
so much the mistakes and everything.
Um, Uh, I would tell them to watch Align
and Accelerate, uh, the courses there.
Um, I think there's a, a lot of
learnings there that I wish I would
have had in small group ministry.
Uh, I think they're
fundamentals on doing that.
Um, I would tell myself to learn those
things because, uh, they weren't taught
to me, uh, they weren't taught to me in
seminary and they weren't taught to me,
um, through, you know, trying to reach
out through books and stuff like that.
So that'd be one thing
I would tell myself.
The other thing is, um,
keep focused on souls.
How many souls is God giving you
and how are you taking care of them?
Uh, Derek has been hammering this
all through the thing that's, and
it's only done by relationship.
And so, um, don't lose, don't lose sight
of what you're, why you do what you do.
The why always determines how long.
And if you understand why you're
doing it, and that is, I've, I've
been given souls in my care by God.
I'm going to be accountable for them,
which scares the stuff out of me.
Uh, but at the same time, it is something
that I want to make sure I stay focused
on and remembering why I'm in this game.
I want to be a destiny changer for each
one of those souls that are in place.
Derek Olson: good.
I would add, um, what's one thing
you would tell yourself as someone
new to ministry regarding groups?
I think back to when I was new.
I would choose growth over control.
Steve Gladen: Hmm.
Derek Olson: And I say that because
we falsely think that us controlling
is going to equal more growth,
but it actually does the reverse.
So I remember back in my first kind
of small group ministry position
being so focused on having just
the right model, just the right
campaign, just the right strategy.
And then.
Fast forward a few years later when I
am on staff at Saddleback, I learned
it was growth over control, baby.
Just let go and just promote
groups and just let people
start groups however they want.
You know, and at Saddleback, it
was like the friend strategy with a
campaign, meaning, hey, just grab two
or three friends and start a group.
You also had on campus groups.
It was like more is better.
And at Saddleback, one of the big
takeaways was we weren't penalizing
people who had really large groups
and trying to get them to multiply.
It was like, no, Hey, you're a gatherer.
That's great that you got a huge group.
How can we assist you?
And instead of focusing on splitting your
group up, how can we start more groups?
So it was just focusing on
growth, letting go of control.
And the result was
exponential small groups.
So that's my advice.
Steve Gladen: It's good.
I mean, it's a, it's a good principle
that sometimes we get hung up on.
We look at the new Testament, Paul, uh,
would literally leave pastors in place.
Uh, a lot of historians and theologians
would say is as soon as three to six
months, generally no longer than nine.
And so, um, the Holy spirit
was the control agent.
His agent was to get people out there
and people will always make mistakes.
Obviously when you read the letters
in the epistles, there were plenty of
mistakes, but, uh, he helped them on the
job with training by sending them letters.
So it's a good point.
Glad you brought it up.
Derek Olson: Okay, on the number 12, this
might be one of the most popular questions
we get in the small group ministry world.
How to get, grow more leaders.
I think they're saying, how do
I get and how do I grow more
Steve Gladen: Oh, how do I get,
and how do I grow more leaders?
Um, yeah, I mean, actually, well,
let's, let's dive into it because, uh,
we've, we've, uh, talked through this
whole, uh, whole show, you know, just
about, uh, the two friends strategy
net have never really explained it.
So let's take a little
time here to do that.
There's, there's two strategies that,
you know, we'll, we'll say either you can
have a low bar or a high bar of entry.
And, uh, one of them is the high
bar you're saying, Hey, if you're
going to be a small group leader,
we're going to recruit you.
We will train you.
And then we will will match you up
with people inside of our church.
And at Saddleback, we did that
in the early days and it, it just
didn't get what we were going for.
And part of what we learned
is that language does matter.
I mean, when I first came on staff,
um, our volunteer group leaders
were called district lay pastors.
And, uh, that just, that brought people
by the, by the ones, uh, because people
were scared to death with that title.
Uh, and then we called them, um,
uh, uh, small group leaders and
people didn't want to be a leader
and they were scared by that.
Then we called them shepherd leaders.
Don, there's a bad zone in the, in the,
in the history of Saddleback and you
know, because in Orange County, nobody
knew what a sheep sheep was and didn't
want to be a shepherd, uh, with that.
Uh, and then we, we went to the hosting
cause we were trying to figure out
what's the least common denominator.
What are people, what are
we asking people to do?
And we came up with the acrostic host,
you know, do you have a heart for people?
Can you open up a place?
It doesn't have to be your place.
It can be a coffee shop, a
park, uh, anything you want.
Um, can you serve a snack?
Um, obviously the more food,
the more, you know, glue is
going to happen in the group.
And can you turn on, at that
time, can you turn on a VCR?
Then it was can you turn on a DVD player?
And now it was, you know, can you,
can you, um, uh, type of URL so that
you can stream our video services.
Eso It was, um, you know, just the
part of being able to turn on a video.
And so what we were trying to do
is we were, we were bringing the
master teacher to the group through
video so that the small group
leader didn't have to be the Bible.
No, at all.
The, the thing that it kind of
morphed into is what Derek was talking
about was, do you have two friends?
Because when you look at,
uh, leadership, leadership.
What's the number one
qualifier for a leader?
And if you do this question in a circle,
and just start off by saying to a
group of people, what's the number one
qualifier to be a leader of a small group?
They'll say, uh, teachability.
They'll say, um, you know, compassion.
They'll say, you know, having a heart
for people, uh, they'll say a follower
of Christ and different things like that.
But one of the things we've learned that
the, what is the most critical component
for people to have in leadership is,
uh, they got to have followers and the
modern term for followers is friends.
And thus he came up with the two
friends because we found out that
people that could influence friends.
Had the gift of leadership.
Now, sometimes that was good and
sometimes that was bad because what
you got to do is that there's a
process in leadership development.
We always say, you know, the
Bible's built on a family system.
You don't front load all
the education for your kids.
You know, Derek doesn't set Azariah
down when she was five and say,
here's what you're going to experience
over the next 15 years of your life
because she'd be scared to death.
I didn't do that with my kids either.
It was gradual.
It was on the job.
And you always look for
opportunities that were teachable.
And in the same way we saw Jesus do
this with his disciples in Matthew
four, his only qualification for
being a disciple was follow me.
Three years later, it was die for me.
But we see that he had an incremental
system of caring for them in a small
group and being able to help them all
be willing to go from, Hey, just follow
me to being willing to die for them.
And every disciple,
except John, died for him.
And it was a brutal death
too, on every one of 'em.
So how do you get that happening?
Well, part of it is,
is we're trying to say.
We get more from taking the people who
want to do what you want to do with
relevant curriculum and get grabbing
their friends to being able to say we
had, we can mold them quicker because
they already have the gift of leadership
into being who we want them to be.
So in essence, when they sign up to
lead a group with their friends, with
relevant curriculum, then what happens
is, is they're basically saying,
we'll Now our job is to move them.
Hopefully not to die for us, but we
want to move them to being a better
follower of Christ if they need it.
So when you do this process, one of the
things you got to understand is that, you
know, they don't become a public group
until they become a member of the church.
And by membership, it's, you know, have
you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?
Um, do you, um, have you been baptized?
Did you take our membership class,
which is class 101, which today
with Andy it's activate one.
And did you sign the covenant?
Because when they, when they
commit to us, when they commit to
Jesus, then they can be a group
that's accessed on the internet.
But in that process, what I don't want
you to shy away from is you have more
groups in your church than you realize
if you will let them start groups.
be based on their friendships.
Now, let's play it out to
the worst case scenario.
Someone who isn't a follower of Christ,
who is coming to your church says, okay,
you were doing something on family.
And, uh, you know, we're going to do
the curriculum, how to raise your kids
without raising your blood pressure.
So if they want to do that and
they want to come out to your, at
the, at the end of your service
and say, I want to lead a group.
A lot of us would miss an opportunity
to empower them to grab their friends
and go through the video curriculum.
Now, I have a lot of people who will
say, um, if they're not a follower of
Christ, how could you let them do that?
And I always ask a pastor this question.
I always go, if you have three guys that
come to your church, sit on the back row
who are not followers of Is that okay?
And every pastor says,
well, of course I'd be okay.
And let's say they listen to
your message all the way through.
Is that okay?
And they would say, Oh my goodness.
Of course it's okay.
That's why the church is here.
It's for evangelism.
And then I go, let's say that
they went out after lunch and
they talked about your message.
Would that be okay?
And they go, yeah, we would love that.
Then I go, what's the difference
between empowering them to
use your video curriculum?
whether it's a sermon message
for the weekend or whether it's
something that's more relevant.
What's the harm in doing that
because it's the exact same thing.
And let me tell you how this all
came about because it's a fun story.
Uh, this will probably, you know,
get us to the conclusion of this
episode pretty quick, but it's a
good story worth remembering because
Uh, we, we did this in oh two 2002.
We launched groups based on the host
strategy and it was empowering them to
grab their friends and take the, the
curriculum, what on earth am I here
for, to do in their, with their friends.
And, uh, about four weeks in, Rick wanted
to teach, uh, show the congregation
that, uh, baptism wasn't a scary thing.
And so he wanted to, our
baptism was outside 'cause
we're in Southern California.
The weather's great.
And so what could, what happened was,
is that Rick wanted me to get a couple
people for each, each, um, service
that we had and he would throw it out
to the baptismal and I would baptize
them and I'd throw it back to Rick just
so people could see it at Saddleback.
One of the things we do is we always
asking, you know, um, how long you've been
at Saddleback and what's your name and
how long you've been at Saddleback so they
can kind of get to, to know the story.
They can talk a little bit
and then, you know, why now?
Or basically, you know, why
are you accepting Christ?
Uh, why, why, why do
you want to be baptized?
And they kind of share that.
And so it was interesting is that in
this one service, we had two people
and, um, uh, I baptized the first
guy and because of service length,
uh, we could only do one at the time.
So I threw it back to Rick, but this
other guy was here and with, with a
group of people and I said, come on down
and, um, you know, let me baptize you.
Don't worry about the serving going on.
You're already dressed and
you want to be baptized.
So he came into the water and he had
a group of people there with him.
Um, he said, um, um, you know,
I just asked him his name.
He told me his name.
And, um, so I go, you know, how
long have you been at Saddleback?
And he goes, four weeks.
And I went, oh man, this guy would have
been better than the other guy that
I just did, but that's, that's okay.
And I said, when did you
become a follower of Christ?
And he goes, two weeks ago.
And I go, Oh man, that's amazing.
And it was just so cool.
And I'm like going, Oh, I wish this guy
would have been on the film because it
had been much, a much more moving story.
And I said, you know, who's here with you?
And he goes, well, my parents are
here and my small group is here
and everybody cheered for him.
And I go.
Ah, man, this would have been the guy.
I wish he, I almost wanted to say, Hey,
would you come back tomorrow morning?
And, uh, uh, we'll, we'll baptize
you again at the, uh, nine o'clock
service, but didn't do that way.
I just, you know, went
with what God was doing.
And when he was in the water, I said,
Hey, you know, one of the things we
love to do at Saddleback is we love to
bring your group leader into the water
because this is a very spiritual moment.
So I looked at him, I said,
who's your group leader up here?
And, uh, we'll bring them into the water.
And he looked at me as deadpan as ever.
And he said, I'm the leader.
And I said, and I was so stunned.
I just said, okay, one more time.
How long have you been at Saddleback?
And he goes, four weeks.
Okay.
I go, okay.
And I go, when did you accept Christ?
He goes, two weeks ago.
I go, was it in the
service or what was it?
And he goes, he goes, no, no, no, no, no.
It was good.
He's in my small group.
And I go, really?
I go, what was that?
He goes, well, remember in week two
Rick said, if you need to accept
Christ, when I do the prayer, I want
you to accept Christ in your heart.
And then you need to do
two things after I pray.
And, and I'm not remembering this.
So I'm like on, what did Rick say to do?
And he said, he goes, well, tell
the people in your small group
that you just accepted Christ.
And he goes, that's what I did.
And everybody cheered for him again.
And I'm like, oh, that's great.
And I go, what was the second thing?
And he goes, Rick said, come get baptized.
And he goes, so here I am.
And I can remember just looking at that
going, you know, wow, here you are.
And we had to figure out in our
management team, was that okay?
And we determined that, you know,
in every one of our curriculum, we
wanted to make sure that there was
always a call to Christ because you
never know what God's spirit is doing.
And so one of the things I'd encourage in
this question of, you know, how do I get.
And grow more leaders.
Well, the great thing is getting them
is empower the people to reach out
to their friends, because that's how
you grow the scope of your ministry.
Because most church people
spend so much time in church.
They don't know non believers.
They don't have friends
outside of the church.
And so you want to empower that
friendship outside of the church.
But then the answer to grow is how this
strategy can work because our community
leaders, there was one of the questions,
I don't know how the podcast is getting
broke up, but there's one of the questions
that talked about coaching and that.
But one of the first things our coaches
or for us, our community leaders ask
new group leaders that are in our first
bucket of priority care is they've got
to figure out, do they need Christ or do
they need training or do they need both?
And so part of it is, is that if somebody
is coming to your church that is not
a believer and starts a group, there's
two things that we don't believe.
We don't believe they're a
sleeper cell that's al Qaeda
trying to destroy your church.
And we believe that there is something
attractional in our church that they love.
And so instead of scorning them
saying they can't do anything
and they can't reach out to their
friends, I want to empower them
to do that with a master teacher.
It's like having people visit your
church and listen to the pastor
and going out and talking about it.
The story I used before, but when I
ask a senior pastor, so I would just
encourage you, if you're going to use
this strategy, make sure you have a
pathway to And, uh, having a structure
again in our aligned course, we talk
a lot about, uh, the structure of what
you need to have in your small group
ministry so that when new groups come on
board, what is the process you're taking
them through, through leader training?
Curriculum pathway.
What kind of tools are you helping
them to figure out what people are
engaging with them so that we can help
them be better followers of Christ?
Uh, Derek has a long answer.
You may have to fill in some of the gaps
that I missed, but, um, there we go.
Derek Olson: Well, it was a long
answer, but it was a powerful story.
And it really hit the point home
that, I mean, really the big, the
big point is, look what God can do.
Um, look what he can do.
Even with somebody who was unsaved,
who took a curriculum home and got
together with a few friends and started
watching the small group curriculum,
the, the, the leader got saved and,
um, now he's at church getting baptized
and the small group, I imagine a bunch
of them got saved out of that too.
Steve Gladen: Yeah, it's not how you, how
you write the playbook, but when you look
at the disciples in the early days, there
is always the questions that theologians
ask is when did they become followers
of Jesus and when did they become saved?
So it's an interesting angle and all
that, but the thing is, I just say,
don't squelch the leaders that are
sitting in your church because I've had
plenty of people come up to me and said,
I want to be a leader of the church.
And they go through all the training,
they fill out all the forms and they
do everything you've asked them to do.
But then their follow up question,
after all that is said and
done, they go send people to me.
And what happens is, is you become
a governmental system for making
sure that that leader has people.
And the bottom line is when people
come up to us and say, I want to lead
a group, we just say, grab two friends.
If they don't have two
friends that they can grab.
Then we say, Hey, why don't you join
one of our existing groups and then see
if God will lead some friends to you?
Because every time we have a churchwide
campaign, we're always opening up all
of our groups to say, Hey, are the new
friends that God's brought to you that
you can step out and lead a group?
Derek Olson: so good.
Well, I hope everybody listening or
watching is enjoying us go through
this small group mailbag of questions.
Thank you for listening.
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