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A growing community of educators, mentors, and lifelong learners who believe in the power of connection, shared stories, and showing up for one another - again and again
Cate Tolnai: Welcome
Ann Kozma to the bridge.
I'm so happy to have you.
Thanks for, thanks for hanging out.
Ann Kozma: Oh my gosh, friend,
I'm so excited to be here.
I think this is like
the inaugural episode.
I cannot wait to see what
you do with the bridge.
And I love this whole idea of reconnecting
to your purpose and, and I think
reclaiming some parts of joy in all
of all of the education things too.
Cate Tolnai: Yeah.
So I want, I agree and I would love for
you to tell our audience a little bit
about you and, you know, the elevator
pitch version of your education journey.
and just the, just yeah.
I'll stop there.
Go.
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Okay.
I'll right in.
I'm so of you for having me.
I describe myself as a teacher helping
teachers, so I spent almost 20 years in
public education in Southern California.
I started as a third grade teacher,
but the majority of my time was
spent in my first grade classroom.
Teaching young scholars and I absolutely
loved being a primary educator.
Students came in like kindergartners and
left for second grade readiness, and it
was such a significant year of growth.
So I'm a primary educator to my core.
And then, you know, after many
years I felt called to leave the
classroom and I knew I could help more
students by helping more teachers.
I became what's called a teacher on
special assignment we call eMASS in
California, and I was working for
the innovation and instructional.
Support department, our IT department
that was really kind of cutting edge in
terms of supporting, I went one-to-one
in 2010 with my first grade students.
Cate Tolnai: wow.
Ann Kozma: touch first generation,
no camera, with these teeny tiny
microphones that we would plug in and
talk about our authentic reading lives
and create brain power book reviews.
From my classroom and then into this TOSA
role supporting all schools in my district
that was 20 K eight, across the board.
And you know, that was an incredible
opportunity to come alongside fellow
educators, help them see new possibilities
and potential for how technology
could transform teaching and learning.
In the midst of all that, I was
very involved in our organization in
California, known as q and speaking
and presenting and you know, leading
learning sessions and sharing just
ideas that were transformative not only
in my classroom but on my campus and
across my district, and fell in love
with a few products that are still
and became my evergreen tools and.
I just, the, the journey
transformed outward.
And in 2018 I found myself leaving my
school district and accepting a position
at Microsoft where I was working on the
Flipgrid team and had the honor of working
for six years as an educator innovation
lead on the Flipgrid team, supporting
educators around the world who, who were
using this tool to amplify, empower,
and, and provide pathways for students.
To share their voice,
their authentic voice.
And you know, the, the product
was Sunset last year and I was so
thrilled to find myself at a new home.
And one of those tools that I had
fallen in love with a long time ago in
its earliest iteration, it was Adobe
Spark, an Adobe Spark video back then.
But I am working on the
Adobe for Education team.
As an education evangelist, and
that's the full circle moment back
to a teacher helping teachers.
And I, I'm a, I'm a person helping
people, whether you're in education,
in the classroom, out of the
classroom in various journeys.
I think we're all lifelong learners.
So,
Cate Tolnai: Yeah.
Ann Kozma: I mean,
that's me in a nutshell.
And I guess it's more than a nutshell,
but it's been an incredible journey
since I started in like 2001.
Cate Tolnai: That is wild.
And, and, okay.
So a few things that you shared I
think, really resonate with something
I'm, I am to solve right now.
And I, I'm not, I'm not saying
I'm gonna change the world or
solve all the problems, but you
can connect with me on this.
Like, I've been listening to teachers
over the last couple of years from,
you know, ever since we came back
after the pandemic and, And that was
obviously like rocked all our Worlds,
but what I have seen is that there's
just so much instability within the K 12
system and what's happening is I think
it's shaking the confidence and maybe.
The hearts of some of our educators
who are kind of like, wait,
is this what I signed up for?
Is this, is this within
my control anymore?
Like, is this still the
journey I wanna be on?
Or maybe, you know, they, they're close
with someone named Ann Kozma and Ann Kozma
becomes a toa and the next thing you know,
like maybe they lost their lunch bestie.
Or maybe, you know, not to get
all down and down and Dre me.
Not to get all down and sad about
it, I just, I'm noticing that
community is missing and part
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: bridge is trying to
do is connect educators across
distance and devices to each other.
And some of the work you've done has
really like spot on targeted this problem.
And I guess what I'm
really curious about is.
You know, how do you create spaces,
whether you're in a cla on a school site,
or you're, you're attacking education
from like the vendor world, right?
How do you, how do you intentionally
create those spaces where
people feel like they belong?
Ann Kozma: Yeah, this is a great
question, and I think you're right.
Like all of our worlds were changed half
a decade ago, half a decade already, and.
There are still ways that folks are
dealing with that or processing it
or coming through it, or, or the
long, you know, the long term kind of
shifts and pivots that we all made.
But for me, there are life
lessons in this too, like to me.
I literally try and live a better together
mindset, and I realize that I am somebody
who needs community and I need people,
and I go back to my first grade classroom
wanting to create a space where my
students felt safe to come as they are.
Could be, you know, whatever
kind of emotion was displayed.
If it was happy, silly,
frustrated, a anything.
I wanted them to feel safe
to be authentically them.
But I think that's also what humans
want, is they want a space where they
can show up as their genuine self
and feel like, Hey, I have a place
I'm seen, I'm valued, and I wanted
to create that in my classroom.
And when I left the
classroom and became a tosa.
I was not coming in as an administrator.
I was coming in as a peer
walking alongside folks.
And I, I remember saying in some of
those earliest like district-wide PDs
that I was doing is, I want you to
feel like you're in your living room.
I want you to feel comfortable
in this learning space.
I want you to feel like you're sitting
with a friend digging into something
new and feeling safe to take risks.
And so.
In 2018, when I left my district,
I became a fully remote.
Employee.
And so I've had the experience of
what it feels like to sit on the
other side of a virtual call or to
not be in a physical space where
the meeting or the conversation or
the people are having that dialogue.
And I feel like that created in me a
whole new sense of empathy, a whole new
sense of awareness of how to, how to just
use even skills or things that are make.
You know, inherently me, but making them.
Like tools that I can
use on a virtual call.
Kate, I even lean into a video
call, like I'll lean in, you could
see my face is, so I'll lean in.
And so what I would do in my authentic IRL
space, I also try and do on a video call.
So those little types of things
I think can be transformational.
But I think it's all rooted in
the fact that like, I want people.
To feel like they're a valuable
member of that community.
And community means different things
in different capacities, on different
days and in different places, but
it's rooted in I see you, I value you.
You are bringing something
inherently and uniquely and
authentically you to this experience.
And I wanna value that because
that's what every person deserves.
Plain and simple.
Everybody deserves it, so why
not live it in your actions?
Cate Tolnai: Totally agree.
And I love that, like, leaning in,
like I, that's kind of why I'm standing
up when we're talking because I'm
like, I wanna, I wanna do my hands.
okay.
I would love to know this,
this is, what did your first
work from home space look like?
Because I, I wanna say what mine
does, mine looked like, because like
you, like I went from being in the
county office in Santa Clara to not.
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: what did your first
home office home office look
Ann Kozma: Oh wow.
Okay.
Well, I mean, the kitchen table,
to be honest and being fully
transparent, I am sitting at my
kitchen table right now, like I have
the standup desk right over there.
you know this, I just moved into a
new space, so like I'm still finding
the vibe of my new, my new space.
But that original space was literally
a laptop at my kitchen table, and then
I set up a home office and I had this.
I had an eight foot long project
table made, and I had like my EdTech
books and I had, you know, the, the
things, I don't know, the tchotchke
kind of like things that were,
Cate Tolnai: Like just
Ann Kozma: yeah.
Cate Tolnai: and
Ann Kozma: Yep.
That fueled me, inspired me.
EdTech stickers from conferences
or friends across my PLN, you know,
things that were left over from my
classroom or my school district.
Pictures on the wall that inspired
me, whether it was like nature and
connecting with that element of my life.
I had a lot of prints from my friend,
rabbi Michael Cohen, the ed tech
ra, like the tech rabbi, right?
he had created all of these prints.
I had those framed in my space.
you know, I guess it was
a mishmash of everything.
And I have found that I can work
anywhere, whether it's in the backseat
of a car, on a bus tour, you know,
traveling from place to place.
I don't work well on airplanes.
I just don't, I, I sleep like, I
can't, but I don't have, like, I
don't have the designed out space.
I don't have the portable ring light.
I have, you know.
All the stuff's over there,
but I'm not over there.
I'm at my kitchen table with my laptop.
Cate Tolnai: totally.
My first work from home
space was, kind of a work, an
unfinished workbench in a garage.
That
Ann Kozma: Yeah,
Cate Tolnai: that's where I took the leap.
And that had like a total that, I
mean just the, we all know you and
I know the impact of space and like
how, how that which surrounds you can
actually really impact your insides.
and so that's why even though I'm in
like, you can't tell, but I'm in like.
A seven foot by seven
foot nook in my room.
But, but I'm doing my best to like
bring out my little spaces too.
And, and like when we're transitioning
and you and I transitioned from
being in the classroom where we had
a huge amount of space and all the
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: that took years for me
to let go of some of, some of the
decorations or some of the books.
And I still have some of the stuff and
my husband's like, it's about that time.
And I'm like, no, no.
It just, I just, it's my
emotional support book.
Like don't
Ann Kozma: Yep.
Yep, yep.
Cate Tolnai: Oh
Ann Kozma: I fully understand that.
Cate Tolnai: yeah.
So,
okay, we're gonna pause here.
I am not seeing audio come in from you.
Ann Kozma: Okay.
Cate Tolnai: I
Ann Kozma: One.
Cate Tolnai: but I don't
Do you on your end?
See, the
Ann Kozma: I see the little
white bar going up and down.
Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: I didn't see it on
my end, and so I was panicking,
Ann Kozma: Okay.
Cate Tolnai: weren't catching this.
Okay.
Okay.
so let's pivot a little bit here.
And
we talked, I, I mentioned to you
kind of the, the problem that I'm
thinking about or the people really,
the people that I'm thinking about.
My, my heart beats for educators as it
is yours, which is why we've, you know.
Connected over the years and I have a
fun, like very core memory associated
to you when we were at a professional
learning event, and you and I were
both kind of in this transition away
from K 12 and into, you know, the
other side of it, the vendor side.
I was starting at Q you were starting
at Flipgrid and Microsoft and I
think both of us were, we were
on that journey at relatively the
same time and were sitting outside.
instead of being at a session, so we
snuck out, we're reading popsicles.
We were in Sacramento sitting on a
wooden like walkway, like hiding because
we weren't, we weren't in a session,
but we were having our own session.
there was just this, this kindred
moment of me, like, I really
saw you for the first time as.
And who just loves to love and
who just wants to like, make sure
that teachers feel taken care of.
And that has sat with me, that
has resonated with me and kind of
driven me in so much of my work.
I've never told you that,
how much that means to me.
just having that moment then
it turned into this whole
project that was the Q booms.
And not to go into this like big old
shebang about the, the booms, but.
and we'll, we'll make sure to
put a link to the, in the show
notes to, to some of those booms.
'cause those were great.
But essence, like it was an opportunity
for anybody who felt like they had a
story to tell, or a mic to drop, to
get up the courage to stand up and
do it, and be surrounded by people
who just wanted to love on them.
And so now, what, does that
drive inside of you look like
Ann Kozma: Yeah,
Cate Tolnai: you're doing work?
At Adobe, or even as you're just
living life as in Kozma, the
Ann Kozma: so I, yeah,
like community is at heart.
Everything I do and I.
Knowing we were gonna talk
loosely about like community,
and community just as a concept.
I have always been in the business of
people and like in high school, I was in
a SB and I was like the president of the
Girls Athletic Association and I was the
publicity commissioner and historian.
So I, in my head I'm like,
oh my God, what was I doing?
I was promoting events.
I was talking about all the awesome
things people could get involved in.
I was capturing the story of it
and, and celebrating the story of
it in college, I was an ra, so it
was caring for people and yeah.
Cate Tolnai: similar.
My friend,
Ann Kozma: Oh my,
Cate Tolnai: was the historian
in high school, like,
Ann Kozma: how do we, we've
never talked about that before.
Oh my God.
Well, yeah, so an ra, and then like I was
a small group leader my senior year, and
then moving into my, my classroom like.
You are, you're leading
a community of people.
And so these roles in my own growing up
years, I think it's just something, and
I said it earlier, like inherently in
me as a people person, but I want to,
I want to be that champion for people.
I want to amplify them.
I was inspired by that Rita Pearson
Ted Talk forever in a lifetime ago,
where she's like, kids need a champion.
That was very formative in my mind about
how to, how to support my students, but.
As I started working and supporting
educators, I knew I could be a
champion for my fellow educators.
And let's be real Kate, being
a teacher, it is not easy.
It is not an easy job.
There are so many demands.
There are so many things that
are needing your attention that
are simultaneous, overlapping.
And then of course, the demands
that are outside influences that
impact so many things, but like.
In my classroom and in my
community work as a TOSA and at
at Flipgrid and, and at Adobe.
Like I want to celebrate the journey and
I want that to be kind of thought of as,
ongoing because we are lifelong learners.
in my classroom we celebrated Epic wins.
Those were those light bulb
moments, those aha moments.
I would do victory laps and run around
my classroom and high five students.
Cate Tolnai: I
Ann Kozma: I would do victory
laps and PD at my district.
We'd dance and celebrate and
I'm silly and, and, and I think
lively and animated when I'm.
Presenting.
but I just feel so strongly about
creating spaces where people feel like
they belong, but celebrating the journey
of it and the journey's not always
sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows.
It's not.
And I'm a big advocate for your
feelings matter, your voice matters.
The authenticity of an experience matters.
It's just the way I approach everything
so naturally it bleeds over into
my work in community 'cause it's,
Cate Tolnai: Yeah.
Ann Kozma: it's literally the care for
each other and it looks different every
day based on what we're talking about
or what we're training about or what
experience we're sharing at an event.
Like,
Cate Tolnai: Yeah.
Ann Kozma: yeah, I feel like
I don't have a recipe for it.
It's just like, it's hard to
explain sometimes because put me
in a room with people and we'll
walk away friends, you know, like.
Cate Tolnai: so authentic.
Like I've been in those rooms with
you, and like, you'll also see someone
from across the room and like, I
have no idea who this person is,
even though our circles are mixed.
But, but the, the authentic,
like, love of like, I see you.
I just feel, I like, you know,
like, people say this all the
time, you know, so many people.
But I'm like, but it's more than that.
Like, you feel, you feel so many people,
which is like such a gift and, and you
Ann Kozma: And that's for sure.
And then some people always like,
oh, what Enneagram are you or what?
I don't know.
I dunno.
I think somebody who knows this drop
it in a chat or respond somehow.
Like I think I'm a three or maybe a seven.
I don't even know what I just said, but
like people who are into those things
very clearly pegged me as, oh, you're
a this and I don't remember which
number, but I'm a people person and.
People are my passion and I am in
the business of helping people.
Plain and simple.
Cate Tolnai: So, so can we flip the coin?
Can we
Ann Kozma: Sure.
Cate Tolnai: and can I ask like,
what, what happens when it's not a
good, when it's not a love connection?
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: like
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: your strategies for working
through the moments that don't feel.
Good.
or challenging, you know?
Ann Kozma: Yeah, I'm glad I actually
have an answer for this because.
Within the first week of becoming a
TOSA in my school district, I found
myself invited to a dinner with Dr.
Ruben Puentedura, who was the
creator of the Standard Model.
And yes.
Right.
So like everybody, you
know, at that time we were.
This is 2014.
Everybody's talking SAMR in my school
district and how do we use our devices to
go from substitution to redefinition and
what does that transformation look like?
And I kid you not, this is within the
first week to two weeks of being a tosa.
So I was already working with
administrators and one of the
administrators, I very clearly was like,
I need you to work with this person.
We need to get, we need
to support this person.
And I remember saying, Dr.
Puentedura.
What do I do about the teachers who
X, Y, Z, and you can put in X, Y,
Z with things like, don't wanna try
something new, are not willing to use
the technology they've been given or
anything that could fill in the blank.
And he had this profound answer that
I took with me and I'm so glad it was
at the beginning of my TOSA journey.
He said, well.
As long as they are not trying
to purposefully sabotage you,
accommodate and support, but
don't waste your time or money.
And I was like, oh my
gosh, that is so deep.
And I had to chew on that for a while.
'cause don't waste your time or money.
I'm, I'm not gonna not help people.
Cate Tolnai: Right.
I mean, that sounds like kind of punchy.
Ann Kozma: It sounds kind of
punchy, but here's the truth of it.
Some people might not change,
and that's okay because
everybody is allowed to be them.
And some people, I don't
know their journey.
I don't know their lived experience.
And here's when it, when it said time
or money, I thought, okay, I can go in,
I can support, but maybe I don't spend
hour upon hour, upon hour, upon hour.
Maybe I should have been saying
that plural, hours upon hours.
And then the money thing.
Fortunately I wasn't in
control of the budgets.
I didn't have that kind of oversight.
But other people who did.
I could have then countered with, okay,
maybe this isn't the best use of our
time, or maybe we should invest in
this way, or what if we tried this?
And I was able to have the
perspective that was grounding
me in my approach, but also know.
Where can I move the me?
Where can I move that needle?
And if you think about that bell curve
Cate Tolnai: Yeah.
Ann Kozma: the diffusion of innovation
theory and that middle point over to get
people from that late adopter second, you
know that second majority in that wave
over to the innovator and the vanguard
and the people who are doing those things.
Kate, that was so deeply profound for me
when I first stepped out of the classroom.
And fun fact, I still don't
have budgetary insight.
I don't wanna have budgetary, I don't,
I'm not the one making those decisions.
But I get to use my thought
leadership, my expertise, and my
years and years and years of like
experience in this community.
To shape the approach
that I take with people.
And if somebody's excited, guess what?
They're going to try something.
If somebody's afraid, guess what?
I can encourage them and walk beside them.
And if somebody just
isn't into it, guess what?
That's okay.
Maybe they'll find a different
strategy that is, or something
that gets them excited,
Cate Tolnai: Yep.
Ann Kozma: and then I'm gonna cheer
for them when they find that pathway,
because we all take different
pathways to get to our end points.
So that was a kind of punchy answer.
Wow.
But I learned it and I learned it.
Cate Tolnai: What it really speaks to,
and this is something that we've talked
about in our newsletters too, is this
idea of creating some healthy boundaries
around what we give and what we invest.
And I don't say invest in
the form of like cash money.
I'm saying
Ann Kozma: Sure.
Cate Tolnai: in our resources, like
our time, our energy, our heart,
our care, our, our brain space.
Like, and, and It's
not meant to be punchy.
I don't take what you
said like that at all.
I, I think it's, I think it's
a healthy way to frame like
the, your humanity and that
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: finite amount of.
You that can go around and how many
educators burn out because they
don't have those healthy boundaries.
Or they're afraid to say, no, I'm
not gonna check my email at night.
What if my kids need me?
What if the parents need me?
a lot of, a lot of, I know when I
was just beginning in my career, I
was way more available than probably
was healthy, and I'm so grateful.
I have the insight now that I can say to.
The teachers that I work with now,
I'm teaching to get their credential
and I can, I can have them, I can
give them some space to think about,
like, you know, what is a boundary,
what is a healthy boundary for you?
And like, how can you draw that and, and
un guilt it, like take the guilt away.
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: so I
appreciate it was honest.
I appreciate that.
I have one more question for you and might
be tethered to what you just shared, which
is if you could give one piece of advice
a teacher who is maybe a couple years in
to their career getting their footing.
Maybe they've tripped a couple times.
Maybe they change grade levels.
Maybe they're not sure
if this is for them.
Maybe they're in love.
Just somebody, somebody
that's like a couple years in.
If you could go back and.
advice to you at that time, or
think about someone you know that's
at that time in their career,
what advice would you give them?
Ann Kozma: Yeah, this is such a great
question and I, I feel like the advice
that I would give on any given day
probably would be different from one
day to the next, but I think the core
message will always be rooted in like.
Finding your people, and that might not
be the person in the next classroom over.
It might be person, you know,
a a, a person across campus.
It might be a person down the
street in a different district.
It might be a friend across
the social media platform.
But the idea of.
Getting to learn with and from each other
is something I will always advocate for
and for folks who are a few years in or
new, I, I guess, I mean, I guess what I'm
really trying to articulate is the idea
of embracing the better together mindset.
Because what are you doing?
You are learning with and from
people, but what are you doing?
You're broadening.
Your heart and your mind, you're
embracing new perspectives.
You are, learning from
others' experiences.
You're seeing something that's
different from your own experience.
And that's, you know, helping
with empathy and awareness.
and I just really think the ideas,
the passion, the heart of people
that you surround yourself with.
It is such a great learning opportunity
and you don't, as an early educator,
have to have all of the answers.
It is okay to ask for help.
It is okay to ask questions.
It is okay to not have it all figured
out because I didn't, I didn't, my
first year, I didn't, my second year, I
didn't my eighth, ninth, or 10th year.
But what you're modeling
is lifelong learning.
And that's what we want our students to
be a part of that same kind of journey.
Right.
So I guess that's, I mean, that's
today's, that's today's encouragement.
That's today's message.
Cate Tolnai: Yeah, and, and I love that.
I love, it's, it's that
idea of like kind of.
Creatively look for it, right?
Like maybe it's not as convenient as
the teacher next door to you, right?
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: that doesn't
mean it's impossible.
Kind of like persevere and don't
give up and, and reach out to us.
You know, like talk
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: that are connected
and wanna connect others, right?
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai: I thank you and I thank your
heart for everything you put into your
work, but also just you and it, it can
be emptying, to be a giver like you are.
And so may your heart be filled today
Ann Kozma: you.
Cate Tolnai: and
Ann Kozma: you.
Cate Tolnai: for being a
guest and sharing with us.
Ann Kozma: I am honored to help you as
you launch the bridge into the world.
I cannot wait for future episodes.
I know the conversations you're
gonna have with folks are going to
inspire and encourage so many, so.
Kate, thank you.
It's, it's a joy to know you.
It's a joy to see you in your creative
spaces and your professional spaces.
But thanks for kicking
off the conversations.
'cause I think sometimes folks,
you know, even as a connected
educator, it's easy to feel siloed.
It really truly is.
And unless you're out at events or
connecting across socials or have
the luxury of seeing the people
every day, I just think there's
nothing but opportunity to learn.
From each other and the
experiences that are shared.
but thanks for being a vanguard in
the space and caring so deeply about
the conversations, but also empowering
people with the support, the ideas,
and the encouragement to go forward.
So thank you.
Cate Tolnai: All the love.
All the love.
Hey Ann, if people want to
find you, where should they
Ann Kozma: Yeah.
Yeah.
So, of course I, you know, am
connected across all the socials.
You can find me at Ann
Kozma, 7 2 3 Instagram.
I'm still hanging around on X
'cause my community is still there.
LinkedIn.
I'm on the Adobe Creative
Educator Facebook group.
definitely that Adobe Edu creative
hashtag is a great place to find
me across socials, but, and Kozma
7, 2 3 on all the platforms.
Cate Tolnai: It.
All right, my friend.
We'll talk to you
Ann Kozma: All right,
Cate Tolnai: Thanks.
Ann Kozma: you.