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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:01.546)
Well, well, well, Tony, Tony, Tony, as I call you, Tony Calabrese, Pastor Tony Calabrese. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being on the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. Finally.
Tony Calabrese (00:13.91)
Finally, it's been in the making and I'm honored. my goodness, honored to be here. Anytime I get a chance to spend any time with the Shannon Scott, it's always, always a treat. I have a small ab workout after the fact because I laugh a lot when I'm with you. So yeah, get my ab workout in today.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:16.78)
Yes, yes, I'm so pumped that you're here.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:26.638)
You
Everything Made Beautiful (00:36.78)
Yeah, well I remember the first time that we met, I think you remember this, which was when you interviewed when you were coming on staff as the lead pastor at our Spring Hill campus at Church of the City. And they just said to me, hey, we'd love for you to talk to this guy. And I was like, great. And so I had the, I think, benefit of literally knowing nothing about you. So being able to...
Tony Calabrese (00:42.197)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:02.798)
hear your story organically and just get to know you without really any preconceived anything. And the thing I walked away from that conversation, which I thought was delightful, by the way, with was this guy is the real deal. And then over the years that we worked together at Church of the City, that just kept being proven over and over and over is that you're the real deal. And by that, I mean,
Tony Calabrese (01:09.194)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (01:14.517)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (01:26.422)
Mmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:30.614)
you are really a pastor, really a shepherd. You have a true shepherd's heart. And as the daughter of a pastor who's now with Jesus, but I watched him truly shepherd people over his life, that is what I'm reminded of when I watch the way that you love and care for people and lead them and all of that. I just, my first impression was great and then it got proven over and over and over again as we worked together.
Tony Calabrese (01:42.486)
Mmm.
Tony Calabrese (01:51.06)
Hmm
Wow.
Tony Calabrese (01:59.798)
Well, you are too kind and a high compliment and encouragement coming from you. And I do remember that interview very well. And that was obviously, yeah, the first time me meeting you. And I just remember in that interview, like, man, if I get this gig, I'm really excited to work with and to get to know Shannon. And it was an absolute joy.
Everything Made Beautiful (02:23.331)
Mm.
Tony Calabrese (02:29.462)
during that season to work with you and to connect and to just build relationship. And I'm just grateful for you and your love and encouragement for me and our family. And I'm just, really excited for our time today. And thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (02:46.188)
Yeah, it's gonna be good. Absolutely. And thank you for those kind words. We had some good times and now God has led us both into different seasons and new chapters. And we're going to talk a little bit about transition today because we've both had a lot of it in our lives. And that isn't even a bad thing. I think people have to go through transitions or they can't help other people navigate them. So I definitely am excited to talk about that. But first,
Tony Calabrese (02:57.13)
Yep. Yeah.
Mmm. boy. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (03:11.094)
Mm. It's true.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:15.382)
Here's what we have to start with. Besides all the great things that I came away with in terms of who you are and how you're wired, one of the things that confounded me was how bougie you are about coffee. Like almost a little judgy, because like we'd come in for our normal meeting, you over time, like there was...
Tony Calabrese (03:15.69)
Yeah. Okay.
Tony Calabrese (03:27.542)
yep, I knew it,
Everything Made Beautiful (03:40.578)
this amassing of coffee implements and things. And I'm still just putting my little pot in the Keurig and you literally looked at me like, how can you do that as though was offensive? So talk to me about how this coffee persona became part of you.
Tony Calabrese (03:41.759)
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (03:59.274)
Ooh, yes, I certainly have some coffee paraphernalia in the repertoire. And depending on the morning, I will engage in said coffee experience. I would say that my coffee discipleship started in college. So I lived with a bunch of guys off campus.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:04.622)
you
Tony Calabrese (04:26.598)
never really liked coffee up until that point, but it always smelled so good. The smell of coffee for me for the longest thing was like, I'm a morning person. So I'd wake up early in the morning and just smelling the coffee. it it was like love at first smell. but it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't coffee. was, it was me. So it took me some time to get there. And then I, I was one of those, a little bit of coffee with the creamer type of guy. That's where it started. And then, when I moved to Kalamazoo, Michigan,
They had these third wave coffee shops and everyone was talking of this Chem X and this pour over. was like, what is this? And so one day this church I was on staff at, they had brewed a pot of this single origin coffee through this coffee brewer. And it was like, hey man, you need to try this. No creamer. I said, ah, I'm a creamer guy. was like, no, no, this is, this can be different. Trust me.
And as soon as the coffee hit my palate, was, I was in like a third heaven and it was just glory from there. Yeah. So, and so then he's like, okay, so now you got to try this, this type of coffee. I think it was like a Colombian through the Chemex. And so we're going to go to Black Owl is the name of the cafe. And they only serve that kind of coffee. They didn't have a brewer or didn't have drip. was like an espresso drink or you do a pour over. And so I was just hooked.
And so being a morning person, takes time to brew the water, turn the kettle on, grind the beans. And it's just a part of my weekly or my daily routine. And it's been like that for gosh, a long time, 16, 17 years, something like that. So yeah, I do have a little, a bougie palette when it comes to coffee. So.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:08.056)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:13.858)
Yeah, and I just want to apologize for what I know was the discomfort and the disruption that you felt watching me just press my cure egg pod. Uh-huh. I know. I know.
Tony Calabrese (06:21.994)
Deep disruption. Yeah, I needed to go into my prayer closet to pray for Shannon to be delivered from all things Keurig.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:31.662)
Can't save everyone, I guess. Yeah, I will. Yes, and I'll feel the requisite amount of shame tomorrow morning as I dig into my Keurig and my Kramer, because I do love them both. You did, you did. Uh-huh, there is.
Tony Calabrese (06:33.79)
You can't, can't, certainly can't, but you can pray for him though.
Tony Calabrese (06:45.908)
Yeah, I did try to convert you. I did try to convert you and you were, there was still hardness of heart happening. And I just, it's just, it's hard to break up, break up that, that hard soil. So.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:58.284)
You know, there's that scripture that says these things can only be accomplished through prayer and fasting. It's probably that type of situation, but that would require prayer and fasting.
Tony Calabrese (07:04.214)
Mmm. I prayed but I didn't fast. Yeah, I only prayed. I didn't partner prayer and fasting. So maybe I need to do that. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:15.054)
Well, it's funny that we mentioned prayer because I wasn't planning for it to be that smooth of a segue. But one of the things that I took note of about you, especially as you led people and led congregations, was the high, high value that you place on prayer, corporately, individually, communally, etc. And I think we would all, everybody who loves Jesus would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, we love prayer.
Tony Calabrese (07:21.791)
Ha ha ha ha!
Tony Calabrese (07:34.806)
you
Tony Calabrese (07:44.406)
Hmm
Everything Made Beautiful (07:44.494)
I confess that I don't have as broad or as deep an understanding of prayer as you do and I would love if you'd be willing for you to just talk about, I know you're always fired up to talk about prayer, but what is it about prayer that stirs you so deeply?
Tony Calabrese (07:54.72)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (08:05.366)
I think one, growing, growing, I think the circumstances in my early years growing up probably formed a lot of theological or practical significance for what prayer is. You know, growing up in a divorced home, my mom was a, was the first in our family lineage to, to be a follower of Jesus. And so she got radically saved.
And she, being a single divorced mom, deeply, deeply gave herself to prayer. I will always have imprinted in my mind the days I would wake up in the afternoons after lunch, in the mornings before bed, where I would either see my mom with a Bible open and praying, or I would
hear her in her bedroom praying. And so I just saw modeled for me where, man, circumstances of having three kids in the house and a single mom trying to make it, seeing the hand of God happen through prayer, deeply imprinted my heart and I probably made it personal. And that became an actualized experience for me in college. Once again, I think the people around me
formed my belief about prayer. I think there was always a curiosity and a mystery about prayer. And I think sometimes you can get turned off by prayer by hearing other people pray. It's like, man, well, I'm definitely not on that level. And so it's going to do one of two things. It's going to either put a disdain in your mouth for, in your heart towards prayer as you're hearing other people pray. Or it's going to be like, what, there's just something different about
them praying. This isn't like a spectacle of me praying, but they're praying from a well. They've encountered God in a certain place. And so those people in college, and I sort of had a second conversion experience in college, and I was just fortunate to be around those types of people. And that stirred up prayer all the more. And I think along the way in my personal journey,
Tony Calabrese (10:28.31)
not so much as a pastor, but just someone that's just trying to follow Jesus in the Western world. When you tend to read books and hear testimonies and history and stories of God moving and praying, there's something about that. I remember, if you know Evan Roberts, he was kind of sort of the tipping point leader of leading the Welsh revival in the early 1900s. And I remember
Him basically testifying about, this was on the other side of the actual revival. I remember him saying that there was a period for about 10 or 11 years where he spent nights thinking about and reading about revival. And then he said, this was the way that the Lord prepared me for revival. And so I think a part of cultivating hunger for anything in life, and we're talking about prayer,
I think part of it is looking back at what God has done in history through men and women of God, praying men and women of God, reading stories. And I just think you start to see those things and then you start to lean into those things and contend for those things. And then you start to see things happen in your personal life where it's just like, prayer is real, prayer works. And it's such a...
Everything Made Beautiful (11:47.523)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (11:53.554)
It's such a deep well, like no one ever arrives in their prayer life, ever. And so I think that's what probably keeps me coming back to prayer, is just a prayerful dependence of living out the days that we're living in. And I think as you transition through different seasons of life, at least for me, I've only leaned into prayer all the more. So, yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (12:18.946)
Yeah. Can you share a story that you remember either personally or in ministry where you saw God move powerfully through prayer that is kind of marked in your memory?
Tony Calabrese (12:31.157)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think, this might seem kind of, kind of silly, but I remember when I, when I met my wife, Kim, we met in college and I was leading a campus ministry. was volunteering for this large college ministry and I knew I was going to go in into ministry ultimately. And, in previous years I had, I was in some relationships that I shouldn't have been in. And so I just remember making this resolute conviction that I'm in the next
girl that I would date, like this wasn't gonna just be playing the dating game, but I wanted to give, I wanted to be done with playing that game. And I just remember just having a covenant with the Lord, where it's just like, okay, Lord, I need surety from you that the next relationship I engage in, I'm not giving away more of my life or my heart, but this is gonna be my wife. And so I remember I knew Kim for a long time, and during our college years.
And I just remember that we had ran together in different circles. We had worshiped together at this small church in Bloomington, normal Illinois at Illinois State University. And I just remember my heart and my attraction towards her went from friends to, man, there's some exclusive feelings that are happening in my heart for her. And I got really nervous, really fast. Cause again, we ran in the same circle of friends. was a very tight knit circle. I was like, okay, this is gonna get real awkward.
or I have these feelings for Kim and she's either going to reciprocate it or she's not, but this is going to blow up our friend circle. I was, so I, I gave 12 months to praying for my feelings because I was so resolute that I did not want to do what I had done in previous relationships as a young, immature college student. And through those 12 months, like,
Tony Calabrese (14:23.882)
This is where when you talk about God speaking and signs and wonders and things like that, I just remember seeing literal street signs of nicknames for Kim. Her last name was Rust. And so I remember driving one day and I saw this street sign called Rust and just random conversations with people. And so I just knew it was during that time that that was the Lord sort of nudging me.
And I just remember after 12 years, finally told Kim, took her for a walk. said, I just need to share where we're at. We've been friends. Here's my feelings. And when I told her, she was like, it's about time. Like it's about time. Cause she knew. They don't. And she was resolute on, not going to make the first move. Cause you know, she was feeling things. And so I think in a very sort of immature way, that was like, that was probably the beginning of me.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:03.534)
Yeah, I was going to say girls don't usually take that long. We're pretty keyed in pretty quickly.
Tony Calabrese (15:21.002)
being like, man, I really gave myself to believing in something and really needing God to just give me clarity and direction. And he did. And I would say the only, the other story maybe on the pastor ministry side is that when we were in the middle of 21 days of prayer and fasting in Kalamazoo, Michigan, where we felt a shift in our heart, we knew transition was coming. We had no reason to leave. We had the best five years of life ministry and marriage, the most fruitful years.
We had community, our family was in Michigan, had no reason to leave, had a great relationship with our lead pastor. And then all of a sudden there was this shift in my heart. And I was like, all right, well, we're gonna begin. This year was 2017 with 21 days of prayer and fasting. And it was halfway through that fast that God called us out of the boat into the waters of church planting, which ultimately led us to moving to Nashville.
And once again, for those 10 months of praying, bringing in mentors and just listening, there were like 20 different Nashville sightings. When we knew we were going to plant a church, we said yes to our biggest no, because we never had a dream to do that. But when we knew that we had a call to plant, it's like, okay, God, where would you send us? And we just prayed and said, hey, let's just pray for God to burden our heart for people in the city. And as we did,
Shannon in the most random places, Nashville, Tennessee, kept, was just, God was just plotting the course. because we have, we had no community or connection or network in Nashville. didn't know much about it. And so it was through those 10 months of praying, that God just made it evident and clear that he was calling us there.
That's what's kept us here. That's why we're here. That's where we're doing what we're doing is because we had a call and it was in the season of prayer and fasting.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:17.336)
Go back to what you just said. You said it quick, but it made me go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So it probably did for listeners too. You said, we said yes to our biggest no. And when you said that, like I was immediately reminded of my biggest no to the Lord, which was I will not do women's ministry. Yeah. And now it is the passion of my life. So,
Tony Calabrese (17:24.906)
Sir.
Tony Calabrese (17:28.616)
yeah.
Tony Calabrese (17:36.566)
That's funny and look at you now. Wow. It's funny.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:45.964)
Talk a little bit more about that and put that in a little more context for people because though we don't want to admit it and whether we have been as, you know, outright verbatim about our no, all of us have things that we're kind of daring the Lord to ask us to do so we can say no to them. So talk more about that.
Tony Calabrese (17:51.359)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (17:58.752)
Hmm.
Tony Calabrese (18:04.118)
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, I just think God is often wanting us to tap into our weakness to ultimately find his strength. And I think for me, I wouldn't say I have the stereotypical church planter profile. I'm not entrepreneurial. I'm not necessarily a starter. I'm not business savvy. I've come to know this now, but there's definitely a pioneering spirit that
back in 2018, I was like, no way, man, like we're not, it wasn't on our bucket list. And I think I had looked around to see the daunting task of planting a church, believed in it, believed in a local church, still do. I was just like, man, I can't do that. And I just remember during that season, it was almost that small whisper that just kind of keeps whispering over time where it was like, yeah, in your flesh, Tony, you can't do that.
But if you allow me, you will tap into a greater strength that you will need for the task at hand. And I think, you know, when you think about like the book, Strength Finders, and you know, there's a lot of organizations where tap into your strength. And I think that there's wisdom behind that, yes. But I think oftentimes God is wanting to strip us of our self-sufficiency. And I think when we say,
Nope, that's not for me or no, I'll never do that. It's like with God, like never say never, because it's so often that He only wants to make Himself more evident to you and through you. But then I think oftentimes God also cuts in with the redemptive edge to redeem the things that I'll never do women's ministry for these reasons, or I'll never plant a church for these reasons.
Tony Calabrese (20:02.492)
I think we don't have the foresight to see what's on the other side of our saying yes to our biggest no's. Because as I look back, it's like, man, I don't know what I would have done if we would have said no to our biggest no. We would not have met the people we have met. We would not have counted the God that we've come to know in this season. And we would not, I think there would be fruit. I don't think that there would be that much fruit that we have seen.
in our lives and in our family, confronting the things that we're just like, no, no, no, no, don't, don't. So I don't know if that's helpful or not.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:40.984)
Yeah, no, it is. I saw something posted on social media. I think it's Natalie Runyon. So I'm sorry if I'm attributing this wrong to anybody who's listening. But I think it was Natalie Runyon that posted, never say never to God or he will have you never ring like you have never nevered before. And I thought, yeah, don't tell God what you'll never do. So
Tony Calabrese (20:52.885)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (20:59.958)
I love that. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (21:07.936)
Well, I would love to talk about seasons of transition because like I said, we've both been through them. But first, for people who are listening, who feel like prayer is hard or it's dry or it's rote or it's confusing for them, how would you encourage them in just a next right step as it relates to prayer?
Tony Calabrese (21:11.595)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (21:21.334)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (21:30.696)
Man, I think a large, for those people, I would broaden it to say for anybody, especially for me, I think it's getting the correct view and vision for who God is. I think prayer begins with your God view. It begins with your mental model for when you think of God, what do you think of Him?
oftentimes share that famous A.W. Tozer quote, you know, what comes in your mind when you think about God is the most important thing about you. what people often miss out is the next chunk of that paragraph in that incredible book, Pursuit of God. And he says, tend to by secret, how do say it? We tend to by secret law of the soul move towards our mental image of God. And so if you think about God as this
Everything Made Beautiful (22:22.325)
Mm. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (22:27.144)
all-powerful taskmaster, then that's how you're ultimately going to come to Him. Or if you think about God as a, you know, I'm trying to be a good person, I'm trying to not be as bad as I was because God's always calling out the makes and the misses in my life, then that's how you're going to come to God. And so I think having the proper view of who God is in the context of prayer is paramount.
And when you look at Jesus teaching his disciples of prayer, and I think that's why I've always been connected to prayer, is that I've been ruled, I've enrolled in the school of prayer and I haven't graduated yet. And when you begin to look at how Jesus taught to pray, when he addressed God, he always addressed God as Father. And that was a, for a first century Jew, that was scandalous to identify God as Father.
And that was ultimately of all the purposes that Jesus came to earth for, that's under all purposes is to reveal God as Father, because he had yet to be revealed as a Father up until that time in history. God was always all powerful. He was coming through in the pillar of cloud by day and the fire by night and striking the rock and water coming out. But it was God knowable. Is God knowable? Yes, he is. How? As Father.
And so I think as we start to form our, have a correct view of God as Father in the context of prayer, and when Jesus teaches about persistence, who are the most persistent human beings on the planet? Kids, children, they can't stop asking. They are always asking. Like I'm thinking about my kids. Like you can say no a number of times, but they keep coming with the same questions and they're asking and they're asking and it's just like,
At some point a father is going to be like, stop asking me. Do not ask me again. But God never says that. He invites us to ask and to ask again and to ask again and to ask again. so I think the starting point for prayer is to frame up prayer in the context of relationship and coming to God as father because he wants to commune with his kids.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:26.37)
Yeah, don't ask me that again.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:31.214)
Mm.
Tony Calabrese (24:52.82)
Because if I see God as a father, what does that make me? A son or daughter? I'm not an illegitimate son. I'm not an illegitimate daughter. I am an adopted son in his family. And he calls me by name and I'm his child. And that's how I'm to come to him. And when Blazon tribe come to me, they don't come to me and say, Mr. Calabrese, a pastor, Tony, they come as, dad, dad.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:10.222)
That's so good.
Tony Calabrese (25:20.798)
And that's exactly how God wants us to come to Him. Hey, Father, we think we have to conjure up all these theological deep prayers and, no, some of the deepest conversations I have with my kid are on the couch. It's not in a sit down, let's have coffee, let's get a steak out and let's get prim and proper. No, it's communing on the couch.
And that's really what prayer is. We won't get there unless we see God as who He truly is, Father.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:54.392)
So good. So assessing our view of God and ensuring we rightly understand Him as our Father is a great first step toward unlocking something and what it means to pray and not pray to your point mechanically or robotically, but in the kind of intimacy and the comfort that a child has with their parents, with their loving parent.
Tony Calabrese (26:02.518)
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (26:15.082)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (26:21.288)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, my prayer journey was coming to God, petitioning for things that I need. And then as you grow, you start to come to God to intercede and to have intercession for others. But the last place to get to, and I think this is the starting point, and what prayer primarily should be, is prayer as communing with God. Or I don't come with a pretense or agenda or my list. He wants those.
But what he first wants is connection and communion with our hearts.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:54.008)
Yeah, so good. Well, speaking of prayer and the way that it serves us, I know that for you and for me, we have both walked through seasons of transition. And I would say in my life, like I am not a person that it can be said she was in that spot for 25 years or 30 years. And there are people who are lifers places and that is
Tony Calabrese (27:06.293)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (27:17.056)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:22.868)
such a gift. But then there's also a gift of I've had the benefit of seeing the work of God across many different contexts and my understanding of his ability to show up in so many different places is fairly broad. And I know you've had a similar journey and we both over the last year have had a similar
Tony Calabrese (27:33.046)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:48.14)
journey. It's been about a year now for both of us that we've been doing the next thing God's asked us to do. And I think you would agree with me that transition creates a really fertile soil for spiritual growth. So I would love for you to just talk about that. Talk about how you have seen transition. Not saying it's easy, not saying it's always expected, not saying it's not
Tony Calabrese (27:50.442)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (27:55.371)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (28:05.332)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (28:14.354)
No. No.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:17.906)
ripe with opportunities for anxiety, but it's also really ripe ground for spiritual growth. Why do you think that is?
Tony Calabrese (28:18.357)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (28:24.596)
Yeah. Yeah. think, I think transition is, I think transition is the place where God does some of his best work and in our lives. And when you think about transition, you're, you're coming from somewhere and you're going to somewhere and it's in the gap that I would just say for, to frame this up. That's what I would call transition. It's the
the gap between what was and what's to come. And there's so much unknown between what was known and what's unknown. And it's this weird kind of transition. like when you, it's somewhere between like a butterfly and a caterpillar. Like you're not, you're not crawling, but you can't fly yet either. And so it's this land in between and
we sort of get to a place, and I will speak of my transitions, and I think as I think about your transition and other people that I've had the chance to just walk with and do life with or pastor, transition can be very disorienting. And you ask the question, well, what's next? Or where do I go from here? And so there's this sense where there's this helpless and sort of hopeless feeling.
as we try to map out the journey of what's called transition. And when you think about, why is God putting us in transition? One, I think God puts us in transition because we're in need to be repositioned, where we've settled somewhere, or we've become content somewhere, and God's repositioning us to ultimately step into what you said was
what's the right next thing that God has for us in our journey. And speaking from experience, you know, the places that we've transitioned from, oftentimes there's a level of comfortability that we find in that current season that we're in where, this is, I love the job and I love the season. I love where I'm living and I love the people I've met. And you just, tend to become really comfortable. And I think the greatest enemy and the greatest barrier to ultimately stepping into the fulfillment.
Tony Calabrese (30:48.318)
of God's destiny for our life, the ultimate enemy isn't confusion, it's actually comfort. The greatest temptation is for us to live our life in the comfort zone. And when I think about when I lived in Michigan, like it was the most comfortable season of like, literally our Kim side of the family was moving up to Michigan. We quickly found a community of people that we did life with very deeply.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:56.59)
That's good.
Tony Calabrese (31:17.65)
I was in a fly high season and at the end of the day, God's always trying to get us out of our comfort zone because faith does not live in that comfortable setting. I tend to be someone that wants convenience and ease. And I think ultimately, Shannon, to follow Jesus Christ means coming to follow Jesus Christ and to come into our calling means to come out of our comfort. And I think God will use transition.
to get us to that place where He moves us and He nudges us. And we once again come back to being confronted with difficulty and discomfort. And so when we reposition, sometimes when we're repositioning, it's the right time to realign ourselves with who God is and His will for our lives. We tend to sort of re-up our commitment and our devotion to Him.
God sort of is rearranging the furniture in our life to re-prioritize the things that we once lost living in the land of comfort. And so, and it's ultimately when we're in a place of obscurity, is forming our identity. It's a place of identity formation. And some of the greatest invitations of life will only come in the form of transition. And I actually think transition isn't an enemy. It's an invitation and a gift. Where we get an upgraded revelation of
Everything Made Beautiful (32:41.454)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (32:44.028)
of who Jesus is and what he's doing in us. And I think we all actually come into a deeper reality of who we're created to redeem to be in that place, because it's not going to happen in comfort land.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:55.768)
Yeah, I so resonate with what you're saying. And it's interesting because, I mean, I have vulnerably shared before and I will again that I felt those, you just kind of described it like this and I would describe it the same way. I started feeling those hints of, hey, it's time to start considering what may be next. I bucked it.
Tony Calabrese (33:20.106)
Mmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:22.286)
And I tried six ways to Sunday to have both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me consider what's next and also do all of this. And okay, well, hey, maybe if I just take one step back from all of this, I can still do all of this and consider what's next. And I think I probably drug that out for a year. And at the end of the day, it was...
Tony Calabrese (33:28.448)
Hmm.
Tony Calabrese (33:43.356)
Mmm, yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:47.05)
it was God going, are you gonna obey me completely or are you gonna try to have one foot on the boat and one foot on the dock unendingly here? But it's interesting because the discomfort of the unknown is a very scary proposition. And so we will more often than not choose the comfort of the known, no matter how.
Tony Calabrese (33:53.94)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (34:02.07)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (34:07.466)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:14.678)
you know, healthy or unhealthy it is over the discomfort of the unknown. And in my story, and I'm sure yours, the first question people ask when you're transitioning is, what happened? Because we are conditioned, even though everything you said is true, and I was nodding and I believe it, we're conditioned to assume transition immediately means something's bad versus in the same way God said to Abraham, get up and go.
Tony Calabrese (34:18.336)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (34:27.594)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (34:40.135)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (34:44.64)
That's right.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:45.036)
We're just following the Lord and He's not, there are some of us who are not going to stay where we are forever. We're going to be people who move and who follow the call of the Lord. But I appreciate your teaching to us that it's, those seasons of transition are an invitation.
Tony Calabrese (34:55.2)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:05.624)
to be refined and to be sanctified in a way that won't happen in comfort. It's the discomfort of that liminal space that has such refining power in our lives. So that's so helpful.
Tony Calabrese (35:05.782)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (35:10.912)
Yup.
Tony Calabrese (35:15.486)
Yeah. And when you think, yeah, and as you were saying, Shane, I was thinking about, you know, the story of Peter, you know, we know Peter is the, you he delivered the first sermon in the early church and he was this apostle and God prepared him to do all the incredible miraculous things, to be a catalyst in the early church and as a pillar and as a leader. And
One of the many defining moments happened when the Lord transitioned him to get out of the boat. He only ever walked on land, but yet there was God summoning him to do something that no other human had done outside of Jesus himself was to walk on water. And there was such a dependence that Peter needed that as he kept his eyes on Jesus transitioning to him, he stayed afloat. But the moment that he took his eyes off, and so
I think Peter got in touch with, got in touch with the power and the reality of Jesus that would ultimately come to live in him, to live out all the other things that God's calling him to do. and I think when, once we come, once we become acquainted with, discomfort and, and transition, you're either going to white knuckle your way through that transition.
or you will come to a place where it's the Jehoshaphat. Lord, we don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:52.302)
Yes. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (36:53.758)
And so you get in touch with that and it's just like, man, I don't know what to do about why my are on you. I can only depend on you. I don't know what's next. I don't know I'm gonna make this through. And then you make it through and you look back, like, whoa, this was totally the Lord. I saw his hand do this. I've never actually, I don't think I've ever encountered God that way before. I didn't see that side of him. And so that.
That just becomes, I just think transition is also a preparation zone as well, where it prepares you for what God's ultimately preparing you for. And I look back at all the transitions of my life. I didn't know it then. I didn't have the insight of hindsight then, but I do now to see that I've transitioned through all those things where it's like, oh, transition again. And it's like, okay, this one's going to be hard, but I know what to do. I know where to go. I know where to look for, where to look for him. So.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:47.65)
Well, in our dependence, I don't naturally embrace dependence on Jesus in my seasons of comfort when I kind of, I know what I'm doing, I know what's coming, I kind of know the lay of the land, I know the schedule, I know the responsibilities, I know the expectations. I find that I really, really quickly default to self-sufficiency.
Tony Calabrese (37:48.406)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (38:00.47)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:15.274)
when I'm in transition seasons and when I don't know what's next, my relationship with God is deeper. It's much more acute. Like it almost kind of feels like it sizzles a little bit. I see His hand. I see His work everywhere. And so the real challenge for me, and I think the challenge for all of us is just because we get where we're going, not to lose that posture of dependence on God for everything in front of us.
Tony Calabrese (38:19.443)
Mm-hmm.
Tony Calabrese (38:24.592)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (38:29.76)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (38:42.218)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:45.1)
So that is, that's what I've had to even just recently be like, just because you think you kind of know what's going on, don't lose this sweet season of, don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you. What would you say to someone who is currently in a season of transition? And I mean, maybe it's a job change, maybe it's a move, maybe it's a relational shift, maybe something's happening in their marriage, or maybe there's a,
Tony Calabrese (38:55.574)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (38:59.168)
Yeah, yeah.
Tony Calabrese (39:09.536)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:13.78)
spiritual transition, but you know we've been talking about how God has become really close to us in those seasons and we've experienced him that way. What about people who feel like God is silent as they're in a season of transition? What encouragement would you give to them?
Tony Calabrese (39:23.231)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (39:28.054)
Mm.
Tony Calabrese (39:33.078)
Yeah, I think, and I think I would, I would probably come, I'd come back to the, to the reality of, of God. What is his ultimate purpose in, our life in the midst of that? And what means is he going to use to get us in touch with, to get us in touch with that? And I think in seasons of transition, it can be very dark. It can be very lonely. And, there you come to a place where,
yeah, I feel like God's silent. I feel like I'm, this has jolted me and I just heard about this transition and I wasn't preparing for this. And, you know, I think that in the, in the midst of that, I think the opportunity here's, here's what I'll say. I think his perceived absence sometimes equals God's silence. And I actually think that that is the
prime condition for God to actually, break through with his voice, with his presence, with provision. And I don't think that we ever get to the core foundation of God's character and his love, because it's not always proven by the way that I feel his presence or how I hear his voice. The love of God isn't always proven by the way that I...
deal with his actual presence. Like he's there, he loves me. The love of God is proven by the way that I deal with his perceived absence. Where it's not always proven when I get to thank him for his blessings like in a season of transition. But the love of God is proven when I cannot feel him or sense him or hear him.
you know, with Easter sort of being around the corner, it's interesting that when you begin to read all the accounts of the resurrection, you ever realize all the things that are missing on Easter morning? Like the women went to the tomb alone, where's the men? Missing. You know, the stone rolled away, not there, the body of Jesus missing. And I think what's profound to me when you think about that, and I think this is true in the season of
Tony Calabrese (41:53.224)
of transition because it can feel like a tomb. It can feel really dark and really alone and cold. What's profound to me is that the greatest demonstration in the revealing of God's power came in the moment when Jesus wasn't there. The proof of God's power was in what was missing, not what was there. There was some cloth, there was a cloth there. And so the greatest demonstration of God's power was His absence in the place where the women went to look for Him.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:10.191)
So good. So good.
Tony Calabrese (42:20.648)
And so there is this perceived absence in the midst of, of, of transition. And it's in those times and in those moments where there's the perceived absence and the perceived silence that actually the power of God's love and the power of God's presence and the power of God's provision is to come in a greater way versus man, I feel him because I think this allows us to Shannon to tap into
This is where the rubber of our faith hits the road. Where I know by faith that His promises are X, and Z. Great. So what are you going to do when you can't see or feel those things? And the deepening of our faith is just being rooted all the more. And so my encouragement would be is to just continue to remain faithful to the things that you know about God that are true.
and to bring those things. And I just remember in those seasons of transition where God, man, God, where are you? Like, are you, you orchestrated this and you're not even here. Are you seeing what's going on? Like, I just remember journaling all these. I remember journaling and just reading the Psalms over and over and continuously in the midst of that season.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:34.296)
Are you seeing what's happening?
Tony Calabrese (43:50.358)
at just the right time, God would would open the door and begin to back the truck of provision in those seasons. And when I realized that there was a testing of my heart, there was a refining of my motives, I didn't have to rely on my feelings. And I had to actually believe and put my faith to the test that I believe these things to be true. There's a gap right now. These are the promises that I know, but I'm not experiencing these.
And so my faith needs to fill that. My prayers need to fill that gap. And ultimately God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. And why would we diligently seek Him when we see Him and know Him and feel Him and we're in a fly high season and yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:33.112)
Yeah, that's good. I love that.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:42.956)
Yeah, I love the resurrection analogy, that Easter analogy of he wasn't in any of the places they were looking for him. In fact, the angels are like, why are you looking for the living among the dead? know, so Mary is crying at the tomb because he's not there. And he actually is. He's right behind her and and showing up not in the way that she imagined him to be, which, yeah, that's
Tony Calabrese (44:54.58)
Yes, I'm under debt, yeah.
Tony Calabrese (44:59.85)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yes, that's good.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:10.754)
That's encouragement for us and that's hope for us when we are facing one direction crying because he's not there. It's very likely that he is standing right behind us in a completely different way than we expected him to show up. That's so good. Well, speaking of transitions, you have planted a church. And so I'd love for you to just tell us about the gathering and tell us anything you want us to know about this new endeavor.
Tony Calabrese (45:23.936)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (45:31.179)
Yes.
Tony Calabrese (45:35.584)
Mmm.
Yeah, yeah. This past summer, our family endeavored to pioneer and start something once again. You know, we moved here in 2018 to plant a church and that season was, was short-lived as the Lord transitioned us out. were in the middle of COVID and we had to, it was a necessary ending. We had to end that, end that season. And so that, that, that dream that we had in our hearts is, has been alive more than ever. And so,
Yeah, this past summer we started a new community called The Gathering in Spring Hill, Tennessee. And we started gathering in a home once a month on a Sunday. It was called Waffles in Word before it was called The Gathering. And that was us sort of, go ahead.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:23.15)
I do think Waffles in Word might have been a more attractional name for a church. I'm just saying.
Tony Calabrese (46:30.318)
Yeah, totally. Just saying. People were a little disheartened that we had to get rid of our, the waffles in word terminology, but we just wanted to, we gathered every last Sunday of the month and we sort of were testing the waters to see what God was going to breathe on. And so we did that for several months. And then as we turned over the calendar year to 2025, we officially became the gathering, but it was
Everything Made Beautiful (46:40.11)
You
Tony Calabrese (46:59.85)
just a homegrown, slowgrown, I guess approach. You we learned a lot from planting a church the first time. So yeah, we just wanted to gather people under one roof, under one name and just run after his heart. And we opened up the scriptures together. We prayed a lot and just invited the God of the universe to invade our places and spaces. And so, yeah, just a couple of weeks ago we started
gathering in a rental venue in Spring Hill and it has been one of the most freeing, joy-filled seasons of ministry. This is my 19th year of being in ministry as a pastor and this has been the most freeing, most liberating, most powerful, joy-filled season of ministry. I've had some really good ones, but this one is very special and very unique.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:39.502)
Mm.
Tony Calabrese (48:00.091)
and absolutely adore the people that we get a chance to do life with in this season.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:07.18)
Well, congratulations on that. Church planting is not for the faint of heart, and I know you know that. And I know that people listening who have either been engaged in a church plant or planted one themselves are thinking, we understand, set up, tear down, like we get it all. So I would just say to those of you listening,
Tony Calabrese (48:10.612)
Yeah.
No. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (48:22.314)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:27.648)
If you feel led to support Pastor Tony and Kim in any way through the gathering, I will put all their information in the show notes so that you can support them financially or otherwise. If you are looking for a church home, if you are in Franklin or Spring Hill or the surrounding middle Tennessee areas and you don't have a church home, check it out. I can say that through my experience of
Tony Calabrese (48:50.325)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:55.67)
Tony, he is truly a pastor shepherd. So you will know him if you decide to be part of his church body. So Tony, congratulations on that. And it's my prayer that you will see God
Tony Calabrese (49:05.558)
Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:11.882)
show up in ways that you never imagined and that he would blow you away with provision and with his nearness in this season. So I'm grateful for the words you used, liberating and free. Like those are million dollar words and I'm really glad you're using them to describe this season. Before we go, because you've shared so much good stuff with us, I'm gonna be re-listening to this as I get it ready.
Tony Calabrese (49:15.222)
Hmm.
Tony Calabrese (49:18.848)
Yeah. Amen. Thank you.
Tony Calabrese (49:28.884)
Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:41.198)
because so much of it is encouraging to me. So thank you for your wisdom. But I do want to ask you the question that I always ask all my guests because this is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and we believe that God is always in the process of restoring and repairing the breach and making everything beautiful in its time. And so we want to consider beautiful things. So if you could design an architect your perfect beautiful day.
Tony Calabrese (49:44.054)
Hmm. Yes.
Tony Calabrese (49:52.672)
That's right.
Tony Calabrese (49:56.63)
Yes.
Tony Calabrese (50:00.032)
Yeah.
Tony Calabrese (50:03.368)
Mmm. Cool.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:09.868)
what would it look like from start to finish?
Tony Calabrese (50:13.152)
Wow. Okay. Well, a beautiful day would start with a beautiful cup of coffee.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:20.974)
Of course, of course.
Tony Calabrese (50:23.446)
through a Kalita Wave or a V60. Sorry, those are coffee brewers. Those are vessels to brew the coffee. One's a flatbed, one's a cone dripper. I know.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:28.63)
Are those cars? Like, what is that?
Everything Made Beautiful (50:37.474)
Yeah, you're so fanc- you are so fancy. You have talked about that like people talk about cars and guitars.
Tony Calabrese (50:44.898)
Yes, yeah, it's my, yeah, it's a holy habit. So I would start with a really good cup of coffee. Are we like, am I architecting the weather too?
Everything Made Beautiful (50:50.487)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (50:56.844)
Yep, anything in your, what is your perfect day?
Tony Calabrese (50:59.7)
Yeah, I actually love when there's not a cloud in the sky and it's just all blue and all sun. Love some good cirrus clouds and cumulus clouds, but if there's like no clouds and it's blue, blue skies, 75 degrees, I'm probably going to be outside. I'll probably spend my morning looking out on the deck at the trees in my backyard. And then I think from there,
a beautiful day would be, having some good, good Bible time, some prayer time. And then from there, wow. I would, I would absolutely go on a lunch date with my wife, Kim, play some kind of board games with my kids, throw the ball around with my sons. man.
And.
probably grilling a good steak or maybe doing some hibachi on the blackstone. I'm kind of a simple guy. Yeah, that would probably be my day. And then to finish off the day, a beautiful day would be finishing off the day with some really good friends or on the fire pit. That would make my ideal beautiful day.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:06.958)
Wow.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:26.528)
Love it. Thank you for sharing that. Your beautiful day is very accessible. I feel like any of us could be participating in that and would love it. So yes, thank you. And thank you so much for coming on the show and just for sharing from your heart with us. It's encouraging and I know there are people listening that it will be a word in season four. So thank you.
Tony Calabrese (52:27.764)
Yeah, simple.
Tony Calabrese (52:49.706)
Well, thank you for helping all of us make everything beautiful in our lives through providing this platform and this content as I have listened and encouraged and read through all the things that God's doing through you. So thank you for putting your hand to the plow for us to till up the soil, to ultimately plant seeds, to harvest all the beautiful things that God's doing in our lives. He's in the hard season. So thank you. Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (53:19.182)
Yeah, thank you for saying that. And to everyone listening, as I said, I'll put Tony's information and his church information in the show notes for you to follow along and support. And don't forget to be on the lookout today for all the ways that God is making everything beautiful, including you. And we will see you next time.