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Current Season: First Draft Live
Between economic whiplash, shifting policies and market volatility that changes by the hour, you need industry insights that cut through the noise. That's exactly why we're launching First Draft Live, a new weekly series that breaks down what's happening, why it matters and what you need to know to do better business.
Join us live on Bisnow.com every Friday at 12:30 PM ET / 9:30AM PT for conversations with the industry's sharpest minds discussing the week's most critical stories, or catch the replay right afterwards — here on your podcast app of choice.
Alright. Welcome to First Draft Live. It's Tuesday, March 17. I'm Mark Bonner, Bisnow's editor in chief coming to you live from New York. So commercial real estate entered 2026 with a fairly clear storyline.
Mark Bonner:Interest rates would fall, liquidity would return, And after two punishing years of rising borrowing costs, installed transactions, the long awaited recovery might finally begin to take hold. For a few months, that actually seemed to be happening. Global real estate transaction volumes climbed to roughly $650,000,000,000 in 2025, still well below the $1,000,000,000,000 peak in 2021, but it was a clear sign that activity was stabilizing coming into the year. Capital markets were reopening. Private lenders were stepping back into deals.
Mark Bonner:The ten year moved into the mid threes, and that's when people started to believe the worst might be over. But if the past few years have taught this industry anything, it's that clarity rarely lasts long. Real estate has spent the better part of this decade navigating one disruption after another. The pandemic, the fastest rate hikes in forty years, regional bank failures, tariff battles, reshaping supply chains, and now renewed geopolitical instability in global energy markets. At this hour, that instability is centered in The Middle East.
Mark Bonner:That's because over the past two weeks, the escalating conflict between The United States and Iran with strikes on energy infrastructure, attacks on commercial shipping, and a sharp drop in tanker traffic through the Strait Of Hormuz has rattled global markets. Oil is holding just above a $100 a barrel, which is raising fresh concerns about inflation just as the Federal Reserve meets this week with policy rates still sitting around five and a half percent. And the macro backdrop is only getting more complicated. Washington is easing sanctions on Venezuelan oil to stabilize, supply. Tariffs and trade tensions continue to reshape global industrial demand, and regulators are beginning to raise fresh questions about stress in the $2,000,000,000,000 private credit market that has become a major source of financing for commercial real estate.
Mark Bonner:All of this arrives at a particularly sensitive moment for the industry. Roughly $1,500,000,000,000 in real estate loans are expected mature by 2027. Much of that was originated when borrowing costs were dramatically lower, which means refinancing, not acquisitions, remains the central financial challenge facing the market. To help us think through how this latest geopolitical shock fits into that picture, I'm joined today by Greg Friedman, CEO of Peachtree Group. Greg runs one of the most active private credit platforms in all of commercial real estate, which means he sits right in the middle of the capital stack and sees how borrowers and investors react when uncertainty hits the market.
Mark Bonner:Greg, welcome to First Draft Live.
Greg Friedman:Yeah. Thank you, Mark, for having me today. So I look forward to talking more about the market, and you did a really good job opening it up and talking about a lot of the challenges, and those challenges do create a lot of opportunities as well.
Mark Bonner:So the all eyes in the financial world are currently on a 21 mile stretch of the Strait Of Hormuz. I'm sure your eyes are there too. We talked about the price of oil. We've talked about some of the downstream impacts on inflation, particularly in The United States. Greg, from where you sit and from what you're looking at on your desk right now, how do you view this current situation with The United States and Iran?
Greg Friedman:Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, to begin with, you know, it's it's never good to see conflict, and you don't like seeing the conflict that we're experiencing in The Middle East right now because it it harms a lot of individuals. But as it relates to just business in general, it's something we are paying attention to because it does, you know, how, you know, how you look at our assets from a value perspective, especially in the face of this wall of debt maturities that you referenced that, know, one and a half trillion dollars of loans maturing between now and 2027. It impacts the, you know, the direction of inflation. Again, that's going to have again continue to have that negative pressure on interest rates.
Greg Friedman:But potentially it could impact, you know, some people would argue it could impact maybe demand because we're invested very heavily in the hospitality space. And as oil prices stay higher, I mean, you're seeing it right now, you know, gas prices are up to close to 30% since the start of this conflict over the last three weeks. And, you know, you already have the K shaped economy that's been discussed. It's only going to make it, more make challenging for the K shape economy, especially that mid tier, lower tier customer that's traveling or trying to travel today. So I mean, I think when you look at all factors, you know, depending on how this plays out, this could have a huge negative impact on commercial real estate.
Greg Friedman:And and there's no question that, this is, at least for us, this is one of the biggest factors, I think, that could impact how 2026 plays out.
Mark Bonner:Look, we're a little bit less than twenty four hours away from finding out what the central bank is gonna do in The United States. Listen. Just a few weeks ago, the conversation across the industry was how quickly interest rates might fall this year. Three cuts were anticipated before Iran. Now the Fed meets tomorrow.
Mark Bonner:Investors are asking a different question. Whether inflation and this risk in Iran could delay those cuts. From where you sit, how sensitive is commercial real estate today to even the smallest of shifts in that rate outlook that was so crystal clear, it seemed, four three or four weeks ago.
Greg Friedman:Yeah. So I think it's it's probably more sensitive to how long term interest rates behave. Obviously, a lot of people are borrowing off short term rates, and that's gonna have, you know, an impact on cash flows for for many people. I don't expect the Fed to cut rates here, you know, given what's happening. I think it's very unlikely.
Greg Friedman:But it's also I do think, you know, at the when you look at how you value commercial real estate assets, I mean, you're you're basically looking at the risk free rate and you're applying some type of risk premium spread above it. There's no question with the conflict that raises more risk in the market. You could argue, you know, as you try to value these assets and even lenders, as they're lending to assets, their spreads are sort of a reflection of the risk of the asset they're lending to. And this conflict creates more risk. My expectations are that you're going to see probably values potentially, at least from a transitory perspective, drop a little bit because I expect the ten year, which has risen over the last couple of weeks and is in the 4.20s, so it's going to remain sticky around 4.2% from my perspective and maybe even rises if, you know, oil prices continue to rise as well.
Greg Friedman:So I mean, there's there's risk here. But I do think, you know, to directly answer your question, real estate is very much it very much correlates to where, you know, what's happening with rates. And just given the fact that I expect long term rates to stay higher for now, and depending on how long this this conflict lasts, I mean, it could have a, you know, could have a major impact one way or the other.
Mark Bonner:I mean, are you are you dismayed that we're back to this whole hire for longer conversation? I mean, that that was the dominant theme on interest rates for the last three years. Right? Finally, we come back from Christmas. We get into the first couple weeks of the year.
Mark Bonner:A lot of optimism surrounding what the central bank is gonna do with the political situation regarding the Fed aside. It certainly seemed like Jerome Powell and the governors that were gonna lower rates this year. That was gonna be a breath of fresh share. Some some additional wind of optimism in the sales of commercial real estate and people who play in the financial markets. Are you dismayed by this dynamic that all of a sudden what probably would have been a cut four weeks ago is now probably gonna be a hole tomorrow?
Greg Friedman:I mean, I'm not I'm not surprised because this has been, you know, with the new administration. And I think they're they're trying to do a lot of great things long term. So I do, you know, believe in, you know, some of the things that they're trying to accomplish. But I want to say that a lot of this has been counterproductive to their goal of reducing rates, because they've been very vocal about trying to bring rates down. But the you know, if you go back to the beginning of the new administration, they were very focused on, you know, inflation or excuse me, on tariffs, which were very inflationary driven.
Greg Friedman:You know, didn't allow the Fed to reduce rates back then. They've continued to have, you know, different factors that have led to, you know, to have negative impacts on inflation. And this is just another event in my eyes that is going to make it very tough for the Fed to lower rates in the near term. On the flip side, I mean, you want to take a contrarian view because of the conflict, and you saw this at the beginning, you know, the ten year came down because, you know, you started seeing capital, you know, because the ten year is one of the safest assets to invest into. So you're seeing, you know, capital flow into the ten year and bringing down, you know, long term rates.
Greg Friedman:And maybe as if this conflict stays longer than we expect, you know, potentially rates may just come down because it may have a huge negative impact to the economy, which isn't a good thing either. So, I mean, there is I mean, the rate story may change just given that we may economically end up in a place that we don't wanna end up in because of the conflict.
Mark Bonner:So Does that offset? I mean, if if we have a bad economy, but rates are lower. I understand that money is pragmatic. I understand that these decisions are pragmatic. It's gonna always go to wherever its greatest rate of return, on investment is.
Mark Bonner:But does that does that is that good news for you on some weird level that even though we're in a negative economy, perhaps again, I'm not speculating on this, if we were to slip in a recession and have lower rates, does does that offset? Like, do you want rates to be low in a negative economy? Is that is that an opportunity to take advantage of the dip? Like, walk me through that, Greg.
Greg Friedman:Yes. I think from our perspective, it's not what we want to see. We we want to see the economy continue to remain stable, allow, you know, the market to continue to grow. I think, you know, in an ideal situation, we can get through this conflict over the next couple of weeks. And the repercussions of this conflict is going to be, again, a headwind to developing new product because, you know, costs, you know, we still have to deal with higher energy costs in the near term, which is going make it more expensive, you know, because oil and gas is going to stay higher.
Greg Friedman:So it's going be more expensive to construct new product. That's another reason not to develop. Today, supply has already been muted across the board. So it's not to answer your question, we don't want to see the economy fall apart because ultimately, just because rates come down short term because of the economy falling apart, you're still going to see spreads, you know, debt spreads or risk premium spreads probably widen out a bit, and that's gonna offset some of the the, you know, reduction in the indexes. So it's not as favorable, you know, as one would think.
Greg Friedman:But the perfect I guess the perfect situation, what we'd like to see is and what we're seeing right now is this, is that it's not impacting, at least for now, we haven't seen clear impact to demand for, for real estate, like meaning at the level of like someone wanting, you know, retail space, office space, hotels, you know, multifamily. People are still traveling. People are still renting, you know, housing units. There's still housing shortages. And so there's still a lot of need for commercial real estate.
Greg Friedman:I mean, this unfortunately, this conflict is just creating balance. You know, it's continuing that balance sheet challenge to your point at higher for longer long term rates. It's just creating more broken, you know, capital structures. And it's going to be I think, you know, this year, it's just going to be another catalyst to the opportunity set to someone that's looking to invest capital today. They're probably going to find some incredible opportunities on the, you know, the ability to go acquire assets.
Greg Friedman:If you're, you know, lending, you know, we acquire assets, we develop assets. We also do a lot of direct lending, and we're finding a lot of incredible opportunities on the direct lending side where, you know, banks are concerned about lending today because of the conflict. We're also finding lenders that are looking to sell off exposure because they're concerned, you know, because private credit, obviously, outside of this conflict was already in the news. This is just another factor that's causing, you know, a lot of the regional banks to consider selling off exposure and we're the beneficiary of those. So there's, you know, although there's a lot of challenges, and I'm taking your question a little bit differently, there's, you know, a lot of challenges and these challenges are create these are huge tailwinds to the opportunities that exist that we see.
Mark Bonner:I mean, this is just like the fifth challenge upon, amongst many over the last eighteen months or so. But I mean, listen, you're seeing how borrowers are reacting in real time. Right? Do deals pause? Do lenders tighten assumptions, or does the market mostly try to look through the noise?
Mark Bonner:On that last point, I think there was a lot of people who thought, oh, this is gonna be over in a couple weeks. Right? And the longer this goes on, I I think, you know, it's increasingly likely that it's more than a few weeks. Maybe it's a few months. Right?
Mark Bonner:But, Greg, I mean, are deals pausing? Like, what what is going on with borrowers right now as on this particular issue?
Greg Friedman:Yeah. So I think real time, you're starting to see certain lenders slow down on lending. So some of the, you know, the slowdown we're seeing is coming, you know, in some cases from some of these private credit lenders because of the noise in the news. You know, some of them are pulling back not necessarily directly due to the conflict in The Middle East, but due to the noise within private credit. You're seeing, you know, some investors concerned about what's going to happen.
Greg Friedman:They want to see some they want to see what happens with the conflict in The Middle East before they move projects forward. So you are starting to see things slow down. I think if the conflict if we're talking about this three months from now, you know, depending on how the conflict is playing out, it could be something that, you know, creates, it could be a huge negative impact to any transaction getting done or it could, you know, ultimately be a non factor if it becomes something that, you know, that we have under control, you know, like meaning, you know, people view this as an issue that's out there. There's a conflict, but it's under control and there's a little bit more direction and certainty to how the outcome's going to play out. So, I mean, it's it really comes down to what what happens over the next six to eight weeks.
Greg Friedman:But I think when this conflict started, most people I talked to expected this would be over within a couple of weeks. And it's sort of like the discussion. I feel like we're back in this go back four years ago because commercial real estate is under heavy fatigue because of everything you mentioned at the beginning of this podcast. It's we're I mean, we've faced every possible challenge, you know, the quickest rise of rates, you know, higher for longer long term rates, inflation. We've dealt with government shutdowns.
Greg Friedman:We've dealt with, you know, these geopolitical crises. If it's, you know, been, you know, Ukraine now, you know, The Middle East, it's been, you know, one thing after another, tariffs. There's just a lot of fatigue in the industry. And my you know, on the negative side for commercial real estate, think there's a lot of a lot of people a lot of owners have that fatigue. So they're they're probably at that stage of potentially, you know, just selling assets as they're facing these loan maturities and selling assets at probably pretty favorable pricing.
Greg Friedman:And so unfortunately, you're probably going to start seeing some losses get realized. But on the flip side, if you're, you know, new capital coming in, you're buying in at some incredible, you know, at some incredible levels where you should make, you know, be be in a position to make really good money long term.
Mark Bonner:Yeah. I mean, you're talking about the refi wall and like that's one of the biggest structural challenges in the market beyond everything else we're talking about. 1 and a half trillion dollars in CRE loans will mature over the next few years. Many of those loans originate when borrowing costs were at three to 4% Compared to financing costs today, can easily run 7% or higher depending on the asset. Hire for longer.
Mark Bonner:That conversation tomorrow with the central bank. The refi math continues to get more complicated. I mean, this aside, the Iran thing and all the other macro shocks that we've been talking about, how manageable does that wall of maturities look right now? And are you worried about that, Greg?
Greg Friedman:I think I'm probably more concerned about it today than I was, say, six weeks ago because there's a lot of there is a lot of capital out there for credit. There's less capital available for equity in commercial real estate. There's a lot of capital for credit in commercial real estate. Unfortunately, a lot of that capital available for credit in commercial real estate were with private firms. And some of these private firms have structures because, you know, private credit is a huge universe.
Greg Friedman:It's very bifurcated in how it's, you know, from one firm to another. You know, a lot of firms that play in the private credit space, the ones that are really in the news are the ones that have these evergreen vehicles that offer liquidity, and a lot of them are facing these redemption issues. And they're going to be under pressure to be able to, you know, especially if they're, you know, focused on commercial real estate, they're going be under pressure to be able to provide lending, you know, to borrowers needing capital to, you know, refinance these assets as they're facing the wall of debt maturities or even providing acquisition loans to groups that are buying assets. So this is a you know, the private credit's been a huge backstop to the economy over the last couple of years because, you know, banks just haven't been lending at the same levels that they once were lending. You know, even coming out of, you know, the pandemic really going back to the GFC, you know, banks had slowed down their lending to commercial real estate and the regional banks were already overexposed by 2x or higher, compared to the national banks.
Greg Friedman:It's just, you know, lending availability to commercial real estate could easily freeze up very quickly. And that's, you know, that is a risk in the face of this unprecedented amount of loan maturities because just to put math to it, because you talk about 1,500,000,000,000.0 maturing, a lot of that's front end loaded over the next twelve months. Over the next twelve to fifteen months, you have roughly caught about a trillion dollars of loans maturing. Historically speaking, only about four hundred to five hundred billion dollars of commercial real estate loans are maturing in a given year. So you almost have two x the normal amount, and that's because of extended and pertaining.
Greg Friedman:It goes back to the fatigue story where I do think you're going to see a very constructive environment over the next twelve months. And we're seeing it real time right now. We're buying two different portfolios of loans from regional banks. I expect that you're going see a lot more banks selling off paper as they're facing these loan maturities if the borrower's not showing the ability to be able to pay them off. Right.
Greg Friedman:And that's, you know, that is going to be another opportunity for for investors that are looking to invest into credit across commercial real estate.
Mark Bonner:Right. You keep bringing up private credit. I'm going go a little bit deeper on this. Right? I mean, the capital stack changed pretty dramatically post pandemic.
Mark Bonner:Right? Again, going back pre pandemic, greatest expansion of the economy in American history, sixteen years plus coming off the GFC o eight zero nine. You get into this pandemic situation, institutional lending begins to pull back, getting more conservative. Private capital, private credit, excuse me, has become one of the most dominant sources of financing commercial real estate in these last few years. But over the past few weeks, if you've been following the headlines, we've seen questions emerge around liquidity in that market from redemption limits to the recent Blue Owl financing drama tied to that large data center project.
Mark Bonner:If geopolitical shocks continue to push oil prices higher and keep interest rates elevated, does that start to test the private credit model the industry is increasingly relied on? What do you think is gonna happen here, Greg? Because we're hearing about cockroaches all over the place with this conversation. That's a reference to Jamie Dimon from a few months ago. Is this one cockroach, or are we about to see a whole swarm of cockroaches dominate, the financial headlines?
Greg Friedman:Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's it's great question. So I think in regards to the private credit groups that structured their products where they, you know, the the capital that they were utilizing to go make loans were utilizing these evergreen vehicles. I think they're facing and using these interval funds. I mean, potentially, they're facing a run on the bank.
Greg Friedman:It's gonna keep them very constrained on being able to, you know, play offense in this environment. They're gonna be playing defense. I think groups that have closed end vehicles, that's typically what we focus on doing on the private credit side. You know, they're probably more, or they're probably gonna be a little bit more insulated to some of the challenges that are being really mentioned on the private credit side. As Jamie Dimon says, you know, talks about cockroaches and things, I mean, that's, I think those groups like us will be a little bit insulated to those factors.
Greg Friedman:But with it all being said, it shouldn't be lost on anyone. We are in a period where you're gonna have higher default rates than we saw, say, from coming out of the great financial crisis. Because from 2010 to 2020, I mean, or 2022, really, we dealt with effectively 0% interest rates. I mean, the ten year was half, you know, averaged half of where we are today. It averaged roughly 2.2%.
Greg Friedman:And again, rates were next to zero on the short term basis. So you look at where rates were then compared to now and the factor that as loans are maturing, most people that was able to get debt five years ago never expected or even ten years ago never expected rates to be where they are today. That wasn't in their original underwriting models. And in most cases, rent growth over the last four years hasn't been as strong as most people anticipated. So you're gonna see more delinquencies and defaults just by the nature of these interest rates being higher, rent growth being not as robust as most people expect.
Greg Friedman:And that's gonna I think that is gonna be a potential head headline over the next twelve months, especially with some of these geopolitical events and other factors that are keeping, you know, long term rates and potentially even short term rates elevated more than most people anticipate. So there's I don't wanna say that this is it all comes together as private credit because private credit's really private capital. So when you said private capital, laugh because I hate the word private credit because it's at the end of the day, it's just private capital that's providing financing. And so it can at the end when you look at these structures, when it's all said and done, which is different than coming out of the great financial crisis, the GFC was so punishing to commercial real estate and to banks, because banks were regulated and and they covered so much more than just commercial real estate. But as their residential books and their commercial real estate books were under pressure, a lot of them became insolvent and it was just a ripple effect through The US economy along with the housing market and so forth.
Greg Friedman:You know, this time around, I think, you know, banks are much healthier today than ever. And so they can stomach, you know, what's you know, if we go through a prolonged period of economic uncertainty, which is causing dislocations, I think private credit lenders are probably in a better position to, you know, to stomach, you know, assets that are defaulting or becoming delinquent because in most cases, lot of these private credit or private capital groups, you know, they they understand real estate. They're probably going to be a little bit more patient in how they deal with the workouts in the asset management side. So I don't think it's necessarily I don't think it's going be a doomsday scenario, but I do think you're going to see some scenarios where you had tourists to the private credit, private capital space that may no longer exist, you know, post these events over the next, you know, assuming these events play out negatively over the next twelve months, twelve to eighteen months. And I think you'll see other organizations that are truly committed to being, you know, private credit lenders or private capital as a debt source that will continue to exist and thrive.
Greg Friedman:Because I think long term, the trend is only going to continue where banks are just unable to lend as they once did. The banking model is broken. You know, you had forty plus years ago, you had 15,000 banks. Today, you have closer to 4,000 banks. And five years from now, you're probably gonna have closer to 2,500 to 3,000 banks.
Greg Friedman:So you're gonna continue to have banking consolidation. And when banks merge, one plus one doesn't equal two. Their lending limits doesn't just double in size. Usually, it's one plus one equals, like, one and a half, and that's gonna leave a gap for private credit, private capital to continue to thrive. So, you know, private credit's not going away, but it may there may be some you may see some groups that may disappear due to some of these challenges.
Mark Bonner:I mean, if you you know, people are listening to us talk right now. They're like, why so much negativity? Such negativity. And then there's an old saying on Wall Street, Greg, that peasant pessimism will make you sound smart. Optimism will make you money.
Mark Bonner:You talk with investors constantly. First of all, let's get real. What's the mood right now, and where is the optimism in the market right now?
Greg Friedman:Yeah. So I think the optimism in the market is that, you know, effectively to the sort of the points I made earlier, it's more from a standpoint of the investment opportunity set that's in front of us, you know, like where you can you're gonna be able to buy assets because of the it's the contrarian view of what's happening right now, where you can be able to buy assets because you have a record amount of loans maturing. I think that's probably the most optimistic corner to everything that's happening. But on the other side of the equation, I mean, we have a housing shortage. There's a lack of new supply getting delivered.
Greg Friedman:You're gonna have out when you think about three years from now, because who would have expected four years ago we would be dealing with the challenges that we're dealing with right now? Like, you just don't ever it's hard to predict some of, you know, what's going to happen, but, you know, my if I had a crystal ball here right now, and unfortunately, my crystal ball, you know, shattered once the pandemic hit because I never saw that coming. But if I had a crystal ball, would expect that, you know, three to four years from now, we'll see much higher rent growth than most people expect in their models due to the lack of new commercial real estate supply. And that's across multifamily, hotels, industrial retail that will get delivered over the next three to four years, which is going to mean properties are going to way outperform. I think you're going to see once everything normalizes out, you know, expect that debt costs will probably, you know, come down some.
Greg Friedman:You'll see a much more, you know, active transaction market because there is, you know, there is a market that's pent up for, you know, for transactions to occur. So I think there's a lot of things to be optimistic about. And demand, you know, as I said earlier, these events doesn't necessarily sway the demand need. In some cases, it may delay the actual demand being fulfilled or someone actually making the decision to move forward on that, you know, office space or retail space or, you know, to go stay at a hotel. So it may delay it.
Greg Friedman:But the long term trends, I still think are very positive across, you know, all of commercial real estate. And I'm very bullish on, you know, the commercial real estate industry as a whole. And it's, you know, if you're a lender in the space today, I mean, this is a great time to be lending because there is so much dislocation that you're able to, you know, take advantage of.
Mark Bonner:So what I just wonder about is, you know, it's one bit of uncertainty after another with this administration. I don't wanna get political, but it's just uncertainty. And so that uncertainty and unpredictability is what has been shifting these markets aggressively. Right? I mean, even at this hour, you know, we've got reports coming out of The Wall Street Journal saying that the administration is taking even closer eye Cuba, right, given, their power grid, meltdown that's currently, inhabiting the island.
Mark Bonner:Right? We've heard a lot of prognosticating about whether or not The US would go in there to remove that leadership, and I don't really wanna talk about that. But how much of the optimism for the next couple of years pivots on whether or not the man sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is going to start doing things more predictably or if he continues this current playbook, which is a lot of shock and awe and surprise.
Greg Friedman:Yeah. I mean, I think that's a big part of how, you know, how everything plays out is how the the administration handles activities like the ones that you sort of mentioned just now. But I do expect I mean, at least my expectations are we're gonna continue to have volatility surrounding the direction of, you know, political activities. And like you mentioned, you know, Cuba is in discussion now. Who knows what's next gonna be in the discussion point?
Greg Friedman:And and it it could be very likely something does take place in Cuba, and that could have another factor to, you know, impact the markets, you know, in a negative way in a in a long term. You know, the Middle East conflict may be a positive outcome, but unfortunately, in the near term, it's gonna create chaos. It's going to create volatility. It's going to create dislocation. And I think what we've learned from, you know, since the new administration's taken office and what I expect the next couple of years to show is that it's just going to be very volatile and unpredictable.
Greg Friedman:And so you should be, if you're, you know, investing capital today, you should be very defensive of how you approach your investments. And you should really have a long term, because when you're investing, and especially today, you shouldn't be investing based on the next twelve to twenty four, you should be investing for the three to ten years. Like, you should have a longer term view. And so you can, you know, going back to your question what to be optimistic about, is right now you can take a view that's not going to probably resemble the current administration. There will be a new administration in office and probably have different objectives here three to four years from now, if not sooner or most likely sooner.
Greg Friedman:But the point is is at least you can start, you know, looking at the world a little bit differently, and you'll probably outperform on your investments.
Mark Bonner:Okay. That's all the time we have today. Greg, thanks so much for joining us once more. We really appreciate your time.
Greg Friedman:Yeah. No. I really appreciate you having me, Mark, and it's gonna be it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next ninety days. So, hopefully, we can catch back up here in ninety to a hundred and twenty days.
Mark Bonner:Would love to have you back. Alright. We'll be back soon with another episode of First Draft Live. You can also find today's episode and all of our past conversations on your favorite podcast app. This is First Draft Live.