256: From $15 to $100K: Afroditi’s Fashion Freelance Journey on Upwork (Part 1)

What if your first freelance project paid just $15 and took a week to complete... would you keep going? In this first episode of our two-part series, I sit down in person with Afroditi, a Greek fashion freelancer who started on Upwork with no clients and no portfolio. She opens up about landing that first $15 sketch job, the fear and uncertainty she faced, and why Upwork felt safer than anything else.

Afroditi shares the raw, unfiltered truth of her first year freelancing: her strategies, the emotional toll of working without boundaries, and the surprising reasons she didn’t give up.

Listen to this powerful story of grit and growth, especially if you’re just starting out or need a reminder that every expert was once a beginner.

Resources:
Afroditi's Upwork Profile
253: Tabitha’s First $1K Month (and Why She’s Quitting Her Day Job to Go All In on Freelancing)

About Afroditi:
Afroditi is a fashion technical designer based in Athens, Greece. She transitioned from teaching cello to fashion, and after a tough start in the industry, she built her career on Upwork (eventually crossing $100K on the platform).

Connect with Afroditi:
Follow on Instagram
Connect on LinkedIn

Download my Freelance Price List just for fashion (it’s free!): sewheidi.com/price

Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Heidi [00:00:00]:
What if your first freelance project paid just $15 and took a week to complete? Would you keep going? In this first episode of our two part series, I sit down in person with Afroditi, a Greek fashion designer who started on Upwork with no clients and no portfolio. She opens up about what it took to get her first job, how she pushed through discouragement, and why Upwork felt safer than anything else. This is the raw behind the scenes truth of building a freelance business from the ground up. You're gonna love the episode. Let's get to it. Afroditi, welcome to the podcast.

Afroditi [00:00:31]:
Thank you for inviting me. Yeah. And thank you for your patience.

Heidi [00:00:36]:
Because I've been bugging you to come on for years.

Afroditi [00:00:39]:
You did. Yeah. You did. I'm finally here.

Heidi [00:00:41]:
Thank you. In real life. In real life.

Afroditi [00:00:44]:
I'm so honored and feel so lucky that you're here and that we're doing this in person.

Heidi [00:00:50]:
Yeah. For context, I'm traveling in Greece right now, so I gotta hook up with Afroditi and do this. We're sitting in her apartment right now and it's really exciting. Okay. So where I wanna start with your journey, last year in 02/2024, you just hit the hundred thousand dollar marker on Upwork. I did. Congratulations. Thank you so much.

Heidi [00:01:12]:
Is that, like, a milestone you ever could have imagined hitting, like, maybe way back when you started your freelance business? Not at all.

Afroditi [00:01:20]:
Yeah. I wouldn't be able to imagine this number or a much lower one. I didn't know it was possible. Didn't know it was actually possible to make a living out of it, not hit that mark. So, yeah, it was a big a big milestone for me.

Heidi [00:01:37]:
Yeah. Well, congratulations. It's very well deserved. I First, let's talk about, like, you've been on Upwork for a while. Your first project was in 2019 for $15.

Afroditi [00:01:50]:
Exactly. And I should mention, this project took about a week to complete. Okay. So

Heidi [00:01:57]:
$15.

Afroditi [00:01:58]:
Not a small project. Okay.

Heidi [00:02:01]:
So I wanna we have so much I wanna talk about and I wanna talk about like your whole journey up to from $15 to your hundred thousand dollar milestone, as well as where you started in fashion and in your career before Upwork. But first, I think it would be really valuable for people listening to hear, like, how did you build up to that hundred thousand dollars? Like, what do you think I think first, like, if you could just, in a really quick gratification way, give someone, like, three tips for Upwork, and then we can dig in really deep and go into some nuances of of how you built up to that.

Afroditi [00:02:37]:
Okay. Number one, really read the Upwork policies because it is its own universe. And in order for it to to work for someone, you really need to understand it.

Heidi [00:02:52]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:02:53]:
Number two, just deliver really good work. That's, I think, a rule for everything. And number three, you need some strategies, freelance specific ones, that we can maybe talk about later. So like writing a good pitch k. Or pricing correctly, stuff like that.

Heidi [00:03:15]:
Okay. Well, let's talk about some of those. Perfect. So, I mean, I imagine some of your profile also plays into that, like how you have your profile set up. Yeah. I guess if you looked at profile versus cover letter versus pricing, how would you put those in order of importance? And then we can talk about each one.

Afroditi [00:03:39]:
Okay. So, again, this is unique to Upwork. Your profile actually beats in time. So the number one thing that stands out on my profile right now is my badge. And the thing is that when you start your Upwork journey, you will start without a badge. You will start without a job history. You have your own history. You have your own experiences, but that doesn't really translate into Upwork.

Afroditi [00:04:02]:
You have the opportunity to explain all those things in your bio. Yeah. But apart from that, there is the platform specific job history that appears underneath your profile, your reviews, whatever badges or awards you have from the platform. So that is the first thing that someone would probably notice. And this is something that it actually builds on time. So you cannot really do many of those things when you start, but, again, I have some tips on on how to navigate this. When you build your Upwork profile, the best way to go about it is try to complete it as fully as possible.

Heidi [00:04:44]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:04:44]:
And there are actually four or five, parts on it. Number one is your title.

Heidi [00:04:49]:
K.

Afroditi [00:04:50]:
So it helps to do some research on what keywords someone would look for. Something to keep in mind for a person who wants to specifically freelance in fashion is that, at least according to my experience, the most people who would go into Upwork to hire a freelancer are startups. Okay. So what will the startup brand, look for in search or in keywords? It took me some time to figure that out myself. And that's how, actually, I ended up doing tech packs because this is a really valuable thing for a start up, and they probably heard the terms somewhere somewhere. Okay. They didn't know how to find it, and they go into Upwork and they search tech pack. Okay.

Afroditi [00:05:41]:
This applies to other, other niches probably. So your app your Upwork title should reflect that. Okay. Then there is your bio. And what I'm going to say is there's no way to write a good bio when you start with. So I'm going to echo some of your tips. Start with the best thing that you can Uh-huh. And feel ready to update it very, very often.

Afroditi [00:06:07]:
I I did so many tests with mine. I keep updating it. It's not it's never perfect. So I would say do it as well as possible to start with. Yeah. Then there is a portfolio section. K. And, yeah, that's a little bit underneath.

Heidi [00:06:24]:
Yeah. We have your profile filled up. So I just wanna read here your title is expert fashion technical designer slash tech pack specialist.

Afroditi [00:06:31]:
Exactly. All the keywords.

Heidi [00:06:32]:
Yeah. And then we'll, we'll put your bio in the show notes. So if you guys wanna see the bio, you can look there, and then we're just scrolling down to the portfolio. Okay. So talk to me

Afroditi [00:06:43]:
a little bit about this. Okay. So, again, it took some time to build my portfolio. Now I have a niche. I didn't always have one when I started. I was actually using Apple to earn some experience, so I didn't have any any projects that were professional to show off. I started with personal projects Mhmm. That were also design projects.

Afroditi [00:07:10]:
Okay. I didn't start with tech packs. But right now, my portfolio consists mainly of what I actually do, tech pack projects. Yeah. I have tech pack samples in there and development, projects. My other ones are still maybe, design projects, but, no one will navigate on the last page to show the way that Upwork displays your portfolio. It's on pages. So I would say if you start with four projects, that's one page and the second one, so you have two pages of of projects

Heidi [00:07:42]:
on your

Afroditi [00:07:43]:
portfolio. And that looks enough to me. I I didn't even have a third or a fourth page for years.

Heidi [00:07:50]:
Okay. So four projects means there's three on the first page, and then that gives you one more on

Afroditi [00:07:55]:
the next page. That's a personal tip. I don't know if it works. It makes them look a lot while there are not so many. Yeah. And, honestly, your portfolio is not even the most important thing because you also have the option to to send the portfolio with your application. So if you have something extra that you would like to, add to that, you can add it to your application. It doesn't have to to be, like, displayed on on your profile.

Afroditi [00:08:26]:
Yeah. Then after the portfolio, there are some keywords. One thing that's really important is the verification process. Verification. Yeah. Apple has a verification process, and it it makes sense that it does. So it it's not required to complete this. I think it's not required to complete this fully when you originally sign up.

Afroditi [00:08:52]:
Okay. But if you actually do it, and you complete your portfolio and your bio and your title, and there's this job history underneath Okay. Right. So you can input the below that. Yeah.

Heidi [00:09:05]:
Oh, I see your employment history, which is definitely done. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that stuff off of Upwork that you've done.

Afroditi [00:09:12]:
Exactly. Right. So if you take the time, the first time that you set up your profile, take the extra effort and fill all those section in, Upwork might actually award you a badge that is called rising talent. And they do that through the algorithm. So if you take the time to fill everything and and do the verification, I'm I'm almost sure that you will get this this badge. And like I said, Apple has a tone system, and badges is a way to showcase it. So when you originally start, you don't have any work experience inside the platform, and Upwork are awarding you this badge. It's a nice way to, like, promote you a little bit.

Afroditi [00:09:58]:
Yeah. Instead of zero, you have, like, your Horizon talent. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Approved. Yeah. So, yeah, that was my that were my main tips on how to set up Okay.

Afroditi [00:10:09]:
A profile.

Heidi [00:10:09]:
The profile. Okay. And so when you first got started, you filled out the profile to the to the best of your knowledge and strategy at that time. Exactly. And you got your first job for $15. It took you a week. Did you bid for

Afroditi [00:10:24]:
that job? Yes. So, the first Upwork project is by far the most difficult one to land. Yeah. And I actually like to give some rough timelines because one of the hardest thing when someone asks, when someone starts working on Upwork is the disappointment. So I think most freelancers fail because they send out a few biddings bids, and they don't get a reply. So I was lucky enough. When I started, I actually had a close friend who knew the platform and guided me, and he gave me some timelines as well so I knew what to expect. And this made a whole difference.

Afroditi [00:11:12]:
So in my experience, it might require around three months of constant applying and bidding to get a reply. Okay. So that's a long time. Yeah. Again, I didn't have so many tips when I started. So maybe this time can be really shortened out if you have the tips, but it's not unusual to take this long. And if you keep pushing and if you get your first job and then your second job, it's much easier after that. Okay.

Afroditi [00:11:45]:
So, yeah, first job, the hardest one by far, the land. The first reply even to pitch Yeah. Because we are competing with a huge pool of other freelancers, and they have this huge histories inside the platform. So it's not the fastest way to start.

Heidi [00:12:01]:
Yeah. You said earlier before we were recording, we chatted so much Yeah. And hopefully, we'll fit some of that into this conversation. But, Upwork felt like a very safe place for you. You said slow but safe. Talk a little bit about that, like, mindset.

Afroditi [00:12:19]:
Okay. That that's a great question. So when I started, I didn't have any knowledge on start strategies, but I also felt that I didn't have experience. So the idea of me being exposed to a big industry outside of my country, and that's also an important part of my journey, so in a different language, bigger clients, anything. So do cold pitching and contracts and stuff like that felt really scary in my mind.

Heidi [00:12:51]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:12:52]:
So Upwork can take some of this fear away. I think that is the benefit of a platform. Other than that, it's not faster, and it does have its own difficulty. So I wouldn't call it easy either. Mhmm. But in some way, you feel that there's a pool of availability, and their platform is there to help you with contracts and payments and all those things that can cause someone to feel like I'm exposed in something so much bigger than me. That's how, I used Upwork at least. But, yeah, my first post is $15.

Heidi [00:13:33]:
But here you are. I mean, we talked about this a little bit earlier. So, like, you first started out charging less than $20 an hour. Yes. Sounds like even maybe less than that if it took you a whole week to do the first fifteen dollar project. Yeah.

Afroditi [00:13:50]:
I also underestimated the time I needed to complete the test. Yeah. Again, number one mistake. I should have started with an hourly rate, but I gave fixed pricing Okay. For a quick job that turned, you know, whole week. Yeah. And I repeated that mistake for a year Okay. Every time.

Heidi [00:14:09]:
Yeah. So Okay. So you were doing flat rate for the first year just trying to figure out the timing and stuff?

Afroditi [00:14:19]:
Yeah. So the reason I did the flat rate was not, was half. That's an interesting reply, I think. So the reason I did flat rate was because I wasn't focused on how long it takes me to complete a task Okay. But what the client expected to pay for it.

Heidi [00:14:39]:
Oh, interesting. So I

Afroditi [00:14:42]:
was trying to charge per expectation rather than rather than, per worth or per work.

Heidi [00:14:51]:
So, like, what did what did you do for $15? Do you remember?

Afroditi [00:14:54]:
I did a sketch. A flat sketch? Yeah. But it got revised a thousand times.

Heidi [00:14:59]:
By the client? Yeah.

Afroditi [00:15:01]:
So that's why I did the sketch and I kept revising it for a full week. I couldn't push back. Okay. Something something that affects the mindset on Upwork specifically is that you are kind of held hostage by the app platform's rating. And when you get a difficult client, it's even harder to say no or to push back, especially when you don't have experience Mhmm. Because this can lead to a bad review. Mhmm. I only recently moved away from the platform and starting doing projects outside of it, and I cannot even explain how much less stressed I was Wow.

Afroditi [00:15:44]:
And how easier it was for me to push back on so many things that I wouldn't do on Upwork just because I fear the rating.

Heidi [00:15:53]:
Wow. I've interviewed so many people around Upwork, and I've never had somebody say that, but it feels so real to me now that you point it

Afroditi [00:16:05]:
out. It's true. Oh, nice job. When your first project so Upwork actually changed its policy recently. When I started, it took a while to get a rating. So you start at zero rating. Yeah. No rating.

Afroditi [00:16:19]:
Not zero. No rating. Yeah. The rating on Apple, it's called, job success score, I think. Yeah. And it appears on the top of your profile.

Heidi [00:16:31]:
Yeah. Right there at the job success.

Afroditi [00:16:33]:
Yeah. I got it. Job success cost. So I kept mine on % most of the time. But when you used to start, it required five projects to get your first rating. I think they changed that now. I think now you get your rating for for your first project, which is also, I think, a bit more unfair actually. Yes.

Afroditi [00:16:57]:
Your your job success score appears faster, But if you get a bad review for your first project, you're kind of almost doomed. Yeah. It's really bad to recover from that. Yeah. And I when I started, you require you needed five projects to get your first score. And I think they were all of equal of equal they they counted equally.

Heidi [00:17:24]:
Equal weight. Yeah. Equal weight. Yeah. Exactly.

Afroditi [00:17:27]:
Now this has changed as well. So a higher project with higher earnings Okay. Will result more in your job success score. And also there are other factors that play a role in it. Like, if you have a rehire okay. If a client gets back to hire me again for a second project, this also affects Musco, it shows loyalty

Heidi [00:17:47]:
I see.

Afroditi [00:17:47]:
And stuff like that.

Heidi [00:17:48]:
So the up

Afroditi [00:17:49]:
call miss the up call algorithm is a mystery.

Heidi [00:17:52]:
Yeah. Totally. Okay. So your bidding and bidding and bidding takes a while to get that first reply or that first project but then on some level that's a little bit of a domino. For your first year you were charging based off of expectation from the client and not managing the revisions or anything because you were terrified of saying no or standing up for yourself because God forbid you get a bad review.

Afroditi [00:18:23]:
Yes. It

Heidi [00:18:24]:
tanks your whole profile, like, can kill your business.

Afroditi [00:18:26]:
Exactly. That sounds like

Heidi [00:18:27]:
God, it is like being hostage. Oh, this is wild to me.

Afroditi [00:18:32]:
Okay. And then and, actually, during that first year on Upwork Yeah. I had a meltdown.

Heidi [00:18:37]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:18:38]:
And I needed help to get through it. It was really, really hard, in terms of mental health. Yeah. I couldn't deal with that stress and that anxiety. And that's partially why after I made it into Upwork, I felt too safe to get out of it and restart my business without the platform

Heidi [00:19:02]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:19:02]:
Because of all that mental struggle that went into that first year.

Heidi [00:19:08]:
Yeah. Was there, like, a tipping point that caused that meltdown, or was it just, like, compounding everything? Everything. Everything. And you just reached a breaking point?

Afroditi [00:19:18]:
Yeah. I was feeling really exposed.

Heidi [00:19:20]:
Yeah. I didn't

Afroditi [00:19:21]:
know any other person other than my friend who was really familiar with the platform and really helped me. I cannot stress that enough Yeah. How much help I got. But he was not in our industry. Yeah. So he didn't know the specifics. Yeah. So I I I felt that I didn't have anyone to consult about the tiny questions that I have was having.

Afroditi [00:19:43]:
Yeah. I didn't have a community yet. I didn't have any so that was before COVID. That was before the pandemic.

Heidi [00:19:50]:
Yeah. Because this was October 19.

Afroditi [00:19:52]:
Exactly. It's actually the pandemic that, my business took off. Okay. Many startup brands joined the platform during that time. Yeah. But what I I'm trying the point I'm trying to make is that there was a shift after the pandemic. So many people started freelancing. And with that came all the coaching programs and your program and all those, resources out there, things that I didn't have when I started.

Afroditi [00:20:26]:
And I didn't know anyone else Mhmm. Who did something similar, especially in my country. Mhmm. So they put this put some extra burden mentally.

Heidi [00:20:37]:
Yeah. It's a lot of weight. Yeah. So you're in Greece. You live in Athens. Yeah. And have you worked with any brands in your country or has it all been international?

Afroditi [00:20:49]:
I've only worked, I mean, before I started freelancing, I I I worked a little in house Okay.

Heidi [00:20:57]:
But

Afroditi [00:20:57]:
just a little bit. And I've also worked, not as a designer, as a technician. Okay. Again, I worked on Greek, opera. And then after I started freelancing, the only collaboration that I had in Greece was the school that I was teaching at. Okay. And that's the only one I kept. K.

Afroditi [00:21:22]:
But other than that, no Greek brands.

Heidi [00:21:25]:
So basically, most of your freelance clients have been international? All of them. Okay.

Afroditi [00:21:29]:
All of them.

Heidi [00:21:30]:
And I want to point that out because I hear so many people say, well I can't freelance because I live in this country and there's no fashion brands, there's no opportunity, there's no industry. Yet, I feel like pretty much almost everyone that I interview, with the exception of some larger markets, like in The US people do tend to work with brands in The US but they also work internationally. But anyone who I interview who lives in an air quote non fashion country, you wind up finding clients all over the world. And it doesn't I mean, I shouldn't say your location doesn't matter, but do you come up against resistance with your location with any clients?

Afroditi [00:22:13]:
I do face difficulties. Okay. How about that? I won't deny it, but, I'm going to say that that's actually the whole point. So the only reason I wanted to freelance was for me to get out of the of the necessity to work locally because this didn't make sense financially for me. So Greece is a low cost country. Yeah. Salaries are are low. I don't know if we can, talk about any numbers.

Heidi [00:22:42]:
If you wanna share, that would be great.

Afroditi [00:22:44]:
So I'll I'll say this with a a grain of salt because I'm not really in the industry, so maybe, the numbers are a little off. But at least when I started, the expected salary, of a designer would be around €800, maybe a thousand, maybe 1,200, but those were the numbers per month, that is.

Heidi [00:23:08]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:23:10]:
And I felt that the this is a very restrictive number

Heidi [00:23:16]:
Yeah.

Afroditi [00:23:17]:
To live on. So I kind of thought that freelancing is my way out of it. So when I discovered you, your resources, your podcast, your everything you had at the time because it was quite a while ago. Yeah. I felt that this was the bridge between where I was and and where I could be. Yeah. My way out. So I started freelancer with the intent to work with brands outside of Greece Okay.

Afroditi [00:23:54]:
Specifically. Yeah. And the the challenges that I face mostly have to do with me reviewing samples from

Heidi [00:24:04]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:24:06]:
The actual sample. So because we have shipping Yeah. All options. But this always complicates things a little bit, especially if something is if a brand is outside of Europe, specifically with the duties.

Heidi [00:24:20]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:24:22]:
This is my my main challenge.

Heidi [00:24:25]:
So what do you do? I

Afroditi [00:24:29]:
okay. Great question. I haven't fully resolved that yet. I've tried to skip reviewing samples. I've tried, asking for them to be shipped to me Mhmm. And then shipping them back. Mhmm. And an option I'm also exploring now is having collaborations with someone that could take this part of the work of my hands, someone who would be local to the brand, for example, and who could help me do some of the evaluation parts, and then I can take it over from there again.

Heidi [00:25:06]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:25:07]:
I have I didn't have any better solutions so far. Yeah. I'm still looking for it.

Heidi [00:25:11]:
That's a cool idea. How are you building out that network of freelancers that are located in all these different places?

Afroditi [00:25:16]:
I'm using your community after so many years being hidden and not knowing who I was, I've started building a network. Yeah. I was so stupid.

Heidi [00:25:28]:
It's okay. Let's talk about that for a minute. You you and I have always communicated behind the scenes. We've emailed a lot over the years. You just reminded me that I denied you one of the spots in my beta program when I first launched Fast back in, I think it was '18 or '19. Yeah. And you applied, and I said no.

Afroditi [00:25:50]:
You did. Yes. Tell the tell the story real quick. Yeah. So like I said, this was my dream. You were the reason that I realized that this thing exists, that I can actually freelance. Okay. But I had no idea how to do it.

Afroditi [00:26:05]:
And, again, it was back then, the knowledge was not so much available. Mhmm. I took all your courses. So I have the skills like an illustrator and everything. And since I was following you, you started advertising this beta thing, the the trial Yeah. Group. So when I saw that, I wanted in so bad. I said, this is what I was waiting for.

Afroditi [00:26:33]:
I applied instantly, but at that point, I was still working, as a technician and I wanted to break into design. I wanted to to not do things with my hands because this would be much more complex to navigate through a distance for a brand.

Heidi [00:26:55]:
Mhmm. I

Afroditi [00:26:56]:
didn't want to do pattern making or selling samples. I thought it would be more complex. I I wanted to do something digital Okay. Because it would give me the tools. So I wanted to turn into design, but I didn't have the relevant experience yet. So I applied for this program, which I wanted to I thought it was my the my answer to everything. And you rejected me because you only I think you had the spot how many spots, 20 or?

Heidi [00:27:24]:
I don't even know if I did 20. I think I want, I wanna say I did like 12 or 15.

Afroditi [00:27:28]:
Okay. Okay.

Heidi [00:27:29]:
Yeah. So this was, like for context people listening, I think some people may could, this was before I had like launched fast and I was like, I need to take a small group of students through this and make sure I can get results for them and then I can turn it into a course and start selling it. So I was bringing in a small group of beta students and I didn't remember rejecting you until this morning before we hit record. You said you remember you rejected me. Okay. So I rejected you.

Afroditi [00:28:01]:
Keep talking to me. Yeah. But I was like feeling quite comfortable with you and I know it's crazy because I knew who you were. You didn't know who I was. Yeah. But I've been following you so for so many years. So I decided to get out of my, like, introvert bubble and write back to you. Yeah.

Afroditi [00:28:18]:
And I realized to you, hey, Heidi. I know you rejected me. Would you be open to giving some constructive feedback on why, so maybe I can work on it and maybe, I don't know, reapply? Yeah. And you said, yes. Of course. I'm I'm happy to do that. And, you said, so the reason I rejected you is because you don't have much experience, much working experience, and I feel like you will need some to start freelancing. And then I wrote back to you, and I said, I understand.

Afroditi [00:28:54]:
Yes. I I know, but it's so hard for me to gain this experience living where I live. There's so little job opportunities, and I cannot get one. Do you have any tips on how I can actually gain the experience without without starting somewhere? I said, yeah. I can actually I will answer this question through my podcast. And you did, and you said, maybe you can try artwork. Here we are,

Heidi [00:29:24]:
a hundred thousand dollars later.

Afroditi [00:29:28]:
So I took your advice, and then I remember that book that you released Yeah. The freelancer The Ultimate Guide to

Heidi [00:29:40]:
Identity. Yeah.

Afroditi [00:29:42]:
So I memorized that book. Yeah. So every tip in there % gold. Yeah. Started with Upwork, followed your advice, and I started getting better. Yeah. And then when you released the course, I won in the first day, but the thing is when I did, I had already landed some big projects. I really it was one year.

Afroditi [00:30:07]:
I don't know how long it was. It was it was a year of constant improving. Yeah. So I had mastered so many of the techniques and the book, of course, helped. Yeah. So, yeah, I went into the program, but I didn't really go through all of it Yeah. Until this year.

Heidi [00:30:27]:
Okay. So we'll talk about that because I wanna hear, where you're at right now. Plot twist, guys. Listen in for a plot twist here. Before we get to that though, I think there's two things I still wanna dig into a little bit deeper. One is your backstory before you started on Upwork because now, like, I I know you said you had no experience, but I do think you had a little bit more experience than maybe you were giving yourself credit for on paper.

Afroditi [00:30:53]:
Yeah. That's true.

Heidi [00:30:55]:
And second, I do wanna pull a few more Upwork tips out of you because I we talked about the profile. I think you gave some really good tips on that. We we I know you started your pricing at $15 for a week long project, and now you're at $70 an hour. Yep. You've slowly increased over time to like 20 an hour, 30, 40 5, 50, whatever the numbers. So I wanna talk a little bit about pricing and your mindset around that. And then I also wanna talk about, proposals because I think or or the pitch, the cover letter, I think is as it's called on Upwork. Right? Because I think that is arguably the cover letter arguably is your first foot in the door, and so there's so much importance on that.

Heidi [00:31:44]:
Okay. So I think maybe let's let's talk about, the cover letter and then your mindset around pricing, and then we can share your backstory. Mhmm. And then we can talk about where you're at today. Perfect. So price so let's talk about pricing first and your mindset around that and, like, what advice maybe would you give to people who maybe are just starting or who feel like, you know, maybe they're just getting cheap clients or I don't know.

Afroditi [00:32:09]:
Okay. So, first thing to acknowledge is that Upwork does have a lot of, cheap clients Mhmm. To the extent that some job listings are funny.

Heidi [00:32:22]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:32:23]:
And I, I might actually go through the feed. So it has this page called the feed with all the job listings that are relevant to your shirts. And I go through that daily. And there are days where there's not a single serious one in there. Mhmm. And this can actually affect you because if you, go through that every day and you read those listings and you read what a client is expect expects to pay. So I want 15 designs, and the budget is $50, and I'm not I'm not, like, making this out of my mind. Those those numbers actually exist in Upwork.

Afroditi [00:33:06]:
And if you see that daily, you get an idea of, okay, the this is how how much a tech cost.

Heidi [00:33:14]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:33:14]:
And if you don't have any strategy behind that, you it will affect you because even if you do land a project like this, it's not you're not making a living out of it. It. Mhmm. But what I, what I can say is that there are other types of clients on Upwork as well. Not not many. So, your profile and your strategy and your pitching and your cover letter letter letters should be structured in a way to to speak to those clients Mhmm. To to, in a way, magnify them. Attract.

Afroditi [00:33:52]:
Attract. Exactly. Attract them. And the first way to do that is to change your hourly rate to the biggest number. So, again, I will echo you. It has to be to feel really uncomfortable. Mhmm. And when you're applying for a project, you can actually individually set the pricing for this specific project.

Afroditi [00:34:13]:
Okay. So whatever my profile says, I can apply with a different number or I can give them a project price. I can do whatever I want. So, basically, the number that I pierce on my profile does only one thing. It just gives the client an expectation of Okay. Of my worth. Okay. That's the only thing that this number does.

Afroditi [00:34:35]:
Okay. So when I apply for the project, I will input a separate, pricing structure. Do you usually do hourly or project? Okay. Great great question. I do hourly k. But there's a reason for that. Like I said, Upwork attracts startup brands. Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:34:57]:
And again, maybe that's maybe it's just me, but I haven't been able to find brands on Upwork yet that are not startups. Okay. Maybe there are some Mhmm. I haven't been able to find them. Mhmm. And there is something unique in working with startups, all the hand holding and all the device they need. So I am expected to educate them. Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:35:23]:
There's so much back and forth at the beginning and so much explaining and so much reshaping that if I give a fixed price, I know I'll land the charts. There's no way for me to be flexible, and I will actually end up pushing back so so much that I will not end up helping them. Okay. Because the what they actually need is some someone to navigate this together. And this is actually a tip that I would give. I know that many Upwork job listings don't include a lot of information.

Heidi [00:35:56]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:35:56]:
There might be, just one sentence. Like, you need someone to, like, do a tech box Mhmm. Or a tech box for this, this, this, and that. And since our cover letters should be for the brand and speak to the brand, one question that I hear a lot in the in your community is, how am I supposed to make this brand special if I know nothing about this project and I have a quick reply to that one?

Heidi [00:36:25]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:36:25]:
I am assuming that this is a start up when I write my pitch to them. Mhmm. So the wording I the wording I pick and how I refer to them and the reasoning behind everything I I I including that cover letter is that I'm talking to someone who needs help in actually navigating this together. Mhmm. So assuming that they are a start up and speaking to them like is yeah. I might I might I might be out. I I might be wrong, but so far, my assumption is usually % correct. They feel whenever they read my cover letter, they feel that I can actually help them in more than just the tech park or just the technical sketches or whatever it is that their job listing is about.

Heidi [00:37:15]:
So for example, I mean I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit. Like for example, I'm I wrote my Upwork post. I said, I need someone to help me with a tech pack for my streetwear brand. Okay. K. Give me your pitch me.

Afroditi [00:37:32]:
Great. Okay. So I'll say I'll I will be happy to help. I should mention that I'm so excited about streetwear because this is one of the favorite areas to work with, And I've actually helped so many startup brands. Sometimes I start working with brands where they're only at the I have an idea stage, and we navigate together the difficulty of building it from scratch. And I can mention a few brands I have helped build, and I understand that sometimes it's so difficult to work with someone who just starts so this I just assume sometimes that on the first step, and it's so hard to find designers to support you at your first steps. But I'm actually so excited to do that. I might also mention that I have a ditch a teaching background among others.

Afroditi [00:38:26]:
And I'm always so excited to, to listen to your story. Would you like to arrange a discovery call? Because I always like to discuss projects deeply regardless of whether I end up taking them. Let me know if you'd like to arrange a call, and we can move from there. This is gold.

Heidi [00:38:50]:
Thank you. And you did it live on the spot,

Afroditi [00:38:53]:
on the fly during the podcast. Well, better wording than this obviously, but the idea is is that.

Heidi [00:38:59]:
The idea, I mean, beautiful. Like, I put myself in the shoes of a startup. I felt so seen and heard and taken care of and supported that like I was in good hands versus a pitch or a cover letter of like, oh, I can help you with your tech pack and this wow.

Afroditi [00:39:20]:
So good. So good. I basically took your strategy. Yeah. But again, like I said, it's this part of Upwork that is unique. So I know that this will be a startup.

Heidi [00:39:31]:
Yeah. No, this is a nuance I've never heard anybody talk about before. I've never even thought about this nuance. So this is brilliant. Brand new advice, guys, here. Brand new advice. Okay. So the pricing, I think the hourly pricing is super smart considering the context of the projects.

Heidi [00:39:51]:
The pitch and the cover letter, brilliant. I imagine you have a pretty decent success rate getting discovery calls off of that.

Afroditi [00:39:57]:
I do. Yeah. I do. Yeah. I also have a good success score in getting projects after the discovery calls. So if you, if I actually get on a discovery call, I have my my chances of getting the project are, like, very, very high.

Heidi [00:40:14]:
Like, what? 80% or

Afroditi [00:40:16]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:40:16]:
Okay. Quite high.

Afroditi [00:40:18]:
Very yeah.

Heidi [00:40:18]:
Okay. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, maybe we'll have to do another podcast where we talk about their discovery call strategies.

Afroditi [00:40:25]:
Oh, my god.

Heidi [00:40:26]:
Yeah. Okay. So I think the cover letter is brilliant, and the pricing Talk to me about why you think go with the highest price that you're feeling really uncomfortable about versus $30 an hour or something in comparison to your current 70.

Afroditi [00:40:43]:
Okay. So a little bit of transparency. 70 is my listed price. I haven't got a project on that price yet. Okay. The highest one I have is 65 Okay. Per hour. But every time as I get a new project or a couple, and I confirm in myself that I can get this project at this pricing, I'm not feeling uncomfortable anymore with the pricing.

Afroditi [00:41:08]:
So that's why I increase it because you said it has to feel uncomfortable. So it keeps going higher. I don't know where I don't know if it's going to stop at some point. But, yeah, the 70 is the the the part the the number that's that now makes me feel uncomfortable. Okay. So, yeah, what was the question again? Sorry.

Heidi [00:41:28]:
I guess just I think you answered it. Okay. Like why you have a price that makes you feel uncomfortable, you're just continuing to push your boundaries. I always say with with sales, which as a freelancer you're in sales to some extent, you should be hearing no. You should be hearing kickback on your price. And if you're not, then your price is too low. Like, you I've heard sales experts before say that, like, you should be getting 40% of like, if you're closing 80 or 90% of your discovery calls and the pricing never comes up as an issue, like your price is too low, you should have like 30 to 40% kickback because of your price. Then you know, like, okay, I'm kind of in a sweet spot.

Heidi [00:42:08]:
And yes, you'll get fewer clients, but you'll be making more money with the 60 or 70% that do say yes, that it'll offset that. Mhmm. And you just start I mean, maybe you've experienced this, higher quality clients at a higher price. Exactly.

Afroditi [00:42:25]:
I think this is the main reason that, I changed my mind set through the price in the pricing. And, I'm actually now at that spot where Upwork has almost stopped working for me, and we will discuss this Yeah. Later. Yeah. But I think this might be partially because of my pricing, which I'm okay with it because the when I was on the lowest the lower pricing, including the fact that Upwork mostly attracts start ups

Heidi [00:42:53]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:42:54]:
This led to failed projects because even if I get paid for a project, it reflects the brand's mindset on pricing and their budgets. So if they cannot pay for my work or for a higher number, how are they going to launch a brand?

Heidi [00:43:10]:
Mhmm.

Afroditi [00:43:11]:
And after a few years working on Upwork, I don't feel very proud having worked with startup brands that failed. Mhmm. And that's a reality, unfortunately. So, again, my pricing also reflects that.

Heidi [00:43:25]:
Yeah. When you say they failed, meaning they never even got to launch.

Afroditi [00:43:28]:
Oh, they lost one collection and then and then, didn't make the profit that, you know, they were expecting, and they had to stop. Or, yeah, they didn't launch at all. Okay. Or they they face some kind of really, unexpected budget. Yeah. It it costs a lot a lot of money.

Heidi [00:43:47]:
It's a lot.

Afroditi [00:43:48]:
It's a lot. Yeah. And most people are unrealistic, and Upwork included. Yeah. So this kind of limits the client pool to the ones that may actually succeed. And there are so few that, of course, this affects this affects the amount of clients that will, will work with me eventually.

Heidi [00:44:11]:
For sure. For sure. Okay. So I love pushing the boundaries on the price. Let's talk one thing I wanna clarify too, this is kind of out of the blue, but I wanna clarify for you to have gotten to where you're at, the hundred thousand dollar marker, you have not ever worked forty hours a week as a freelancer. No. I don't. Like roughly on average, what do you think you do each week over the last few years?

Afroditi [00:44:37]:
So my sweet spot is the twenty hours per week. K. And I like to split it in morning and afternoon because I detect parts and I have to protect my clarity. Mhmm. So this is something that I do on purpose both for myself as well for my clients. I deliver better quality work if I keep this to twenty up to twenty hours per week. Those are billable hours. And I have to admit that I do more work, which is not billable because I keep thinking about it.

Afroditi [00:45:10]:
Mhmm. And I might communicate with someone. Mhmm. I also have a policy. I get on calls and I do not charge for them.

Heidi [00:45:18]:
Oh, a policy. That is a policy. Or I mean, is this in the proposal, like the contract? Like, you get free calls?

Afroditi [00:45:27]:
Kind of. Yeah. Oh,

Heidi [00:45:29]:
why do you do this?

Afroditi [00:45:30]:
I know. It sounds crazy. I know. It sounds crazy. I don't know if I'm going to change it. I might. I'm considering it. But the reason I do it is that, like I said, most of them most of the brands are start ups, and they if they want if they have to pay for asking questions that they think are stupid, they won't arrange a call with you.

Afroditi [00:45:53]:
So they'll make so many mistakes. They'll make your heart your life so difficult. They'll I don't know what they'll do. So if they keep giving me work weekly and we keep working on the brand, I'm happy to do an hour one hour call. Okay. To just let you ask me any question you want, and I'll explain because I'll be here for you. Okay. And we can do this together.

Afroditi [00:46:17]:
And you won't have this constant fear that what is the is it going to charge me for this?

Heidi [00:46:21]:
Yeah. And you never feel like that gets the project and your compensation out of whack?

Afroditi [00:46:31]:
I I weigh I weigh the benefits versus the, yeah, versus the disadvantages. The more support I give them, the better they'll do, the more work they'll give me back, and more the the better reviews. Okay. If you see my reviews, this is this is what they're saying. Afrobeat is there for us.

Heidi [00:46:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But you never feel like, gosh, you wind up doing 50 calls.

Afroditi [00:47:01]:
I don't do 50 calls.

Heidi [00:47:02]:
Okay. Right. So it just it never gets too out of balance. No. It doesn't.

Afroditi [00:47:05]:
It doesn't. Because they they respect it. Okay. You know, they they respect it.

Heidi [00:47:08]:
Okay.

Afroditi [00:47:09]:
I had amazing clients.

Heidi [00:47:10]:
Okay. Which I think to some extent is what's been built off of the price point.