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Welcome to In-Orbit, the fortnightly podcast exploring how technology from space is empowering a better world.
[00:00:04] Dallas: Hello and welcome to Outer Orbit. This is one of our little short bonus episodes that we're going to be continuing the conversation from our longer episode. We've managed to hijack, Simone Hartless, who is the Head of Capabilities and Clusters at the Satellite Applications Catapult.
She tried to get away to the cafe, but we've prevented her in order to expand our conversation a little bit. Thank you for sticking around. Simone, I appreciate it.
We talked a little bit about CCNs in the main episodes, which I still can't pronounce. Connected Capability Network.
Why is that so hard for me to say? I can't.
[00:00:37] Simone: It is a bit of a tongue twister, but they do pass the ronseal test of they connect different stakeholder groups with different capabilities. So that's industry, academia, and infrastructure as a network.
[00:00:51] Dallas: Of those other kind of words that gets chucked about when we talk about space is ecosystem.
What do we mean by space ecosystem for where you are sitting
[00:01:00] Simone: So the same way as a kind of biological ecosystem, you can't have an environment that thrives if it doesn't have all the component parts working together. So each part plays its own role in the UK space ecosystem. So that's the researchers and academics and universities. Looking at really cool research and development in space data and technology. It's the local and national government players that can support some of those activities, and then it's industry. So businesses on the ground, SMEs, startups, and those big Primes. All working together essentially to create new innovations that, bring products and services using space data and tech.
[00:01:38] Dallas: SMEs and Primes. There's two other words that kind of get thrown around a bit. What do we mean by Primes?
[00:01:43] Simone: So you've got your small companies and then you've got your large companies that, deliver key bits of kit and equipment and lead missions. So they develop satellites for instance and so small companies would perhaps deliver a component for a satellite that a Prime would ultimately put together and they would be the lead on that.
Okay. That makes sense. What's the state of health of the UK space ecosystem. Are we ingood shape? So the Satellite Applications Catapult started bringing together the UK space ecosystem over 10 years ago. So first we focused on place knowing that this local strengths that use space, technology and data across the whole of the UK and outside Harwell where we are today.
We developed something called Centres of Excellence, where we bring together local strengths using space data, and then now we've matured that ecosystem to then focus on these connected capability networks. And over that last 10 year period, we've seen from the size and health survey thatthe growth in employment of space jobs outside the greater Southeast and London has increased by 7%. So it's not just people in Scotland andthe Southeast working on space, but the Northeast of England, Wales, the Midlands people are doing space jobs right down the corner from you.
[00:02:59] Dallas: People always complain about all the jobs are in the Southeast, but certainly the space sector, it does seem to be very kind of spread out.The other word that we hear a lot of is cluster. Let's just talk about clusters. So is there a good spread across the UK?
[00:03:12] Simone: We don't want to kind of have a space cluster in every corner of the UK necessarily. It's about where there are local strengths. So researchers and universities, companies, working on products and services in a certain geographic area. So there are 14 space clusters across the UK today. They're actively managed clusters in the sense that it's not just the serendipity of those organizations being in an area together and they happen to bump into each other around the water cooler and work on a project together. It's someone, a cluster manager who's bringing those individuals together.
[00:03:44] Dallas: Almost like a curated, what was the term you used before?
[00:03:47] Simone: Actively curated serendipity.
[00:03:49] Dallas: An actively curated serendipity. Honestly,
that's a buzzword I actually quite like actually. It's quite fun.
[00:03:55] Simone: It's funny 'cause my parents were gonna originally call me Serendipity. So Yeah.
[00:03:58] Dallas: Yeah, that's what's that? Normative determinism, you know, when people have names
[00:04:03] Simone: It was top on their baby name list for Serendipity, but I got called Simone instead.
Funny that,
[00:04:10] Dallas: This idea of connectivity, this idea of joining these clusters up. Taking these Centers of Excellence, areas of specialty, expertise, are we doing a good job?
[00:04:20] Simone: Yeah, so over that 10 year period, we've gone from a handful of Centres of Excellence, and we have this really dynamic group of people, those cluster managers in 14 different locations working together collectively and collaboratively. Connecting the dots. So, you know, you could beacademic in Leicester, but there's no wrong front door to the UK space ecosystem.
So you can go to your local cluster in the Midlands, say, I want to kind of work on this particular bit of kit and equipment. They can leverage and use their network through the whole cluster ecosystem, say, okay, you need to talk to Bob over in the North Coast Scotlandand Barbara down in, the Southwest has this great piece of, information that will also support you. So it's about linking up those people.
[00:05:02] Dallas: What's your biggest challenge? I mean, how it all sounds so easy. No, everyone's gonna gather around water coolers, and we're gonna do marvelous things and space, and everything's gonna be terrific.
What's your biggest headache in all of this?
[00:05:12] Simone: The biggest headache is having the time to invest in bringing people together. It is not a day-to-day job that someone in industry in academia would do. So it's having the resources and commitments do that.
[00:05:23] Dallas: Do people not recognize it or does it seem to be a little bit of a luxury that doesn't warrant proper funding or?
[00:05:30] Simone: Well, a lot of the clusters, have ad hoc funding depending on kind of what the government, is able to put forward for this. But it needs to sustained investment to kind of build those relationships because, you know, you can build a relationship with someone, but then if the cluster manager's not there the next day, as well, you've lost momentum. But not only the momentum that you've built of people collaborating using tech and equipment. You've also lost confidence. So it takes goods while to build up those relationships, understand who's where, who's doing what, and how to kind of bring those individuals together so that they can be greater than some of the parts.
[00:06:02] Dallas: One thing I've noticed that, you know, in July there's a space conference in Manchester. I've noticed a big rise in space conferences in the UK and globally. Presumably that those are opportunities where people get together and talk about stuff as well, or are they just space people talking to space people? Whereas the CCNs are space people talking to everyone else.
[00:06:22] Simone: Yeah, so clusters are representatives of their local space ecosystem and they work together collectively, and yes, it's a lot of space talking to space, although the clusters do know where there's application space data to other communities. Whereas the CCNs, the Connected Capability Networks are dedicated resource, not just focused on one place, they can look at a national landscape and connect people based on their interest of using earth observation for agriculture, for instance. It could be a pharmaceutical company in Stevenage connecting to a space port in the north of Scotland. So they have that extra capacity to be able to make those connections. That wouldn't necessarily happen if we all just rocked up at a space conference.
If you do want to connect with your local space cluster, we have the UK Space Cluster Directory on the Catapult website. So just type in cluster directory and you can find out how they can help you to develop more products and services using space data.
[00:07:14] Dallas: Who's your favorite space cluster? Are you allowed to say, come on, say, say, say
[00:07:18] Simone: The benefit of them.
They all have the specialisms
We rely on all the 14 space clusters to bring, you know, add to the ecosystem party. You don't want a full buffet.
[00:07:27] Dallas: Yeah, okay. Fair enough. One thing I've noticed, about getting people together is the quality of the coffee better, the coffee, more likelihood of people getting together.
Hey, listen, thank you so much for, coming in and chatting and helping us. I feel like I understand a little bit better about what's going on.
[00:07:43] Simone: Thank you very much, Simone. Pleasure.
No problem.
[00:07:45] Dallas Campbell: To hear future episodes of In Orbit, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and head over to YouTube to watch the video versions of all of our discussions. And if you'd like to find out more about how Space is empowering your industry, visit the Catapult website or join them on social media.