Debt Collection, Demotions And Finding Meaning In Life Through Death.
The captivating story of how Jack Frimston transformed from Del Boy dreaming of playing the O2 arena to top performer in Sales.
In this episode of I Used To Be Crap At Sales, Jack Frimston sits with Mark Ackers, leading us through his unconventional journey from boy band dreams to becoming a top performer and sales leader.
Sales leaders will learn valuable lessons about embracing failure, mastering the art of cold calling, and the importance of persistence in a challenging industry.
Jack shares his candid experiences with early career mistakes, from misguided sales tactics to rapid promotions and demotions, and how these tough lessons ultimately shaped his mindset and approach to sales.
You can look forward to gaining insights into building resilience, fostering a growth mindset, and leading with authenticity while helping your team navigate the challenges of sales.
What is I Used To Be Crap At Sales?
Even the most prominent voices in Sales were crap at Sales once.
Join bestselling Author, Founder and Sales Coach Mark Ackers as he speaks with successful Sales professionals about their early Sales struggles, and how they overcame these challenges to become the people they are today.
Welcome to the
podcast. Here's a sneak peek of
what's coming up in today's
episode. Did you used to be crap
at sales? Yes. How crap were we
talking? Awful, really, really,
really bad. If I rewind to like,
the first sales job, I thought
selling was being Del boy from
only fools and horses. I really
thought the gift of the gab was
selling, but I was really good
at booking appointments. You
were the top Booker. I was the
top Booker, but nothing ever
closed, nothing ever closed,
except maybe one deal, apart
from one at the back end. Maybe
my whole career, up until a few
years ago, was was music, but
sales pays the bills. And I
thought, like, this boy bands
gonna take off. We're gonna be
the next big thing. Move over.
JLS, we're in town. We're taking
over. I was like, just do this
until it takes on. I remember,
like, being on the phone, but
then I'm like, my head is
somewhere else. I'm like,
dreaming about, oh, what would
it be like to play the O2 arena?
You really, honestly, when we
sort of spoke about Reed before
off camera. You said that you
got promoted too quickly. And
the only person in Reed, don't
mean to laugh, but the only
person in Reed's history to get
demoted. What the hell happened
A lot of salespeople, like,
especially when we think about
there?
like, SDRs, AES, a lot of them
are like 20 to 30. And within
20/30 there's that question mark
of, like, what is my life? What
am I doing? Where am I going to
be? I'm probably like, 25/26 I'm
like, this isn't the path that I
thought I'd be on. I'm just
working like a cruddy sales job.
What's the point? I saw a
picture of you and Chris Voss,
and I thought that was just some
weird post. That's bullshit.
There's no way you sat with
Chris Voss for an hour. He
charges like 10 grand an hour.
Be a cheeky Northerner. You'll
get it for free, right? Let's
hear that story. What happened?
mark ackers: Hello and welcome
to another episode of The I used
to be crap at sales Podcast. I'm
Mark Ackers, your host, co
founder and Head of Sales here
at my sales coach, and today in
the big orange chair, I'm joined
by the Director of Sales
consultancy, co director and
head of sales at WAM. That's we
have a meeting at a time of
recording 24,000 LinkedIn
followers, a man obsessed with
cold calling and death, and
that's just all LinkedIn says
they've also worked in an Amazon
warehouse on a cruise ship. They
sold recruitment services Ivas
and every type of insurance you
can think of, from commercial to
life, even Sky remote control
insurance up and you spend time
trying to make it in a boy band
full time. You probably worked
out when I said, wham, we have a
we have a meeting. But in case
you didn't, today's guest is
Jack frimston. Jack big, welcome
to the podcast and the orange
chairs. Thank you for having me.
That was lovely. What you said
it was like flashing back all
those awful memories. What was
the most awful memory at
flashback the Amazon warehouse
was was very, very bad. That was
like during covid. I thought,
You know what? It can't be that
bad. I'll just get to make sure,
like, pocket money. Yeah, it was
awful. I feel like I could just
talk to you for an hour about
how the intricacies of Amazon
works, but we won't do that.
That wouldn't make for a good
podcast up there on my brain.
Um, let's kick it off with a
yes. No question, did you used
to be crap at sales? Yes.
Jack Frimston: How crap are we
talking awful, really, really,
really bad. I'd even go as far
to say as, like, it's only it's
such like an egotistical thing
to say, like, I'm good at sales
now, but obviously, like, I like
to think that I'm all right at
selling, and I've got a bit of
an understanding. But if I
rewind to, like, the first sales
job, I thought selling was being
delboy from Only Fools and
Horses. I thought, I really
thought the gift of the gab was
selling, which, as you get older
in life and wiser, you realize
it's the total opposite.
mark ackers: So that's a great
place to start. We've got you in
the chair. You actually left
your house at six o'clock this
morning to drive up to our
studio in Newcastle to talk
about being crap in sales. What
made you want to do that? I
think it's I obviously, we
employ a lot of young people
that are new to sales, and I
talk a lot about it on LinkedIn,
but I think it's like, it's good
to know that, like, if you're
struggling right now, or
especially if you're at a point
in your life where you're like,
What am I doing? Like, let's
face it, most people that are in
sales fall into sales. They have
a dream outside of sales. They
have something else that they
want to pursue. My whole career,
up until a few years ago, was,
was music, but sales pays the
bills. So I was like, right?
I'll do that nine to five. Sick,
it's five o'clock. I'm off. I'm
gonna go and play guitar
somewhere. But it's like, it's
knowing that like other.
Jack Frimston: People have
walked that it's okay to feel a
little bit lost in the sales
world, and actually, if it is
something that you get better
at, like, everybody works in
sales, like even if you don't
work in sales, being a better
listener, being a better
communicator, asking better
questions, having a stronger
mindset, you're going to be
better in whatever walk of life
you go into. You're going to be
a better parent, you're going to
be a better partner, a better
friend, all of those things. So
even if you work in sales now
and you're just thinking, like,
I'm a bit lost, like I wanted to
come on and like, I respect what
you guys do, but come and people
are listening to this go, oh
god, yeah, I felt like where you
were six years ago. It might be
alright. You might end up
wearing all black in Newcastle
at nine in the morning.
mark ackers: So let's talk about
what you just said. And so much
of that resonated, and I've
spoke about that before as well.
Like, if you can pick up those
sales skills and fine tune them,
you can have better
conversations with everybody.
But let's talk about what you
said about falling into sales so
your first sales job, you've put
yourself as 1617,
Jack Frimston: appointment
booking. Tell me how you got
that first job, and if it was a
conscious choice to take a sales
job, it it was so it's so funny,
because obviously what I do now
is appointment booking, and my
first ever sales job was doing
the exact same, different kind
of different thing, but like,
it's funny how it's come full
circle 16 years later. I it was
year 10, so I was 1516, years
old, and my best friend ramen.
He was doing work experience
where he didn't get paid. Two
weeks, I went to a primary
school. I was like, maybe I'll
be a teacher. I don't know what
I want to do. So I went to a
primary school. He went to he
found a publishing company that
was in our hometown of lithium,
and he turned up, and it wasn't
a publishing company, it was a
call center selling advertising
space. So he did that for two
weeks, and he was good, like on
the phones, like he was as good
as a 16 year old can be cold
calling. And he said, I've got
this like thing. They've said,
Do you want to stay on for the
summer? Another friend went and
joined, and then they said,
Well, do you want they went, who
else do you know? And I was
knocking about with him, and he
was like, why don't you just
come in and do this? And I
turned up, and I remember, like,
the first day they give you a
piece of paper. We're talking
sometime like the the computers,
like at the Internet wasn't
massive. There was a yellow
pages for Wolverhampton. They
were like, right? You're booking
meetings in Wolverhampton. Start
at the front or the back.
There's your script. Good luck
going gone book some
appointments for Ben Jones,
who's like out in Wolverhampton
and he wants to go and sell some
advertising space.
Wow. So was you getting paid for
that job? Yeah, I think looking
back, it worked out was on about
two pound an hour
commission. There was
commission. So, so I didn't earn
any commission the first year,
and I think the back end of the
second year, I one deal close
for like a grand, and I got like
5% of something. But I was
really good at booking
appointment, but you know, you
were the top Booker. I was the
top Booker, but nothing ever
closed, nothing ever closed,
except maybe one deal, apart
from one at the back end. Maybe,
maybe that's like a self serving
memory that I've added in there
to make me not feel as bad as
about being crap at sales. But
the first day, everyone was,
like, buzzing about me. They
were like, you're going to be so
good, you're going to be so
good. But, like, I thought
rapport was the way forward. If
you can be their friend, they're
going to, like, buy from you.
And I used to say things like,
oh, we'll just come down and
we'll have a couple, we'll bring
some jammy Dodgers, and we'll
just turn up. Like, it was very,
like, pushy, needy, no. Problem
wasn't solving anything. It was
just like, let's just come down
and like, oh, Ben's a lovely
lad. He just wants to meet you.
It was very much. And people
would turn up and they'd be
like, the decision makers aren't
here. I'm just the tea lady.
Well, she probably need the
jammy Dodgers. Yeah, exactly.
They never took jammy Dodgers. I
always got in trouble
for that. So what made you the
top Booker? Then if you say you
were crap, what made you the top
Booker, because I was booking
appointments with people that
weren't decision makers, right?
I was, I was just shoving
anything through. I'd ring you
and you go, like, yeah, maybe
like, send me an email. Cool,
Tuesday at three, yeah, or
whatever. Your counterfeit. No.
Okay, counterfeit, yes, it is
right. Just take that and I'd be
like, sick, another one.
Obviously, nothing was recorded.
What I said happened on the
phone was like, and I go away,
and I Oh, they've got this
massive budget for a perimeter
board, and I'd paint a picture,
right? So top Booker may be the
wrong metric to be measuring,
but the one that makes you look
the best. Yeah, exactly right.
Okay. And then you had a uni job
selling Ivas. So again, cold
calling, but this time the
public asking their sort of, you
know, 10,000 pounds in debt, was
that a smile and dial job, or
was there a strategy there that
that was, here's, I don't even
know how they got away with it,
but they were like, here's
members of the random public.
There's no intent. Ring people
up and say, I'm calling from.
IVA company, do you have 10
grand worth of debt? And it was
probably one of the lowest
points of my life, like you.
Just imagine calling someone up
and saying, are you in debt? If
you're not in debt, you're going
to be pissed off. If you are in
debt, you're probably going to
be pissed off. So was it the
lowest point, one of the lowest
points in your life or your
career? Because that's
different.
I just remember, like, it was
while I was at university this
summer as well. And like,
obviously, like, I was going out
and I was still partying and
waking up hungover, and I think
the hours were something like 10
to eight, and just like,
strolling into this office, and
like, all the management were
thick, everybody was an idiot.
And then I've just got to, like,
call people and be like, do you
have debt? And like that. That
was, like, the I think it was
like, not a low point, but it
was like, so demotivating,
because, like, yeah. And then
when, when people like, yeah,
you're hearing stories, and
you're like, Oh, your your life
sounds really bad. And now I've
just like, I'm not even selling
to you. I'm just a therapist,
and actually, you don't even
qualify for an iba. And they're
like, Yeah, I've got loads of
debt. I've spent it all on. Do
you know I mean, TVs from bright
side or whatever?
mark ackers: So
Jack Frimston: I can see why
that would be difficult. I
suppose I'm trying to ascertain
why you took that home. Do you
know what I mean that that those
back. Like, I'm thinking of you
at university, partying, you're
studying, you know, you're going
to go on to better things. Yeah,
it's obviously a difficult job
at the time, but surely, clock
in, clock out, leave your
problems there. But it sounds
like you maybe had those
problems linger a little bit
longer, yeah? Like, I definitely
like, let that like, resonate,
like it like, you know, like,
when you look back at jobs, you
don't remember like, the days or
like the thing, you just
remember the feeling, yeah, and
I look back at that, and like,
luckily, I was working with a
friend at the time, but then,
like, I remember them being off
for like, a week or two, and
like, you're surrounded by,
like, I was like 20 Surrounded
by like, 50 year old men that
were all out in the evenings
doing Class A drugs. And you're
like, what this was in Carlisle?
Not nothing bad against
Carlisle, but, like, it just
wasn't a fun place to be. It was
a very dingy, dark call center
where you just, like doing the
same thing, and it's like you're
not allowed to even, like, go
for a toilet break or whatever.
Like, it's just very much like,
back on the phones, come on
dial. You need to hit your KPIs,
you need to do 100 you need to
just like, oh, I need the money.
Yeah, Carlisle, good night out.
It was a good night out. Was
also is, I've not had a night
out in Carlisle in about a
decade, right? So who knows?
Now, I'm sure 2024, it's banging
what? What did you learn from
those two jobs at appointment
setting and cold call in the
public? I think anybody that
cold calls, because I did it
from such a young age, like 16
to 17, and then you going on to
like 20 like, it just becomes a
bit of the norm. Whereas I
think, like, when you're like,
when you do it, when you're
older, it doesn't feel like,
like, I always talk about, like,
the fear of rejection. I'm like,
I've done it. I've had, like,
when, when we call for wham.
Now, like, it's very rare. Like,
I can't remember the last time
someone was like, really awful
to me. Like, like, it because it
doesn't happen. Like, you get
the odd person that's a bit
shirty, but like, they're not,
like, awful, awful. Whereas back
then, like, I probably blocked
out all the memories. I can't
remember the specifics of it,
but people were like, because
they're members of the public as
well, you shouldn't be calling
it like, shouting at you. And
then you just, like, It startled
you. And like, you're a young
man, and you're like, oh, is
this what happens as you get
older? People like torture. You
like this. Obviously, calling
the public and calling
businesses are different, but,
but equally, you'd have got much
but, like you are well known now
for cold calling you. Lot of
people look up to you and follow
your content and calling cold
calling. So is there an element
of though, when you're calling
today, the reason people are
more receptive, it's just simply
because you're better at it.
Like, can you think back to what
your calls may have sounded like
then versus now? Yeah, it would
have been all me. How do I how
do I get everything about our
proposition over to them?
Because, like, you don't under
until that, that phrase of like,
people don't care about you,
your problem, your website, what
your solution, whatever like,
until I knew that it was very
much like, how are they going to
know that we're like an award
winning business? How do they
know that we've saved millions,
1000s in Ivas? They're not going
to know that, whereas they don't
care. So how do I make it so I
was running in there, yapping at
people, and then all of a sudden
you're a bit like people like,
I'm bored of this that some
mockney guys just cold called
me, and I don't want to talk to
him. I've never done this, you
know, I've sat down with reps
one to ones about 10 years. And
so say you've got someone that
isn't hitting their number, I
would always be like, so how
come is not hitting your number?
What you've been doing this?
Look.
mark ackers: Activity. And like,
Steve was like, No, I'd do a
discovery call on them, how much
you think that's cost you in
commission. And he was like, why
the fuck have I never thought to
do that? And he's like, No, I'd
say to them, so you've not hit
your number. How long you not
being hit your number for?
What's the reason for that? How
long is that? How much reckon
that's cost you in commission?
Talk to me about your long term
goals. How much further away are
you? Yeah, big gap. I just feel
like that's so fucking obvious.
I've never put a rep and a one
to one for a pain funnel against
their own goals. I like that
really obviously, yeah, I'm
gonna use that. So how did you
make that switch? Then? Like,
from having the calls all about
they need to hear about our
award winning services. They
need to hear about how good we
are to it's not about me, it's
about them. How did you learn to
make that switch
Jack Frimston: to that? That
switch didn't happen until
probably, like, eight, nine
years later. Like, I think I got
more awareness. But like, I
think what, what happened is, as
I progressed through my sales
jobs, and I've had like, various
different sales jobs, they give
you like the bit, and then they
give you like you get better
training. So when I worked at,
mark ackers: sorry, sorry, we
can keep rolling. So when I
worked@read.co.uk
Jack Frimston: they like, gave
me Sandler Training. So Sandler
Training was, like, really
understanding, like the pain,
but I still didn't, like get it,
but I knew the questions to ask.
I knew the the path to go down,
like when I was working, like
commercial insurance, the first
thing that you had to ask was,
what? What are their needs?
Right? Which makes sense. So I
was asking the questions, but
then it's like, it's only been
later on in life that I've
really understood the
psychology. And I think it's
like, you can train somebody to
have the here are the here are
the things to do. But if
somebody doesn't understand why
they're doing it, they can,
like, learn the move that they
can't, like, win the fight, if
that make sense? Yeah. So just
help do some maths for me here.
How long you been in sales?
About 16 years. 16 years, and
you just said there you didn't
make that switch for eight or
nine years. You were already,
like, a year into your career,
so to speak. Yeah. So really,
what we're saying here is the
first 10 of your 16 years, you
weren't doing the right thing.
1,000,000% is that it's the same
year, 10 times over. So so let's
think so I moved to London in
when I was 21 and then I moved
out of London for when I was
like 27 so that's six years.
Within those six years, I had
four jobs, four different sales
jobs that I wasn't very good at,
and I probably got better at,
but definitely by the point I
was in the last job, I was
better. But thinking from me now
to me then,
I sometimes wish that me now
could go back and do those like
cruddy sales jobs. So I'm like,
I would have done it so much
differently. I would have been
so much better. And also
thinking about like mindset,
like sales, for me, is an
umbrella of two things,
communication and mindset. So
the communication wasn't there.
I was still Dell boy. But as the
years progressed, maybe a
watered down version, still
trying to build rapport.
Somebody on the other end of the
phone says, Yeah, I'm doing this
because I've got three kids. Oh,
I've got three kids. And it was
like, all fake, like, sunshiny
rapport, the stuff that I now
take the mickey out of on
LinkedIn. But it was only like
later on where I, like, really
started to, like, understand and
become, like, a good seller. But
the mindset wasn't there either.
I was like, I was like, I wasn't
when you think about what a high
performer is no way, nowhere
near I wasn't putting the reps
in outside of work. It was very
much nine to five, turn up, do
the bit. Don't think about it.
Was what I learned in, like, the
last three, four years, if you
like, it doesn't take a lot. So,
like, if you put a few hours in
before work, like, you commute.
You put that commute time in,
you start listening to podcasts,
you start, like, researching.
You put the recipe in while
you're in work, and then you put
a bit of work outside of work.
It doesn't take long until,
like, you kind of like, overtake
other people that aren't putting
the work in. Like, to be in the
top 5% of sellers, you gotta
think that 95% of people
probably aren't doing anything.
They've just got the experience.
They're complacent. They're
doing the same thing they've
always done. Versus, like, if
you put in a little bit of
effort, the same with anything
like, you think about human
beings, like, hardly anybody can
speak languages, but like, if
you, if you put in a little bit
of effort, then you'll probably
speak, you'll be in the top 5%
of bilingual human beings. Maybe
don't check the maths on that
one. You get the point. Can we
just get a fact check? Yeah,
please, yeah. Um, so here's,
here's what's really
interesting. You said you wished
if you now could go back.
Effectively, what you're saying
is, when you started off in
those jobs, if you had access to
someone that had already done it
and walked the path that you.
mark ackers: Want to walk, you'd
have done things differently.
That Jack would have existed,
right? You would have been able
to find and work with someone
that already done that. If you
could go back to that, that
person effectively give you,
when you're sort of starting out
in sales, access to someone
that's walked the path that
you're about to walk, had
success in those roles that it
would have fundamentally changed
what you did and the results
that you had obviously, like
those people exist like right
now. You're on a path. What,
what do you think the impact
would have been if you could
have worked with a coach at that
early age that could have helped
Jack Frimston: you. I think the
majority of sales jobs are,
here's your product knowledge,
get in and, like, start selling.
There's like, they say training,
but there's actually not sales
training. I think what, what I
definitely would have needed is
someone to, like, unlock my
motivation. Okay, so my
motivation was all about
everything that was happening
outside of work. Now, I've
always had the mindset of, while
what, even if I like, I'm not
pursuing a career in insurance,
right? I'm there, my mindset and
my work ethic was always, while
I'm here, I'm going to work as
hard as I can, I'm going to put
I'm going to put 100% in anyway.
But like, I wasn't trying to get
better. It was more like, you're
like, being busy isn't
necessarily being productive.
Like, working hard isn't like,
necessarily working smart. So I
think I needed somebody to
maybe, like, show me the way of
like, okay, let's, let's sit
down with you. What are you
trying to do? What are you
trying to, like, unlock what I'm
trying to do this outside, and
I'm trying to get to this. Okay?
And what from within, from
within work and your career,
what? What would that? How can
we get you there by doing this?
Do you know, I mean, so if it's
like a well, if I had more
money, I'd be able to do this,
this and this, I think it's like
unpicking those different
motivation points, and that's
kind of what I lacked. And I
think it's so Hindsight is
beautiful. And like, like, I'm
grateful for where I'm at now,
but like, you just kind of wish
somebody had, like, switched on
the lights and be like, just so
you know you're doing this
wrong, X, Y and Zed, if you just
make a few tweaks, it's not
even, like, massive tweaks, but
a few tweaks. Then Then you move
completely in a different
direction. How much that was
down to you, though, not being
unless, you know, remember, you
were sort of 20 at the time,
ish, maybe a bit younger, maybe
a bit older. But how much is
down to you just weren't mature
enough at that point to realize
that, or that is a reflection of
the environment that you're in.
You know, the way you've
described those jobs sound like,
you know, little grubby offices
where that's not going to be
there to inspire and motivate
you. So how much of that is down
to you as an individual, not
being open minded, mature,
whatever you want to call it,
versus using the wrong place?
I think, yeah, 1 million. I
think a lot of them, not, not
all of the jobs that I worked
in, but a lot of them were like,
the wrong place that don't
inspire, they don't motivate
you. And I think, like, that's
like a lot of salespeople, like,
especially when we think about
like, SDRs, AES, a lot of them
are like, 20 to 30. And within
20 to 30 there's that question
mark of, like, what is my life?
What am I doing? Where am I
going to be? I'm probably like,
2526 I'm like, this isn't the
path I thought I'd be on. I'm
just working like a crawly sales
job. What's the point? Whereas
it's like, you can twist that
completely and you can be like,
imagine if I got really good at
this, imagine what person I
could be. Imagine how it would
change my life. And like, now, I
mean, I'm lucky to be in that
position where I'm like, I'm so
grateful for all of that. But
the time you just, you don't
realize, and obviously you you
then find yourself now in a
position where you can make that
change. We'll come to what
you're doing now later. I found
it really interesting. We don't
need to do anything else, but
you move to London then. And you
had a two hour commute. Why
don't you just move close to
your job, or get a job closer to
where you are? London's massive
London is massive, and a 21 year
old is stupid. That's all I can
say. But like so, and the
annoying thing was, it was,
like, it was actually quite
close in, like, location wise.
But what I had to do is I had to
get the tube from where I lived
into the city center, and then I
had to get another tube back out
to the city center. So it was
like, like, out of there and
then end up there. So it was
like, 12 commute every single
day, starting work at nine
o'clock. You're leaving at
seven. You're getting home at
seven. It was like, those are
the jobs I talked about, the IVA
place, this one as well. I was
only there for five months, but
that makes my belly like, it
gives me that, like, feeling
like, oh, did I really do that?
And then I got a little bit
smart and went, Oh, imagine if I
didn't have a job here and I
could just.
Do an hour commute in London
like everybody else. Yeah, and
then that's Reed, isn't it?
That's where you went next,
yeah, I went to read next. So,
like, I interviewed for two
companies. I got a job
offer@read.co.uk
and I got offered a job in
recruitment. The recruitment job
paid two grand more. So the
recruitment job was 22 and Reid
was 20k and I was like, I'm
going to take the recruitment
job for 2k more. And my family
were like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
slow down. Slow down. Cab where
they were like, right? This is
like, a little unknown
recruitment job, like, the
commute still a little bit far.
They're like, this is Reed,
massive company office in Covent
Garden. Look at what they do for
all their staff on a monthly
basis. Like, just, just don't be
hasty, just for a couple of
grand more. And I was like, I
was still young. I was like,
Yeah, whatever. Then I'll take
that one best decision, the
recruitment job I probably would
have lasted three months, and I
would have hated it. Reed was
one, one of the best places to
work. Like, I still have very
fond memories of them. And they
were a company that did give a
shit about their people and did
care about getting them better
at sales. Was I self aware
enough to take it all on board?
Probably not, and I thought that
I knew better, but I think
that's ego of a 22 year old. And
you were really honest with me
when we sort of spoke about Reid
before off camera, you said that
you got promoted too quickly.
And the only person in Reid,
don't mean to laugh, but the
only person in Reed history to
get demoted, demoted. What the
hell happened there? I was
very confident. Went in and,
like, I think, like, like most,
they probably hired loads and
loads of young people. And I
saw, like, every month there was
a new influx. And, like, I was
on the phone, I was doing
really, really well. And they
were like, this kid is good.
This kid's doing something. And
I was like, I was selling low of
value stuff, 300 400 pound.
Like, imagine if we put him on
the three, 4k stuff. Like, he's
really good. So he's like, move
desk. I moved so that was there,
and then I moved two desks to
the higher value, and I've only
been there a few months. And I
was like, Hey guys, yeah, like,
all confident. And then I think
a month in, nothing could
happen. They were like, I think
we've been too hasty. We're
gonna move you back down. And
like, I was like, I'm the only
person in history to be
demotivated,
mark ackers: demoted and
demoted, demoted and
demotivated. That's the one.
Yeah. How did you deal with
that? Because there is that. Oh,
sorry, guys. Let me just pick up
my pen and pencil and phone and
move to two decks down, or
whatever it was like, how, how
did you not let that beat you?
And where you think I just need
to leave, because I can imagine
making that move, and everyone's
seeing it as well.
Must be like, you say,
demotivating, but how did you
cope with her?
Jack Frimston: You know what? I
think it was one of those, like,
I just took it on the chin.
Like, like, I really like, and
that's kind of been, like a bit
of a mindset thing through life,
like it'll be what it is. I was,
like, Cole, what? What's in my
control at this point? Probably
subconsciously more so. But
like, Colt, have been demoted.
Let's have a laugh about it.
Everyone's gonna take the piss
anyway, so I might as well join
in, and then, just like, focus
on getting good, back where I
was, and then I was only, I was
only there for another year, and
then classic, young salesperson,
I moved to another company with
bigger dreams and hopes of
bigger commission, and that
didn't come to fruition well
before that. This is, we don't
need again to dwell on this, but
I need to hear more. This was
the boy band phase, the boy band
phase. So at this point, had you
decided sales was the career for
you, but you need to go and do
this? Or were you still unsure
if you went to be in sales long
term? I knew that I was, well, I
say, I knew that I was never
going to be in sales full time.
I was like, sales is a stop gap,
1,000,000%
32 year old, sat here now sales
full time. I'm going to be doing
sales for the rest of my life
now. Like I know that at the
time, was like, it's a stopgap.
I was like, I'm in a boy band. I
say boy band. We thought we were
a cool indie band. We weren't.
And I thought, like, this boy
band is going to take off. We're
going to be the next big thing.
Move over. JLS, we're in town.
We're taking over. I was like,
just do this until it takes on,
like we were so confident that
it was going to happen. I was
like, I'll just, I'll just keep
doing this until we get there
again. Though, is that not a
reflection of the reason why you
probably didn't have the the
mindset to be successful in
sales, then, yeah, 1,000,000%
like, I remember, like, being on
the phone, but then I'm like, my
head is somewhere else. I'm
like, dreaming about, oh, what
would it be like to play the oh
two arena whereas I'm mid
conversation, how can you
communicate effectively and be a
good listener and ask thought
folking questions if you're not
even in the.
Conversation, if you're just
going through the motions, it's
like, I say to my team, like,
you can't just, you can't. Like,
we all do it. We all fall into
autopilot. But like, you can't,
like, if you really want to be
present, you have to be there in
that moment. And like, genuinely
care about what you're listening
to, genuinely care about those
problems that you're listening
to, and think, How can I ask a
good question next? Whereas, if
you're like, right, okay, oh,
what? Sorry, you said that.
Right. What's next to my script?
Cole, I was just thinking about
another song that I could write
like it's I wasn't present at my
head was elsewhere. So again,
totally understand exactly what
you're saying. And if you've got
bigger dreams, you've got to
pursue them. And you did that,
the boy band phase, as you
called it. That's not my, my
words there, but what was the
name of the band? Oh, the tailor
made. The tailor made is in,
like, a tailor made suit, yeah,
not like golf, but like, like
the tailor made suit. So that
was a band. The tailor made, the
tailor made, um, kind of music,
indie, kind of a bit scouting
for girls. I love scouting for,
like, if you asked me, were you
good, I'd say, No, did we do all
right, yeah, we got lucky. We
won some decent competitions. We
went on tour. We, like, we were,
like, went on tour like Tom
Jones, the beach, woods. I like,
got to, sorry, Tom Jones is in,
like, the Welsh Tom Jones.
Like, the Tom Jones, yeah. Like,
we got to a point where, like,
we were playing to people of
like, 15,000 like, like, I don't
want to clang. It feels all
like, oh, icky. But like, seal
told me that you've literally
called it a boy band phase,
yeah, but it's a podcast about
sales, isn't it? It's not about,
like, the The LJ, literally,
you've got boy band phase. I'm
here, in here Tom Jones and
15,000 people. We, we did all
right, like, we, we did quite a
lot bigger. So our, our manager
that signed us, he was part of,
like, Live Nation, so, like, he
put us on all the tours. So we,
like did George Ezra, we went on
tour with madness, which was
wicked,
mark ackers: of just clanging
them all, all over the stage.
Can we pick these names
Jack Frimston: that we'll stop
there? No, I want to hear more.
You'll like this one. We were
crowned the best buskers in
London by Boris Johnson,
this is a, this is a wine. I've
heard it. I swear down. What are
you doing in sales? Why? No,
because so then, like, one day,
up until I was, like, working in
my sales job, at the time, I was
like, 26 you want Spotify, yeah.
But we're not, we aren't Mark
hackers. We are not gonna play I
think we need to play a bit now.
We're not gonna play the
mark ackers: This is awful.
Where's this gun? Sorry, right.
I've got all your songs here.
The tailor made. It's official.
Got that little blue tick as
well. So what's the best song?
None of them are good. Oh,
what's the best one, though,
I don't know. Well, living,
living, loving, no, no, that's
rum and Red Bull. That sounds
horrible. Rum and Red Bull. Take
me No, that's bad. Mr. Perfect.
Really bad. So about you? Yeah,
spinning around that's awful,
right? Come on, pick a song, or
I'm gonna pick one. Cougar in
the corner. Cougar in the
corner. Why can I not fight? Ah,
got it.
Jack Frimston: Oh, wow, is this
stuff. Hang on, skip.
mark ackers: Mate, that's I'm
gonna give this a Yeah.
Jack Frimston: How do I like
follow? There we are. I don't
think I follow anyone's spark. I
promise you, there's no new
music coming anytime soon. So
why? Why didn't that work out
then? So I was so I was working
in an insurance company selling
insurance, and the majority of
people that worked there were
young artsy professionals, like
singers, dancers. 10 people got
hired every month. Nine people
got sacked every month. So, like
one would ask, so
all three of the lads in the boy
band started the job. One of the
lads got sacked for hanging up
on people. One of the lads got
moved to recruitment. And three
years in, I was the only one
that survived in sales. But we
would do, we were just doing
that, and then we, like, we'd
say, right, we need a week off.
We're going on tour. We're doing
this, we're doing that. And we
got a call one day, and we got a
call, and it was our agent, it
was our manager and our tour
promoter, and they just said,
You've not sold enough ticket. I
think, like, we'd sold 100 in
London, 50 in Manchester, and
eight in Carlisle.
We knew no one in car. So that
was, no, it's uni there? Yeah,
no, but no one was Carlisle's
very own. No one stays in
Carlisle. So they pulled the
tour. The tour got pulled. And
then we were just like, What do
you want to do now? And I was
like, lads, I'm done. I'm so
over this. I was like, I want to
go traveling. I want to enjoy
myself.
Of and that's how I ended up on
the cruise ships, right? So it
kind of progresses. So it was
like, sales, sales, sales, doing
music, trying to make a dream of
that. That didn't work out. But
I think it's like, it's an
important lesson as well. Like,
I'm big on, like, chasing your
dreams, but it's also important
to know when to say that's not
my dream anymore. Like, I would
have it would have really, like,
I mean, I wouldn't have known,
because I would have been doing
it. But to be, like, 32 like,
still, like living at my
auntie's house, like trying to
make it in a boy band, I think
it's like, there's points where
your priorities change and
you're, like, your fundamentals.
It's like, what do I like
everything I do now with the
business and, like, the kind of
the mission I'm on now, I get
fulfilled in like, it's the same
feeling as, like, performing to
a crowd, if that makes sense,
like you're chasing the same
kind of endorphin rush of like,
when you close a big deal, or
like you have a great client
succeed and things like that.
Look, I love sales, right?
Really passionate about it. I
don't feel like I ever compared
it to, like, sitting backstage
with Tom Jones and 15,000 people
singing my songs. But okay,
whatever, whatever sort of helps
you there. Um, so yeah, it felt
like when I was going through
sort of your background, sort of
preparing for the podcast, I
felt like this was the point
where I was like, it feels like
I lost his way here, right? We
went from, and you literally
called it a boy band phase. I've
never felt so lied to, but you
literally said, like, I had all
these sales jobs boy band phase.
Then it was, it was like, like,
you say, cruise ships, Amazon,
warehouse. It felt like you lost
your way. And I was kind of
wondering, why weren't you in
sales at that point? Yeah, so,
like, I just the the music had
ended, and I was young enough to
say, I just want to, like, get
away. I want to start again, do
something. What can I do? I
thought, well, you can have a
roof over your head, go, go
traveling, work on cruise ship.
So I did that for a couple of
years, and, like, and I enjoyed
it, and it was great. And I
think, like, the communication
skills that I had definitely
helped me, like, on the first
cruise ship, I was, like a bingo
host. The second cruise ship, I
was in, like a rock band
performing on the stage. And
then, like, pandemic hit. And
like, I was 28 and I'm at like,
a real What do you do with your
life? And then I went back to
England, like during the
pandemic. And then I was like,
well, I need some pocket money.
I'm gonna start working in
Amazon. And then I was like, I
need to do something. My mate
was like, I've got a spare room
in Manchester. Why don't you
move to Manchester and just get
a sales job? I was like, sound
like, I know them, like, bread
and butter. I'm always gonna get
a sales job, I just feel like, I
don't know if you've been there,
but like, I could just, you can
always find something, and
you're like, I'll always have
enough money, because it's what
I know my CV is, all right, even
I've got the scattiest CV, like,
I don't think, I don't think I'd
hire me if I, if I interviewed
for my job, like a job at my
company. Now, I think I'd look
at my CV and go, This person is
too scary. I don't know, like
it's, it's, fills me with fear
all the things. But I landed
another sales job, and that was
the point where it was like,
This is it? There's no There's
no boy band to fall back on.
There's no cruise ship. I'm not
going back there. What happens
now? So I'm like, 28 I was like,
What is this path? Like, I'm
approaching 30. You think, like,
this is a point where I should
have my shit figured out. I
don't have anything figured out.
I don't know what I'm doing. And
I was like, this is like the
time to make change. I started
thinking, and the change didn't
come from, I'm going to get good
at sales. The change started
coming from, like, self
development of, like, I'm
reading the business books, you
know, like, all, like, the the
David Goggin stuff, the Jesse,
it's that that was the stuff.
And I was like, right? What if I
run a marathon? That would be
good for your mindset, right?
Okay, I did that. And then,
like, I stayed in a monastery
and, like, I started, like,
learning about like, mindset and
all of those things. And then
Zach, who's been my best friend
of 1617, years, we went to high
school together, he was like,
I'm in the same point. He was
like, I've been doing this sales
job my company had just like,
don't respect me. I've got a
baby on the way. He was like, he
texted me. Was like, I've had a
brainwave. I was like, what?
It's like, I'm gonna start my
own business. And then that's
where the cogs of like, I'm at a
point in my life where I don't
know what I'm doing, I don't
really know where I should go.
He's on the same and he's like,
I'm gonna make a leap. I'm going
to do something. And I was like,
we were having conversations on
a regular basis. And I was like,
there's enough room on that
piece of wood for two. He was
like, Why didn't join me? And
then that's when the next
chapter of life, I guess, after
the cruise ship and the
pandemics, starts when you say
that piece.
Would Are you referring to Jack
and Rose? I was glad that you
picked up on the Titanic. Well,
just cruise ships, Titanic.
Yeah. So before we open up that
next chapter, obviously, that's
going to be a really interesting
part of this podcast. Let's have
some funny stories, right?
You've obviously worked at a
number of different sort of
whether you want to use word
dodgy or not, jobs. And what is
the when you look back in now,
the funniest thing, or funny
story from selling that springs
to mind the first company when I
first moved to London, like I
remember interviewing, and like,
I'm not, I'm not saying like I
was good at sales. I was crap at
sailed, but I was switched on.
And I think, like, it was a
little area in edgeware, which
is, like a shithole in London on
the corner. Anyone watching this
in edgeware? Sorry, but like, I
think I interviewed, and, like,
I was, like, around people that
were also interviewing. I was
like, I'm a bit different here.
Like, I'm a bit more, like,
switched on, everyone felt a bit
slower. And I think, like, the
the Manage, the managers, I
think they couldn't believe
their luck. They were like, how
was this guy? Like, got, got
this, like, how's he ended up
here? And, like, they they left.
They said, Jack, can you stay
behind? They were like, We want
you. We want to offer you a job
on the spot right now. Will you
take it? I was like, Yeah, all
right, first interview in
London. Like, I just arrived,
bags packed ready to be in a boy
band. And they were like, we'll
give you a job. You can start
tomorrow. I was like, Cool, I
need a job. And it was
something. The wage was awful.
It might be like, 16 grand a
year, and I was spending half of
that on the big commute. So that
was going on, and that was
selling insurance for sky. Now,
I don't know if you realize, but
if you've got sky and you box
breaks, like, you just ring sky
and they'll look after it, but,
but they had all these people's
details, and we were like,
ringing them up. And it was, it
was a dodgy, manipulating
company, and they were like,
ringing old people. And I was
like, I don't feel like ethical
doing this like you need to
ensure you Sky remote. It's the
same price as a domino as a
month like selling that one of
the guys, the manager, like we
all, got called into a board,
boardroom meeting, and I'd roped
in the other two lads from the
boy band at this time. So where
I went, they followed. And they
were like, someone's been
stealing bank details. I was
like, What's up me? I'm looking
at my lads and like, not them.
And then they called the manager
out. And they were like, right,
he's gone right moving forward.
They were like, Jack, can you
stay behind? I paid about two
three months. They were like,
You're, uh, you're the new
manager, assistant manager to
another guy, Assistant to the
manager, yeah, like, 21
I was like, Oh, I'm now the
sales manager. Like, what is
this going to turn to a funny
story, because this is so far,
like, I'm bit depressed. Well,
no, it's like, I don't think,
like, yeah, it's like,
depressing. But also, like, I
became the assistant sales
manager, and then two weeks
later I got sucked.
So that's probably the, okay,
there's the punchline. So what
happened? Why did you get
sacked? Somebody turned up for a
job interview. All the the
owners of the company were on
lunch, and I was like, I'm the
assistant manager. I'll just do
it. And then they were like, you
shouldn't have, like, gone above
your pay grade. I was like,
Yeah, but I'm the assistant
manager. You guys said that I
was and they were like, yeah,
you've gone above your pay
grade. You sucked. I was like,
right, Cole. And then I went and
found read.co.uk, the UK is
number one job site. Thankfully,
you're the coin for that. Yeah,
every time I say it so funny.
No, but like dodgy and just like
how things happen. But what I
find funny is, as a sales
manager, the first thing I did
was go to Google Images, type in
motivational posters, print them
all off on crappy eight, four,
and stick all these things up on
the wall that say you can do
this. You got this. And I think
back, and I go, how pathetic.
So, okay, there was a punchline
there. What about, like, a funny
story of a prospect, maybe the
rudest call you've ever had, or
the funniest sort of experience
you've had in sales with a
customer prospect.
I remember, I remember cold
calling, cold calling, somebody
tell them advertising space, and
it was stables, and this woman
was crying down the phone and
said, nobody cares about the
horses. Why would you want to
advertise? Nobody. Nobody in
like swearing, nobody cares
about the horses. And I thought
that was quite a unique take.
Surely, some people do care
about the horses. I'm
mark ackers: not getting the
funny stories, but I'm getting
stories. Sorry, that's okay. So
let's move on. Then you your
colleague, Zach, who, because I
come on your podcast, yes,
couple years ago, he says, I'm
going to start my own business.
That feels like a pretty
precarious time for him to do
that if he's got a baby on the
way. I can imagine those
conversations didn't go down too
well at home, but you've decided
I'm going to join I'm going to
join the business. Talk to us
about that like obviously people
who follow you will know about.
But what, what was the big
vision here?
Jack Frimston: So Zach was, Zach
was working in like, a 360 job
where, like, he was the guy that
went in, open the doors, via,
via cold calling, and then he
would sit the meetings, and then
he would close the deals, and
then he'd pass it on, like,
okay, whatever it is.
He had one month's rent, and his
wife was very supportive. She
was like, you you do it. You do
you like, because it's one of
those. I think when you go into
it with the mentality of this
has got to work like, there's no
other when we asked some of our
team, like, Oh, why did you hit
commission this month, some of
them were like, I had to. I've
got other priorities outside of
work that I need to make sure
that I'm hitting so, like, it's
like, one of those that you've
got to you've got to do it. So
Zach jumped in, and I think he
was ringing a few people, and
they were saying to him, I don't
need what you're selling me. But
what I do need is, like, I need
someone like you to open the
doors for me. Do you want a job?
So every third or fourth call
people saying, like, I need
someone like you to like and
obviously we're big into like
Sandler and Benjamin dennehys
approach and things like that.
And I think, like, he'd been
listening to the to Benjamin
Dennehy might win it podcast,
and he was like, one of the
things that they said between
them is, if you are working from
home during a pandemic and
you're cold calling, you've not
got someone leaning over your
shoulder, you should be doing
this for yourself. And I think
one of Ben Benjamin dennays
first job was appointment setter
from massive marketing company,
and that was like, I'm just
going to do that. And like,
there was some like, doubt
around it. And then I think on
his ninth call, someone was
like, if you can do that for me,
then yeah, we'll go. And that
was his first client. And then
he got busy, and we were
obviously, we were talking once
or twice a week anyway, as mates
do, he's filling me in on his
I'm telling him about how crap
this is, but what I'm doing in
my life. And he was like, there
is an opportunity here. And then
that's where it was like, right?
I'm going to go off. I'm going
to start listening. Start
listening to the podcast, I'm
going to start reading, I'm
going to, like, really put some
time in. And then it got to a
point that I think that was,
like, in the summer, and then it
got to the point by the January,
I was like, right, I'm all in.
I'm joining, let's go. And this
feels like the pivotal moment
where, like, you say it was self
development, it was realizing
sales as a skill, one that you
can properly learn. Um, just
before, like, you started doing
that, did you think at the time
you were good at sales? Yeah,
yeah, I thought I was good at
sales, but I was crap at sales.
What's the difference there?
Like, How good did you think you
were, versus how crap were you
now, when you look back? So
let's do it on a scale of one to
10. How good did you think you
were? I thought I was a 10. Wow.
So you thought you were
brilliant. Then, yeah? And now,
when you look back, probably a
three, right? But then if I, if
you asked me to rank myself now,
I'd probably say I
was gonna be really a guy. Go,
yeah, definitely a 12. No, I'd
probably say a seven or like,
like, because I think, like, if
you're self aware enough to
know, like, there's always room
to learn. Like, like, do I do
things perfectly? No, like,
you're always looking for like,
that extra bit like, and I think
like, with self awareness, when
it comes it's like, I think
anyone that sits there and says,
I'm a tenant sales is somebody
that is probably oblivious to
the truth. It's like, there's
always, there's always room to
learn and room to improve and
get better. Could I have asked a
better question? Could I have
listened more? Could I be more
in the present moment? So like,
definitely, like, I'm still
learning and like, I'm still on
that, that road to development,
and I think fast forward 30
years, I'll still be there
anyone that sort of work closely
with me, will know that I have
to ask this question. Like I
just when I hear people say
seven out of 10, it's just I've
got to ask it. When people say
seven out of 10, they normally
mean six or eight. You're saying
you're a seven out of 10. What
do you really mean? I reckon
seven,
mark ackers: seven. Seven's a
number for a reason in it. And
no, but I just feel like that's
the casual most people when they
score a film, if it's all right,
we give it a seven out of 10.
It's the go to, yeah. I don't
think I'd say a six. That means
I'm probably just Yeah. I don't
think I'd say a six. But then I
also think, like eight is
virgin. It depends if you want,
like, a self aware answer or an
ego statistical answer. Well, an
egotistical answer when you said
10 out of 10, yeah, lack of self
awareness seven points. So we're
closer to an eight. I mean, you
get 2.5 you round up in maths.
Yeah, I didn't listen in math.
So earlier, you're an AR 10. Um,
do you believe now in your role?
You are aware of the
responsibility you have for the
for the people, in sense of you
didn't have that support, you
didn't have that workplace, you
didn't have that mentorship you
are now responsible for. Is it
1515, people into like, how do
you take what the environment
you've been ensure that you're
not repeating history and you're
giving them what you needed? I.
Jack Frimston: So great
question. I think I've had a lot
of bad bosses and a lot of twat
bosses, and I like to think that
may be corrected like and
definitely with people that that
have come and gone throughout
the company. Maybe I've not
always been that 100% but, but
we're all human, and I think we
can acknowledge that. But I like
to think like that it's such a
wanky phrase, but the doors
always open. But like,
genuinely, like, we've got,
we've got two new two, two new
people that are with us. I sit
down with one of them twice a
week for half an hour blocks.
Like, it's like that, that
coaching element every morning
within the company, like, we'll
do something when it's like
refining a skill, or cool,
listening a role play whatever
it is, and then throughout the
day, it's just like, I really
think it's like keeping on top
of people and being there and
then learning different people's
styles. Like, what do you need?
Do you need a bit of directness?
Do you need it to be kind of a
bit of a sandwich? Do you need
it to be, like, softly, softly.
But I think, I think that's
another skill in itself. Is like
being a sales manager, and
obviously like starting a
company, you've thrown in the
deep end, your your head of
sales, your team leader, your
head of it, Head of Marketing,
all these different things that
you're learning. And I think
we've just been there's a
element of skill. There's also
an element of luck. Everything
kind of kind of amalgamates
together. Do you think you do
enough today? You know, you've
obviously had that period where
that thirst for knowledge and
desire to improve. Do you still
have that same passion for self
development? You still do
enough? I like to think so,
like, like, yeah, like, in the
mornings I'm listening to, I can
never remember this, but I'm
listening to, like, an audible
book that someone recommended me
about sales. I'm very lucky that
we have our own podcast, and the
people that we bring on are,
like, typically, sales leaders
or like, like influencers, not
influencers, but like legends in
the world of like,
communication. So, like, I got
to sit down with Chris Voss a
couple of weeks ago for an hour.
I thought that was bullshit. I
saw that this is where you you
come undone because you put so
much funny stuff on LinkedIn. I
saw a picture of you and Chris
Voss, and I thought that was
just some weird post. That's
bullshit. There's no way you sat
with Chris Voss for an hour. He
charges like 10 grand an hour.
Be a cheeky Northerner. You'll
get it for free, right? Let's
see that story. What happened?
Got so, yeah, so I mean, that
episode's coming, coming out in
a few weeks, by the time this
comes out, that that episode of
us and Chris Voss might come
out. But like it was we just, we
had, we had a we started the
podcast with one intention, to
get Benjamin Dennehy on the
podcast. You've changed that you
because in between the tapes,
I've corrected you accordingly.
No, you said that. Hey, rewind
it. He's been calling Benjamin
dennahi, and I said to him off
camera, I think it's denahi,
because he corrected me, and
you've just changed it anyway.
We love you, Benji,
so that was the aim, to get that
was the aim. And within three
weeks of starting the podcast, I
messaged him on my birthday, and
he was like, You know what?
Yeah, cool. And then, and we
formed a relationship with,
like, we've done a lot of events
together, and, like, we meet up
for lunch when he's around. And
like, I really love the guy, and
I can he seems like he's quite
like, a mentor type figure to
you, yeah, yeah. Definitely like
it. And he's very wise, very
smart. He's like, he's the goat.
We call him the goat like we're
the the young bucks, and he's
the goat.
Going off topic now, but we had
Chris Voss son on Brandon moss
on your podcast, on our podcast.
So how did you get him on? We
cold, I'm gonna admit it cold.
Emailed
Unknown: the black swan group,
yeah, and they came and they put
him on, and then we released
that episode. Then we Whoa, this
is important. This is this is
really good. So you identified,
was this all part of the
strategy to get Chris not
Jack Frimston: part of the
strategy? Because you it's a
hard one. Is it like because you
might end up there and you might
be criticized. So Zach reached
out to the people that look
after Christopher, and they said
he's just turned one down, and
they offered him 50 grand. This
is what I mean. He still got the
WhatsApp. And I was just like,
alright, we'll never get him.
Well, let's get his son on
because his son's like, really,
really cool as well, and he'll
have some stories. Then we got
one of the other instructors on
sandy Hine, who was amazing, and
then I reached back out to Sandy
after the conversation. And
like, I'm getting to sit down
with these people for an hour,
an hour and a half, and like,
it's, it's a story about, like,
they're teaching me how to
label, how to like this is so
we've had loads and loads of
people from that world that are
teachers. So I'm learning
constantly, and then I'm
editing. I'm listening to again,
and then I'm going to listen to
my own other podcasts and stuff
like that. So I'm always the
first for knowledge is there.
Sandy Hine comes on. Reach back
out, Sandy, thank you. Would you
come back? And then she says,
Why don't you get these three
on? And then I have that
relationship there with them.
Some of the people from the
media team, and we emailed and
said, Listen, we want to get go.
Risk on can we make it happen?
And he turned up and went,
you've had the whole team. Why
my, why am I the last one to be
invited? And I was like, You
were definitely invited first.
But yeah. And that is amazing.
But we look at the we look at
that from like a prospecting
angle. But what we've just done
there is like, whether, whether
that was the intention or not
like, but that was like, account
based strategy, you know, I
mean, we've got all the
influencers and champions who
are fucking amazing in their own
right, like they, they
definitely deserve their own
episodes and then, and then we
got the decision maker, and we
got to sit with Chris Voss for
an hour and have a masterclass,
like one on one, me, Zach and
him in a room. You don't get
that. So this was, this was your
podcast, though, but did it turn
into a masterclass for the two
of you? Yeah, because it's just,
this is like that for us. Like
the podcast, like conversations,
like you get to learn from
people, and like you ask that,
we ask the questions that, like
I'm curious to know. Because I
think if I'm curious to know it,
then hopefully the audience is
like, how do you do that? Give
me an example of that. What does
that? What are the low stakes
games? Like, we, we've got,
we've we've won podcast guests
by cold calling them, like, out,
like, out the blue, like,
obviously, like, in the same
way. Like, do you know James
Sinclair, the entrepreneur. Um,
name rings a belly man. He's,
like, he's all over Tiktok and
stuff like that. Oh, he's on
Tiktok now, no, he's this multi
million, or, like, multi
millionaire, like, entrepreneur,
and I just called him. So I'll
be honest, I'm calling you to
invite you on our podcast. It's
a bit of a weird one. It's out
the blue, I don't know. That
makes you want to hang up or let
me have 30 seconds and run
through what why I've called
you,
mark ackers: yeah, gone then,
all right, yeah, block me in. So
I think it's like the skills
that you've got. How can you use
that in other areas of your life
as well? It sounds great. I
definitely cannot wait to watch
that podcast with Chris Voss.
Honestly, I remember that when I
saw that picture, I was going to
message you, going, how did you
do that? And I was expecting you
to go, you idiot, that's a mock
up, because I just thought it's
not. There's no way. So that's
incredible. What a great story.
So we spoke about, obviously,
the fact you're a leader now
you're a manager, different
skill set. This happens to
salespeople a lot. They're
successful, they get promoted
into a manager role. Appreciate
you're not promoted as such.
You've taken the job, but you're
now a first time leader, and
obviously have been for a number
of years. But how are you
learning and navigating that
world?
Jack Frimston: I think the same
way that you
it's an interesting one, but
it's like leaning on people that
you that you know from like,
I've got friends that like lead
companies and manage teams and
stuff like that, but also like
other like leadership books and
leadership podcasts and stuff
like that. There's so much like
knowledge out there, I think,
like, we're so blessed as like,
like humanity now that anything
you want. Like, not everything.
Like, everything's out there for
free. Like, there, there are
people that will kind of, like,
sell you courses for 1000s and
1000s of pounds on how to be a
better leader. But not
everything has to be behind a
paywall. Like, if you find the
right books, right like, the
right podcast, the right YouTube
videos, like, you can find the
the knowledge, the issue. The
issue isn't the knowledge is, it
is like putting it into practice
and like having the
accountability. Luckily, me,
Zach and Ben, my ops director,
we hold ourselves accountable in
that sense. So it's like, what
are we doing? What we focusing?
What problem are we trying to
solve? And we're leaning on each
other. So we're all going away
learning, like, different skill
sets, then bringing it back to
the table and be like, I'm going
to do x, y and z in this
situation. What would you do?
No, that's right. Proceed with
that. No, actually, I deal with
it like this. And my ops
director, he comes from he ran
teams at vodka revs like and
then he moved into, like,
project management. He's got
loads of experience managing
people, so there's a lot of
like, on site learning as well
from him. Sounds like, obviously
that's a really important trio
there. I've met Zach and Ben.
Actually, I remember my last
couple of weeks at a Lego I was
like, I'll have a chat with you
just before I go.
What's been the most influential
book on you and your career?
It's a really good question.
Mike, it's a real hard one,
because you think, like my
personal life has obviously had
an effect on my career. But if
I, if I think about my career
now,
Unknown: I think,
Jack Frimston: as a seller,
Sandler, you can't teach a kid
to ride a bike at a seminar.
That's one of the game changer.
Also, Chris Voss never split the
difference
like Dale Carnegie.
Very hard to pick one. But like
those books about mindset and
communication, they're like the
they're
probably the draw.
mark ackers: Others. So I've,
I've read two of those. I
haven't read the Sarna one,
which is ironic, really, because
I really like Sarna.
So three books there. Who would
you say said the biggest
influence on you as a seller?
Jack Frimston: It's probably, I
don't know if it's like a
political aunt or a cheesy aunt,
but it'd probably have to be
Zach like, from, from like, a
standpoint of, obviously, like,
doing, being in the trenches
every day, like, like, when,
when the business started, I was
in a co working space surrounded
by strangers, cold calling. And,
like, cold calling is hard at
the best of times, but like to
do it in a room full of
strangers, and everybody's got
their Macbooks, and they're all
on Canva making pre, like,
little graphic designs, and
you're the schmuck in the corner
cold calling people like to be
in the trenches and be like,
going back and forth with each
