Welcome back everyone to 101 questions that church planners ask. I'm your host, Danny Parmelee. Now, every week at the end of the episode, I invite you to head over to the blog and submit your church planting questions, but I've actually had more people that are asking their questions through Instagram and Facebook, which is fun because I get to put a face with the name, so keep those coming. Now it's always difficult to sort through which questions to tackle, so if you do not hear your question answered right away, know that it gets added to the list to be answered at some point. And this week, I was asked a similar question by two different people, and one listener took the time to submit their question by sending in the video.
Danny Parmelee:So take a listen.
Speaker 2:Hey Danny, my name is Ricky Garzone. My wife, Callie, and I are planting Redeemer Borger here in Borger, Texas. Gonna be assessed by acts 29 in October, so you can be praying for us there. We are hoping to launch our Sunday morning service January third of twenty twenty one. Anyway, just wanna say thank you for the podcast.
Speaker 2:It's been super helpful. My question is to you guys, is it important for a church planner to have an undergrad or seminary degree?
Danny Parmelee:Ricky, first of all, thanks for taking the time to submit your question, and glad to hear that you're going to take the big step of Assessment Center, so hope that goes well for you and your wife. Let me start off by saying that I am a fan of formal education. I got my undergrad in Religious Studies at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Studied Biblical Hebrew at Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and then went on to complete my MDiv at Bethel Seminary in in Minneapolis Saint Paul with a major in Hebrew, but I will talk more about that a little bit later. My undergrad was unique because it was at a state school, so not a Christian school at all.
Danny Parmelee:Actually, it was pretty hostile towards Christianity, so my New Testament and Old Testament classes were sincerely, why you shouldn't believe in the Bible. However, these classes really forced me to deal with some of the hard questions as it related to bibliology and text criticism. So I'm actually really, really thankful for my time that I spent there. And I felt called to plant a church shortly after I surrendered my life to Christ in college. So for me, going to seminary was an important next step, because I just felt so young in my faith and in my biblical knowledge.
Danny Parmelee:And there were a couple key classes that I took in seminary that were foundational and made me a better pastor and preacher. So those being hermeneutics, theology one, two and three, and a few of the New Testament and Old Testament survey classes. Those really created a foundation for me on how to read and interpret scripture. The ministry classes on the other hand, were a lot less helpful to me. I think many of the pastoral and ministry skills are really hard to learn in a classroom setting.
Danny Parmelee:You're really gonna learn those in real life ministry environment, whether that's maybe an internship or a residency, or maybe even, you know, something maybe before you get into a lead pastor or church planting role, maybe you're learning a youth ministry or something along those lines. Now, I mentioned that I had studied two semesters of Hebrew in Israel, and majored in Hebrew in seminary. I also took Greek in seminary, so you might think that I am just this advocate of taking the languages and that those are like the key to being a great pastor and planter and preacher. Well, I am not an advocate of taking the languages. Or let me rephrase it this way, I don't think that a pastor or planter should over invest time in the languages.
Danny Parmelee:Why? Because myself, and most pastors that I talk to who have studied the languages, don't sight read straight from the Hebrew or the Greek text. And most of my classes were set up that way. So if you haven't taken the languages yet, I suggest that what you do is that you consider taking a tools course, or a one to two semester class that teaches you the mechanics of the language, including pronunciation, and grammar, and syntax, but does not require you to memorize vocabulary and, like, the verb forms. Because if you don't use the language on a regular basis, you quickly lose your ability to sight read, and what you end up doing is just using the lexicon and the other tools for your study.
Danny Parmelee:I still love Hebrew. But when people come up to me and they show me their Hebrew tattoos, and they're like, hey pastor, isn't this Hebrew amazing that I have tattooed on my arm? I just kind of nod my head and pretend that I know exactly what it says. And maybe I'll know a word here or there, but I am still completely dependent on using a lexicon. So you don't need to be an expert at Hebrew or Greek to be a good preacher.
Danny Parmelee:Now I think it is helpful to know the languages, and how they work, the basics, but then what you're able to do is just read what the experts have to say about it. So maybe you're using a critical commentary that will, you know, get into the sentence structure and some of the actual words that are used, And there are the people that have dedicated their lives to the language, and they can explain this to you as you read it in a commentary or some sort of book that really pulls out the language. So if you're called to be a language expert, then yes, Immerse yourself in the language, know everything about it, be able to sight read. If you're not, then I would shift your time and attention elsewhere and focus on, you know, hermeneutics and theology. For my particular situation, what worked out well, is that Emily and I, we were just married, we didn't have any kids.
Danny Parmelee:So it it worked in our life stage to move into seminary housing. My wife had her first job out of college, and I just dedicated my time to seminary. It also was time for me to kind of prepare my heart and to spend some time praying through the vision that God was really birthing in me to plant a church. And I think that this there's biblical precedent for this, you know, Jesus taking time in the desert, or even the Apostle Paul, you know, in Galatians you read about the time that he spent in the desert. He said, you know, in in Galatians one fifteen, but when God set me apart, so he has this call to ministry, and then in verse 17, he says, I didn't go up to Jerusalem to see, you know, the apostles, but instead I went to Arabia, you know, before he, you know, and then he returned to Damascus, and then it says in verse 18, then after three years, then he goes up to Jerusalem.
Danny Parmelee:So there was this time in which even the apostle Paul had this, you know, kind of time of preparation. So for some of you listening, going to seminary may be the perfect next step, and if God is opening those doors in your life, and you're feeling that this will be a benefit for you and your ministry, then by all means, go. At the same time, I don't think that seminary is a requirement, and for some planters, it may not even be that beneficial for you. So think of in Acts four, or or in Acts three, when, you know, Peter and John, they they heal the lame beggar, and then in Acts chapter four, they're kind of brought before the Sanhedrin, and it says, when they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were, get this, unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. Now, again, of course, Peter and John, they hadn't been to seminary.
Danny Parmelee:They were unschooled. Granted, they hung out with Jesus for three years, and so that's gotta count for something. But you see in this text specifically that they were unschooled and ordinary. They didn't have that formal education. Now, I know that this verse can be taken as an excuse not to study, and and that's not how I would want to use this at all, and I'm against people using it in that sort of way, but at least it is kind of this this example of the absence of this kind of formal education, and yet because they were spending time with Jesus, they knew Jesus, they were used in a mighty way, and you know, through the power of the Holy Spirit, people were even recognizing and astonished at how much God was using them.
Danny Parmelee:So I want to insert here that study and preparation is important, but this can happen in different ways. I mean, I know of planters that have zero formal education, like a bible degree or seminary, And they have very They're very effective in ministry. They can handle God's word accurately. They're powerful preachers. And I also know planters and pastors who went to seminary, and they're ineffective in ministry, and they couldn't punch their way out of a theology paper bag.
Danny Parmelee:So when I discuss with planters that are considering bible school or seminary, I ask a few important questions, and maybe these are ones that you, if you're kind of wrestling with that question, that you can kind of think through yourself, or to have others help you to process through that, is first of all just asking, what is your learning style? This is really important, because there are some people who learn extremely well in a classroom environment. I would consider myself in this category. I learn well when there's a professor that's teaching, and I am forced to write papers and to take tests. This just works really well for me.
Danny Parmelee:Others don't learn well in this environment at all. They would learn better by listening to lectures, or reading books on their own, or others might learn much better in just this one on one discipleship process, where someone's gonna take you under their wing for a while, they're gonna, take you through scripture, they're gonna be teaching you different things. So just kind of asking that question of what is your learning style? And to just, you know, be objective on how you learn, and to think through how you actually learn. The second question I ask is, does school make sense for you right now?
Danny Parmelee:This has to do with debt and kind of your family life. I mean, if you're working fifty hours a week, and, you know, at a job and you have three young kids, and your thought is, I'm just gonna take some night classes so I can get this seminary degree. A, I would be kind of following up and saying, are you really going to get out of these classes what you're meant to if you're burning the midnight oil and just trying to cram things just to kind of get through this degree. And b, are you gonna sacrifice your family? I mean, if you're already, you know, spending that much time at work, how are you gonna do this?
Danny Parmelee:I mean, this is gonna be nights, weekends, you're just basically gonna be absent from your family for however however long it takes you, to get through this schooling, or you're gonna have to quit your job, maybe, or or do less of your job, and does this mean that you're gonna be taking on this debt that may actually hinder you from what God is calling you to do. So there's not a straight answer on this. Again, this is just kind of hoping to prompt some of those different questions for you to to walk walk through. And then number three, what are you really expecting to gain from going to bible school or seminary? In other words, or maybe asked in a different way, what is your motivation for this formal education?
Danny Parmelee:Because I think that there's some good reasons that you should consider seminary, like if if this is, again, your time of dedicated to in-depth learning, especially just in the areas of hermeneutics and theology, you wanna just really develop in that area, maybe for you, you do think this is your forced time of preparation, that this is gonna kind of, you know, create this kind of space or gap where you're having to kind of both, not only education, but heart things to pray through, or maybe it's continued education, so I know that some pastors and planters enter ministry before getting education, and they're in a couple years, and they're like, you know, I need to now continue my education, I need to sharpen my skills in Bible reading, or theology, or practical ministry skills as well. And so there's almost this forced accountability that happens. Those are some some good motivations, I think can be really good. There's also some bad reasons, for a church planter to consider going to seminary. The number one bad reason that I've heard or helped helped planters to process through is if you think a piece of paper will give you credibility or authority.
Danny Parmelee:While there is a certain element that maybe, you know, in some cases, this is important to kind of have that that degree, that that document on the wall, most of it is not true. You're going to gain the most credibility by how you live like Jesus and how you handle God's word, and then people will really listen to what you have to say. It's gonna give you a lot more of your credibility and your authority, much more than just a piece of paper hanging on the wall. And especially in church planting, the evangelistic edge, as you're, you know, meeting with people, their first question isn't, where did you go to seminary? I mean, they're just I don't ever remember being asked that question by a non believer.
Danny Parmelee:Yes, I was asked that question sometimes by Christians that were coming from another church, or someone who had some sort of agenda, but rarely are non believers asking that question, you know, where where you went to school and what type of degree that you got. Another bad motivation is that you hope to get paid more if you have a higher degree. So while in church planting, a seminary degree usually has almost no effect on your pay scale, I mean, at least in the beginning, but plus, if if you if you're already, you know, as been discussed, if you're already in debt, and you're taking on this huge debt, if, you know, the whole money equation, is just kind of a messed up one, or if, you know, you're you're trying to just plan out your ministry career based on how much money you're gonna make, I think you're just at a really bad, starting place. And then finally, another bad reason to consider doing, you know, bible school or seminary, is if you just have this need to prove something. So you wanna prove to people, whatever, that you're not dumb, or prove to people that you're smart, you just want those those those that degree on the wall or the letters or for people to, you know, call you a doctor or whatever.
Danny Parmelee:Maybe this is motivated by this voice, you know, in the back of your head, from a parent, or a teacher, or a coach, or worse yet, some youth pastor. Someone who said something to you that's just burning deep in your soul and you think, wait till they see me walk across that stage, or wait till they see that diploma that I have on the wall. I am telling you, it is not worth it for that reason. Do the hard work instead of forgiveness and solidifying your identity in Christ. It's not only gonna be cheaper, might even be faster, but most importantly, it's gonna be the most effective thing that you can do in ministry, is to avoid doing it for that wrong reason.
Danny Parmelee:So, does a church planter need to go to bible school or seminary? My answer is absolutely not. It is not a need, it is not a pre prerequisite or a requirement. Now, could or should a church planter consider it before or even during a plan? Yes, for many planters, formal education could be this huge part of their development or even continued development.
Danny Parmelee:Here's why coaches and mentors are just so important in your life, is that they can help you to sort out the whys. Because for each person, this answer is going to be different, based on some of those different contextual things that we are kind of walking through already. So those of you that are listening and considering, if you should take the plunge, either before or while you're in the plant, start digging around, asking those questions, invite other mentors or coaches in your life to help you kind of walk through some of those different things, and maybe it's even just a matter of timing. Maybe it's not now, maybe it's later, or maybe the timing is no, now is the best time to do it. Do this now to prepare you before you go out.
Danny Parmelee:So I hope that this has been helpful for you, And remember, if you have a question about church planting, you can head over to the blog, churchplantersask.com. You can leave us a message there, or on Facebook, or on Instagram, Or like Ricky did, you can send in your audio or video. And until next time, keep asking those questions.