MedEd Deep Dive

In this episode, we explore how Virtual Patients (VPs) are transforming online medical education, especially in the context of Massive Open Online Courses (MOOCs). Hosts Zaynab and Yassin dive into a fascinating study that examines learner engagement with different VP designs—one offering a "choose-your-own-adventure" approach and another providing a more structured, linear experience. The results were surprising: learners engaged more and dropped out less in the more structured VP environments.
Join us as we unpack the reasons behind high dropout rates in MOOCs, the importance of designing learner-centered virtual patient experiences, and the potential of adaptive learning technologies to create personalized education paths. Whether you're an educator, student, or simply interested in the future of online learning, this episode offers valuable insights into making e-learning more effective and accessible.

Link to the publication: https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7102/8/2/44

What is MedEd Deep Dive?

MedEd DeepDive: Where Innovation Meets Education

Whether you're a student navigating the complexities of medical school, an educator striving to improve learning outcomes, a researcher pushing the boundaries of knowledge, or a policymaker shaping the future of medical education—this podcast is for you.

In Season 1 of MedEd DeepDive, we explore the cutting-edge innovations transforming how we teach and learn. From the use of AI and chatbots to combat vaccine misinformation to the game-changing potential of virtual simulations and the metaverse in medical training, our episodes dive into the latest research and real-world applications. We'll also discuss innovative tools like serious games, escape rooms, and virtual patients that make learning more immersive and effective.

Join us as we examine the technological advancements and essential human elements of healthcare education, highlighting how strategies like interprofessional education, team-based learning, and even traditional methods like moulage can create a more holistic and impactful approach.

Subscribe now to stay ahead of the curve and participate in the conversation shaping the future of healthcare education.

Yassin:

Welcome back, everybody. Today, we're taking a deep dive into something pretty fascinating.

Zaynab:

Yeah. It's all about online learning.

Yassin:

And specifically, how these virtual patients you might have heard of. Mhmm. They're changing the game when it comes to medical education.

Zaynab:

Definitely. They're really shaking things up. I mean, simulations are giving these future doctors a safe space to practice

Yassin:

Oh, absolutely.

Zaynab:

You know, before they're anywhere near real patients.

Yassin:

It's like that difference between have you ever, like, read a book about something?

Zaynab:

Yeah. Yeah.

Yassin:

Read a book about swimming

Zaynab:

Yeah.

Yassin:

And then actually jumping in the pool?

Zaynab:

Exactly.

Yassin:

It's that hands on.

Zaynab:

Yeah.

Yassin:

It's that real world experience.

Zaynab:

Huge difference.

Yassin:

And what's so cool is how this all ties back to MOOCs. Yeah. Those massive open online courses

Zaynab:

Right.

Yassin:

Which have just exploded in popularity because it's global. Anyone can learn. Mhmm. And we're seeing more and more of these virtual patients being integrated into MOOCs.

Zaynab:

Yeah. And that's actually what we're looking at today. We have a study Okay. That was done, published in Education Sciences.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

And they were looking at virtual patients

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

In a MOOC environment.

Yassin:

Gotcha. So very

Zaynab:

Specifically looking at bladder cancer.

Yassin:

Oh, wow. Okay. So bladder cancer, virtual patients, online learners, what exactly were they trying to find out?

Zaynab:

So they were interested in seeing how people learn best in this kind of open online setting

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

And, importantly, how the design of that virtual patient impacts that learning.

Yassin:

Oh, interesting. Okay.

Zaynab:

So do people learn better when you give them more choices, or does a more structured approach lead to better outcomes?

Yassin:

Well, that is a good question.

Zaynab:

Right.

Yassin:

So how did they design these virtual patient versions?

Zaynab:

So the first version they did was very choose your own adventure kind of experience

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

Where learners had multiple paths they could take.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

And they got to decide at each step what information to gather Uh-huh. What tests to order.

Yassin:

Oh, I like that.

Zaynab:

Right. So you feel very much in charge of the diagnosis.

Yassin:

You're really engaging.

Zaynab:

Exactly. But the researchers wondered if all this freedom might actually be overwhelming

Yassin:

Right.

Zaynab:

To some learners.

Yassin:

Especially if it's something

Zaynab:

Especially those who are new to this type of medical case.

Yassin:

Right. They've never seen this before.

Zaynab:

Exactly. So they created a second version that was much more linear.

Yassin:

Okay. So this one's more like a guided tour.

Zaynab:

Exactly.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

So learners would get, like, a multiple choice question at each step. Mhmm. They'd get immediate feedback on their answer, and then they would move to the next step.

Yassin:

Gotcha. So less freedom, but maybe a little more supportive for someone who is just

Zaynab:

Yeah.

Yassin:

Getting their feet wet.

Zaynab:

Exactly.

Yassin:

Okay. So what'd they find? So Did one design lead to people being more engaged? Did they learn more from 1 versus the other?

Zaynab:

Well, this is where it gets really interesting.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

They had 378 learners

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

Participate in the study. Wow. And each learner was randomly assigned to one of the 2 virtual patient designs.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

And the results were a bit surprising. Oh,

Yassin:

okay. Alright. You can't leave me hanging like that. I know. I know.

Yassin:

What did they find?

Zaynab:

We'll get to that.

Yassin:

Okay. So last we left off, you're about to tell us what they found when they had these hundreds of learners try out these 2 different virtual patient designs.

Zaynab:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yassin:

1 where you could kinda choose your own adventure and the other one that was more straightforward. Right. Right. Exactly. So 378 learners.

Yassin:

I mean, that's a pretty That's

Zaynab:

a good amount.

Yassin:

Yeah. That's a good sample size.

Zaynab:

Yeah. So, you would think, right

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

That the choose your own adventure one

Yassin:

Yeah. More engaging?

Zaynab:

Could lead to more engagement, maybe even better learning.

Yassin:

Yeah. It's intuitive. Right? Yeah. Give people more freedom.

Yassin:

They're gonna be more into it.

Zaynab:

That's what you would think. Yeah. But that's not what they found.

Yassin:

Oh, really?

Zaynab:

Yeah. It was actually kinda counterintuitive.

Yassin:

Like

Zaynab:

The more open ended design

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

Actually led to a higher dropout rate.

Yassin:

Oh, wow. So more people bailed on the one Yeah. And they had more freedom. Exactly. Interesting.

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

More freedom, more choices, more people dropping out.

Yassin:

So why is that? That seems so counterintuitive.

Zaynab:

Right. You'd think if it's more engaging, they would stick with it.

Yassin:

You would think. Yeah.

Zaynab:

But it seems like maybe it was just too much.

Yassin:

Okay. So too much freedom was overwhelming.

Zaynab:

Yeah. And that's actually a thing. You know? Cognitive overload.

Yassin:

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Zaynab:

Imagine you're a learner. Right?

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

And maybe you're totally new to this whole bladder cancer diagnosis. Yeah. And suddenly, you're thrown into this complex medical case. You've got all this information.

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

All these different paths you could take.

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

It'd be easy to just feel completely overwhelmed.

Yassin:

Totally. And I think that's a really good point because like you said, it depends on the learner. Exactly. Because some learners might love that.

Zaynab:

Right. Some people thrive in that kind of environment.

Yassin:

Probably in the deep end, they'll figure it out.

Zaynab:

Exactly. But others need a little bit more.

Yassin:

More structure.

Zaynab:

Yeah.

Yassin:

Yeah. Yeah. More guidance.

Zaynab:

Okay.

Yassin:

And that's where that linear approach might actually be more beneficial.

Zaynab:

Right. Okay.

Yassin:

Because instead of feeling overwhelmed by choices

Zaynab:

Yeah.

Yassin:

You're guided through the case with clear steps.

Zaynab:

Uh-huh.

Yassin:

You get feedback along the way so you know if you're on the right track.

Zaynab:

It's like you're building confidence as you go.

Yassin:

Exactly. You got it.

Zaynab:

Instead of just being completely lost in the weeds and then you just say, forget it. I'm out.

Yassin:

Exactly. And, you know, MOOCs, they attract such a diverse group of learners.

Zaynab:

Oh, absolutely.

Yassin:

So what works for one person might not work for another.

Zaynab:

Different backgrounds, different learning styles. It makes sense.

Yassin:

Exactly.

Zaynab:

So are we saying that we need to kinda tailor the experience a little bit more than just a one size fits all approach? Yeah. It's really pointing to that idea of learner centered design.

Yassin:

Learner centered design. Yeah. We hear that a lot, but what does that actually look like

Zaynab:

Right.

Yassin:

In practice?

Zaynab:

Well, it's about recognizing that every learner is different.

Yassin:

Mhmm.

Zaynab:

You can't just approach them as if they're all starting at the same point.

Yassin:

Right. They got different backgrounds, different needs.

Zaynab:

Exactly. Their past experiences, even just what motivates them Right. They're all gonna be different.

Yassin:

Okay. So how do we design these online learning tools, these virtual patient experiences with that in mind?

Zaynab:

That's where things get really interesting Okay. Because this research is pointing to adaptive learning technologies.

Yassin:

Okay. So is that, like, where the virtual patient can actually adjust to how I'm doing as a learner?

Zaynab:

Exactly.

Yassin:

Woah. Okay.

Zaynab:

Like, imagine a virtual patient that can tell if you're breezing through the diagnosis.

Yassin:

Yeah. Oh.

Zaynab:

And it might throw in some curve balls to make it a little more challenging.

Yassin:

Oh, that's cool.

Zaynab:

Right? But then if you're really struggling

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

It can provide more support.

Yassin:

So it's like having a personalized tutor.

Zaynab:

Exactly.

Yassin:

That's really cool.

Zaynab:

It's amazing. Like, it can recognize when a learner is hitting a wall

Yassin:

Okay.

Zaynab:

And offer hints or maybe just adjust how the information's presented.

Yassin:

Wow. That could really be a game changer.

Zaynab:

Oh, absolutely.

Yassin:

Especially in something like medicine where it's really important to get it right. Yeah. The stakes are high.

Zaynab:

Yeah. Are we just talking about medical education here? No. Not at

Yassin:

all. Or could this apply to other things

Zaynab:

too? I mean, this study

Yassin:

looked at bladder cancer, but think about it.

Zaynab:

Okay. The potential is huge.

Yassin:

Yeah.

Zaynab:

Law engineering, even the arts.

Yassin:

Wow.

Zaynab:

Anything you can simulate.

Yassin:

It's really cool to see how technology can personalize those learning experiences and make them better for everyone.

Zaynab:

Definitely makes you wonder what's next.

Yassin:

It really does. Well, this has been a fascinating deep dive

Zaynab:

It has.

Yassin:

Into the world of online learning and virtual patients.

Zaynab:

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Yassin:

And for anyone listening who's about to start their own online learning journey, maybe don't be afraid to start with a little structure or some guidance.

Zaynab:

Yeah. You

Yassin:

don't have to jump straight into the deep end.

Zaynab:

Sometimes a little support can make all the difference.

Yassin:

Exactly. Alright. Thanks for joining us, everyone.